Talk:Michael Jackson: Difference between revisions
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|maindate=June 25, 2010 |
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{{Afd-merged-from|Michael Jackson's religion|Michael Jackson's religion (2nd nomination)|16 November 2009}} |
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|author=[[Declan McCullagh|McCullagh, Declan]] |date=June 25, 2009 |url= http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-10273277-93.html |title=Michael Jackson's death roils Wikipedia |org=''[[CNET Networks]]'' |
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{{Spoken Wikipedia request|— [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''Realist'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]]|Is a featured article so content should stay stable for the foreseeable future. Is also a high traffic article. I've spoken to a few people about it and most seem to agree that a female voice would be best suited but we ain't too bothered about that. }} |
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|author2=Rawlinson, Linnie |date2=June 25, 2009 |url2= http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/06/26/michael.jackson.internet/index.html |title2=Jackson dies, almost takes Internet with him |org2=''[[CNN]]'' |
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== Hollywood Walk of Fame Picture == |
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|author3=Boyd, E.B. |date3=June 27, 2009 |url3= http://web.archive.org/web/20090629065332/http://www.mediabistro.com/baynewser/wikipedia/wikipedia_tech_team_learns_about_king_of_pops_death_when_their_servers_crash_120046.asp |title3=Wikipedia Tech Team Learns About King of Pop, Rock, and Soul Death When Their Servers Crash |org3=''[[Mediabistro.com]]'' |
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In the book "Michael Jackson: The King of Pop" (http://books.google.com/books?id=BVC9zltjf-EC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ViewAPI#PPP1,M1 pg 104)it claims that Michael Jackson's star on the Walk of Fame is registered as "Michael J. Jackson" because another radio broadcaster named Michael Jackson was already there, and you can't have the same name twice. The picture on the wikipedia page just says "Michael Jackson" so I think it might actually be the radio broadcaster's. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/140.180.137.136|140.180.137.136]] ([[User talk:140.180.137.136|talk]]) 18:53, 17 November 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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|author4=Shiels, Maggie |date4=June 28, 2009 |url4= http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8120324.stm |title4=Web slows after Jackson's death |org4=''[[BBC News]]'' |
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== Vandalism again == |
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|author5=Cohen, Noam |date5=June 26, 2009 |url5= http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06//with-jackson-entry-wikipedia-may-have-set-a-record/ |title5=With Jackson Entry, Wikipedia May Have Set a Record |org5=''[[The New York Times]]'' |
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I have reverted some vandalism to the page- I don't know how to report vandalism. Can you take care of that Realist? Thanks. [[User:Marnifrances|Marnifrances]] ([[User talk:Marnifrances|talk]]) 11:15, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:I gave him a warning, if he doesn't stop vandalizing wikipedia he will be blocked. — [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''Realist'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]] 11:27, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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|author6=Cohen, Noam |date6=July 19, 2009 |url6= http://nytimes.com/2009/07/20/arts/20funny.html |title6=Wikipedia May Be a Font of Facts, but It’s a Desert for Photos |org6=''[[The New York Times]]'' |
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== Worlds Most Famous Person/ Most reconised face == |
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|date7=August 17, 2009 |url7= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/wikipedia/6043534/The-50-most-viewed-Wikipedia-articles-in-2009-and-2008.html |title7=The 50 most-viewed Wikipedia articles in 2009 and 2008 |org7=''[[The Daily Telegraph]]'' |author7=(none) |
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Here are some sites that claim that heading, realist 2 have a look through them maybe you will add some of these if you find them reliable. |
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|date8=October 12, 2012 |url8= http://www.metro.co.uk/news/newsfocus/914761-edits-on-winehouse-skrillex-and-wile-e-coyote-the-role-of-a-wikipedian#ixzz296Ks68 |title8=Edits on Winehouse, Skrillex and Wile E Coyote: The role of a Wikipedian |org8=''Metro'' |
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http://famous--people.blogspot.com/ |
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|date9=June 11, 2014 |url9=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2014/06/11/the-most-influential-person-on-wikipedia-is-someone-youve-probably-never-heard-of/ |title9=The most influential person on Wikipedia is someone you’ve probably never heard of |org9= ''[[Washington Post]]'' |
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I will try adding more. |
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:Oh, "blogspot" is a big giveaway, we don't regard blogs as reliable sources, to the extent that there is a bot that will reject additions of sites containing "blogspot" into articles; please feel free to find something more reliable. [[WP:RS|this page]] sets out broadly what is acceptable. --[[User:Rodhullandemu|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0000FF">Rodhull</span>]][[User_talk:Rodhullandemu|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#FF0000">andemu</span>]] 03:48, 19 October 2008 (UTC) |
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== Alleged anti-semitism recording text == |
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''In 2005, Jackson attracted attention from the [[Anti-Defamation League]] after it was discovered he had recently referred to Jews as "leeches" and their actions as "a conspiracy".'' [http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASUS_12/4831_12.htm] [http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article595386.ece] |
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{{Annual report|[[Wikipedia:2009 Top 50 Report|2009]], [[Wikipedia:2010 Top 50 Report|2010]], and [[Wikipedia:2011 Top 50 Report|2011]]}} |
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:I'm removing this huge BLP issue until I or someone can correctly source Jackson's defense to these strong allegations. Since he disputes that this recording is legitimate etc. — [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''Realist'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]] 16:56, 20 October 2008 (UTC) |
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{{Top 25 Report|Apr 17 2016|Aug 26 2018|Mar 3 2019|Mar 10 2019}} |
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::It would also seem to be a little over-egging the pudding since both references appear to derive from the same source; a reliable third-party source without an axe to grind would be required to substantiate this. --[[User:Rodhullandemu|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0000FF">Rodhull</span>]][[User_talk:Rodhullandemu|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#FF0000">andemu</span>]] 18:17, 20 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:::Indeed, this is something that needs to be dealt with delicately, we cannot simply accuse one of the most recognized figures of anti-Semitic without really good sources. This essentially goes against the image and philosophy Jackson has promoted for decades. None of the sources can prove or state that it is 100% a genuine recording, with a figure like Jackson people are quick to believe anything. Tapes are manipulated quite easily anyway. This was a tape that someone leaked to the press, possibly an ex employ of Jackson, in return for money no doubt. We know all too well how low ex Jackson employes are prepared to go for a quick buck. This was also just after the trial, when he was at his weakest physically and emotionally, more than likely unprepared or uninterested in defending himself at that point. — [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''Realist'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]] 19:05, 20 October 2008 (UTC) |
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== Semi protect talk page? == |
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Should this talk page be semi protected? It has been in the past. Looking at the history of the talk page vandalism far out ways and legitimate dialogue on the article content itself. Since the article ''is'' featured there technically isn't/shouldn't be much to discuss. Until something important happens in his life, say for example a new album or a new allegation, this article should stay rather stagnant. Thus would it be appropriate to semi protect the talk page until something of importance develops in his life that needs actual discussion? — [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''Realist'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]] 12:02, 23 October 2008 (UTC) |
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== Image == |
