Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Frank Fellows Gray

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. The main problem that was expressed in this discussion was that the article lacked notability and verifiability due to the lack of coverage in reliable, third party sources. In response, a couple users provided sources to the point where the problems expressed by deletion !votes had been addressed to, to at least some extent (for example, it has been verified that Gray was one of the early founders of the Boy Scouts in the United States). As a result, as was pointed out by the succeeding comment and keep !vote, a certain level of notability and verifiability was established. Non-admin closure. ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 04:38, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Frank Fellows Gray

Frank Fellows Gray (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Delete, lack of sources to back up claim doing a google news archive search found only one mention [[1]] Hell In A Bucket (talk) 15:44, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

RATIONALE FOR INCLUSION

I commend and respect your careful watching of pages but I think his notability is reflected in his actual accomplishments, recognition by BSA at their 25th Anniversary (1935), the unique and singular designation of Troop 4 Montclair as THE WORLDS ONLY "Baden Powell Troop", the naming of an almost 100 year old camp for him from the outset (now Bergen County Park) which people might reasonably expect Wikipedia to enlighten them about (the Camp is referenced elsewhere in Wikipedia).

There may be some rationale I am missing why news is the criteria for Google search but more broadly here are credible confirmations:

Here are the links that demonstrate this:

Yale University: http://yufind.library.yale.edu/yufind/Record/2657069 notes him as author

FindAGrave: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=55011492 read the picture of his monmument.

Glen Gray: http://www.glengray.org/75.html note BSA Plaque

Newark Star Ledger: http://www.glengray.org/fogg/NewsArticles/StarLedger2-6-02.htm $5M for the camp and kept his name on it! 2002

NYNJCT Botany Website: http://www.nynjctbotany.org/njhltofc/glengray.html confirms his 1917 founding of the Camp.

Syracuse University: http://books.google.com/books?id=O8IVAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA844&lpg=PA844&dq=%22frank+fellows+gray%22&source=bl&ots=ad0BtzBSNQ&sig=WI-pY7Vv4dEgXBDM5J-Km2erKG8&hl=en&ei=nIxATM6fKsG78gasysiZDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CCMQ6AEwBQ

Google books scan confirms his attendance there and Phi Delta Theta Membership

I believe all of these meet the Wikipedia standard for inclusion and will allow other scholars to amend, add or correct any errors.

I am not associated with Glen Gray past or present (hope to visit someday). Just a missing piece of NJ and Scout history that should be accessible to everyone so they do not have to scrounge around the internet like I did to assemble the article.

Dalcrow (talk) 16:57, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for understanding my reasoning I did not see those references when I had searched so I can understand your rationale. I am not opposed to withdrawing considering the circumstances. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 17:05, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

No problem - got out my digital copy of In The Dark and playing Touch of Grey for us and Mr. Gray!

Miss Jerry too! Will wait to see if others chime in. Dalcrow (talk) 17:32, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 03:00, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

• Weak Delete - the article makes claims that, if confirmed, would be grounds for notability (i.e. that he founded the first Scout troop in the United States). Unfortunately, it's not very well referenced at the moment - most of the information here is only supported by non-independent sources (i.e. the Glen Gray website). If better references to third-party sources can't be found, I have to conclude the subject of the article is not notable. Robofish (talk) 14:29, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

• References Added - added four references confirming some of the key elements for notability. Anyone who does not appreciate the level of effort Wikipedia Editors apply to each article has not tried to write one! Keep up the good work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dalcrow (talk • contribs) 14:48, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

• Keep Refs establish notability. Lionel (talk) 05:22, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.