Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nothnegal (2nd nomination): Difference between revisions

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep as withdrawn by nominator

Nothnegal

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Keep: Withdrawing as nominator after sources for the article appear by kind editors below. I don't mind having to strike my comments is an article got a major overhaul as a result :) ♪ daTheisen (talk) 15:36, 1 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Placed article for discussion after PROD tag was removed without reason given. After some research into this and similar articles, ~~I've been unable to find any apparent reliable third-party sources to use as references. There are no citations used in the article to suggest or affirm notability,~~ and no Wikipedia articles extended or linking in appear to grant notability by legacy. ♪ daTheisen (talk) 19:39, 31 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

*Comment: This article only links to others within Wikipedia that seem to be of the same very narrow subject and scope, and give the appearance of a self-referencing group of bombardment articles maintained by the same limited number of editors. I decided to put a few articles up for discussion versus jumping to conclusions and trying to make a wider report. ♪ daTheisen (talk) 19:41, 31 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note: The article has been deleted by AfD before, but since it has been a fair amount of time I didn't want to tag it as merely a recreation. ♪ daTheisen (talk) 19:41, 31 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. —J04n(talk page) 21:43, 31 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

STRONG KEEP — i went through wikipedia's: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:MUSIC#Criteria_for_musicians_and_ensembles

and according to its:

(6th criteria (which Nothnegal passes clearly): (nothnegal do have:) two or more independently notable musicians, (both these musicians are:) members of two or more independently notable ensembles.

and they do pass the 1st, 2nd criterias as well.

(1st criteria: Has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician or ensemble itself and reliable)

nothnegal's news have been covered on places like blabbermouth.net (Blabbermouth.net, described by the London Free Press as a "reliable industry and fan site",[1] is widely recognized as an authority on heavy metal and hard rock. It has been cited as a source by the London Free Press,[1] New Musical Express,[7][8] MTV.com[9][10] the Toronto Sun,[11][12] the Baltic News Service,[13] the St. Petersburg Times,[14] News.com.au,[15] and OC Weekly[16]. -- source: blabbermouth.net and more like Metal Storm (webzine) to name some:
1- http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=113435
2- http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=129636
3- http://www.metalstorm.ee/events/news_comments.php?news_id=8073
4- http://www.bravewords.com/news/105615

(2nd criteria: Has received non-trivial coverage in a reliable source of an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country)

noted festival caos emergente's website and myspace confirms that Nothnegal performed on their festival in Portugal and according to blabbermouth.net, Nothnegal was also part of another festival that was held in Romania which also had notable bands in its lineup.
1- http://www.caos-emergente.com (refer to 'artists 2009' page)
2- http://www.myspace.com/caosemergente
3- http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=78857058&blogId=506598688 (concert poster)
4 - http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/Blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=126386
5 - http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/Blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=120217

--Mv head (talk) 07:36, 1 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy Keep — blabbermouth.net alone have plenty of articles covering Nothnegal: http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/Blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Search&searchtext=nothnegal&x=0&y=0

A news article of Nothnegal is on blabbermouth.net's front page as we speak!

SPEEDY KEEP — I strongly support to keep this article as this is about a band that have recognized notable musicians in their lineup, have got coverage from reliable media sources like blabbermouth.net and also have performed in international concerts or tours which have had coverage from reliable media. --Ntxdr (talk) 12:55, 1 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

*Waiting: blabbermouth is down? At least I can't connect to the front page. Listed there with side articles is good, but front page to that high-traffic a site? I'll submit for Admin to close as keep per my withdrawing once it's back up. ...Thanks for finding all the info though, really. I'd rather know an article gets improved than dies. ♪ daTheisen (talk) 13:45, 1 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