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Should the image right when someone clicks on the page really be from 1984? I mean, he's not dead or anything, he's still alive and making music, so naturally there must be a picture from at least 2000. [[User:Tezkag72|Tezkag72]] ([[User talk:Tezkag72|talk]]) 01:44, 31 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:I've always wanted to change it, really, I don't like the 1984 image and always wanted a dangerous era (1991-1993) image (it was the height of his international fame). However we can only use free images in the infobox (you probably know that already). The other free image we have is from 1988 but everyone hates that image. Then the only other free image we have is the statue, but the haters will strongly oppose that. This all said, if the tabloids are correct (not that I believe a word they say), Jackson will be releasing music and touring in the near future. We must wait and pray that we can get some images. — [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''Realist'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]] 20:28, 31 October 2008 (UTC) |
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Is Known for his Awkward noises he is able to produce <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/65.2.212.12|65.2.212.12]] ([[User talk:65.2.212.12|talk]]) 20:06, 3 November 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:The vocal hiccup is mentioned in the article, as is "shamone". I haven't been able to find [[WP:RS|RELIABLE SOURCES]] for his beatboxing and talk/rapping yet. Recent album reviews of Jackson's work are shit, since they are dominated by a review of his personal life not the music in question. This has been a persistent problem since ''[[HIStory]]'' but I noticed instances of it as early as [[Dangerous (album)]]. It might be better to get music reviews from non English sources instead. — [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''Realist'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]] 23:50, 3 November 2008 (UTC) |
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:: You couldn't use the Oprah interview, The Diane Sawyer interview and their transcripts as reliable sources for beatboxing? He clearly demonstrates it in those 2 interviews. [[User:Marnifrances|Marnifrances]] ([[User talk:Marnifrances|talk]]) 03:51, 18 November 2008 (UTC) |
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:::I could use the transcripts yes, but it would have to be the original transcripts, not those found on fan sites. Otherwise it's a copyright violation for a start. If we can find original transcripts those would defo be ok. — [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''Realist'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]] 11:15, 18 November 2008 (UTC) |
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It’s examples like this that really underline how ridiculous the policy of using free media over fair use media is. Yeah, let’s take a crummy and wholly inappropriate free image just because it’s free. Jesus. — <em>[[User:NRen2k5|NRen2k5]]</em><sup>([[User_talk:NRen2k5|TALK]])</sup>, 12:29, 7 November 2008 (UTC) |
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== Michael Jackson O2 arena World Tour == |
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Its rumored that Michael Jackson will have a World Tour being March 2009, including 10 shows at the O2 arena expected sell out all of them, here is the site that is selling the tickets. Just wanted to infrom you guys of this.--[[User:Rafichamp|rafichamp]] ([[User talk:Rafichamp|talk]]) 20:51, 6 November 2008 (UTC) |
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http://www.viewlondon.co.uk/whatson/michael-jackson-tickets-article-7095.html |
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:"Claims to be selling the tickets IF it happens". [[WP:CRYSTAL|Policy]] here is that we wait for an official announcement from a [[WP:RS|reliable source]] rather than rely on rumours, but thanks for pointing it out. --[[User:Rodhullandemu|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0000FF">Rodhull</span>]][[User_talk:Rodhullandemu|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#FF0000">andemu</span>]] 20:54, 6 November 2008 (UTC) |
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::It won't happen, not even if [[Jermaine]] says it will. Until we see MJ on that stage or that new studio album in a huge van on the way to the shop's it doesn't get mentioned. Why are us MJ fans so easily fooled? STOP listening the the press! They make up shit so that when it doesn't happen we feel let down. They make up stories so that when it doesn't happen they can make fun of MJ. When are people going to realize this. — [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''Realist'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]] 21:10, 6 November 2008 (UTC) |
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Who knows, Michael Jackson has certainly lost a lot of fans in America, possibly all, but his international stardom still exists, I think he will do this, imagine the biggest selling pop star coming back.--[[User:Rafichamp|rafichamp]] ([[User talk:Rafichamp|talk]]) 01:11, 7 November 2008 (UTC) |
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:''[[Thriller 25]]'' has already sold 650,000+ copies in the US since February. Number Ones has been selling 5,000 copies consistently every week. 5,000 x 52 = 500,000+. He will easily close this year selling at least 1.6 million units in the US alone, all old material with barely any promotion. Don't listen to MTP (Media talking points) or FF (false facts), spread by the media. 2008 has been his best year for sales in quite some time. — [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''Realist'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]] 01:19, 7 November 2008 (UTC) |
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== Michael Jackson is far from gone == |
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Hey guys look whos in at number 1 on the billboards heres the link.--[[User:Rafichamp|rafichamp]] ([[User talk:Rafichamp|talk]]) 04:44, 8 November 2008 (UTC) |
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== Main image change == |
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http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/charts/chart_display.jsp?g=Albums&f=Top+Pop+Catalog |
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:Hey hey [http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003888626 and according to Billboard T25 has sold 688,000 copies in the US since it's February release, making it the best selling catalog album of 2008]. 688,000 copies just off T25, wow! What are his complete sales in the US, including other albums, singles and DVDs? This is America! The country that apparently hates him! America only accounts for 25% of his market. His worldwide sales must be huge this year, he is one of the best selling artists of this year. Please, please, please help find more sources, I feel a strong revival. Thanx Rafichamp, nice to hear the good stories for once. — [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''Realist'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]] 13:05, 8 November 2008 (UTC) |
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[[File:Michael Jackson Dangerous World Tour 1993 (cropped).jpg|right|160x160px]] I changed the main image of Michael Jackson to File:Michael Jackson Dangerous World Tour 1993.jpg. This photo is way better then the previous photo, which is low-quality, grainy and black and white. This photo is high-quality and color, along with showing Jackson during his most popular tour. [[User:Wcamp9|Wcamp9]] ([[User talk:Wcamp9|talk]]) 18:38, 7 September 2024 (UTC) |
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Michael Jackson is nominated for "Worlds Best Pop Artsit", of the year at the WMA(World Music Awards) which is tomorrow, found it at mjjr.net, this is real so it shouldnt be too hard to find a source on google, ill leave that job up to realist 2.--[[User:Rafichamp|rafichamp]] ([[User talk:Rafichamp|talk]]) 00:58, 9 November 2008 (UTC) <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Rafichamp|Rafichamp]] ([[User talk:Rafichamp|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Rafichamp|contribs]]) 00:39, 9 November 2008 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:Seek consensus first. I have reverted this change. <b>[[User:GSK|GSK]]</b> <small>([[User_talk:GSK|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/GSK|edits]])</small> 19:18, 7 September 2024 (UTC) |
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Guys I found it, go to worldmusicawards.com and go to nominees 2008, scroll down and you will see Michael Jackson. As for who hes competitors, lol it looks like hes going to win, look at the artists your self, you will laugh.--[[User:Rafichamp|rafichamp]] ([[User talk:Rafichamp|talk]]) 00:58, 9 November 2008 (UTC) <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Rafichamp|Rafichamp]] ([[User talk:Rafichamp|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Rafichamp|contribs]]) 00:46, 9 November 2008 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:Well then should we change it [[User:Wcamp9|Wcamp9]] ([[User talk:Wcamp9|talk]]) 19:12, 10 September 2024 (UTC) |
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:Your right in my honest opinion! [[Special:Contributions/2600:1002:B1AE:67AE:5D14:770D:7A40:5611|2600:1002:B1AE:67AE:5D14:770D:7A40:5611]] ([[User talk:2600:1002:B1AE:67AE:5D14:770D:7A40:5611|talk]]) 00:18, 11 November 2024 (UTC) |
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== Infobox Image == |
