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{{Hatnote|'''Wikipedia requires that [[Wikipedia:Verifiability|all content be verifiable]], for this reason no country will be listed in the infobox as an Axis power unless [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|independent, reliable sources]] on the topic of WW2 can be presented explicitly describing them <u>as an Axis power</u>. If you want a country to be included in the infobox, please find sources to support this before opening a discussion.'''}}
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== Norway ==

it is really easy to belive that Norway was a suporter of Nazi-germany. There is no section abouth Norway, and the map dosent help much
:The reason there is no section on Norway is because Norway in no way ''was'' a supporter of Nazi Germany. Norway was neutral until it was [[Operation Weserubung|invaded by German forces]] in April 1940, after which it joined the [[Allies of World War II|Allies]] and [[Norwegian Campaign|defended itself against the Germans]] until mainland Norway was [[Occupation of Norway by Nazi Germany|fully occupied]] in June. After this, Norway was under occupation, but the [[Johan Nygaardsvold|legitimate government in exile]] always considered Norway to be an Ally under enemy occupation. The Germans never attempted to create an Axis puppet state in Norway either (as they did in Greece, Croatia, Slovakia and several other occupied countries, as this article will tell you), they merely occupied the country. Norwegian collaborators existed, of course, there were plenty of them, but that does not make Norway more of an Axis powers than other Axis-occupied states with legitimate governments in exile, such as the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, etc. So despite how easy you might think it is to believe Norway supported Nazi Germany, it has nothing to do with reality and has no place in this article or on the map. [[User:96T|96T]] ([[User talk:96T|talk]]) 18:16, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
::I've edited the map caption slightly to make it clear that it shows the extent of occupied territory. It's a good map, but we could do with a more sophisticated one.[[User:Macguba|Macguba]] ([[User talk:Macguba|talk]]) 17:58, 11 October 2008 (UTC)


But the reality is that a puppet government under Norweigian Fascist leader Quisling did existed during the German occupation. The puppet regime never become a formal member of the Axis, but it was a puppet state established by Nazi Germany, making it accountable as a Germany-sponsored puppet government in this article.

As for the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg, all three were simply occupied without establishment of local puppet regimes, aside from some semi-autonomous institutes raised from local fascists. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Niobium101|Niobium101]] ([[User talk:Niobium101|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Niobium101|contribs]]) 17:08, 27 August 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:The Quisling regime had zero autonomy, and thus does not count. Quisling is already dealt with over at [[Collaboration with the Axis Powers during World War II]]. [[User:Manxruler|Manxruler]] ([[User talk:Manxruler|talk]]) 13:59, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
::It should at least get a mention, if only because of what the name of its leader has come to symbolize. The collaborationist greek government didn't have any autonomy either, and it has its section. And the Italian-created independent Montenegro didn't even have a proper government for most of the war, yet it also has its section. [[User:Jean-Jacques Georges|Jean-Jacques Georges]] ([[User talk:Jean-Jacques Georges|talk]]) 14:34, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

== Puppet sections ==

I have added an additional title/heading to the sections as "pro-German". I do not see how Slovakia, which made many independent decisions, was any less of a puppet than Vichy France or Finland. I would argue that neither country was a puppet state, actually.--[[Special:Contributions/88.73.243.133|88.73.243.133]] ([[User talk:88.73.243.133|talk]]) 22:01, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

"Other" instead of "Co-Belligerents"

"co-belligerents" is such a bullshit propaganda phrase that is recycled from the days when the Allies used it to create a moral appeal as to who was fighting in defense and who was not, who was good and who was not. Its purpose is clear - to suggest that anyone who is against the Allies is somehow the aggressor. This means Finland, which the Soviet Union originally invaded, was somehow "belligerent" by resisting and later helping the Germans. I denounce the use of this phrase and anything that creates a conflated image of a black and white world of good and bad and further perpetuates half-truths that make people act emotionally rather than logically when, for example, someone uses the phrase "Axis of Evil".--[[Special:Contributions/88.73.243.133|88.73.243.133]] ([[User talk:88.73.243.133|talk]]) 22:21, 5 April 2009 (UTC)


I don't get the point. Why isn't Vichy France put as a german puppet state? Slovakia, Serbia, Italy, Albania, Hungary and Vardar Macedonia are like Vichy: some collaborator states which had been "enslaved" by Nazi Germany. No one state was free to choose if he helped or not. So I cannot understand why there would be a difference. As Pétain and his governement had only limited actual powers (especially after 1942) and all the main decisions were taken by the german Military Administration, this would be easier and right to gather them all. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/84.99.220.205|84.99.220.205]] ([[User talk:84.99.220.205|talk]]) 16:15, 22 December 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:Because there is this thing called Western Bias, that predominates in English speaking countries. Go ahead and add Vichy France, but use citations as you do so. They shouldn't too difficult to find. [[User:HistoricWarrior007|HistoricWarrior007]] ([[User talk:HistoricWarrior007|talk]]) 08:26, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

== Yugoslavia ==

I removed the whole subsection about Yugoslavia from the Minor powers section. Yugoslavia was simply never a minor or any other kind of Axis power. The government signed the pact on 25 March 1941, two days later there was a coup that brought down the government, and ten days after the coup the Axis invaded. Yugoslav government (first royal, then national unity) was recognized as an Allied government throughout Yugoslavia's involvement in WWII.

