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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.'' |
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The result was '''delete'''. The consensus appears to be that the lack of significant coverage at RS means that the article does not meet the criteria for inclusion at this time -- '''''[[User:Phantomsteve|<span style="color:#307D7E;">Phantom</span><span style="color:#55CAFA;">Steve</span>]]'''''/[[User talk:Phantomsteve|<span style="color:#008000;">talk</span>]]|[[Special:Contributions/Phantomsteve|<span style="color:#000080;">contribs</span>]]\ 08:27, 7 August 2010 (UTC) |
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===[[Chailie Ho]]=== |
===[[Chailie Ho]]=== |
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:{{la|Chailie Ho}} – (<includeonly>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chailie Ho|View AfD]]</includeonly><noinclude>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2010 July |
:{{la|Chailie Ho}} – (<includeonly>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chailie Ho|View AfD]]</includeonly><noinclude>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2010 July 30#{{anchorencode:Chailie Ho}}|View log]]</noinclude>{{•}} {{plainlink|1=http://toolserver.org/~betacommand/cgi-bin/afdparser?afd={{urlencode:Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chailie Ho}}|2=AfD statistics}}) |
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:({{Find sources|Chailie Ho}}) |
:({{Find sources|Chailie Ho}}) |
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Non-notable individual lacking GHits of substance and with zero GNEWs. Appears to fail [[WP:BIO]]. [[User:Ttonyb1|<span style="font-weight:bold; color:blue; text-shadow:grey 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em; letter-spacing: 2px; padding: 1px 3px;"> <i>ttonyb</i></span>]] ([[User talk:Ttonyb1#top|talk]]) 14:59, 16 July 2010 (UTC) |
Non-notable individual lacking GHits of substance and with zero GNEWs. Appears to fail [[WP:BIO]]. [[User:Ttonyb1|<span style="font-weight:bold; color:blue; text-shadow:grey 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em; letter-spacing: 2px; padding: 1px 3px;"> <i>ttonyb</i></span>]] ([[User talk:Ttonyb1#top|talk]]) 14:59, 16 July 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Comment''' Coverage in Chinese is also quite thin ({{find|何裕钗}}). There are thousands of reprints of a passing mention in a [[Xinhua News Agency|Xinhua]] article [http://www.chinanews.com.cn/olympic/news/2008/07-15/1312542.shtml]; when you exclude those [http://www.google.com.hk/search?q=%22%E4%BD%95%E8%A3%95%E9%87%B5%22+-%22%E5%8D%8E%E4%BA%BA%E8%AE%BE%E8%AE%A1%E5%B8%88%E4%BD%95%E8%A3%95%E9%92%97%E5%B0%8F%E5%A7%90%E6%A0%B9%E6%8D%AE%E5%A5%A5%E8%BF%90%E9%A2%98%E6%9D%90%E5%88%9B%E4%BD%9C%22&btnG=%E6%90%9C%E5%B0%8B&hl=zh-TW&sa=2], all that remains is one article about her on a fashion news website [http://www.fumin.com/info/html/200611/96187.html] and a bunch of blogs. Of the awards she's received, Fashion World Talent Awards might be notable ({{find|時裝世界精英大獎}}); the other two do not appear to be. [[User:CaliforniaAliBaba|cab]] ([[User talk:CaliforniaAliBaba|talk]]) 07:51, 17 July 2010 (UTC) |
*'''Comment''' Coverage in Chinese is also quite thin ({{find|何裕钗}}). There are thousands of reprints of a passing mention in a [[Xinhua News Agency|Xinhua]] article [http://www.chinanews.com.cn/olympic/news/2008/07-15/1312542.shtml]; when you exclude those [http://www.google.com.hk/search?q=%22%E4%BD%95%E8%A3%95%E9%87%B5%22+-%22%E5%8D%8E%E4%BA%BA%E8%AE%BE%E8%AE%A1%E5%B8%88%E4%BD%95%E8%A3%95%E9%92%97%E5%B0%8F%E5%A7%90%E6%A0%B9%E6%8D%AE%E5%A5%A5%E8%BF%90%E9%A2%98%E6%9D%90%E5%88%9B%E4%BD%9C%22&btnG=%E6%90%9C%E5%B0%8B&hl=zh-TW&sa=2], all that remains is one article about her on a fashion news website [http://www.fumin.com/info/html/200611/96187.html] and a bunch of blogs. Of the awards she's received, Fashion World Talent Awards might be notable ({{find|時裝世界精英大獎}}); the other two do not appear to be. [[User:CaliforniaAliBaba|cab]] ([[User talk:CaliforniaAliBaba|talk]]) 07:51, 17 July 2010 (UTC) |
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:*'''Comment''' – She did not win an award, she was only a finalist. [[User:Ttonyb1|<span style="font-weight:bold; color:blue; text-shadow:grey 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em; letter-spacing: 2px; padding: 1px 3px;"> <i>ttonyb</i></span>]] ([[User talk:Ttonyb1#top|talk]]) 14:34, 17 July 2010 (UTC) |
