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== early 1900s ==
An editor has added a *very long* segment of text relating to a minor issue. It should be moved to a separate article or shortened very much. A full length essay does not belong here. [[User:Valentinian|Valentinian]] <sup>[[User_talk:Valentinian|(talk)]]</sup> 18:52, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
Two-Headed Eagle was the name of a monarchist organization and its periodical, associated with the Black Hundreds in the Ukraine. Members like Galkin (who claimed to be its founder), Golubev, Rozmitalsky, and Father Fyodor Sinkevich testified at the Mendel Beilis trial. Sinkevich ran for the Duma in 1912; his opponent was Dmitry Grigorevich Barsky, an attorney on Beilis' defense team. See A. S. Tager's Tsarist Russia and the Beilis Case, and also the trial transcripts at ldn-knigi.
[[Special:Contributions/71.163.114.49|71.163.114.49]] ([[User talk:71.163.114.49|talk]]) 16:41, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
:That ''may'' be appropriate for inclusion. Can you provide a little more information to help us find reliable secondary sources, please? I may be able to find Tager's book (written in English, I hope?) but since I can't read Russian, the [http://ldn-knigi.lib.ru/ ldn-knigi] web site may be more difficult to use. It helps ''me'' that it's also in German, but that's just me, and site searches for ''Doppeladler'' found no results, so I still don't see the source there. <span style="font-family:Frankenstein SF, Luftwaffe, Fraktur, Old English Text MT;">[[User:Wilhelm_meis|Wilhelm Meis]]</span> <span style="font-family:Helvetica;">([[User talk:Wilhelm_meis|&#9742; Diskuss]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/Wilhelm_meis|&#x270D; Beiträge]])</span> 17:42, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
# Black Hundreds in the Russia. The Ukraine is kollaborantum<ref>И. В. Омельянчук Черносотенное движение на территории Украины. Монография. — Киев, 2000</ref>--[[User:Вакуленко-К. Володимир|Вакуленко-К. Володимир]] ([[User talk:Вакуленко-К. Володимир|talk]]) 09:51, 26 December 2017 (UTC)


{{ref-talk}}
== The essay in question ==


==Untitled==
I removed this from the article. If anybody wants to shorten/edit or put it in a new article, here it is:
translate https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Двоголовий_орел--[[User:Вакуленко-К. Володимир|Вакуленко-К. Володимир]] ([[User talk:Вакуленко-К. Володимир|talk]]) 23:54, 12 January 2018 (UTC)


== Edit reversion on Double-headed eagle page ==
THE ORIGINS OF THE SELJUKID DOUBLE-HEADED EAGLE AS A COSMOLOGICAL SYMBOL / Author: Ali Uzay Peker Middle East Technical University, Ankara/Turkey
{{discussion moved from|User_talk:Vanjagenije|'''[[User:Vanjagenije|<span style="color:#008B8B;">Vanjagenije</span>]] [[User talk:Vanjagenije|<span style="color: #F4A460;">(talk)</span>]]''' 13:56, 26 July 2019 (UTC)}}
Hello!


