Talk:Cruel Summer (GOOD Music album)

The tracklist has not been confirmed yet....

Despite HMV Japan and Tower Records Japan posting up tracklists, there is no official word from Def Jam nor Kanye West. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.125.254.230 (talk) 20:02, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

-The list is very obviously fake. Kanye played a song at a club recently called "Perfect Bitch" and said that it was on Cruel Summer, yet that song isn't listed. Furthermore, it has also been confirmed that Frank Ocean, Jay Electronica, and Mr Hudson will be on the album, and none of them are listed. Let's wait until we have an official confirmation before we add it to this page, people.

Track list confirmed by Amazon today. SrGangsta (talk) 15:58, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Clique

The new single "Clique" needs a page. Eleventhblock (talk) 20:24, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

I'll create it ASAP. SrGangsta (talk) 23:01, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

I haven't seen it was already created. Ok, it's all good there. SrGangsta (talk) 02:01, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Noah Goldstein IS NOT Noah "40" Shebib

I've made this change like five times but it keeps getting changed back. Drake's producer 40 IS NOT on Cruel Summer. Noah Goldstein may sound unfamiliar but he's been working with Kanye West for years. Noah "40" Shebib isn't even in the album credits. Please fix this mix-up. On page for "Clique" too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.2.129.87 (talk) 18:40, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 16:36, 26 September 2012 (UTC) (non-admin closure)

Cruel Summer (album) → Cruel Summer (GOOD Music album) – This article was originally at Cruel Summer (GOOD Music album) and it was blanked and then protected on August 31, [1], and on September 1, [2], was changed to finish the protection on September 11. In between the two edits above, the article was recreated at Cruel Summer (album), [3], to seemingly get around this page protection. There is also an article for Cruel Summer (Ace of Base album) and Cruel Summer (album) should redirect to Cruel Summer. Aspects (talk) 05:14, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

hmm, the page was blocked when I've created the page. The admins didn't unlock it, and I don't know why. But if you want, move the page cause I think it's better. -SrGangsta (talk) 10:07, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

• Support per standard disambiguation practice. --Rob Sinden (talk) 13:20, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
• Support if anything the Ace of Base album should be here, as it was back in May. -- 76.65.131.248 (talk) 02:05, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
• Support The Ace of Base-album was released first, so of course the GOOD Music-album should be moved to Cruel Summer (GOOD Music album).--z33k (talk) 20:04, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
• Support, but neither album article should occupy this page; no guideline suggests chronology has any bearing on this. Cruel Summer (album) should redirect to Cruel Summer. Dan56 (talk) 20:25, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

I reverted User: Chasewc91's move of this article to "Kanye West Presents...". Official title notwithstanding, the consensus here is for "Cruel Summer (GOOD Music album)", which is the commonly referred to (by nearly all sources) and most appropriate title (Wikipedia:Article titles#Precision) Dan56 (talk) 05:52, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

I didn't even look here so I wasn't aware of the discussion. My bad. –Chase (talk / contribs) 15:07, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Studio or compilation

Chasewc91's recent edit to the article changed the album type to compilation, which I think makes sense and added a citation for it just in case. But I looked at Metacritic's entry for the album and it calls it a "studio compilation album". Which is right? Dan56 (talk) 06:06, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

I honestly don't feel like digging for sources at this moment but there are a lot out there that call it a compilation. As a various artists collection it will (or should, if my knowledge of the charts is correct) chart on the UK Compilations Chart instead of the UK Albums Chart as Young Money's similar 2009 release did. –Chase (talk / contribs) 15:07, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Several sources including Pitchfork Media and Rolling Stone refer to it not as a Kanye West studio album, but as an album by "GOOD Music", including several that cite it as a compilation album. It's not a universally accepted fact but there are more than enough sources that justify listing it as a compilation record. I agree with this decision. Bruce Campbell (talk) 16:29, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Studio albums don't have to be from Kanye West himself. GOOD Music is capable of collectively releasing a studio album. A record constitutes a studio album if it (1) is of LP length, (2) has its own studio recording sessions. The tracks in Cruel Summer were recorded specifically for a GOOD Music collaborative studio album. You don't need resources to justify something trivial. It is a studio album by definition. I won't be the one to make the edit, though, because you can bet some stubborn person will just switch it right back and quote some article again. JohnStartop (talk) 11:14, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