:*'''Comment''' – She did not win an award, she was only a finalist. [[User:Ttonyb1|<span style="font-weight:bold; color:blue; text-shadow:grey 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em; letter-spacing: 2px; padding: 1px 3px;"> <i>ttonyb</i></span>]] ([[User talk:Ttonyb1#top|talk]]) 14:34, 17 July 2010 (UTC) |
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:*'''Comment''' - Although she was only a finalist in Fashion World Talent Awards, she has been in 4 out of 7 episodes of the whole TV programme that widely broadcast in one of the four main free TV channel in Hong Kong [http://living.hk.msn.com/fashionstyle/fashion/%E6%99%82%E8%A3%9D%E4%B8%96%E7%95%8C%E7%B2%BE%E8%8B%B1%E5%A4%A7%E7%8D%8E%20%20%E7%99%BC%E6%8E%98%E6%99%82%E8%A3%9D%E7%95%8C%E6%98%8E%E6%97%A5%E4%B9%8B%E6%98%9F_article_3_2026_1.asp]. This award is notable as ({{find|時裝世界精英大獎}})already has 57,700 hits in google and it has been published across different media. She has been interviewed by papierdoll magazine [http://www.papierdoll.net/themag/2007/03/10/interview-with-chailie-ho/] and approved by the Hong Kong Design Centre [http://www.designdirectory.hk/html/?ab=OTg3OTc4Nzcy&lang=] as a part of the Hong Kong Design Directory [http://www.designdirectory.hk/html/?hp=b2lldWpyaWpuazgyNHU4M3U4NDMyODA=&uid=MjE1OQ==&page=MQ==&lang=&order=ZGF0ZXRpbWVfZWRpdA==&asc=REVTQw==&h=ODU3ODk3ODk3NDE1NDU0&nature=QXBwYXJlbCslMkYrRmFzaGlvbithY2Nlc3NvcmllcyslMkYrSmV3ZWxsZXJ5]. The Hong Kong Government also granted her a government fund called Design Incubation Programme [http://www.hkstp.org/HKSTPC/download/ENHtml/innocentre-brochure-output20100226160101.pdf] where the priority are given to companies that are market leaders (actual or potential) engage in design activities in their field [http://www.innocentre.org.hk/innocentre/EN/images/admission_criteria_and_application_innocentre.pdf]. She become one of the government funded incubatee [http://www.innocentre.org.hk/innocentre/EN/FE#Tenants_and_incubates/Incubates_directory] that shows she is well recognize. |
:*'''Comment''' - Although she was only a finalist in Fashion World Talent Awards, she has been in 4 out of 7 episodes of the whole TV programme that widely broadcast in one of the four main free TV channel in Hong Kong [http://living.hk.msn.com/fashionstyle/fashion/%E6%99%82%E8%A3%9D%E4%B8%96%E7%95%8C%E7%B2%BE%E8%8B%B1%E5%A4%A7%E7%8D%8E%20%20%E7%99%BC%E6%8E%98%E6%99%82%E8%A3%9D%E7%95%8C%E6%98%8E%E6%97%A5%E4%B9%8B%E6%98%9F_article_3_2026_1.asp]. This award is notable as ({{find|時裝世界精英大獎}})already has 57,700 hits in google and it has been published across different media. She has been interviewed by papierdoll magazine [http://www.papierdoll.net/themag/2007/03/10/interview-with-chailie-ho/] and approved by the Hong Kong Design Centre [http://www.designdirectory.hk/html/?ab=OTg3OTc4Nzcy&lang=] as a part of the Hong Kong Design Directory [http://www.designdirectory.hk/html/?hp=b2lldWpyaWpuazgyNHU4M3U4NDMyODA=&uid=MjE1OQ==&page=MQ==&lang=&order=ZGF0ZXRpbWVfZWRpdA==&asc=REVTQw==&h=ODU3ODk3ODk3NDE1NDU0&nature=QXBwYXJlbCslMkYrRmFzaGlvbithY2Nlc3NvcmllcyslMkYrSmV3ZWxsZXJ5]. The Hong Kong Government also granted her a government fund called Design Incubation Programme [http://www.hkstp.org/HKSTPC/download/ENHtml/innocentre-brochure-output20100226160101.pdf] where the priority are given to companies that are market leaders (actual or potential) engage in design activities in their field [http://www.innocentre.org.hk/innocentre/EN/images/admission_criteria_and_application_innocentre.pdf]. She become one of the government funded incubatee [http://www.innocentre.org.hk/innocentre/EN/FE#Tenants_and_incubates/Incubates_directory] that shows she is well recognize. Coverage in English for Chailie Ho ({{find|Chailie Ho}}) is more than the fashion designer Betty Charnuis({{find|Betty Charnuis}}), who is already exist in wikipedia for more than a year[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_Charnuis], so Chailie Ho should not be delete. [[User:okojoj|<span style=" color:blue; text-shadow:grey 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em; letter-spacing: 2px; padding: 1px 3px;"> <i>okojoj</i></span>]]([[User talk:okojoj|talk]]) 05:05, 13 July 2010 <small>— [[User:Okojoj|Okojoj]] ([[User talk:Okojoj|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Okojoj|contribs]]) has made [[Wikipedia:Single-purpose account|few or no other edits]] outside this topic. </small> |
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Coverage in English for Chailie Ho ({{find|Chailie Ho}}) is more than the fashion designer Betty Charnuis({{find|Betty Charnuis}}), who is already exist in wikipedia for more than a year, so Chailie Ho should not be delete. [[User:okojoj|<span style=" color:blue; text-shadow:grey 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em; letter-spacing: 2px; padding: 1px 3px;"> <i>okojoj</i></span>]]([[User talk:okojoj|talk]]) 05:05, 13 July 2010 |
