Jump to content

User talk:Srich32977: Difference between revisions

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Browse history interactively
← Previous edit
Content deleted Content added
VisualWikitext
m Archiving 1 discussion(s) to User talk:Srich32977/Archive 29) (bot
 
Line 1: Line 1:
<!-- {{wikibreak}}{{Semi-wikibreak2}} -->

{{Talk header}}
{{Talk header}}
{{User:MiszaBot/config
{{User:MiszaBot/config
|archiveheader = {{talk archive navigation}}
|archiveheader = {{talk archive navigation}}
|maxarchivesize = 70K
|maxarchivesize = 70K
|counter = 4
|counter = 29
|minthreadsleft = 4
|minthreadsleft = 4
|minthreadstoarchive = 1
|minthreadstoarchive = 1
Line 12: Line 12:
{{NOINDEX|visible = no}}
{{NOINDEX|visible = no}}
{{Usertalkback|you=watched|me=watched|small=no|runon=no|icon=info}}
{{Usertalkback|you=watched|me=watched|small=no|runon=no|icon=info}}
<!-- {{user frustrated}} -->
<!--{{user frustrated|orange=yes}}-->
{{TOC limit|2}}


== Citation cleanup ==
<!--spacing-->


Hey, just making sure you're aware that per [[WP:RANGE]] we do not abbreviate numerical ranges for pages or dates. Please make sure you're familiar with the MOS when making style changes across a large number of articles. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">[[User:Remsense|<span style="color:#fff">'''Remsense'''</span>]]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>[[User talk:Remsense|<span lang="zh" style="color:#fff">'''论'''</span>]]</span> 23:08, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
== Jack Swanstrom ==


:Hello: [[WP:RANGE]] does not address page ranges or dates. Rather, [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Citing_sources&action=edit&section=37] says we should follow a consistent style. (E.g., cites should be consistent in the page ranges presented. That is what I did. Accordingly, please roll back (or revise) your reverts to the various articles. Thanks. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 01:29, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
I just happened upon the following edit you made to [[Jack Swanstrom]]:
::You are incorrect, but I should've checked I was linking [[MOS:RANGE]], cf. [[MOS:DATERANGE]]. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">[[User:Remsense|<span style="color:#fff">'''Remsense'''</span>]]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>[[User talk:Remsense|<span lang="zh" style="color:#fff">'''论'''</span>]]</span> 01:31, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
:::O.Kay. So who's more correct in these edits? I think mine comply with DATERANGE. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 01:43, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Any abbreviation of a range of dates or pages is incorrect. Always write it out instead. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">[[User:Remsense|<span style="color:#fff">'''Remsense'''</span>]]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>[[User talk:Remsense|<span lang="zh" style="color:#fff">'''论'''</span>]]</span> 01:44, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::No. Chicago Manual of Style says "123–24" is acceptable. And WP accepts CMS as a citation style. See https://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/tools_citationguide.html – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 01:57, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::The Wikipedia Manual of Style says it's not, except in quotations. Why would we have these guidelines apply everywhere except in citations due to what a <em>different style guide</em> permits? You are misunderstanding what [[WP:CITESTYLE]] means in practice; it is not license to ignore what other guidelines like the MOS explicitly require. Maybe WP:CITESTYLE could use a sentence of clarification on this point, but clearly the idea is "different citation styles are acceptable", not "we must allow anything <em>another style guide</em> allows if it's hidden in a citation".<span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">[[User:Remsense|<span style="color:#fff">'''Remsense'''</span>]]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>[[User talk:Remsense|<span lang="zh" style="color:#fff">'''论'''</span>]]</span> 02:02, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::::If you don't believe me—I find it pretty unambiguous and have little idea of how to make it clearer for you—please consider asking on [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style]] or somewhere else for verification or clarification before re-adding MOS violations. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">[[User:Remsense|<span style="color:#fff">'''Remsense'''</span>]]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>[[User talk:Remsense|<span lang="zh" style="color:#fff">'''论'''</span>]]</span> 02:57, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
{{U|Srich32977}}, you have been [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?fulltext=Search+archives&fulltext=Search&prefix=User+talk%3ASrich32977%2F&search=ranges&ns0=1&ns4=1&ns10=1&ns12=1&searchToken=bi38zzbjqr04kfmxfbhn3fbbp told many times in the past] that abbreviating numbers in ranges here on the English Wikipedia is incorrect. You and I have had multiple discussions on your talk page about this issue. Maybe your memory has failed you; I know mine sometimes does. Please stop [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Battle_of_Ishibashiyama&diff=prev&oldid=1246968960 abbreviating page ranges]. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 20:50, 22 September 2024 (UTC)


:Alright, I shall comply with [[MOS:PAGERANGE]]. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 21:34, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
cur | prev) 17:01, 16 August 2010 Srich32977 (talk | contribs) (1,112 bytes) (del cats as article does not discuss; IMDB may have this info, but there is no verification) (undo)
::@[[User:Srich32977|Srich32977]] was [[Special:Diff/1249754172|this edit]] a mistake in this way? If so, I apologize: just double-checking since I thought we had come to an understanding. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">[[User:Remsense|<span style="color:#fff">'''Remsense'''</span>]]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>[[User talk:Remsense|<span lang="zh" style="color:#fff">'''论'''</span>]]</span> 23:10, 6 October 2024 (UTC)
:::...and [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Greek_alphabet&diff=prev&oldid=1249799934 this]. My finger is on the [[WP:DE]]-block button, Srich32977. Tell me why I should not press it. [[User:DMacks|DMacks]] ([[User talk:DMacks|talk]]) 23:21, 6 October 2024 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Srich32977|Srich32977]] I really do not want to continue on your case about this, but could you please explain whether it's a mistake or a misunderstanding? You do a lot and mistakes happen, but I keep seeing them. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">[[User:Remsense|<span style="color:#fff">'''Remsense'''</span>]]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>[[User talk:Remsense|<span lang="zh" style="color:#fff">'''论'''</span>]]</span> 18:03, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
:::::{{U|DMacks}}, whenever you are ready: [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Taiwanese_indigenous_peoples&diff=prev&oldid=1258977057 invalid page range changes]; [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Arab_Socialist_Ba%27ath_Party_%E2%80%93_Syria_Region&diff=prev&oldid=1258878960 invalid changes to location and page/pages/volume parameter values]; [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Agrarianism&diff=prev&oldid=1258873320 invalid page range change]. I found these in the editor's most recent 25 edits in article space. There are plenty of valid improvements, but the rate of invalid changes is too high, and the editor does not appear to be responding to requests to be more careful and adhere to MOS. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 19:12, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
::::::{{ping|Jonesey95}} of those three examples, the first one is definitely a violation that [[User:Remsense]] kindly fixed. The second one looks like a self-revert as part of a series of closely-spaced edits; is there a problem in the [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Arab_Socialist_Ba%27ath_Party_%E2%80%93_Syria_Region&diff=1258879861&oldid=1255494459 net effect] a problem? I'm confused by the third one...I see changes to lots of number-ranges (in refs and in body) but I cannot figure out what actually changed. Is it the type of dash character? I does not appear to be the removal of leading high-place digits. [[User:DMacks|DMacks]] ([[User talk:DMacks|talk]]) 11:58, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
:::::::It looks like I didn't see the end result of the second edit; the overall diff for the seven edits to that article appears to be fine (although [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Arab_Socialist_Ba%27ath_Party_%E2%80%93_Syria_Region&diff=1259325560&oldid=1258879861 the citations needed a lot more cleanup]). The third edit resulted in errors such as "|access-date= 3 April 2020] a social or political movement..." (removing "quote=") and changing the valid "pp 77-78" to the nonsensical "pp. 77-I–78" (and missing "1901 – 1939" in the same citation, but making improvements and missing a few would be no sin). So two out of 25 then. And the ones in the section below. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 14:52, 24 November 2024 (UTC)


== October thanks ==
I've restored the removed categories and refer you to:
{{User QAIbox

| image = Dahlias, Elisengarten, Aachen.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:BSM_full.JPG
| image_upright = 0.8

| bold = [[User:Gerda Arendt/Top|story]] · [[User talk:Gerda Arendt#Music|music]] · [[User:Gerda Arendt/Places and songs 2024#22 Oct|places]]
I can respect a desire for some type of official authentication/verification of veterans awards -- but you should be aware that these records are seldom available to the general public. And let's face it, if someone said to a newspaper reporter that they had an Bronze Star and it was printed -- well, does that make it verifiably so? Does every newspaper reporter verify the military records of every interviewee?
}}

Thank you for improving articles on October! - My [[User:Gerda Arendt/Stories#20 Oct|story today]] is a cantata 300 years old, based on a hymn 200 years old when the cantata was composed, based on a psalm some thousand years old, - so said the 2015 DYK hook. I had forgotten the discussion on the talk. -- [[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 16:19, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
== Notes to self ==

<!--When changing the percentages due to new census figures, follow rounded demographic numbers guidelines IAW [[WP:WikiProject Cities/US Guideline#Demographics]]; e.g., provide x.x% figures as does the US Census Bureau. x.xx% figures produce [[WP:False precision]].-->--[[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]]

== Pass rate analysis -- saved here as a MFR ==

<!--Adding the repeaters to the pass rate, but that is, I'm afraid, a WP:CHERRY analysis. The State Bar stats do not tell us that 1200 different grads from Law School X took the bar during 2003-2010 time frame. They tell us the exam was taken 1200 times by an unknown number of people. That is, there could be any number of repeaters from the years prior to 2003 who came on in to successfully or unsuccessfully take the bar. Since we do not have WP:V as to those people, the only clean way to report a pass rate is with the numbers for the first timers. Adding in the repeaters who eventually successfully take the bar might increase the pass rate from the 31%, but we cannot parse out those multiple repeaters. Saying there is a 28.5% pass rate including the repeaters is not an accurate way to measure the pass rate.

:[Other editor] I disagree. If the statistic had no discernible value, as in, reporting the number of repeaters is of absolutely no use to the average reader, then why would the California bar spend such time and effort reporting that value? Clearly, it shows that those who have to take the bar more than once have a much lower chance of passing. Therefore, I will revert the changes, and also include the bar pass rate of repeaters only. Inferences and speculation on the meaning of those values can be left to the reader, without any opinion by the editor. Since it is publicly available data that the California bar considers worthwhile, it should be included. Picking and choosing which of the statistics the California bar provides is worthwhile is itself an editorial opinion.

If you want to go through the numbers and count up the number of repeat takers and successful repeat takers, please do so. As Law School X was established in 1998, and assuming they complete a four year program, then 2003 is a reasonable beginning point for the count. However, combining the repeaters and first timers in an attempt to give an overall or combined pass rate would be improper. For example, State Bar reports that 15 of 67 repeat takers passed the February 2011 exam (for a 22% pass rate). The Committee of Bar Examiners does not tell us how many times the 67 repeaters had taken the exam in the past -- only that they were repeaters.