The information about signing of the pact and the coup should be worked into the article somehow, but not under the "Minor powers" heading. OTOH, the detailed information about partisans vs. chetniks does not belong in this article at all. [[User talk:Zocky|Zocky]] | [[User:Zocky/Picture Popups|picture popups]] 00:13, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

:I realize its a technicality, but Yugoslavia ''did'' sign the pact, and the new post-coup government did not dare actually annul the agreement. There is simply no way to incorporate all this info into the article except in this form, we'd have to create a special section... --<font face="Eras Bold ITC">[[User:DIREKTOR|<font color="DimGray">DIREKTOR</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:DIREKTOR|<font color="Gray">TALK</font>]])</sup></font> 00:27, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
::The signing is already described in the [[Tripartite Pact]], maybe a part of it can be worked into this article. But as I understand it (and the article states), Axis powers were those countries who fought against the allies during WWII, regardless of whether they signed the pact or not (I suspect many of the described puppet states were never even asked). For the same reason, Spain and USSR, neither of which ever fought against the Allies, shouldn't be included in this article either. [[User talk:Zocky|Zocky]] | [[User:Zocky/Picture Popups|picture popups]] 00:34, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
:The article simply lists states that can, in any capacity, be thought of as members of the Axis. Yugoslavia is one of them, the matter is well explained in the section (in my opinion). --<font face="Eras Bold ITC">[[User:DIREKTOR|<font color="DimGray">DIREKTOR</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:DIREKTOR|<font color="Gray">TALK</font>]])</sup></font> 00:38, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
::No, it specifically says, and I quote, ''The Axis powers (also known as the Axis alliance, Axis nations, Axis countries, or just the Axis) were those countries that were opposed to the Allies during World War II.'' Yugoslavia, USSR and Spain weren't opposed to the Allies in WWII, which clearly disqualifies them from the list. Iff we could get the definition to say ''Axis powers were states that can, in any capacity, be thought of as members of the Axis'', then listing these states would be possibly be appropriate. [[User talk:Zocky|Zocky]] | [[User:Zocky/Picture Popups|picture popups]] 00:43, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
:Yes, that's what it "says", but that's clearly not the sole subject of the article. Besides, as a state that signed the pact, Yugoslavia '''''was''''' opposed to the Allies for a couple of days.
:The USSR did ''technically'' fight against the Allies. Poland was an Allied state that was invaded by the USSR in agreement with Germany. Now, I know this is a ''technicality'', and that the USSR was basically the state that destroyed the Axis but this just shows that if the USSR can be found here, so can Yugoslavia. (Spain also fought against the USSR, an Allied state at the time.) --<font face="Eras Bold ITC">[[User:DIREKTOR|<font color="DimGray">DIREKTOR</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:DIREKTOR|<font color="Gray">TALK</font>]])</sup></font> 00:46, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
::The USSR didn't fight against allies, it fought against Poland. The allies never went to war against USSR nor vice versa. Again, we have the article [[Tripartite Pact]] where the signatories of the fact are discussed in detail. Listing USSR, Spain and Yugoslavia in this article is both unnecessary and misleading. [[User talk:Zocky|Zocky]] | [[User:Zocky/Picture Popups|picture popups]] 21:31, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Any statements sourced from the book by Phillip Cohen should be stricken, that is, only if you want this page to be free of cheap propaganda. Anybody with a brain and a pair of eyes can skim the first page of that garbage on Amazon. Nuff said. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Mmilenko|Mmilenko]] ([[User talk:Mmilenko|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mmilenko|contribs]]) 00:42, 21 April 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


Ljotic's solders (SVC,ZBOR) (who were German allies), were involved in killing Croats and Muslims (who were also German allies)...How is that possible? Why would Germans let SVC (who were, btw, only operating in Nedic's Serbia where there are no Croats and almost no Muslims (Bosniaks)!) to kill people whose government is their ally since 1930s??? Just think! I am no way a supporter of Serbian fascist, I just want to point out some non-logical, and probably false facts...--[[User:Vule91|Vule91]] ([[User talk:Vule91|talk]]) 18:53, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Vule91 you just want to believe that all Serbs were completely innocent in history. Well, I don't believe that you think logical. Serbia was Hitler ally too. So why would Croats kill all those Serbs? Why Serbs killed Croats?
Answer is simple. Hate from WW1 and a wish for ethnically clean state. Well, anyway that's my POV, you asked for it... <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/93.138.251.136|93.138.251.136]] ([[User talk:93.138.251.136|talk]]) 13:04, 6 March 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== How does inserting Chamberlain fail "NPOV"? ==