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Also guys michael jacksons new album called king of pop(its a greatest hits album), is biggest selling album of the year(2008) in some country, just go to worldmusicawards.com and go to album sales.--[[User:Rafichamp|rafichamp]] ([[User talk:Rafichamp|talk]]) 00:58, 9 November 2008 (UTC) |
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Since my last post has not really got a response and is also kind of old, I am making a second comment also requesting that we change the image of Michael Jackson to the one on the right. A high-quality, color image taken during Michael Jackson's most popular tour. I feel this would be a good replacement to the grainy photo that is black-and-white and low quality of Jackson. [[File:Michael Jackson Dangerous World Tour 1993 (cropped).jpg|200x200px|center]] [[User:Wcamp9|Wcamp9]] ([[User talk:Wcamp9|talk]]) 01:16, 16 September 2024 (UTC) |
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If Michael Jackson wins this WMA from a remix album, with-out a doubt hes releasing a new album in march 09 for sure. |
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: |
:{{nd}} the copyright status for that (along with [[:File:Michael Jackson Dangerous World Tour 1993.jpg]] which it was cropped from) has been contested and could be deleted soon, so find something that's free instead. [[User:SNUGGUMS|<b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b>]] ([[User talk:SNUGGUMS|<b style="color:#009900">talk</b>]] / [[Special:Contributions/SNUGGUMS|<b style="color:#009900">edits</b>]]) 02:39, 16 September 2024 (UTC) |
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::Ok, I feel that this image needs to be replaced soon since it is so low quality and grainy and there is most definitely a better alternative out there since Jackson was probably the most famous person for a few years [[User:Wcamp9|Wcamp9]] ([[User talk:Wcamp9|talk]]) 21:02, 16 September 2024 (UTC) |
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== We should update the main image == |
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== Disputed addition - poorly written and concerns about [[WP:UNDUE WEIGHT]] and repeating same info == |
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The main image is a grainy, black and white (which I believe makes an image worse when there is color alternatives), and overall low quality. The problem is many images of Jackson on Wikimedia Commons are not really high quality. Any actually high quality ones (including two images below), are being nominated due to copyrighted issues. Here are two examples: |
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There is currently a dispute regarding the inclusion of this info in the Themes and genres sub section |
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<gallery> |
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Michael Jackson Dangerous World Tour 1993.jpg |
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Michael Jackson 1983.jpg |
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</gallery> |
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So here are the highest quality images I could find, from highest to lowest quality. Please know that I believe that color is better, but other factors like quality (including amount of grain, quality of image scan, and image size) also apply |
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<gallery> |
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Michael Jackson, Victory Tour, Arrowhead Stadium, 1984.jpg|1 |
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Michael Jackson 1988.jpg|2 (best of other Alan Light photos of Jackson) |
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2003 Michael Jackson at The Cable Show (29358712934) (1).jpg|3 |
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Michael Jackson with the Reagans (cropped).jpg|4 |
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Michael Jackson Cannes.jpg|5 |
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Michael Jackson (21211088815) (cropped).jpg|6 |
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George H. W. Bush with Michael Jackson (cropped).png|7 |
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Michael Jackson in Vegas cropped-3.jpg|8 |
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Michael Jackson1 1988.jpg|9 |
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Michael Jackson in 1988.jpg|10 |
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</gallery> |
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If we are to choose another image, which I strongly believe should be the case since 1-9 are better than 10 (the current main image), which should we do? |
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[[User:Wcamp9|Wcamp9]] ([[User talk:Wcamp9|talk]]) 20:42, 15 October 2024 (UTC) |
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:You're misusing the words "objective" and "objectively" here when whether certain pictures are better than others is an inherently subjective matter, so please don't treat your personal opinions as facts. Regardless, my preference of these would be image#7 for giving a clear front view of his face and isn't black-and-white like some of the other listings. [[User:SNUGGUMS|<b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b>]] ([[User talk:SNUGGUMS|<b style="color:#009900">talk</b>]] / [[Special:Contributions/SNUGGUMS|<b style="color:#009900">edits</b>]]) 22:21, 15 October 2024 (UTC) |
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::I believe that 2 should be used because of how high quality it is compared to other images [[User:Wcamp9|Wcamp9]] ([[User talk:Wcamp9|talk]]) 22:47, 15 October 2024 (UTC) |
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:::4 has been used in the past and is my choice.--'''''[[User:ianmacm|<span style="background:#88b;color:#cff;font-variant:small-caps">♦Ian<span style="background:#99c">Ma<span style="background:#aad">c</span></span>M♦</span>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ianmacm|(talk to me)]]</sup>''''' 07:09, 16 October 2024 (UTC) |
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::7 is my pick per the SNUGGUMS arguments. I think it is more recent and more recognisable than image #4 [[User:TheWikiholic|TheWikiholic]] ([[User talk:TheWikiholic|talk]]) 14:51, 17 October 2024 (UTC) |
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:::Ok [[User:Wcamp9|Wcamp9]] ([[User talk:Wcamp9|talk]]) 20:09, 20 October 2024 (UTC) |
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::I oppose #7; it doesn't have a clear view of his face due to his sunglasses. #3, #4, and #8 are disqualified for the same reason. #5, #6, and #9 have strange expressions. #10 is good, but not ideal because of a poor view of his face. #1 has good potential if cropped, and #2 is probably the best overall despite his atypical outfit. My favorite of all is [[:File:Michael Jackson 1983.jpg]], mentioned above, if it survives copyright challenges. — [[User:Goszei|Goszei]] ([[User_talk:Goszei|talk]]) 15:40, 21 October 2024 (UTC) |
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:I support #7, and I agree with @[[User:SNUGGUMS|SNUGGUMS]]'s statement. Although I don't think it is imperatively necessary to change the current image; but if it were to be done, I think #7 is the only suitable one, and it is a good option for the future considering, among other reasons, that it is in color. |
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:Apart from that, I am going to give my opinion on why I think some of the others are not valid at all. The optimal thing to do in a case like Jackson's, considering that he is one of the most public people the world knew and that it is easy for anyone to recognize him, is to choose a picture that represents what he is known for (i.e. music artist); that's why it is not appropriate to use as the main picture something that is part of his non-artistic life, like [[:File:Michaeljacksonmug1 (cropped).jpg|the mugshot]] or #2 (where he is not exercising as an entertainer, and he is not even wearing clothes that represent his artistic persona, just as if it were a picture at home in his pyjamas. It's a picture with close friends where he's wearing a [[Hilton Hotels & Resorts|Hilton Hotels]] cap...). I consider picture #6 to be of very low quality taking into account the other options and I don't find #3 and #8 to be good choices, because they show Jackson in his last years of life, and it is always preferable (as has been done in other cases, such as Queen [[Elizabeth II]]) to choose a picture from the "in-between" part of the subject's life. #1, #4, #5, #5, #7 and #10 are valid and appropriate pictures to be used as the main picture in this article, but I consider #7 and #10 (the one currently used) to be the best choices considering that they are better representing Jackson at an in-between time in his life. [[User:Salvabl|Salvabl]] ([[User talk:Salvabl|talk]]) 02:12, 24 October 2024 (UTC) |
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::I disagree, number 10 is the lowest qauality picture of Jackson, and each of the reasons you give make sense, but a side profile of Jackson that is low quality does not make for a better representation of the subject in most cases. I thought we should have done 2, but 4 and 7 are fine too, with all in high quality color [[User:Wcamp9|Wcamp9]] ([[User talk:Wcamp9|talk]]) 18:27, 26 October 2024 (UTC) |
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::How would i go about acquiring the right to use a image of him for this page? Who do i contact? [[User:Never17|Never17]] ([[User talk:Never17|talk]]) 00:58, 1 November 2024 (UTC) |