To illustrate how percentage pass rates for repeaters is subject to skewing, consider two scenarios. Each scenario requires a pool of takers who have failed the bar in the past -- it could be 30, 40 or whatever number. For sake of discussion, consider that we have 5 different test dates (A, B, C, D, & E) and we have 4 repeat takers coming in for testing on each particular test date. (The statistics would show a total of 20 takers for the 5 days.) To start both scenarios, 4 repeaters come in from the pool on test date A. 1 of the 4 passes. At this point the two scenarios vary. In the first scenario, the 3 failing repeaters from date A go on to try again on test date B and 1 comes from the pool on date B. Of the 4 takers on date B, 2 pass. On the next date -- C -- the 2 failed repeaters from B come in and 2 new repeaters from the pool come in. Zero pass on date C. On date D, these 4 repeaters from date C come in and test. All 4 pass! On the last date -- E -- 4 new repeaters come in from the pool to test and 3 pass. Total test takers for this first scenario = 11 and total passers = 10. A pretty good percentage (91%) is the result.

But in the second scenario assume that none of the failed repeaters from dates A, B, C, or D ever goes on to try again on a subsequent date. That is, each of the 5 test dates is filled by 4 new repeat takers from the original pool for a total of 20 takers and 20 tests. Now compare the two scenarios: assume the pass rate for each of the 5 dates is the same, e.g., 1/4 (A), 2/4 (B), 0/4 (C), 4/4 (D), and 3/4 (E). Total people who passed = 10, but the pass rate is only 50% because 4 new people came in from the original pool on each of the 5 test dates for a total of 20 takers. (In other words, the second scenario provides that only one subsequent re-testing is done for the failed first time takers.)

The difference between the two scenarios is significant and, more importantly, difficult to describe. If we present the number of repeat takers (based on state bar stats), are we tacitly describing a "first scenario" or "second scenario" percentage? We just don't know because the state bar is not providing those numbers. Either way, giving a raw number of repeaters and then calculating a "pass rate" is an improper way to convey information to the readers. The only reliable statistic is to provide a pass rate for first time takers because that number is clear and is based on a reliable source.-->

== Your input is appreciated ==

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Austrian_School#addendum [[User:Byelf2007|Byelf2007]] ([[User talk:Byelf2007|talk]]) 11 October 2011

== Disruptive editing - Rich, Rubin and SPECIFICO ==

Hello. There is currently a discussion at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents]] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. <!--Template:ANI-notice--> Thank you.<small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Xerographica|Xerographica]] ([[User talk:Xerographica|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Xerographica|contribs]]) 15:16, January 29, 2013‎</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

== Nomination of [[The Daily Currant]] for deletion ==

<div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">[[File:Ambox warning orange.svg|48px|alt=|link=]]</div>A discussion is taking place as to whether the article '''[[The Daily Currant]]''' is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to [[Wikipedia:List of policies and guidelines|Wikipedia's policies and guidelines]] or whether it should be [[Wikipedia:Deletion policy|deleted]].

The article will be discussed at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Daily Currant ]] until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.<!-- Template:afd-notice -->

== Nikpapag comment ==

Oh sorry Srich {{unsigned|Nikpapag|04:24, May 2, 2013}}

== Note on Murphy page ==

I do not want to get into an EW. But your reasoning for changing my title on your previous post ("predictions cannot be "false" or "true") was just flatly false. Predictions can be true or false: when Dick Morris predicted Romney would be elected last year, that was a "false prediction"; describing it as merely a "prediction regarding election 2012" would be descriptively inadequate. Look at the dictionary or google this. The term "false prediction" can and is used in a NPOV fashion if the prediction was indeed unambiguously false (as Murphy's 10% CPI prediction was); I don't know of anyone who disputes this. Because your rationale was obviously false, I reverted the change. If you have another rationale for changing the title, please discuss it on the talk page. [[User:Steeletrap|Steeletrap]] ([[User talk:Steeletrap|talk]]) 20:32, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
:My response is on the Murphy talk page. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 23:20, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

== Moral Hazard ==

Perhaps you can explain how the French Bank and Yonhap news agency are not neutral sources of economic information, at least in comparison to almost all of the other economic THEORY on this page - some of it is more like theoretical economic OPINION. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Magickallwiz|Magickallwiz]] ([[User talk:Magickallwiz|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Magickallwiz|contribs]]) 20:39, 3 May 2013 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Deletion of cookies ==

I really appreciate the gesture! I deleted the thread with the cookies because of a glib joke you made about an issue which (though I'm sure you didn't know this) am remarkably sensitive about. I am certain you didn't intend to offend! [[User:Steeletrap|Steeletrap]] ([[User talk:Steeletrap|talk]]) 03:00, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
:I'm sorry. Here's a listing of veggie related userboxes. Post one on your userpage -- it'll signal others as to topics you are interested in (or sensitive about). [[WP:Userboxes/Food]]. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 04:02, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
:: Please don't apologize! You could not have known, and it is certainly not a salient moral issue in the eyes of most people. An encyclopedia, of course, is not an idea place for moralizing; we have to try to be value-free in our edits to the best of our ability. I just wanted to let you know. :) [[User:Steeletrap|Steeletrap]] ([[User talk:Steeletrap|talk]]) 04:08, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

== On your threats to block me/false accusations of PA ==

Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Baseless_allegations_of_PA.2Fthreats_to_block_from_user_S.Rich [[User:Steeletrap|Steeletrap]] ([[User talk:Steeletrap|talk]]) 22:19, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
:Hey, Srich, I guess we'll see who gets there first with which diffs making our points and then the second one can delete any unnecessary overlap. ''[[User:Carolmooredc|CarolMooreDC]]''<big>&#x1f5fd;</big> 22:33, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
::I got a plugged up garbage disposal to fix. (Shall I send pictures for [[WP:V]]?) So it won't be till tomorrow. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 00:19, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
:::Ho Ho Ho. Don't worry about it. I still don't feel like reading all his edits and doing a blow by blow analysis so I gave a pretty general reply. Let's hope he reforms. Yeah, I'm trying to decide tomorrow between mowing the lawn and plugging in that big doggie-dug hole with some left over old clay. Also made a nice copy of his talk page for time stamps in case I need to find the relevant diffs. ''[[User:Carolmooredc|CarolMooreDC]]''<big>&#x1f5fd;</big> 00:28, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

== Cadet editing ==

Hi Srich32977, I noticed you just edited the page of Cadet. For your information and with all due respect, the section I just edited is about the Cadet training in the Philippines, specifically those for high school and college students. I am a current COCC officer in an academy in the Philippines and I do know how such activities work. If I'm not mistaken, you lived at the United States, your cadet performance may have little differences to those in the Philippines. So, with all due respect, I'm more knowledgeable than you think, especially that you are dealing with someone who just simply adding general information in his motherland. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/121.54.32.105|121.54.32.105]] ([[User talk:121.54.32.105|talk]]) 06:29, 5 May 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Thanks for your message. It is true that I'm in the US. But who is where is not the issue. Wikipedia needs and requires [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] for its information. That means items published in books, magazines, newspapers, academic journals, etc. Please take a look at the [[WP:5P]]s and learn more about the project. I think you will find it interesting and helpful. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 06:34, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

== Thank you Srich32977 ==

Dear Srich32977,
Thank you for removing the links I posted on the Pi page. I read the COI article and it's quite obvious that there is an apparent COI in what I posted. I really do believe that the student activities I posted are beneficial to students and teachers but a lot of the page to which the link was directed was promotional. I have placed new links to the student activities as direct links to the Microsoft Word documents. There is no advertising and no promotion involved. The school where I teach and the side business I have are not mentioned or referred to in any way. These free resources might be very useful to people interested in learning more about calculating Pi using polygons. However, if placing these kinds of resources on Wikipedia still contravenes its guidelines I will remove them (if you don't remove them first).
Thank you again,
Spiro Liacos

PS. I must admit, I don't really know the best way of communicating to other users of Wikipedia. I simply clicked on the link to "leave me a message on my talk page". <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Spiro Liacos|Spiro Liacos]] ([[User talk:Spiro Liacos|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Spiro Liacos|contribs]]) 09:33, 5 May 2013 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:You are quite welcome, Spiro. While your links might be useful, the COI rules are there. Also, you might look at [[WP:SELFCITE]]. Now if someone else were to post the links, they might work. Even so, we want to avoid creating a [[WP:LINKFARM]]. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 15:25, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

== Fringe science thing ==

As you can expect, I don't agree with what you're saying, but I appreciate your last posts to the thread and your attempt to get on topic. The problem is that my original prompt has been flooded with all of this text, much of it related to off-topic allegations relating to my personal conduct from another user; as you know, this sort of thing tends to crowd out responses (and we have only had two, both of which expressed support for some aspect of what I was arguing for). I propose that I 1) repost my original concerns to another forum and 2) You express your argument against my proposed changes and then 3) we let other editors hash it out for awhile before responding. What say you? [[User:Steeletrap|Steeletrap]] ([[User talk:Steeletrap|talk]]) 16:30, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

:I've responded at [[User talk:SPECIFICO]]. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 17:02, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

:: I've created a new discussion. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view/Noticeboard#Concerns_on_WP:Undue_regarding_AIDS_Denial_and_LewRockwell.com You are encouraged to comment, but I ask that you keep them concise and limited so as to not recreate the flood of text that derailed the last thread (I know I was bad in both of those respects!) [[User:Steeletrap|Steeletrap]] ([[User talk:Steeletrap|talk]]) 20:08, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

== A beer for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Export hell seidel steiner.png|70px]]
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Why not get a little wiki-tipsy!? [[User:Steeletrap|Steeletrap]] ([[User talk:Steeletrap|talk]]) 23:03, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
|}
: Thank you for deleting the ostrich comment. That obviously wasn't a personal attack (especially when speaking to an animal lover!) so it showed a particular desire not to inflame. You are making a good effort to move past last Saturday's heated arguments and I appreciate it. I soon plan on shifting my attention from LvMI related to other wiki subjects (I want to pick less contentious ones to save time (which I've wasted far too much of the last few weeks) and energy! And I think I've already made my mark for the better, in many of the ways that I wanted to.) But even if our interactions are more limited from now on, I want them to end on a positive note. [[User:Steeletrap|Steeletrap]] ([[User talk:Steeletrap|talk]]) 23:06, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

*You're welcome! You must've discovered I participate in the [[WP:Drinking game]].
** I had added ostrich under the mistaken impression that it gave some pertinent advice. While not on track in your case, it does contain advice in general that is worthwhile. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 23:12, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

== Austrian hat ==

Hi. I moved the hat up a notch as explained in my edit summary on talk:Austrian school. Cheers. [[User:SPECIFICO | '''SPECIFICO''']] [[User_talk:SPECIFICO | ''talk'']] 05:43, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

