Talk:Phil Collins: Difference between revisions
→Drumeo documentary: Reply |
|||
(221 intermediate revisions by 91 users not shown) | |||
Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
{{ |
{{Talk header}} |
||
{{Article history|action1=FAC |
|||
{{WikiProjectBanners|blp=yes|1= |
|||
{{WPBiography|living=yes|class=C|priority=Mid|musician-work-group=yes|listas=Collins, Phil}} |
|||
{{WPRock|class=C|importance=high}} |
|||
{{WikiProject Percussion |class=C|importance=mid}} |
|||
{{WikiProject London|class=C|importance=low}} |
|||
{{Progressive Rock|class=C|importance=low}} |
|||
{{Talk Spoken Wikipedia|Phil_Collins.ogg}}}} |
|||
{{NFS}} |
|||
{{ArticleHistory |
|||
|action1=FAC |
|||
|action1date=04:34, 11 January 2006 |
|action1date=04:34, 11 January 2006 |
||
|action1link=Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Phil Collins/archive1 |
|action1link=Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Phil Collins/archive1 |
||
Line 35: | Line 26: | ||
|maindate=June 13, 2006 |
|maindate=June 13, 2006 |
||
|currentstatus=FFA |
|currentstatus=FFA |
||
}} |
|||
{{British English}} |
|||
{{WikiProject banner shell|blp=yes|class=C|vital=yes|listas=Collins, Phil|1= |
|||
{{WikiProject Biography|musician-priority=Mid|musician-work-group=yes}} |
|||
{{WikiProject Rock music|importance=high}} |
|||
{{WikiProject Percussion|importance=mid}} |
|||
{{WikiProject London|importance=low}} |
|||
{{WikiProject Progressive Rock|importance=low}} |
|||
{{WikiProject Disney|importance=mid}} |
|||
{{WikiProject Spoken Wikipedia}} |
|||
{{WikiProject Pop music|importance=high}} |
|||
}} |
|||
{{User:MiszaBot/config |
|||
|algo = old(30d) |
|||
|archive = Talk:Phil Collins/Archive %(counter)d |
|||
|counter = 2 |
|||
|maxarchivesize = 150K |
|||
|archiveheader = {{tan}} |
|||
|minthreadstoarchive = 1 |
|||
|minthreadsleft = 2 |
|||
}} |
|||
{{Broken anchors|links= |
|||
* <nowiki>[[Disney Legends#2002|Disney Legend]]</nowiki> The anchor (#2002) is no longer available because it was [[Special:Diff/570889038|deleted by a user]] before. <!-- {"title":"2002","appear":{"revid":563901507,"parentid":563884392,"timestamp":"2013-07-12T02:35:03Z","removed_section_titles":[],"added_section_titles":["1987","1988","1989","1990","1991","1992","1993","1994","1995","1996","1997","1998","1999","2000","2001","2002","2003","2004","2005","2006","2007","2008","2009","2010","2011","2013"]},"disappear":{"revid":570889038,"parentid":569690258,"timestamp":"2013-08-31T02:08:22Z","removed_section_titles":["1991","1992","1993","1994","1995","1996","1997","1998","1999","2000","2001","2002","2003","2004","2005","2006","2007","2008","2009","2010","2013"],"added_section_titles":["Class of 1991","Class of 1992","Class of 1993","Class of 1994","Class of 1995","Class of 1996","Class of 1997","Class of 1998","Class of 1999","Class of 2000","Class of 2001","Class of 2002","Class of 2003","Class of 2004","Class of 2005","Class of 2006","Class of 2007","Class of 2008","Class of 2009","Class of 2010","Class of 2013"]}} --> |
|||
}} |
}} |
||
== Description of his relationships to his children and between his children among them in their articles. == |
|||
== Politics == |
|||
I'm pleased to see the nonsense about Collins moving to Switzerland because of Blair's win has been removed. |
|||
Collins has posted comments through the webmaster of the www.philcollins.invisionzone.com, and here is one from 2005: |
|||
''Hi All, I wrote this a while ago after reading the Gallagher's talking about voting Labour if only to keep me from coming back to England. I took offence at that and wrote this, but sat on it... however in the light of the Mirror piece I'm prepared to post it and be d**ned....'' |
|||
''Before I say anything.. let the minutes of this meeting show brothers, that I like a fair bit of what THE OASIS do. They remind me of BEATLES.... a great band and I like being reminded of BEATLES. If you were there the first time round, you might think THE OASIS were a bit similar, what with that Liam and his attitude and his brother Noel... thinking they are as good as them BEATLES. Fact is.... they are a bit pale compared to them BEATLES..... I am, we all are.... Now Liam is just a clot... bop him round the head, and wake him up... Noel is smarter... but only just.... Just because they write a tune or two that reminds us of BEATLES we swoon a bit and reminisce.... but it's only nostalgia really.'' |
|||
''Now....'' |
|||