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:The most famous photo we have is the one set during the Dangerous world tour in his Jam outfit, however there's apparently issues with that one. Of the remaining options, his estate currently uses a image of MJ from the Bad world tour as his profile picture across their social media platforms but the one we got is in black in white and not very high quality. The only other option i think would be suitable is #7 as it's a photo of him receiving the artist of the decade award at the white house in high quality. This was set between the Bad and Dangerous era's of his career when he was at his arguable peak and is fitting for his biographical page. [[User:Never17|Never17]] ([[User talk:Never17|talk]]) 03:52, 29 October 2024 (UTC) |
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: In my opinion, the press photo from 1983 <small>(Michael Jackson 1983.jpg) </small> should be used, it's well-lit, copyright free and is arguably of the highest quality of all of the images there.[[User:PHShanghai|PHShanghai | they/them]] ([[User talk:PHShanghai|talk]]) 00:32, 21 November 2024 (UTC) |
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::That will work [[User:Never17|Never17]] ([[User talk:Never17|talk]]) 01:23, 21 November 2024 (UTC) |
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:::@[[User:Never17|Never17]] Please don't change the photo without consensus. [[User:Alyo|<span style="font-variant:small-caps">Alyo</span>]] ''([[User talk:Alyo|<b style="font-family:courier; font-size:small">chat</b>]]·[[Special:Contributions/Alyo|<b style="font-family:courier; font-size:small">edits</b>]])'' 01:30, 21 November 2024 (UTC) |
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::::I didn't change anything, i just agreed with what the other guy said [[User:Never17|Never17]] ([[User talk:Never17|talk]]) 03:10, 21 November 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::I have no idea how to do it, but can someone start an RfC or something that will have a more significant way to change it [[User:Wcamp9|Wcamp9]] ([[User talk:Wcamp9|talk]]) 21:04, 8 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::I would love to find someway to acquire copyright rights for some high quality images to use for this page, i don't know how to do that though. Maybe a admin here would know [[User:Never17|Never17]] ([[User talk:Never17|talk]]) 21:28, 8 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== wrong date == |
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:The album also contained two rock songs like "[[Black or White]]", a rock song<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug04/articles/classictracks.htm |title=CLASSIC TRACKS:'Black Or White' |publisher=Sound and sound |accessdate=2008-11-9 }}</ref> that uses a denatured but still invigorating Rolling Stones guitar riff<ref name="NYT Dangerous">{{cite news|first=Jon |last=Pareles |url=http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CE2D6143DF937A15752C1A967958260&n=Top%2fReference%2fTimes%20Topics%2fPeople%2fJ%2fJackson%2c%20Michael |title=Michael Jackson in the Electronic Wilderness |work=[[New York Times]] |date=[[1991-11-24]] |accessdate=2008-07-23}}</ref> and "[[Give In to Me]]", his second rock ballad, the kind of power ballad regularly dispensed by bands like [[Poison]].<ref name="NYT Dangerous"/> |
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Ghosts was Premiered at 1997 Cannes Film Festival, not 1996 [[User:Nomoresambo|Nomoresambo]] ([[User talk:Nomoresambo|talk]]) 15:38, 4 November 2024 (UTC) |
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;refs |
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{{reflist}} |
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== Cause of Death == |
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Firstly it is poorly written. Secondly it's not written in a neutral manner. Thirdly some of it is mentioned elsewhere. Take a look at the audio clip of "Black or White" where some of this info is already mentioned. Fourthly there is clearly too much info on the ''[[Dangerous (album)|Dangerous]]'' album already. As seen by the following; |
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Since a criminal trial was held and the judge came to a decision that Jackson's death wasn't a accident but a result of criminal homicide (murder), should we add a note or something to let people know this wasn't a accidental overdose but a murder? We also have lots of reports stating Jackson was mostly healthy at the time of his death which lead to the decision. |
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:''Allmusic's Stephen Erlewine states that ''Dangerous'' presents Jackson as a stark paradoxal individual. He comments the album is more diverse than his previous ''Bad'', as it appeals to an urban audience while also attracting the middle class with anthems like "[[Heal the World]]". The first half of the record is dedicated to new jack swing, including songs like "[[Jam (song)|Jam]]" and "[[Remember the Time]]". The album is Jackson's first where social ills become a primary theme; "Why You Wanna Trip on Me", for example, protests against world hunger, [[AIDS]], homelessness and drugs. ''Dangerous'' contains sexually charged efforts like "[[In the Closet]]", a love song about desire and denial, risk and repression, solitude and connection, privacy and revelation. The title track continues the theme of the predatory lover and compulsive desire. The second half includes introspective, pop-gospel anthems such as "[[Will You Be There]]", "Heal the World" and "Keep the Faith"; these songs show Jackson finally opening up about various personal struggles and worries. In the ballad "[[Gone Too Soon]]", Jackson gives tribute to his friend [[Ryan White]] and the plight of those with AIDS.'' |
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[https://www.spin.com/2011/11/conrad-murray-sentenced-four-years-prison-death-michael-jackson/ This was “'''a criminal homicide case'''” rather than a malpractice case, the judge said.] |
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Can I remind editors that the article ''is'' pushing the upper guideline on word count and there is still lot's going on in MJ's life, the article will grow further and we can't go into every detail. |
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[https://www.theguardian.com/music/2009/aug/28/michael-jackson-homicide Michael Jackson's death officially ruled a homicide - The Guardian] |
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Please explain why this info is needed and how we can go about writing it correctly. If this is reinserted without discussion action can be taken. Third party comment would be helpful here. I have added a notice [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Alexanderfriend&diff=250767472&oldid=250741546 here] to inform the editor in question. Further disruption needs to be dealt with, the editor has been warned before. — [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''Realist'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]] 00:48, 10 November 2008 (UTC) |
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[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/autopsy-michael-jackson-was-healthy/ Michael Jackson was healthy at the time of death, rules Autospy Report] |
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[[User:Never17|Never17]] ([[User talk:Never17|talk]]) 18:43, 5 November 2024 (UTC) |
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::I can't see the full refs here but |
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*"a denatured but still invigorating Rolling Stones guitar riff" - would require sourcing, as would |
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*"the kind of power ballad regularly dispensed by bands like [[Poison]]" - which, absent a ref, looks dangerously like [[WP:OR|original research]]. |
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In any event, I'd say this granularity of detail doesn't belong in this article but more so in the articles about the tracks themselves; there is already a [[plethora]] of material to be considered, and this seems to me to be unnecessary. My 2p. worth. --[[User:Rodhullandemu|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0000FF">Rodhull</span>]][[User_talk:Rodhullandemu|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#FF0000">andemu</span>]] 01:50, 10 November 2008 (UTC) |
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:Conrad Murray was convicted of [[Manslaughter_(United_States_law)#Involuntary_manslaughter|involuntary manslaughter]]. This isn't a cause of death, which is correctly stated in the infobox here as acute propofol intoxication. Over at [[Death of Michael Jackson]], the infobox gives the cause of death as "Accidental homicide by acute propofol intoxication". This is perhaps more accurate and could be added to the infobox. Jackson was not murdered, because Murray's actions were considered to be negligent or reckless rather than a deliberate act.--'''''[[User:ianmacm|<span style="background:#88b;color:#cff;font-variant:small-caps">♦Ian<span style="background:#99c">Ma<span style="background:#aad">c</span></span>M♦</span>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ianmacm|(talk to me)]]</sup>''''' 20:08, 5 November 2024 (UTC) |
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== His Associated acts == |
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::Got it, i agree [[User:Never17|Never17]] ([[User talk:Never17|talk]]) 20:30, 5 November 2024 (UTC) |