blabbermouth is not down, try http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/Blabbermouth.net/index.aspx thats the front page. Nothnegal's article is still there on the front page news. check that out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.104.24.239 (talk) 14:36, 1 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Alright! -- this[1] is more than enough. If they'll get a news post to the front page, no issues with any article posted there since this proves it obviously isn't a one-time media blurb. Going to strike my above comments and close for Keep as withdrawn. ♪ daTheisen (talk) 15:20, 1 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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+<div class="boilerplate metadata afd vfd xfd-closed" style="background-color: #F3F9FF; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
+:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).  No further edits should be made to this page.''
+<!--Template:Afd top
+Note:  If you are seeing this page as a result of an attempt to re-nominate an article for deletion, you must manually edit the AfD nomination links in order to create a new discussion page using the name format of [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PAGENAME (2nd nomination)]].  When you create the new discussion page, please provide a link to this old discussion in your nomination. -->
+The result was  '''Keep''' as withdrawn by nominator
 ===[[Nothnegal]]===
-{{REMOVE THIS TEMPLATE WHEN CLOSING THIS AfD|M}}
 <div class="infobox" style="width:50%">AfDs for this article:<ul class="listify">{{Special:Prefixindex/Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nothnegal}}</ul></div>
 :{{la|Nothnegal}} – <includeonly>([[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nothnegal (2nd nomination)|View AfD]])</includeonly><noinclude>([[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2009 October 31#{{anchorencode:Nothnegal}}|View log]])</noinclude>
 :({{findsources|Nothnegal}})
-Placed article for discussion after PROD tag was removed without reason given. After some research into this and similar articles, I've been unable to find any apparent reliable third-party sources to use as references. There are no citations used in the article to suggest or affirm notability, and no Wikipedia articles extended or linking in appear to grant notability by legacy. <b>♪</b> <span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps">[[User:Datheisen|daTheisen]][[User talk:Datheisen|(talk)]]</span> 19:39, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
-::*Comment: This article only links to others within Wikipedia that seem to be of the same very narrow subject and scope, and give the appearance of a self-referencing group of bombardment articles maintained by the same limited number of editors. I decided to put a few articles up for discussion versus jumping to conclusions and trying to make a wider report. <b>♪</b> <span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps">[[User:Datheisen|daTheisen]][[User talk:Datheisen|(talk)]]</span> 19:41, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
-::*Note: The article has been deleted by AfD before, but since it has been a fair amount of time I didn't want to tag it as merely a recreation. <b>♪</b> <span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps">[[User:Datheisen|daTheisen]][[User talk:Datheisen|(talk)]]</span> 19:41, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
-*<small class="delsort-notice">'''Note''':  This debate has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Bands and musicians|list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions]]. <!--Template:Delsort--></small><small>—<font face="Century Gothic">[[User:J04n|J04n]]([[User talk:J04n|talk page]])</font> 21:43, 31 October 2009 (UTC)</small>
-"Can't see any reason why Nothnegal was nominated for deletion"
+::'''Keep''': Withdrawing as nominator after sources for the article appear by kind editors below. I don't mind having to strike my comments is an article got a major overhaul as a result :)  <b>♪</b> <span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps">[[User:Datheisen|daTheisen]][[User talk:Datheisen|(talk)]]</span> 15:36, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
-i dont see a reason why you have nominated this article for deletion. here are the reasons why i believe they must be noted.
-- they are a band who's lineup includes noted musicians
-Reference: [http://www.kalmah.com/band_marco.html] - it states on noted band Kalmah's official website that Marco Sneck IS A member of Nothnegal
-i have included more references for this in the article, and this you can see that this news of them joining was covered on a lot of heavy metal websites and even blabbermouth which is on of the most reliable source of news for heavy metal and other music.
+Placed article for discussion after PROD tag was removed without reason given. After some research into this and similar articles, <s>I've been unable to find any apparent reliable third-party sources to use as references. There are no citations used in the article to suggest or affirm notability,</s> and no Wikipedia articles extended or linking in appear to grant notability by legacy. <b>♪</b> <span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps">[[User:Datheisen|daTheisen]][[User talk:Datheisen|(talk)]]</span> 19:39, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
-- they have released an album produced by a noted producer, this album also contains contributions from noted musicians.
-Reference: [http://www.astiastudio.fi/2003/links.html] Nothnegal is listed on the official website of the noted producer as one of his clients which proves that he worked on the album.
-Reference: [http://www.ristoruuth.com/Bio.html] this album is listed on the noted musician Risto Ruuth who contributed a solo to the album which proves that he did feature on it.
+::<s>*Comment: This article only links to others within Wikipedia that seem to be of the same very narrow subject and scope, and give the appearance of a self-referencing group of bombardment articles maintained by the same limited number of editors. I decided to put a few articles up for discussion versus jumping to conclusions and trying to make a wider report.</s> <b>♪</b> <span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps">[[User:Datheisen|daTheisen]][[User talk:Datheisen|(talk)]]</span> 19:41, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
-- they are featured on major noted music instrument brands along with other noted bands
+::*Note: The article has been deleted by AfD before, but since it has been a fair amount of time I didn't want to tag it as merely a recreation. <b>♪</b> <span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps">[[User:Datheisen|daTheisen]][[User talk:Datheisen|(talk)]]</span> 19:41, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
-Reference: [http://www.jacksonguitars.com/artists/index.php?id=461] Nothnegal is featured on Jackson Guitars websites as one of their endorsee and artist, i havent included all the links to their endorsed websites but you can see that they are endorsed by several instrument manufacturers if you search for it.