You reverted an edit I made recently to the [[Double-headed_eagle|"Double-headed Eagle" page]], and I wondered if you'd be willing to discuss it and help me understand why you did so.
Schuyler Camman, one of the rare scholars who fused ethnographical field research with art historical study, points to the frequent occurrence in Central Asia of a symbolic gate of heaven (Janua Coeli, Oculus in Roman) which was alternatively named Sun-gate on top of the Cosmic Axis leading into heaven, beyond which dwelt God, or the gods. He asserts that the giant bird or the double-headed eagle placed on top of the town pillars i.e. axis mundi, represents the metaphysical sun which reflects the light of the Celestial Glory behind it. The eagle, double-headed or not, is at the same time a gate, for its representations in the arts of entire Asia had a hole on its breast to signify the Sun-gate through which the Divine Light streams outward.(1) According to Cammann, the ideas associated with the sun reverence were transmitted through the teachings of Mani from Persia to China by Manichean Uighur Turks providing a link between these two countries. (2) Moreover, it is generally agreed that the Persian ideas originated from the Mesopotamian cosmology. Hence, the Persian eagle was a descendant of the well-known Sumerian sun and sky symbol, the solar eagle. The storm dragon Zu (Imgig or Imdigud) occupies an important place in Sumero-Akkadian myths. It became a symbol of the Sun- War- and Irrigation-god Ninurta after subdued by him in a gigantic conflict. Imdugud or Zu was the monstrous version of the eagle, a symbol of the Sun-god and was represented on artifacts as a lion-headed eagle. Its double-headed version is present on a seal of Urdun (2450-2250 B.C.) behind the throne of god Ningirsu.(3) According to Langdon, the double-headed eagle is a characteristic symbol of the twin-god (Sun-God), for the Sun-god had a double character. He radiates benevolent (in spring), at the same time malevolent (in summer) light.(4) The Sumero-Akkadian tradition of putting solar symbols on seals continued in northern Mesopotamia and Anatolia. The double- or single-headed eagles on seals were used in Anatolia in the beginning of the second millenium B.C. before the coming of the Hittites by the Hattians, an indigenous population of Asia Minor. Hattians worshipped the Sky-god like the Syrians. They borrowed the eagle from Syria where it was a symbol of the Sky-god.(5) Worship of a Sky-god as the predominant deity among others was a Syrian religious practice. His name was Ba'al Sammin (Baal of the Sky) and the eagle (Sun-bird) was his bird who carries his servants and representatives in the world below to their master. This was a widespread belief in Roman times which originated from Syria.(6) Religious uranography of the Syrians placed the residence of the supreme divinity above the planets and stars. Hence the abode of the superior being was placed over the limits of the universe and the light-giving sun was accepted as the image and manifestation of predominant might, as the mediator between men and unattainable god.(7)Sun-bird, the eagle, as the only earthly being which could reach the realm of the god, was a mediator providing communication between men and their god, Ba'al Sammin. In the Hittite period in Anatolia the double-headed eagle is carved on stamp seals and in stone. Among the Yazilikaya sculptures in Hattusas (14th-13th c.) a double-headed eagle is rendered as a footstool supporting from below the two goddesses, Mezzula and Zintuhi, the daughter and grand-daughter of the Sun-goddess of Arinna.(8) The two lituus like strings coming from the back of its wings closely connects this double-headed eagle of the Hittites to the winged disk of Egypt, Syria and Assyria. The Syrian kings of Mitanni, who worshipped Mithra, Varuna and other Indian gods and spoke an Indo-European language, had firstly adopted the Egyptian winged disk and assimilated it into a concept of a sky symbol supported on a pillar, such as is mentioned in the Rigveda. The Egyptian winged-disk had an enormous prestige as symbol of 'imperial power' for these peoples, but they adapted it to their beliefs. The Hittites took the symbol from Syria, where it had become confused with the Babylonian sun symbol, the eagle.(9) Over the doors of Egyptian temples the winged disk of the sun was placed to keep the demons away from the building.(10) The images of the monstrous bird Zu functioning as a protective charm were placed in the same way at the entrances to the gates of the temple of Ishtar in Arbela by the Assyrian king Asarhaddon (680-69 B.C.).(11) Placing protective charms over the gates is an old Oriental tradition going back to Sumerian times. Old Sumerian myths contain episodes dealing with the gates of heaven over which guardians were placed. In a cylinder seal impression showing a libation scene a gate can be seen over which is placed the so-called eagle of Lagash.(12) Similarly, at the entrance to a special district (temple or palace, from 14th century B.C.) at Alaca Höyük, in Anatolia, a double-headed eagle figure is represented on the door jamb. (13) The eagle here, like the Janus god of the Romans, most probably functions as a symbol of the gate and as a door-keeper. The eagle was adapted on the winged disk of the Assyrian god Ashur whose prestige, according to Frankfort was supplied by the Egyptian kingship.(14) In Assyrian art the eagle's wings replaced the wings of the sparrow-hawk of the Egyptian winged disk and the eagle's pennated tail which was lacking in the Egyptian samples was added.(15) The reason of this change could be the importance attributed earlier to the representation of the sacred bird, the eagle and its derivative, Imdugud in Mesopotamia.(16) Concomitantly god Ashur can be considered the Assyrian form of the Sumerian War- and Sun-god Ningirsu.(17) God Ashur emerges from within the sun circle as the embodiment of the sun's beneficient light in peace and the harmful corrosiveness in war.(18) The Achaemenid kingdom borrowed the Assyrian winged disk and depicted it on the monuments and on cylindrical seals. Ahura Mazda who is an equivalent of Ba'al Sammim in Persia, replaced Ashur in between the wings of the disc. The two upper head-like appendages of some winged disks most probably symbolize the bilateral conception of the religious faith; on the one side Spenta Mainyu (the Holy Spirit) and on the other Anra Mainyu (the destroying Spirit). Ahura Mazda, the supreme and primordial spirit, whose throne is in the realm of eternal light, is probably symbolized by the circled disk of the sun between the wings.(19) The eagle as a mythological and religious symbol appeared in arts in almost all periods of Persian history. It is depicted on a harness ornament from the Parthian period with a heart shaped perforation on the breast, which is filled with a precious transparent stone.(20) The perforation is applied so as to give a sign of its direct attribution to the winged disk of the Achaemenid kingdom. Similarly, a double-headed eagle on a silver plate from the Sassanian period repeats the innovation with a heart motif in the middle of its wide frontal breast.(21) During the Sassanid era confronting eagles with triple anchor motifs on the wings and breast are displayed on textiles.(22) According to Ackerman the anchor motif was a conspicuous figure on the coins of Elymais (Elam, Khuzistan, in the south-west) where it functioned as a sky symbol. She attributes the eagle inside the Sassanian sphere to Khuzistan on the border between Iran and Mesopotamia.(23) As it is clear the eagle in Persia was a symbol of the sky and relatedly was a symbol of the 'Sky-door'. Before the phoenix-form Simurgh, there was apparently no established convention for representing the Simurgh in Persia. Therefore, it is possible that the single-, double-, and triple-headed Sun-bird (eagle) types may reflect earlier stages in its depiction which have survived in the conservative folk tradition.(24) Parsism associates the bird Simurg with the gate of the world. In late Muslim Persian literature which was completely based on old Persian tradition Simurgh inhabits the mountain Kaf (Alburz in Persian thought). The cosmic mountain surrounding the earth and having gates on its four quarters exists in almost all Near Eastern cosmologies. In Muslim tradition it is said that the sun rises from Mount Kaf and in Sumerian epic Gilgamesh, a mountain (Mashu) surrounding the earth or some part of it has gates in the characteristic points of the four directions. Furthermore by the 'two brazen mountains of Zecharja', is meant the gate in the East (Zecharja VI/1).(25) We have already seen that the eagle was a symbol of the Sun-god in Sumer emerging each morning from behind the mountains in the East.(26) These cosmological concepts supports the view that the solar eagle living in the mountain chain limiting the earth on the four sides and providing passage to the sun each day, was a symbol of the Sky- and Sun-gate together with the mountain. To these concepts the sacred-tree can be added, for the eagle is frequently not only associated but also fused with the tree on many seal impressions.