== Comments from IamSwitzerland ==

I am not a new user. I have been editing here for years and never dealt with such aggressive behavior as you are employing. I may have forgotten a few things but I appreciate you helping me to look like a complete loser. That is pretty awesome of you. I put two words on a page and you attack. You even took down edits to preexisiting issuese that were corrected. [[User:IamSwitzerland|IamSwitzerland]] ([[User talk:IamSwitzerland|talk]]) 07:17, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
: {{oldsmiley|17}} (Not much help was needed.) – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 14:18, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
:: Srich, I have to ask that you cease making personal attacks. Implying that "not much help was needed" to make user IamSwitzerland look like a loser is not an acceptable remark. [[User:Steeletrap|Steeletrap]] ([[User talk:Steeletrap|talk]]) 04:20, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
::: Uncivil, perhaps. IamSwitzerland exhibited incompetent editing and I left polite (template) messages about how to do a better job. The response about not being a "new user" and my "aggressive behavior" and my "attack" is just bullshit. Perhaps a simple [[Image:Misc-tpvgames.gif|20px]] would have been better. Stick up for Switzerland if you wish. I don't mind. But don't go about accusing me of PA on any pages other than this one. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 04:32, 16 May 2013 (UTC) PS: However, you or Switzerland certainly may post an ANI. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 04:57, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
:::: I am not personally familiar with Ms./Mister "Switzerland," nor do I know about her or his work on behalf of this encyclopedia. However, knowing from experience how deeply you care about calling out users who make "PA", I thought you should know that you clearly made one above. Unlike those of other users I have encountered, your PAs have not been consistently disruptive, nor material to substantive edits, so I am fine with not mentioning this on other threads. It is something to watch for the future, however. [[User:Steeletrap|Steeletrap]] ([[User talk:Steeletrap|talk]]) 19:27, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

== Cabazon Dinosaurs ==

Maybe you can make the Huell Howser video link a little more prominent so that visitors to the page will be likely to watch it. It is only 19 minutes long. [[User:Pechaney|pechaney]] ([[User talk:Pechaney|talk]]) 14:22, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
:Perhaps it can be moved up the list and the citation format changed. I'll take a look later today.-- – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 14:31, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

== Huell ==

You're fast! I was just about to revert my own edit after discovering that the <nowiki>{{FAG}}</nowiki> template led to Find-a-Grave. :) Not the best choice of template names... Anyhow, good looking out. [[User:Cyphoidbomb|Cyphoidbomb]] ([[User talk:Cyphoidbomb|talk]]) 19:12, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
:Thanks. Huell Howser has been a favorite of mine for years. Chapman University has an archive of his videos, which I've been incorporating into WP lately. Mainly his Palm Springs stuff. BTW, there has been some talk page controversy about whether he was gay. No RS supports the rumors. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 19:16, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
::I'm on board with the need for RS for something like that. And for establishing relevance for its inclusion. Typically the only time people feel the need to include sexuality in articles is when the person is not from the prevailing camp. We don't, for example, have an infobox field for sexuality. And Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson's article doesn't say "...and he is a heterosexual." [[User:Cyphoidbomb|Cyphoidbomb]] ([[User talk:Cyphoidbomb|talk]]) 19:24, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

== Hoppe ==

I'd have expected you to use talk if you disagree with my revert of the quote, not to reinsert. Please self-undo and use talk. Thanks. [[User:SPECIFICO | '''SPECIFICO''']] [[User_talk:SPECIFICO | ''talk'']] 04:50, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
:A discussion ''is'' underway on the talk page. My gosh, the important part of BRD is the '''D'''. We've both stated our concerns -- now's the time to wait and let other editors weigh in. The rationale for leaving that very short sentence there -- for now -- is set forth. (Remove it if you wish, I will not consider it as EW. But please do leave the lopsided tag so that it can attract other editors to comment.) – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 22:26, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
::Your reinsertion of the Reverted content was not BRD. It's not B-R-R-D. The important part is not only D but restraint from R-R. Thanks. [[User:SPECIFICO | '''SPECIFICO''']] [[User_talk:SPECIFICO | ''talk'']] 23:58, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
:::I said remove it if you wish. <s>So, just go and change the stinking page.</s> Why expend these precious bytes over such a small issue? – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 00:41, 20 May 2013 (UTC) Added comment -- strike out remark about changing the page. Why bring up this trivial issue when Steeletrap has already made the change? There was no edit warring going on, which 3R/2R seeks to discourage. Simply a disagreement, which is posted on the talk page. 00:58, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
::::Actually, the talk page thread only started after the EW was underway, right? Next time consider not undoing the revert? At least Steeletrap took the bull by the horns. Cheers. [[User:SPECIFICO | '''SPECIFICO''']] [[User_talk:SPECIFICO | ''talk'']] 01:20, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
:::::EW? I don't know what EW you are talking about! Double cheers back atcha - one for each revert. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 01:24, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
{{od}}When an article has a history of contention, if an editor reverts some text, you can expect that reinserting it prior to discussion is going to put further strain on the process. That was my prediction and that's what happened. Next time, consider talk first. [[User:SPECIFICO | '''SPECIFICO''']] [[User_talk:SPECIFICO | ''talk'']] 01:54, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

== Thanks ==

Regarding your restoration of my post at [[Talk:Fractional reserve banking]] (as opposed to the other editor restoring the post and apologizing at my request): thank you; I appreciate your effort to mediate. I didn't know what brought this on until I went back and read the interaction between me and the other editor on that talk page. The genesis may have been what seems to me to have been a relatively mild disagreement back in mid-March -- hardly what I would call a "hornet's nest" that should result in "bitterness." I didn't realize that he had taken our discussion so hard. Yours, [[User:Famspear|Famspear]] ([[User talk:Famspear|talk]]) 03:13, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

== Gaming the system ==

I told him to read the policies about, for prevention of attitudes against consensus, I was clear about this attitudes could come from no-comprehension of notability policies confused with "credentialism" (I'm not talking about bad faith, a person could sabotage consensus without the will of been evil). I put the comment not by BLP issue, but by economist/philosopher issue and editions. I could change the line if you told me a better way to say someone not to commit a fault about sabotage consensus. I'm from Spanish language Wikipedia, here there are variants in some policies that I'm not acquainted (little diferences, I guess). --[[User:Sageo|Sageo]] ([[User talk:Sageo|talk]]) 05:36, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

:I am [[:herding cats]] with different editors all admonishing (scolding) each other about BLP, PA, NPOV, etc. in these various libertarian article talk pages. Bringing up "gaming the system", which is an editor behavior issue, was not appropriate for the talk page. It was like another cat breaking out of harness. (Because it explicitly refers to bad faith.) If you like -- or will permit -- I'll remove that sentence. (And if you have personal advice about consensus, etc., post it on the editor's talk page. Doing so on these article talk pages only makes things worse.) – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 05:46, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

::If that is the recommended practice in this Wikipedia talk pages, I have no problem.--[[User:Sageo|Sageo]] ([[User talk:Sageo|talk]]) 05:55, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

== Hoppe section heading ==

Furry's entitled to revert the heading without getting undone. I think it would be best to let Furry's edit stand and go to talk, not to appear to OWN the article or be edit-warring deviations. I suggest you reinstate Furry's edit. [[User:SPECIFICO | '''SPECIFICO''']] [[User_talk:SPECIFICO | ''talk'']] 02:31, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
:Furry's edit was Bold. My edit was Revert. The next step was Discuss, not a re-reversion. But the first two edits are OBE. I opened a section on the discussion page and Sageo has re-re-reverted to the original (more recent) section heading. In any event, please see my rationale in the discussion section. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 05:05, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

== EW ANI ==

You appear to question Steeletrap for citing the "malicious" comment but you fail to mention that the cited word is only one of many personal attacks made by Sageo over the past week or so. Perhaps you might consider a more balanced statement or revision of your comment on the EW page? [[User:SPECIFICO | '''SPECIFICO''']] [[User_talk:SPECIFICO | ''talk'']] 17:11, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
:If you think Sageo has made PAs, then you or Steeletrap should post it. Steeletrap brought it up the "malicious" comment, and I provided a comment to put it in context -- which serves to balance out Steeletrap's comment. ''You'' brought up the section heading matter in the EW ANI, and I made commentary about it. If it was such a trivial matter, why did you bring it up? Seems you don't like it when the evidence is against you. Well, consider, 50% of the people in trials don't like the results when the judge or jury makes the final decision. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 17:46, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
::I raised the title because it is a revert and the EW complaint lists excessive reverts. You would be well advised to strike through the personal attack on me in your message above and to refrain from sarcasm in future talk page messages. You are among peers here. Thank you. [[User:SPECIFICO | '''SPECIFICO''']] [[User_talk:SPECIFICO | ''talk'']] 17:57, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
:::And now you accuse me of PA? And you accuse me of EW here [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AAdministrators%27_noticeboard%2FEdit_warring&diff=556297900&oldid=556297101]? Worst of all, you attack my integrity by accusing me of making false statements! – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 18:21, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
::::Well, one approach would have been, once you learned that you'd inadvertently undone Furry due to a false edit summary justification, one approach would be immediately to apologize, set the record straight, and self-undo your error. Then nobody could ever question your motives or evenhandedness (not that anybody has done that, just sayin' -- since it seems to concern you.) [[User:SPECIFICO | '''SPECIFICO''']] [[User_talk:SPECIFICO | ''talk'']] 18:34, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

== picknick99 ==

thanks for message. But I'm afraid I don't really understand it.[[User:Picknick99|Picknick99]] ([[User talk:Picknick99|talk]]) 18:31, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
:Well, you did this note correctly by putting it down here at the bottom. (The other one on Barrister was posted at the top of the talk page.) And the heading you added "No way Jose" really doesn't tell readers what the over all subject of your comment is about. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 18:44, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

== HOPPE -- AGF ==

You wrote "his discussion should not be a back-door or a run-around effort to get the homophobia material into the article."
:This appears to suggest that you believe other editors are not acting in good faith, and may be construed as an unwarranted personal statement, particularly on the article talk page. [[User:SPECIFICO | '''SPECIFICO''']] [[User_talk:SPECIFICO | ''talk'']] 20:17, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
::Ok, sorry for interrupting you (and this goes for Srich32977 and SPECIFICO), but I think you should both perhaps stop this, let's just call it teasing, and do whatever helps you relax. And no, it does not matter who is correct. [[User:Lectonar|Lectonar]] ([[User talk:Lectonar|talk]]) 20:25, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
::: ''I said'' "'''This''' discussion...." not "his discussion". I was ''not'' referring to any particular editor or editors. If an editor wants to skin the cat a different way, that's fine. But the academic freedom heading issue is not a good way to try. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 21:10, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
::::That's right, "this" -- cut and paste truncation error. My comment stands, and you have not responded to my concern. It seems likely readers will understand that you are making the statement because you are concerned that the particular editors who are advocating this wording are not acting in good faith. Otherwise, every thread would be prefaced with that remark. Please consider. Thanks. [[User:SPECIFICO | '''SPECIFICO''']] [[User_talk:SPECIFICO | ''talk'']] 21:58, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

== User talk:Steeletrap ==

[[Image:Ambox warning pn.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Please [[Wikipedia:No personal attacks|stop attacking]] other editors, as you did on [[:User talk:Steeletrap]]. If you continue you may be blocked from Wikipedia.