''I'd like to grab an opportunity to finally lay to rest a much quoted untruth about my Political leanings. I have never been a Conservative, or at least not since being a young teenager. My Father voted Conservative, and even his doing that was a hangover from the 50's and 60's, which may have been an influence on me. I'm sick and tired of being thrown in that same old box... "he's got money.... so he must be..." I once said that if taxes were put up to a level where the Government took home more than me, then I would consider moving out of the Country. The Conservatives were in at that point and I mentioned Labour... if Labour had been in, I would have mentioned Conservative. It was said to make a point over 15 years ago. No one’s asked me since. I don't care if Noel Gallagher likes my music or not.... I do care if he starts telling people I'm a wanker because of my Politics.... an opinion based on an old misunderstood quote.'' |
|||
''I live outside the UK purely because my wife lived here when we met.'' |
|||
''End of story.'' |
|||
''PC'' |
|||
[[User:Ordinary Person|Ordinary Person]] ([[User talk:Ordinary Person|talk]]) 02:04, 6 August 2008 (UTC) |
|||
:: I'm not sure how [[WP:RS|reliable]] that particular website is, but the mai n reason this information was removed from the article was because it wasn't properly cited. Thanks [[User:AreJay|AreJay]] ([[User talk:AreJay|talk]]) 00:46, 7 August 2008 (UTC) |
|||
== List of Phil Collins awards == |
|||
Hi, |
|||
can someone put that article in the right way, with wikipedia standards, best in table form, because it could be cancelled. |
|||
Thanks. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/79.213.90.183|79.213.90.183]] ([[User talk:79.213.90.183|talk]]) 15:26, 16 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
== phil collins == |
|||
tot va ser un montatge el no composava <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/85.50.108.247|85.50.108.247]] ([[User talk:85.50.108.247|talk]]) 11:43, 26 September 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
== £17M == |
|||
The article says that Collins paid £17M to his second wife. Is this 17.000 or 17.000.000 pounds? Someone from out-of-England like me won't know! [[User:FAThomssen|FAThomssen]] ([[User talk:FAThomssen|talk]]) 09:49, 17 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
:In currency a capital M means million. and K = thousands. Confusing with french Mille etc, but it is standar in English.[[User:Yobmod|Yobmod]] ([[User talk:Yobmod|talk]]) 10:16, 17 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
== "In the Air Tonight" Rumour == |
|||
The main article states, "This path was inspired by the death of his good childhood friend, Patrick Michael Fithen, who drowned a year before in a pond outside of London." This would lend evidence to the rumour that "In the Air Tonight" is based on a true experience from Phil Collins life. Snopes.com (2006) provides the complete rumour and variations on it, and also marks it as false. I have seen at least one interview in which Mr. Collins denies the rumour is true, saying he has no idea where it came from. Unfortunately, I cannot cite the interview properly. I can only say I believe I saw it on the American Ovation Channel. It was a rather recent interview, having taken place in the last few years. I will try to locate the source and post it if I can. |
|||
While providing a complete name of the child who supposedly drowned in the article gives the appearance of credibility, the sentence should be removed until references can be provided. There's just too much evidence to the contrary. |
|||
References |
|||
Snopes.com (2006, July 30). ''In the Air Tonight''. Urban Legends Reference Pages. Retreived November 21, 2008 from http://www.snopes.com/music/songs/intheair.asp |
|||
--[[User:Mdgill|Mdgill]] ([[User talk:Mdgill|talk]]) 16:38, 21 November 2008 (UTC) |
|||
:Collins has also said that he doesn't know what the song was about on two television specials. "VH1's Storytellers" and "Classic Albums: Face Value" are the two. I believe that the sentence should actually be removed, since it is unsourced and seems extremly dubious. In fact, I've followed Collins' career for a while, other than Wikipedia I've never heard of that before! I'll remove it, and if anyone can provide a citation or proof, feel free to add a reference. [[User:CarpetCrawler|CarpetCrawler]] ([[User talk:CarpetCrawler|talk]]) 18:35, 21 November 2008 (UTC) |
|||
== Operation == |
|||
I just heard on Fox News Channel that Phil may have to give up his career because of a vertebrae operation. Should I put that in then? [[User:FotoPhest|FotoPhest]] ([[User talk:FotoPhest|talk]]) 22:55, 13 September 2009 (UTC) |
|||
== Early Life citations == |
|||