In 1938, the USSR offered to defend Czechoslovakia, and offered to create an anti-Nazi alliance in Europe. Neville Chamberlain did everything in his power to prevent the creation of such an alliance, including flying to Nazi Germany, twice! After the UK, due to Chamberlain's actions refused an alliance with the USSR, and AFTER Hitler offered the USSR an alliance, Stalin signed. Instead, according to some mystic version of "NPOV", we are supposed to pretend that Stalin and Hitler signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact "out of the blue". How exactly does mentioning basic facts, violate NPOV? [[User:HistoricWarrior007|HistoricWarrior007]] ([[User talk:HistoricWarrior007|talk]]) 23:29, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
:You should actually read whole section (especially as it isn't very long in this case) before you start editing it. You talk about 1938 but that is actually in previous paragraph, not in the one you edited. Whole betrayal of Czechoslovakia is already mentioned in previous paragraph. The paragraph you edited speaks about talks that took place in 1939 both between Brits/French and Soviets, and between Germans and Soviets. Your wording places whole blame of the failure about tripartite talks on Brits, and that is about as neutral as: ''"After pressing demands that Western Allies could not accept Stalin made pact with Hitler about dividing Eastern-Europe."'' would be.--[[User:Staberinde|Staberinde]] ([[User talk:Staberinde|talk]]) 21:04, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
::Please do not attempt to read my mind, or to pretend to know whether I read the previous section or not. Only I know whether I read the section or not, and you cannot possibly know that. Unless you are a mind-reader. So please don't say "you should actually read whole section" because that implies that I did not read it, when in fact I read it. That's original research on your part, and I can assure you, that in this case it is dead wrong original research. And yes, it's mentioned, in passing, in the previous paragraph, and I clarified it. Stalin's demand was that Czechoslovakia be defended, or at least that the Western Allies would try to defend it, with more than three divisions. I don't see what is so pressing about that. When you have to make up a fact to support your argument, you argument fails. Analogies must be real; they cannot come from the land of fantasy. I have no problem with you linking the Tripartite Pact to this article, so you too, can clarify. What I have a problem with, is that you are trying to avoid my clarification, and in doing so, try to make me look like a POV Warrior. That's not very nice. [[User:HistoricWarrior007|HistoricWarrior007]] ([[User talk:HistoricWarrior007|talk]]) 05:21, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Eh, I totally did not talk about Tripartite Pact but about [[Molotov–Ribbentrop_Pact_negotiations#Tripartite_talks_begin|tripartite talks]] between USSR-UK-France that took place '''in 1939'''. This paragraph you edited talks about negotiations in 1939, and that should be obvious from first sentence of paragraph, unless you are claiming that Stalin was actively negotiating with Hitler already before Munich. Anything about 1938 and Czechoslovakia would go into previous paragraph, currently your edit essentially claims that USSR-UK-France negotiations '''in 1939''' failed due British, which totally fails NPOV.--[[User:Staberinde|Staberinde]] ([[User talk:Staberinde|talk]]) 11:20, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

:Umm, they did fail due to the British actions of 1938. You are trying to make it look like the events are unconnected, when there's an indisputable connection between them. Had the British agreed to the Soviet Proposals of 1938, there is no way that the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact would be signed, as USSR would be at war with Nazi Germany! [[User:HistoricWarrior007|HistoricWarrior007]] ([[User talk:HistoricWarrior007|talk]]) 08:21, 8 December 2009 (UTC)


== The map shows the Axis powers wrong. Finland was not a part of the Axis, as also the Allied leaders concluded in Tehran ==

Following the [[Winter War]], Finland had prepared for a continued Soviet aggression and a defensive campaign - not offensive -, as the Marshal of Finland Mannerheim has pointed out in his memoirs.

Accordingly, the [[Continuation War]] which started with the Soviet invasion of Finland on June 25, 1941, was not a part of the German campaign against the Soviets, as also the Allied leaders' Tehran Conference, on December 1, 1943, correctly concluded.

Together with [[Winston Churchill]] and [[Franklin Delano Roosevelt|Franklin D. Roosevelt]], [[Joseph Stalin]] acknowledged in the Allied leaders' [[Tehran Conference]], ending on December 1, 1943, that the Finnish-Soviet [[Continuation War]] was a '''separate war''' - not a part of the conflict between the Axis powers and the Allied powers.

