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[[Category:Wikipedia reference desk|Miscellaneous]]
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{{Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2008 November 16}}


= December 19 =
{{Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2008 November 17}}


== Who is the following unknown? ==
{{Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2008 November 18}}


When asked '''<span style="color: orange">"WHO IS YOUR X?"</span>''' (X still being unknown to me but is known to the respondents), here are the answers I get:
= November 19 =
:
:'''<span style="color: blue">A answers: "A"</span>'''
:'''<span style="color: red">B answers: "C"</span>'''
:'''<span style="color: red">C answers: "C"</span>'''
:'''<span style="color: green">D answers: "F"</span>'''
:'''<span style="color: green">E answers: "F"</span>'''
:'''<span style="color: green">F answers: "F"</span>'''


To sum up, the special phenomenon here is that, everybody has their own X (usually), and if any respondent points at another respondent as the first respondent's X, then the other respondent '''must''' point at ''themself'' as their X.
== Professional Paper Stapling ==


I wonder who the unknown X may be, when I only know that X is a ''natural example from everyday life''. I thought about a couple of examples, but none of them are satisfactory, as follows:
What is the most professional way to staple pieces of paper? Should the staple run horizontally across the page, diagonally or vertically? [[User:Acceptable|Acceptable]] ([[User talk:Acceptable|talk]]) 00:52, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
:
X is the leader of one's political party, or X is one's mayor, and the like, but all of these examples attribute some kind of ''leadership'' or ''superiority'' to X, whereas I'm not interested in this kind of solution - involving any ''superiority'' of X.
:
Here is a second solution I thought about: X is the ''first (or last)'' person born in the year/month the respondent was born, and the like. But this solution involves some kind of ''order'' (in which there is a "first person" and a "last person"), whereas I'm not interested in this kind of solution - involving any ''order''. [[Special:Contributions/79.177.151.182|79.177.151.182]] ([[User talk:79.177.151.182|talk]]) 12:11, 19 December 2024 (UTC)


:Drummer? [[User:Card_Zero|<span style=" background-color:#fffff0; border:1px #995; border-style:dotted solid solid dotted;">&nbsp;Card&nbsp;Zero&nbsp;</span>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Card_Zero|(talk)]] 14:25, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
:[http://www.simoncox.com/mt3/2004/07/the_perfect_ang.php This] guy has given it some thought. -[[User:Hydnjo|hydnjo]] [[User talk:Hydnjo|talk]] 02:18, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
::The OP also posted this question on the Math desk. What if everyone says "I'm Spartacus!" ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 14:30, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
::I forgot to add an important point (so I've just added it, thanks to your response): Everybody has their own X (usually). [[Special:Contributions/79.177.151.182|79.177.151.182]] ([[User talk:79.177.151.182|talk]]) 14:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
::::What do you mean by "everybody has an X"? A lot of folks have an "ex", but is that what you mean? ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 15:08, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::I mean that everybody has their own X (usually), whether X is one's mayor, or X is the leader of one's political party, and so forth. Additionally, keep in mind that if any respondent points at another respondent as the first respondent's X, then the other respondent must point at ''themself'' as their X. [[Special:Contributions/79.177.151.182|79.177.151.182]] ([[User talk:79.177.151.182|talk]]) 15:21, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::(ec)The statement "everybody has their own X" makes no sense to me, and I'm a native English speaker. ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 15:36, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::X is the usual symbol denoting an unknown (as in mathematical equations), but here the unknown is a person, like "a mayor", and the like. [[Special:Contributions/79.177.151.182|79.177.151.182]] ([[User talk:79.177.151.182|talk]]) 15:42, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
:There are too many possible answers that still don't involve order or superiority.
:- Translator
:- Publisher
:- Spokesperson
:- Copyeditor
:- Cleaner
:- Keyholder (person who closes a shop and responsible for turning up in cases of property related emergencies - sometimes it's a manager but sometimes it's merely someone who is willing to stay late or be early)
:- Scribe
:- Accountant
:- Driver
:Basically anything where there's a "role" in a group but usually only one (barring circumstances).
:What are you hoping to accomplish by asking a question like this? [[User:Komonzia|Komonzia]] ([[User talk:Komonzia|talk]]) 15:34, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
::Thx. {{resolved}} [[Special:Contributions/79.177.151.182|79.177.151.182]] ([[User talk:79.177.151.182|talk]]) 15:42, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
:::I don't believe it. A publisher doesn't have necessarily a publisher, because it normally is not an author. A keyholder could be a trusted neighbour,who doesn't work at the shop and is therefore not its own keyholder (at least in relation to the shop). Of course in relation to its own living quarters mostly everybody is a keyholder, but that was not part of the definition. Even a translator doesn't translate itself when it expresses itself in the foreign language. At least not necessarily. Even a cleaner doesn't necessarily cleans up after itself. I know one! Personally!
:::When you're satisfied by these examples that don't match your description, then I would like to see the real description. [[Special:Contributions/176.0.128.31|176.0.128.31]] ([[User talk:176.0.128.31|talk]]) 08:24, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:So this is interesting linguistically and socially - the use of the word "usually" lets in a lot of the examples given, at least in some societies. However mathematically you are looking for something impossible. Lets assume that everyone has an X (or equivalently ignore those people without an X, who are also no-one's X). The relation partitions the set into subsets (i.e. the subsets include all the elements, and each element is in one and only one subset). Each subset has one self-X call it C for centre, and all the other elements (0 or more of them) point to C. Example, whole numbers under the relation "what is the remainder if you are divided by 5". 5 subsets with C=0, 1, 2, 3, 4. In every case there is a "privileged" centre, whether it would be considered superior, inferior or just special is open to interpretation. You can only have no centres in the case where there are no elements at all. All the best: ''[[User:Rich Farmbrough|Rich]] [[User talk:Rich Farmbrough|Farmbrough]]''<small> 21:07, 20 December 2024 (UTC).</small><br />


== Street View ==
::Basically you want to anticipate what angle the reader will fold back the stapled pages along, and put the staple parallel to that fold. For me, a slight tilt off the page's vertical seems to work best -- like the 22.5° mentioned on the page cited above, or even less. I'm surprised the guy refers to the "classic 45°", though; most people I know put the staple horizontally, which is definitely inferior. --Anonymous, 05:59 UTC, November 19, 2008.


Why Googlehas not launched Street View in mainland China? There do exist several user-submitted photos, mostly from landmarks and historical cities, but why Google cars have not traveled there yet? How likely is that in 2034, mainland China will have photos by Google cars if Street view is launched there?
:::I personally think that a vertical staple looks the most professional. [[User:Darkspots|Darkspots]] ([[User talk:Darkspots|talk]]) 12:11, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


And, why South Korea, a country with a large economy and almost no bans, still has large unphotographed areas with most minor cities and major freeways are not photographed entirely? And could North Korea ever get Street View by Google cars? --[[User:40bus|40bus]] ([[User talk:40bus|talk]]) 17:54, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
::I used to buy quantities of photocopiers for a large government department. The benefit of paying the extra cost of having automatic stapling devices fitted was enormous. In my experience ALL of them had the staple at the top left corner parallel with the long side of a sheet of A4. The OP asks for the most PROFESSIONAL way but maybe he meant to ask the most appealing way? If he would prefer the staple to lie across the top edge than my response above will not apply and I don't know if automatic staplers can be made to do that. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/92.10.76.60|92.10.76.60]] ([[User talk:92.10.76.60|talk]]) 19:27, 19 November 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Here is some info: [[Google Street View in Asia]] There are some places in China where they have it. As to future predictions, Wikipedia can't do that. ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 19:07, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
:{{ping|40bus}} https://webapps.stackexchange.com/a/160276 (and see also my comment below). {{tq|could North Korea ever get Street View by Google cars}} That is unlikely to happen in the foreseeable future, and anything beyond that is unforeseeable. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 01:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::My dream would be every country in the world having full coverage. Is that likely in next 20 years? At least Belarus's lack of Street View should be corrected. I would like to see views from every country. --[[User:40bus|40bus]] ([[User talk:40bus|talk]]) 06:21, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:::"[[If wishes were horses, beggars would ride|If wishes were horses...]]". ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 07:13, 20 December 2024 (UTC)


:Though a multinational, Google is at base an American company, or at least is perceived as such.
::That guy seems to have bought into the [http://www.maa.org/devlin/devlin_05_07.html Golden Mean myth]. -- [[User:BenRG|BenRG]] ([[User talk:BenRG|talk]]) 21:41, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
:Think about the political tensions between the [[Peoples Republic of China]], and the West in general and the USA in particular. Now ask yourself – how ''might'' the [[Government of China]] feel about American-controlled spy-cars driving around the whole of China, photographing everything visible? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} [[Special:Contributions/94.1.223.204|94.1.223.204]] ([[User talk:94.1.223.204|talk]]) 20:51, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
::That is (obviously) not the reason; your tin foil hat is malfunctioning. The USA does not require something as lowtech as a 360 camera mounted on a car to drive through an area to spy on that area. The reason is that Google does not want to waste its money. And China has a habit of creating local state-owned alternatives to foreign services, allowing those to rip off the foreign tech, and then massively disadvantaging the foreign company. They have done this many times before. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 01:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:::I'm not suggesting that the ''US'' would ''want'' (or need) to do this. I'm asking how the ''Chinese'' Government would welcome the ''appearance'' of it, particularly in the perception of their own people. International relations and management of internal perceptions are all about opinions, beliefs, and what can be spun, regardless of truth.
:::Recently, in my own country, Chinese visitors and personnel from an ostensible language school fomented a totally spurious 'incident' at a London railway terminus, by approaching a well-known busker and YouTuber filming his and others' performances on a public piano, and then insisting that he stop filming, complaining to police present that he was violating their rights by filming them. This was not done for any valid reason, but (presumably) to try to manipulate public opinion within China, and create a spurious 'grievance' to use in diplomatic discussions. Such games go on all the time. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} [[Special:Contributions/94.1.223.204|94.1.223.204]] ([[User talk:94.1.223.204|talk]]) 01:36, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::::{{tq|I'm asking how the ''Chinese'' Government would welcome the ''appearance'' of it}} I have answered the original question; please don't hijack this thread to ask a vaguely related question and then bring up unrelated stuff (which was not recent but a year ago, and a storm in a teacup, and your conspiracy theory is not supported by evidence). There are plenty of diplomatic incidents between China and the UK; neither side has a need to manufacture one. If you want to ask a new question, please post it in a new section. Thank you, [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 01:44, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::Telling a user "your tin foil hat is malfunctioning" is offensive, and is by itself a "hijacking" of this section. ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 02:20, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::Incorrect (on both counts). And posting 2 conspiracy theories in 1 thread is a clear sign of a malfunctioning tin foil hat. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 02:21, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::If you love the Chinese government so much, maybe you should have your own "tin foil hat" checked for malfunctions. ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 02:49, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Thanks for proving my point. The CCP killed insane numbers of people through brutality and incompetence. But we should still call out tin foil conspiracy nonsense. The idea that all conspiracies about the "other" must be true, just because we don't like them, is a very very dangerous one. Just like the idea that everyone who points out that some conspiracies about the "other" are false must be an "other". [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 12:07, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::Considering [[Restrictions on geographic data in China]], it seems correct to mention the Chinese Government as a cause. [[Baidu]] and [[Tencent]] have presumably obtained authorization, because they're not foreign organizations. This incidentally functions as protectionism. I tracked the piano thing down to [[Brendan Kavanagh#St. Pancras Station piano dispute]], and I suppose there ''is'' a tenuous connection since it involves the [[UFWD]] and image rights. [[User:Card_Zero|<span style=" background-color:#fffff0; border:1px #995; border-style:dotted solid solid dotted;">&nbsp;Card&nbsp;Zero&nbsp;</span>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Card_Zero|(talk)]] 03:32, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::Google's use of GCJ-02 coordinate data and WGS-84 sattelite images has led to [https://i0.wp.com/www.kronkeling.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Screenshot-2024-09-29-at-12.40.51.png?resize=1024%2C655&ssl=1 weird results] in the past. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 12:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::The Surveying and Mapping Law led to 14 companies being given exclusive rights to map China. All local companies. Google Maps applied and was denied. https://interfax.com/newsroom/top-stories/63636/ https://medium.com/@anastasia.bizyayeva/every-map-of-china-is-wrong-bc2bce145db2 [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 12:27, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:Relations between Google and the Chinese government have been difficult for years. China wants its citizens to see only a censored version of the internet, requiring Google to filter results from its search engine. In case of Street View, the Chinese government is concerned about what their own citizens can see (and I suppose they also want to know who views which streets). Google isn't very eager to comply with all China's request, as that could be quite expensive and bad for their image in less authoritarian states. [[User:PiusImpavidus|PiusImpavidus]] ([[User talk:PiusImpavidus|talk]]) 19:44, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:Why Somalia, Venezuela and Cuba do not have Street View yet? --[[User:40bus|40bus]] ([[User talk:40bus|talk]]) 23:38, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::This question can be answered by chatgpt or similar. Or by reading the Wikipedia articles about those countries. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 01:33, 21 December 2024 (UTC)


= December 21 =
:::Being a fan of Ernie I just use paper clips, see youtube [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE2QegemD-I Have you ever looked at a paper clip?] Staples just aren't the same :) [[User:Dmcq|Dmcq]] ([[User talk:Dmcq|talk]]) 00:13, 20 November 2008 (UTC)


== Britannica ==
== Has anyone ever touched anyone else with a tuxedo from the extended arm of an unbent coat hanger? ==


Why [[Encyclopaedia Britannica]] uses imperial units in its articles, ever for things that are measured in metric in UK such as temperatures, if it is based in UK and read by people in metric countries? --[[User:40bus|40bus]] ([[User talk:40bus|talk]]) 07:47, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
Let me explain. What I'm trying to ask here is if there's a scientific/ psychological organization out there that does seeminglessly pointless and or random/bizarre experiments? There would be a purpose to it. Despite my own pointless, porposeless life (see question), I've noticed some subtle things. One of those things is that -we dont really know ''exactly'' what happens until we do it! Take a pencil and drop it. But before you do, try to picture what will happen. Chances are you didnt see that funny bounce it took. ''Things often dont happen exactly as pictured''. You may say this is pointless, but I say ''all'' knowledge is important. So what would happen if you touched someone from ten feet away with a tuxedo, and not necessarily with an extended hanger? How about that tuxedo dangling from the end of a pipe (both the plumbers kind and the kind you smoke from)? Or stapled to the end of a solidified extension cord from 20 feet away(unplugged of course)? With or without forewarning? What if it had a "Kick Me" sign on it? I doubt this has ever been tried. The point is,- we would ''learn something''. Maybe practical, maybe not. What if you stared at a glass for 16 hours? By yourself? Or painted a box blue and asked people to guess what was in it? What if it was orange? Would there be a pattern to the guesses with different colors? How long would it take someone to ask if there's a chunk of concrete in a grocery store? Now grocery stores dont sell chunks of concrete, but if you had the patience to stand there and eavesdrop indefinitely, well...who knows?
:{{u|40bus}}, it is not based in the UK despite its British sounding name. The Encyclopaedia Britannica has been published in the United States since 1901. That's two years before the first human piloted airplane flight. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 07:57, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
::Why it is not based in the UK? And if it is read and edited by people in metric countries, why many of its articles use imperial units first? It even uses British English spelling. And are there any similar UK-based online encyclopedias? --[[User:40bus|40bus]] ([[User talk:40bus|talk]]) 08:36, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
:::No. Go be bored somewhere else. [[User:Nanonic|Nanonic]] ([[User talk:Nanonic|talk]]) 09:27, 21 December 2024 (UTC)