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:A homicide but not a murder. Any illegal causing of human death is a homicide, which is then divided into categories. All murders are homicides, but not all homicides are murders. This was legally a homicide but was not a murder. [[Special:Contributions/2600:1011:B023:AC6E:19E9:4C7A:2DF4:1A4C|2600:1011:B023:AC6E:19E9:4C7A:2DF4:1A4C]] ([[User talk:2600:1011:B023:AC6E:19E9:4C7A:2DF4:1A4C|talk]]) 02:33, 14 November 2024 (UTC) |
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== Wrong link to "robot" in the intro == |
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His associated acts only lists The Jackson 5/Jacksons era. However he also had notable collaboration with R. Kelly (You Are Not Alone, Cry, and One More Chance), Lionel Richie (We are the world), Diana Ross (Ease on Down the Road), Slash (Black or White, Give in to Me, DS, Privacy), Janet Jackson (Scream), Stevie Wonder (Just Good Friends, I Can't Help It) and Paul McCartney (The Girl is Mine, Say Say Say, The Man). <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/69.235.226.98|69.235.226.98]] ([[User talk:69.235.226.98|talk]]) 04:21, 13 November 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:Associated act's does not mean that we list co-lab's. Just former groups. Cheers — [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''Realist'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]] 09:30, 13 November 2008 (UTC) |
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Should be linked to [[Robot (dance)]]; instead it's linked to the page for actual robots. [[Special:Contributions/2601:188:C801:4FF0:C0E2:D238:FB34:848C|2601:188:C801:4FF0:C0E2:D238:FB34:848C]] ([[User talk:2601:188:C801:4FF0:C0E2:D238:FB34:848C|talk]]) 02:11, 14 November 2024 (UTC) |
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== Michael Jackson being Sued == |
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:{{done}} thank you for pointing out that error! [[User:SNUGGUMS|<b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b>]] ([[User talk:SNUGGUMS|<b style="color:#009900">talk</b>]] / [[Special:Contributions/SNUGGUMS|<b style="color:#009900">edits</b>]]) 02:19, 14 November 2024 (UTC) |
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== Middle name == |
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Mj is being sued guys you can read further information on this; heres the link. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7733608.stm--[[User:Rafichamp|rafichamp]] ([[User talk:Rafichamp|talk]]) 02:43, 18 November 2008 (UTC) |
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:He's being sued everyday, thus it lacks notability. If the plaintiff wins notability increases and it might be worth a mention. Again, Michael Jackson losing a lawsuit isn't a rarity, it happens every year. We are not here to document every legal affair. Sure that's obvious but just reminding everyone. — [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''Realist'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]] 11:18, 18 November 2008 (UTC) |
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I have seen in various sources that his legal middle name was "Joe" rather than "Joseph" (and the Michael-is-alive people point to "Joseph" on the death certificate as evidence he did not really die). But does anyone have a RS for his actual middle name, one way or the other? [[Special:Contributions/2600:1011:B023:AC6E:19E9:4C7A:2DF4:1A4C|2600:1011:B023:AC6E:19E9:4C7A:2DF4:1A4C]] ([[User talk:2600:1011:B023:AC6E:19E9:4C7A:2DF4:1A4C|talk]]) 02:38, 14 November 2024 (UTC) |
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===Disputed text=== |
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I have removed the following text; |
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:''On [[17 November]] [[2008]] is was reported that Jackson is being sued by [[Abdulla Bin Hamad Bin Isa Al-Khalifa|Sheikh Abdulla Bin Hamad Bin Isa Al-Khalifa]] for £4.7 millon at the [[High Court of Justice|High Court]] in [[London]] in a breach of contract case. Jackson stayed with Sheikh Abdulla, the second son of the [[King of Bahrain]], in [[2005]] following the child abuse court case. Jackson may have to visit [[England]] to defend the case in person.'' <ref>[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7735729.stm Jackson 'too sick' for court case].</ref><ref>[http://uk.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUKTRE4AG69C20081117 Bahrain prince sues Michael Jackson in high court]</ref><ref>[http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/11/17/jackson.court.ap/index.html?iref=newssearch Sheikh seeks millions from Michael Jackson]</ref> |
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== Child molestation allegations. == |
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Jackson has been taken to court nearly one hundred times in his life. I agree this ''could'' become notable, but currently it's just another court case. It is not notable to Jackson's life at this stage, he eats a meal as often as he is accused of something. Until the court reaches a verdict and a possible settlement is reached there is nothing about this particular lawsuit that deserves a mention over the lawsuits he had in the 80's. Clear case of recentism at this stage. — [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''Realist'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]] 21:16, 18 November 2008 (UTC) |
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Leaving Never Land, testimony from his victims [[Special:Contributions/2603:7000:BEF0:2B60:D82C:3BE3:EE9D:F1C5|2603:7000:BEF0:2B60:D82C:3BE3:EE9D:F1C5]] ([[User talk:2603:7000:BEF0:2B60:D82C:3BE3:EE9D:F1C5|talk]]) 07:25, 1 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:I'm sure in the US being sued is an everyday occurance. In the High Court in London it is not. Being sued by a Crown Prince of a foreign country and a person who bankrolled his lifestyle for 6 months is relevant. They recorded songs together and signed contracts. He paid the bills at Neverland. All of these points are notable. If it blows over in a couple of weeks then it should be removed. If, as I suspect theis is the next big scandal, then your actions are doing the article and the readers a dis-service. Please reinsert the text. [[User:Simon123|simonthebold]] ([[User talk:Simon123|talk]]) 11:25, 19 November 2008 (UTC) |
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::OK, if you believe the Prince's argument that he "bankrolled his lifestyle for 6 months...songs together and signed contracts...paid the bills at Neverland" that's your right. It's usually accepted that their is a presumption of innocence in any decent country at least. We can wait the full 10 day duration of this short civil trial and find out what actually happens. And actually Michael Jackson has been in the High court several times before. It's really ''not'' a notable part of Jackson's history at this stage. If the court rules that he must repay a large sum of money it ''may'' be notable, but again, this will not be remembered in 4 years time and Jackson will forget about it before then. At this stage it's really irrelevant to Jackson's 50 year existence on planet earth. He's been through and seen a lot. — [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''Realist'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]] 12:15, 19 November 2008 (UTC) |
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::[http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Michael_Jackson&diff=prev&oldid=252922365 Another attempt has been made to reinsert the text], people, we are not a breaking news cite, read [[WP:RECENTISM]], there are other venues for breaking news. We do not add text until it becomes notable, not because it ''could'' become notable. We are not a [[WP:CRYSTAL BALL]]. Please just wait the darn 9 days and see what develops. We are not a news site, this is not the venue to read about news. — [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''Realist'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]] 04:04, 20 November 2008 (UTC) |
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:I'm sure it heartening for Jackson to see that his loyal fans are defending HIS honour so vigorously. BTW when did HE become deified? [[User:Simon123|simonthebold]] ([[User talk:Simon123|talk]]) 09:59, 20 November 2008 (UTC) PS before you accuse me of personal attacks you should consider your own ethnic slur above. |
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::What ethnic slur? [[User:Bookkeeperoftheoccult|<span style="color:black">'''''The Bookkeeper'''''</span>]] [[User talk:Bookkeeperoftheoccult|<small><span style="color:gray">('''''of the Occult''''')</span></small>]] 10:13, 20 November 2008 (UTC) |
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:::Simon123, your bad faith attack against me is completely unacceptable and highly offensive. Yes I like Michael Jackson, it's not a crime and lot's of people secretly do, I just admit it publicaly. However, I near single handily rewrote this article and turned it into an [[WP:FA]] article. My level of neutrality is not in question, I'm fully prepared to write all the shit about Jackson that feeds your desires. However everything written on this article, ''will'' appear in newspapers at some point. What we write is used by the press. |
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:Jackson's allegations have their own page, furthermore the "accusers" were people who had previously defended him under oath in a court of law or to law enforcement and various contradictions were exposed. They are largely discredited, the only case that is a point of contention is the 1993 accusation due to the nature of the settlement. That in fact is mentioned in depth here [[User:Never17|Never17]] ([[User talk:Never17|talk]]) 01:51, 9 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:::As for ethnic slur? That is such a ridiculous statement, I can't believe your even saying it. If you can't win a dispute using policy then be quiet, don't attack me personally. — [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''Realist'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]] 17:38, 20 November 2008 (UTC) |