(27) Beyond the borders of Persia proper the double-headed eagles are found in temples at Qyzil, which were built by the Manichean and Buddhist Turks.(28) These eagles are identified as Garudas because these eagles, like the Indian eagle-headed anthropoid god Garuda, represented as the foes of the Nagas (serpents) which are rendered in their beaks. In Southern India the double-headed eagle became popular as Ganda Berunda.(29) The rulers of Vijaynagara adopted the title of Ganda Berunda from the earliest times. Ganda Bherunda is still used as the vehicle of idols carried in processions together with the wish-giving celestial tree and the double headed eagle is the crest of the royal family of Mysore in India.(30) The eagle found its way even to China. Chinese double-headed bird Feng Huang is described as symbolising the moment of perfect balance between the two principles which govern the sun. Red and gold colours are associated with Feng Huang like Egyptian bird Phoenix, Indian Garuda or Siberian Toyon Kotor. Shang and early Chou representations of the bird were clearly those of a bird of prey; from the middle Chou period onwards it began to lose its claws and change its shape in similar to the Western Simurg.(31) The eagle had a long past not only in the cultivated valleys of the Southern Asia and China, but at the same time in the plateaus of Central and Northern Asia. Among the Uralo-Altaic peoples the eagle was respected as a cult object since the earliest periods. It was considered to be the creator of the first shaman and bore the name of the Supreme Being, Ai (the Creator) or Ai Toyon (the 'Creator of Light'). Ai Toyon's children were represented as bird-spirits perching in the branches of the world Tree, at the top of which was the two-headed eagle, Toyon Kotor ('the Lord of the Birds') probably personifying Ai Toyon himself.(32) Dolgans thought that the eagle is a Sky-bird closing to the people the gate of the sky with its large wings.(33) The fact that the eagle was at the same time a symbol of the Sky-gate is approved by the presence of perforations on the breast of some eagle representations which were a part of the shamanizing ceremonies.(34) Similarly in Assyrian art, the winged disk, with or without the god Ashur, is placed over the sacred tree. But this disposition had earlier connections with the 'pillar supporting heaven' which was introduced to northern Mesopotamia by the Mitannians at the end of the eighteenth century B.C. (35) The association of the 'sacred tree' with the disk before the Middle Assyrian times was a result of the assimilation of the alien conception of the 'pillar of heaven' with the autochthonous ritual object, the 'sacred tree'.(36) However, this practice of placing the eagle on top of the 'town pillars' seems to have a very long past preceding the Mesopotamian beginnings. It is more constructive to interpret these cult elements as the outcome of certain basic universal concepts existing in the cosmologies of sedentary and nomadic peoples of entire Asia, amongst which the 'pillar of heaven', the 'sacred tree', the Sky-eagle and the 'gate of heaven or sky' are the most common ones. Long after the Mitannian flow to Northern Mesopotamia in the beginning of the second millenium B.C., another large group of people came from the North-East and invaded Persia and Northern Mesopotamia in the beginning of the second millenium A.D. These were the Seljuks from Turco-Mongolian stock, who had a nomadic past like the Indo-European Mitannians. In this period we once more find the intervention of the Asian nomadic culture in the sedentary culture of Mesopotamia after four millenia. For this reason, as in the case of the Assyrian winged disk, many sources can be given to explain the double-headed eagle of the Seljuks too. Sumerian solar eagle or lion-headed eagle Imdugud, Islamic 'cosmic cock', peacock, Nasr (the eagle), Uqab (vulture), Anuq (anqa) or Roc, Persian Simurgh, Saena or Sen, Eurasian Toyon Kotor, Garide, Minley, Kara Kuþ,Bürküt or Merküt can be cited as definite samples. Not only the eagle itself but some certain concepts which were related to it before by the peoples of various origins can be found in Turkish cosmology. For example, Central Asian Turks thought of their tent as a sky-dome, the pillar of the tent as a sky-post and the tent shaft as a sky-door. The tent was a model of the world. They further imagined that the earth was separated from the space by a sky-dome, the symbol of the micro-cosmos wich was related to the world. They called the sky circling the earth kalýk comprising the micro-cosmos. Kök-kalýk, on the other hand, was beyond the sky in infinite space. The Great God was believed to be residing in this 'High-sky' above the moon, the sun and the stars.(37) This inattainable, higher sky (:Empyrean in the European Middle Ages) which is similar to the above-stated abode of the superior being of the Syrians, is another universal concept which can be found even in the cosmologies of the pre-Columbian cultures of South America. In Mayan cosmology it is called Hunabku which was the essence and the last source of everything.(38) The double- or single-headed eagles rendered in Seljukid art resemble their ancient prototypes in respect of their stylistic features. On a bronze plaque from the Artukid period found in Mesopotamia, the double-headed eagle with spread wings and a crescent on the breast is depicted.(39) In the horseshoe-shaped crescent a male figure stands in the manner of Assyrian god Ashur or Persian Ahura Mazda emerging from winged disk. The crescent is a reminiscent of the sun disk's circle between the wings of the sun disk. In the Sumerian myth of Etana and the Plant of Birth, the eagle carries Etana to heavens to find the sacred birth plant. The flight of Etana on the back of the eagle is represented on cylinder seals.(40) This ascension theme later transferred to Persia in around the 12-11 centuries B.C. and Anahid replaced Etana on Sassanian silver plates.(41) From Persia it found its way to Petcheneq Turks living near lake Balkash before they came to the vicinity of Don river in 889. On a gold vase in Nagyszentmiklos treasury (900-920 A.D.) of the Petcheneqs, the ascension theme is represented with the Sky-eagle holding the Persian goddess Anahit in front of its breast.(42) Moreover, following the Persian tradition anthropoid male figures are subject to ascension on the breast of the Sky-eagles on Buyid silk fabrics from the 11-12th centuries.(43) Through these samples and the details of the ascension theme on the Artukid bronze plaque, the Mesopotamian origin of the Islamic ascension theme is properly evidential. In Assyrian art some winged disk compositions have on the wings infront and behind the god Ashur, two bearded heads which together with Ashur represent Anu-Bel-Ea great Triad with Ashur in the place of Bel.(44) On a coin of the Artukid prince Nasir-Ad Din Mahmud of Amid (1200-1222 A.D.) an eared double-headed eagle with a man's bearded head on each wing, is represented in the middle.(45) This composition is not more than a follower of the triad of the winged disk of the Assyrian and Achaemenid monuments. It is probable that this triad survived for centuries on the coins and its form survived at the time of the Artukid period in Northern Mesopotamia. The reason of this is the tolerance of the Turkoman princes to put on the coins the old symbols of their vassals.(46) Another Mesopotamian element that penetrated Seljukid art is the perforation on the breast of the sky eagles in place of the circle of the Assyrian sun disk. On a polychrome engraved Seljukid plate from the 11th century, the Sky-eagle is frontally depicted with a prolonged split on the breast, which represents the Sky-gate.(47) The scrolls extending from the wing tips of this eagle indicate the classical eagle-tree of Mesopotamia Following the Mesopotamian tradition Seljukid eagle's character as the Sky-gate is particularly marked by its orientation on architectural works. The Sky-eagle is placed above one of the gates of the Konya wall (1221) in the pointed arch, on the external side of the defence tower.(48) Furthermore, Ýnce Minareli Museum in Konya contains eared double-headed eagles with the disk of the Assyrian winged disk reduced to a crescent in between their tail and body carved in stone brought from the gates of the Konya wall.(49) These Sky-eagles as the symbols of the Sky-or Sun-door indicate the entrance to the city i.e. the abode of God as a cosmos created by man after its prototype in heavens. Likewise The double-headed eagle can be found on the western gate of the Divriði Ulu Mosque.(50) This Sky-eagle as well is a symbol of the gate of heavens which is substantiated by the portal of the mosque i.e. the house of God. The double-headed Sky-eagle is also a part of a cosmic diagram rendered on some Seljukid buildings.