''You accused me of making a PA, alleging that I said, without evidence, that another user had made a personal attack. This was a false statement, as I had loads of evidence for this claim, which you have seen on numerous occasions. (either through your participation in conversations where she attacked me, or in my and user SPECIFICO's personally relaying to you the PAs; please see my talk page for a brief sampling of the PAs.) Note that, per [[WP:WIAPA]], false accusations of PAs such as yours are themselves personal attacks.'' [[User:Steeletrap|Steeletrap]] ([[User talk:Steeletrap|talk]]) 16:04, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

:Do you believe holding "loads of evidence" is justification for repeating, again and again and again, your charges of PA in various postings? How many such accusations on various talk pages would be enough? Or, do you think you have an unlimited right to complain about the PA? At the very least, this demonstrates a lack of good faith. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 16:10, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

:: Yes, in the event that such conduct continues, as it has. I am glad that you are backing away from your assertion that my claim of PA had no evidence; an assertion which, per [[WP:WIAPA]], was itself a PA. [[User:Steeletrap|Steeletrap]] ([[User talk:Steeletrap|talk]]) 16:18, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

:::I will caution you again that your belief that you have justification to post repeated (unlimited?) complaints of PA is completely wrong. If there fresh instances of PA, then post them. But holding a history of past PA is ''not'' a justification. Moreover, I am not backing away from my assertion in the least. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 16:25, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
:::Also, please note that nothing in [[WP:No_personal_attacks#Responding_to_personal_attacks]] justifies repeated accusations of PA. In fact the guidance says "Avoid responding on a talk page of ''an article''; this tends to escalate matters. [Emphasis in original]" – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 16:59, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

== Hoppe reversion ==

Hi Rich. I think you agree that we don't want an EW on the title thing, so I don't plan on reverting until this is sorted out. But your justification for your reversion strikes me as erroneous. The consensus (3:2) is in favor of the reverted version. And we have made extensive arguments in favor of it on the talk page. [[User:Steeletrap|Steeletrap]] ([[User talk:Steeletrap|talk]]) 21:36, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
:I'm posting an RfC at this moment. (It's the first one I've ever done, so I'm not sure on the technical details.) Preserving the existing section title is needed because the RfC, thus far composed, refers to that particular section and the talk page we have been working on. As for the count, Furry has not weighed in on the discussion. (And I'm sure you realize that we don't settle these things by voting.) Thanks. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 21:41, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
::Consensus is not necessarily proved by numbers, Steeletrap, however I'm so very distressed to see edit-warring behavior by Srich in this matter. There's no record to confirm Srich's insistence that this was definitively litigated in the past [[WP:CCC]] [[wp:DRNC]] [[WP:OWN]] and other policies apply. Moreover Srich, you keep changing your rationalization for the reverts. It's not in the spirit of collaboration. You haven't even waited to hear from Furry in response to your earlier remarks. I'm going to undo your edit, so don't rely on your EW version being intact for the RfC. [[User:SPECIFICO | '''SPECIFICO''']] [[User_talk:SPECIFICO | ''talk'']] 21:43, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
::: As stated -- the RfC ''that I have already posted'' refers to the section in question and the talk page section, that I initiated uses the term academic freedom. Please do not change because it can or may lead to confusion by editors looking at the RfC. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 21:48, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
::::Please get some assistance or rename the talk page section to a term such as Hoppe Controversy RfC. Please don't be offended, but it goes without saying that your difficulty is self-created and could have been avoided by leaving Steeletrap's heading in place. Thanks. [[User:SPECIFICO | '''SPECIFICO''']] [[User_talk:SPECIFICO | ''talk'']] 22:00, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

What a pain! I revert and say I'm posting an RfC. I post the RfC and give reference in it to the talk page and particular section. I then ask that the section title be kept so that editors can see WTF we've been talking about. But you, SPECIFICO, have to go and change it back, and accuse me of EW. There is no stinking EW going on -- the section heading "was" the one that had been there for years and I'm the one who initiated the talk page and the RfC. How long are we supposed to wait for Furry to comment? Doesn't Furry have a watch list? I'm not changing any of my rationalizations for keeping the section heading as it was -- I am trying to explain the rationalization! Interfering with the section heading as you did after I explained the section heading change and initiated the talk page and initiated the RfC is [[WP:POINTY]] behavior. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 22:08, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

== Opening a request for comment ==

Hello Srich32977. It appears you want to open a request for comment about [[Hans-Hermann Hoppe]]. There is no need for you to post at [[Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Request board]]. Instead, follow the instructions at:

*[[WP:Request for comment#Request comment on articles, policies, or other non-user issues]]

You make your addition to the '''article talk page'''. Add the template {{tlx|rfc|blah|blah}} as described in the instructions. Then a bot automatically posts a notice in the central RfC list. Explain in the text of the RfC question what the issue is, and link to any talk sections that you want. It helps if you pose the question in yes-or-no fashion to avoid any uncertainty on how to interpret the !votes.

If you are uncertain as to the best RfC question to ask, you can open a thread on talk *first* and ask others for comment. You could also post multiple proposed section titles in the RfC and ask for votes if you want. Thanks, [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 22:02, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

:I appreciate your assistance. Please take a look at what I've done, and if you would tweak as needed. I thought I had it down correctly, but SPECIFICO came on in and changed the article page so that more work was/is needed. (I am not happy about SPECIFICO's action in this regard.) And responding to both the article revisions and talk page comments, when I had said I was posting an RfC has not made the task any easier or pleasant. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 22:12, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
::There is no conventional {{tlx|rfc}} template on the talk page. While you *can* use the 'Request Board' system it won't get the RfC listed in the usual places. Also the automatic notification bot won't invite others to participate. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 22:58, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
::: As this is a BLP, should I or can I post <nowiki>{{rfc|bio}}</nowiki>? – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 23:02, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
::::The tags you put in the {{tlx|rfc}} template are up to you. I suggest 'bio' and 'pol,' which you would write as {{tlx|rfc|bio|pol}}. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 23:28, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
:::::Got it. But the talk page comments are too much to handle right now. Maybe if Carolmooredc's most recent edit sticks for a while, this will blow over. (She's restored the version that was there for years. But I'm not too hopeful at the moment.) {{smiley|24}} – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 23:40, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

== New section ==

I'll be moving to have Steeletrap banned from the article in BLPN after weekend. Specifico's recent defamatory comments which I've hidden make him ripe too. The evidence that the POV of these two academic colleagues is far too much like a WP:COI becomes stronger every day. Even with all the nonsense I've seen on BLPs in the Israel-Palestine area, this is the worst WP:BLP assault I've had to deal with. They really hate him! ''[[User:Carolmooredc|CarolMooreDC]] - <small>[[User talk:Carolmooredc|talkie talkie]]</small><big>&#x1f5fd;</big> 00:59, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

== RfC ==

Hi. I think this needs to be posed as a question with a specific alternative, e.g. "Should ... changed to 'Controversy on Hoppe's views of homosexuality'" (or whatever Steeletrap's last version was.) Then editors know what they're voting for and against. [[User:SPECIFICO | '''SPECIFICO''']] [[User_talk:SPECIFICO | ''talk'']] 02:16, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
:Seeking to post the most non-POV title for the RfC, not suggesting anything. Editors can review the remarks and say "Yes, change to ..." There may be lots of acceptable alternatives. Or they can say "No, ....". – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 02:28, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
:::No uninvolved editor is going to understand that or take the effort to get up to speed. They just won't take the time and effort to come up with their own alternatives and if they do, you'll have a long list of alternatives with splintered vote. Apparently per a recent talk page comment, not even Carolmooredc has read the talk thread. It should have the specific alternative that you reverted or the else Steeletrap's alternative, but to have no concrete question in place does not focus the decision. Check with an admin if you have any further concern, but I feel the current form of the question will not be constructive. [[User:SPECIFICO | '''SPECIFICO''']] [[User_talk:SPECIFICO | ''talk'']] 02:33, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
:::: Rich, please change the title of your question from the vague and unhelpful "Should the title for the "Academic freedom controversy" section be changed?" to "Should the title for the "Academic Freedom Controversy" section be changed to "Controversy over views on homosexuality"? Providing a concrete alternative will facilitate discussion and debate. Thanks. [[User:Steeletrap|Steeletrap]] ([[User talk:Steeletrap|talk]]) 03:47, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
::::::Rich, FYI, Steeletrap's request was made after my complaint about User:Specifico's canvassing.
::::::I believe because of User:Specifico's campaigning to 10 wikiprojects with an inappropriate title, the RfC has to be cancelled. In any case, I have added the canvassing [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring&diff=556680893&oldid=556680567 here] to the ongoing WP:ANI on Specifico and Steeletrap. ''[[User:Carolmooredc|CarolMooreDC]] - <small>[[User talk:Carolmooredc|talkie talkie]]</small><big>&#x1f5fd;</big> 03:53, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

:::::::No to both requests. WP editors are smart enough to figure it out. You can add your comment to the discussion that says "Yes. Change to "blah, blah, blah" because "......". The notice simply serves to say "There is a discussion going on over at..." The notice does not set the stage for the discussion. As I said above, adding a suggested title tends to skew the POV. My posting was NPOV. Re the canvassing, I believe tagging can remedy that problem. If the RfC is cancelled, then it'll have to be restarted or the lousy debate over the stinking section title will continue on the talk page. Fresh eyes are needed. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 03:59, 25 May 2013 (U TC)
::::::::::Insert: Not sure what you mean by tagging,but once I saw how many there were I sure didn't want to have to correct them all! I brought up invalidation cause saw it done once before, but not sure of correct protocol otherwise. ''[[User:Carolmooredc|CarolMooreDC]] - <small>[[User talk:Carolmooredc|talkie talkie]]</small><big>&#x1f5fd;</big> 04:33, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
:::::::::::Seems to me there was something available to alert editors about canvassing, but I can't find it at the moment. (There is a tag for canvassing done with particular editors, but that does not apply here.) Perhaps I'll go to the various notices and post something that clarifies what the actual RfC title is. But then that might be objected to as an improper counter-canvassing. I don't know what the guidance is, so I won't do anything until I find out for sure. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 04:42, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

::::::::: Rich, my strong view is that they won't be willing to read all the surrounding context when such a vague and unspecific question is leading into it. My suggested title -- or another one which invokes homosexuality -- provides organization and clarity to the debate which follows. You claim that WP users are "smart enough to figure it out", but if my/Furry's/SPECIFICO's favored title (one which invokes HOppe's views on homosexuality) is inappropriate (as you allege) or "defamatory" (as Carol absurdly alleges), aren't they smart enough to figure that out too? [[User:Steeletrap|Steeletrap]] ([[User talk:Steeletrap|talk]]) 04:12, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

