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==Page Move==
I '''oppose''' the merging of these two articles as "Drone_attacks_on_Pakistan_by_the_United_States_of_America" drone missile attacks are different from "List_of_American_missile_strikes_in_Pakistan" missile attacks as this Drone_attacks article bespeaks about the increased use of drones in warfare. Peace, [[User:Rkmlai|rkmlai]] ([[User talk:Rkmlai|talk]]) 18:44, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top -->

:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[WP:requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]]. No further edits should be made to this section. ''
this topic deserves more detailed coverage as a dedicated detailed article as it is one of the main current campaigns in the [[war on Terrorism]]. most of the info in the List has been incorporated in this article.--[[User:Wikireader41|Wikireader41]] ([[User talk:Wikireader41|talk]]) 16:36, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Why is this article not editable ? I think 2009 death figures should be put in plain numbers instead of text, so it would be more clear that the numbers are increasing. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/69.196.190.38|69.196.190.38]] ([[User talk:69.196.190.38|talk]]) 18:54, 9 April 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Name change ==


The result of the move request was: '''consensus to move''' the page, per the discussion below. [[User:Dekimasu|Dekimasu]]<small>[[User talk:Dekimasu|よ!]]</small> 20:26, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
I'll leave this up for a week before I move it, but I think the title should just be "Drone attacks on Pakistan by the United States," as the actual article for the United States of America is just United States. Thoughts? [[User:AP1787|AP1787]] ([[User talk:AP1787|talk]]) 15:17, 30 May 2009 (UTC)


----
*I would change it to "Drone Attacks in Pakistan by the United States". "On" implies it is an attack on the country itself. These appear to be coordinated attacks on Taliban and AQ targets. Thoughts?--[[User:Yachtsman1|Yachtsman1]] ([[User talk:Yachtsman1|talk]]) 01:02, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
:: these attacks are ON the sovereign territory of Pakistan with most casualties being innocent Pakistani citizens. They are considered a violation of sovereignty by many people in Pakistan including the government. so IN I think is not accurate and could be construed as pushing US POV and sugarcoating the issue. it is very apparent that Pakistanis consider these attacks as an attack on their country and want these stopped asap.[[User:Wikireader41|Wikireader41]] ([[User talk:Wikireader41|talk]]) 02:06, 20 June 2009 (UTC)


[[:Drone attacks in Pakistan]] → {{no redirect|Drone strikes in Pakistan}} – I make this request for these reasons: (1). According to [http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=Drone%20strikes%2C%20drone%20attacks&cmpt=q] 'drone strikes' are a far more common term used, as opposed to 'drone attacks'. (2). This means that Wikipedia common name policy is not being observed with the current title: [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:COMMONNAME&redirect=no] (3). 'Drone attacks' convey a negative skew towards the article, in violation of Wikipedia non-judgmental descriptive policy: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_titles#Non-judgmental_descriptive_titles] (4). Many of the initial references used in the actual article state 'drone strikes': [http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/22/18429089-in-first-public-acknowledgement-holder-says-4-americans-died-in-us-drone-strikes?lite] [http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-24618701] [http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/pakistani-court-declares-us-drone-strikes-in-the-countrys-tribal-belt-illegal-8609843.html] [http://www.voanews.com/content/us-accused-of-unlawful-killings-pakistan-drone-strikes/1774276.html] [[User:Uhlan|'''<span style="color:red">Uhlan</span>'''<span style="color:#FF0000"></span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Uhlan|<span style="color:red">talk</span>]]</sup> 06:16, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
:::Ergo, IN Pakistan. They are not an attack on Pakistan's military, its infrastructure, or any other object that has a military application. And please save the lecture, I have about as much "pull" on dictating American foreign policy as you do. Thank you.[[User:Yachtsman1|Yachtsman1]] ([[User talk:Yachtsman1|talk]]) 04:01, 20 June 2009 (UTC)


::Please comment with either *'''support''' or *'''oppose''' and leave a comment. Should this page be moved? [[User:Uhlan|'''<span style="color:red">Uhlan</span>'''<span style="color:#FF0000"></span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Uhlan|<span style="color:red">talk</span>]]</sup> 06:07, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
:::Let me ask how important would it be for Pakistan to authorize these American incursions into Pakistan's airspace?