I notice as a general feature of Wiki biographies that early life events often lack citation. Here, we have the statement that Collins (and elsewhere, Steve Marriot) performed the role of The Artful Dodger in the original London production of ''Oliver!'' No citation, however. I can only find a reference to Marriot having been in the cast (a Jonathan Collins appears in the orphan/Fagin's gang list) in the Guide to Musical Theatre website. Can anyone produce evidence that these are facts? <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Alvingrung|Alvingrung]] ([[User talk:Alvingrung|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Alvingrung|contribs]]) 13:00, 8 April 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
== Someone should lock the article. == |
|||
Someone keeps "vandalizing" this entry saying Phil Collins "eats babies". Collins is not a [[cannibal]] of any kind. This needs to be locked to prevent further editing.<br />--[[Special:Contributions/205.214.245.185|205.214.245.185]] ([[User talk:205.214.245.185|talk]]) 12:15, 3 June 2009 (UTC) |
|||
== An addition to Collins' Work with other artists == |
|||
In 1989, Phil Collins played drums on Woman in Chains, Tears for Fears' second single from the album Seeds of Love. A socially involved song, to say the least. {{unsignedIP|65.92.164.244|07:15, 4 July 2009 (UTC)}} |
|||
== Honorary President of Accrington Stanley FC == |
|||
I don't know the exact dates, but in the mid 90s Collins was honorary president of Accrington Stanley FC. He is listed as such in match programmes of the time.[[User:MidlandLinda|MidlandLinda]] ([[User talk:MidlandLinda|talk]]) 21:22, 3 August 2009 (UTC) |
|||
== Collins drumming contributions to Robert Plant solo albums. == |
|||
No one has mentioned Collins' drumming on Robert Plant's first two solo albums or that Collins played drums for the supporting tour of the second album even though he was quite successful as a lead in Genesis and his own solo carrer at the same time. It is well covered in the Robert Plant article and album articles but should at least be mentioned here. As I am a wiki novice, I leave it up to experianced wiki wizards to make any changes to the article. I will provide citations from the other wiki articles. You folks can research actual sources as these must be in the other wiki articles. |
|||
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Plant |
|||
"Although Plant avoided performing Led Zeppelin songs through much of this period, his tours in 1983 (with superstar drummer Phil Collins). . . " |
|||
Following an edit war on the articles of his children (specifically [[Joely Collins|Joely]], [[Simon Collins|Simon]] and [[Lily Collins|Lily]]), I'm starting this discussion in hopes of finding consensus on the correct way of describing how these three of his children are related to one another. |
|||
The situation is as follows: Phil adopted his first wife's daughter Joely and then had a bioligical song with that same first wife. This makes him Joely's adoptive father and Simon's father, while Joely and Simon are maternal half siblings. Then Phil had a second daughter, Lily, with his second wife. That makes here the adoptive sister of Joely and the paternal half sister of Simon. |
|||
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pictures_at_Eleven |
|||
And that is the way I tried to correctly describe them in their articles tonight, per our own article [[siblings]]. However, there is one user who just keeps reverting every user trying to change this information and whom I resultlessly tried to discuss with on their talk page. |
|||
"Pictures at Eleven is the debut solo album by former Led Zeppelin singer Robert Plant. Genesis drummer Phil Collins played drums for six of the album's eight songs." "Phil Collins - drums on 1-3, 5-6, 8, 9 & 10" |
|||
So therefore I start this discussion in the hope of finding consensus with the input of other editors. |
|||
For courtesy I will ping the other users who I'm aware of who made edits on the subject (@[[User:Yours6700|Yours6700]], @[[User:Untamed1910|Untamed1910]], @[[User:2601:580:c180:22d0:e801:13e8:f180:d2f|2601:580:c180:22d0:e801:13e8:f180:d2f]], @[[User:2001:9b0:46::b4d5:2bcd|2001:9b0:46::b4d5:2bcd]]). If I missed any please ping them here as well. |
|||
Note that due to partial blocks issued while the edit war was ensuing, the articles of Simon and Lily are now in the state in line with my above proposal, while Joely's isn't.[[User:Tvx1|T]][[User Talk:Tvx1|v]][[Special:Contributions/Tvx1|x]]1 00:37, 2 February 2024 (UTC) |
|||
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Principle_of_Moments |
|||
[[User:Tvx1|T]][[User Talk:Tvx1|v]][[Special:Contributions/Tvx1|x]]1 00:23, 2 February 2024 (UTC) |
|||
:See original discussion at {{slink|Talk:Joely Collins|Relationship}} [[User:Geraldo Perez|Geraldo Perez]] ([[User talk:Geraldo Perez|talk]]) 01:13, 2 February 2024 (UTC) |
|||