Finland was also not a signee of the [[Tripartite Pact]], at any point. Thus the map showing the Axis powers in the top right corner of this article is misleading in this regard. Accordingly, it needs to be removed. It can be replaced by a similar map which will show the correct state of the Axis powers during WW2.

Finland did participate in certain level of co-operation with Germany during WW2, and particularly in the summer of 1944 weapons purchased from Germany were of great help to Finland. However - again -, '''Finland was not a member of the Axis powers'''.

Due to the separate nature of the own struggle, the '''Finns refused to cooperate with the Nazis in many critical areas''', such as:


: '''1)''' - - signing the [[Tripartite Pact]], also called the '''Axis Pact''', which established the [[Axis Powers]] of [[World War II]] (despite of many requests from the Nazi-Germany);

: '''2)''' - - allowing direct German attacks from the Finnish soil against the Soviet Union during the Interim Peace period;

: '''3)''' - - accepting the approximately 80 000 German troops offered to be placed under command of Marshal Mannerheim;

: '''4)''' - - attacking the Soviet Union, unless/until the Soviet Union would attack Finland first;

: '''5)''' - - cooperating in the siege of Leningrad;


== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 March 2024 ==
: '''6)''' - - cutting the Allied "lifeline", which was operated over Lake Ladoga and which brought desperately needed supplies to the defenders of Leningrad;


{{Edit extended-protected|Axis powers|answered=yes}}
: '''7)''' - - cutting the Murmansk railroad, which delivered massive amounts of Allied weapons and other supplies to the Soviets;
Why is Iraq not listed in the infobox? They were a full-fledged member of the Axis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Iraqi_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1941_Iraqi_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat [[User:Ironzombie39|Ironzombie39]] ([[User talk:Ironzombie39|talk]]) 00:23, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' please provide [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable sources]] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:EEp --> The FAQ at the top says {{tq|"Only the countries for which reliable sources have been found, describing the country unambiguously as a member of the Axis, should be included."}} As discussed previously, co-belligerents of the Axis are not considered members of the Axis and hence do not go in the infobox. The question of including Iraq in the infobox has also been discussed multiple times (see the archives), and consensus has also been against inclusion. [[User:Liu1126|Liu1126]] ([[User talk:Liu1126|talk]]) 23:40, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
::so we add Finland and croatia but not iraq?
::I don't get your logic here [[User:Sanad real|Sanad real]] ([[User talk:Sanad real|talk]]) 03:56, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
:::iraq is literally blue on the map on the allies article [[User:Sanad real|Sanad real]] ([[User talk:Sanad real|talk]]) 01:28, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Hi @[[User:Sanad real|Sanad real]]. On Wikipedia, facts that can be challenged (which definitely includes which states were Axis powers) need to be clearly supported by [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable sources]]. Wikipedia, including the map on the page about the Allies, is not a reliable source.
::::For Iraq, there is no source saying it was ever a member of the Axis powers. If we look at what the sources say, we can see that it is not clearly considered to have been an Axis power during the few months that Rashid Ali was in power. For example, [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=QKvnCwAAQBAJ&dq=%22Iraq%22+%22Rashid+Ali%22+%22Axis%22+%22formal+alliance%22&pg=PA113&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=%22Iraq%22%20%22Rashid%20Ali%22%20%22Axis%22%20%22formal%20alliance%22&f=false this source] points out that Germany and Italy had no desire to make deals with Arab states since Italy wanted the Middle East as part of its empire and Germany saw the Arab states as a distration from its upcoming invasion of the USSR. The source also states that no formal alliance was ever concluded.
::::For Finland and Croatia, there are ample sources stating that they were members of the Axis powers which you can find in the article. For Iraq those sources don't appear to exist. If you are aware of a reliable source that clearly and unambiguously describes Iraq as a member of the Axis powers, please let us know. [[User:FOARP|FOARP]] ([[User talk:FOARP|talk]]) 07:40, 4 September 2024 (UTC)


== Issues with the map of participants in the info-box ==
: '''8)''' - - attacking the same targets as the Germans;


Regarding the map of participants in the info-box, it contains inaccuracies:
: '''9)''' - - handing Finnish Jews to the Nazis (The Finnish Jews participated in the Finnish war efforts just like all other Finnish citizens);


* The USSR is listed as having switched sides from the Axis to the Allies, which is in between complete falsehood and utter lunacy. Neither the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact nor the joint-but-time-offset German-Soviet invasion of Poland ever made the USSR a member of the Axis, especially not de jure.
:'''10)''' - declaring war against any other Allied countries except Soviet Union, ... etc.


* Ethiopia is listed as having switched sides, but how can a colonial government (Italian East Africa) "switch sides" when it was disbanded altogether and replaced with a British military administration?