(51) In this diagram the three-levelled universe is represented with sacred tree compositions. The Sky-eagle stands on top of the sacred tree in front of an iwan-like niche as a symbol and keeper of the Sky-door in between the sky symbolized by the foliage and higher sky. The double-headed eagle was applied as an abstracted ornamental device in Seljukid art.(52) It could alternate with the lotus which was a sun-symbol in Persia, or could even change into its form. If the crested heads of a double-headed eagle are placed back to back the basic form of a lotus type palmette is obtained.(53) The lotus type palmette of Islamic art, which is wrongly called 'palmette', is most probably made up of a combination between the lotus, the palmette and the crested double-headed eagle. As an example, Asik Paþa grave stone (1333) in Kýrþehir has a round medallion in which the heads and legs of a double-headed eagle are abstracted as lotus type palmettes.(54) On the breast of the eagle a star-shaped perforation stands for the Sky-gate providing a symbolic passage for the deceased to the other world. The bisected lotus type palmette called 'rumi' was applied in the so-called 'arabesque' decorations throughout the Islamic period. The arabesque decoration not only comprises the eagle as an abstracted figural element but the sacred tree as well, for the sacred tree is associated with the eagle in Mesopotamia since the earliest periods.(55) According to Öney the 'arabesque' decoration in the background of the double-headed eagle figures in Seljukid art represents the 'tree of life'. (56) As a matter of fact 'arabesque' is not only the abstraction of the 'sacred tree' but the eagle as well. In the so-called arabesque compositions the double-headed eagle is fused with the sacred tree. In this kind of a decoration from Seyid Harun Tomb (1320) in Seydiþehir the lotus type palmettes and rumis spring from within the crescent-shaped disk between the tail and body of a double headed eagle. The Sky- or Sun-gate is indicated with a perforated lotus type palmette in place of the eagle's breast in the middle.(57) Cammann points to this stylization or abstraction of the double-headed eagle in Islamic art. It is not known when and where this change took place, which most probably occured before Islamic times. The stylized representations of the double-headed Sky-eagle took a prominent place in Anatolian, Caucasian and Transylvanian rug designs, because, people thought it a powerful talisman. The stylized double-headed eagles were extensively used on the rug borders, and on or around the niche on the prayer rugs both of which were considered as symbolic doors.(58) GündoGdu asserts that the crested and eared eagle figures found in Pazyryk kurgan (VI-V. c. B.C.) are the forerunners of the late 'rumi' motifs . Furthermore, he shows some lotus type palmettes (:'palmette' in Gündoðdu's terminology) from Pazyryk as the prototype of the Islamic lotus type palmettes.(59) These lotus type palmettes from Pazyryk have openings in the middle, which remind the sun circle. According to Rudenko Asiatic Sakian and Altaian tribes evidently experienced the influence of Near Eastern art, in its Persian variety in particular. Representations of gryphons serve as convincing evidence of this. The best and most diversely treated eared and crested eagles, on the other hand, are of Asiatic origin.(60) Then it will not be contrary to reason to suggest that the abstraction of the eared and crested eagle occured somewhere in the north of Central Asia in the centuries before Christ; for the abstraction or the stylization of the natural art motifs was a general tendency of the so-called Eurasian animal style. Even though the single-headed eagle and the griffon were extensively applied, the Near Eastern double-headed eagle is lacking in the Eurasian animal style.(61) Since the lotus flower, the sacred tree and the eagle were solar symbols in the ancient Near East, and the eagle was associated with or replaced the sacred palm tree in Mesopotamia, it is better to say that the lotus type palmette was an abstracted offspring of a coalescence between the three solar symbols: the eagle, the palmette and the lotus. There is a widespread belief that the Seljukid double-headed eagle was the insignia of the Anatolian Seljukid Sultans.(62) The eagle's use as an emblem finds its origin in the earliest periods of Mesopotamian history. Ward asserts that the lion headed-eagle was the particular emblem of the kings of Lagash and equally was the emblem of Ningirsu (Ninurta.(63) Langdon, more accurately, connects the emblem directly to the War- and Sun-god Ninurta whose cult under various local names was prominent in the cities represented by the lion-headed eagle.(64) Hence the lion-headed eagle as an emblem did not belong to a single city, but to the cities where the Sun-god was the chief among the other gods. Its heavenly other than earthly symbolism was more accentuated throughout the centuries. The Seljukid single- or double-headed eagle follows its prototype in this respect. On the breast of a double-headed eagle found on an octagonal tile fragment in Beyþehir Kubadabad palace (1236), an inscription which reads El-Sultan, is peculiarly rendered following the Islamic Persian prototypes.(65) Because of the inscription on the breast of the Kubadabad eagle, the double-headed eagle is accepted as a personal emblem of Sultan Alaeddin Keykubad.(66) Berchem, on other grounds, assumes the double-headed eagle on the southern gate of Divrigi Great Mosque as an emblem of Alaeddin Keykubad in pointing the origin of the Seljuks from the Qiniq (Kinik) tribe of the Oghuz clan whose totemic animal was a goshawk (Accipiter gentilis) called tchaqir (çakir).(67) Moreover, he explains the double-headed eagle on the walls of Diyarbakýr as a personal emblem which is related to the Artukid ruler Mahmud's (1200-1222) title 'Sultan'. He tends to suppose that the two heads of the eagle either represent Kaifa and Amid cities or the dual might of the kingship or political and marital attachments.(68) However, there is no conclusive evidence to support the view that the double-headed eagle was an emblem of the Seljukid Sultans. Mayer thinks that the identification of the name of some animals, particularly, of birds, with the name of Islamic sovereigns is not clearly supported by written documents.(69) According to Gabriel it is the simplest idea to attribute heraldic values to the enigmatic figures on the walls of Diyarbakir, and there is no explicit inscription to interpret them.(70) Islamic heraldry did not have special badges belonging to Islamic cities or counties.(71) As a matter of fact Islamic cities could not possess emblems because of the lack of personnalité juridique and dynastic blazons are rare.(72) There is not enough knowledge to justify the heraldic quality of the double-headed eagles which can be found in many places in Islamic arts. Mayer includes the double headed eagles painted at the bottom of Saracenic pots in his list of Saracenic blazons; however, indicating the lack of written documents, he does not attribute them to any sovereign of the period.(73) The title 'Sultan' on the breast of the Konya eagles denotes a moral and magical authority in the Kor'an and the prophets received this sultan from God. Sultan also has the meaning of 'power' in the Kor'an and the aspect of governmental power was attached to the word sultan in the early centuries of Islam. In the literature of Hadith the governmental power is the shadow of Allah upon earth. The Seljuks were the first for whom sultan had become a regular title for a ruler.(74) As it is clear that the word originates from a religious term which acquired in time a new aspect as a title for an earthly ruler. The eagle was related to the term, because it was originally a heavenly symbol, a representative of the sun gods and a tutelary of kings and heros in Mesopotamia. At the same time it was a symbol and keeper of the gate of the god's domain in the upper sky, through which his authority or power (sultan in Islamic terminology) emanates. In Islamic times the people or even the Sultan himself could have interpreted the double-headed eagle as the symbol of God's power on the earth; then, as the embodiment of the Sultan's power suggested by a false concept showing the Sultan as the shadow of Allah upon the earth. As far as we know today, this identification did not comprise Western heraldic allusions. On the other hand, there is another Islamic version of the eagle which can be more directly related to royal symbolism. It was called Huma and was a symbol of God's immaterial nature. In Sadi's Gülistan Huma is considered to be a good omen and Huma's shadow falling on a person's head predicted his elevation to loyalty. The epithet Humayun meant 'august, royal fortunate and good omen' and Humay with the same meaning became a proper name.(75) But, Huma of Islamic literature symbolizes the eagle's association with the king but not with any particular one. The double- or single-headed eagle was primarily a messanger and a symbol of the earthly power granted by God.(76) / NOTES AND REFERENCES:


I recently heard about President Trump appearing with a fake presidential seal bearing a double-headed eagle, along with some comments about the significance of that symbol. I went to Wikipedia to learn more about the symbol, and found a wealth of useful information. I thought that a notable modern (albeit satirical) use of the symbol was relevant and worth adding to the page. You obviously disagreed, but did not lay out your reasoning. You've got a lot more experience with Wikipedia than I do. Can you explain why you felt my edit was "highly irrelevant"?
(1) Schuyler Cammann, "Symbolic Meanings in Oriental Rug Patterns, II", Textile Museum Journal, III/3 (Washington, 1972) pp. 25,28,37,38.
(2) Ibid., p. 41.
(3) For a drawing of the seal see S.H., Langdon, The Mythology of All Races,Vol.V: Semitic, ed. by C.J.A.Culloch (New York, 1964) fig.54. The figures at the end of the text are taken from these sources which are given to illustrate the text.
(4) Ibid., p. 116
(5) O.R. Gurney, The Hittites, (London, 1975) pp. 134,140-1
(6) Franz Cumont, After Life in Roman Paganism, (New York, 1959) pp. 101-02.
(7) Franz Cumont, Les Religions Orientales dans le paganisme Romain (Paris, 1929) pp. 118-9, 123-4.
(8) Henri Frankfort, The Art and Architecture of the Ancient Orient, (London, 1954) pp. 125-6; for the Yazýlýkaya reliefs see J.G. Macqueen, The Hittites and Their Contemporaries in Asia Minor, (Southampton, 1975) illst. 46.
(9) Frankfort, The Art and Architecture............., p. 117; Gurney, op.cit., p212; Henri Frankfort, Cylinder Seals, (London, 1965) p. 209.
(10) J.A. Mac Culloch, "Door", Encyclopaedia of Religion and Ethics, vol. IV (Edinburgh, 1911) p. 850; for a drawing of an Egyptian winged disk see C. Goblet d'Alviella, The Migration of Symbols, trans. by G. Birdwood (New York, 1956)fig.111.
(11) Langdon, op.cit., p. 108.
(12) For a drawing of the seal see W.H. Ward, Cylinder Seals of Western Asia, (Washington, 1910) illst. 100.
(13) For a picture of the door see Gurney, op.cit., plt. 9.
(14) Frankfort, op.cit., p. 67.
(15) For a drawing of a double image showing the eagle and the winged disk from Assyrian period see A.J. Wensinck, "Tree and Bird as Cosmological Symbols in Western Asia", Verhandelingen der Koninklijke Akademie van Wetenschappen te Amsterdam. Afdeeling Letterkunde, (Amsterdam, 1921) fig. 28.
(16) D'Alviella, op.cit., p. 216; Frankfort, op.cit., p. 67.
(17) Frankfort, loc.cit.
(18) For a drawing of the anthropoid winged disk see d'Alviella, op.cit., fig. 118.
(19) Ibid., pp59-60; for a cylinder seal impression showing such a Persian winged disk see Frankfort, Cylinder Seals, fig. 37c.
(20) For the figure see Mario Bussagli, "Parthian Art", Encyclopaedia of World Art, (London, 1966) plt 58.
(21) For the plate see Umberto Scerrato, "Sassanian Art", Encyclopaedia of World Art, (London, 1966) plt. 396.
(22) For a drawing of such eagles on a wool compound cloth from Sassanian period see A.U. Pope (ed.), A Survey of Persian Art from the Prehistoric Times to the Present, (London-Toronto-New York, 1963) fig. 248.
(23) Phyllis Ackerman, "Textiles Through the Sassanian Period", A Survey of Persian Art, vol. II, ed. by A.U. Pope (London-New York-Toronto, 1963) p. 706.
(24) Schuyler Cammann, "Ancient Symbols in Modern Afghanistan", Ars Orientalis, II (1957) p. 33.
(25) Wensinck, op.cit., p.42.
(26) For a cylinder seal impression showing the Sun-god emerging from the wooded mountains of the East,holding the key of the gate of the sunrise and the eagle, the symbol of luminary descending to it see Frankfort, Cylinder Seals, plt.XIX/a.
(27) For cylinder seal impressions showing the eagle with spread wings making the twigs in place of the sacred-tree see Wensinck, op.cit., figs. 30-2.
(28) For a double-headed eagle on a ceiling of a cave temple see A. von Le Coq, Bilder Atlas Zur Kunst und Kulturgeschichte Mittel asiens, (Berlin, 1925) fig. 236.
(29) For a drawing of a Ganda Bherunda motif on the ceiling of the Virabhatra temple at Keladi see J.P., Souza, "The Double-Headed Eagle", Indica ( the Indian Historical Research Institute Commemorative Volume), (1953) fig. 10.
(30) Ibid., pp. 404-07; for ancient Indian coins with double-headed eagles see ibid., fig. 9 and d'Alviella, op.cit., fig. 7;
(31) R. Pinner, "The Animal Tree and the Great Bird in Myth and Folklore", Turkoman Studies, I, (London, 1980) ss 232-6.
(32) Mircea Eliade, Shamanism: Archaic Technics of Ecstasy, trans. by W.R.Trask, (New York, 1964) pp.69-70; for the Dolgan shaman pillar representing the storeys of heaven with the two-headed lord of the bird on its top see Uno Holmberg, The Mythology of All Races, vol. IV: Fino Ugric, Siberian, ed. by C.J.A. Culloch, New York, 1964, fig. 20.