*'''Oppose''' equally good references use the phrase "drone attacks in Pakistan" [https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=%22drone+attacks+in+pakistan%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=%22drone+attacks+in+pakistan%22+-strike&channel=fs&tbm=nws] (and this is just a half hearted automated search with no custom queries; proper searches would yield much more). Attack also signifies the grievances of Pakistani public; the fact that Pakistani public is vehemently against the tactic is a significant reason behind Pakistan's changing foreign policy from time to time related to drone attacks. The word "strike" is more appropriate when referring to individual incidents. The current title is [[WP:DUE]]. --<span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">[[User:TopGun|<b style="color:#060">lTopGunl</b>]] ([[User talk:TopGun|<b style="color:#000">talk</b>]])</span> 07:01, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
:::Prior to, and following, the invasion of Normandy American and British aircraft bombarded sites in occupied France. They did so with the approval of the Free French government in exile. So this was not an act of war -- even if the bombardment killed French civilians at the same time.
*'''Support''', a change to a more neutral article name.--[[User:RightCowLeftCoast|RightCowLeftCoast]] ([[User talk:RightCowLeftCoast|talk]]) 22:13, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
*'''Support''', per RightCowLeftCoast [[Special:Contributions/83.11.98.128|83.11.98.128]] ([[User talk:83.11.98.128|talk]]) 19:00, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per nom. Also because this keeps it consistent with the general term [[airstrike]]. [[User:Calidum|<span style="color:#002244; font-family:serif">'''-- ''Calidum'''''</span>]] 23:03, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
*'''Support''', although a weak support, but I can understand the rationale. Strike is probably more neutral. Politically, the term 'attack' also seems to imply as if they are an attack on the State of Pakistan, when they are not (really), as the current and previous governments of Pakistan seem to be knowledgeable and even tolerable of them. So they are not really an attack on Pakistan, but rather foreign strikes occurring with the permission (or complicity, whichever fits best) of Pakistani authorities. In contrast, the title of the article [[2011 NATO attack in Pakistan]] is appropriate as it really was an attack on Pakistan's security forces (and hence the state) and was treated as such by the government. These drone attacks however, as I have said, are not treated as attacks on the state by the Pakistani government, and hence, terming them 'strikes' may be appropriate. '''[[User:Mar4d|<span style="color:green;">Mar4d</span>]]''' ([[User talk:Mar4d|<span style="color:green;">talk</span>]]) 11:50, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
*'''Support''', reasons stated in my original page move argument. [[User:Uhlan|'''<span style="color:red">Uhlan</span>'''<span style="color:#FF0000"></span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Uhlan|<span style="color:red">talk</span>]]</sup> 23:30, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a [[WP:RM|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a [[WP:move review|move review]]. No further edits should be made to this section.''</div><!-- Template:RM bottom -->


== Orphaned references in [[:Drone strikes in Pakistan]] ==
:::Some people suggest that the Pakistan's government's repeated protestations that the drone attacks are not authorized are insincere, and that they really want the USA to continue the strikes, and that the protestations are for domestic political consumption. If we have references to that effect, let's include them. Treating those protestations as if we '''knew''' they were insincere is, I suggest, a serious mistake. That is, I suggest, what the proposed rename would imply -- that the attacks on Pakistani territory had the approval of the Pakistani government. It is, I suggest, a serious lapse from [[WP:NOR]] and [[WP:NPOV]] to imply permission we can't document. [[User:Geo Swan|Geo Swan]] ([[User talk:Geo Swan|talk]]) 06:10, 20 June 2009 (UTC)


I check pages listed in [[:Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting]] to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for [[User:AnomieBOT/docs/OrphanReferenceFixer|orphaned references]] in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of [[:Drone strikes in Pakistan]]'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for ''this'' article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
::::You are actually asking me to presume they are not authorized, Geo Swan? That they are not launched from within Pakistan itself? Have you heard of Diane Feinstein?<ref>http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/02/senator-us-dron/</ref> This is too simple. Thanks for the attempted parallel with WWII. Apples and oranges. As stated, it should be "IN" Pakistan. Thank you.--[[User:Yachtsman1|Yachtsman1]] ([[User talk:Yachtsman1|talk]]) 03:36, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
::::: yes the drones are launched from Shamsi. but did Pakistan authorize the shooting?? They have repeatedly said that they do not want any drone attacks and have never said they would not allow the drone flights (presumably for intelligence gathering). you are just assuming that Pakistan has agreed to the drones attacking targets when all public statements emanating from Pak are to the contrary. yes attacks on Pakistani citizens are attacks ON pakistan even though the pakistani military and civil infrastructure is not targeted. what would you call if Chinese fired a missile on some dissidents who were given asylum in USA ( AKA terrorists) living in LA ?? and please do not assume that I have no control over US policy. you do not know what I do in real life do you ??? :-)[[User:Wikireader41|Wikireader41]] ([[User talk:Wikireader41|talk]]) 14:33, 22 June 2009 (UTC)