:::If all else fails, you could try ''asking them''. ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 16:43, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
Sorry I rambled on. Hopefully, you get the picture. I just think that there is value in ''ALL'' questions, and have more to say about this in a future post. But, for now could you please enlighten me to any experiments of this nature. It would be greatly appreciated, and I would find it endlessly fascinating.--[[User:Hey, I&#39;m Just Curious|Hey, I&#39;m Just Curious]] ([[User talk:Hey, I&#39;m Just Curious|talk]]) 01:03, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
::::Can't you do that for me??? [[User:Tamfang|—Tamfang]] ([[User talk:Tamfang|talk]]) 21:47, 29 December 2024 (UTC)


== Webpages ==
:[[Cost-benefit analysis]]. Given a finite supply of time and human labour, only a certain number of activities can be carried out. We tend to choose the ones most likely to offer some sort of valuable return on our investment of time, money, and effort.
:You might be able to get some sort of grant as a [[conceptual art]]ist, however. They're generally paid to waste time. [[User:TenOfAllTrades|TenOfAllTrades]]([[User_talk:TenOfAllTrades|talk]]) 01:16, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
::An experiment usually benefits from having an hypothesis, an experimental group(s) and control group(s). More than zero degrees of freedom are useful in statistical analysis of experimental results. Some of the gambits you describe sound like vintage [[Social psychology]] experiments, like having someone stop at a redlight, then remain stationary when the light turned green, and seeing how long it was before the car immediately behind the experimenter honked, as a function of the sex/age of the drivers, the value of the car, and the socioeconomic status of the neighborhood, or having people stand at varying distances from the subject in an elevator, and recording whether they said anything or changed their position. Or having an experimenter sit outside the library crying and seeing whether people approached, or moved away. But even they went beyond "What would happen if....." [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 07:12, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
::There are television programs which set up strange situations and then record people's reactions. [[Candid Camera]] is one of the older ones. Such programs could be considered as "experiments" along the lines you are suggesting. [[User:Wanderer57|Wanderer57]] ([[User talk:Wanderer57|talk]]) 06:16, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


Are there any web pages from late 1980s and early 1990s that are still in their original address, rather than on Internet Archive? Was it common for a company or person to have website in early 1990s? --[[User:40bus|40bus]] ([[User talk:40bus|talk]]) 07:53, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
We do experiments - mostly - '''not''' to find a specific answer to what happens to a very specific thing under very specific conditions. What we're trying to do is to find some underlying principle that covers a whole range of similar conditions. Hence (for example) we do not attempt to prove Newton's laws of motion by giving a push to every conceivable kind of object at every conceivable speed. A suitably representative sample is plenty. Once we've deduced the underlying principle - we don't need to do any of the infinite number of other possible experiments that will just produce results that will fit the same theory. Since one can only perform just so many experiments in a lifetime, it makes sense to maximise the chances of finding out something amazing and/or useful by carefully picking experiments that are likely to fall outside the range of existing theory. The experiments that you are proposing are of exceedingly low value because it is almost certain that they'll merely confirm what we already know. Obviously we're only "almost" certain - but rather than do some very obvious experiment in order to narrow that already-tiny sliver of doubt, it's much better to pick something 'big' and probe that instead. [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 19:33, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
:For some similar experiments, you could try looking through the [[Ig Nobel Prize]]s [[User:Steewi|Steewi]] ([[User talk:Steewi|talk]]) 23:53, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


:We have a [[List of websites founded before 1995]]. The IN2P3 site from 1992 can still be visited, where you may enjoy seeing the French National Institute for Nuclear Physics and Particle Physics's contact details, a small picture of the building, and five hyperlinks. The article says there were {{tq|2,879 websites established before 1995}}, so no, it wasn't common. [[User:Card_Zero|<span style=" background-color:#fffff0; border:1px #995; border-style:dotted solid solid dotted;">&nbsp;Card&nbsp;Zero&nbsp;</span>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Card_Zero|(talk)]] 09:19, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for the link to the Ig Nobel Prize. This sounds somewhat close to what I was getting at, but I dont think they take it far eneough. Laughing and thinking are two very important qualities to possess when trying to learn something, so I do give them credit for that. Same for shows such as Candid Camera and Trigger Happy TV. But, -they exist for entertainment purposes only. You can try to learn something if you're looking, but that's not thier stated purpose. Incidently, Trigger Happy TV is closer to the kind of ideas I have. But again, even that show's ideas weren't taken ''far eneough''.I believe experiments should be done as extreme as possible. What we need here is scientific grain counters, if you will. Keep doing the mundane, boring, and cumbersome (but perplexly fascinating) and you'll eventually come up with ''something''. For example, after Dom Jolly yelled into his giant cellphone, why not take people's blood pressure? Or see to what degree thier pupils dilated? How about asking if they had the sudden urge to go elsewhere? Not to avoid the scene, but to see if thier mind shifted into changing thier plans? "Why, I was going to go to my buddies house, but suddenly I have the urge to visit my crossdressing uncle..."
::Were there any websites around in 1990? This year feels still relatively recent. And are there any saved TV broadcasts from that time in the web, from any country? --[[User:40bus|40bus]] ([[User talk:40bus|talk]]) 11:47, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Are you just randomly asking questions? [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 12:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Take the effort to read the first sentence of [[List of websites founded before 1995]] and you will have the answer to your question. &nbsp;--[[User talk:Lambiam#top|Lambiam]] 10:41, 22 December 2024 (UTC)


== Did [[Donald Trump]]'s father, ==
Did the weather change? Did they notice if certain colors around them seemed brighter? For that matter- ''did'' colors get brighter? There must be some sort of wavelenghth measurement you can take before and after of, let's say, the red fire hydrant sitting nearby. Did you say "spectrometer"? Why I happen to have one right ''here''! Then check thier physiological reaction, to ''that''!


Fred, know [[Rudy Giuliani]]'s father, who is said to have been a mob contract killer? I'm asking because I've heard rumors somewhere that both Donald and Fred had mob contacts in New York City.[[User:Richard L. Peterson|Rich]] ([[User talk:Richard L. Peterson|talk]]) 22:43, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
Not all my experiments would involve people. Just most of them. People talk, have feelings, and are more fun to communicate with than the fire hydrant. In the absence of people, you could try for example, mixing toothpaste with Einsteinium. Or Lawrencium with fur? How about fur, Lawrencium, toothpaste and Einsteinium in a blender? Since Einsteium and Lawrencium are man made and break down quickly, you could replace them with Technetium and a stick of gum. Then try burning it (''don't'' try this with hydrogen!). The results probably wouldn't be as exciting, but who knows, maybe you'd discover a cure for cancer? Doubtful, but has it ever been tried? What, exactly, would ''happen''?--[[User:Hey, I&#39;m Just Curious|Hey, I&#39;m Just Curious]] ([[User talk:Hey, I&#39;m Just Curious|talk]]) 18:46, 20 November 2008 (UTC)


:"Said to have been"; is there a reliable source that claims this? It has also been said that Donald Trump is a shape shifting lizard.<sup>[https://globalnews.ca/tag/donald-trump-is-a-shape-shifting-lizard/]</sup> Harold Giuliani was at the bottom of the low end of shady dealings in the Italian immigrant community. It seems extremely unlikely that Fred Trump, a high-profile successful real-estate developer from the German immigrant community, would have a reason to meet him. &nbsp;--[[User talk:Lambiam#top|Lambiam]] 10:38, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
== I want to own a real nuclear submarine. ==
:::Well, that's what the OP is asking. You're just repeating the OP's question using different words. --[[User:Viennese Waltz|Viennese Waltz]] 10:52, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::::The OP did not ask whether it was plausible but whether it was true. Even if the mob contract killer story should prove more than randomly created innuendo, there is still nothing to suggest the two fathers ever met. The suggested mob contacts would not make this more likely than two random New Yorkers (like Henri who sometimes ordered pizza and Freddy who sometimes delivered pizza) knowing each other. It is very difficult to prove a negative, but the question implied the OP thought it was at least plausible, which, as I tried to point out, it is not. &nbsp;--[[User talk:Lambiam#top|Lambiam]] 01:09, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::{{small|No insult intended to shape-shifting lizards. [[User:Clarityfiend|Clarityfiend]] ([[User talk:Clarityfiend|talk]]) 10:50, 22 December 2024 (UTC)}}
::(it's easy for you to google that the rumors are out there, Lambiam.[[User:Richard L. Peterson|Rich]] ([[User talk:Richard L. Peterson|talk]]) 18:59, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:::I did not dispute the rumours exist, but IMO they are irrelevant to the question whether the two fathers knew each other, so I ignored them. &nbsp;--[[User talk:Lambiam#top|Lambiam]] 01:09, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:Giuliani gave a eulogy and he probably would have mentioned it if they knew eachother, but it doesn't seem like he did. https://nypost.com/1999/06/30/trump-patriarch-eulogized-as-great-builder/ [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 18:22, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:https://stevevillano.medium.com/the-trumps-an-incestuous-intertwining-with-organized-crime-ab65316c2b48
:[[User:Richard L. Peterson|Rich]] ([[User talk:Richard L. Peterson|talk]]) 19:30, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks for finding this, Polygnotus. But are you sure Rudy would have mentioned it in his eulogy, being possibly embarrassed about his father's occupation? And mentioning an acquaintance with his father would not make Fred seem more illustrious, which eulogies are meant to do. [[User:Richard L. Peterson|Rich]] ([[User talk:Richard L. Peterson|talk]]) 19:03, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:::No, I haven't found definitive proof. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 12:08, 23 December 2024 (UTC)


= December 22 =
Yes, a real one. Ideally ex-mil, don't much care whose. I don't mind if it doesn't have torpedoes or anything like that, since I'd be renovating it anyway. The questions I have are as follows: 1) Is it legal under any circumstances for a civilian to own a nuclear submarine? I assume i'd need to have a license to own and operate a research reactor? 2) Where would I legally purchase fuel for it? 3) Where do I buy a submarine anyway? Russia have any laying around? I don't mind a u-fix-it sub. 4) I want to know how to run a nuclear sub. Anyone have any manuals for them or something?


== Policy related to places ==
Help me achieve my Hagbard Celine fantasy. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/66.158.193.46|66.158.193.46]] ([[User talk:66.158.193.46|talk]]) 06:13, 19 November 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Civilians are not allowed to purchase military equipments like submarine, nuclear submarine is out of question. '''[[User:Otolemur crassicaudatus|<font color="002bb8">Otolemur crassicaudatus</font>]]''' ([[User talk:Otolemur crassicaudatus|talk]]) 06:30, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


Hello,
:: Any way to de-militarize it? Do we have standards for that? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/66.158.193.46|66.158.193.46]] ([[User talk:66.158.193.46|talk]]) 06:34, 19 November 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


I want to add an article for a place in delhi cantonment. However, i am unsure about the relevant Wikipedia policies on this topic. I tried searching on DuckDuckGo to no avail And the results of Wikipedia search gave unrelated things. What are the relevant policies? [[User:KhubsuratInsaan|KhubsuratInsaan]] ([[User talk:KhubsuratInsaan|talk]]) 11:16, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Civilians are not allowed to have a private nuclear reactor either. Have you considered how much a submarine costs? [[User:Graeme Bartlett|Graeme Bartlett]] ([[User talk:Graeme Bartlett|talk]]) 06:36, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
:::Any way the best way if you have a lot of money is to buy a company that makes submarines. [[User:Graeme Bartlett|Graeme Bartlett]] ([[User talk:Graeme Bartlett|talk]]) 06:38, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


:You may find [[Help:Your first article|this guide]] a good starting point. Be sure in particular to study the section on notability. You may also want to look up articles about similar places (if those articles exist) and review them to get a sense of what does and does not go into such an article.
:::I've considered the cost and I have the cash. What if I formed a corporation to operate the reactor? Officially. Are there any other countries without such laws? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/66.158.193.46|66.158.193.46]] ([[User talk:66.158.193.46|talk]]) 06:40, 19 November 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:It looks like you're new to Wikipedia. (Welcome!) You may find it easier to write an article from scratch and get it past article review or new pages patrol if you spend some time here first editing other pages and getting to understand the culture. That's not a strict requirement, just something a lot of people benefit from when they first arrive! -- [[User:Avocado|Avocado]] ([[User talk:Avocado|talk]]) 14:28, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:::I would disagree that it is illegal for 'civilians' to own a nuclear reactor. Some of the organisations that run nuclear reactors now are neither government nor military. However you do have to be a licensed operator, which involves a huge level of certification and monitoring. And lets not forget the amount of insurance you are going to have to carry to operate a civilian nuclear sub. And probably a whole raft of other regulations you are going to have to comply with.
:::Just out of interest, what are you planning on using this sub for? And if your name is [[Ernst Stavro Blofeld|Blofeld]] we don't want to know. [[User:DJ Clayworth|DJ Clayworth]] ([[User talk:DJ Clayworth|talk]]) 15:07, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


::And the place for new editors to ask questions is the [[Wikipedia:Teahouse]] (although we're happy to help here too, especially with references). [[User:Alansplodge|Alansplodge]] ([[User talk:Alansplodge|talk]]) 15:24, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
It is incorrect to say "civilians are not allowed to have....." demilitarized military equipment. Civilians own military airplanes from past wars. They own former U.S. Navy patrol boats. Civilians own tanks, which have been "demilitarized" in some fashion, as by removing the machine guns and the breach block of the cannon. A sub would probably have to have the torpedo tubes welded shut, the deck guns removes, and any ballistic missile tubes removed or welded shut. The World War 1(obviously non-nuclear) "Nautilus" was turned over to civilians for a zany attempt to reach the North Pole in 1931 [http://www.abc.net.au/abccontentsales/s1177213.htm]. Licensing of the reactor would be an issue, as would be ownership and control of the fuel. A fading superpower such as the Former Soviet Union (Russia) welcomes foreign hard currency, and might lease a sub, complete with crew, if the price were right. You could be the Skipper and travel around the world like Captain Nemo. How many million do you have? [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 07:01, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
:::thank you. i will keep this in mind next time i want to ask a question. [[User:KhubsuratInsaan|KhubsuratInsaan]] ([[User talk:KhubsuratInsaan|talk]]) 12:56, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
:You might want to bookmark [http://www.edisposals.com this website]. These guys sell off surplus equipment from the British armed forces. Ships, aircraft and submarines have come up for sale in the past although there don't appear to be any on the website at the moment. --[[User:Richardrj|Richardrj]] [[User talk:Richardrj|<sup>talk </sup>]][[Special:Emailuser/Richardrj|<sup>email</sup>]] 11:54, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
::thank you for the detailed reply ❤️ [[User:KhubsuratInsaan|KhubsuratInsaan]] ([[User talk:KhubsuratInsaan|talk]]) 12:56, 29 December 2024 (UTC)


== Indian city classification ==
And of course, legality and illegalaity vary by country. I presume that most of the above assumes the US. The situation might be different if 66.158 is a wealthy,(say) Moldovan! -- [[User:SGBailey|SGBailey]] ([[User talk:SGBailey|talk]]) 14:26, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
:who.is says he/she is from Tampa, Florida, US. [[Special:Contributions/132.206.22.13|132.206.22.13]] ([[User talk:132.206.22.13|talk]]) 19:25, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


I was looking at [[Classification of Indian cities]]. In tier Y, there are more than 100 cities listed. But in the reference given there are only 88. I even looked what appears to be official website, there's no new circular of new list. [https://doe.gov.in/orders-circulars/32] Are there any other circulars or should I just remove extra cities. Also, as my main purpose to look for a tier classification, was to use it as approximation for urban (Tier X and Y) and rural districts (Tier Z). Is there any other department which does this kind of classification, please let me know. -- [[User:Parnaval|Parnaval]] ([[User talk:Parnaval|talk]]) 17:13, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
We can't give legal advice anyway, so it's not really relevant to us what jurisdiction s/he is in. If this is serious, the services of a good lawyer to go through all the relevant laws and regulations will probably be much cheaper than the submarine itself. --[[User talk:Random832|Random832]] ([[special:contributions/Random832|contribs]]) 19:58, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
:That circular by the [[Ministry of Finance (India)|Department of Expenditure]] indicates that classification of cities depends on the latest census. Entities using the classification after yearly update seemingly are easy to find ( https://7thpaycommissionnews.in/classification-of-indian-cities/), regarding a specific source explicitly mentioning their is an update the department link to look for has to be related to the census. --[[User:Askedonty|Askedonty]] ([[User talk:Askedonty|talk]]) 21:28, 22 December 2024 (UTC)