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::If I said 'the US supreme court is a sham and breaches universal human rights because the US isn't a decent country', you might interpret that as an attack on your ethnic identity if you were a US citizen. I'm English and you attacked my ethnicity. Anyway I don't really care about that, I'm more affronted by your editing choices: |
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:: The points I raised were valid. I suspect you removed the comments about the court case, not because of any supposed breach of WP guidelines but because you are the self appointed guardian of this page and that you believe this gives you the right to determine editing policy. I suspect you do this because you are a devoted fan and no doubt this is in some way admirable. I fear the reality is that your choices are biased against any criticism of HIM. I note, for example, no mention of the widespread ridicule afforded to the large egotistical statues floated on the Thames to promote his world tour. No mention of the [[Jarvis Cocker]] incident at the Brits in 1996. Come to think of it the whole article is unremittingly positive; no section about criticism of the man even though there is a veritable industry in knocking him and exposing his eccentricities (I'm being generous here), countless books and documentaries etc. Perhaps balance and judgement come with age - who knows? All the same I think readers would like to know about the current court case where Jackson will have to appear (no doubt feigning some kind of illness as usual). I think you'll find the English courts a lot less tolerant of HIS theatrics and therefore the truth might even emerge this time. [[User:Simon123|simonthebold]] ([[User talk:Simon123|talk]]) 18:58, 20 November 2008 (UTC) PS. don't swear, its a sign of immaturity. |
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It’s already covered: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson#Posthumous_child_sexual_abuse_allegations |
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:: Deleting comments that upset you, because its easier than dealing with the arguments is also immature. [[User:Simon123|simonthebold]] ([[User talk:Simon123|talk]]) 19:26, 20 November 2008 (UTC) |
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BTW, please note that its’ only ”alleged victims”. Journalists have uncovered several contradictions (and possible untruths) in the Leaving Neverland film (you can give this podcast a listen, then make up your own mind: https://www.michaeljacksoncaseforinnocence.com). <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/37.96.7.161|37.96.7.161]] ([[User talk:37.96.7.161#top|talk]]) 22:03, 2 December 2024 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:::Whatever, I'm too tired to bicker about me being a racist pov pusher. In the mean while can you provide me with the writer of the daily mail piece so I can add it to the reference. — [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''Realist'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]] 19:39, 20 November 2008 (UTC) |
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::1. I never called you racist nor disclosed my race.<br> |
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::2. There is no author because I just made it up to make a point.<br> |
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::3. Although I made it up, the stautes were an object of ridicule, I remember it well.<br> |
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::4. I won't edit the article anymore, because I have a life and more important things to do ;-)<br> |
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::5. Sorry, if I offended you, but I really do think the article is too one-sided. You are well place to correct this - good luck. [[User:Simon123|simonthebold]] ([[User talk:Simon123|talk]]) 19:49, 20 November 2008 (UTC) |
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:::You made it up to make a point!? This is a featured article! What on earth are you playing at? This is highly destructive. To sum up, you have made bad faith allegations against me, you have made BLP comments against Jackson on this talk page, you have breached NPOV multiple times, you have added deliberate mis-information to the article and acted in a [[WP:POINT]]Y manner. Goodbye. Your lucky I'm not taking this to [[WP:ANI]]. — [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''Realist'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]] 19:58, 20 November 2008 (UTC) |
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== Forbes 2024 == |
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Jackson is to make an appearance in the High Court, according to [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7739349.stm this article], so it's possibly more noticeable than some of the other lawsuits. But it may be worth waiting until he actually shows up before adding it: As Realist 2 says, we're not a breaking news service.--[[User:Pawnkingthree|Pawnkingthree]] ([[User talk:Pawnkingthree|talk]]) 20:12, 20 November 2008 (UTC) |
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:Again, Jackson has appeared in civil court, in person, many many times. He has appeared even in the London High Court in person at least twice before. I know the press are trying to drum this up into something exciting, but to Jackson it is just another lawsuit. Why does this specific one warrant attention over any other? Do we start documenting all these civil cases? Why is this case being isolated? Could it be recentism perhaps? Will this be important in the future? At this point it's impossible to tell. Probably not, only one civil case (out of court settlement actually) has sustained enough notability to be included in this biography (the 1993 settlement). This is such a none important issue in the long term and we all know it deep down. It's incomprehensible to suggest that every allegation (found to be true or not) should be included in this biography. If this case had happened in the 80's to 1990's, before the Wikipedia internet age, it would not be in the biography. No-one would remember it today. |
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:At the very least we can wait the 9 days and just see what, if anything, warrants notability (Jackson appearing in person is not notable, it's the norm). Hopefully if he does go to the UK someone can snap a picture for our Wikipedia article :0 — [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''Realist'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]] 20:33, 20 November 2008 (UTC) |
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Hi, |
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== Not "Thriller 25" but "Off the Wall 30" == |
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Forbes just re-elected Michael Jackson as top-earning Dead Celebrity. |
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Could someone with editing rights please update 2023 to 2024 in |
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''Forbes has consistently recognized Jackson as one of the top-earning dead celebrities since his death, and placed him at the top spot from 2013 to 2023.'' |
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Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2024/10/29/the-highest-paid-dead-celebrities-of-2024/ |
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Thank you! :-) [[Special:Contributions/37.96.7.161|37.96.7.161]] ([[User talk:37.96.7.161|talk]]) 22:08, 2 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 December 2024 == |
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[http://www.mjfanclub.net/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1515&Itemid=82 A respected fan site has published this]. Obviously we can't use them yet as it's a fan site but they are notoriously accurate, infact Sony contacted them about the release of T25 before billboard. Please help lookout for third party sources on this so I/we can go ahead and make the article. — [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''Realist'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]] 17:49, 19 November 2008 (UTC) |
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{{edit extended-protected|Michael Jackson|answered=yes}} |
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::Sony BMG confirmed to MJfrance that OTW30 was being released in Feb a few months ago. Also, Maximum Jackson got the news from Sony BMG AU. MJFC got it after that. We should expect an official press release soon. :) [[User:Marnifrances|Marnifrances]] ([[User talk:Marnifrances|talk]]) 12:23, 21 November 2008 (UTC) |
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Net worth is not negative (unless since he’s dead , it could technically be 0 |
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:::Great news, a shame it couldn't have been released in 2008, he's had a cracking year sales wise already and it would have been nice to make it even more. — [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''Realist'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]] 12:33, 21 November 2008 (UTC) |
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Also |
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== Conversion == |