+*<small class="delsort-notice">'''Note''':  This debate has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Bands and musicians|list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions]]. <!--Template:Delsort--></small><small>—<span style="font-family:Century Gothic;">[[User:J04n|J04n]]([[User talk:J04n|talk page]])</span> 21:43, 31 October 2009 (UTC)</small>
+'''STRONG KEEP''' —  i went through wikipedia's: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:MUSIC#Criteria_for_musicians_and_ensembles
-- they have performed internationally with other noted and some of the most popular bands of their genre
-Reference: [http://www.caos-emergente.com/] (check the 'artists 2009' page) this is the official website of one of the noted festivals and proves that Nothnegal performed on their festival in Portugal along with some of the biggest bands in metal today.
-- their material have been reviewed and they have been interviewed by websites and magazines.
-Reference: [http://www.metalreview.com/Reviews/4938/Nothnegal-Antidote-Of-Realism.aspx], [www.metal-observer.com/articles.php?lid=1&sid=6&id=16540], [http://www.metalstorm.ee/pub/review.php?review_id=6371].
-so i dont see any reason why you should delete this page and also everything on it is verifiable through the official website of the artist, company or person as i have referenced. and as you can see most of the references on Nothnegal's article page is referenced to [blabbermouth.net] the reason is that it is the most reliable heavy metal source of all and doesnt write unwanted news.
-i understand that this page was deleted about 9 months back, and there was every reason to delete it back then. but when i wrote it this time i made sure the band had achieved enough to be noted. and actually they have.
-so please review this again, i'm sure this is a mistake. thank you.  <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Mv head|Mv head]] ([[User talk:Mv head|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mv head|contribs]]) 05:06, 1 November 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
-==Nothnegal + Wikipedia's Criteria for musicians and ensembles==
-i went through wikipedia's: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:MUSIC#Criteria_for_musicians_and_ensembles
 and according to its:
@@ Line 44: / Line 28: @@
 *(6th criteria (which Nothnegal passes clearly): (nothnegal do have:) two or more independently notable musicians, (both these musicians are:) members of two or more independently notable ensembles.
-and they do somewhat pass the 1st and 2nd criteria although not as much as the 6th.
+and they do pass the 1st, 2nd criterias as well.
 *(1st criteria: Has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician or ensemble itself and reliable)
+nothnegal's news have been covered on places like [[blabbermouth.net]] (Blabbermouth.net, described by the London Free Press as a "reliable industry and fan site",[1] is widely recognized as an authority on heavy metal and hard rock. It has been cited as a source by the London Free Press,[1] New Musical Express,[7][8] MTV.com[9][10] the Toronto Sun,[11][12] the Baltic News Service,[13] the St. Petersburg Times,[14] News.com.au,[15] and OC Weekly[16]. -- source: [[blabbermouth.net]] and more like [[Metal Storm (webzine)]] to name some: <br /br>
-nothnegal's news have been covered on:
-- http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=113435
+- http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=113435<br /br>
-- http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=129636
+- http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=129636<br /br>
-- http://www.metalstorm.ee/events/news_comments.php?news_id=8073
+- http://www.metalstorm.ee/events/news_comments.php?news_id=8073<br /br>
 - http://www.bravewords.com/news/105615
 *(2nd criteria: Has received non-trivial coverage in a reliable source of an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country)
-noted festival [[caos emergente]]'s website and myspace confirms that Nothnegal performed on their festival in Portugal along with other notable bands.
+noted festival [[caos emergente]]'s website and myspace confirms that Nothnegal performed on their festival in Portugal and according to [[blabbermouth.net]], Nothnegal was also part of another festival that was held in Romania which also had notable bands in its lineup. <br /br>
-- http://www.caos-emergente.com (refer to 'artists 2009' page)
+- http://www.caos-emergente.com (refer to 'artists 2009' page)<br /br>
-- www.myspace.com/caosemergente
+- http://www.myspace.com/caosemergente <br /br>
-- http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=78857058&blogId=506598688 (concert poster)
+- http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=78857058&blogId=506598688 (concert poster) <br /br>
+- http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/Blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=126386 <br /br>
+- http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/Blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=120217
 --[[User:Mv head|Mv head]] ([[User talk:Mv head|talk]]) 07:36, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
+*'''Speedy Keep''' — [[blabbermouth.net]] alone have plenty of articles covering Nothnegal: http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/Blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Search&searchtext=nothnegal&x=0&y=0
+A news article of Nothnegal is on [[blabbermouth.net]]'s front page as we speak!
+*'''SPEEDY KEEP''' — I strongly support to keep this article as this is about a band that have recognized notable musicians in their lineup, have got coverage from reliable media sources like [[blabbermouth.net]] and also have performed in international concerts or tours which have had coverage from reliable media. --[[User:Ntxdr|Ntxdr]] ([[User talk:Ntxdr|talk]]) 12:55, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
+::<s>*'''Waiting''':</s> blabbermouth is down? At least I can't connect to the front page. Listed there with side articles is good, but front page to that high-traffic a site? I'll submit for Admin to close as keep per my withdrawing once it's back up. ...Thanks for finding all the info though, really. I'd rather know an article gets improved than dies. <b>♪</b> <span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps">[[User:Datheisen|daTheisen]][[User talk:Datheisen|(talk)]]</span> 13:45, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
+:::* blabbermouth is not down, try http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/Blabbermouth.net/index.aspx thats the front page. Nothnegal's article is still there on the front page news. check that out.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/203.104.24.239|203.104.24.239]] ([[User talk:203.104.24.239|talk]]) 14:36, 1 November 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
+*'''Alright!''' -- this[http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/Blabbermouth.net/index.aspx] is more than enough. If they'll get a news post to the front page, no issues with any article posted there since this proves it obviously isn't a one-time media blurb. Going to strike my above comments and close for Keep as withdrawn. <b>♪</b> <span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps">[[User:Datheisen|daTheisen]][[User talk:Datheisen|(talk)]]</span> 15:20, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
+:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.'' <!--Template:Afd bottom--></div>