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Hip-hop

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nip hop??

never heard that one .. sure this isnt just a local thing?

Is Jungle DJ Towa Towa (Towa Tei) a nip hop artist?

Stub

An interesting article discussing the origins of Japanese hip hop, particularly the aspects most closely related to rap, to foreign hip hop, to specific rappers and clubs at which the movement originated. But most Japanese hip hop today has little direct connection to that. This article would benefit greatly from a discussion of the diversity and breadth of the genre, and a list (not too out of control) of some of the more major hip hop artists in Japan. LordAmeth (talk) 06:34, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

what is this POV BS?

"Initially language was a barrier for hip-hop in Japan. Rappers initially only rapped in English because it was believed that the differences between English and Japanese would make it impossible to rap in Japanese. Unlike English, the Japanese language ends phrases in auxiliary verbs. Whereas English ends in verbs or nouns, which are extremely common, Japanese rappers were limited by the small number of grammatically correct possibilities for ending a phrase. Japanese also lacks the stresses on certain syllables that provide flow to English rapping."

Biggest load of bunk. No references nor sources cited. Anyone who's studied Japanese long enough will know that despite any grammatical rules, as in any other language, these rules are BROKEN. CONSTANTLY. Who wrote this absolute fiction? The last sentence is so laughably nonsensical and fictitious it's almost not worth my time pointing this out to the sadly uninformed miscreant who copied and pasted this.

"Japanese was also a traditionally polite language" - more POV, Eurocentric pap. It's entirely Western and arrogant to label Japanese as traditionally being 'polite'. Anyone who's read enough will be able to realize that it goes beyond 'polite'.

The section under Language needs to be either entirely scrapped or rewritten with sources. It's so poorly researched and presented it's laughable. What garbage.

Yes, it's laughable and terrible but please don't label anything racist/stereotypical as "Eurocentric" and "Western". Lots of people believe in thousands of stereotypes about other people, don't assign it to one group. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.97.212.88 (talk) 18:38, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A portion of this article seems to be copied and pasted right from Ian Condry's web site. Overall, the style is inconsistent and at times ungrammatical and filled with misspellings, and the article is extremely repetitive. It doesn't cover contemporary hip-hop in any substantial way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.206.58.110 (talk) 13:19, 5 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

wow what a shit article, the diatribe on the effects of globalisation re: cultural exchanges was particularly difficult to read

This article is written EXTREMELY badly, I am currently working on a total re-write.--Sean-Jin (talk) 23:48, 23 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I agree with what has been said. This article looks good if you don't read it because of the lengthy paragraphs; however, when you get into it, it's a mess. It more closely resembles a high school student's music essay, instead of a typical Wikipedia article. ★Dasani★ 03:02, 7 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There are many areas in this article that require clarification of focus and a sharpening of thought. Just to pick on one that particularly stuck in my craw:

'Rather than identifying strongly with a color, Japanese tradition speaks to a homogeneous society that places foreigners in the "other category." Because of this context, "jiggers" and the young teens who wear blackface rebel by embracing individual identities that are different from the norm.'

Where to start with this?! OK, just dive in:

1) Japanese have been extremely conscious of skin color for at least a thousand years. However, this has more typically been equated with class difference than with racial type. White skin is associated with the cultivated nobility (who didn't have to labor in the fields), dark skin with uneducated laborers. In premodern art and literature, dark skin is a conventional sign of wildness, a lack of decorum, self-control and sophistication. There is absolutely a native-grown prejudice against darker skinned people in Japan. These attitudes have carried over into modern and contemporary times and only been further supported by western racist attitudes.

2) What Japanese tradition (sic) is it that 'speaks to a homogeneous society that places foreigners in the "other category"'? This is ahistorical bunk. Before the mid-19th century, people from different parts of feudal Japan were foreign to one another and treated one another as "others." There was no notion of national unity. The 'tradition' you describe is a modern construct, and the contemporary construct Japan has been building over the last decade is just the opposite of homogeneity, emphasizing Japan as a place of multi-culturalism. Moreover, what national culture doesn't place foreigners in the 'other category'?? You need to qualify how this is different in Japan.