"Genesis drummer Phil Collins played drums for six of the album's eight songs (as he did on Pictures at Eleven)." "Like Plant's first solo album, Pictures at Eleven, the songs departed from the hard rock of Led Zeppelin. Following the strength of these albums, Plant launched a successful tour in 1983. Phil Collins was the drummer for Plant's band on this tour. Collins was content to perform in the background, despite his own enormous success as a solo artist at the time." "Phil Collins - drums on 1-3, 5-6, 8 + all the bonus tracks on the 2007 reissue." |
|||
:The details of the relationships are in the articles in the "Personal life section". It is fully correct to drop the "adoptive-", "adopted-", "half-" and "step-" modifiers from the relationship descriptions and just refer to the people as they refer to each other. Some adopted people and adoptive parents find the labels offensive and demeaning and never think of their close family that way. It is also unnecessary to do so in a bio article particularly when the details are fully covered in the article with the proper context and explanations. The articles were correct and no information was missing before the changes. There is no compelling reason to add the somewhat demeaning labels. Adoption creates real legal and emotional family links. The links to the bio parent are legally broken with their permission so no longer exist. The bio info is basically trivia that does not need to be in the infobox or lead. [[User:Geraldo Perez|Geraldo Perez]] ([[User talk:Geraldo Perez|talk]]) 01:03, 2 February 2024 (UTC) |
|||
::I don't think we should start making judgements of what is and what is not demeaning to someone. That's POV that we cannot quantify. Moreover, I struggle to see how just describing information accurately and neutrally could be construeer as demeaming. Also, I do not see how you can think that doing things like ignoring Joely Collins' biological father exists is any less demeaning. You need to understand that you are not writing and editing these articles for yourself, but for a general audience. So we need to write what is accurate and non-confusing for all readers, not only what is right in your eyes. Lastly you keep demonstrating a very poor every understanding of the subject do not. Your claim that adoptions always completely break any link with the biological parents is quite patently FALSE. There are various kinds of adoptions and some allow links with the original legal parent(s) to remain. I really don't know what it will take for you to finally accept and also to consider the posibility that you could be wrong here. Stop being so stubborn! |
|||
::But I really want to see other people weigh in here now.[[User:Tvx1|T]][[User Talk:Tvx1|v]][[Special:Contributions/Tvx1|x]]1 01:54, 2 February 2024 (UTC) |
|||
:::Recommendation at [[WP:BRD]] should have been followed and this and the other articles returned to the state before the dispute started per [[WP:STATUSQUO]] and a discussion started when the initial edit was reverted. I see this as a [[WP:BLP]] issue that needs discussion and consensus before changes are made. The article was correct and complete before the changes were made. |
|||
:::Nothing is being ignored, the full details are in the article along with context. I object to adding the unnecessary modifiers in the infobox and lead - they are not used in normal adoptive relationships, and seldom used by most families when talking about each other. And yes some people find them demeaning as it implies a lesser level of relationship. See [[Language of adoption]]. The descriptions there are correct without them. Adoption changes who the legal guardian is, modern adoptions may permit some knowledge and acknowledgment of who the bio-parents are and give them some rights to interact with their bio-kids. It is not the same as fostering. [[User:Geraldo Perez|Geraldo Perez]] ([[User talk:Geraldo Perez|talk]]) 02:22, 2 February 2024 (UTC) |
|||
::::Please actually read what you are citing. [[WP:STATUSQUO]] is an essay and thuis does not override things [[WP:EW]] and [[WP:3RR]]. Hence why you were blocked from editing these pages as well. Your reverts were just as wrong. Also read [[m:THEWRONGVERSION]] |
|||