<b>Reference named "IMU joins ISIL":</b><ul>
:::::Yachtsman1, would you please consider responding to what your correspondents actually wrote? You seem to have skipped over my final paragraph, in its entirety.
<li>From [[War on Terror]]: {{cite web|url=http://www.khaama.com/uzbek-militants-in-afghanistan-pledge-allegiance-to-isis-in-beheading-video-9962|title=Uzbek militants in Afghanistan pledge allegiance to ISIS in beheading video|website=khaama.com|accessdate=25 June 2015}}</li>
:::::{{quotation|''"Some ... suggest ... Pakistan's ... protestations ... are insincere ... '''If we have references to that effect, let's include them. Treating those protestations as if we KNEW they were insincere is, I suggest, a serious mistake.'''}}
<li>From [[Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant]]: {{cite news |first=Mirwais |last=Adeel |url=http://www.khaama.com/uzbek-militants-in-afghanistan-pledge-allegiance-to-isis-in-beheading-video-9962 |title=Uzbek militants in Afghanistan pledge allegiance to ISIS in beheading video |work=Khaama Press |location=Kabul, Afghanistan}}</li>
:::::If you can supply references that claim Pakistan's protestations are insincere, please provide them now.
<li>From [[Operation Zarb-e-Azb]]: {{cite news| url=http://www.rferl.org/content/imu-islamic-state/27174567.html| title=IMU Declares It Is Now Part Of The Islamic State|date=6 August 2015|publisher=Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty|accessdate=6 August 2015}}</li>
<li>From [[Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan]]: {{cite web|url=http://www.eurasianet.org/node/74471|title=IMU Pledges Allegiance to Islamic State|work=EurasiaNet|date=1 August 2015}}</li>
<li>From [[Insurgency in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa]]: {{cite web|url=http://www.khaama.com/uzbek-militants-in-afghanistan-pledge-allegiance-to-isis-in-beheading-video-9962|title=Uzbek militants in Afghanistan pledge allegiance to ISIS in beheading video|website=khaama.com|accessdate=6 July 2015|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20150713102036/http://www.khaama.com/uzbek-militants-in-afghanistan-pledge-allegiance-to-isis-in-beheading-video-9962|archive-date=13 July 2015|dead-url=no|df=dmy-all}}</li>
</ul>


I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. [[User:AnomieBOT|AnomieBOT]][[User talk:AnomieBOT|<span style="color:#880">⚡</span>]] 22:14, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
:::::Even if you were to find references that indicated that Pakistan's protestations were insincere, unless you were able to find a leaked copy of a secret treaty where Pakistan's government secretly agreed to the opposite of its publicly stated policy positions whatever references you found would be the commentators opinion, and would have to be stated as such, not represented as an unequivocal fact. [[User:Geo Swan|Geo Swan]] ([[User talk:Geo Swan|talk]]) 17:49, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 15:36, 7 December 2024

Page Move

[edit]
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 20:26, 18 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Drone attacks in Pakistan → Drone strikes in Pakistan – I make this request for these reasons: (1). According to [1] 'drone strikes' are a far more common term used, as opposed to 'drone attacks'. (2). This means that Wikipedia common name policy is not being observed with the current title: [2] (3). 'Drone attacks' convey a negative skew towards the article, in violation of Wikipedia non-judgmental descriptive policy: [3] (4). Many of the initial references used in the actual article state 'drone strikes': [4] [5] [6] [7] Uhlan talk 06:16, 12 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Please comment with either *support or *oppose and leave a comment. Should this page be moved? Uhlan talk 06:07, 12 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose equally good references use the phrase "drone attacks in Pakistan" [8] (and this is just a half hearted automated search with no custom queries; proper searches would yield much more). Attack also signifies the grievances of Pakistani public; the fact that Pakistani public is vehemently against the tactic is a significant reason behind Pakistan's changing foreign policy from time to time related to drone attacks. The word "strike" is more appropriate when referring to individual incidents. The current title is WP:DUE. --lTopGunl (talk) 07:01, 12 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, a change to a more neutral article name.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 22:13, 12 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, per RightCowLeftCoast 83.11.98.128 (talk) 19:00, 13 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. Also because this keeps it consistent with the general term airstrike. -- Calidum 23:03, 13 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, although a weak support, but I can understand the rationale. Strike is probably more neutral. Politically, the term 'attack' also seems to imply as if they are an attack on the State of Pakistan, when they are not (really), as the current and previous governments of Pakistan seem to be knowledgeable and even tolerable of them. So they are not really an attack on Pakistan, but rather foreign strikes occurring with the permission (or complicity, whichever fits best) of Pakistani authorities. In contrast, the title of the article 2011 NATO attack in Pakistan is appropriate as it really was an attack on Pakistan's security forces (and hence the state) and was treated as such by the government. These drone attacks however, as I have said, are not treated as attacks on the state by the Pakistani government, and hence, terming them 'strikes' may be appropriate. Mar4d (talk) 11:50, 17 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, reasons stated in my original page move argument. Uhlan talk 23:30, 17 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Orphaned references in Drone strikes in Pakistan

[edit]

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Drone strikes in Pakistan's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "IMU joins ISIL":

  • From War on Terror: "Uzbek militants in Afghanistan pledge allegiance to ISIS in beheading video". khaama.com. Retrieved 25 June 2015.
  • From Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant: Adeel, Mirwais. "Uzbek militants in Afghanistan pledge allegiance to ISIS in beheading video". Khaama Press. Kabul, Afghanistan.
  • From Operation Zarb-e-Azb: "IMU Declares It Is Now Part Of The Islamic State". Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty. 6 August 2015. Retrieved 6 August 2015.
  • From Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan: "IMU Pledges Allegiance to Islamic State". EurasiaNet. 1 August 2015.
  • From Insurgency in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa: "Uzbek militants in Afghanistan pledge allegiance to ISIS in beheading video". khaama.com. Archived from the original on 13 July 2015. Retrieved 6 July 2015. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |dead-url= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 22:14, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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