Talk:Demographics of Iraq: Difference between revisions
Content deleted Content added
m Signing comment by WikiSeyd - "" |
mNo edit summary |
||
| (46 intermediate revisions by 28 users not shown) | |||
| Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
{{Talk header}} |
|||
PLEASE STOP VANDALIZING THE ARTICLE ON IRAQI PEOPLE. JUST AS MUCH AS THERE IS AN ARTICLE ON KURDISH PEOPLE OR LEBANESE PEOPLE, THERE WILL ALSO BE AN ARTICLE ON IRAQI PEOPLE. SO COULD PEOPLE WHO (OBVIOUSLY FROM THEIR HISTORY) ARE AFFILIATED WITH THE KURDISH AND IRANIAN ETHNIC GROUP STOP DELETING THE ARTICLE ON IRAQI PEOPLE WHO ARE SEMITIC PEOPLE NOT RELATED TO KURDS AND PERSIANS WITH THEIR OWN HISTORY AND CULTURE. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:WikiSeyd|WikiSeyd]] ([[User talk:WikiSeyd|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/WikiSeyd|contribs]]) 17:03, 6 February 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=Start| |
|||
{{WikiProject Iraq|importance=top}} |
|||
{{WikiProject Kurdistan|importance=top}} |
|||
{{WikiProject Assyria|importance=top}} |
|||
}} |
|||
== Religion statistics a mess == |
|||
The figures on religion are a mess and contradictory, not only here but also in other Iraq articles. Are Shia 65% (second paragraph, on top) or 45% (table Religions) ?? [[User:Kipala|Kipala]] ([[User talk:Kipala|talk]]) 23:34, 3 November 2017 (UTC) |
|||
Yes they should be fixed. [[User:JasonMoore|JasonMoore]] ([[User talk:JasonMoore|talk]]) 14:58, 24 April 2021 (UTC) |
|||
{{Iraq|class=start}} |
|||
Prof Mehrdad R. Izady, creator of the Iraq demographics map, is a Kurdish nationalist. See, for example: "Manifesto of the Kurdish people," Monday, March 31, 2003 (For the Creation of a Free, Independent and Unified Homeland) at http://www.kurdmedia.com/articles.asp?id=9020 |
|||
== Ethnic and Religious Groups a mess as well == |
|||
His ethnic/religious map of Iraq, therefore, is in all likelihood politicized in favor of the Kurds. |
|||
"A report published by the European Parliamentary Research Service": To quote an article and then change the figures is a bit bold, I think. The number of Kurds e.g. is given at 8 million in the Wiki article, whereas the quoted report says 4 million. It is equally interesting how 15 million Shia Arabs and 9 million Sunni Arabs equal 20 million Arabs... <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2003:DF:5F4A:A011:6809:F276:DC33:F8D5|2003:DF:5F4A:A011:6809:F276:DC33:F8D5]] ([[User talk:2003:DF:5F4A:A011:6809:F276:DC33:F8D5#top|talk]]) 16:39, 30 May 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
==Merge from Iraqis== |
|||
One example: a more reliable estimate of the Turkmen population of Iraq is 5.5%, rather than 2%. See http://www.unpo.org/article.php?id=261 |
|||
{{Discussion top|reason=The result of this discussion was '''not merged'''. <small>([[Wikipedia:Non-admin closure|non-admin closure]])</small> [[User:TheBirdsShedTears|TheBirdsShedTears]] ([[User talk:TheBirdsShedTears|talk]]) 11:45, 29 December 2021 (UTC)}} |
|||
First of all, both articles seem mostly overlapping, including much of the lead section. Secondly, the claim of Iraqi ethnicity with a strong Arab element is a highly dubious policy of [[Baathist Iraq|Baathists]] who were long overthrown; while most modern Iraqis do see themselves merely as Iraqi nationals of distinct ethno-sectarian origins such as Shia Arab, Sunni Arab, Kurdish, Assyrian, Turkomani, etc. Third, we have already merged similar articles such as [[Talk:Demographics_of_Libya#Proposed_merger|Libyan people]].[[User:Greyshark09|'''''GreyShark''''']] ([[User talk:Greyshark09|''dibra'']]) 07:56, 25 November 2020 (UTC) |
|||
:I support the merge. --[[User:Semsûrî|Semsûrî]] ([[User talk:Semsûrî|talk]]) 14:17, 25 November 2020 (UTC) |
|||
'''Support''' per nom [[User:Ridax2020|Ridax2020]] ([[User talk:Ridax2020|talk]]) 13:23, 17 January 2021 (UTC) |
|||
:That is an article about a Tibetan demonstration in Vienna. Is it maybe a different link? [[User:Tom harrison|Tom Harrison]] <sup>[[User talk:Tom harrison|Talk]]</sup> 21:02, 29 November 2006 (UTC) |