(33) Bahaeddin Ögel, Türk Mitolojisi: Kaynaklarý ve Açýklamalarý ile Destanlar, vol. I (Ankara, 1989) p. 598.
(34) For the shaman Sky-eagles see ibid., figs. 62a,b,63.
(35) Frankfort, Art and Architecture........, p. 62.
(36) Idem, Cylinder Seals, p. 276.
(37) Bahaeddin Ögel, Türk Mitolojisi, vol. II: Türklerin Feza ve Dünya Anlayýþlarý, (Istanbul, 1971) pp. 139-43.
(38) Joseph campbell, The Mythic Image, (New Jersey, 1974) pp. 91,100.
(39) For the bronze plaque see Gaston Migéon, Manuel d'Art Musulman, vol. I (Paris, 1927) fig. 178.
(40) For such a cylinder seal impression see Frankfort, Cylinder Seals, fig 27h.
(41) For the eagle carrying an anthropoid figure depicted on a gold bowl from Hasanlu see Edith Porada, The Art of Ancient Iran, (New York, 1965) plt.24; for a Sassanian silver plate with Anahid held by the Sky-eagle see Pope (ed.), A Survey of....., fig.306.
(42) For the vase see Gyula Laszlo, The Art of the Migration Period, (Florida, 1974), plt. 151.
(43) For this kind of a silk fabric see Pope (ed.), A Survey of..........., fig.649.
(44) Henri Frankfort, Cylinder Seals, p.214; for such a winged disk see ibid., plt. 33e.
(45) For the coin see S.L. Pool, Coins of the Urtuki Turkumans, (Chicago, 1967), plt. V/3.
(46) Ali Uzay Peker, The Double-Headed Eagle of the Seljuks: A Historical Study, unpublished M.A. D. Thesis, (Bosphorus University, 1989) pp169-70.
(47) For the plate see Pope, op.cit., plt.606.
(48)For the drawings of the gate and the eagle by Léon Laborde see Friedrich Sarre, Konya Köþkü, trans. by Þ. Uzluk, (Ankara, 1967), fig. 2, plt. 2.
(49) For the Sky-eagle see Oktay Aslanapa, Türk Sanatý, (Ýstanbul, 1984) p. 312.
(50) For this Sky-eagle see Gönül Öney, "Anadolu Selçuk Mimarisinde Avcý Kuþlar, Tek ve Çift Baþlý Kartal", Malazgirt Armaðaný, (Ankara,1972) plt. 20.
(51) For the cosmic diagram on the entrance gate of Çifte Minareli Madrasa in Erzurum see Aslanapa, op.cit., p. 151.
(52) Cammann, "Symbolic Meanings in ...... ", pp. 16-7.
(53) For an explanation of the association between lotus, palmette and the double-headed Sky-eagle, and for the denomination of it as 'lotus type palmette' see Peker, op.cit., pp. 153-6.
(54) For a drawing of the composition see Semavi Eyice, "Kýrþehir'de H 709 (=1310) Tarihli Tasvirli Bir Mezar Taþý", Reþit Rahmeti Arat Ýçin, (Ankara, 1966) plt. 14.
(55) For the Mesopotamian eagle-trees on cylinder seals see Wensinck, op.cit., figs. 30-2; for an explanation of the abstracted eagle-tree composing the so-called arabesque decoration see Peker, op.cit., pp. 176 -92.
(56) Öney, op.cit., p.153.
(57) For a drawing of a double-headed eagle-tree abstracted in lotus type palmettes and rumis see Selçuk Mülayim, Türk Mimarisinde Geometrik Süslemeler, Selçuklu Çaðý, (Ankara, 1982) plt. 188/205.
(58) For more information see Cammann, loc.cit
(59) Hamza Gündoðdu, "Ikonografik Açýdan Türk Sanatinda Rumi ve Palmetler", Sanat Tarihinde Ikonografik Arastirmalar, Güner Inal'a Armaðan, (Ankara, 1993) pp.197-211, figs. 5,3; for the drawings of the Pazyryk eagles and palmettes see ibid., fig. 2a,b,1a,b,c.
(60) S.J. Rudenko, "The Mythological Eagle, the Gryphon, the Winged Lion, and the Wolf in the Art of Northern Nomads", Artibus Asiae, XXI/2 (London,1961) pp103,122.
(61) For a study of Eurasian griffon-eagle see Peker, op.cit., pp. 113-22; for the confronting eagles rendered breast to breast on a Sarmatian plaque (third century B.C.) see M. I. Rostovtzeff, The Animal Style in Southern Russia and China, (New York, 1973) plt, 28/3.
(62) Ernst Diez, Türk Sanatý: Baþlangýcýndan Günümüze Kadar, trans. by O. Aslanapa, (Ýstanbul, 1946) p.261; Aslanapa, op.cit., p. 312.
(63) Ward, op.cit., pp. 34,407.
(64) Langdon, op.cit., p. 116.
(65) For the tile see Öney op.cit.,plt. 21; for the double-headed eagles with Arabic inscriptions (:"Let us praise the Lord") on the wings rendered on a Persian silk fabric (11-12th c.) see Pinner, op.cit., fig.518
(66) Öney, op.cit., p. 167.
(67) Joseph Strzygowski and Max van Berchem, Amida, (Heidelberg, 1910) p. 98.
(68) Ibid., pp. 95-6.
(69) L.A. Mayer, Saracenic Heraldry, (Oxford, 1933) pp. 8-9.
(70) Albert Gabriel, Voyages Archéologiques dans la Turquie Orientale, vol. I, (Paris, 1940) p. 120-21, note:121/ 1.
(71) Strzygowski and Berchem, op.cit., p. 82.
(72) M.F. Köprülü, "Ortazaman Türk Devletlerinde Hukuki Senbollerdeki Motifler", Türk Hukuk ve Iktisat Tarihi Mecmuasý, II, (Ýstanbul, 1939) p. 35.
(73) Mayer, op.cit., pp. 8-10.
(74) J.H. Kramers, "Sultan", Encyclopaedia of Islam, vol. IV, (Leiden-London, 1934) pp. 543-45.
(75) Clement Huart, "Huma", Encyclopaedia of Islam, vol. III, (Leiden-London, 1927) p. 572.
(76) For more information see Peker, op.cit., pp. 203-4,214-5.