To the World - Teyana Taylor

on iTunes, Teyana Taylor is part of To the World... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.128.187.120 (talk) 19:27, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

The Morning featured Kanye West

Kanye West performs the last few verses on The Morning (or sampled from "New God Flow"), so he definitely should get a mention in the title (I've listened to the compilation since it was leaked). Besides, XXL magazine states that Kanye is featured on eight of the twelve songs. therewillbehotcake (talk) 03:25, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Can we have the album cover without the explicit logo on it

http://theversed.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/GOOD-Music-Cruel-Summer-Album.jpg

replace the cover with this pic. idk why the album covers on here have to have the parental advisory label on it f it's explicit, it looks ugly. it should have the original photo

Ok, I'mma do it. SrGangsta (talk) 16:33, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Differences between physical and digital versions

Someone should update that there are differences between the physical and digital versions of the album. For instance, John Legend's vocals are far more prominent on the iTunes version of "Sin City." On the physical edition, the portion that would be his vocals is a auto-tuned voice that sounds nothing like John Legend. There's also some mixing differences on "The One." The drums are not as loud on iTunes. "Sin City" has less bass on iTunes. I know this sounds like a very nitpicky thing, but these changes are there if you listen closely. It appears that the iTunes version underwent some revisions because of the physical edition leak. If anything, the John Legend vocals should be mentioned. It's the most glaring difference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.2.129.86 (talk) 14:17, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Do you have any sources for these changes? FM [ talk to me | show contributions ]  16:27, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Artist - Title

The original discussion was partly from the above here, where I brought up Metacritic's entry for the album as "studio compilation album" and wanted to establish a consensus to stop past reverting. Feeling that "studio compilation" would be challengeable either way, I used this NME article to cite "compilation", but that isnt very strong either, as it calls the album "Kanye West's", possibly informally, but that's debatable as well. Both Metacritic and Allmusic, which usually keep things formal as tertiary sources, have it as "Cruel Summer - Various Artists" or "G.O.O.D. Music: Cruel Summer - Various Artists". Def Jam has the album listed as part of Kanye West's discography, solely titled "Cruel Summer". Which would seem the most accurate? Dan56 (talk) 02:33, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Also, does it make a difference if in Switzerland and the UK, it charted on those countries' compilation charts rather than the main album charts? Dan56 (talk) 02:45, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Compilation album are usually made up of previously released songs, as well as a few new recordings. All of these songs are new. Most sources list the album as being by "Various Artists", so I think that's how that should go. G.O.O.D. Music: Cruel Summer also appears to be the actual name, although iTunes lists the album as Kanye West Presents Good Music Cruel Summer.  — Statυs (talk, contribs) 03:33, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

In addition, there's no consensus for the page title or what the album actually is.  — Statυs (talk, contribs) 03:36, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

I often regard Allmusic as the most reliable source for album titles. With other sources, the title can often be shortened, as can see here. But album titles do not use common names, but their official names. That's our problem here. There's sources out there calling the album many different things.  — Statυs (talk, contribs) 03:40, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

That most compilation album happen to be culled from previous sources/releases may just be a trend rather than whatever the definition is. Other than the Wikipedia article, the only source I could find for a definition was this book about iTunes/iPods saying that it's an album with a variety of artists/performers, fitting the "various artists" billing. The original page move was discussed at some length here, and I asked for further comments about the album type here a while ago. Since there were only three comments, I thought more should comment here, so I've asked several other editors as well. Dan56 (talk) 03:39, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

• My opinion from sources complied. G.O.O.D. Music Cruel Summer by Various artists.  — Statυs (talk, contribs) 03:46, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

• Kanye's site calls the album "GOOD MUSIC CRUEL SUMMER".  — Statυs (talk, contribs) 03:51, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

• The most frequently used title in reliable sources, from what I can tell, seems to be Cruel Summer. Not sure about the artist billing. Perhaps "Kanye West and various artists" is best, considering West is featured on more than 60% of the album and the "official" title is Kanye West Presents.... –Chase (talk / contribs) 03:09, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

sales

Regarding the sales data from Nielson Soundscan, are these sales from the US alone or from the US and Canada? This ought to be clarified in the article. FM [ talk to me | show contributions ]  18:18, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Merge