|||
I '''completely disagree''', they should be kept as two pages seperatly [[User:Shaxi321|Shaxi321]] ([[User talk:Shaxi321|talk]]) 08:09, 20 April 2021 (UTC) |
|||
The correct link on the Turkmen population is http://www.unpo.org/article.php?id=2610 . Probably the original contributor simply cut off the "0" digit in copying it. I think that the estimates in that article are rather hazy, however. On the other hand, I also believe that Izady's map is extremely biased and inaccurate. There is always, from him and others, an attempt to cut down the Sunni Arabs, who simply have to be more of the population to have maintained their authority for so long. Also, a careful study of Iraq censuses for geographical distribution of census numbers can produce some approximations about percentages of the population. Based on these, I would say that the Sunni Arabs are about 25%, the Shi`i Arabs 54%, the Sunni Kurds 15%, the Shi`i Kurds 2%, the Turkmen 2%, and the Christians now less than 2%, maybe even less than 1%, as most have fled. Going back to the map, note that the Kurdish areas are considerably exaggerated at the expense of the Sunni Arabs, that Samarra is a Sunni town, so that the spot of Shi`i Arab population there is exaggerated and should only include the Shi`i town of Balad, that the area immediately south of Baghdad is Sunni, not Shi`i, so that Baghdad is almost surrounded by Sunni territory, and that there are many mixed areas, including Shi`is in the extreme north. While the Shi`i Arabs are clearly overwhelmingly more numerous than the Sunni Arabs, the preponderance of former must not be exaggerated; it is more on the order of two to one than three to one. The election results, despite fabrication that has happened, also tend to back these estimates. Finally, if the Sunni Arabs were really so few, why is it that the Shi`i Arabs seem to be so afraid of a unitary state in which they would be the majority? [[User:151.197.127.15|151.197.127.15]] 23:46, 10 February 2007 (UTC) |
|||
'''Support''' per nom. This page's very existence is not NPOV. --[[User:Calthinus|Calthinus]] ([[User talk:Calthinus|talk]]) 00:22, 23 April 2021 (UTC) |
|||
Furthermore, I would like it if this article would take care to refer to the effects on population of the killing of some hundreds of thousands of Iraqis under the sanctions regime of 1991-2003, the killing of some 655,000 during the war from 2003 to the present, and the displacement of some 2,000,000 refugees outside of Iraq altogether and 1,700,000 inside Iraq, for a total of 3,700,000 refugees. If we assume the population now is 27,000,000, probably a maximal estimate, this would mean that some 13.7% of all Iraqis, almost one in seven, are refugees. As few of these are Kurds, the proportion among other groups is even higher. Refugees outside of Iraq should not be counted as part of the population there. [[User:151.197.127.15|151.197.127.15]] 23:48, 10 February 2007 (UTC) |
|||
'''Strongly disagree''', it will be a really shame if another Arab country's people page is eliminated, as has also been done with many countries' people pages in Latin America and the Caribbean, and Oceania. Meanwhile the same is not done for other national people pages. So again, strongly disagree. |
|||
== net migration rate == |
|||
I '''disagree'''. Iraqi demographics and a page about the people of Iraq are completely different things. Information about a people goes beyond the demography inside a portion of land. − [[User:Allice Hunter|<span style="font-family:Helvetica; color:#4B0082;">'''''Allice Hunter'''''</span>]] [[User talk:Allice Hunter|<span style="color:#7B68EE; font-style:oblique;"><sup>(Inbox)</sup></span>]] 16:25, 1 December 2021 (UTC) |
|||
The article claims that the net migration rate is 0, which is actually sth what i cannot really believe. According to a radio comment, it was said, that more than 10% of the iraq population left the country after the american invasion until now. Does anyone know any qualified sources for this?.--[[User:LugPaj|LugPaj]] 14:51, 18 February 2007 (UTC) |