= December 27 =
==First article on Wikipedia==
No, not the first one created, temporally. I saw on the main page that there is, rather quaintly, an A-Z index of Wikipedia articles. However, it only starts at 0, whereas there have to be articles that start with various symbols: ', -, =, etc. (Also, the index doesn't exactly work... if you click on, say, [[Special:AllPages/CZ|CZ]], when it finishes that category, it goes on to [[Special:AllPages/Ca|Ca]], and not to [[Special:AllPages/Da|Da]].) So what would be the first article on Wikipedia? [[User:Zafiroblue05|zafiroblue05]] | [[User talk:Zafiroblue05|Talk]] 07:07, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


== [[Black Cube]], Melissa Nathan,&U.S. presidential candidates ==
:The [[Special%3AAllPages|first actual article]] is [[!!!]] ([[!!]] is a disambiguation page, [[!]] is a redirect). [[User:FiggyBee|FiggyBee]] ([[User talk:FiggyBee|talk]]) 08:22, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


Black Cube has a wikipedia article, Melissa Nathan is mentioned in the article [[It Ends with Us]]. Both are googleable. My question is if either Black Cube or Melissa Nathan were ever hired to discredit [[John Kerry]] or [[Hillary Clinton]]? I realize that in Melissa Nathan's case, if she had been hired for that, it would probably have been before she formed The Agency Group PR.[[User:Richard L. Peterson|Rich]] ([[User talk:Richard L. Peterson|talk]]) 06:52, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
:: I think that the articles are listed not in alphabetical order but in [[ASCII|asciibetical]] (or possibly unicode-al) order. Hence "punctuation, digits, more punctation, upper case, more punctuation, lower case and then a few more punctuations". -- [[User:SGBailey|SGBailey]] ([[User talk:SGBailey|talk]]) 14:23, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


:The link should have been to [[It Ends with Us (film)|''It Ends with Us'' (film)]]. &nbsp;--[[User talk:Lambiam#top|Lambiam]] 19:16, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
::: In that case, the first article alphabetically is, not surprisingly, [[A]]. --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 17:22, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


== Distance ==
== Griggsville, Missouri? ==


The [[Robert Fiske (actor)]] article claims (without a source) that he was born in [[Griggsville, Missouri]]. I can find no evidence whatever that such a place has ever existed. There is a [[Griggsville, Illinois]], which is about 20 miles northeast of the IL/MO border (which I think is the river, and presumably was in 1889). Was there really a Griggsville in Missouri, or is this a simple mistake? The only substantive author (to the biographical part of the article) is long departed Wikipedia. -- [[User:Finlay McWalter|Finlay McWalter]]'''··–·'''[[User talk:Finlay McWalter|Talk]] 20:12, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
What is the distance between London and Granada and London and Sofia? Does anyone also know flight length times? [[User:Simply south|Simply south]] ([[User talk:Simply south|talk]]) 10:55, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
:I can't find an obit for Fiske in Newspapers.com, and the Findagrave entry [https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/11467/robert-fiske] simply says he was born in Missouri. ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 21:37, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
:[Edit Conflict] I wondered if it might be something to do with the Mississippi changing its course, but it seems not. However, if Griggsville, Illinois is correct, he could be added to that article's '''Notable person''' [''sic''] section, doubling its complement!
:The 'Missouri' inclusion was (as you may have noted) in the article as created in 2005, so at least we know it's not the result of vandalism.
:I notice that the <u>Un</u>reliable sources IMDb, Rotten Tomatoes and the Internet Broadway Database also state Griggsville, Missouri, which may of course have been taken from Wikipedia, and Find a Grave gives merely Missouri. However, The Movie Database does give Griggsville, Illinois. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} [[Special:Contributions/94.1.223.204|94.1.223.204]] ([[User talk:94.1.223.204|talk]]) 21:42, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
::Indications in Ancestry.com are that he was merely born "in Missouri", not a specific city that I've found. Even though the original article writer has been offline for over 9 years, maybe his email still works? ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 21:54, 27 December 2024 (UTC)


:: I'm wondering if there is some circular [[WP:CITOGENESIS]] between ourselves, Findagrave, and IMDb. I too considered the "moving river" hypothesis, but it's much too far away. -- [[User:Finlay McWalter|Finlay McWalter]]'''··–·'''[[User talk:Finlay McWalter|Talk]] 22:42, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
:1600 and 2000km, respectively (assuming we're talking about London in England, Granada in Spain, and Sofia in Bulgaria). Flight times will (obviously) depend on the speed of the aircraft; a [[Boeing 737]] cruises at around 800km/h. If you want to know actual schedules, check out the online booking services of some likely airlines. [[User:FiggyBee|FiggyBee]] ([[User talk:FiggyBee|talk]]) 11:18, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
::: ''[https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=irZmAAAAMAAJ&q=%22griggsville+missouri%22 Who Was Who on Screen]'' (1977) confirms he was born in Griggsville, Missouri. No danger of citogenesis there. The search term "Griggsville, MO" throws up a few non-Fiske results on Google and Google Books, but I can't find precisely where it is. --[[User:Antiquary|Antiquary]] ([[User talk:Antiquary|talk]]) 09:22, 28 December 2024 (UTC) Ah, here we are, it's in [[Pike County, Missouri]] [https://www.ciclt.net/sn/clt/capitolimpact/gw_ziplist.aspx?ClientCode=capitolimpact&State=il&StName=missouri&StFIPS=&FIPS=17149]. --[[User:Antiquary|Antiquary]] ([[User talk:Antiquary|talk]]) 10:00, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
::::Griggsville, IL, is also in [[Pike County, Illinois]] and if you [https://www.unitedstateszipcodes.org/62340/ look up the zip code (62340)] given on that web site you also land in Illinois. The two Pike Counties are direct neighbours, but there's no indication of any common history or even a shift in the state border. --[[User:Wrongfilter|Wrongfilter]] ([[User talk:Wrongfilter|talk]]) 10:15, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::That sounds ominous. Also, the more of my Google and Google Books hits I follow up, the fewer check out. The evidence that this place ever existed outside of Fiske's say-so looks rather slight. [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=DNRMAQAAMAAJ&q=%22griggsville,+mo%22&dq=%22griggsville,+mo%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj5_93SocqKAxUNXkEAHSw2Mzo4ChDoAXoECAUQAg Here] is one cite from 1907, and there are one or two more from the 19th century, but confusion with Griggsville, IL can't be ruled out. --[[User:Antiquary|Antiquary]] ([[User talk:Antiquary|talk]]) 10:46, 28 December 2024 (UTC)


: Thanks everyone. I'll flag the birthplace in the article is questionable (and the whole article as poorly sourced), but I think there's enough uncertainty for me to not "fix" it. And I'll refer to this discussion on the talk page, for the (probably very unlikely event) that some future person cares enough about this rather minor actor to do more thorough research. Thank you. -- [[User:Finlay McWalter|Finlay McWalter]]'''··–·'''[[User talk:Finlay McWalter|Talk]] 08:04, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::But, of course, a plane doesn't always fly straight or at cruising speed, so the actual trip will take longer than simple division would indicate. This tends to be more of a factor for short trips, since a higher percentage of the time is spent in departure and landing patterns, which tend to be in different directions and lower speeds than the main haul. [[User:StuRat|StuRat]] ([[User talk:StuRat|talk]]) 15:06, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


= December 28 =
:::Checking some direct flights, I found one lasting 2:45 hours from London ([[London Stansted Airport|STN]]) to Granada ([[GRX]]), and flights from London ([[London Gatwick Airport|LGW]]) to Sofia ([[Sofia Airport|SOF]]) lasting 5:05 - 5:15 hours. If you are willing to change planes, the upper end of flight duration is open, I guess. ---[[User:Sluzzelin|Sluzzelin]] [[User talk:Sluzzelin|<small>talk</small>]] 16:21, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


== Why do news reporters name the programme they are reporting for? ==
::::The longer flight takes almost twice as long even though it's only 25% further ? I wonder why that would be the case. [[User:StuRat|StuRat]] ([[User talk:StuRat|talk]]) 02:43, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4jRLTPBiDI&t=147s This] is an example by BBC News. ―<span style="font-family:Poppins, Helvetica, Sans-serif;">[[User:Panamitsu|Panamitsu]]</span> [[User_talk:Panamitsu|(talk)]] 05:44, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::You didn't make the mistake of subtracting the arrival time from departure time did you? Such times will usually be listed in local time therefore you won't get an accurate duration if the time zones are different [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] ([[User talk:Nil Einne|talk]]) 10:26, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


:You have linked to a BBC TV program where at 0:40 the presenter introduces "''Our science correspondent [[Pallab Ghosh]]"'' who signs off his report "''Pallab Ghosh, BBC News''". His report includes statements by two experts each identified by name and affiliation. The video typifies the high standard of jounalism where BBC emphasize distinction between source and editorial content. Incidentally, a good BBC TV reporter tends to become a [[Celebrity|"household name"]] (the likes of [[Clive Myrie]], [[Fiona Bruce]], [[Sophie Raworth]], [[Reeta Chakrabarti]], [[Steve Rosenberg]], Michael Buchanan and more). <small>Edit: I apologise to Pallab Ghosh for initially misspelling his name and thank Antiquary for correcting me.</small> [[User:Philvoids|Philvoids]] ([[User talk:Philvoids|talk]]) 11:19, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::I didn't, no, but that's probably what Sluz did, and I used his times. So, if we subtract a couple hours from the longer trip to get 3:00 - 3:15 hours, and leave the shorter trip as is, then those times make sense. [[User:StuRat|StuRat]] ([[User talk:StuRat|talk]]) 18:29, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
::[[Pallab Ghosh]], but I'm sure he's used to it. --[[User:Antiquary|Antiquary]] ([[User talk:Antiquary|talk]]) 11:29, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
::As I understand the question, it is not why reporters identify <u>themselves</u>, but why for instance Ghosh does not sign off by simply saying "''Pallab Ghosh''", full stop. &nbsp;--[[User talk:Lambiam#top|Lambiam]] 10:29, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
:::It's a standard practice, which might even be in their contracts. ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 11:55, 31 December 2024 (UTC)


== Usa free fall ==
== Navigation lights ==


Does the fact that aeroplane/ship navigation lights are green and red cause problems for pilots who are red-green colour blind? How do they deal with that? Can they even become pilots? ―<span style="font-family:Poppins, Helvetica, Sans-serif;">[[User:Panamitsu|Panamitsu]]</span> [[User_talk:Panamitsu|(talk)]] 22:49, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
Soapboxing removed. The RefDesk is for asking questions, not posting jingoistic rants. [[User:Matt Deres|Matt Deres]] ([[User talk:Matt Deres|talk]]) 21:16, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


:I couldn't be a pilot because of my red-green colour blindness, but people with a mild version can apparently - [https://www.caa.co.uk/aeromedical-examiners/medical-standards/pilots/medical-conditions/visual/colour-vision-guidance-material-gm/ this] is a link to the UK's Civil Aviation Authority's guidance on colour vision requirements. [[User:Mikenorton|Mikenorton]] ([[User talk:Mikenorton|talk]]) 23:25, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
== PayPal ==
::How fascinating. Thanks. ―<span style="font-family:Poppins, Helvetica, Sans-serif;">[[User:Panamitsu|Panamitsu]]</span> [[User_talk:Panamitsu|(talk)]] 00:21, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
:Similarly, red-green colourblind people may not be able to become helmsmen.
:You might think it would have been more convenient to make those lights red and cyan, as far fewer people are red-blue colourblind, but when navigation lights on ships were introduced, bright blueish lights couldn't be made. That only became possible with [[gas discharge lamp]]s. Traffic lights and railway signals these days (often using [[LED]]s) use a slightly blueish green, so that most colourblind people can see the difference between red and green. [[User:PiusImpavidus|PiusImpavidus]] ([[User talk:PiusImpavidus|talk]]) 11:55, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::They could have agreed (and still could agree) on assigning distinct flashing patterns, like •••'''——''' and '''—'''••'''—'''•&nbsp;. &nbsp;--[[User talk:Lambiam#top|Lambiam]] 20:48, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::Wouldn't that be a problem because the sky/ocean is blue? I understand that the lights are used at night so it shouldn't be too much of a problem. ―<span style="font-family:Poppins, Helvetica, Sans-serif;">[[User:Panamitsu|Panamitsu]]</span> [[User_talk:Panamitsu|(talk)]] 22:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
:::It would involve more complex lighting circuits/equipment and massive world-wide retrofitting, which (I suggest) would be prohibitively expensive, to solve a relatively minor 'problem' more easily answered by simply not employing colour-blind people in the relevant positions. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} [[Special:Contributions/94.1.223.204|94.1.223.204]] ([[User talk:94.1.223.204|talk]]) 13:12, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
:When I answered telephones and sold passenger tickets for Eurostar I had to pass an [[Ishihara test]], the same as [[signalmen]] and [[train drivers]]. [[User:DuncanHill|DuncanHill]] ([[User talk:DuncanHill|talk]]) 21:27, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::Depending on the signalling system, train drivers may also have to discriminate red from yellow/amber. This is less important for road users. And states of tracks and signals are colour-coded on the computer monitors of signalmen, but it should only take a simple software update to accommodate colourblind signalmen. (Yes, there're still some old-fashioned signal boxes in some countries; I've passed the one at [[Severn Bridge Junction]] on my way to Wales.) I don't see the objection against colourblind ticket sellers. [[User:PiusImpavidus|PiusImpavidus]] ([[User talk:PiusImpavidus|talk]]) 11:58, 31 December 2024 (UTC)


= December 29 =
I paid for something on eBay through PayPal with my credit card, and eBay says the payment went through, but my credit account doesn't say anything has been added to it. How long does it normally take for PayPal stuff to go through?--[[User:Newitems!|Newitems!]] ([[User talk:Newitems!|talk]]) 19:23, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
:The bank that your credit card is issued from may only process transactions in "batches". I know that, for example, when I make a deposit to my bank, I get a friendly warning on the ATM screen that lets me know that the transaction may take 24 hours to be processed. There may be similar lags on the credit system as well... --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 19:29, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
::I find that if I make a purchase on my bank debit card I can see it appear on my online banking statement within a few minutes. Purchases made on my credit card (same bank, same online banking interface) sometimes take a day or more to become visible. ~ <font color="#228b22">[[User:Mazca|'''m'''a'''z'''c'''a''']]</font> <sup>[[User_talk:Mazca|'''t''']]|[[Special:Contributions/Mazca|'''c''']]</sup> 20:07, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


== Domains ==
== Would person from [[Seloncourt]] France possibly be considered Swiss? ==


Are Eritrea's .er and Belarus's .by ever used in domain hacks? .er could be used in shortcut to Blogger, blogg.er, like goo.gl and youtu.be, and .by could be used in domains such as drive.by and in Nordic place namesmas ''by'' means "village" in Swedish and "city" in Norwegian and Danish. And can South Africa's .za and India's .in be used directly after the main part, such as in piz.za and drive.in? Also, can .pl, .cz, .sk and .hu addresses contain diacritics, such as gdańsk.pl, česko.cz, košice.sk and magyarország.hu? --[[User:40bus|40bus]] ([[User talk:40bus|talk]]) 10:10, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
Okay, I've gotten some great feedback here (and even helped out some with an update) with mysteries surrounding genealogical research, so I have one other one for you.