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His kids names are wrong [[Special:Contributions/2600:6C51:767F:9162:557B:5E56:8ECC:5314|2600:6C51:767F:9162:557B:5E56:8ECC:5314]] ([[User talk:2600:6C51:767F:9162:557B:5E56:8ECC:5314|talk]]) 06:30, 16 December 2024 (UTC) |
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Heard he converted to Islam. Is it just rumour or..?--[[User:Abhishek Jacob|Abhishek Jacob]] ([[User talk:Abhishek Jacob|talk]]) 13:10, 21 November 2008 (UTC) |
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:[[File:Red question icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done''': it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a [[WP:EDITXY|"change X to Y" format]] and provide a [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable source]] if appropriate.<!-- Template:EEp --> [[User:Cannolis|Cannolis]] ([[User talk:Cannolis|talk]]) 08:02, 16 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:We wait for Mr Jackson to comment on any conversion. — [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''Realist'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]] 13:21, 21 November 2008 (UTC) |
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[http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Michael_Jackson_has_converted_to_Islam_Report/articleshow/3740517.cms] --[[User:SkyWalker|SkyWalker]] ([[User talk:SkyWalker|talk]]) 15:17, 21 November 2008 (UTC) |
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::The story was disseminated by a notorious tabloid called the sun. Times of india are just repeating the suns story. Even if Jackson did wear a hat and sing a Muslim song to please and be respectful to his guest's, that does not mean he has converted religion. The conservative media did the same to [[Barrack Obama]] when he took part in a ceremony with his guests Tabloids have been talking this crap up for over a decade, move along folks. — [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''Realist'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]] 15:24, 21 November 2008 (UTC) |
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::Its sad that realist has taken the stance that converting to Islam is a bad thing that the conservative media does. In fact, this story has run in numerous papers across the world--109 on the last count. Until he says he hasn't I believe it. ([[User talk:Zjhafeez|talk]]) |
Latest revision as of 08:02, 16 December 2024
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Michael Jackson article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Many of these questions arise frequently on the talk page concerning Michael Jackson.
Q1: Should the article mention reports that Michael Jackson was Muslim? (No.)
A1: No. The article should not mention reports that Michael Jackson was Muslim. Jackson had not publicly spoken about his exact religion in a number of years and only spoke about spirituality in general terms. The specific reports of a conversion ceremony for Jackson have been denied by his New York lawyer Londell McMillan.[1] They were also denied by Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens[2] and Dawud Wharnsby[3] who were allegedly present at the ceremony. The Michael Jackson memorial service did not involve any Islamic rites. Without further details from his family or representatives, it will not be included in the article. Q2: Should the "Jacko" name be mentioned in the lead? (No.)
A2: No. The "Jacko" name should not be mentioned in the lead. Past consensus goes against such inclusion. The name is a derogatory term used primarily by US/UK/Australian tabloids. The slogan is discussed in the relevant section of the article. Q3: Should the article mention that Jackson reportedly had cancer/blindness/liver disease/AIDS, etc.? (No.)
A3: No.
The article should not mention that Jackson reportedly had cancer, blindness, liver disease, AIDS, etc. Until such claims are confirmed by a Jackson representative it will not go in the article at all. These claims are largely fabricated by tabloids. Q4: Should the article mention that Jackson reportedly had a secret child called Omer Bhatti? (No.)
A4: No.
This claim was denied by Bhatti [4] and only a DNA test would resolve the matter. Q5: Isn't Jackson the seventh child of the Jackson family, not the eighth? (No.)
A5: No.
Marlon had a twin, Brandon, who died shortly after birth. This makes Michael the eighth child. |
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Main image change
[edit]I changed the main image of Michael Jackson to File:Michael Jackson Dangerous World Tour 1993.jpg. This photo is way better then the previous photo, which is low-quality, grainy and black and white. This photo is high-quality and color, along with showing Jackson during his most popular tour. Wcamp9 (talk) 18:38, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
- Seek consensus first. I have reverted this change. GSK (talk • edits) 19:18, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
- Well then should we change it Wcamp9 (talk) 19:12, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
- Your right in my honest opinion! 2600:1002:B1AE:67AE:5D14:770D:7A40:5611 (talk) 00:18, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
Infobox Image
[edit]Since my last post has not really got a response and is also kind of old, I am making a second comment also requesting that we change the image of Michael Jackson to the one on the right. A high-quality, color image taken during Michael Jackson's most popular tour. I feel this would be a good replacement to the grainy photo that is black-and-white and low quality of Jackson.
Wcamp9 (talk) 01:16, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
Not done the copyright status for that (along with File:Michael Jackson Dangerous World Tour 1993.jpg which it was cropped from) has been contested and could be deleted soon, so find something that's free instead. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 02:39, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
- Ok, I feel that this image needs to be replaced soon since it is so low quality and grainy and there is most definitely a better alternative out there since Jackson was probably the most famous person for a few years Wcamp9 (talk) 21:02, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
We should update the main image
[edit]The main image is a grainy, black and white (which I believe makes an image worse when there is color alternatives), and overall low quality. The problem is many images of Jackson on Wikimedia Commons are not really high quality. Any actually high quality ones (including two images below), are being nominated due to copyrighted issues. Here are two examples:
So here are the highest quality images I could find, from highest to lowest quality. Please know that I believe that color is better, but other factors like quality (including amount of grain, quality of image scan, and image size) also apply
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1
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2 (best of other Alan Light photos of Jackson)
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3
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4
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5
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6
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7
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8
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9
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10
If we are to choose another image, which I strongly believe should be the case since 1-9 are better than 10 (the current main image), which should we do? Wcamp9 (talk) 20:42, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- You're misusing the words "objective" and "objectively" here when whether certain pictures are better than others is an inherently subjective matter, so please don't treat your personal opinions as facts. Regardless, my preference of these would be image#7 for giving a clear front view of his face and isn't black-and-white like some of the other listings. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 22:21, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- I believe that 2 should be used because of how high quality it is compared to other images Wcamp9 (talk) 22:47, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- 4 has been used in the past and is my choice.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 07:09, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- 7 is my pick per the SNUGGUMS arguments. I think it is more recent and more recognisable than image #4 TheWikiholic (talk) 14:51, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- I oppose #7; it doesn't have a clear view of his face due to his sunglasses. #3, #4, and #8 are disqualified for the same reason. #5, #6, and #9 have strange expressions. #10 is good, but not ideal because of a poor view of his face. #1 has good potential if cropped, and #2 is probably the best overall despite his atypical outfit. My favorite of all is File:Michael Jackson 1983.jpg, mentioned above, if it survives copyright challenges. — Goszei (talk) 15:40, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- I believe that 2 should be used because of how high quality it is compared to other images Wcamp9 (talk) 22:47, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- I support #7, and I agree with @SNUGGUMS's statement. Although I don't think it is imperatively necessary to change the current image; but if it were to be done, I think #7 is the only suitable one, and it is a good option for the future considering, among other reasons, that it is in color.