|||
:yeah, I dunno who made this, only in Jordan and syria there are at least two millions now. |
|||
:oh it was based on CIA fact book ................ figures |
|||
::'''Yes''' -follow the BBC reports on the refugee crisis and the exodus. See the article [[Refugees of Iraq]]. [[User:Dogru144|Dogru144]] 09:23, 16 July 2007 (UTC) |
|||
'''disagree''', some information may overlap, but they are not the same [[User:Mcvti|Mcvti]] ([[User talk:Mcvti|talk]]) 19:39, 19 December 2021 (UTC) |
|||
== Are the Iraqi Turkmens ignored??? == |
|||
{{Discussion bottom}} [[User:TheBirdsShedTears|TheBirdsShedTears]] ([[User talk:TheBirdsShedTears|talk]]) 11:45, 29 December 2021 (UTC) |
|||
| ⚫ | |||
Why isn't Turkish added in the list below??? |
|||
These pages should be kept as two separate pagee [[User:Shaxi321|Shaxi321]] ([[User talk:Shaxi321|talk]]) 08:09, 20 April 2021 (UTC) |
|||
Languages: Arabic, Kurdish (official in Kurdish regions), Aramaic, Assyrian Neo-Aramaic, Chaldean Neo-Aramaic, and Armenian |
|||
You are a clear vandal and have been caught breaking the WP:TDE rules for some time now. You should not be editing Wikipedia pages with this kind of dishonesty. [[User:JasonMoore|JasonMoore]] ([[User talk:JasonMoore|talk]]) 14:58, 24 April 2021 (UTC) |
|||
==[[Chaldean community]]== |
|||
How did the Chaldean community get ignored in this article? (They are distinct from the Assyrian community.) [[User:Dogru144|Dogru144]] 09:21, 16 July 2007 (UTC) |
|||
: I now see: I saw, by an editor's page (an editor from this community), that Assyrian is the ethnic group, Chaldean is the branch of Christianity. [[User:Dogru144|Dogru144]] 09:44, 16 July 2007 (UTC) |
|||
== April 2021 - Stop Vandalizing Religion Statistics == |
|||
| ⚫ | |||
There are clear Sunni bias vandals who are changing the statistics to favour them. The information from the CIA World Factbook is the latest and its information has been updated. |
|||
You can read this: "Arabic and Kurdish are official languages. Assyrian and '''Turkmen''' are '''official languages in areas where the Assyrians and Iraqi Turkmen are located respectively'''." on this location: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq#Demographics . |
|||
I also recommend that the pie charts be removed as they add no correct information (allow only singular numbers and not a correct “64-69%” approximation). They serve only as eye candy. |
|||
Iraqi Turkmens use a dialect of Azerbaijani Turkish in their daily life, but they use Turkish (of Turkey) as a written language. |
|||
Stop vandalizing this page. [[User:JasonMoore|JasonMoore]] ([[User talk:JasonMoore|talk]]) 15:01, 24 April 2021 (UTC) |
|||
So why isn't Turkish listed in the text ???!!!!! |
|||
== Disagree == |
|||
:I am Iraqi, and it is true that Turkish is very widely used in areas with a Turkmen population concentration. It is not only used in homes, but in public, especially in some places like Kerkouk. Turkish is a more common language that Aramaic, which many Assyrians don't even speak. [[User:Nabuchadnessar|Nabuchadnessar]] ([[User talk:Nabuchadnessar|talk]]) 17:21, 4 March 2008 (UTC) |
|||
::'' Turkish is a more common language that Aramaic, which many Assyrians don't even speak'' - wow what does that even mean? What do you mean Aramaic isn't spoken in Iraq? [[User:Chaldean|Chaldean]] ([[User talk:Chaldean|talk]]) 19:59, 4 March 2008 (UTC) |
|||
Chaldean: Lol sorry, my facts weren't that straight then. I was trying to say that Turkish is a more commonly spoken language than Aramaic in Iraq - which is spoken in Iraq also - but according to what I heard (might be wrong), not as much people speak Aramaic as speak Turkish in Iraq. This is no more than word of mouth, and it might also be due to the Assyrian diaspora (out of Assyrian homeland). Also, a lot of Turkomen we know don't speak Turkish. [[User:Nabuchadnessar|Nabuchadnessar]] ([[User talk:Nabuchadnessar|talk]]) 10:42, 27 March 2008 (UTC) |
|||