3) Are the authors/editors of this page really blind to the glaring internal contradiction in these two sentences?? First, it is stated that there is no 'color' identification in Japan as a central component of identity construction, then that blackface is a way to rebel as "different from the norm." Huh?? Which is it? If there is no strong color identification (which is obviously not accurate) then how could blackface be meaningful?

4) And just what is it about standardized dress and makeup that constitutes an "individual identity" anyway? Don't you mean a rebellious identity? There's no individualism in ritually standardized, mostly appropriated customs.

Maybe, instead of trying so hard to shape Japanese hip-hop as a special culture worthy of our interest and respect for its own internal merits, you need to look at the larger context and examine Japanese hip-hop from the outside, as a selective cultural appropriation of American hip-hop culture, which catches some of its spirit, but also harps cloyingly on its superficial aspects, devoid of their original, motivating contexts, as a means to some sort of authenticity beyond the type accepted in Japan, buoyed up by a romanticized vision of America and its culture. I myself do believe that Japanese hip-hop is significant. Just not for the reasons that this article tries so hard to profess. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.253.220.232 (talk) 15:41, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Most of the people commenting on this article can do nothing but "examine Japanese hip-hop from the outside" since it's a fair guess to say most are not Japanese. Most of the criticisms that begin with Japanese hip-hop as a cultural appropriation of American hip-hop culture have already missed the mark. Japanese hip-hop is trying to place itself inside hip-hop culture itself, not "American" hip-hop. Hip-hop culture is and always will be antagonistic to mainstream American culture. That which has been appropriated by Wall Street was not what birthed hip-hop in other parts of the world. That hip-hop culture was appropriated by other corporate interests.

Also, the author or authors seem to be confusing even themselves about "blackface" and modes of dress among Japanese sub-cultures. They are citing articles by people who were already misinformed or had distinct biases and points of view. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.166.10.176 (talk) 05:52, 19 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Plagiarism.

Many of the sentences in this article are directly lifted from Ian Condry's book Hip Hop Japan. These sentences are neither quoted nor cited. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.50.231.162 (talk) 04:08, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Choice of artists to highlight under "notable"

I am wondering what criteria are being used for selecting "notable" hip-hop artists. For one thing, Hime may have been written about in Ian Condry's book, but I have never met an artist nor a fan who find her "influential." Her lyrics are interesting, but she doesn't really seem to have caught on. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.44.104.32 (talk) 03:17, 4 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Move discussion in progress