:See [[URL#Internationalized URL]]. [[User:PiusImpavidus|PiusImpavidus]] ([[User talk:PiusImpavidus|talk]]) 11:30, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
One ancestor emigrated from Seloncourt, France. The confusing part is, he's listed as being from Switzerland in the 1880 and 1900 census. And, the place name is "Salcourt." Now, if he's just giving info a cnesus taker can mishear Selconcourt as Salcourt (if he has a thicker accent), but France as Switzerland?
:Plusimpavidus has only answered the last sentencee.
:The answer to the first part is entirely dependent on the policy of the controller of the ccTLD in question, and that controller may or may not publish a policy. Technically, of course they could be used: the government of Tonga sells [[.to]] domains to any interested party, as I presume you know.
:According to our article [[.by]] {{tq|The Operations and Analysis Centre under the President of the Republic of Belarus allows for anyone (not only for those who reside in Belarus) to register a second level domain such as something.by}}, and it also says {{tq|he .by code is used for domain hack by institutions from the German state of Bavaria (German: Bayern), such as bayern.by, the Bavarian Tourism Agency. Since "by" means "town" or "city" in Norwegian, it's also used by some Norwegian newspapers, such as osl.by for an Oslo newspaper, and trd.by for a Trondheim newspaper}}, however, neither of these statements appear to be sourced. When I just tried it, trd.by seems to redirect to a Norwegian casino site.
:Our articles [[.er]] and [[.za]] say nothing about whether the ccTLDs are available to anybody outside Eritrea and South Africa respectively. [[.in]] doesn't explicitly address the question, but in talking about the use of subdomains it repeats "in India" several times. [[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 20:38, 29 December 2024 (UTC)


== Colored asphalt markings ==
In your article, i found some clues - it's only a few miles from the Swiss border; very few, in fact. It wasn't even considered part of France till reabsorbed a couple decades before he came. It was Lutheran, whereas I think of most of France as Catholic. Perhaps he didn't identify himself with France, but yet on his deth certificate, it says France because they want specifics there?


What's the purpose of [https://imgur.com/a/jkQ4i40 such blue, green, pink marks] on street grounds? I've seen them in multiple places in [[Warsaw]] (typically in non-traffic places, such as sidewalks) where they've stayed for several months or even years without being erased. From what I've read, those marks can be made for some roadworks, but I'm not sure. [[User:Brandmeister|Brandmeister]]<sup>[[User talk:Brandmeister|talk]]</sup> 20:06, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
Thanks, the people on here are great.[[User:DTF955|Somebody or his brother]] ([[User talk:DTF955|talk]]) 20:44, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


:I've seen them used for several purposes, mostly for marking the course of some underground pipe or cable, but also for marking a distance such as 500m from a given spot. In the first case, there is a sequence of similar markings, not too far apart from each other. In the second case the marking is usually accompanied by a number or some code. &nbsp;--[[User talk:Lambiam#top|Lambiam]] 20:55, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
:The modern boundaries of France were not fixed until the 1940's, post World War II, but our article on [[Seloncourt]] notes that it has been an integral part of France since 1793. However, the confusion may arise as there is also a [[Saicourt]] in Switzerland, so my best guess is that the "L" in Salcourt is really an "i" and he really WAS from switzerland. --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 23:08, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
::See [[utility location]]. --[[Special:Contributions/142.112.149.206|142.112.149.206]] ([[User talk:142.112.149.206|talk]]) 22:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::The other option is that he lived in a rural area on the Swiss side of the border, but since there is no town on that side, and the only town he could identify with was "Seloncourt", but he still identified as definitely Swiss.
::Or maybe he actually was born Swiss, but lived in Seloncourt. It was frequent to cross the border to live on the other side for the locals (especially since Switzerland citizen would not be considered spies, so the French wouldn't have a problem). I am also from the Swiss border, and the people crossing the border on a regular basis to live on either side is quite significant, they feel part of the same community. This was so in my youth long before Switzerland was thinking of joing the [[Schengen treaty]]. --[[User:Lgriot|Lgriot]] ([[User talk:Lgriot|talk]]) 06:37, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
:::Your ancestor may have been 'from' both France and Switzerland - for instance, born in one and resident in the other, or even domiciled in both (at different times or at the same time). Generally speaking, in the 19th century there was less certainty in people's minds about nationality than there is now, especially in such border regions, and it's possible (indeed, likely) that this man never held a passport. He may have been able to be a Frenchman when it suited him and a Swiss at other times. [[User:Strawless|Strawless]] ([[User talk:Strawless|talk]]) 17:31, 20 November 2008 (UTC)


:In my experience (UK) they appear in preparation for invasive ground works, most recently in our road prior to the installation of the third set of broadband cables under our pavement. Apparently, existing suppliers and their customers get sniffy if new upstart suppliers not only add their own cables, but put a shovel through the existing cables in the process! Different colours may denote gas, water and telecommunication lines.
== Laundry at home - rinsing with cold or warm water ==
:There is also an occasional rash of markings that outline potholes; whether this is done to guide the repairers of potholes, or as a placebo to pacify local road users, is not always clear. It is possible that the process accompanies the calculation of a cost for the work; the expenditure may not be forthcoming.{{cn}} <span class="nowrap">[[User:Verbarson|--&nbsp;Verbarson&nbsp;]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Verbarson|talk]]</sup><sub>[[Special:Contributions/Verbarson|edits]]</sub></span> 21:24, 29 December 2024 (UTC)


= January 1 =
Dear RefDeskers, I come to you yet again for guidance on life's most important matters. It had so happened recently that I have obtained through purchase a top-loaded washing machine [http://sklep.lobo.pl/go/_info/?id=2160 like the one shown here]. This model, just for clarity, has a larger rotating drum for your washing and rinsing, and a smaller for spinning. Water has to be supplied from the shower or a hose, and is drained via another hose (we take water from the shower and empty the waste bath also to our shower).

Anyhow, today as I was doing the laundry (yes, I am that kind of boyfriend) we had a discussion whether one should use warm or cold water for rinsing. I am for using cold water, primarily because my old wardrobe-sized commie washing machine used cold water, and the missis is for using warmer water because it doesn't hurt the hands as much.

So, the question is - which one is better to rinse laundry, warm water (call it room temperature warm) or cold water (cold like tap cold). Thanks for your input, answers from specialists will be appreciated. Cheers, [[User:Ouro|Ouro]] <small>([[User_talk:Ouro|blah blah]])</small> 21:32, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
:Better, what, for the clothes? Because better for your energy bill is rinsing and washing everything in cold. --[[User:Moni3|Moni3]] ([[User talk:Moni3|talk]]) 21:38, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
::I wash all my laundry in cold water as it does a better job preventing bleeding, especially bright reds (yes, I throw my colors in with my whites). [[User:Useight|Useight]] ([[User talk:Useight|talk]]) 22:13, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
:::(EC with above) However, warm water better dissolves things than does cold water. This is both good and bad. It is good because dirt and soap will be rinsed away more effectively; it is bad because so won't dyes and other material from the clothes. Thus, using warm water makes your clothes cleaner on average, but also reduces the life of your clothes. Such is the trade-off, and the debate between which is "better" for your clothes is probably never ending... --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 22:15, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
::::If you're willing to spend more for enzyme-based laundry soap, cold water will get your clothes as clean as traditional soap and warm water. --[[User:Carnildo|Carnildo]] ([[User talk:Carnildo|talk]]) 22:19, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
:I don't really care about my bills that much - my skin and comfort are more important. We use liquid detergent that can be used both for hand washing and machine washing, and I usually separate clothes as follows: socks+undies, t-shirts, pants, hoodies+sweaters, not by colours, because most of my stuff is usually black to begin with (althouth I used to split my clothes in two groups: black and colour)). From your answers so far I am almost willing to start rinsing my clothes with warmer water. Will wait for more though, so far thanks, friends! --[[User:Ouro|Ouro]] <small>([[User_talk:Ouro|blah blah]])</small> 22:51, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
*Just a comment - twin-tubs (which is what your type of washing machine is called in British English) are great, they clean much better than automatics. I didn't know one could still get them though. [[User:DuncanHill|DuncanHill]] ([[User talk:DuncanHill|talk]]) 23:00, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
::They're a cheap and efficient way to do your laundry, and are readily available here. For ours we paid the equivalent of around EUR 90. --[[User:Ouro|Ouro]] <small>([[User_talk:Ouro|blah blah]])</small> 06:54, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
:::€90? New? [[User:DuncanHill|DuncanHill]] ([[User talk:DuncanHill|talk]]) 22:46, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

==TV adverts with mimed voices==
I often see ads where a person is saying something, but it’s obviously, and I mean ''really'' obviously, not their own voice. More than that, often the voice is quite noticeably out of synch with the lip movement - not by a whole second or anything, but still enough to be noticeable. I see this most often with ads for women’s products (hair, beauty, etc). These days, with all the high-tech stuff they have, one would have thought that synchronising a person’s voice to another person’s mouth (or even their own mouth) would be a piece of cake. But no. I’ve often wondered what they hope to achieve by such shoddy production, or do they assume women wouldn’t notice, or if they do notice, they wouldn’t care? Does this happen in other countries, or is it merely a manifestion of the Australian "she'll be right, mate" attitude? I hope that doesn’t come across as a rant; I am genuinely intrigued. -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 23:09, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
:It is widespread in the Mother Country too. If I had asked the question it would certainly have come across as a rant! [[User:DuncanHill|DuncanHill]] ([[User talk:DuncanHill|talk]]) 23:11, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
::I haven't noticed in the States. At least not in the Modern Era, as it were (defined as whenever it was that they started using CGI that you couldn't tell was CGI).
::I've sometimes wondered what it would be like if you could take just an everyday commercial, chosen at random, and show it to audiences from 1975. I bet they'd be blown away, want to nominate it for all sorts of awards. Granted there were a few standouts from that era ("Ski Bandini Mountain!") but for the most part this is an arena in which we've made huge progress, for whatever that's worth. --[[User:Trovatore|Trovatore]] ([[User talk:Trovatore|talk]]) 23:27, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
:::As far as I can remember 1975, almost everything was better than it is today. We didn't watch much ITV though, so I probably couldn't comment on the adverts. [[User:DuncanHill|DuncanHill]] ([[User talk:DuncanHill|talk]]) 01:37, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
:Personally, I'm shocked that marketing people think we're more convinced by a badly-dubbed Australian accent than an foreign (ie, American) accent, and even more shocked that they're ''right'' - if market research didn't show a benefit to dubbing, they wouldn't do it! [[User:FiggyBee|FiggyBee]] ([[User talk:FiggyBee|talk]]) 23:30, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
::There is a Cheerios commercial with a British couple, which uses the actors' voices in Canada, but is extremely badly dubbed with American voices on American channels. It's really annoying. I guess they assume Americans won't buy hoity-toity British Cheerios? [[User:Adam Bishop|Adam Bishop]] ([[User talk:Adam Bishop|talk]]) 00:48, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
:::I don't think I've noticed that one. I do remember that ''[[Mad Max]]'' was dubbed for American distribution (though Mel Gibson did his own dubbing) because the distributors claimed Americans couldn't understand the Australian accents. <font family="Arial">[[User:NurseryRhyme|<span style="color:dark blue">Little Red Riding Hood</span>]]''[[User talk:NurseryRhyme|<span style="color:dark blue">talk</span>]]''</font> 00:54, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
::::But at the same time they use actors with noticeable accents so they stand out, such as [[Frederik de Groot]]. And [[Arnold Schwarzenegger|Arnold Strong]]'s voice was dubbed in [[Hercules in New York]] because of his accent.

:I'd always assumed it was because they were using the same video with the audio in different languages (sometimes the dubbing clearly isn't even the same words). I hadn't realised they did it just for accents, but I guess it make sense - you want people concentrating on the product, not the accent. --[[User:Tango|Tango]] ([[User talk:Tango|talk]]) 02:05, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

::Some very famous films were badly dubbed, and not for obvious reasons. [[Sergio Leone]]'s "man with no name" trilogy of Spagetti Westerns, for example, were shot "silent" with all dialog added in post production. In [[The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly]], for example, the three main characters are all played by Americans ([[Clint Eastwood]], [[Lee Van Cleef]], and [[Eli Wallach]]). However the dubbing was so bad, for Wallach in particular, that you'd swear it was another actor dubbing his lines. It wasn't; it was Wallach's own voice, but it was badly done. --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 02:35, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

::: I gather that was common practice in Italian cinema at the time. —[[User:Tamfang|Tamfang]] ([[User talk:Tamfang|talk]]) 02:32, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

::::It was practical for most films shot for the European market. It was assumed that most films would be done in multiple language versions (Italian, English, French, Spanish, German, etc.) and since none of those markets would likely dominate, it made little economic sense to film in any one particular language. In many films, the actors aren't even "speaking" the same language; they spoke their native languages (like one actor would deliver his lines in German and another in Italian, etc.), however since their lines aren't being recorded live, it made little difference. The cost of shooting "live sound" is quite high; since there were so many versions of the film being dubbed anyways, it made much more sense to just shoot silent and overdub later into all of the various languages as needed. When Leone brought the American actors like Eastwood and Van Cleef to Europe to shoot his Trilogy, they found his method of shooting silent and overdubbing later to be quite "weird" as most American films utilized live sound; and only did minor overdubbs later to correct errors. There was some tension over whether or not to use the actors themselves to do their own lines; Eastwood was particularly adamant in Fistful of Dollars, for example, that he do his own lines in the sound studio. This perplexed Leone, as given the standard methods for shooting films in Europe, it made little difference WHO spoke the lines. Eastwood was endulged however, as the films were planned for an American as well as European release, and he was a well known star in America; if it wasn't his voice it would have likely been noticed. --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 03:54, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

::That makes sense, Tango. And yet, women's products ads in Australia are often the original US ad, with the original US voice. We have no difficulty in understanding them, because they're usually spoken in, if anything, an ''over''-enunciated way like [[Leeza Gibbons]] does, but I do have some difficulty in understanding why an ad obviously created for the US market is used without any voice changes in other countries. The relatability angle appears to be less of an issue with women's products than with men's products. But other ads use home-grown actors and voices, but clearly sometimes the mouth and the voice are not from the same people. -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 02:40, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
:::Maybe not all models are [[Spokesmodel|spokesmodels]] and need dubbing, is one suggestion. Does that mean the blonde saying [[Jetstar Airways|Jepstar]] with her lips, actually is? I thhought I was seeing things. Then again, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_(person)#Body_part_models body parts] aren't always their own either. [[User:Julia Rossi|Julia Rossi]] ([[User talk:Julia Rossi|talk]]) 07:14, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
:::I've always figured they use the original voice if we're supposed to know who she is, and dub it if it's just an anonymous model, Jack. [[User:FiggyBee|FiggyBee]] ([[User talk:FiggyBee|talk]]) 07:43, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
::::I have no issue with dubbing, if that's what they decide to do. It's just the lack of professionalism in the way they they do it that mystifies me. If Milli Vanilli had employed this standard, they would have been exposed on Day 1. -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 08:13, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
:::::Re Milli Vanilli; it's ''much'' easier to mime to an existing soundtrack than to dub to existing vision. [[User:FiggyBee|FiggyBee]] ([[User talk:FiggyBee|talk]]) 09:27, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

In the UK it's common on a lot of adverts that are used across Europe - so the original advert may not have an English-speaker hence the different mouth shaping to the voice. I think this is done to reduce advertising costs for companies. I find it very annoying, but not as annoying as changing the name of Marathon chocolate bars to Snickers, or Jif cleaning products to Cif to appease a pan-European market!! --[[User:KizzyB|KizzyB]] ([[User talk:KizzyB|talk]]) 10:39, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