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:<span style="color:#FF4F00;">'''[[WP:RELIST|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Ron Ritzman|Ron Ritzman]] ([[User talk:Ron Ritzman|talk]]) 00:01, 23 July 2010 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --> |
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*'''Keep''' - Low overall importance perhaps, but reasonably notable within a single subject which cannot be sourced traditionally. The fact that she's mentioned on so many international fashion blogs is indicative of a heightened level of recognition in the field. The interview in Papierdoll is a good English source. Just needs expansion. [[User:SteveStrummer|SteveStrummer]] ([[User talk:SteveStrummer|talk]]) 02:22, 24 July 2010 (UTC) |
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:<span style="color:#FF4F00;">'''[[WP:RELIST|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Ron Ritzman|Ron Ritzman]] ([[User talk:Ron Ritzman|talk]]) 00:08, 30 July 2010 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --> |
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*'''Second relist rationale'''. The article is a [[WP:BLP|BLP]]. --[[User:Ron Ritzman|Ron Ritzman]] ([[User talk:Ron Ritzman|talk]]) 00:08, 30 July 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete''' per my comment above. The number, depth, and types of sources mentioned in this discussion do not convince me that she passes [[WP:BIO]], and I haven't been able to find anything additional in English or Chinese. Furthermore, the Design Incubation Programme is not a selective award nor a recognition of past accomplishments --- it's just a way for people in certain industries to get government-subsidised office space in [[Kowloon Tong]]. [[User:CaliforniaAliBaba|cab]] ([[User talk:CaliforniaAliBaba|call]]) 00:19, 30 July 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Keep''' - Except the US fashion website Papierdoll, there are other links about her such as the BBC China [http://www.bbc.co.uk/china/lifeintheuk/windowtouk/story/2008/05/080519_chinese_fashion.shtml], Chinese fashion website YOKA [http://www.yoka.com/fashion/model/2010/pic012559295.shtml] and FWTA official page[http://www.fwta.com.hk/en/participant-showcase/fashion-designers]. There are also links about her in other languages such as Danish [http://www.ofag.dk/Webnodes/da/Web/CMS/Media/Billedarkiv/HCA-fotos+af+Omar+Ingerslev] and Japanese [http://0cm.jp/?tag=FULLfat]. Her works have also been broadcasted in the FWTA TV programme where its coverage included Hong Kong, China and Asia Pacific countries. I can also find many people who is in fashion industry mentioned her in their blogs. [[User:Kleeer|Kleeer]] <small>— [[User:Kleeer|Kleeer]] ([[User talk:Kleeer|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Kleeer|contribs]]) has made [[Wikipedia:Single-purpose account|few or no other edits]] outside this topic. </small> |
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:*'''Comment''' – Most of the refs you refer to don't even mention this person and the ones that do are hardly more than a mention of the individual's name. None of this meets the criteria in [[WP:BIO]] using [[WP:RS]]. [[User:Ttonyb1|<span style="font-weight:bold; color:blue; text-shadow:grey 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em; letter-spacing: 2px; padding: 1px 3px;"> <i>ttonyb</i></span>]] ([[User talk:Ttonyb1#top|talk]]) 18:50, 6 August 2010 (UTC) |
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:*'''Comment''' – Four out of five links I provide not only mention about this person's name (in Chinese or English), also the show/work she did, where fashion website YOKA is the one just featured her works [http://www.yoka.com/fashion/model/2010/pic012559295.shtml][http://www.yoka.com/fashion/model/2010/pic012559296.shtml]. The links are news website or official website, they are more focus on the shows she did instead of only talk about her individual personality or works. Her name not need to mentioned many times in the same article or web, but it already shows coverage of her in different sources. Also you can find a depth interview of her in Papierdoll magazine [http://www.papierdoll.net/themag/2007/03/10/interview-with-chailie-ho/]. [[User:Kleeer|Kleeer]] ([[User talk:Kleeer|talk]]) |