* If Ethiopia is listed as having switches sides, then Italy should have certainty been included in the list as well, but it was not. The situation with the Italian Social Republic complicates the matter, but since France is already dealt with separately (on the map) in terms of Vichy France and German-occupied France, the same could be done with Italy (showing the Italian Social Republic borders at establishment in blue, and the rest of Italy in blue but with a "switched sides from the Axis to the Allies" marker).
The current President of Finland Tarja Halonen has reminded of the war-time Finnish policy which secured the operation of the Allied "lifeline" of help over Lake Ladoga, helping to save Leningrad from the Nazi occupation.
[[Special:Contributions/212.243.68.210|212.243.68.210]] ([[User talk:212.243.68.210|talk]]) 12:58, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
*:Ethiopia went from being an Italian colony to one that had been liberated and Ethiopia's full sovereignty was restored with the signing of the Anglo-Ethiopian Agreement in December 1944 (duing Ww2). [[User:Slatersteven|Slatersteven]] ([[User talk:Slatersteven|talk]]) 13:02, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
*:We do not list the USSR as a member of the Axis. [[User:Slatersteven|Slatersteven]] ([[User talk:Slatersteven|talk]]) 13:03, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
*::The map is garbage. It might well be better not to have it. [[User:FOARP|FOARP]] ([[User talk:FOARP|talk]]) 10:16, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
*:::This is not the first time problems with the map have been raised. Other discussions where problems with the map have been raised include:
*:::*[[Talk:Axis_powers/Archive_13#inaccuracies_in_the_map]]
*:::*[[Talk:Axis_powers/Archive_12#Map]]
*:::*[[Talk:Axis_powers/Archive_12#Map_2]]
*:::*[[Talk:Axis_powers/Archive_6#The_map_from_https:/upwiki/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/WWII.png/280px-WWII.png]]
*:::*[[Talk:Axis_powers/Archive_5#The_map_shows_the_Axis_powers_wrong._Finland_was_not_a_part_of_the_Axis,_as_also_the_Allied_leaders_concluded_in_Tehran]]
*:::*[[Talk:Axis_powers/Archive_5#Map_is_a_poor_descriptive_image_for_the_subject_matter]]<br/>
*:::For this reason I am removing the map as a [[WP:BOLD]] move simply because it is not a good illustration for this article. [[User:FOARP|FOARP]] ([[User talk:FOARP|talk]]) 13:42, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
*::::Don't care about the map, but this article cannot have the same lead image as [[Tripartite Pact]]. It will only further conflation. [[User:Srnec|Srnec]] ([[User talk:Srnec|talk]]) 03:32, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
*:::::I'm fine with this change. If there were a colour poster or similar then that would be even better but I'm not aware of one. PS - [https://www.bridgemanimages.com/en/noartistknown/we-will-win-poster-with-axis-flags-world-war-ii-italy-20th-century/nomedium/asset/1257605 this looks good], but we'd need a hi-res copy, and to be sure that it's free-to-use (it ''probably'' is, but that's not good enough). [[User:FOARP|FOARP]] ([[User talk:FOARP|talk]]) 10:34, 16 August 2024 (UTC) [[User:FOARP|FOARP]] ([[User talk:FOARP|talk]]) 10:26, 16 August 2024 (UTC)


== Only Axis powers should be listed in the infobox in an article about the Axis powers ==
By not participating in the siege of Leningrad - alone -, the Finns prohibited a huge strategic and moral victory from the Nazis.


There was an extensive discussion about why the infobox only included actual members of the Axis. It's now been changed back to its previous format without any discussion as far as I can see. This is not a Paradox game or online games forum like NationStates, we need <u>'''''sources'''''</u> to describe a country positively as having been <u>'''''one of the Axis powers'''''</u>, not whatever idea someone has just come up with on their own about what the Axis was.<br/>
Being the highest leader of the Soviet Union, Joseph Stalin knew in detail what the Soviet intentions regarding Finland were. He knew exactly what had taken place, and why.


The second world war is almost certainly the most written-about subject in world history. If you cannot find a source explicitly stating that a country was one of the Axis powers (or similar language) then please consider that it may not have been an Axis power, and that your idea of what the Axis powers were does not match what reliable sources say about it. It is, in fact, not easy to find reliable sources that list the members of the Axis beyond Germany, Japan, and Italy, and NONE of the sources we've reviewed so far that do try to provide exhaustive lists of Axis members include the countries that people typically want to add to the infobox - they don't include Vichy France, they don't include the USSR, they don't include Iraq, they don't include Iran, they don't include Manchuria. However, they DO typically include Bulgaria, Finland, Hungary, and Romania, and (less often) Croatia, Slovakia Thailand. You can review the sources that list Axis powers in the article, but the convenience of anyone reading this page, here's the main ones:
Accordingly, - in the [[Tehran Conference]] the Allied leaders determined that Finland was fighting a '''separate war''' against the Soviet Union - not the same as the one between Germany and the Soviet Union -, and that it was not 'de jure' member of the Axis, and therefore Finland could also get out of the war through negotiations and separate peace agreement.