:This is purely anecdotal, but some years ago I was speaking to a marketing manager for a large UK manufacturing company, specifically regarding the men's hair colouring product, Just for Men. There was a commercial running at the time which suffered from exactly this phenomenon - a clearly US advert badly re-dubbed to give the actors plummy English accents. Anyway, this marketing man claimed that this was a well used advertising technique. The advert is annoying, as already stated, and is therefore memorable. The product already appears successful in another country and when we see this badly executed re-hash of an existing advert we think: "Cheapskate advertisers couldn't be bothered to make a new ad, dang and blast 'em" - but we place the blame squarely on the ad men and tend to trust the product. Don't know what others will make of this, but it seemed to make sense at the time. This conversation was ten years ago and I still remember the name of the product. [[User:Anonymous Bob|Anonymous Bob]] ([[User talk:Anonymous Bob|talk]]) 12:56, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

::Ah, so you're saying they ''deliberately'' do it this way to make pernickety people like me notice them? In a perverse sort of way, that actually makes some sense. They have all the advantages of modern technology at their disposal, but they choose not to use them because seamless ads that would just wash over people with little chance of retention is the very thing they ''don't'' want. Well, obviously their dastardly plot is working. Trouble is, I'm never going to buy those products anyway. If I were in the market, I might be swayed by a more sophisticated way of making me notice them. But these bottom drawer tactics actually ''decrease'' whatever small chance I might have of buying the products. I hope you're reading this, marketers. -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 13:23, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

:::I suppose it's the difference between an ad designed to enhance desire for the product (increase the market size), and one designed to enhance product recognition (increase the market share). An annoying ad isn't going to make you want to dye your hair if you didn't want to already, but it *might* make you pick that brand out when you're standing in front of the hair dye display in the supermarket. [[User:FiggyBee|FiggyBee]] ([[User talk:FiggyBee|talk]]) 13:40, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

:I remember c.1996 watching an episode of ''[[Friends]]'' in Ireland. In the ad break, [[Jennifer Aniston]] came on advertising something (shampoo?) I found the American accent very jarring in the context, even though I'd just spent c.15 minutes listening to American accents. [[User:Jnestorius|jnestorius]]<sup>([[User talk:Jnestorius|talk]])</sup> 14:55, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

=== Is bad advertising the new "good" ? ===

It seems that the more annoying the ad, the better it does, in the case of badly dubbed ads, ads which don't even try to sell the product ("I'm a PC !"), and the headache producing "HEAD ON !" ads. So, would an ad featuring a dog defecating on the product be the most successful yet ? [[User:StuRat|StuRat]] ([[User talk:StuRat|talk]]) 02:39, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

In the age of information highway, i wonder if its really important to showcase the product as somehow the viewers know it whether its on tv or as a hoarding, its aabout the strategy of conveing with a touch of mystery that evokes curiosity of the viewers to know what is it really about man.[[User:Vikram79|Vikram79]] ([[User talk:Vikram79|talk]]) 18:11, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
I have written to companies before and said their ad was so bad, I wouldn't buy the product.I got form letter replies saying everyone else loved them.Still,I felt better for venting my spleen.[[User:Hotclaws**==|hotclaws]] 19:30, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

= November 20 =

== American Expat Tax Refund upon Leaving the UK ==

I'm an American expat who has been living and working in the UK for several years. I shortly plan to leave the country and have heard that it is possible for non-UK citizens to get their income taxes refunded when they leave. However, I have not been able to find any useful information on the government tax website. Does anyone out there know if this is true? If so, where does one go to begin the refund process.

Thank you for any help,

--[[User:Wellington grey|Wellington grey]] ([[User talk:Wellington grey|talk]]) 07:11, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
:It's complicated and you're not going to get a definitive answer to your particular circumstances from anyone on this desk. You really need to speak to an accountant. Get a recommendation if possible, or look one up in the Yellow Pages (they must hold a recognised accountancy qualification such as ICAEW or ACCA). The first thing you need to do is establish your residency status in the UK, which will determine your liability to tax. And in fact there is plenty of information on the HMRC website. Look at [http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/incometax/tax-arrive-uk.htm this page] and [http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/faqs_general.htm this one] for starters. --[[User:Richardrj|Richardrj]] [[User talk:Richardrj|<sup>talk </sup>]][[Special:Emailuser/Richardrj|<sup>email</sup>]] 10:23, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

:It's certainly possible. I managed something similar when I moved from the UK to Canada, and it hinged on the different definitions of being 'resident' for tax purposes in the two countries. Unfortunately this time of year is not the best to do this, as the UK will almost certainly consider you have been 'resident' for this year if you are moving now. However I may be wrong, and things may have changed, and the US is different from Canada, so you should absolutely consult a tax accountant with international experience. And check it at both ends, as you might be able to persuade the US that you are not resident for a tax year. [[User:DJ Clayworth|DJ Clayworth]] ([[User talk:DJ Clayworth|talk]]) 20:59, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

== Will my sister grow taller than me? ==

I'm 16 and my little sister is almost 13. I'm 5'6" and my sister is 5'3" and still growing. Our parents are average height, our mum is 5'4" and our dad is 5'10" and a half. I started puberty earlier than my sister and I was 5'3" by the time I was 11 and a half. The thing I noticed lately is that my sisters hips are level with mine, and I don't have short legs by any means. She has grown 3 inches in the past year, will she end up taller than I am? --[[Special:Contributions/124.254.77.148|124.254.77.148]] ([[User talk:124.254.77.148|talk]]) 12:51, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

:Height is determined by a variety of things so it's not a set thing but i've heard that a good guide is: Take the average height of your parents and for a boy add 6-12cm and for a girl minus 6-12cm. Of course any such measurement is very crude and probably not that reliable. By the by I was about 5'7/8 when i was 16 and ended up at 6'2. [[Special:Contributions/194.221.133.226|194.221.133.226]] ([[User talk:194.221.133.226|talk]]) 13:02, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

::There's no real way to tell. Growth patterns are of course genetic, but like the difference between "weather" and "climate", there is a big difference between genetic trends in families and the specific manifestation of those trends in isolated cases. At any point your sister may stop growing, or may grow right past you. As an anecdotal example; in the 8th grade I was the tallest person in my class, however I stopped growing at that age, and all my classmates passed me. My brother, on the other hand, was always shorter than I was at his age (i.e. he was shorter at 12 than I had been at 12, etc.) which continued until I went away to college. He grew 6 inches in one year, thus passing my height while I was away. Very disconcerting. Since he was 16 he has been taller than I am, and he really didn't stop growing until he was 18 or 19. Totally different growth patterns, though we both come from the same gene pool... --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 13:17, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

:::Same thing with me. As a child, I was always the tallest or second-tallest kid in my class, towering over both boys and girls. I also appeared older for my age because of it. Everyone thought for sure I would end up super-tall and well, I'm lucky to be over five feet. --[[User:Crackthewhip775|Crackthewhip775]] ([[User talk:Crackthewhip775|talk]]) 14:46, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
::::My experience was less dramatic - at school I was generally taller than most, but not exceptionally tall. I topped out at 6'2", which I think you'll agree is still taller than most but not exceptionally tall! Both me and my brother ended up exactly the same height but my parents were 5'10" and 5'6", so we gained a good four inches on my dad - perhaps due to better nutrition growing up. ~ <font color="#228b22">[[User:Mazca|'''m'''a'''z'''c'''a''']]</font> <sup>[[User_talk:Mazca|'''t''']]|[[Special:Contributions/Mazca|'''c''']]</sup> 18:00, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
:::::Nutrition can certainly have a significant effect on height, it's true. --[[User:Tango|Tango]] ([[User talk:Tango|talk]]) 18:32, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
::::::My friend's brother was shorter than almost all the kids in his class until he was 13, but now he's 5' 11" so... [[User:Tezkag72|Tezkag72]] ([[User talk:Tezkag72|talk]]) 22:37, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

:Indeed we can't be definitive about this. But there are some broad-brush averages that give some insight. According to [[Growth_spurt#Conclusion]], boys finish gaining height at age 18 and girls at 15. So both you and your sister have two more years of growth. But girls go through this spurt in less time - so the rate they grow in that final spurt is faster so she stands a chance of catching you up. Conclusion: Probably, you'll probably stay ahead of her - but probably it'll probably be closer than it is right now...probably. [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 00:51, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
::Steve, I think the OP is a girl. [[User:Darkspots|Darkspots]] ([[User talk:Darkspots|talk]]) 01:42, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
::: They let girls in here? How are we gonna talk about — you know? —[[User:Tamfang|Tamfang]] ([[User talk:Tamfang|talk]]) 02:38, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
::::Stuff? [[User:Darkspots|Darkspots]] ([[User talk:Darkspots|talk]]) 02:42, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

:: I gained an inch or two after 18, if memory serves after thirty years. —[[User:Tamfang|Tamfang]] ([[User talk:Tamfang|talk]]) 02:59, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

:::Bah! Every guy says that. [[User:CambridgeBayWeather|CambridgeBayWeather]] [[User_talk:CambridgeBayWeather|Have a gorilla]] 07:36, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

:::You may have misread the question. The OP was asking about height not your waist. (Resisting the other jokes in deference to the OP) [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] ([[User talk:Nil Einne|talk]]) 10:10, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

:::: If I meant my waist, I wouldna said "inch". —[[User:Tamfang|Tamfang]] ([[User talk:Tamfang|talk]]) 20:45, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

===Identify the sex of someone by their words===
A comment from Darkspots above was interesting. I read the OPs question and based on no evidence assumed it was a boy asking the question. Yet Darkspots thought the OP was a girl. On re-reading I think Darkspot was right, I think the word 'hips' is what swung it for me on the second-read. Anyhoo on with my question - is it possible to decipher someone's sex based purely on reading, say, a paragraph of their writing? I'm not thinking about ones where they explicitly refer to their gender, but more like the above question where no firm reference is made either way. [[Special:Contributions/194.221.133.226|194.221.133.226]] ([[User talk:194.221.133.226|talk]]) 09:13, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
:That's what [http://bookblog.net/gender/analysis.php this] site claims to do- it's worked very well on the samples I tested it with. [[Special:Contributions/72.200.101.17|72.200.101.17]] ([[User talk:72.200.101.17|talk]]) 09:41, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
:If you're talking about the question I think you're talking about, I think the OP was female since the question makes more sense that way (everyone knows men are generally taller than women, so the OP would probably have mentioned that if they were male). I think from one paragraph of randomly chosen text, it's going to be very difficult. You can make an educated guess, but it's going to be very unreliable. With more text, it becomes easier, but it's still far from certain. There was a user on another site I used to frequent that I know was female (I was in regular email contact with her and knew her fairly well), but I would frequently forget that when reading what she wrote. There was something about her writing style that made it seem like she was male (this may have been partly intentional, she didn't like people on site knowing her gender [although it was far from a well kept secret], even to the extent of asking people to refer to her as "it" rather than "he" or "she"). I can't consciously say what it was about her writing, but there was definitely something. --[[User:Tango|Tango]] ([[User talk:Tango|talk]]) 10:36, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
::She's a girl because she entered puberty earlier than her sister. Boys enter puberty later than girls. Our article on [[puberty]] gives very wide ranges of ages, but generally girls begin puberty at 11-12 and boys at 13-14, in western countries. [[User:Darkspots|Darkspots]] ([[User talk:Darkspots|talk]]) 10:44, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

::I would find it unusual for a boy to refer to his [[hips]] in any way at all. --[[User:TotoBaggins|Sean]] 13:39, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
:::OP here, I'm a girl which you probably would have guessed had I not forgotten to log in. Haha. But thank you all for your imput and sorry for confusing you. ;) --[[User:Candy-Panda|Candy-Panda]] ([[User talk:Candy-Panda|talk]]) 13:48, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
::::Thanks for clarifying! --[[User:Tango|Tango]] ([[User talk:Tango|talk]]) 13:51, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
:::Really? Just because men have smaller hips doesn't mean they won't occasionally have need to talk about them. --[[User:Tango|Tango]] ([[User talk:Tango|talk]]) 13:51, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

::::Obviously not, but I don't think we'd use hips as a measuring device. For guys, I'd expect shoulders, eyes, and top of head heights to be used. Er, among other things. Women are (often) preoccupied with their hips because that's one of the measurements they need for buying clothes. A guy might complain about his ''waist'' getting too wide - or his gut - but he's largely indifferent to his hips. [[User:Matt Deres|Matt Deres]] ([[User talk:Matt Deres|talk]]) 14:21, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
:::::Measuring around your hips, no, but the OP was talking about the height of her hips (as a measure of leg length). The standard measure of a man's leg length is the inside leg, but you wouldn't use that to compare two people (you would need a tape measure), so comparing hips is a likely way to do it (you could compare waist heights, but hips are easier to find on some people!). --[[User:Tango|Tango]] ([[User talk:Tango|talk]]) 18:51, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
::::::I should have phrased that better. Men wouldn't think to measure things by their hips because it's not an anatomical landmark for them like it is for women, both in the literal sense that our hips don't flare out the same way and in the more figurative sense that women need to know their hip size for buying many kinds of clothes (for the same reason). The placement of hips is something men rarely have to keep in mind, so we wouldn't think to use it for anything else. It's kind of like how some men know what year and model of car every person they meet drives, while not being able to recall their names. [[User:Matt Deres|Matt Deres]] ([[User talk:Matt Deres|talk]]) 20:19, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
:That site is fun – except for once, it says I'm/my text is male. haha<small>hahaha</small> [[User:Julia Rossi|Julia Rossi]] ([[User talk:Julia Rossi|talk]]) 21:29, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
::It also wrongly pegged me as male. --[[User:Crackthewhip775|Crackthewhip775]] ([[User talk:Crackthewhip775|talk]]) 22:43, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

= November 21 =

== Ornlu the Wolf ==

What is the story behind the recurring character Ornlu the Wolf in the Age of ____ series, or is he entirely original? (Ornlu appears in Age of Empires 2 in the first Ghengis Khan scenario, Age of Empires 2 Expansion in the Vinlandsaga scenario of the Conquerors campaigns and as a cameo (renamed "Son of Ornlu) in some scenario in the Montezuma campaign, and in Age of Mythology (or the expansion?) as both a hero unit derived from the Fenris Wolf Brood unit, and as the relic "Eye of Ornlu".) <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/71.220.218.79|71.220.218.79]] ([[User talk:71.220.218.79|talk]]) 00:25, 21 November 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:Given that a searches for [http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&safe=off&client=safari&rls=en&q=Ornlu%20wolf&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wp "ornlu wolf"] and [http://books.google.com/books?q=ornlu+myth&btnG=Search+Books&client=safari&um=1 "ornlu myth"] get no likely looking hits in Google Books, it is probably original to the game (compare to say, a search for [http://books.google.com/books?client=safari&um=1&q=fenrir+wolf&btnG=Search+Books fenrir wolf]). --[[Special:Contributions/98.217.8.46|98.217.8.46]] ([[User talk:98.217.8.46|talk]]) 01:33, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

== no belly button ==

kelly kurkova has nobelly button, how is this possible? where did her umbilical cord come out of? virgin birth? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/82.3.145.61|82.3.145.61]] ([[User talk:82.3.145.61|talk]]) 01:32, 21 November 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:I assume you mean [[Karolina Kurkova]]. There's an article on this [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7738144.stm here]. It's probably the result of some surgery she had as a baby or child. --[[Special:Contributions/98.217.8.46|98.217.8.46]] ([[User talk:98.217.8.46|talk]]) 01:38, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

::See also [[Omphalos hypothesis]], which discusses whether [[Adam (Bible)]], who the [[Bible]] says was not [[Birth|born]], had a [[Navel|navel]]. Paintings showed Adam with a navel, implying a fictitious gestation during which he was nourished by the placenta of his nonexistent mother. [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 07:35, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
:::That is really funny! (I wanted to say lol) [[User:ReluctantPhilosopher|ReluctantPhilosopher]] ([[User talk:ReluctantPhilosopher|talk]]) 16:20, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

:: Perhaps it's just covered by make-up for some bizarre reason. Only she knows for sure. [[User:APL|APL]] ([[User talk:APL|talk]]) 15:10, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
:::[http://www.fashionmodeldirectory.com/models/karolina_kurkova/showphoto/133097 This link] shows her with one... <span style="font-family:monospace;">[[User:Dismas|Dismas]]</span>|[[User talk:Dismas|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 16:08, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
::::According to the BBC article, one is sometimes added to her photos afterwards. --[[User:Tango|Tango]] ([[User talk:Tango|talk]]) 18:54, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
:::::Perhaps she was at sea in wartime and was injured by a navel destroyer. [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 23:51, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
::::::Hilarious, Eddy, hilarious. :) [[User:Crackthewhip775|Crackthewhip775]] ([[User talk:Crackthewhip775|talk]]) 01:37, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

==Which Cypher is This?==

I am trying to decode the following cypher, however, I do not know which cypher it it. Is there any way to find out? (Please check to see if it works out before answering.)