::::The article wasn't any less "correct" but certainly more complete with my edits. My edit didn't even all concern the adoptive relations in this family. What '''you''' personally consider to be straightforward and logical doesn't necessarily mean it is too for everyone possible reader of world. Your claim about what is the ''normal'' way to describe adoptive relationships is just a personal opinion and not the way how every person in the world sees that. Hence why it doesn't match at all what is explained in our [[sibling]] article. Almost all readers take terms like full and half sibling to mean a biological sibling. The way you insist the articles should be written thus created potential confusion. This is not an informal family gathering, but an encyclopedia and thus we should use non-confusing encylopedic language and remain consistent with other articles. [[User:Tvx1|T]][[User Talk:Tvx1|v]][[Special:Contributions/Tvx1|x]]1 02:52, 8 February 2024 (UTC) |
|||
== Drumeo documentary == |
|||
''[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdGmydR715Q Phil Collins: Drummer First]'' I was going to put this in the external links, but I wanted to get feedback here first. [[User:Mapsax|Mapsax]] ([[User talk:Mapsax|talk]]) 02:35, 22 December 2024 (UTC) |
|||
[[User:Bobroberts248|Bobroberts248]] ([[User talk:Bobroberts248|talk]]) 09:42, 14 August 2009 (UTC) |
|||
:I would support the EL add. Curious how others feel, as well... would look for a consensus here. That beign said, I am concerned with the possibility of a bunch of content being added to the article in the near future with the Drumeo doc being the source - but hopefully it can be kept to only the most significant of points that are not already covered elsewhere in the article. [[User:Picard's_Facepalm|<b>--Picard's Facepalm</b>]] <b style="color:red">•</b> [[Special:Contributions/Picard's_Facepalm| <sup>Made It So</sup>]] [[User talk:Picard's_Facepalm|<i style="color:green"><sub>Engage!</sub></i>]] <b style="color:red">•</b> 15:21, 23 December 2024 (UTC) |
|||
: I think this is fairly irrelevant. Collins was a session drummer for several singers/banks including Jethro Tull, Plant, Clapton, etc. That's already mentioned in the article. There's no need to go into any great detail on this. [[User:AreJay|AreJay]] ([[User talk:AreJay|talk]]) 00:42, 14 September 2009 (UTC) |
|||
The following sentence is currently in the article: "In December 2024, during filming for the web documentary Phil Collins: Drummer First, Collins filmed himself playing the drums for the first time in several years with the help of his son Nic." Having watched the documentary, I have several problems with that. The documentary was not filmed in Dec 2024, but released in Dec 2024. It was filmed October 18-21, 2022 (see the caption by Drumeo). It is in my opinion strange to state that Collins filmed himself, and even more strange to state that he was playing the drums. Sadly, in my eyes nothing more happened than he was given a drum stick and used it to point to drums. I have serious doubts about the reliability of the source used, smoothradio.com. The article there to me does not seem to convey much info and in my eyes reads as though it's meant to be clickbait ("Phil Collins returning to his drum set"!). Personally I found the documentary interesting to watch, but in my opinion we can not get much useful, encyclopedic, new info from it, other than possibly a list of some more names of musicians influenced and/or impressed by Collins's work. Am I too negative/pessimistic about all this? [[User:Mark in wiki|Mark in wiki]] ([[User talk:Mark in wiki|talk]]) 11:06, 5 January 2025 (UTC) |
|||
== Phil Collins In The Air Tonight audio sample: Year Incorrect == |
|||
:Agreed on the lead part of your comment. I will fix it shortly. I also think it is better to ref the YT video of the doc itself, vs. smoothradio. For the latter part of your comment, regarding encyclopedic value - I will have to re-watch it to form an opinion either way... [[User:Picard's_Facepalm|<b>--Picard's Facepalm</b>]] <b style="color:red">•</b> [[Special:Contributions/Picard's_Facepalm| <sup>Made It So</sup>]] [[User talk:Picard's_Facepalm|<i style="color:green"><sub>Engage!</sub></i>]] <b style="color:red">•</b> 16:20, 6 January 2025 (UTC) |
|||
The hit «In The Air Tonight» from the Face Value Album was officially dated 1981 from Atlantic Records, and not 1980 as stated before. In fact, later on the full article «Face Value (1981)» is written. So I thought a correction in this sense must be made. Regards.-[[User:Juanjaviermartinez|Juanjaviermartinez]] ([[User talk:Juanjaviermartinez|talk]]) 15:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC) |
Latest revision as of 16:20, 6 January 2025
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Phil Collins article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2Auto-archiving period: 30 days |
Phil Collins is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on June 13, 2006. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. | Reporting errors |
Description of his relationships to his children and between his children among them in their articles.