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*'''Comment''' – There is a total sum of HK$260,000(US$34,000) funding offer to each incubatee in the Design Incubation Program, while it is only offer to 30 funding receivers[http://www.innocentre.org.hk/innocentre/EN/FE#Tenants_and_incubates/Incubates_directory] in the Hong Kong design industry now, and only THREE of the funding receivers are in fashion design. This is obvious that the offers are very selective and the receivers must have outstanding reputations in their own field to receive the fund. I agree with SteveStrummer that she need further expansion, but I think she is well-recogonised in the field and definitely worth to keep. [[User:Kleeer|Kleeer]] ([[User talk:Kleeer|talk]])<small>— [[User:Kleeer|Kleeer]] ([[User talk:Kleeer|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Kleeer|contribs]]) has made [[Wikipedia:Single-purpose account|few or no other edits]] outside this topic. </small> |
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:*'''Comment''' – If one looks at the application for acceptance to the program there is nothing in it that says anything about meeting criteria that meets the criteria in [[WP:BIO]]. Even the section (section 1.03 of the application) that talks about being a "leader" in there field says that they can be a potential leader. I read potential as not meeting [[WP:BIO]].[[User:Ttonyb1|<span style="font-weight:bold; color:blue; text-shadow:grey 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em; letter-spacing: 2px; padding: 1px 3px;"> <i>ttonyb</i></span>]] ([[User talk:Ttonyb1#top|talk]]) 18:50, 6 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete''' per the lack of significant coverage in [[WP:RS|reliable sources]]. I have reviewed [[User:CaliforniaAliBaba|cab]]'s comments above and concur with cab that Chailie Ho is not notable. {{user|SteveStrummer}}'s argument that the subject is notable because she is mentioned in many blogs, which is tantamount to arguing about the number of [[WP:GOOGLEHITS]], is not compatible with the guideline [[Wikipedia:Notability (people)]] and the policy [[Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons]]. [[User:Cunard|Cunard]] ([[User talk:Cunard|talk]]) 01:13, 7 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*<s>'''Keep'''</s> '''Comment''' – No matter people regard her as a "leader" or "potential leader" in the field, it is a recogonition of her from the Hong Kong government. Yet not all fashion designers in wikipedia have been defined as "market leaders" where many of them are upcoming designers. It is not only about how the wording decribe the fund receivers in the application of the program, it is the fact that for a government to fund such amount of tax payer's money to support someone, they must be representable in the industry.(Compare with one of the biggest fashion sponsorship NEWGEN in London Fashion Week[http://www.londonfashionweek.co.uk/content.aspx?CategoryID=519], the amount of fund that the Design Incubation Program provided is double.) That explain why only little number of people in the design industry being offer this fund. [[User:Kleeer|Kleeer]] ([[User talk:Kleeer|talk]]) <small>— [[User:Kleeer|Kleeer]] ([[User talk:Kleeer|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Kleeer|contribs]]) has made [[Wikipedia:Single-purpose account|few or no other edits]] outside this topic. </small> |
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:*'''Comment''' – Being a potential leader in one's field is not in the criteria for [[WP:BIO|notability]]. Neither is being recognized as being a potential leader by one's government. Unfortunately, "real-world" notability differs from Wikipedia [[WP:BIO|notability]]. As far as other fashion designers in Wikipedia please see [[WP:WAX]]. [[User:Ttonyb1|<span style="font-weight:bold; color:blue; text-shadow:grey 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em; letter-spacing: 2px; padding: 1px 3px;"> <i>ttonyb</i></span>]] ([[User talk:Ttonyb1#top|talk]]) 02:03, 7 August 2010 (UTC) |
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::::'''Comment''' - Fashion designers are not typically covered by secondary sources: see [[WP:CREATIVE]]. The first given guideline for notability in fields such as this is ''"The person is regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by their peers or successors",'' and she plainly has enough attention from fashion circles. [[User:SteveStrummer|SteveStrummer]] ([[User talk:SteveStrummer|talk]]) 01:56, 7 August 2010 (UTC) |
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.'' <!--Template:Afd bottom--></div> |