Esheo Aorht Disas Eomta

Keyword: Death

http://www.scioly.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=325&p=11390

Thanks in advance.

--[[user:chaffers|Chaffers]] ([[user talk:chaffers|Something]] | [[Special:Contributions/chaffers|Something else]]) 03:08, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

:For a start, is the keyword literally "death" or "death (don't ask)" Where did the cryptogram come from, since context might be helpful. A short text might have many different possible solutions, under various encryptions. [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 05:18, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
::Your revised question shows it is from a "Science Olympiad" implying that a clever student should be able to come up with a convincing solution. Previous posts at the Science Olympiad imply a Playfair cipher. See [[Playfair cipher]] for hints on decoding.Do you suppose q was omitted, or I and J were placed in the same square? Does "Death" go in the top row, or somewhere else? [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 23:50, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

== Cities with certain year-round temperture ranges & certain demagraphic characteristics. ==

Hi there,

I'm looking for a list of cities north of Georgia, east of Illinois & south of New York State! Cities where during the summer months, the annual temperture spends the fewest days in excess of 80 degrees. There should also be the fewest number of days when the humidity exceeds 65%! The winter months get the fewest days where the temper-drops below 35 degrees & the fewest snow days! Any city that makes the list should then be looked at from a demagraphic point of view! The city should have at least 20% Black population & middle-income Blacks are well represented!!
Thanking you in advance for any information along these lines you can send my way!
[[User:NE7p2w8L|NE7p2w8L]] ([[User talk:NE7p2w8L|talk]]) 03:22, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

:You can get the demographic info somewhere I am sure, but if you are looking for climate and weather info, the best site I know of is http://www.weatherunderground.com . And no, [[Bill Ayers|this guy]] has nothing to do with it. If you start with the climate info from that site, narrow down the cities to places that have a tolerable climate for your disposition, you could research a smaller list of cities for demographic data to your liking. --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 03:45, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

:Based on your question, you appear to be a well-centered individual. However, be aware that some of the things you ask for exclude others. The only way to eliminate both the high and low temperature ranges would be to find a location on an island in a large body of water, or possibly on a coast with consistent on-shore winds. However, this would mean high humidity. There are relatively few communities which are both over 20% black and largely middle-class, as well, so that will be quite a limiting factor, too. [[User:StuRat|StuRat]] ([[User talk:StuRat|talk]]) 04:23, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

:I don't think there is anywhere on earth with annual temperatures over 80 degrees. Even with global warming such temperatures aren't expected. Rather fortunate since very little life can survive at that temperature [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] ([[User talk:Nil Einne|talk]]) 10:04, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
::I assume asker means 80 degrees Fahrenheit.[[User:Tomdobb|Tomdobb]] ([[User talk:Tomdobb|talk]]) 13:38, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

== indian Riddle ==

kill them of an Indian sacredness and supply a world sport with its tools..it's one of those conc riddles a pal of mine got from the net,anybody who can help me unravel it i would very much appreciate it..a-What are we killing and B.-What sport is this? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/193.220.225.253|193.220.225.253]] ([[User talk:193.220.225.253|talk]]) 05:17, 21 November 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:War or proselytising?<font color="#800080"><i>Avnas Ishtaroth</i></font> <b><sub><font color="#B048B5">[[User_talk:Schwarzes_Nacht|drop me a line]]</font></sub></b> 05:23, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

:Cows and soccer (soccer balls). [[User:CambridgeBayWeather|CambridgeBayWeather]] [[User_talk:CambridgeBayWeather|Have a gorilla]] 07:30, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

::Couldn't it be many sports? Quite a few have or have traditional had leather balls. Cricket might be more appropriate for India [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] ([[User talk:Nil Einne|talk]]) 10:08, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

:::Soccer is the "world game" though, which is hinted at in the question. [[User:FiggyBee|FiggyBee]] ([[User talk:FiggyBee|talk]]) 10:49, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

::::That depends who you are though. For some Indians, cricket might be the world game. And many Americans seem to think basketball or sometimes baseball is the world game. Perhaps a plurality or even a majority of people agree football is the world game, but that doesn't mean it's the only correct answer to the question [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] ([[User talk:Nil Einne|talk]]) 11:21, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

:Soccer is, to my understanding, the most widespread game played across the most number of professional leagues across the world. Of course that doesn't make it the 'world game' but if any sport could claim this fictional title then soccer would definitely be among the favourites. Cricket, on the other hand, appears to mostly be observed and played by current/former members of the British Empire, with little extra interest in other nations beyond this. Similarly Baseball's world-series is often ridiculued here in the UK for its lack of being a world-sport. That said both sports can probably claim widespread fans/plays. [[Special:Contributions/194.221.133.226|194.221.133.226]] ([[User talk:194.221.133.226|talk]]) 12:35, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

::The article on [[cricket]] says that it's played in 100 countries, no source, and the article on [[association football]] says it's the most popular in the world, with sources. If you change the answer to cows ([[Cattle in religion]]) and [[football]] (American football, Canadian football, Australian football, Gaelic football and rugby football) then you do have pretty much a world sport. By the way, there is nothing in the question to indicate that the question refers to Indian sport. The only reason to use India in the question has to do with Hinduism and probably few would get the answer if Egypt or Greece had been used. [[User:CambridgeBayWeather|CambridgeBayWeather]] [[User_talk:CambridgeBayWeather|Have a gorilla]] 14:26, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

:::So do I take it from all these responses that the phrase "[[The World Game]]" is not widely used outside Australia? Interesting. [[User:FiggyBee|FiggyBee]] ([[User talk:FiggyBee|talk]]) 15:45, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
::::I've never heard it in the UK, for what that's worth. [[User talk:Algebraist|Algebraist]] 16:14, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

::::I don't think the phrase it self has great currency but if you were to ask people in quite a number of countries what's the world's sport, football (as said below, in case this isn't obvious I mean soccer) would be the pick in many countries and by many people (some may just say, as me, that it's a dumb question), including sometimes in countries where it isn't the most popular sport. But I definitely don't think you'd get anything close to unamity on this, particular from a South Asian cricket fan (of which there are a lot) or American baseball/football fan. Or let me put this another way I grew up in Malaysia and watch the World Cup so I know how nuts people can be about football however I have spent enough time on ITN to know there are a lot of half good arguments you can make about the relative merits of various sports and I've also spent enough time in NZ to know how little attention football receives in parts of the world. And in case it isn't yet obvious I still call the sport football despite clear knowledge of the other pretenders to the throne. [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] ([[User talk:Nil Einne|talk]]) 16:39, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

:::I disagree, using football generically doesn't complete the picture. Frankly Gaelic football and Australian football adds virtually nothing to the equation. Rugby adds a bit but even that not so much. (And I'm a rugby fan.) You really have to add cricket (to cover South Asia in particular) and perhaps baseball (for small parts of South America) if you want to approximate a truly world sport. (Even then your probably still missing Canada and perhaps some parts of Northern Europe.) And if you want to go so generic as to include football generically why not just ball games, since the vast majority of ball games use balls that have traditionally been leather? And whyever India was in there, which in the end is speculation even if it seems likely, the fact remains it was in there so you can use it to argue that cricket (or something else) would be a more appropriate answer. Ultimately I think this is a bit of a dumb riddle (as many are) since no one even uses real leather for most balls nowadays anyway. Besides the cow isn't sacred to all Indians. And you arguably need a goal post if you want to properly play football which you're not going to get from a cow. [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] ([[User talk:Nil Einne|talk]]) 16:39, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

::I'm not denying that. However the fact remains, you can't IMHO claim one is the world game since if you do, you ignore the fact that football (and I'm referring to soccer here if that's not clear) is although very popular, clearly not the most popular sport by far in a number of key countries including India (a key one given its large population) and the USA (they do have a lot of influence in many areas). Indeed last time I looked while football seemed to be the most popular sport in China in terms of attention it received, ping pong had the highest participation and badminton and football were way up there on audience figures. In other words, while football has the most claim to be a world sport, you can't say it's the only one nor can you say it's definatively the world sport. [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] ([[User talk:Nil Einne|talk]]) 16:39, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


:::Come on guys, it's just a stupid riddle ... why are we splitting hairs? Yours truly --[[User:ReluctantPhilosopher|ReluctantPhilosopher]] ([[User talk:ReluctantPhilosopher|talk]]) 16:56, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

::A cricket ball is made from leather, which comes from cows - the sacred Indian animal - and this ball is a tool for the sport of cricket - a world sport. The answer is the cricket ball itself, not the game.

== Verifiability of authenticity of show ==

Hello. Please don't take this question as an attempt to start a discussion on whether a show is fake or genuine - it's just a question regarding whether it's POSSIBLE for a show to be fake. Ok here goes the question - I've read a lot of discussion about whether the show "The moment of truth" is genuine or is just fake with trained actors posing as participants. Now the show does seem unreal to me - why would anybody want to wash their diry linen in public for some money - risking their reputation and relationships. But my question is - wouldn't it be ILLEGAL for such a show to be fake - after all it amounts to perpetuating fraud against the viewers. And in case it is, would it be possible for such a large-scale thing to be kept under wraps? To rephrase, what I want to know is do those who allege the show to be fake have any logical foundation for the suspicions or is it just impossible. Thank you. --[[User:ReluctantPhilosopher|ReluctantPhilosopher]] ([[User talk:ReluctantPhilosopher|talk]]) 16:10, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

:Are you referring to [[The Moment of Truth (U.S. game show)]]? --[[User:LarryMac|<font color="#3EA99F">LarryMac</font>]][[User talk:LarryMac|<font color="#3EA99F"><small> | Talk</small></font>]] 16:16, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
:: Yes, sir. The article says nothing about the autheticity of the show. -[[User:ReluctantPhilosopher|ReluctantPhilosopher]] ([[User talk:ReluctantPhilosopher|talk]]) 16:25, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
:::<small>I only asked the question and linked because there is also a British TV show with the same name. And a host of other items at [[Moment of Truth]]. You'd surely have been berated by some for not being specific. --[[User:LarryMac|<font color="#3EA99F">LarryMac</font>]][[User talk:LarryMac|<font color="#3EA99F"><small> | Talk</small></font>]] 18:29, 21 November 2008 (UTC)</small>

::I've seen shorts of the show and always thought it a bit silly. I noticed this from the linked article. "Sometimes, a "surprise guest" - such as an ex-partner or a good friend - will come on the stage and ask a particularly difficult question". Also I seem to recall the questions have to be answered in front of a live studio audience and usually some guests. [[Polygraph]]y itself is an inexact science but as it's strongly dependent on emotions I would say it would be extremely difficult for someone to answer such questions under the conditions and be determined truthful. So whether or not the rest of the show is fake, just because the show says these people may not have been telling the truth doesn't mean they weren't. It's basically set up in a way people are unlikely to pass all questions IMHO. I've heard the claim made people have confessed to crimes on the show (don't think this was the US version, perhaps South American ones) and I presume there would have been investigations linked to these if they really happened. The other thing of course is that people are pre-selected for these shows, so they will only show the ones with 'juicy' secrets. If the worst thing you've done is vandalised the polygraph article to say 'Bush is gay' don't expect to be selected for the show. (And as I said polygraphy is an inexact science so isn't accepted in court and this one definitely wouldn't be, therefore the only risk you entail legally is if further evidence is uncovered.) In terms of the most generic question, most reality shows are partly bullshit. For example, in one shot here in NZ someone was badly burnt in a second take of a scene for a reality show. TV shows tend to have a lot of leeway on what they can do and claim even in countries outside the US where the are stricter guidelines. For example, [[Sensing Murder]] often makes it sound like they are uncovering startling new evidence yet last I heard, no crime has ever been solved based on information garned from any of these shows in any country (not surprisingly) [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] ([[User talk:Nil Einne|talk]]) 16:56, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
:::Actually my question is whether it COULD all be one big setup - with the participants and the guests all being trained actors - is that plausible? --[[User:ReluctantPhilosopher|ReluctantPhilosopher]] ([[User talk:ReluctantPhilosopher|talk]]) 17:00, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
::::Well if people have been investigated in South American for stuff they revealed on the show then no, at least not for the South American versions. I doubt it would be illegal though. However the show is popular enough that if it were completely fake it's likely someone would have uncovered that by now IMHO. This source also seems to suggest the show isn't fake [http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20180843,00.html]. But to put it a different way, why would you bother when you can easily find (and you can easily find, believe me) a lot of real people for the show? That's a whole load cheaper, you don't need to fluff around with script-writers, actors and all the jazz nor do you risk you show being destroyed when people find out. (Actually there may still be some but likely a lot less) [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] ([[User talk:Nil Einne|talk]]) 17:03, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

:::::Ok I guess that answers my questions - the participants are unlikely to be fake actors. Thank you, Nil Einne :-) --[[User:ReluctantPhilosopher|ReluctantPhilosopher]] ([[User talk:ReluctantPhilosopher|talk]]) 18:18, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

:It probably couldn't be fake in that way, where all the participants are actors (shills) following a script. There are other ways for it to be fake, though. If the participants are paid, they may very well make up or exaggerate stories to get on the show. Many people will do this just to get on TV, even if the coverage is all negative. [[User:StuRat|StuRat]] ([[User talk:StuRat|talk]]) 18:23, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

== Anyone been to Anguilla? ==

When I asked to balance my trip to St. Martin with a few days in a quiet, secluded spot, my travel agent recommended Anguilla. This would save me from having to buy a $400 round-trip plane ticket to the Virgin Islands. (I had wanted to go to St. John.) Is Anguilla really tranquil and beautiful like St. John is? -- [[Special:Contributions/192.206.151.130|192.206.151.130]] ([[User talk:192.206.151.130|talk]]) 17:16, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

:You will find many people who have been to Anguilla, and probably some who live there, on [http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowForum-g147238-i388-Anguilla.html this forum], where you might find helpful answers to your question. [[User:Marco polo|Marco polo]] ([[User talk:Marco polo|talk]]) 03:59, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