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@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
+{{Talk header}}
-{{WikiProject hip hop|class=stub|importance=}}
+{{WikiProject banner shell|class=B|1=
-{{WPJ|tf=Music|class=Stub}}
+{{WikiProject Hip hop|importance=}}
+{{WikiProject Japan|importance=High|music=yes}}
+{{WikiProject Music/Music genres task force}}
+}}
+==nip hop?? ==
-+rappeurs francais cherche rappeurs japonnais  contact  59 CLAN -110/95 RUE DE LA CROIX ROUGE 59200 TOURCOING ( FRANCE°)
+never heard that one .. sure this isnt just a local thing?
-nip hop?? never heard that one .. sure this isnt just a local thing?
 Is Jungle DJ Towa Towa (Towa Tei) a nip hop artist?
@@ Line 11: / Line 14: @@
 An interesting article discussing the origins of Japanese hip hop, particularly the aspects most closely related to rap, to foreign hip hop, to specific rappers and clubs at which the movement originated. But most Japanese hip hop today has little direct connection to that. This article would benefit greatly from a discussion of the diversity and breadth of the genre, and a list (not too out of control) of some of the more major hip hop artists in Japan. [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] ([[User talk:LordAmeth|talk]]) 06:34, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
+== what is this POV BS? ==
+"Initially language was a barrier for hip-hop in Japan. Rappers initially only rapped in English because it was believed that the differences between English and Japanese would make it impossible to rap in Japanese. Unlike English, the Japanese language ends phrases in auxiliary verbs. Whereas English ends in verbs or nouns, which are extremely common, Japanese rappers were limited by the small number of grammatically correct possibilities for ending a phrase. Japanese also lacks the stresses on certain syllables that provide flow to English rapping."
+Biggest load of bunk. No references nor sources cited. Anyone who's studied Japanese long enough will know that despite any grammatical rules, as in any other language, these rules are BROKEN. CONSTANTLY. Who wrote this absolute fiction? The last sentence is so laughably nonsensical and fictitious it's almost not worth my time pointing this out to the sadly uninformed miscreant who copied and pasted this.
+"Japanese was also a traditionally polite language" - more POV, Eurocentric pap. It's entirely Western and arrogant to label Japanese as traditionally being 'polite'. Anyone who's read enough will be able to realize that it goes beyond 'polite'.
+The section under Language needs to be either entirely scrapped or rewritten with sources. It's so poorly researched and presented it's laughable. What garbage.
+:: Yes, it's laughable and terrible but please don't label anything racist/stereotypical as "Eurocentric" and "Western". Lots of people believe in thousands of stereotypes about other people, don't assign it to one group.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/129.97.212.88|129.97.212.88]] ([[User talk:129.97.212.88|talk]]) 18:38, 18 July 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
+-----
 A portion of this article seems to be copied and pasted right from Ian Condry's web site.  Overall, the style is inconsistent and at times ungrammatical and filled with misspellings, and the article is extremely repetitive.  It doesn't cover contemporary hip-hop in any substantial way.  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/219.206.58.110|219.206.58.110]] ([[User talk:219.206.58.110|talk]]) 13:19, 5 May 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
 wow what a shit article, the diatribe on the effects of globalisation re: cultural exchanges was particularly difficult to read
+This article is written EXTREMELY badly, I am currently working on a total re-write.--[[User:Sean-Jin|Sean-Jin]] ([[User talk:Sean-Jin|talk]]) 23:48, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
+::Yes, I agree with what has been said. This article looks good if you don't read it because of the lengthy paragraphs; however, when you get into it, it's a mess. It more closely resembles a high school student's music essay, instead of a typical Wikipedia article. <span style="color:#fe2c96;">★</span>[[User:Dasani|<b style="color:#ba6afd;">Dasani</b>]]<span style="color:#fe2c96;">★</span> 03:02, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
+There are many areas in this article that require clarification of focus and a sharpening of thought.  Just to pick on one that particularly stuck in my craw:
+'Rather than identifying strongly with a color, Japanese tradition speaks to a homogeneous society that places foreigners in the "other category." Because of this context, "jiggers" and the young teens who wear blackface rebel by embracing individual identities that are different from the norm.'
+Where to start with this?!  OK, just dive in:
+) Japanese have been extremely conscious of skin color for at least a thousand years.  However, this has more typically been equated with class difference than with racial type.  White skin is associated with the cultivated nobility (who didn't have to labor in the fields), dark skin with uneducated laborers.  In premodern art and literature, dark skin is a conventional sign of wildness, a lack of decorum, self-control and sophistication.  There is absolutely a native-grown prejudice against darker skinned people in Japan.  These attitudes have carried over into modern and contemporary times and only been further supported by western racist attitudes.
+) What Japanese tradition (sic) is it that 'speaks to a homogeneous society that places foreigners in the "other category"'?  This is ahistorical bunk.  Before the mid-19th century, people from different parts of feudal Japan were foreign to one another and treated one another as "others."  There was no notion of national unity.  The 'tradition' you describe is a modern construct, and the contemporary construct Japan has been building over the last decade is just the opposite of homogeneity, emphasizing Japan as a place of multi-culturalism.  Moreover, what national culture doesn't place foreigners in the 'other category'??  You need to qualify how this is different in Japan.