:*[https://archive.org/details/isbn%209780824209292/page/432/mode/2up Facts About the American Wars, Bowman, p. 432] - This lists Albania, Bulgaria, Finland, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Japan, Romania, and Thailand. It discusses Croatia as well but is a bit ambiguous about whether it was an Axis member. It mentions Iraq but does not define it as having been a member of the Axis, but instead as a "puppet state" of the Allies. It explicitly describes Spain as having been neutral. There is no mention at all of Vichy France here.
Thus, the separate peace agreement was granted to Finland and the Continuation War's aftermath was dealt under a separate, conditional peace treaty. The Nazis were forced into a treaty of their own. It was unconditional and meant total surrender.
:*[https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The%20Library%20of%20Congress%20World%20War%20II%20Com/0bRaa7UuD6EC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=the+library+of+congress+world+war+ii+companion&printsec=frontcover The Library of Congress World War II Companion, Wagner, Osborne, & Reyburn, p. 39] - this defines the Axis as including Germany, Italy, Japan, Croatia, Finland, Bulgaria, Hungary, Romania, and Slovakia. Notably it does not mention Thailand. It also does not mention Iraq, Vichy France etc. as Axis countries.
:*[https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ZypnAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false Germany and the Axis Powers, DiNardo, particularly p.92-3] - this book does contain a list as such, and primarily focuses on Europe, but the following countries are explicitly described as Axis powers throughout the book: Germany, Italy, Japan, Finland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria. It is more equivocal about Slovakia and Croatia, describing them as puppet countries - this does not mean they were not Axis powers in the view of the author, but neither confirms that they were. There is no mention of Iraq, Vichy France, and the usual suspects, in the context of describing who was part of the Axis.<br/>
I could understand someone, based on the Bowman reference, wanting to add Albania, but since this does not match what other sources say about Albania in WW2 I'm inclined not to. Similarly I could understand someone wanting to remove Thailand since only Bowman includes in their list, though other sources appear to support this (see the sources in the section about Thailand, including the Thai historical dictionary). I can even understand just limiting the Axis to Germany, Italy, and Japan since many books/articles do only talk about those countries as "the Axis". What I can't understand is constantly trying to add Iraq/Vichy/USSR/whatever without any sources at all. [[User:FOARP|FOARP]] ([[User talk:FOARP|talk]]) 09:57, 12 July 2024 (UTC)


Albania was invaded and occupied, Thailand was not. [[User:Slatersteven|Slatersteven]] ([[User talk:Slatersteven|talk]]) 11:32, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
Unlike Nazi leaders, many of whom were sentenced to death, the Marshal of Finland Mannerheim had advanced to become the President of Finland on August 4, 1944, continuing in office until March 4, 1946, when he resigned and retired - 19 months after the ending of the [[Continuation War]]. [[Special:Contributions/87.93.87.52|87.93.87.52]] ([[User talk:87.93.87.52|talk]]) 20:15, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
::Generally agree Steve, but more to the point: no other source I've seen says Albania was a member of the Axis so Bowman seems an outlier here. [[User:FOARP|FOARP]] ([[User talk:FOARP|talk]]) 10:23, 16 August 2024 (UTC)


== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 August 2024 ==
:Fascinatingly incorrect argumentation. Just because someone was not tried for war crimes, does not mean that they did not cooperate with Nazi Germany. Romania cooperated with Nazi Germany, initially and to save itself from utter destruction. However there was cooperation, yet no Romanians were tried. The reason that Mannerheim was not tried, was because he did not commit atrocities that Hitler committed. Know of any Gas Chambers and mass graves in Helsinki? Didn't think so.


{{Edit extended-protected|Axis powers|answered=yes}}
:However, if you cooperated with Nazi Germany, irrespective of the reason, you were part of the Axis, irrespective of the De Jure/De Facto distinction. The USSR was De Jure neutral during the [[Vietnam War]] and yet they still fought.
[[User:R3YBOl|R3YBOl]] ([[User talk:R3YBOl|talk]]) 22:15, 10 August 2024 (UTC)