== Interview Questions ==

Hi,
what are they looking for in the job interview when they ask, Why do you want to leave the present job?,how do you think you can add value to this position, if given?,what are your weaknesses and strengths?etc etc, and even negotiating salary?
if anybody can unveil these mysterious venue's...any suggestions would be valuable.[[User:Vikram79|Vikram79]] ([[User talk:Vikram79|talk]]) 17:59, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
:As for why you want to leave your current job, I don't see why the truth isn't the best answer (unless you're being fired or something, then make up something fluffy). Strengths and weaknesses are (I think) pretty stupid/annoying/cliche questions for an interviewer to ask (but still do, of course), to which I usually answered something along the lines of "I'm always trying to improve my time management and organizational skills" or some other equally vague answer while hiding my derision for the question as much as possible. As for negotiating salary, it totally depends what situation you're in. If you have other offers or options that pay better than their offer, tell them that, I think they will usually appreciate candor. If you are effectively trying to "bluff them", I would be very careful, especially if it's for an entry level job or if you have been looking for a long time. Often a foot in the door and a boss that you aren't started on the wrong foot with are better than the possibility of a few more % per year. How you add value to the company is of course the meat of the interview, but ideally they know what you're going to be doing better than you and they should be the ones trying to answer that, based on how you describe your prior experience and attributes. If you know something about the job they'll be having you do, tell them that, your prior experience on the subject etc, being as specific and concrete as possible. I think references from former bosses/supervisors etc are usually very useful. Bragging about yourself is always difficult to pull off gracefully, having a letter filled with praise is much more straight forward. [[User:TastyCakes|TastyCakes]] ([[User talk:TastyCakes|talk]]) 18:14, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks tasty cakes, im getting somewhere though[[User:Vikram79|Vikram79]] ([[User talk:Vikram79|talk]]) 18:35, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

:Try to put a positive spin on the answers. The important thing is to have something to say and not be flabbergasted by the question. Why are you leaving your job - for career or personal development. Add value - find something you do well or some trait that is positive - i.e. "I have a keen eye for detail that would be useful in the production of your technically complex widgets". Strengths / weaknesses are often the same game, but make the "weakness" something that could potentially be admired, like "sometimes I lose sight of the big picture because I get very focused on my current project" and so forth. Negotiating salary is mostly a question of knowing what the skill or position averages in the economy and the location in question. If you've got a lot of experience then it is okay to push the envelope. If not, try for an average figure with a little plus and be ready to go lower. --[[User:W. B. Wilson|W. B. Wilson]] ([[User talk:W. B. Wilson|talk]]) 18:37, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

::[[wikiHow]] has several articles about job interviews, such as http://www.wikihow.com/Answer-Tough-Questions-in-an-Interview --[[User:Shantavira|Shantavira]]|[[User talk:Shantavira|<sup>feed me</sup>]] 18:46, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

:::One of the most important things to the interview is to carry yourself in a professional manner. Dress in a suit, speak in formal English, and carry yourself with tact and decorum. Given the fact that they have already seen your resume and/or your application for the job, they should know your qualifications. Interviews are time consuming expensive things, and they wouldn't schecule one if they weren't considering hiring you anyways! There's not a whole lot you can do in an interview to convince them that you are perfect for the job; however there's a LOT you could do that will make it look like it would be a mistake to hire you. Regardless of what specific questions they ask you, the ONLY thought on the mind of the interviewers is "'''Do I want to work with this person'''". If you show up in a tank top and flip-flops, mumble to yourself and stare at the walls, and sound generally uneducated in your interview you aren't going to get the job. The best thing you can do is to make a good impression by being proffesional in every aspect of your manner. Your specific answers to the question aren't really that important, its HOW you answer the questions; your confidence level, the way you comport yourself, the language you use. --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 18:48, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

::::The "Dress in a suit" thing is tricky...the super-effective recruiting consultants who found me my last job (which was in the computer games business) said that I needed to dress very casually - this de-emphasised my age and the fact that I'd been working in the defense industry on very serious topics and made it look like I could behave younger and 'fit in' with the company culture (which - as you may imagine - is incredibly casual in the computer games biz.)...so while dressing "up" is a good idea in some circumstances, it's not a rock-solid rule. [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 03:02, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Mr Wilson,you have a deep insight to this. but if you could elaborate in this topic at leisure,it would be wonderful.. thanks again[[User:Vikram79|Vikram79]] ([[User talk:Vikram79|talk]]) 19:15, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
good enough Jayron..thanks[[User:Vikram79|Vikram79]] ([[User talk:Vikram79|talk]]) 19:22, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

:Remember that not only they have to decide if you are the right person for the job, but also you have to decide if this job is right for you. Very important! So prepare a couple of questions on issues that you want to discuss, and that show your interest in the company. [[User:Lova Falk|Lova Falk]] ([[User talk:Lova Falk|talk]]) 20:25, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

== Is there a name for this style of light/light fitting? ==

[http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/ianbwfc1/Outdoor%20Lighting/Salcombeoval.jpg Is there a name for this style of light/light fitting?]
It was called a safety light in a restaurant I worked in.[[User:Hotclaws**==|hotclaws]] 19:36, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

:I would call that a "cage light":[http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=cage+light&btnG=Google+Search&meta=]. [[User:Fribbler|Fribbler]] ([[User talk:Fribbler|talk]]) 19:41, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

::It's called an [[Oval Bulkhead Light Fitting]]. Used mainly in outdoor scenarious but also useful in sheds, garages, storerooms etc.[[Special:Contributions/92.22.181.106|92.22.181.106]] ([[User talk:92.22.181.106|talk]]) 20:58, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

:-]

== Incarceration Limit / Life Imprisonment ==

According to [[Life imprisonment]] many countries have a maximum possible sentence, e.g. Norway - 21 years, Portugal - 25 years, Venezuela - 30 years, Spain - 40 years. Do these values given in the article indicate the maximum penalty '''per sentence''' or the '''absolute maximum amount of time one can be incarcerated'''? e.g. if you murdered two people in Venezuela would you get 30 years or 60 years imprisonment?
--[[Special:Contributions/124.177.29.112|124.177.29.112]] ([[User talk:124.177.29.112|talk]]) 22:48, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
*Depends on whether the sentences run concurrently (A sentence of 3 years plus a sentence of 10 years = 10 years (the longest of the two sentences)) or consecutively (A sentence of 3 years plus a sentence of 10 years = 13 years (the total of the two sentences)- see [[Sentence (law)]]. Judges sometimes have the power to set a [[Tariff (criminal law)|minimum tariff]] too - a number of years you must serve before you can be considered for parole/release on license. [[User:Exxolon|Exxolon]] ([[User talk:Exxolon|talk]]) 02:29, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
**Ah, I think I get it now. So for instance in Venezuela, which has a maximum sentence of 30 years, it is still possible to serve longer than that in prison if the charges are consecutive, eh?

= November 22 =

== Silkie Chickens ==

How noisy are silkie hens. I'd like to get one but I want to know if they would be to noisy. How far away can their clucking, crying and squwaking be heard.--[[User:Pufferfish4|Pufferfish4]] ([[User talk:Pufferfish4|talk]]) 00:06, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
*Suggest you contact a poultry breeder. This ref [http://books.google.com/books?id=MMMjW6AuzHAC&pg=RA1-PA680&lpg=RA1-PA680&dq=%22silkie+hen%22+quiet&source=bl&ots=xS_t-5MvzH&sig=WvN0twQXLZZ9s6Zg1d5lGgUgMTo&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result] says they are "reasonably quiet". [[User:Exxolon|Exxolon]] ([[User talk:Exxolon|talk]]) 02:24, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

== dating a singer sewing machine ==

I HAVE A SINGER TREADLE SEWING MACHINE WITH A NUMBER PLATE ON BASE OF MACHINE OF AA597705. LOOKING FOR A DATE OF MANUFACTURE AND MODEL NUMBER. I NEED SOME PARTS AND INFORMATION ON IT AND HAVE NO WAY OF FINDING THIS. I HAVE SEARCHED THE INTERNET WITH NO RESULTS. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Maryjanequilting|Maryjanequilting]] ([[User talk:Maryjanequilting|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Maryjanequilting|contribs]]) 04:09, 22 November 2008 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

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December 19

[edit]

Who is the following unknown?

[edit]

When asked "WHO IS YOUR X?" (X still being unknown to me but is known to the respondents), here are the answers I get:

A answers: "A"
B answers: "C"
C answers: "C"
D answers: "F"
E answers: "F"
F answers: "F"

To sum up, the special phenomenon here is that, everybody has their own X (usually), and if any respondent points at another respondent as the first respondent's X, then the other respondent must point at themself as their X.

I wonder who the unknown X may be, when I only know that X is a natural example from everyday life. I thought about a couple of examples, but none of them are satisfactory, as follows:

X is the leader of one's political party, or X is one's mayor, and the like, but all of these examples attribute some kind of leadership or superiority to X, whereas I'm not interested in this kind of solution - involving any superiority of X.

Here is a second solution I thought about: X is the first (or last) person born in the year/month the respondent was born, and the like. But this solution involves some kind of order (in which there is a "first person" and a "last person"), whereas I'm not interested in this kind of solution - involving any order. 79.177.151.182 (talk) 12:11, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Drummer?  Card Zero  (talk) 14:25, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The OP also posted this question on the Math desk. What if everyone says "I'm Spartacus!" ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots14:30, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I forgot to add an important point (so I've just added it, thanks to your response): Everybody has their own X (usually). 79.177.151.182 (talk) 14:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What do you mean by "everybody has an X"? A lot of folks have an "ex", but is that what you mean? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots15:08, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I mean that everybody has their own X (usually), whether X is one's mayor, or X is the leader of one's political party, and so forth. Additionally, keep in mind that if any respondent points at another respondent as the first respondent's X, then the other respondent must point at themself as their X. 79.177.151.182 (talk) 15:21, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
(ec)The statement "everybody has their own X" makes no sense to me, and I'm a native English speaker. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots15:36, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
X is the usual symbol denoting an unknown (as in mathematical equations), but here the unknown is a person, like "a mayor", and the like. 79.177.151.182 (talk) 15:42, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are too many possible answers that still don't involve order or superiority.
- Translator
- Publisher
- Spokesperson
- Copyeditor
- Cleaner
- Keyholder (person who closes a shop and responsible for turning up in cases of property related emergencies - sometimes it's a manager but sometimes it's merely someone who is willing to stay late or be early)
- Scribe
- Accountant
- Driver
Basically anything where there's a "role" in a group but usually only one (barring circumstances).
What are you hoping to accomplish by asking a question like this? Komonzia (talk) 15:34, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thx.
Resolved
79.177.151.182 (talk) 15:42, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't believe it. A publisher doesn't have necessarily a publisher, because it normally is not an author. A keyholder could be a trusted neighbour,who doesn't work at the shop and is therefore not its own keyholder (at least in relation to the shop). Of course in relation to its own living quarters mostly everybody is a keyholder, but that was not part of the definition. Even a translator doesn't translate itself when it expresses itself in the foreign language. At least not necessarily. Even a cleaner doesn't necessarily cleans up after itself. I know one! Personally!
When you're satisfied by these examples that don't match your description, then I would like to see the real description. 176.0.128.31 (talk) 08:24, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So this is interesting linguistically and socially - the use of the word "usually" lets in a lot of the examples given, at least in some societies. However mathematically you are looking for something impossible. Lets assume that everyone has an X (or equivalently ignore those people without an X, who are also no-one's X). The relation partitions the set into subsets (i.e. the subsets include all the elements, and each element is in one and only one subset). Each subset has one self-X call it C for centre, and all the other elements (0 or more of them) point to C. Example, whole numbers under the relation "what is the remainder if you are divided by 5". 5 subsets with C=0, 1, 2, 3, 4. In every case there is a "privileged" centre, whether it would be considered superior, inferior or just special is open to interpretation. You can only have no centres in the case where there are no elements at all. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 21:07, 20 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

Street View

[edit]

Why Googlehas not launched Street View in mainland China? There do exist several user-submitted photos, mostly from landmarks and historical cities, but why Google cars have not traveled there yet? How likely is that in 2034, mainland China will have photos by Google cars if Street view is launched there?

And, why South Korea, a country with a large economy and almost no bans, still has large unphotographed areas with most minor cities and major freeways are not photographed entirely? And could North Korea ever get Street View by Google cars? --40bus (talk) 17:54, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here is some info: Google Street View in Asia There are some places in China where they have it. As to future predictions, Wikipedia can't do that. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots19:07, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@40bus: https://webapps.stackexchange.com/a/160276 (and see also my comment below). could North Korea ever get Street View by Google cars That is unlikely to happen in the foreseeable future, and anything beyond that is unforeseeable. Polygnotus (talk) 01:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My dream would be every country in the world having full coverage. Is that likely in next 20 years? At least Belarus's lack of Street View should be corrected. I would like to see views from every country. --40bus (talk) 06:21, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"If wishes were horses...". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots07:13, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Though a multinational, Google is at base an American company, or at least is perceived as such.
Think about the political tensions between the Peoples Republic of China, and the West in general and the USA in particular. Now ask yourself – how might the Government of China feel about American-controlled spy-cars driving around the whole of China, photographing everything visible? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.1.223.204 (talk) 20:51, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That is (obviously) not the reason; your tin foil hat is malfunctioning. The USA does not require something as lowtech as a 360 camera mounted on a car to drive through an area to spy on that area. The reason is that Google does not want to waste its money. And China has a habit of creating local state-owned alternatives to foreign services, allowing those to rip off the foreign tech, and then massively disadvantaging the foreign company. They have done this many times before. Polygnotus (talk) 01:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not suggesting that the US would want (or need) to do this. I'm asking how the Chinese Government would welcome the appearance of it, particularly in the perception of their own people. International relations and management of internal perceptions are all about opinions, beliefs, and what can be spun, regardless of truth.
Recently, in my own country, Chinese visitors and personnel from an ostensible language school fomented a totally spurious 'incident' at a London railway terminus, by approaching a well-known busker and YouTuber filming his and others' performances on a public piano, and then insisting that he stop filming, complaining to police present that he was violating their rights by filming them. This was not done for any valid reason, but (presumably) to try to manipulate public opinion within China, and create a spurious 'grievance' to use in diplomatic discussions. Such games go on all the time. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.1.223.204 (talk) 01:36, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm asking how the Chinese Government would welcome the appearance of it I have answered the original question; please don't hijack this thread to ask a vaguely related question and then bring up unrelated stuff (which was not recent but a year ago, and a storm in a teacup, and your conspiracy theory is not supported by evidence). There are plenty of diplomatic incidents between China and the UK; neither side has a need to manufacture one. If you want to ask a new question, please post it in a new section. Thank you, Polygnotus (talk) 01:44, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Telling a user "your tin foil hat is malfunctioning" is offensive, and is by itself a "hijacking" of this section. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots02:20, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Incorrect (on both counts). And posting 2 conspiracy theories in 1 thread is a clear sign of a malfunctioning tin foil hat. Polygnotus (talk) 02:21, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you love the Chinese government so much, maybe you should have your own "tin foil hat" checked for malfunctions. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots02:49, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for proving my point. The CCP killed insane numbers of people through brutality and incompetence. But we should still call out tin foil conspiracy nonsense. The idea that all conspiracies about the "other" must be true, just because we don't like them, is a very very dangerous one. Just like the idea that everyone who points out that some conspiracies about the "other" are false must be an "other". Polygnotus (talk) 12:07, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Considering Restrictions on geographic data in China, it seems correct to mention the Chinese Government as a cause. Baidu and Tencent have presumably obtained authorization, because they're not foreign organizations. This incidentally functions as protectionism. I tracked the piano thing down to Brendan Kavanagh#St. Pancras Station piano dispute, and I suppose there is a tenuous connection since it involves the UFWD and image rights.  Card Zero  (talk) 03:32, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Google's use of GCJ-02 coordinate data and WGS-84 sattelite images has led to weird results in the past. Polygnotus (talk) 12:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Surveying and Mapping Law led to 14 companies being given exclusive rights to map China. All local companies. Google Maps applied and was denied. https://interfax.com/newsroom/top-stories/63636/ https://medium.com/@anastasia.bizyayeva/every-map-of-china-is-wrong-bc2bce145db2 Polygnotus (talk) 12:27, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relations between Google and the Chinese government have been difficult for years. China wants its citizens to see only a censored version of the internet, requiring Google to filter results from its search engine. In case of Street View, the Chinese government is concerned about what their own citizens can see (and I suppose they also want to know who views which streets). Google isn't very eager to comply with all China's request, as that could be quite expensive and bad for their image in less authoritarian states. PiusImpavidus (talk) 19:44, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Why Somalia, Venezuela and Cuba do not have Street View yet? --40bus (talk) 23:38, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This question can be answered by chatgpt or similar. Or by reading the Wikipedia articles about those countries. Polygnotus (talk) 01:33, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