Should I not have gone into a description of all the edits made to the seal? The double-headed eagle was the most prominent edit. The other edits admittedly aren't relevant. Would only referring to the double-headed eagle change, and displaying the edited image would have been better?
(This article was published with modifications in Art Turc/Turkish Art: Proceedings of the 10th International Congress of Turkish Art (Geneva 17-23, 1995), (Geneva: Fondation Max van Berchem, 1999)pp. 559-566)


Or is the objection that the usage was modern? If so, I'd respectfully disagree.


Or is the objection that it was satirical? If so, can you point me towards Wikipedia guidelines for dealing with that?


Thanks!
[[User:Lord_Eru|<font color= "red">Хајдук Еру</font>]] ([[User_talk:Lord Eru|<font color="blue">Talk</font>]] || [[Special:Contributions/Lord_Eru|<font color="gray">Contributions</font>]]) 00:06, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
[[User:DaBunny42|DaBunny42]] ([[User talk:DaBunny42|talk]]) 13:15, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
:{{ping|DaBunny42}} Such a minor incident is certainly not important enough to be mentioned in this article. It does not help at all in the understanding of this topic. '''[[User:Vanjagenije|<span style="color:#008B8B;">Vanjagenije</span>]] [[User talk:Vanjagenije|<span style="color: #F4A460;">(talk)</span>]]''' 13:56, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
::Belated comment. This incident is described in some detail at [[Seal of the President of the United States#2019 spoof incident]]. I agree that it's not sufficiently noteworthy or relevant to be reported here. [[User:GrindtXX|GrindtXX]] ([[User talk:GrindtXX|talk]]) 18:02, 5 January 2021 (UTC)


== Fundamentalist/Conspiratological Source Citation ==


Footnote 30 links to a non-scholarly fundamentalist Christian source rife with the usual tendentiousness and conspiratological musings characteristic of such sources. It's not something that should be included as a legitimate source for an article whose main purpose is to inform the general reader. The linked article can be found at: https://www.academia.edu/9062169/The_Double_Headed_Eagle_Scottish_Rite_Freemasonrys_Veneration_of_Nimrod if anyone wants to judge for themselves. The purpose of the essay in question is clearly not to inform the general reader, but rather to ask: "...whether Christians should belong to such a fellowship," which clearly has no place in an encyclopedic article. The statement in question ("The so-called Double-Headed Eagle of Lagash is used as an emblem by the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry") should have a citation linking to information from either the Scottish Rite itself or from a reputable scholarly source that doesn't have a sectarian axe to grind with Masonry. Because I don't want to mess up the structure of the citations due to my lack of expertise in making such edits, I wanted to post this before attempting to change or even remove the citation in case anyone with more knowledge of how to make such edits wants to weigh in. [[User:Mpaniello|Mpaniello]] ([[User talk:Mpaniello|talk]]) 04:52, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
:Agreed that the cited source is tendentious and prejudiced. However, the basic point for which it's being cited – that the Scottish Rite uses the double headed eagle as an emblem – appears to be an uncontentious fact. If you'd like to replace it with a more authoritative print or online source (and there seem to be several possibilities on the [[Scottish Rite]] page), please go ahead, or make some suggestions here. If you lack confidence in your abilities to format the reference correctly, other editors will be happy to help, or to tidy up after you. [[User:GrindtXX|GrindtXX]] ([[User talk:GrindtXX|talk]]) 18:24, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
:I see you've done it. That's fine. [[User:GrindtXX|GrindtXX]] ([[User talk:GrindtXX|talk]]) 18:28, 5 January 2021 (UTC)


== Why does the gandaberunda reference not link?? ==
== Confusing paragraph ==


There is an article on gandaberunda. Shouldn't the reference here link to that page? [[Special:Contributions/72.83.12.17|72.83.12.17]] ([[User talk:72.83.12.17|talk]]) 02:18, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
Double headed eagles have been present in imagery for many centuries. A representation of a two-headed woman dating from 6000 BC was discovered in Çatalhöyük (Turkey) one of the oldest cities in the world. Therefore, the apparition of the two-headed eagle is very old, because it can be found in archeologic remains of the Hittite civilization dating from a period that goes between the 20th century BC and the 13th century BC.


== Attributions to Islamic Use ==
...This paragraph has no flow, the mention of a two-headed woman is irrelevant, particularly as a much earlier date for an actual eagle is given just below, there is nothing said before it that Therefore can relate to, and, frankly, needs serious revision [[User:Adam Cuerden]] 12:58, 11 July 2006 (UTC)


Both on this article and several that discuss the topic of the double-headed eagle, there are multiple attempts at linking the imagery to something or anything to do with Islam, such as its use by the ottoman Turks in certain functions after they took down the Byzantine Empire. In this article it is oddly referenced as the source of the material on which the Byzantine eagle was represented. The only problem with giving it any kind of context within the Islamic world is that there are no places in the Islamic world where eagles live. They appear in mountainous areas of greece, Montenegro and Serbia and therefore they appear on their imagery. There are no Eagles in the desert. There are falcons and hawks. [[User:Historiaantiqua|Historiaantiqua]] ([[User talk:Historiaantiqua|talk]]) 10:06, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
I agree here this paragraph is missing information and has no flow. The mentioning of the two-headed women in connection to the two-headed eagle is missing. Further,s icne there is already an older date that shows the rich history of the two-headed eagle, it probably is not worth mentioning. What's the point of this paragraph?


== Shouldn't the Modern Use section have a pop-culture sub-section? ==
Also the entire excerpt on above contains good information but it is all put together without seperation. The information above is too long and needs paragraphs for an easier flow.


I'm asking because the nominal human faction of Warhammer 40,000 (the Imperium of Man) uses a stylized double-headed eagle as its symbol. [[Special:Contributions/71.247.10.205|71.247.10.205]] ([[User talk:71.247.10.205|talk]]) 06:55, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
== Usage by the Turks ==

I removed the sentence refered to the Turkic shamanism. Not only it was unsourced, but in fact has nothing to do with this article... The article is about the double-headed eangle, not the one headed. if we are about to relate every depiction of eangles in ancient, medieval or modern cultures with the '''double-headed''' eangle, perhaps we should assosiate the later with the United States of America and, most importantly, with ancient Greece, since the eangle (talking about the one-headed) was assosiated with [[Zeus]]... Not to mention dozins of other civilisations all over the world. [[User:Hectorian|Hectorian]] 22:05, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

== My theory ==

Okay, it has nothing to do with the artical but i'm a history student at a greek university and I've been thinking (loudly:P), if the left head represents Rome then the reason the left foot of the eagle holds a cross is to symbolize the Ecclesiastical power of the Holy See (Pope of Rome) over the early Catholic Church (before the schism of the byzantine church), for the same reason the right foot holds a symbol of the Emperor. Do you think I've got a point here?

P.S. Please, no fanatic orthodox answers. I'm interested in REAL history here...

--[[User:89.210.81.235|89.210.81.235]] 16:33, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

:Well, the eagle was not adopted until well after the schism (indeed, well after the catastrophic for the Greek-Latin relations events of 1204), and initially it did not include any crosses, orbs, or swords in its claws. These were added much later, from the 15th century onwards, when it was adopted by the HRE and Russia. Either way, no one is quite sure about the interpretation of the bicephaly (East-West, Europe-Asia Minor, Church-State, etc) and the Byzantines were having trouble accepting the papal primacy (which they interpreted as "primus inter pares", and not the sort of universal authority the popes later claimed) quite early on (see the schism of Photius for instance), so it really would be surprising if they were to support it in their imperial Coat of Arms. [[User:Cplakidas|Cplakidas]] 14:45, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

== Teutonic ==
[[Image:TeutonicCoA.png | right | thumb | 150px]]
also in teutonic COA ? [[User:Mallerd|Mallerd]] ([[User talk:Mallerd|talk]]) 16:02, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

:: No, the Teutonic Kinights used a single-headed eagle.
:: [[User:Sv1xv|Sv1xv]] ([[User talk:Sv1xv|talk]]) 16:07, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

==Fair use rationale for Image:GrbRep.jpg==
[[Image:Nuvola apps important.svg|70px|left]]
'''[[:Image:GrbRep.jpg]]''' is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under [[Wikipedia:Fair use|fair use]] but there is no [[Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline|explanation or rationale]] as to why its use in '''this''' Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the [[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags/Fair use|boilerplate fair use template]], you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with [[WP:FU|fair use]].