Hello, I noticed that they removed kingdom of iraq from the axis states meanwhile after the success of the iraqi coup detat in 1941 Iraq joined the axis states, Someone who deleted the article of the kingdom of iraq in this page, So I hope you guys fix it and thank you for your service
:The main sin of the Finnish forces and Swedish "volunteers" was the [[Siege of Leningrad]]. Stalin, whom you are citing, also considered the Japanese Front, another front. Yet Japan is still listed under the Axis, although it was too, agreed at Teheran, by politicians, that Japanese War was a separate one. So if you remove Finland, the same argumentation applies to Japan.
Here the article for making it easy to copy and paste
*{{flag|Kingdom of Iraq}}{{Efn|Co-belligerent of the Axis led by the [[Golden Square (Iraq)|Golden Square]] which declared a [[1941 Iraqi coup d'état|coup d'état]] against British rule. Backed by other Axis states in the region during what became the [[Anglo-Iraqi War]].}}
:Do you have evidence that they joined the Axis? <span style="border:1px solid green; padding:0 2px">[[User:The Banner|<span style="color:green">The&nbsp;Banner</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:The Banner|<i style="color:maroon">talk</i>]]</span> 23:03, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:[[File:Red question icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a [[WP:EDITXY|"change X to Y" format]] and provide a [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable source]] if appropriate.<!-- Template:EEp --> [[User:M.Bitton|M.Bitton]] ([[User talk:M.Bitton|talk]]) 23:50, 10 August 2024 (UTC)


== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 August 2024 ==
:Additionally, your 10 points are incorrect, as the Finns cooperated fully in the Siege of Leningrad. For instance, the Finns would not allow American food convoys to enter Leningrad. That is cooperation in a siege. The whole idea of a siege, is to, and let's not sugar-coat it here, the idea of a siege is to starve the city into surrendering. The Finns were 100 percent complicit in that, when they blocked the railroad, and prevented the delivery of American food supplies. The US prevented the entire Red Army from suffering malnutrition, I am sure they could have managed to do the same to Leningrad. (On a historical note, the Red Army were thankful for the food, but were unnerved about the Allies not opening the second front, so the US food packages were dubbed the "Second Front".)


{{edit extended-protected|Axis powers|answered=yes}}
:If all of your 10 points are correct, you would be correct. However to claim that the Finns did not participate in the Siege of Leningrad, is to lie. Thus the map should stay. [[User:HistoricWarrior007|HistoricWarrior007]] ([[User talk:HistoricWarrior007|talk]]) 00:19, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
Add Oxford commas. [[Special:Contributions/64.189.18.44|64.189.18.44]] ([[User talk:64.189.18.44|talk]]) 15:59, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:{{notdone}} Not clear what the request is. Please mention the specific changes in a [[WP:EDITXY|"change X to Y" format]]. <span style="border:1px solid green; padding:0 2px">[[User:The Banner|<span style="color:green">The&nbsp;Banner</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:The Banner|<i style="color:maroon">talk</i>]]</span> 16:34, 18 August 2024 (UTC)


== Maps ==
== Image size needs reduction ==


See [[Talk:Allies of World War II#Maps]]. -- [[User:Beland|Beland]] ([[User talk:Beland|talk]]) 07:21, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
Hello! I am looking up various articles and the image is not shown due to too many pixels. If anyone could reduce the image size, or replace the image, it would be appreciated. Thanks! <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.166.131.189|24.166.131.189]] ([[User talk:24.166.131.189|talk]]) 21:44, 7 April 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Latest revision as of 12:57, 10 October 2024

Wikipedia requires that all content be verifiable, for this reason no country will be listed in the infobox as an Axis power unless independent, reliable sources on the topic of WW2 can be presented explicitly describing them as an Axis power. If you want a country to be included in the infobox, please find sources to support this before opening a discussion.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 March 2024

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Why is Iraq not listed in the infobox? They were a full-fledged member of the Axis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Iraqi_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1941_Iraqi_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat Ironzombie39 (talk) 00:23, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. The FAQ at the top says "Only the countries for which reliable sources have been found, describing the country unambiguously as a member of the Axis, should be included." As discussed previously, co-belligerents of the Axis are not considered members of the Axis and hence do not go in the infobox. The question of including Iraq in the infobox has also been discussed multiple times (see the archives), and consensus has also been against inclusion. Liu1126 (talk) 23:40, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
so we add Finland and croatia but not iraq?
I don't get your logic here Sanad real (talk) 03:56, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
iraq is literally blue on the map on the allies article Sanad real (talk) 01:28, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Sanad real. On Wikipedia, facts that can be challenged (which definitely includes which states were Axis powers) need to be clearly supported by reliable sources. Wikipedia, including the map on the page about the Allies, is not a reliable source.
For Iraq, there is no source saying it was ever a member of the Axis powers. If we look at what the sources say, we can see that it is not clearly considered to have been an Axis power during the few months that Rashid Ali was in power. For example, this source points out that Germany and Italy had no desire to make deals with Arab states since Italy wanted the Middle East as part of its empire and Germany saw the Arab states as a distration from its upcoming invasion of the USSR. The source also states that no formal alliance was ever concluded.
For Finland and Croatia, there are ample sources stating that they were members of the Axis powers which you can find in the article. For Iraq those sources don't appear to exist. If you are aware of a reliable source that clearly and unambiguously describes Iraq as a member of the Axis powers, please let us know. FOARP (talk) 07:40, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Issues with the map of participants in the info-box