December 21

[edit]

Britannica

[edit]

Why Encyclopaedia Britannica uses imperial units in its articles, ever for things that are measured in metric in UK such as temperatures, if it is based in UK and read by people in metric countries? --40bus (talk) 07:47, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

40bus, it is not based in the UK despite its British sounding name. The Encyclopaedia Britannica has been published in the United States since 1901. That's two years before the first human piloted airplane flight. Cullen328 (talk) 07:57, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Why it is not based in the UK? And if it is read and edited by people in metric countries, why many of its articles use imperial units first? It even uses British English spelling. And are there any similar UK-based online encyclopedias? --40bus (talk) 08:36, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No. Go be bored somewhere else. Nanonic (talk) 09:27, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If all else fails, you could try asking them. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots16:43, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can't you do that for me??? —Tamfang (talk) 21:47, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Webpages

[edit]

Are there any web pages from late 1980s and early 1990s that are still in their original address, rather than on Internet Archive? Was it common for a company or person to have website in early 1990s? --40bus (talk) 07:53, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We have a List of websites founded before 1995. The IN2P3 site from 1992 can still be visited, where you may enjoy seeing the French National Institute for Nuclear Physics and Particle Physics's contact details, a small picture of the building, and five hyperlinks. The article says there were 2,879 websites established before 1995, so no, it wasn't common.  Card Zero  (talk) 09:19, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Were there any websites around in 1990? This year feels still relatively recent. And are there any saved TV broadcasts from that time in the web, from any country? --40bus (talk) 11:47, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Are you just randomly asking questions? Polygnotus (talk) 12:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Take the effort to read the first sentence of List of websites founded before 1995 and you will have the answer to your question.  --Lambiam 10:41, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Did Donald Trump's father,

[edit]

Fred, know Rudy Giuliani's father, who is said to have been a mob contract killer? I'm asking because I've heard rumors somewhere that both Donald and Fred had mob contacts in New York City.Rich (talk) 22:43, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Said to have been"; is there a reliable source that claims this? It has also been said that Donald Trump is a shape shifting lizard.[1] Harold Giuliani was at the bottom of the low end of shady dealings in the Italian immigrant community. It seems extremely unlikely that Fred Trump, a high-profile successful real-estate developer from the German immigrant community, would have a reason to meet him.  --Lambiam 10:38, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, that's what the OP is asking. You're just repeating the OP's question using different words. --Viennese Waltz 10:52, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The OP did not ask whether it was plausible but whether it was true. Even if the mob contract killer story should prove more than randomly created innuendo, there is still nothing to suggest the two fathers ever met. The suggested mob contacts would not make this more likely than two random New Yorkers (like Henri who sometimes ordered pizza and Freddy who sometimes delivered pizza) knowing each other. It is very difficult to prove a negative, but the question implied the OP thought it was at least plausible, which, as I tried to point out, it is not.  --Lambiam 01:09, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No insult intended to shape-shifting lizards. Clarityfiend (talk) 10:50, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
(it's easy for you to google that the rumors are out there, Lambiam.Rich (talk) 18:59, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I did not dispute the rumours exist, but IMO they are irrelevant to the question whether the two fathers knew each other, so I ignored them.  --Lambiam 01:09, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Giuliani gave a eulogy and he probably would have mentioned it if they knew eachother, but it doesn't seem like he did. https://nypost.com/1999/06/30/trump-patriarch-eulogized-as-great-builder/ Polygnotus (talk) 18:22, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
https://stevevillano.medium.com/the-trumps-an-incestuous-intertwining-with-organized-crime-ab65316c2b48
Rich (talk) 19:30, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for finding this, Polygnotus. But are you sure Rudy would have mentioned it in his eulogy, being possibly embarrassed about his father's occupation? And mentioning an acquaintance with his father would not make Fred seem more illustrious, which eulogies are meant to do. Rich (talk) 19:03, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, I haven't found definitive proof. Polygnotus (talk) 12:08, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

December 22

[edit]
[edit]

Hello,

I want to add an article for a place in delhi cantonment. However, i am unsure about the relevant Wikipedia policies on this topic. I tried searching on DuckDuckGo to no avail And the results of Wikipedia search gave unrelated things. What are the relevant policies? KhubsuratInsaan (talk) 11:16, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You may find this guide a good starting point. Be sure in particular to study the section on notability. You may also want to look up articles about similar places (if those articles exist) and review them to get a sense of what does and does not go into such an article.
It looks like you're new to Wikipedia. (Welcome!) You may find it easier to write an article from scratch and get it past article review or new pages patrol if you spend some time here first editing other pages and getting to understand the culture. That's not a strict requirement, just something a lot of people benefit from when they first arrive! -- Avocado (talk) 14:28, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And the place for new editors to ask questions is the Wikipedia:Teahouse (although we're happy to help here too, especially with references). Alansplodge (talk) 15:24, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
thank you. i will keep this in mind next time i want to ask a question. KhubsuratInsaan (talk) 12:56, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
thank you for the detailed reply ❤️ KhubsuratInsaan (talk) 12:56, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Indian city classification

[edit]

I was looking at Classification of Indian cities. In tier Y, there are more than 100 cities listed. But in the reference given there are only 88. I even looked what appears to be official website, there's no new circular of new list. [2] Are there any other circulars or should I just remove extra cities. Also, as my main purpose to look for a tier classification, was to use it as approximation for urban (Tier X and Y) and rural districts (Tier Z). Is there any other department which does this kind of classification, please let me know. -- Parnaval (talk) 17:13, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That circular by the Department of Expenditure indicates that classification of cities depends on the latest census. Entities using the classification after yearly update seemingly are easy to find ( https://7thpaycommissionnews.in/classification-of-indian-cities/), regarding a specific source explicitly mentioning their is an update the department link to look for has to be related to the census. --Askedonty (talk) 21:28, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

December 27

[edit]

Black Cube, Melissa Nathan,&U.S. presidential candidates

[edit]

Black Cube has a wikipedia article, Melissa Nathan is mentioned in the article It Ends with Us. Both are googleable. My question is if either Black Cube or Melissa Nathan were ever hired to discredit John Kerry or Hillary Clinton? I realize that in Melissa Nathan's case, if she had been hired for that, it would probably have been before she formed The Agency Group PR.Rich (talk) 06:52, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The link should have been to It Ends with Us (film).  --Lambiam 19:16, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Griggsville, Missouri?

[edit]

The Robert Fiske (actor) article claims (without a source) that he was born in Griggsville, Missouri. I can find no evidence whatever that such a place has ever existed. There is a Griggsville, Illinois, which is about 20 miles northeast of the IL/MO border (which I think is the river, and presumably was in 1889). Was there really a Griggsville in Missouri, or is this a simple mistake? The only substantive author (to the biographical part of the article) is long departed Wikipedia. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 20:12, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I can't find an obit for Fiske in Newspapers.com, and the Findagrave entry [3] simply says he was born in Missouri. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots21:37, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
[Edit Conflict] I wondered if it might be something to do with the Mississippi changing its course, but it seems not. However, if Griggsville, Illinois is correct, he could be added to that article's Notable person [sic] section, doubling its complement!
The 'Missouri' inclusion was (as you may have noted) in the article as created in 2005, so at least we know it's not the result of vandalism.
I notice that the Unreliable sources IMDb, Rotten Tomatoes and the Internet Broadway Database also state Griggsville, Missouri, which may of course have been taken from Wikipedia, and Find a Grave gives merely Missouri. However, The Movie Database does give Griggsville, Illinois. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.1.223.204 (talk) 21:42, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Indications in Ancestry.com are that he was merely born "in Missouri", not a specific city that I've found. Even though the original article writer has been offline for over 9 years, maybe his email still works? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots21:54, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm wondering if there is some circular WP:CITOGENESIS between ourselves, Findagrave, and IMDb. I too considered the "moving river" hypothesis, but it's much too far away. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 22:42, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Who Was Who on Screen (1977) confirms he was born in Griggsville, Missouri. No danger of citogenesis there. The search term "Griggsville, MO" throws up a few non-Fiske results on Google and Google Books, but I can't find precisely where it is. --Antiquary (talk) 09:22, 28 December 2024 (UTC) Ah, here we are, it's in Pike County, Missouri [4]. --Antiquary (talk) 10:00, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Griggsville, IL, is also in Pike County, Illinois and if you look up the zip code (62340) given on that web site you also land in Illinois. The two Pike Counties are direct neighbours, but there's no indication of any common history or even a shift in the state border. --Wrongfilter (talk) 10:15, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That sounds ominous. Also, the more of my Google and Google Books hits I follow up, the fewer check out. The evidence that this place ever existed outside of Fiske's say-so looks rather slight. Here is one cite from 1907, and there are one or two more from the 19th century, but confusion with Griggsville, IL can't be ruled out. --Antiquary (talk) 10:46, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks everyone. I'll flag the birthplace in the article is questionable (and the whole article as poorly sourced), but I think there's enough uncertainty for me to not "fix" it. And I'll refer to this discussion on the talk page, for the (probably very unlikely event) that some future person cares enough about this rather minor actor to do more thorough research. Thank you. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 08:04, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

December 28

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Why do news reporters name the programme they are reporting for?

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This is an example by BBC News. ―Panamitsu (talk) 05:44, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You have linked to a BBC TV program where at 0:40 the presenter introduces "Our science correspondent Pallab Ghosh" who signs off his report "Pallab Ghosh, BBC News". His report includes statements by two experts each identified by name and affiliation. The video typifies the high standard of jounalism where BBC emphasize distinction between source and editorial content. Incidentally, a good BBC TV reporter tends to become a "household name" (the likes of Clive Myrie, Fiona Bruce, Sophie Raworth, Reeta Chakrabarti, Steve Rosenberg, Michael Buchanan and more). Edit: I apologise to Pallab Ghosh for initially misspelling his name and thank Antiquary for correcting me. Philvoids (talk) 11:19, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Pallab Ghosh, but I'm sure he's used to it. --Antiquary (talk) 11:29, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As I understand the question, it is not why reporters identify themselves, but why for instance Ghosh does not sign off by simply saying "Pallab Ghosh", full stop.  --Lambiam 10:29, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's a standard practice, which might even be in their contracts. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots11:55, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Does the fact that aeroplane/ship navigation lights are green and red cause problems for pilots who are red-green colour blind? How do they deal with that? Can they even become pilots? ―Panamitsu (talk) 22:49, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I couldn't be a pilot because of my red-green colour blindness, but people with a mild version can apparently - this is a link to the UK's Civil Aviation Authority's guidance on colour vision requirements. Mikenorton (talk) 23:25, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How fascinating. Thanks. ―Panamitsu (talk) 00:21, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Similarly, red-green colourblind people may not be able to become helmsmen.
You might think it would have been more convenient to make those lights red and cyan, as far fewer people are red-blue colourblind, but when navigation lights on ships were introduced, bright blueish lights couldn't be made. That only became possible with gas discharge lamps. Traffic lights and railway signals these days (often using LEDs) use a slightly blueish green, so that most colourblind people can see the difference between red and green. PiusImpavidus (talk) 11:55, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They could have agreed (and still could agree) on assigning distinct flashing patterns, like •••—— and ••• .  --Lambiam 20:48, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wouldn't that be a problem because the sky/ocean is blue? I understand that the lights are used at night so it shouldn't be too much of a problem. ―Panamitsu (talk) 22:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It would involve more complex lighting circuits/equipment and massive world-wide retrofitting, which (I suggest) would be prohibitively expensive, to solve a relatively minor 'problem' more easily answered by simply not employing colour-blind people in the relevant positions. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.1.223.204 (talk) 13:12, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
When I answered telephones and sold passenger tickets for Eurostar I had to pass an Ishihara test, the same as signalmen and train drivers. DuncanHill (talk) 21:27, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Depending on the signalling system, train drivers may also have to discriminate red from yellow/amber. This is less important for road users. And states of tracks and signals are colour-coded on the computer monitors of signalmen, but it should only take a simple software update to accommodate colourblind signalmen. (Yes, there're still some old-fashioned signal boxes in some countries; I've passed the one at Severn Bridge Junction on my way to Wales.) I don't see the objection against colourblind ticket sellers. PiusImpavidus (talk) 11:58, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

December 29

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Domains

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Are Eritrea's .er and Belarus's .by ever used in domain hacks? .er could be used in shortcut to Blogger, blogg.er, like goo.gl and youtu.be, and .by could be used in domains such as drive.by and in Nordic place namesmas by means "village" in Swedish and "city" in Norwegian and Danish. And can South Africa's .za and India's .in be used directly after the main part, such as in piz.za and drive.in? Also, can .pl, .cz, .sk and .hu addresses contain diacritics, such as gdańsk.pl, česko.cz, košice.sk and magyarország.hu? --40bus (talk) 10:10, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See URL#Internationalized URL. PiusImpavidus (talk) 11:30, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Plusimpavidus has only answered the last sentencee.
The answer to the first part is entirely dependent on the policy of the controller of the ccTLD in question, and that controller may or may not publish a policy. Technically, of course they could be used: the government of Tonga sells .to domains to any interested party, as I presume you know.
According to our article .by The Operations and Analysis Centre under the President of the Republic of Belarus allows for anyone (not only for those who reside in Belarus) to register a second level domain such as something.by, and it also says he .by code is used for domain hack by institutions from the German state of Bavaria (German: Bayern), such as bayern.by, the Bavarian Tourism Agency. Since "by" means "town" or "city" in Norwegian, it's also used by some Norwegian newspapers, such as osl.by for an Oslo newspaper, and trd.by for a Trondheim newspaper, however, neither of these statements appear to be sourced. When I just tried it, trd.by seems to redirect to a Norwegian casino site.
Our articles .er and .za say nothing about whether the ccTLDs are available to anybody outside Eritrea and South Africa respectively. .in doesn't explicitly address the question, but in talking about the use of subdomains it repeats "in India" several times. ColinFine (talk) 20:38, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Colored asphalt markings

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What's the purpose of such blue, green, pink marks on street grounds? I've seen them in multiple places in Warsaw (typically in non-traffic places, such as sidewalks) where they've stayed for several months or even years without being erased. From what I've read, those marks can be made for some roadworks, but I'm not sure. Brandmeistertalk 20:06, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've seen them used for several purposes, mostly for marking the course of some underground pipe or cable, but also for marking a distance such as 500m from a given spot. In the first case, there is a sequence of similar markings, not too far apart from each other. In the second case the marking is usually accompanied by a number or some code.  --Lambiam 20:55, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
See utility location. --142.112.149.206 (talk) 22:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In my experience (UK) they appear in preparation for invasive ground works, most recently in our road prior to the installation of the third set of broadband cables under our pavement. Apparently, existing suppliers and their customers get sniffy if new upstart suppliers not only add their own cables, but put a shovel through the existing cables in the process! Different colours may denote gas, water and telecommunication lines.
There is also an occasional rash of markings that outline potholes; whether this is done to guide the repairers of potholes, or as a placebo to pacify local road users, is not always clear. It is possible that the process accompanies the calculation of a cost for the work; the expenditure may not be forthcoming.[citation needed] -- Verbarson  talkedits 21:24, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

January 1

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