- Apart from that, I am going to give my opinion on why I think some of the others are not valid at all. The optimal thing to do in a case like Jackson's, considering that he is one of the most public people the world knew and that it is easy for anyone to recognize him, is to choose a picture that represents what he is known for (i.e. music artist); that's why it is not appropriate to use as the main picture something that is part of his non-artistic life, like the mugshot or #2 (where he is not exercising as an entertainer, and he is not even wearing clothes that represent his artistic persona, just as if it were a picture at home in his pyjamas. It's a picture with close friends where he's wearing a Hilton Hotels cap...). I consider picture #6 to be of very low quality taking into account the other options and I don't find #3 and #8 to be good choices, because they show Jackson in his last years of life, and it is always preferable (as has been done in other cases, such as Queen Elizabeth II) to choose a picture from the "in-between" part of the subject's life. #1, #4, #5, #5, #7 and #10 are valid and appropriate pictures to be used as the main picture in this article, but I consider #7 and #10 (the one currently used) to be the best choices considering that they are better representing Jackson at an in-between time in his life. Salvabl (talk) 02:12, 24 October 2024 (UTC)
- I disagree, number 10 is the lowest qauality picture of Jackson, and each of the reasons you give make sense, but a side profile of Jackson that is low quality does not make for a better representation of the subject in most cases. I thought we should have done 2, but 4 and 7 are fine too, with all in high quality color Wcamp9 (talk) 18:27, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
- How would i go about acquiring the right to use a image of him for this page? Who do i contact? Never17 (talk) 00:58, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
- The most famous photo we have is the one set during the Dangerous world tour in his Jam outfit, however there's apparently issues with that one. Of the remaining options, his estate currently uses a image of MJ from the Bad world tour as his profile picture across their social media platforms but the one we got is in black in white and not very high quality. The only other option i think would be suitable is #7 as it's a photo of him receiving the artist of the decade award at the white house in high quality. This was set between the Bad and Dangerous era's of his career when he was at his arguable peak and is fitting for his biographical page. Never17 (talk) 03:52, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
- In my opinion, the press photo from 1983 (Michael Jackson 1983.jpg) should be used, it's well-lit, copyright free and is arguably of the highest quality of all of the images there.PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 00:32, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- That will work Never17 (talk) 01:23, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Never17 Please don't change the photo without consensus. Alyo (chat·edits) 01:30, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- I didn't change anything, i just agreed with what the other guy said Never17 (talk) 03:10, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- I have no idea how to do it, but can someone start an RfC or something that will have a more significant way to change it Wcamp9 (talk) 21:04, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
- I would love to find someway to acquire copyright rights for some high quality images to use for this page, i don't know how to do that though. Maybe a admin here would know Never17 (talk) 21:28, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
- I have no idea how to do it, but can someone start an RfC or something that will have a more significant way to change it Wcamp9 (talk) 21:04, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
- I didn't change anything, i just agreed with what the other guy said Never17 (talk) 03:10, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Never17 Please don't change the photo without consensus. Alyo (chat·edits) 01:30, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- That will work Never17 (talk) 01:23, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
wrong date
[edit]Ghosts was Premiered at 1997 Cannes Film Festival, not 1996 Nomoresambo (talk) 15:38, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
Cause of Death
[edit]Since a criminal trial was held and the judge came to a decision that Jackson's death wasn't a accident but a result of criminal homicide (murder), should we add a note or something to let people know this wasn't a accidental overdose but a murder? We also have lots of reports stating Jackson was mostly healthy at the time of his death which lead to the decision.
This was “a criminal homicide case” rather than a malpractice case, the judge said.
Michael Jackson's death officially ruled a homicide - The Guardian
Michael Jackson was healthy at the time of death, rules Autospy Report
Never17 (talk) 18:43, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
- Conrad Murray was convicted of involuntary manslaughter. This isn't a cause of death, which is correctly stated in the infobox here as acute propofol intoxication. Over at Death of Michael Jackson, the infobox gives the cause of death as "Accidental homicide by acute propofol intoxication". This is perhaps more accurate and could be added to the infobox. Jackson was not murdered, because Murray's actions were considered to be negligent or reckless rather than a deliberate act.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 20:08, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
- Got it, i agree Never17 (talk) 20:30, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
- A homicide but not a murder. Any illegal causing of human death is a homicide, which is then divided into categories. All murders are homicides, but not all homicides are murders. This was legally a homicide but was not a murder. 2600:1011:B023:AC6E:19E9:4C7A:2DF4:1A4C (talk) 02:33, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
Wrong link to "robot" in the intro
[edit]Should be linked to Robot (dance); instead it's linked to the page for actual robots. 2601:188:C801:4FF0:C0E2:D238:FB34:848C (talk) 02:11, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
Done thank you for pointing out that error! SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 02:19, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
Middle name
[edit]I have seen in various sources that his legal middle name was "Joe" rather than "Joseph" (and the Michael-is-alive people point to "Joseph" on the death certificate as evidence he did not really die). But does anyone have a RS for his actual middle name, one way or the other? 2600:1011:B023:AC6E:19E9:4C7A:2DF4:1A4C (talk) 02:38, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
Child molestation allegations.
[edit]Leaving Never Land, testimony from his victims 2603:7000:BEF0:2B60:D82C:3BE3:EE9D:F1C5 (talk) 07:25, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
- Jackson's allegations have their own page, furthermore the "accusers" were people who had previously defended him under oath in a court of law or to law enforcement and various contradictions were exposed. They are largely discredited, the only case that is a point of contention is the 1993 accusation due to the nature of the settlement. That in fact is mentioned in depth here Never17 (talk) 01:51, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
It’s already covered: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson#Posthumous_child_sexual_abuse_allegations BTW, please note that its’ only ”alleged victims”. Journalists have uncovered several contradictions (and possible untruths) in the Leaving Neverland film (you can give this podcast a listen, then make up your own mind: https://www.michaeljacksoncaseforinnocence.com). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.96.7.161 (talk) 22:03, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
Forbes 2024
[edit]Hi, Forbes just re-elected Michael Jackson as top-earning Dead Celebrity. Could someone with editing rights please update 2023 to 2024 in Forbes has consistently recognized Jackson as one of the top-earning dead celebrities since his death, and placed him at the top spot from 2013 to 2023. Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2024/10/29/the-highest-paid-dead-celebrities-of-2024/ Thank you! :-) 37.96.7.161 (talk) 22:08, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 December 2024
[edit]![]() | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Net worth is not negative (unless since he’s dead , it could technically be 0
Also His kids names are wrong 2600:6C51:767F:9162:557B:5E56:8ECC:5314 (talk) 06:30, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 08:02, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
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