== Apology and offer ==

Hi Rich. My realization that I violated a serious WP rule, in [[3RR]] (for which I was warned), has compelled me to take a step back and think about my contributions to the Hoppe article. While I continue to disagree with you on substantive content-related matters on the Hoppe page such as the section title, the aforementioned realization and subsequent reflections have led me to the conclusion that over the last 24 hours, I expressed my disagreements with you on the Hoppe page in a shrill and impatient manner. I am sorry and hope we can move past this in future editing collaborations. I will be steering clear of the Hoppe article for at least a few days, but I do hope we can build a more agreeable editing relationship in the future. Best, Steeletrap [[User:Steeletrap|Steeletrap]] ([[User talk:Steeletrap|talk]]) 23:29, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
: And all the best back attcha! I've been at this WP stuff for a few years and I know it can get exasperating. You'll see my recently posted frustrated notice, which I upgraded to orange just yesterday. It is the first time I've posted such a notice. But with your most honorable comments in mind, I shall lower the level to a simple {{tl|user frustrated}} format. (And hopefully remove it soon.) Yes, we do have disagreements, but they are not related to Hoppe's views. I've read only a tiny fraction of his stuff, so I can't opine on whether he is right or wrong, good or bad. But as an editor I don't need to read much. That is the job of people who are writing up Secondary material -- we simply use it to build our project. (But I am not developing much regard for him as I work on this stuff!)
: I'll give you another example of where and why reading the Primary stuff is not needed. I see in the LvM article that he had some association with JBS. (That has been a group that I have a very low regard for.) Well, is that material supported by RS? At present I'm looking. But I saw that the JBS article had North as a "See also" link. So I ask myself what is the rationale for posting that link? (I did not recall seeing any such connection in other articles.) Well, nothing in North's article links him to JBS, so the link maybe an indirect (and unsupported) jab at North. Without a rationale the link is improper, so I removed it. Now will someone else come along & restore it? Perhaps, but they'd better have a justification for doing so. And if that article remains stable for a few days I will take it off my watch list.
: Steeletrap, I hope that each time I've quoted policy and guidelines for you, it has been for a valid purpose and that the results are positive. Your response gives me great heart in that regard. Thank you, and here's a {{smiley|16}} to go along with my best wishes. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 00:05, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
:: Your citations of WP policy/guidelines really generally have helped my learning process, Rich. As has the personal study of policy I have been inspired to undergo by arguments with you. The North/JBS thing does seem like a jab (though "again whom"? is perhaps a good question, since neither JBS nor North has a particularly savory reputation :P) if the connection is not established as significant by RS; I will take a look later. [[User:Steeletrap|Steeletrap]] ([[User talk:Steeletrap|talk]]) 20:52, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

== Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in. ==

[[File:Peacedove.svg|60px|left]]
This message is being sent to you let you know of a discussion at the [[Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard]] regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You do not need to participate; however, you are invited to help find a resolution.
Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you!<!--Template:DRN-notice--> ''[[User:Carolmooredc|CarolMooreDC]] - <small>[[User talk:Carolmooredc|talkie talkie]]</small><big>&#x1f5fd;</big> 19:25, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello. There is currently a discussion at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents]] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. <!--Template:ANI-notice--> Thank you.
You aren't really the subject of it, only mentioned, but better safe than sorry thought I'd tell you. ''[[User:Carolmooredc|CarolMooreDC]] - <small>[[User talk:Carolmooredc|talkie talkie]]</small><big>&#x1f5fd;</big> 01:34, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

== JBS issue ==

The issue wasn't just confined to an improper association of JBS with Gary North. Also listed under "See also" on the [[John Birch Society|JBS]] page are [[R.J. Rushdoony|R.J. Rushdoony,]] [[Dominion Theology]], and the [[Chalcedon Foundation]]. I have studied both the JBS and Dominionism in an academic context, so I know more than a bit about their ideological and social norms. Put over-simplistically, Dominionist theology (also known as Christian Reconstructionism) is the view that Christians ought to work to construct a political order which upholds the Mosaic Law outlined in the Old Testatement (e.g., stoning gays and recalcitrant children to death); R.J. Rushdoony is probably the most important Dominionist "intellectual", who -- along with Gary North -- has written extensive (in my view, crackpot) works on political strategy, economics, history, and how they relate to the future of the Dominionist project; and the Chalcedon Foundation is thinktank Rushdoony founded to promulgate Dominionism/Reconstructionism.

Apart from also being a far-right fringe group, there does not appear to be any evidence JBS is associated with or endorses the ideas of any of the three aforementioned subjects. (Indeed, while it does tend to be populated by Christian fundamentalists, JBS -- in stark contrast to the "Dominionists" -- is willing to work with non-Christians and even irreligious people on behalf of "fighting the NWO", and what that mission may mean in the current political situation often has little or nothing to do with advancing a particular religious (Christian) idea.) Please look into this if you have a chance, as these edits may have been (as you say) baseless jibes. [[User:Steeletrap|Steeletrap]] ([[User talk:Steeletrap|talk]]) 21:23, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

:The stuff about Dominionism, X-ian reconstruct, Mosaic law, etc. is much too abstruse for me. Still I'd say your edits are well-founded. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 21:59, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

== Mis-categorization ==

Hallo. Thanks for trying to fix the problem in [[User talk:Quiddity/How it Works]]. I did see the mis-categorization last night, and attempted to go about fixing it by checking the code in [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory/Links]] - Much more complicated than usual! So I left it until later (now!).

It appears the template automatically adds the category if&onlyif the page otherwise has no categories. (I think? Hmm, nope, I tested adding it to Cat:User essays, but it still added the Wikiproject cat in addition). I have no idea how it's meant to work! That template isn't critical, I'll just add a manual link to the directory, instead.

Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks, and ask how you found the page? Are you using a tool/script/bot that watches for miscategorizations, or did you already have that page watchlisted? (Regardless, I hope you read and appreciated it ;)

Best wishes, –[[User:Quiddity|Quiddity]] ([[User talk:Quiddity|talk]]) 21:24, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

: When you added a "|" in front of the template i thought you fixed it. So I posted a note on the talk page. Then you changed it back. THEN i realized this was an essay page, and saw that you have a regular page. (And now I see you have fixed it.) Once I had my morning coffee, all became clearer. How did I find the essay? It was listed on the category page for various WikiProjects. I was perusing it for different projects. Happy editing! – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 21:43, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

== Civility thing ==

Hi rich. Your post on my wall accusing me of uncivility was mistaken; as such, I deleted it. I did revise the post to remove any language that could be construed as loaded, but no personal attack was made in the original. (I do not believe that describing a highly charged (and false) personal accusation as "nonsense" is "uncivil", but I have replaced this term with more vanilla language in hopes of placating you.) I continue to believe that the entry I added to the talk page serves as an important substantive contribution to the knowledge of editors, especially those new to the Hoppe page and the debates at the talk page which shape it, and should not be read as a jab. Thanks. [[User:Steeletrap|Steeletrap]] ([[User talk:Steeletrap|talk]]) 01:43, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
:{{ec}} Without looking at your revised remark, and in response to your talk page reply (deleted), I will say the original remark did come across as a jab. "Her charges have been found to be baseless at an ANI she filed ... [therefore what she says] should be assumed to be nonsense until proven otherwise." Bbb23 closed the ANI down because it was part of the ''bickering'' about the article, and said specifically that editors must treat each other with more respect. Your comment about nonsense was not complying with the admonition. Please focus ''article'' improvement and put your feelings about Carol aside. (Please note that I am not taking Carol's side on the BLP issue. And I oppose her Canvassing complaint about SPECIFICO.) – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 03:22, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

[[Image:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Please do not [[Wikipedia:No personal attacks|attack]] other editors, as you did to [[User:Steeletrap]]. Comment on ''content'', not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please [[Wikipedia:Staying cool when the editing gets hot|stay cool]] and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you.<!-- Template:uw-npa2 --> ''
There is no personal attack in my remark on the Hoppe page. (Saying someone's beliefs are false is not the same as calling him or her a liar; is this seriously what you're claiming?) Making charges of PA based on no evidence are clearly PAs. (I would also add that your understanding of the BLP issue is false. First, if a charge of BLP violations is rejected, it can be inferred that the admin/editors who rejected it.) Second, literally every editor on the BLP debate explicitly asserted that Carol's claims are false/incorrect.) [[User:Steeletrap|Steeletrap]] ([[User talk:Steeletrap|talk]]) 05:20, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
: Even so, putting these observations and feelings and facts on an ''article talk page'' is inappropriate. They have nothing to do with article content, they do nothing to improve the article, they do no advance civil discussion between editors with regard to improving the article. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 05:28, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
:: That's just your subjective judgment, particularly since those (false) charges of BLP were so instrumental in shaping the composition of the Hoppe page. [[User:Steeletrap|Steeletrap]] ([[User talk:Steeletrap|talk]]) 12:36, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

== Soto name and on fractional banking ==

*It seems to me in some source they kept calling him "Huerta de Soto" in ref to a last name. Also "de Soto" probably is used thusly. Is it worth it to check that out and change accordingly? Want to do it?? :-)
*Do you want to look into those refs I put up on the talk page about debates among libertarians on fractional reserve and expand the section or should I? It is an area of long interest to me (though I disagree with him on the fraud issue) but I'd be very happy to let you do it since trying to spend less time on Wikipedia. It's up to you. (Also, searching "review of" his most relevant book might bring up some good returns.) ''[[User:Carolmooredc|CarolMooreDC]] - <small>[[User talk:Carolmooredc|talkie talkie]]</small><big>&#x1f5fd;</big> 16:04, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

== Your copyedits to Fuck: Word Taboo and Protecting Our First Amendment Liberties ==

Thanks very much for your copyedits to the article I've recently created from scratch, at ''[[Fuck: Word Taboo and Protecting Our First Amendment Liberties]]''.

I've retained the vast bulk of them and raised issue with some of them on the article's talk page at [[Talk:Fuck: Word Taboo and Protecting Our First Amendment Liberties]].

Hopefully they are just minor points but there are extra bits of information that I think are only helpful to the reader to retain and keep in the article rather than summary removal.

Perhaps we could engage in talk page discussion in the future before more removals of information from the article?

Thank you for your time, &mdash; '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 17:30, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

== Thanks very much and sources query ==

Thanks very much for your helpful and polite contribution to talk page discussion at [[Talk:Fuck: Word Taboo and Protecting Our First Amendment Liberties]], much appreciated!

Do you perhaps happen to know of any other secondary sources or potential references not yet cited and incorporated into the article???