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[[User:BetacommandBot|BetacommandBot]] ([[User talk:BetacommandBot|talk]]) 22:15, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

== Nazi use? ==

Didn't the Nazis also use the double-headed eagle, as part of the attempt to historically legitimize themselves? Taking it directly from the Holy Roman Empire that they saw as being the "First Riech." <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/4.240.60.138|4.240.60.138]] ([[User talk:4.240.60.138|talk]]) 19:03, 27 February 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:It was just a single headed eagle. The Holy Roman Empire was just incorporated Germany and part of Italy. No real east-west divide like in Byzantium or Russia.

-G

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Latest revision as of 00:07, 14 January 2024

early 1900s

[edit]

Two-Headed Eagle was the name of a monarchist organization and its periodical, associated with the Black Hundreds in the Ukraine. Members like Galkin (who claimed to be its founder), Golubev, Rozmitalsky, and Father Fyodor Sinkevich testified at the Mendel Beilis trial. Sinkevich ran for the Duma in 1912; his opponent was Dmitry Grigorevich Barsky, an attorney on Beilis' defense team. See A. S. Tager's Tsarist Russia and the Beilis Case, and also the trial transcripts at ldn-knigi. 71.163.114.49 (talk) 16:41, 28 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That may be appropriate for inclusion. Can you provide a little more information to help us find reliable secondary sources, please? I may be able to find Tager's book (written in English, I hope?) but since I can't read Russian, the ldn-knigi web site may be more difficult to use. It helps me that it's also in German, but that's just me, and site searches for Doppeladler found no results, so I still don't see the source there. Wilhelm Meis (☎ Diskuss | ✍ Beiträge) 17:42, 28 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  1. Black Hundreds in the Russia. The Ukraine is kollaborantum[1]--Вакуленко-К. Володимир (talk) 09:51, 26 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ И. В. Омельянчук Черносотенное движение на территории Украины. Монография. — Киев, 2000

Untitled

[edit]

translate https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Двоголовий_орел--Вакуленко-К. Володимир (talk) 23:54, 12 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Edit reversion on Double-headed eagle page

[edit]
Moved from User talk:Vanjagenije
 – Vanjagenije (talk) 13:56, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hello!

You reverted an edit I made recently to the "Double-headed Eagle" page, and I wondered if you'd be willing to discuss it and help me understand why you did so.

I recently heard about President Trump appearing with a fake presidential seal bearing a double-headed eagle, along with some comments about the significance of that symbol. I went to Wikipedia to learn more about the symbol, and found a wealth of useful information. I thought that a notable modern (albeit satirical) use of the symbol was relevant and worth adding to the page. You obviously disagreed, but did not lay out your reasoning. You've got a lot more experience with Wikipedia than I do. Can you explain why you felt my edit was "highly irrelevant"?

Should I not have gone into a description of all the edits made to the seal? The double-headed eagle was the most prominent edit. The other edits admittedly aren't relevant. Would only referring to the double-headed eagle change, and displaying the edited image would have been better?

Or is the objection that the usage was modern? If so, I'd respectfully disagree.

Or is the objection that it was satirical? If so, can you point me towards Wikipedia guidelines for dealing with that?

Thanks! DaBunny42 (talk) 13:15, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@DaBunny42: Such a minor incident is certainly not important enough to be mentioned in this article. It does not help at all in the understanding of this topic. Vanjagenije (talk) 13:56, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Belated comment. This incident is described in some detail at Seal of the President of the United States#2019 spoof incident. I agree that it's not sufficiently noteworthy or relevant to be reported here. GrindtXX (talk) 18:02, 5 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Fundamentalist/Conspiratological Source Citation

[edit]

Footnote 30 links to a non-scholarly fundamentalist Christian source rife with the usual tendentiousness and conspiratological musings characteristic of such sources. It's not something that should be included as a legitimate source for an article whose main purpose is to inform the general reader. The linked article can be found at: https://www.academia.edu/9062169/The_Double_Headed_Eagle_Scottish_Rite_Freemasonrys_Veneration_of_Nimrod if anyone wants to judge for themselves. The purpose of the essay in question is clearly not to inform the general reader, but rather to ask: "...whether Christians should belong to such a fellowship," which clearly has no place in an encyclopedic article. The statement in question ("The so-called Double-Headed Eagle of Lagash is used as an emblem by the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry") should have a citation linking to information from either the Scottish Rite itself or from a reputable scholarly source that doesn't have a sectarian axe to grind with Masonry. Because I don't want to mess up the structure of the citations due to my lack of expertise in making such edits, I wanted to post this before attempting to change or even remove the citation in case anyone with more knowledge of how to make such edits wants to weigh in. Mpaniello (talk) 04:52, 4 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed that the cited source is tendentious and prejudiced. However, the basic point for which it's being cited – that the Scottish Rite uses the double headed eagle as an emblem – appears to be an uncontentious fact. If you'd like to replace it with a more authoritative print or online source (and there seem to be several possibilities on the Scottish Rite page), please go ahead, or make some suggestions here. If you lack confidence in your abilities to format the reference correctly, other editors will be happy to help, or to tidy up after you. GrindtXX (talk) 18:24, 5 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I see you've done it. That's fine. GrindtXX (talk) 18:28, 5 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Why does the gandaberunda reference not link??

[edit]

There is an article on gandaberunda. Shouldn't the reference here link to that page? 72.83.12.17 (talk) 02:18, 28 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Attributions to Islamic Use

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Both on this article and several that discuss the topic of the double-headed eagle, there are multiple attempts at linking the imagery to something or anything to do with Islam, such as its use by the ottoman Turks in certain functions after they took down the Byzantine Empire. In this article it is oddly referenced as the source of the material on which the Byzantine eagle was represented. The only problem with giving it any kind of context within the Islamic world is that there are no places in the Islamic world where eagles live. They appear in mountainous areas of greece, Montenegro and Serbia and therefore they appear on their imagery. There are no Eagles in the desert. There are falcons and hawks. Historiaantiqua (talk) 10:06, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Shouldn't the Modern Use section have a pop-culture sub-section?

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I'm asking because the nominal human faction of Warhammer 40,000 (the Imperium of Man) uses a stylized double-headed eagle as its symbol. 71.247.10.205 (talk) 06:55, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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