Bad idea. These are two seperate pages which should not be toghether in one page. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/78.82.178.37|78.82.178.37]] ([[User talk:78.82.178.37#top|talk]]) 03:10, 17 December 2021 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
== Iraqi Arabization == |
|||
== The percentage of Sunni Arabs == |
|||
Despite majority Iraqis being described as 'Arabs', they are ethnically the decendants of the indiginous semetic Aramaic-speaking population that were [[Arabized|Arabization]] by Arabian Peninsula tribes that converted them to Islam. Reference -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabization#Syria.2FIraq_7th_century |
|||
Can someone please place that bit of info in, as it is written with other Arabized populations like the Syrians and Sudanese. Thanks. [[User:Nabuchadnessar|Nabuchadnessar]] ([[User talk:Nabuchadnessar|talk]]) 17:26, 4 March 2008 (UTC) |
|||
:Other Wikipedia articles can't be used as sources [[User:Chaldean|Chaldean]] ([[User talk:Chaldean|talk]]) 20:00, 4 March 2008 (UTC) |
|||
::Ok, thanks Chaldean, but I think it is kind of obvious, as it talks about the geneological decent briefly in the [[Syrian people]] section. I'll edit it now, without deleting the sourced material like you said, so it wont be vandalism ;). [[User:Nabuchadnessar|Nabuchadnessar]] ([[User talk:Nabuchadnessar|talk]]) 16:19, 26 March 2008 (UTC) |
|||
The percentages have a very large discrepancy, how the Shiites are 63% and they are only 15 million, where you mentioned at the beginning of the article that the Sunni Arabs are 9 million, and the Kurds are 8.4 million, and you mentioned that 98% of the Kurds are Sunnis, and you mentioned that the Turkmen are 3 million and 75% of them are Sunnis The total number of Sunni Arabs, Kurds and Turkmen is 19,650,000 Iraqi Sunnis, or 56.7% of the population of Iraq [[User:سامر القنطي|سامر القنطي]] ([[User talk:سامر القنطي|talk]]) 19:41, 23 February 2022 (UTC) |
|||
== African Iraqis & Zanj Rebellion == |
|||
:According to whom? What reliable sources do you have that backs that up? --[[User:HistoryofIran|HistoryofIran]] ([[User talk:HistoryofIran|talk]]) 19:49, 23 February 2022 (UTC) |
|||
Google yields |
|||
: about 1,890 for "african iraqis". |
|||
a lot of which are new in response to their forming a slate for the next round of elections, inspired by Obama's presidency. What i heard (probably [[Rachel Maddow]]) said there are are 300,000 of them ([[Iraq#Demographics|15 times]] the storied [[Marsh Arabs]]). They are descendants of slaves dating back as far as the first millennium, and [[Zanj Rebellion]] may be our only coverage of them. As a start, i inserted one sentence at [[Iraq#Demographics]]: |
|||
: About 300,000 Iraqis are of African descent, reflecting African slavery practiced there starting before the [[Zanj Rebellion]] of the 9th century. |
|||
--[[User:Jerzy|Jerzy]]•[[User talk:Jerzy|t]] 18:58, 20 January 2009 (UTC)<br> |
|||
Latest revision as of 14:41, 11 October 2024
| This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Demographics of Iraq article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
| Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
| Archives: 1 |
 | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
.svg){kind=small}
Religion statistics a mess
[edit]The figures on religion are a mess and contradictory, not only here but also in other Iraq articles. Are Shia 65% (second paragraph, on top) or 45% (table Religions) ?? Kipala (talk) 23:34, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
Yes they should be fixed. JasonMoore (talk) 14:58, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
Ethnic and Religious Groups a mess as well
[edit]"A report published by the European Parliamentary Research Service": To quote an article and then change the figures is a bit bold, I think. The number of Kurds e.g. is given at 8 million in the Wiki article, whereas the quoted report says 4 million. It is equally interesting how 15 million Shia Arabs and 9 million Sunni Arabs equal 20 million Arabs... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:DF:5F4A:A011:6809:F276:DC33:F8D5 (talk) 16:39, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