If you do, if you could suggest them on the talk page that would be most appreciated, &mdash; '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 17:50, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

== Hola ! ==

The worldcat listing on Human Action Catalan edition states Soto wrote the preface. It lists the translator, but the translator is not Soto. Hasta etc. [[User:SPECIFICO | '''SPECIFICO''']] [[User_talk:SPECIFICO | ''talk'']] 14:42, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
:In which case I shall change. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 14:44, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
::Nicely done. [[User:SPECIFICO | '''SPECIFICO''']] [[User_talk:SPECIFICO | ''talk'']] 15:07, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
:::If article text, which has adequate RS, is incorrect, then it should be revised. Removing sourced material with an inaccurate edit summary is not helpful. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 15:09, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
::::That goes without saying. The present example was fiction with a vaguely related citation which did not support the fictitious text. But you took lemons and made lemonade, all to the good. [[User:SPECIFICO | '''SPECIFICO''']] [[User_talk:SPECIFICO | ''talk'']] 23:09, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

== Overlink v the educational purpose of wikilinks ==

Yes, you know what tax exempt status means and that Manhattan is a borough, and what that means, but not every reader is also going to know those things. Wikipedia is supposed to be educational. Taking out most of the links makes it hard for people who do not know what you know. --[[User:Id4abel|Abel]] ([[User talk:Id4abel|talk]]) 14:23, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
:[[WP:SEAOFBLUE]] applies. We want to educate people ''about FEE and its contributors'', not about geographical terminology or [[:president]], etc.. The tax status was changed only for better layout in the infobox. The article is already ''[[:massively]]'' linked. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 14:41, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
::None of the points of "general points on linking style" were violated. --[[User:Id4abel|Abel]] ([[User talk:Id4abel|talk]]) 16:49, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
:::Here are my changes: [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Foundation_for_Economic_Education&diff=560465136&oldid=552247757]. The article now has a more reasonable level of linking -- focusing more on the authors. [[MOS:LINK]] warns about excessive linking. Again, as an example, [[:president]] was linked, but the president article itself is about governmental presidents and has a small section about NGO presidents. Did we link president so that they could learn more about national presidents? No -- we want to encourage readers to learn more about FEE and the various contributors by linking those names. Readers who want to learn more about [[:WWII]] etc, will use "Search" Too many links distract from the important stuff. Abel, you've created a Good Article. Don't fall victim to [[WP:OWN]]. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 17:15, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
::::Am not disagreeing with [[president]], [[vice-president]], [[professor]], [[author]], or [[Atlanta]]. I am disagreeing with [[Tax exemption|tax exempt]], [[Borough (New York City)|borough]], [[Estate (land)|estate]], [[chairman]], [[economist]], [[Lawrence Reed]], [[World War II]], [[headquarters]], [[acre]], and [[Residency (domicile)|resident]]. No one owns any Wikipedia article, that is kind of the point of the whole thing.--[[User:Id4abel|Abel]] ([[User talk:Id4abel|talk]]) 18:56, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
::::: Reed is a triplicate. The residency article is a lousy one. Chairman is not much different than prez or VP. Other items are common English words. (I agree about relinking economist, and will do so shortly.) As for the rest, how about posting a [[WP:3O]] review? – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 19:14, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
::::::If Reed is already linked then yeah, no need to do so again. The residency article might not be good, but there is no reason to believe that it won't be better in the future. Also, a less than perfect explanation is still better than no explanation at all for people who have no idea what it means to be a resident, especially considering that this is one of the disambiguated terms. Most people have no earthly idea what an economist does, and the same goes for a chairman. At best you would get "someone important" with no real understanding of the position, although I will concede that this one is debatable. Tax exempt, borough, estate, headquarters, and acre might have been common English words at one time, but they are no longer. Just like I would expect anyone over 40 to immediately know what World War II was, but for others? Not so much. --[[User:Id4abel|Abel]] ([[User talk:Id4abel|talk]]) 19:32, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

== Soto ==

Greetings. My talk and edit comments tried to make clear that the existence of 7 volumes, which I retained, is not in doubt but the details and characterization of them is all OR and SYNTH. Please undo your reinsertion of my edit and lets continue the discussion on the article talk page if you wish. BRD time. Thanks. [[User:SPECIFICO |<font color ="0011FF"> '''SPECIFICO'''</font>]][[User_talk:SPECIFICO | ''talk'']] 14:13, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

== Soto ==

Greetings. My talk and edit comments tried to make clear that the existence of 7 volumes, which I retained, is not in doubt but the details and characterization of them is all OR and SYNTH. The publisher website is an additional primary source, not a secondary source. Please review policy and definitions of primary source. Please undo your reinsertion of my edit and lets continue the discussion on the article talk page if you wish. BRD time. Thanks. [[User:SPECIFICO |<font color ="0011FF"> '''SPECIFICO'''</font>]][[User_talk:SPECIFICO | ''talk'']] 14:16, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

:I have made remarks on the talk page. You are misapplying primary source. Soto's CV is the primary source when he says "I wrote, I edited, I ... such and such." And primary sources can be used if they have reliability, particularly about the person. The secondary source is the publisher data which lists Soto as an editor on the copyright page. Also, we can confirm via WorldCat data. Your edit left the reader with the CV data only. The restored info has the Googlebooks data. It is more helpful, and serves to confirm what the CV says. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 14:23, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
::Hi no you're wrong. The U Chi Press page is a primary source document. Policy cites the example of viewing a parking ticket, primary source, does not qualify to assert "Soto received a parking ticket." Please undo yourself and resolve on talk. I wouldn't want to encourage other editors to think edit-warring is a good mode of discussion. Thanks. [[User:SPECIFICO |<font color ="0011FF"> '''SPECIFICO'''</font>]][[User_talk:SPECIFICO | ''talk'']] 14:26, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
:::So even if UChicago (and Union Editorial) is primary, it is completely acceptable. We are not doing some intrepretation of the data. E.g., we are not saying "he was the primary editor" or "the widely published" or "influential" Spanish edition. We are simply saying Soto was an editor of the Spanish stuff. You are spinning this concern about primary too far. And you are misreading the PS guidance. "An account of a traffic accident written by ''a witness'' is a primary source of information about the accident." Soto is writing "I was in a traffic accident and here's what happened ''to me''." – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 14:47, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
::::The latter would not be an acceptable account of the facts concerning the incident, particularly to the extent it involved other people or entities and made assertions about the participant's actions relating to the accident. Does the Adolph Eichmann article quote him regarding the false allegations against him? Does Bill Clinton's article say "Clinton never had sex with that woman..." usw. I feel that you're inciting a riot on talk over there. Frankly although I know you understand the issues, I don't believe that other editors may even be aware of the wide range of the various roles which could all be described as 'editor' -- the whole thing needs a bona fide secondary source. Anyway, citing the 7 Hayek volumes as part of Editorial Union's project founded and headed by Soto, which was my solution, more than adequately references his important role and the scope of the project without resorting to any undue ambiguous, unsourced, or otherwise problematic claims. Please consider restoring my version while we continue talk page resolution. Thanks, amigo. [[User:SPECIFICO |<font color ="0011FF"> '''SPECIFICO'''</font>]][[User_talk:SPECIFICO | ''talk'']] 16:13, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

== Gun Control ==

Srich Carolmoore attacked user:goethean, not me, on gun control. Your comment there was out of left field and had nothing to do with what had just happened. Please remove it. You should not be making personal remarks like that on article talk pages to begin with, especially on articles in which you've previously had no involvement. Please remove those remarks. [[User:SPECIFICO |<font color ="0011FF"> '''SPECIFICO'''</font>]][[User_talk:SPECIFICO | ''talk'']] 03:56, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

== My talk page Iban ==

:Since User: Srich keeps talking voluntary IBANs and wants to keep temperatures and soapbox down, how about he doesn't comment on my talk page (and specifico neither) unless it is a ("one") official template notice and then send me to the relevant noticeboard/talk page for further discussion. Thanks. ''[[User:Carolmooredc|CarolMooreDC]] - <small>[[User talk:Carolmooredc|talk to me<big>&#x1f5fd;</big>]]</small> 06:21, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
::What are you saying CarolMooreDC, that you don't want me to comment on your talkpage? And why is this a new section? It seems to be directed towards SPECIFICO. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 14:44, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
:::Congratulations, Srich. You are persona non grata. Welcome. [[User:SPECIFICO |<font color ="0011FF"> '''SPECIFICO'''</font>]][[User_talk:SPECIFICO | ''talk'']] 14:56, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
::::SRich, you tempt me to naughtiness on my personal talk page and I don't want to get in trouble. User: Specifio, I banned Steeletrap before, not you, even though you banned me way back when, remember? But I decided just to be fair to User: Srich should ban you too - unless you have official notices and for very limited discussion of them, like I just replied to your incivility complaint and mentioned that failure to discuss is edit warring, for which the diff'd evidence grows everyday. But I always liked to think people will see the light and become a Wikipedia Firster instead of a (MY POV) Firster.... ''[[User:Carolmooredc|CarolMooreDC]] - <small>[[User talk:Carolmooredc|talk to me<big>&#x1f5fd;</big>]]</small> 17:40, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

== Talk:Austrian School‎ ==

That comment has everything to do with article improvement. The only difference between Lady O and SPECIFICO is that SPECIFICO is about one hundred times better at concealing the campaign of destruction. Making a few useful edits, using reasonable sounding edit descriptions that conceal the actual actions taken, citing respected sources and half sticking to what the sources actually said, ... Masterful gaming of the system. I applaud the intelligence behind the campaign. There is dedication and craftiness that would be one of the biggest assets ever if applied to improving articles rather than used to push unsupported propaganda against a theory onto an unfamiliar population. --[[User:Id4abel|Abel]] ([[User talk:Id4abel|talk]]) 13:19, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
:Reply is on your talk page. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 14:10, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

== Petition to Pardon Bradley Manning and/or commute his sentence time already served. ==

I've started a discussion regrading the inclusion of a reference to the Petition to Pardon Bradley Manning on Talk:Bradley Manning and I'\m hoping that you'll join in
Harold Darling[[User:Harold Darling|Harold Darling]] ([[User talk:Harold Darling|talk]]) 20:08, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi there, I removed the external petition link - do you have any further objections to the adding a reference the Petition to Pardon Bradley Manning reference?{{Unsigned|Harold Darling|14:19, June 24, 2013‎}}

:Yes. Discussion is on article talk page. We go with what's decided there by consensus. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 23:14, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

::I am going back to he drawing board regarding a reference to Manning's petition - will probably rewrite the petition reference as part of a more comprehensive passage about the public response to Manning's disclosure of classified information - what is the protocol? Start a new discussion? or post on article talk page ? I am new to wikipedia editing and your assistance is appreciated
[[User:Harold Darling|Harold Darling]] ([[User talk:Harold Darling|talk]]) 18:23, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
:::IMHO you do not have consensus on the Manning talk page to add the ''petition link itself''. Without looking, I think a secondary source (newspaper or some-such) has mentioned the petition. That would represent a compromise -- the mention is made (of this rather minor aspect to the Manning saga), without using WP to promote the petition. As for what you'd like to do, write up your proposed paragraph(s) and post them on the talk page.
::: Harold, you are quite [[WP:BB|daring]] in this initial WP effort. Manning has been a high profile article in the past, and so lots of editors follow it. Of course there are POVs about him -- so expect your newbie efforts in this process to generate push-back. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 18:37, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

I should have never included a petition link - I was mistaken - and I can see the wisdom of not permitting folks to use Wikipedia for the sole purpose of increasing traffic - As for Manning passage, I am rewriting it tonight

Best [[User:Harold Darling|Harold Darling]] ([[User talk:Harold Darling|talk]]) 19:21, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

== You deleted the Notable Alumni on the Desert Hot Springs High School site... ==

Srich32977,

I'm a teacher at Desert Hot Springs High School and I've been there since the beginning. This is the first time that we have had a notable alumni after 14 years of the school's opening.
I asked Noemi Gonzalez if it would be okay to add her to the site. What do you want from me a signed document from Noemi.