[edit]Following an edit war on the articles of his children (specifically Joely, Simon and Lily), I'm starting this discussion in hopes of finding consensus on the correct way of describing how these three of his children are related to one another.
The situation is as follows: Phil adopted his first wife's daughter Joely and then had a bioligical song with that same first wife. This makes him Joely's adoptive father and Simon's father, while Joely and Simon are maternal half siblings. Then Phil had a second daughter, Lily, with his second wife. That makes here the adoptive sister of Joely and the paternal half sister of Simon.
And that is the way I tried to correctly describe them in their articles tonight, per our own article siblings. However, there is one user who just keeps reverting every user trying to change this information and whom I resultlessly tried to discuss with on their talk page.
So therefore I start this discussion in the hope of finding consensus with the input of other editors.
For courtesy I will ping the other users who I'm aware of who made edits on the subject (@Yours6700, @Untamed1910, @2601:580:c180:22d0:e801:13e8:f180:d2f, @2001:9b0:46::b4d5:2bcd). If I missed any please ping them here as well.
Note that due to partial blocks issued while the edit war was ensuing, the articles of Simon and Lily are now in the state in line with my above proposal, while Joely's isn't.Tvx1 00:37, 2 February 2024 (UTC) Tvx1 00:23, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
- See original discussion at Talk:Joely Collins § Relationship Geraldo Perez (talk) 01:13, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
- The details of the relationships are in the articles in the "Personal life section". It is fully correct to drop the "adoptive-", "adopted-", "half-" and "step-" modifiers from the relationship descriptions and just refer to the people as they refer to each other. Some adopted people and adoptive parents find the labels offensive and demeaning and never think of their close family that way. It is also unnecessary to do so in a bio article particularly when the details are fully covered in the article with the proper context and explanations. The articles were correct and no information was missing before the changes. There is no compelling reason to add the somewhat demeaning labels. Adoption creates real legal and emotional family links. The links to the bio parent are legally broken with their permission so no longer exist. The bio info is basically trivia that does not need to be in the infobox or lead. Geraldo Perez (talk) 01:03, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think we should start making judgements of what is and what is not demeaning to someone. That's POV that we cannot quantify. Moreover, I struggle to see how just describing information accurately and neutrally could be construeer as demeaming. Also, I do not see how you can think that doing things like ignoring Joely Collins' biological father exists is any less demeaning. You need to understand that you are not writing and editing these articles for yourself, but for a general audience. So we need to write what is accurate and non-confusing for all readers, not only what is right in your eyes. Lastly you keep demonstrating a very poor every understanding of the subject do not. Your claim that adoptions always completely break any link with the biological parents is quite patently FALSE. There are various kinds of adoptions and some allow links with the original legal parent(s) to remain. I really don't know what it will take for you to finally accept and also to consider the posibility that you could be wrong here. Stop being so stubborn!
- But I really want to see other people weigh in here now.Tvx1 01:54, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
- Recommendation at WP:BRD should have been followed and this and the other articles returned to the state before the dispute started per WP:STATUSQUO and a discussion started when the initial edit was reverted. I see this as a WP:BLP issue that needs discussion and consensus before changes are made. The article was correct and complete before the changes were made.