The Morning (song) and The One (GOOD Music song), are these notable? In ictu oculi (talk) 09:41, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

• Nope, support merge. My rationale here. -- Flooded w/them 100s 08:13, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

@Flooded with them hundreds: yes that's more or less what I thought. Not sure why I wasn't pinged. Let's move the discussion here so everyone can see it: In ictu oculi (talk) 08:51, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

In ictu oculi, I assumed you were watching this page. -- Flooded w/them 100s 08:54, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Moved from my Talk page

I had seen months ago that you nominated The Morning (song) and The One (GOOD Music song) for merge into the album page but didn't bother leaving a message on your talk page unto they've been left merely nominated for so long. I'd like to ask why did you nominate these articles? They both charted and contain reliable sources. --Kyle Peake (talk) 07:54, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Kyle Peake, WP:NSONGS states that "songs are probably notable if they have been the subject[1] of multiple,[2] non-trivial[3] published works whose sources are independent of the artist and label." The sources in this article are not about the songs but their album, thus failing the notability guideline. Having ranked on national music charts is an indicator of "search for coverage in reliable independent sources will be successful". However, in this case - The One (GOOD Music song) for example, there does not appear to be sufficient reliable sources to establish notability and the charts are minor and component, hence inadequate to keep the article. (talk page stalker) -- Flooded w/them 100s 08:11, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Why have you not mentioned The Morning (song) in your response, is it because that has an independently released remix and is notable? Also, The One (GOOD Music song) includes the independent source of Kim's tweet about the song lyric as well as charts and that says probably notable, which means the exact criteria doesn't have to be followed and there's many songs on Wiki that aren't subject of multiple independent sources that have still got pages without any merge suggestions. Plus it charted on two charts so it's not really offending anyone. It is worth looking at Talk:The Morning (song) actually. --Kyle Peake (talk) 08:33, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

They're both similarly non-notable. The charts ("Bubbling Under Hot 100 Singles", "Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs") are not acceptable as national charts per WP:BILLBOARDCHARTS, they're just unimportant component charts. The national chart for the US is the Billboard Hot 100, on which these songs have not appeared. Kim Kardashian's tweet about the song is not an independent source, she clearly has a conflict of interest with one of the artists. Also the fact that other stuff exists is not a valid reason to not delete an article. For a song to pass the notability criteria, it has to have multiple reliable sources that discuss the song significantly. The sources should be articles from publications such as Billboard (magazine), New York Times, HotNewHipHop, etc. -- Flooded w/them 100s 08:52, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

• Comment I asked the question and have seen two answers above. The Tweet I don't know about but it looks like something that belongs in an album article. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:51, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

@Flooded with them hundreds: helpful thank you. I have seen several of these "Bubbling Under" stubs and rarely seen any notability in any of them. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:03, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Oppose merge - The Morning (song) has reliable sources from Genius (website) (which isn't unreliable since it isn't Genius annotators explaining the lyrics), HotNewHipHop and Billboard (magazine), recently added and it's not linked to charts. Isn't this notable since a remix was actually released by 2 Chainz outside of his appearance on the original? As for The One (GOOD Music song), I have just added in a 100% independent source and it is true that Kim doesn't mark an independent source, but it is still notable that she tweeted out the lyrics and the critical reception section gives reviews of the song that wouldn't fit well if merged. --Kyle Peake (talk) 11:19, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Suport merge as it doesn't make a song notable for its own article charting. Not a remix doesn't make a song notable nor a source of hot newhiphop and billboard is an album review. These go for both articles. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 11:44, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

Merger proposal

I propose to merge To the World into Cruel Summer (GOOD Music album). I think that the content in the "To the World" article can easily be explained in the context of Cruel Summer (GOOD Music album), and the album article is of a reasonable size that the merging of "To the World" will not cause any problems as far as article size is concerned. Regarding the Controversy the song created, nontheless popcrush is not a reliable source. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 12:49, 4 October 2019 (UTC)