Greg Andrade <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/74.106.45.250|74.106.45.250]] ([[User talk:74.106.45.250|talk]]) 07:18, 27 June 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:I will reply at [[User talk:Greg Andrade]] – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 11:01, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

=== In regards to Noemi Gonzalez... ===

Srich,

Here's some information about her:

[[East_Los_High|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Los_High]]


Happy whatever you celebrate today, - more who died, more to come, and they made the world [[User talk:Gerda Arendt#rich day|richer]]. Greetings from Madrid where I took the pic of assorted [[Cucurbita]] in 2016. --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 17:05, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
http://eastloshigh.com/cast/


== Full width replacement ==
Sincerely,
Please make sure you don't accidentally replace full width punctuation when used in quotations with other full width characters, where its use is correct. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">[[User:Remsense|<span style="color:#fff">'''Remsense'''</span>]]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>[[User talk:Remsense|<span lang="zh" style="color:#fff">'''论'''</span>]]</span> 16:38, 23 October 2024 (UTC)


:Oh no, I am also seeing that you are automatically replacing the character {{hani|{{code|一}}}}—a very common character, meaning 'one'—with the sequence {{code| – }}. I strongly suggest you go back through your edit history and fix instances where you did this. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">[[User:Remsense|<span style="color:#fff">'''Remsense'''</span>]]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>[[User talk:Remsense|<span lang="zh" style="color:#fff">'''论'''</span>]]</span> 16:42, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
Greg Andrade
::@[[User:Srich32977|Srich32977]] why haven't you acknowledged this yet? I have to revert most of the edits you make to China-related articles. It is absurd. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">[[User:Remsense|<span style="color:#fff">'''Remsense'''</span>]]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>[[User talk:Remsense|<span lang="zh" style="color:#fff">'''论'''</span>]]</span> 02:58, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
P.S.


== DOI & JSTOR ==
I put some information on Robin Shou for Palm Springs High School, that was taken off as well,
Hey—would you consider removing redundant DOIs while copyediting also? When DOIs begin with 10.2307, they are totally redundant with JSTOR and just indicate the same destination. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">[[User:Remsense|<span style="color:#fff">'''Remsense'''</span>]]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>[[User talk:Remsense|<span lang="zh" style="color:#fff">'''论'''</span>]]</span> 03:52, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
even though you have a Wiki page on him. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Greg Andrade|Greg Andrade]] ([[User talk:Greg Andrade|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Greg Andrade|contribs]]) 19:40, 27 June 2013 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Greg, I'd prefer to discuss this on your talk page. I will remark there. That page is on my "watch list", so I will see any changes made. Thank you. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 19:52, 27 June 2013 (UTC)


:Thanks so very much for the DOI hint. At present I'm going to continue my JSTOR hunt. (Only 6,000 more to go!) Adding DOIs to my prey is too much right now. But I greatly appreciate that you've noticed I'm on the prowl! – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 04:14, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
== [[Libertarian Republican]] ==
::I just figure it's something that's easy to do if you notice it while otherwise doing JSTOR cleanup. And thank you, ofc <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">[[User:Remsense|<span style="color:#fff">'''Remsense'''</span>]]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>[[User talk:Remsense|<span lang="zh" style="color:#fff">'''论'''</span>]]</span> 04:15, 22 November 2024 (UTC)


== Not sure what happened here ==
Thanks for undoing my blunder. Not sure what happened. Cheers [[User:Jim1138|Jim1138]] ([[User talk:Jim1138|talk]]) 17:48, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
:You're welcome; now all is well with the world – and Wikipedia! – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 17:53, 30 June 2013 (UTC)


In [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=1259208960&oldid=1222925353&title=Arctic_shrew this edit], you somehow replaced the template parameter "pages" with an emoji, which broke the citation. Not sure what happened there, but please be careful if you're using some sort of automated tool that's accidentally doing that. ''':Jay8g''' <small>[<nowiki />[[User:Jay8g|V]]•[[User talk:Jay8g|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Jay8g|E]]<nowiki />]</small> 04:18, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
== Inevitable complaint ==


:Not sure myself! With the mobile WP app there is no preview function. And reading the revised text, with tiny emoji changes, can be difficult. Thus I must often rely on the kindness of strangers. Thanks! – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 23:05, 24 November 2024 (UTC) – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 23:05, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
So the complaint that I called inevitable did indeed [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Disruptive_talk_page_notices_by_User:SPECIFICO happen]. After looking over your talk page, that discussion is incomplete without your input. [[User:Id4abel|Abel]] ([[User talk:Id4abel|talk]]) 17:42, 1 July 2013 (UTC)


== ISBN formatting ==
:Yes. But the only solution that I see between these editors is a [[WP:IBAN]]. I got {{tl|user frustrated|orange=yes}} trying to keep them from scratching at each other on the talkpages. ''Perhaps'' I shall add my two-bits. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 17:48, 1 July 2013 (UTC)


Per [[Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Archive 188#RfC: Standardizing ISBN formatting (and an end to editwarring about it)|this VPP RFC from last year]], do not make any changes to ISBN formatting. Do not enforce any personal preference. Do not even enforce uniformity within a specific article. Please adjust your tool options accordingly. [[User:DMacks|DMacks]] ([[User talk:DMacks|talk]]) 18:09, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
::Had no comment about their interaction. My post only covered my personal experience with SPECIFICO. You have plenty of personal experience with SPECIFICO, so I would encourage you to think about telling your story to make the story presented more complete. --[[User:Id4abel|Abel]] ([[User talk:Id4abel|talk]]) 20:06, 1 July 2013 (UTC)


:"Do not even enforce uniformity within a specific article." This is a vague command! And not in keeping with good copy editing. It says "do not seek consistency" -- one of the principal goals of good copy editing. And you've proven that you'll tag an editor with one command (ISBN's), and then block the editor based on the complaints of one or two other editors because they think non-uniformity is acceptable. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 17:25, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
== Edward Leo Lyman page ==
::I'm stating what the consensus-close of an RFC appeared to be. It's an expectation that editors follow consensus, even if they don't like it for valid reasons. You're welcome to question whether the the comments were evaluated correctly in the previous discussion and/or to start a new discussion to see if the consensus still holds. [[User:DMacks|DMacks]] ([[User talk:DMacks|talk]]) 20:05, 25 November 2024 (UTC)


== November 2024 ==
Am I not supposed to link from a ref list or is the issue that I haven't created the page yet?{{unsigned|Bhanks}}
<div class="user-block" style="padding: 5px; margin-bottom: 0.5em; border: 1px solid var(--border-color-base, #a2ab91); background-color: var(--background-color-warning-subtle, #fef6e7); color:inherit; min-height: 40px">[[File:Stop x nuvola with clock.svg|40px|left|alt=Stop icon with clock]]<div style="margin-left:45px">You have been '''[[WP:Blocking policy|blocked]]''' from editing for a period of '''24 hours''' for [[WP:Disruptive editing|abuse of editing privileges]]. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to [[WP:Five pillars|make useful contributions]]. </div><div style="margin-left:45px">If you believe that there are good reasons for being unblocked, please review Wikipedia's [[WP:Guide to appealing blocks|guide to appealing blocks]], then add the following text to the bottom of your talk page: <!-- Copy the text as it appears on your page, not as it appears in this edit area. --><code><nowiki>{{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}</nowiki></code>. &nbsp;[[User:DMacks|DMacks]] ([[User talk:DMacks|talk]]) 22:27, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</div></div><!-- Template:uw-block -->
:You noted you were writing the article. Why don't you do so? See [[WP:REDNOT]]. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 16:20, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
:This block was triggered by [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Taiwanese_indigenous_peoples&diff=prev&oldid=1259390492 this edit], in which you switched at least one page-range from full-numbers to the abbreviated form you well know is not allowed. And doing so via re-doing your edit that someone else had undone pushes towards edit-warring, which makes your behavior even more inappropriate. [[User:DMacks|DMacks]] ([[User talk:DMacks|talk]]) 22:29, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
::What a disaster. Inconsistent page ranges, sfn errors, citation parameter errors, and more. I have cleaned up what I could find. I am disgusted that we as a community continue to put up with this nonsense after so many years of documented disruption. I was hoping for an escalation from previous blocks for the same behavior. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 23:12, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
{{unblock reviewed|reason=The warning you had posted referred to ISBNs – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 22:52, 24 November 2024 (UTC). The edit which has you refer to did not involve ISBNs. Rather, it was to revert an incorrect Rollback. That rollback involved some 80 corrections I had made. Among other edits I had supplied a consistent page citation format that uses Chicago Manual of Style page cites. [[WP:CITESTYLE]] allows such CMS citations. (The caveat in [[MOS:PAGERANGE]] looks like a "should recommendation, and does not address the CMS guidance. Also, the caveat is there so that editors won't put in vague page range cites. The CMS-syled edits I provided were not vague. Accordingly, I ask that you drop the block. In return I will make recommendations to WP:CITESTYLE to try and reconcile the guidance differences. Thanks. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 22:52, 24 November 2024 (UTC)|decline=If you want to work to change guidelines, that's up to you, but until then you need to heed instructions you're given. Good block. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 09:47, 25 November 2024 (UTC)}}
::I stand by my block, reminding that is not about ISBN but about page-ranges and that at least two other editors explicitly disputed that exact edit of yours (see [[#Citation cleanup]] and its antecedents) and then you reinstated it anyway. As standard, I will leave it to others to formally review your unblock request. They will want to take note of how many times the page-range issue has been raised here by how many editors, how often you have said you would obey the MOS for it, and your insistance that certain chosen external guidelines you like must supercede on-wiki consensus style. [[User:DMacks|DMacks]] ([[User talk:DMacks|talk]]) 00:25, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
:::Well, I think you are abusing your discretion. You send a TLDR message about ISBNs. I had made some ISBN changes in the last few days, and I was looking for the particular diffs so that I could get clarification. Along comes your block.
:::And why was I blocked? One editor had rolled-back my corrections, and when I reverted the roll-back I pointed out how rolling back my corrections was incorrect. (In fact, the incorrect roll-back re-added the page-range problems.) There are 80 corrections at issue in my sinful edit. How many dealt with the "incorrect", but CMS-compliant page-ranges? And how many dealt with other citation corrections? Here are the diffs: [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Taiwanese_indigenous_peoples&diff=prev&oldid=1259390492]. Please count. 10 or 11 of these 80 changes involved putting the page ranges into a pp. 123–24 format. In fact, many other changes involved correcting the format to the pp. 23–24 format that tha complainers supposedly prefer. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 01:14, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
::::"pp. 123–24 format" is not valid on Wikipedia, as has been explained endlessly on this talk page. Quoting {{U|Srich32977}} above: {{tq|Alright, I shall comply with MOS:PAGERANGE}}. You made a promise and then you broke it, repeatedly. I am amazed that the block was only 24 hours. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 04:55, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
:::::I really do wish this wasn't happening, and I hope it's clear I tried to make Srich32977 aware of the specific issue multiple times in a straightforward manner. I am not sure what else I was meant to do. Their fixation on "should" as somehow meaning "optional" such that they may continue unencumbered according to their pre-existing preferences is rather disheartening, I must admit. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">[[User:Remsense|<span style="color:#fff">'''Remsense'''</span>]]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>[[User talk:Remsense|<span lang="zh" style="color:#fff">'''论'''</span>]]</span> 09:50, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 18:29, 11 December 2024

