Talk:The Avengers (2012 film)

"The Avengers (2011)" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect The Avengers (2011) has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 January 30 § The Avengers (2011) until a consensus is reached. Gonnym (talk) 12:15, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

"killing" vs. "mortally wounding"

"Loki escapes after killing Coulson." Coulson is still alive after Loki escapes, however. I therefore changed "killing" to "mortally wounding", confident that I had made a worthy if minor correction. The edit was nonetheless reverted, with the edit summary "he is still killed by Loki". I restored the edit, saying "Yes, but not before Loki escapes. It could imaginably be something like 'dealing a death blow to', but 'mortally wounding' is correct and more so than 'killing'. That the death occurred is immediately confirmed in the sentence following [thus rendering it unnecessary to mention Coulson's death as having occurred before it actually did]." The editor who had reverted my change was letting this stand, but someone else changed it back to "killing" and said I "need to discuss this on the talk page and establish consensus for this wording before it can stand in this article." I asked at the Teahouse if this was actually necessary and I learned that it was, unless I elected one of the other acceptable WP:BRD options. I would prefer to discuss this with the editor involved, but there are two of them and so I'm posting on the talk page as advised. Can we agree that Loki, before escaping, mortally wounds rather than kills Coulson, if Coulson is still alive when Loki escapes? Bret Sterling (talk) 01:47, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Pinging @Adamstom.97 as a courtesy. While the reverts were justified, you should not have restored your preferred version once it was known to be contested in the first place (as per WP:BRD), and likely should have come here sooner. Focusing on the content, plot summaries typically tend to be WP:CONCISE and provide readers with the most direct information in the least amount of words possible to convey what happened in the media, rather than getting hung up over these minute details and verbiage changes. Ultimately, Loki attacks Coulson and he dies shortly after. The main point to get across in this plot summary (I emphasized this here as this is not a point-by-point breakdown of all events as it is meant to summarize the content), is that Coulson was killed by Loki. Given we see Coulson's death not too long after Loki escapes, I don't see much issue in retaining "'Loki escapes after killing Coulson" because that is ultimately what happens. I could, however, see something to the effect of Loki escapes after attacking and ultimately killing Coulson, though that carries on the info longer than is necessary here, and it is not technically helpful to state Coulson was "mortally wounded" if we are trying to convey that he actually succumbed to his wounds and died. In conclusion, I think the WP:STATUSQUO wording ought to remain as it gets the point across quickly and effectively without having the reader toy around the wording for the exact point. Trailblazer101 (talk) 03:13, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

My main concern is going directly from saying Coulson was mortally wounded to saying he is already dead, which is a jump for the reader. We do not have to break down each moment in the film exactly as it happens because this is a summary, and sometimes it makes sense to convey things differently through more concise text than is done in the film. While it is possible to read ""Loki escapes after killing Coulson" and say "that's not right, Coulson didn't die until after Loki escaped", I think it is also perfectly fine to interpret it as Loki's act of killing Coulson taking place before his escape. - adamstom97 (talk) 11:42, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, adamstom97, for clarifying your concern about the jump from "mortally wounded" to "already dead". To address this, I propose adding "subsequent" to the sentence following, making it: "Fury uses Coulson's subsequent death to motivate the Avengers to work together as a team." This should maintain the narrative flow without causing confusion. Although "mortally wounded" generally implies imminent death, this addition ensures clarity. Would this be an acceptable compromise? Bret Sterling (talk) 15:52, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

That works for me. - adamstom97 (talk) 16:54, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Great! Thank you. Bret Sterling (talk) 20:00, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Shawarma Post-Credits Scene

While the mid-credits scene (about the Other conversing with Thanos) is shown in the plot section, it doesn’t mention the post-credits scene where they all eat shawarma. I don’t know if it’s necessary or not. 2605:A601:A660:B700:9D7B:748:F33B:655D (talk) 10:43, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

just a joke, doesn't contribute to plot. Indagate (talk) 10:47, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Do you have a reliable source that says it's just a joke? Otherwise, that's OR. Verifiability is the standard, yes? danzig138 (talk) 07:41, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

We don't need a source to tell us which scenes in the film are jokes and which are not. - adamstom97 (talk) 08:47, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Zak Penn's comments on how Whedon treated him when he was hired as director

Do you think we should mention what Zak Penn had to say about how Whedon in the book MCU: The Reign of Marvel Studios about how Whedon treated him when he was hired as director? Whedon wasn't the first director Penn had in mind and his experience with him was not pleasant. [1] And1987 (talk) 19:13, 20 November 2024 (UTC)