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This man sexually abused a child. State it as such.

Which one of you creep pedo sympathizers wrote that the relationship between a 23-year-old and a 13-year-old "up for debate" because of #MeToo? Pretty sure this is not debatable. I fixed the wording but someone changed it back. 2601:240:8400:2880:3005:AD94:D60:624B (talk) 18:15, 26 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

it wasnt a scandal back then, as f*cked up as it may today seem --FMSky (talk) 18:29, 26 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"A relationship" with a 13 year-old is not a thing.

Under the heading "Personal life" the second paragraph begins with this sentence: "At age 23, Pop had a relationship with 13-year-old Sable Starr." There is no such thing as "a relationship with a 13-year-old." It's called "rape". In this case, it seems to have been repeated rapes over the course of some time.
It is now standard practice in the US criminal justice system, as well as among journalists to, for example, no longer call children who are being prostituted or sexually trafficked as "child prostitutes", since -- as that article explains, "'The term itself implies the idea of choice, when in fact that is not the case'...the terms 'child prostitution' and 'child prostitute' carry problematic connotations because children are generally not expected to be able to make informed decisions about prostitution. As an alternative, they use the terms prostituted children and the commercial sexual exploitation of children" (emphasis added). Likewise, a 13 year-old is not expected to be able to make informed decisions about "relationships". In the eyes of the law, this was not "a relationship"; it was the rape of someone who was three to five years below the age of consent in any state in the US. This section should be rephrased to reflect this fact. Bricology (talk) 10:46, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Bricology, I share your concern about the word "relationship" being used in this context. The problem is that the cited sources call it a relationship. (Another source that goes into more depth about the situation is here). So I'm not sure what to do about it. MonMothma (talk) 04:48, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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-Has anyone actually read this article all the way through? It is in dire need of clean up and re-organization.
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+{{WikiProject Miami|importance=high}}
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+== This man sexually abused a child. State it as such. ==
-Seems to me the speech mentionned was actually from the CBC's "90 Minutes Live" program hosted by Peter Gzowski (original broadcast date March 11th 1977)
+Which one of you creep pedo sympathizers wrote that the relationship between a 23-year-old and a 13-year-old "up for debate" because of #MeToo? Pretty sure this is not debatable. I fixed the wording but someone changed it back. [[Special:Contributions/2601:240:8400:2880:3005:AD94:D60:624B|2601:240:8400:2880:3005:AD94:D60:624B]] ([[User talk:2601:240:8400:2880:3005:AD94:D60:624B|talk]]) 18:15, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
----
+:it wasnt a scandal back then, as f*cked up as it may today seem --[[User:FMSky|FMSky]] ([[User talk:FMSky|talk]]) 18:29, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
-E.g. neither "Lust for life" nor "The Passenger" were written specifically for the Trainspotting soundtrack but years before and in Lust's case not even by Iggy himself... --[[User:Ft. Jack Hackett|Ft. Jack Hackett]] 18:32, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
+== "A relationship" with a 13 year-old is not a thing. ==
-The previous version of the article transribed the interview with Iggy saying "I don't know if Johnny rots". After listening to this interview twice I am convinced that this is wrong... Iggy clearly pronounces 'Rotten' and not rots...
+Under the heading "Personal life" the second paragraph begins with this sentence: "<i>At age 23, Pop had a relationship with 13-year-old Sable Starr.</i>" There is no such thing as "a relationship with a 13-year-old." It's called "rape". In this case, it seems to have been <u>repeated</u> rapes over the course of some time.<br>It is now standard practice in the US criminal justice system, as well as among journalists to, for example, no longer call children who are being prostituted or sexually trafficked as "[[child prostitution|child prostitutes]]", since -- as that article explains, "<i>'The term itself implies the idea of choice, when in fact that is not the case'...the terms 'child prostitution' and 'child prostitute' carry problematic connotations <b>because children are generally not expected to be able to make informed decisions about prostitution</b>. As an alternative, they use the terms prostituted children and the commercial sexual exploitation of children"</i> (emphasis added). Likewise, a 13 year-old is not expected to be able to make informed decisions about "relationships". In the eyes of the law, this was not "a relationship"; it was the rape of someone who was three to five years below the age of consent in any state in the US. This section should be rephrased to reflect this fact. [[User:Bricology|Bricology]] ([[User talk:Bricology|talk]]) 10:46, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
-____________________
+:[[User:Bricology|Bricology]], I share your concern about the word "relationship" being used in this context. The problem is that the cited sources call it a relationship. (Another source that goes into more depth about the situation is [https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/music/11-rock-stars-allegedly-slept-with-underage-girls-bowie-elvis-jagger-page-7980930 here]). So I'm not sure what to do about it. [[User:MonMothma|MonMothma]] ([[User talk:MonMothma|talk]]) 04:48, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
-The article says: "In 2003, having enjoyed working with Ron and Scott Asheton on Skull Ring, Iggy reformed the Stooges with bassist Mike Watt (formerly of Social Distortion) . . ."
-Isn't Mike Watt a founding member (and former member) of the Minutemen (as well as a solo artist), but not a former member of Social Distortion?
-A quick glance at the Wikipedia Social Distortion article doesn't mention Mr Watt as a member of that orchestra. Also, I listened to lots of Minutemen songs, and the notes say the bass player was Mike Watt.
-But hey I've been wrong before . . .
-cheers, and may God bless you,Iggy Pop, and all the fans.
-_________________
-The Social Distortion thing was an egregious mistake that I corrected.  How dare someone even say someone as amazingly talented as Watt be part of that whitebread "punk" band.
-Also, I deleted the small entry of Skull Ring as an album with "Various Artists" since it stated that it was also a solo album and also listed it as a solo album.  Seemed really redundant and unecessary.
-:Dude get off yourself. Don't touch any more articles relating to music. God.
-he didn't adampt his name to iggy stooge
-that's what Danny Fields put on the first album
-iggy didn't want to be called that
-== RCA Test Presiing Info wanted ==
-Hi there! Can anyone help me? I have an original RCA test pressing LP with the Catalogue Number PL 12275. It has IGGY POP scribed on the 'run-off' area of the record (both sides). I would like to know if the title the album was released under or if it was released at all. Thanx. Steve B. Please feel free to e-mail s.w.bennett@btinternet.com.
-== Jewish? ==
-Hi there,
-Is Iggy Pop Jewish?
-The [[:he:איגי פופ|article about him in the Hebrew Wikipedia]] says that he's Jewish, which seemed rather dubious to me, so i googled it and there's only one place that affirms it and it's [[Jew Watch]] which is not very trustworthy.
-Any help?--[[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] 13:03, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
-----
-"Although Pop had nothing to do with the movie, Ewan McGregor's sexually ambiguous, drug-fuelled character in Velvet Goldmine is considered by most critics to be modelled on him"
-I think that needs to be removed, since the vast majority of critics claim that the character is based on David Bowie (which seems even more obvious since Velvet Goldmine is the title of a Ziggy-era Bowie song).