- Nothing is being ignored, the full details are in the article along with context. I object to adding the unnecessary modifiers in the infobox and lead - they are not used in normal adoptive relationships, and seldom used by most families when talking about each other. And yes some people find them demeaning as it implies a lesser level of relationship. See Language of adoption. The descriptions there are correct without them. Adoption changes who the legal guardian is, modern adoptions may permit some knowledge and acknowledgment of who the bio-parents are and give them some rights to interact with their bio-kids. It is not the same as fostering. Geraldo Perez (talk) 02:22, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
- Please actually read what you are citing. WP:STATUSQUO is an essay and thuis does not override things WP:EW and WP:3RR. Hence why you were blocked from editing these pages as well. Your reverts were just as wrong. Also read m:THEWRONGVERSION
- The article wasn't any less "correct" but certainly more complete with my edits. My edit didn't even all concern the adoptive relations in this family. What you personally consider to be straightforward and logical doesn't necessarily mean it is too for everyone possible reader of world. Your claim about what is the normal way to describe adoptive relationships is just a personal opinion and not the way how every person in the world sees that. Hence why it doesn't match at all what is explained in our sibling article. Almost all readers take terms like full and half sibling to mean a biological sibling. The way you insist the articles should be written thus created potential confusion. This is not an informal family gathering, but an encyclopedia and thus we should use non-confusing encylopedic language and remain consistent with other articles. Tvx1 02:52, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
Drumeo documentary
[edit]Phil Collins: Drummer First I was going to put this in the external links, but I wanted to get feedback here first. Mapsax (talk) 02:35, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- I would support the EL add. Curious how others feel, as well... would look for a consensus here. That beign said, I am concerned with the possibility of a bunch of content being added to the article in the near future with the Drumeo doc being the source - but hopefully it can be kept to only the most significant of points that are not already covered elsewhere in the article. --Picard's Facepalm • Made It So Engage! • 15:21, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
The following sentence is currently in the article: "In December 2024, during filming for the web documentary Phil Collins: Drummer First, Collins filmed himself playing the drums for the first time in several years with the help of his son Nic." Having watched the documentary, I have several problems with that. The documentary was not filmed in Dec 2024, but released in Dec 2024. It was filmed October 18-21, 2022 (see the caption by Drumeo). It is in my opinion strange to state that Collins filmed himself, and even more strange to state that he was playing the drums. Sadly, in my eyes nothing more happened than he was given a drum stick and used it to point to drums. I have serious doubts about the reliability of the source used, smoothradio.com. The article there to me does not seem to convey much info and in my eyes reads as though it's meant to be clickbait ("Phil Collins returning to his drum set"!). Personally I found the documentary interesting to watch, but in my opinion we can not get much useful, encyclopedic, new info from it, other than possibly a list of some more names of musicians influenced and/or impressed by Collins's work. Am I too negative/pessimistic about all this? Mark in wiki (talk) 11:06, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
- Agreed on the lead part of your comment. I will fix it shortly. I also think it is better to ref the YT video of the doc itself, vs. smoothradio. For the latter part of your comment, regarding encyclopedic value - I will have to re-watch it to form an opinion either way... --Picard's Facepalm • Made It So Engage! • 16:20, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
- Wikipedia former featured articles
- Featured articles that have appeared on the main page
- Featured articles that have appeared on the main page once
- Old requests for peer review
- Wikipedia articles that use British English
- Biography articles of living people
- C-Class level-5 vital articles
- Wikipedia level-5 vital articles in People
- C-Class vital articles in People
- C-Class biography articles
- C-Class biography (musicians) articles
- Mid-importance biography (musicians) articles
- Musicians work group articles
- WikiProject Biography articles
- C-Class Rock music articles
- High-importance Rock music articles
- WikiProject Rock music articles
- C-Class Percussion articles
- Mid-importance Percussion articles
- C-Class London-related articles
- Low-importance London-related articles
- C-Class Progressive rock articles
- Low-importance Progressive rock articles
- C-Class Disney articles
- Mid-importance Disney articles
- C-Class Disney articles of Mid-importance
- WikiProject Disney articles
- C-Class Pop music articles
- High-importance Pop music articles
- Pop music articles