+) Are the authors/editors of this page really blind to the glaring internal contradiction in these two sentences??  First, it is stated that there is no 'color' identification in Japan as a central component of identity construction, then that blackface is a way to rebel as "different from the norm."  Huh??  Which is it?  If there is no strong color identification (which is obviously not accurate) then how could blackface be meaningful?
+) And just what is it about standardized dress and makeup that constitutes an "individual identity" anyway?  Don't you mean a rebellious identity?  There's no individualism in ritually standardized, mostly appropriated customs.
+Maybe, instead of trying so hard to shape Japanese hip-hop as a special culture worthy of our interest and respect for its own internal merits, you need to look at the larger context and examine Japanese hip-hop from the outside, as a selective cultural appropriation of American hip-hop culture, which catches some of its spirit, but also harps cloyingly on its superficial aspects, devoid of their original, motivating contexts, as a means to some sort of authenticity beyond the type accepted in Japan, buoyed up by a romanticized vision of America and its culture.  I myself do believe that Japanese hip-hop is significant.  Just not for the reasons that this article tries so hard to profess.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/128.253.220.232|128.253.220.232]] ([[User talk:128.253.220.232|talk]]) 15:41, 30 September 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
+Most of the people commenting on this article can do nothing but "examine Japanese hip-hop from the outside" since it's a fair guess to say most are not Japanese. Most of the criticisms that begin with Japanese hip-hop as a cultural appropriation of American hip-hop culture have already missed the mark. Japanese hip-hop is trying to place itself inside hip-hop culture itself, not "American" hip-hop. Hip-hop culture is and always will be antagonistic to mainstream American culture. That which has been appropriated by Wall Street was not what birthed hip-hop in other parts of the world. That hip-hop culture was appropriated by other corporate interests.
+Also, the author or authors seem to be confusing even themselves about "blackface" and modes of dress among Japanese sub-cultures. They are citing articles by people who were already misinformed or had distinct biases and points of view.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/216.166.10.176|216.166.10.176]] ([[User talk:216.166.10.176|talk]]) 05:52, 19 March 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
+== Plagiarism. ==
+Many of the sentences in this article are directly lifted from Ian Condry's book Hip Hop Japan.  These sentences are neither quoted nor cited.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/99.50.231.162|99.50.231.162]] ([[User talk:99.50.231.162|talk]]) 04:08, 9 December 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
+== Choice of artists to highlight under "notable" ==
+I am wondering what criteria are being used for selecting "notable" hip-hop artists. For one thing, Hime may have been written about in Ian Condry's book, but I have never met an artist nor a fan who find her "influential." Her lyrics are interesting, but she doesn't really seem to have caught on.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/68.44.104.32|68.44.104.32]] ([[User talk:68.44.104.32|talk]]) 03:17, 4 February 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
+== External links modified ==
+Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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+*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20150429034752/http://www.msu.edu/~okumurak/japan/history.html to http://www.msu.edu/~okumurak/japan/history.html
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+== External links modified ==
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+*Corrected formatting/usage for https://moodle.brandeis.edu/file.php/3404/pdfs/wood-yellow-negro.pdf
+*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080719234844/http://japan4music.com/ to http://japan4music.com/
+When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
+{{sourcecheck|checked=false|needhelp=}}
+Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 11:47, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
+== External links modified ==
+Hello fellow Wikipedians,
+I have just modified 2 external links on [[Japanese hip hop]]. Please take a moment to review [[special:diff/811554463|my edit]]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:
+*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090505172518/http://ssjj.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/jyn006v1 to http://ssjj.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/jyn006v1
+*Added {{tlx|dead link}} tag to http://asia.kyushu-u.ac.jp/home/ajiarikai/kiroku/18/1/gaiyou1.pdf
+*Added archive http://webarchive.loc.gov/all/20140815172854/http%3A//ocw.mit.edu/courses/foreign%2Dlanguages%2Dand%2Dliteratures/21f%2D067j%2Dcultural%2Dperformances%2Dof%2Dasia%2Dfall%2D2005/lecture%2Dnotes/l6_jhh_911_fin.pdf to http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/foreign-languages-and-literatures/21f-067j-cultural-performances-of-asia-fall-2005/lecture-notes/l6_jhh_911_fin.pdf
+When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
+{{sourcecheck|checked=false|needhelp=}}
+Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 10:49, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
+== Move discussion in progress ==
+There is a move discussion in progress on [[Talk:Hip-hop#Requested move 2 December 2024|Talk:Hip-hop]] which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. <!-- Talk:Hip-hop#Requested move 2 December 2024 crosspost --> —[[User:RMCD bot|RMCD bot]] 10:05, 2 December 2024 (UTC)