Citation cleanup

[edit]

Hey, just making sure you're aware that per WP:RANGE we do not abbreviate numerical ranges for pages or dates. Please make sure you're familiar with the MOS when making style changes across a large number of articles. Remsense ‥ 论 23:08, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello: WP:RANGE does not address page ranges or dates. Rather, [1] says we should follow a consistent style. (E.g., cites should be consistent in the page ranges presented. That is what I did. Accordingly, please roll back (or revise) your reverts to the various articles. Thanks. – S. Rich (talk) 01:29, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You are incorrect, but I should've checked I was linking MOS:RANGE, cf. MOS:DATERANGE. Remsense ‥ 论 01:31, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
O.Kay. So who's more correct in these edits? I think mine comply with DATERANGE. – S. Rich (talk) 01:43, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Any abbreviation of a range of dates or pages is incorrect. Always write it out instead. Remsense ‥ 论 01:44, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No. Chicago Manual of Style says "123–24" is acceptable. And WP accepts CMS as a citation style. See https://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/tools_citationguide.html – S. Rich (talk) 01:57, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Wikipedia Manual of Style says it's not, except in quotations. Why would we have these guidelines apply everywhere except in citations due to what a different style guide permits? You are misunderstanding what WP:CITESTYLE means in practice; it is not license to ignore what other guidelines like the MOS explicitly require. Maybe WP:CITESTYLE could use a sentence of clarification on this point, but clearly the idea is "different citation styles are acceptable", not "we must allow anything another style guide allows if it's hidden in a citation".Remsense ‥ 论 02:02, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you don't believe me—I find it pretty unambiguous and have little idea of how to make it clearer for you—please consider asking on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style or somewhere else for verification or clarification before re-adding MOS violations. Remsense ‥ 论 02:57, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Srich32977, you have been told many times in the past that abbreviating numbers in ranges here on the English Wikipedia is incorrect. You and I have had multiple discussions on your talk page about this issue. Maybe your memory has failed you; I know mine sometimes does. Please stop abbreviating page ranges. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:50, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, I shall comply with MOS:PAGERANGE. – S. Rich (talk) 21:34, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Srich32977 was this edit a mistake in this way? If so, I apologize: just double-checking since I thought we had come to an understanding. Remsense ‥ 论 23:10, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
...and this. My finger is on the WP:DE-block button, Srich32977. Tell me why I should not press it. DMacks (talk) 23:21, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Srich32977 I really do not want to continue on your case about this, but could you please explain whether it's a mistake or a misunderstanding? You do a lot and mistakes happen, but I keep seeing them. Remsense ‥ 论 18:03, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
DMacks, whenever you are ready: invalid page range changes; invalid changes to location and page/pages/volume parameter values; invalid page range change. I found these in the editor's most recent 25 edits in article space. There are plenty of valid improvements, but the rate of invalid changes is too high, and the editor does not appear to be responding to requests to be more careful and adhere to MOS. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:12, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Jonesey95: of those three examples, the first one is definitely a violation that User:Remsense kindly fixed. The second one looks like a self-revert as part of a series of closely-spaced edits; is there a problem in the net effect a problem? I'm confused by the third one...I see changes to lots of number-ranges (in refs and in body) but I cannot figure out what actually changed. Is it the type of dash character? I does not appear to be the removal of leading high-place digits. DMacks (talk) 11:58, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It looks like I didn't see the end result of the second edit; the overall diff for the seven edits to that article appears to be fine (although the citations needed a lot more cleanup). The third edit resulted in errors such as "|access-date= 3 April 2020] a social or political movement..." (removing "quote=") and changing the valid "pp 77-78" to the nonsensical "pp. 77-I–78" (and missing "1901 – 1939" in the same citation, but making improvements and missing a few would be no sin). So two out of 25 then. And the ones in the section below. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:52, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October thanks

[edit]
story · music · places

Thank you for improving articles on October! - My story today is a cantata 300 years old, based on a hymn 200 years old when the cantata was composed, based on a psalm some thousand years old, - so said the 2015 DYK hook. I had forgotten the discussion on the talk. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:19, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Happy whatever you celebrate today, - more who died, more to come, and they made the world richer. Greetings from Madrid where I took the pic of assorted Cucurbita in 2016. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:05, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Full width replacement

[edit]

Please make sure you don't accidentally replace full width punctuation when used in quotations with other full width characters, where its use is correct. Remsense ‥ 论 16:38, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oh no, I am also seeing that you are automatically replacing the character 一—a very common character, meaning 'one'—with the sequence –. I strongly suggest you go back through your edit history and fix instances where you did this. Remsense ‥ 论 16:42, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Srich32977 why haven't you acknowledged this yet? I have to revert most of the edits you make to China-related articles. It is absurd. Remsense ‥ 论 02:58, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

DOI & JSTOR

[edit]

Hey—would you consider removing redundant DOIs while copyediting also? When DOIs begin with 10.2307, they are totally redundant with JSTOR and just indicate the same destination. Remsense ‥ 论 03:52, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks so very much for the DOI hint. At present I'm going to continue my JSTOR hunt. (Only 6,000 more to go!) Adding DOIs to my prey is too much right now. But I greatly appreciate that you've noticed I'm on the prowl! – S. Rich (talk) 04:14, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I just figure it's something that's easy to do if you notice it while otherwise doing JSTOR cleanup. And thank you, ofc Remsense ‥ 论 04:15, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure what happened here

[edit]

In this edit, you somehow replaced the template parameter "pages" with an emoji, which broke the citation. Not sure what happened there, but please be careful if you're using some sort of automated tool that's accidentally doing that. :Jay8g [V•T•E] 04:18, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure myself! With the mobile WP app there is no preview function. And reading the revised text, with tiny emoji changes, can be difficult. Thus I must often rely on the kindness of strangers. Thanks! – S. Rich (talk) 23:05, 24 November 2024 (UTC) – S. Rich (talk) 23:05, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ISBN formatting

[edit]

Per this VPP RFC from last year, do not make any changes to ISBN formatting. Do not enforce any personal preference. Do not even enforce uniformity within a specific article. Please adjust your tool options accordingly. DMacks (talk) 18:09, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Do not even enforce uniformity within a specific article." This is a vague command! And not in keeping with good copy editing. It says "do not seek consistency" -- one of the principal goals of good copy editing. And you've proven that you'll tag an editor with one command (ISBN's), and then block the editor based on the complaints of one or two other editors because they think non-uniformity is acceptable. – S. Rich (talk) 17:25, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm stating what the consensus-close of an RFC appeared to be. It's an expectation that editors follow consensus, even if they don't like it for valid reasons. You're welcome to question whether the the comments were evaluated correctly in the previous discussion and/or to start a new discussion to see if the consensus still holds. DMacks (talk) 20:05, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 2024

[edit]
Stop icon with clock
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 24 hours for abuse of editing privileges. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions.
If you believe that there are good reasons for being unblocked, please review Wikipedia's guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text to the bottom of your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.  DMacks (talk) 22:27, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This block was triggered by this edit, in which you switched at least one page-range from full-numbers to the abbreviated form you well know is not allowed. And doing so via re-doing your edit that someone else had undone pushes towards edit-warring, which makes your behavior even more inappropriate. DMacks (talk) 22:29, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What a disaster. Inconsistent page ranges, sfn errors, citation parameter errors, and more. I have cleaned up what I could find. I am disgusted that we as a community continue to put up with this nonsense after so many years of documented disruption. I was hoping for an escalation from previous blocks for the same behavior. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:12, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Srich32977 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

The warning you had posted referred to ISBNs – S. Rich (talk) 22:52, 24 November 2024 (UTC). The edit which has you refer to did not involve ISBNs. Rather, it was to revert an incorrect Rollback. That rollback involved some 80 corrections I had made. Among other edits I had supplied a consistent page citation format that uses Chicago Manual of Style page cites. WP:CITESTYLE allows such CMS citations. (The caveat in MOS:PAGERANGE looks like a "should recommendation, and does not address the CMS guidance. Also, the caveat is there so that editors won't put in vague page range cites. The CMS-syled edits I provided were not vague. Accordingly, I ask that you drop the block. In return I will make recommendations to WP:CITESTYLE to try and reconcile the guidance differences. Thanks. – S. Rich (talk) 22:52, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Decline reason:

If you want to work to change guidelines, that's up to you, but until then you need to heed instructions you're given. Good block. 331dot (talk) 09:47, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

I stand by my block, reminding that is not about ISBN but about page-ranges and that at least two other editors explicitly disputed that exact edit of yours (see #Citation cleanup and its antecedents) and then you reinstated it anyway. As standard, I will leave it to others to formally review your unblock request. They will want to take note of how many times the page-range issue has been raised here by how many editors, how often you have said you would obey the MOS for it, and your insistance that certain chosen external guidelines you like must supercede on-wiki consensus style. DMacks (talk) 00:25, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I think you are abusing your discretion. You send a TLDR message about ISBNs. I had made some ISBN changes in the last few days, and I was looking for the particular diffs so that I could get clarification. Along comes your block.
And why was I blocked? One editor had rolled-back my corrections, and when I reverted the roll-back I pointed out how rolling back my corrections was incorrect. (In fact, the incorrect roll-back re-added the page-range problems.) There are 80 corrections at issue in my sinful edit. How many dealt with the "incorrect", but CMS-compliant page-ranges? And how many dealt with other citation corrections? Here are the diffs: [2]. Please count. 10 or 11 of these 80 changes involved putting the page ranges into a pp. 123–24 format. In fact, many other changes involved correcting the format to the pp. 23–24 format that tha complainers supposedly prefer. – S. Rich (talk) 01:14, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"pp. 123–24 format" is not valid on Wikipedia, as has been explained endlessly on this talk page. Quoting Srich32977 above: Alright, I shall comply with MOS:PAGERANGE. You made a promise and then you broke it, repeatedly. I am amazed that the block was only 24 hours. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:55, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I really do wish this wasn't happening, and I hope it's clear I tried to make Srich32977 aware of the specific issue multiple times in a straightforward manner. I am not sure what else I was meant to do. Their fixation on "should" as somehow meaning "optional" such that they may continue unencumbered according to their pre-existing preferences is rather disheartening, I must admit. Remsense ‥ 论 09:50, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Srich32977&oldid=1262491551"