Merge from Iraqis
[edit]- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
- The result of this discussion was not merged. (non-admin closure) TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 11:45, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
First of all, both articles seem mostly overlapping, including much of the lead section. Secondly, the claim of Iraqi ethnicity with a strong Arab element is a highly dubious policy of Baathists who were long overthrown; while most modern Iraqis do see themselves merely as Iraqi nationals of distinct ethno-sectarian origins such as Shia Arab, Sunni Arab, Kurdish, Assyrian, Turkomani, etc. Third, we have already merged similar articles such as Libyan people.GreyShark (dibra) 07:56, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
- I support the merge. --Semsûrî (talk) 14:17, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Support per nom Ridax2020 (talk) 13:23, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
I completely disagree, they should be kept as two pages seperatly Shaxi321 (talk) 08:09, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
Support per nom. This page's very existence is not NPOV. --Calthinus (talk) 00:22, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
Strongly disagree, it will be a really shame if another Arab country's people page is eliminated, as has also been done with many countries' people pages in Latin America and the Caribbean, and Oceania. Meanwhile the same is not done for other national people pages. So again, strongly disagree.
I disagree. Iraqi demographics and a page about the people of Iraq are completely different things. Information about a people goes beyond the demography inside a portion of land. − Allice Hunter (Inbox) 16:25, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
disagree, some information may overlap, but they are not the same Mcvti (talk) 19:39, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 11:45, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
Disagree
[edit]These pages should be kept as two separate pagee Shaxi321 (talk) 08:09, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
You are a clear vandal and have been caught breaking the WP:TDE rules for some time now. You should not be editing Wikipedia pages with this kind of dishonesty. JasonMoore (talk) 14:58, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
April 2021 - Stop Vandalizing Religion Statistics
[edit]There are clear Sunni bias vandals who are changing the statistics to favour them. The information from the CIA World Factbook is the latest and its information has been updated.
I also recommend that the pie charts be removed as they add no correct information (allow only singular numbers and not a correct “64-69%” approximation). They serve only as eye candy.
Stop vandalizing this page. JasonMoore (talk) 15:01, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
Disagree
[edit]Bad idea. These are two seperate pages which should not be toghether in one page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.82.178.37 (talk) 03:10, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
The percentage of Sunni Arabs
[edit]The percentages have a very large discrepancy, how the Shiites are 63% and they are only 15 million, where you mentioned at the beginning of the article that the Sunni Arabs are 9 million, and the Kurds are 8.4 million, and you mentioned that 98% of the Kurds are Sunnis, and you mentioned that the Turkmen are 3 million and 75% of them are Sunnis The total number of Sunni Arabs, Kurds and Turkmen is 19,650,000 Iraqi Sunnis, or 56.7% of the population of Iraq سامر القنطي (talk) 19:41, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
- According to whom? What reliable sources do you have that backs that up? --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:49, 23 February 2022 (UTC)