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Regarding the map of participants in the info-box, it contains inaccuracies:

  • The USSR is listed as having switched sides from the Axis to the Allies, which is in between complete falsehood and utter lunacy. Neither the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact nor the joint-but-time-offset German-Soviet invasion of Poland ever made the USSR a member of the Axis, especially not de jure.
  • Ethiopia is listed as having switched sides, but how can a colonial government (Italian East Africa) "switch sides" when it was disbanded altogether and replaced with a British military administration?
  • If Ethiopia is listed as having switches sides, then Italy should have certainty been included in the list as well, but it was not. The situation with the Italian Social Republic complicates the matter, but since France is already dealt with separately (on the map) in terms of Vichy France and German-occupied France, the same could be done with Italy (showing the Italian Social Republic borders at establishment in blue, and the rest of Italy in blue but with a "switched sides from the Axis to the Allies" marker).

212.243.68.210 (talk) 12:58, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Only Axis powers should be listed in the infobox in an article about the Axis powers

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There was an extensive discussion about why the infobox only included actual members of the Axis. It's now been changed back to its previous format without any discussion as far as I can see. This is not a Paradox game or online games forum like NationStates, we need sources to describe a country positively as having been one of the Axis powers, not whatever idea someone has just come up with on their own about what the Axis was.

The second world war is almost certainly the most written-about subject in world history. If you cannot find a source explicitly stating that a country was one of the Axis powers (or similar language) then please consider that it may not have been an Axis power, and that your idea of what the Axis powers were does not match what reliable sources say about it. It is, in fact, not easy to find reliable sources that list the members of the Axis beyond Germany, Japan, and Italy, and NONE of the sources we've reviewed so far that do try to provide exhaustive lists of Axis members include the countries that people typically want to add to the infobox - they don't include Vichy France, they don't include the USSR, they don't include Iraq, they don't include Iran, they don't include Manchuria. However, they DO typically include Bulgaria, Finland, Hungary, and Romania, and (less often) Croatia, Slovakia Thailand. You can review the sources that list Axis powers in the article, but the convenience of anyone reading this page, here's the main ones:

  • Facts About the American Wars, Bowman, p. 432 - This lists Albania, Bulgaria, Finland, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Japan, Romania, and Thailand. It discusses Croatia as well but is a bit ambiguous about whether it was an Axis member. It mentions Iraq but does not define it as having been a member of the Axis, but instead as a "puppet state" of the Allies. It explicitly describes Spain as having been neutral. There is no mention at all of Vichy France here.
  • The Library of Congress World War II Companion, Wagner, Osborne, & Reyburn, p. 39 - this defines the Axis as including Germany, Italy, Japan, Croatia, Finland, Bulgaria, Hungary, Romania, and Slovakia. Notably it does not mention Thailand. It also does not mention Iraq, Vichy France etc. as Axis countries.
  • Germany and the Axis Powers, DiNardo, particularly p.92-3 - this book does contain a list as such, and primarily focuses on Europe, but the following countries are explicitly described as Axis powers throughout the book: Germany, Italy, Japan, Finland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria. It is more equivocal about Slovakia and Croatia, describing them as puppet countries - this does not mean they were not Axis powers in the view of the author, but neither confirms that they were. There is no mention of Iraq, Vichy France, and the usual suspects, in the context of describing who was part of the Axis.

I could understand someone, based on the Bowman reference, wanting to add Albania, but since this does not match what other sources say about Albania in WW2 I'm inclined not to. Similarly I could understand someone wanting to remove Thailand since only Bowman includes in their list, though other sources appear to support this (see the sources in the section about Thailand, including the Thai historical dictionary). I can even understand just limiting the Axis to Germany, Italy, and Japan since many books/articles do only talk about those countries as "the Axis". What I can't understand is constantly trying to add Iraq/Vichy/USSR/whatever without any sources at all. FOARP (talk) 09:57, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Albania was invaded and occupied, Thailand was not. Slatersteven (talk) 11:32, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Generally agree Steve, but more to the point: no other source I've seen says Albania was a member of the Axis so Bowman seems an outlier here. FOARP (talk) 10:23, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 August 2024

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R3YBOl (talk) 22:15, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I noticed that they removed kingdom of iraq from the axis states meanwhile after the success of the iraqi coup detat in 1941 Iraq joined the axis states, Someone who deleted the article of the kingdom of iraq in this page, So I hope you guys fix it and thank you for your service Here the article for making it easy to copy and paste

Do you have evidence that they joined the Axis? The Banner talk 23:03, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 23:50, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 August 2024

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Add Oxford commas. 64.189.18.44 (talk) 15:59, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done Not clear what the request is. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. The Banner talk 16:34, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Maps

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See Talk:Allies of World War II#Maps. -- Beland (talk) 07:21, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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