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==Wine in the United States==
{{WP1.0|v0.7=pass|class=C|category=Everydaylife}}
{{user|Ɱ}} I support the page move, but per your category argument, shouldn't it be "Wine in the United States" rather than "of"? That would allow expansion of the article to further discuss consumption of wine, import of wine, etc.. in addition to just United States wine production. [[User:Mdewman6|Mdewman6]] ([[User talk:Mdewman6|talk]]) 20:00, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
:Perhaps, or perhaps it should be a separate article, especially if/when this article actually becomes decent. It seems an article just focusing on wine produced here is important, as [[Template:Wine by country]] has all other countries follow that pattern. (The only other one that now doesn't use a demonym is [[Wine from the United Kingdom]], perhaps because "British" can imply just Britain.) [[User:Ɱ|<span style="text-shadow:#bbb 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em;" class="texhtml">'''ɱ'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ɱ|(talk)]] 20:21, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
:Also will now match the Commonscat and other language versions. [[User:Ɱ|<span style="text-shadow:#bbb 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em;" class="texhtml">'''ɱ'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ɱ|(talk)]] 20:29, 26 February 2020 (UTC)


:: Okay. Well, all the other major wine producing countries followed the American Wine format, e.g. [[French Wine]], [[Italian Wine]], etc. with the present format as redirects. Not sure what format is best to follow. I understand the possibility of confusion that American could encompass more than just the US, but... hmmm. [[User:Mdewman6|Mdewman6]] ([[User talk:Mdewman6|talk]]) 21:37, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
:::Yes, but those countries simply don't have ambiguity with those names. That is why the UK and now US use a slightly different format, paralleled by Commons and other language versions. [[User:Ɱ|<span style="text-shadow:#bbb 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em;" class="texhtml">'''ɱ'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ɱ|(talk)]] 21:39, 26 February 2020 (UTC)


We should do the same for the [[French wine]], [[Spanish wine]], and [[Italian wine]] industries as well. Make it more uniform, [[Wine of France]], [[Wine of Spain]], and [[Wine of Italy]]. [[Special:Contributions/2601:8C2:8080:1BC0:4143:A0A1:9658:252F|2601:8C2:8080:1BC0:4143:A0A1:9658:252F]] ([[User talk:2601:8C2:8080:1BC0:4143:A0A1:9658:252F|talk]]) 03:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
==Untitled==
California is not a country. For contrary-to-fact conditions the past subjunctive mood (were) is correct. Thanks. David Justin
:Noted. Nice article BTW. [[User:Scharks|Scharks]] 01:47, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
==Name==
America is not a country, it's two continents. Either include Canada to Chile, or rename to USA wine or similar. [[User:FlagSteward|FlagSteward]] 16:10, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
:Well if you truly feel that a move is need, feel free to propose an [[WP:RM]] request. However, I will think that [[WP:COMMONNAME]] will come into play. See [[Use of the word American]]. [[User:Agne27 |Agne]][[Special:Contributions/Agne27|<sup>Cheese</sup>]]/[[User Talk:Agne27|<sup>Wine</sup>]] 03:01, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
: Yeah, it was [[Use_of_the_word_American#Political-cultural_views]] that I was thinking of :-)) I just don't see the need to use a controversial name for an article, when there's a perfectly good neutral name in USA wine.[[WP:BIAS]] is also relevant here.
[[User:FlagSteward|FlagSteward]] 10:52, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:polltop -->
:''The following discussion is an archived discussion of the {{{type|proposal}}}. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. ''

The result of the proposal was '''no consensus to move'''.--[[User:Fuhghettaboutit|Fuhghettaboutit]] 01:45, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
== Requested move ==
[[American wine]] → [[USA wine ]] — No need to use a '[[Use_of_the_word_American#Political-cultural_views|difficult]]' word for an article name when there's a perfectly good neutral alternative [[User:FlagSteward|FlagSteward]] 11:44, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

===Survey===
I suggest you should read the (short) article section [[Use_of_the_word_American#Political-cultural_views]] and ideally [[WP:BIAS]] before commenting. It would also be useful to declare your nationality.
:''Add &nbsp;<tt><nowiki># '''Support'''</nowiki></tt>&nbsp; or &nbsp;<tt><nowiki># '''Oppose'''</nowiki></tt>&nbsp; on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. Please remember that this is [[Wikipedia:Polling is not a substitute for discussion|not a vote]]; comments must include reasons to carry weight.''

*'''Support''' As above - "USA Wine" is a more accurate and much more neutral name. [[User:FlagSteward|FlagSteward]] (UK) 11:46, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
*'''Opppose'''. The current name is commonly used with the meaning "wine from the United States". It has 10x as many Ghits as "USA wine", and many of the hits for "USA wine" are spurious (e.g. USA and wine are separated by punctuation). "USA" is not usually used as an adjective. You cite bias above; I assume that the articles you are concerned about talk about wine from Argentina, Chile, and Canada. I understand your argument, but the proposed title doesn't seem to me to be the right way to solve the issue. [[User:Dekimasu|Dekimasu]]<font color="darkgreen"><small>[[User talk:Dekimasu|よ!]]</small></font> 12:01, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' as per [[Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names)]]. While it may not be the best of all possible names "American Wine" is in common usage, a claim that can not be made for the proposed "USA wine". --''[[User: Allen3|Allen3]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Allen3|talk]]</sup> 12:22, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' American is commonly used to name people from the USA. I think it is pretty obvious for anyone that reads it that American is from the US. Besides, there is no other proper adjective to describe people from the USA in the ENglish language. There are in other languages, but not in ENglish.--[[User:Charleenmerced|<font color="Blue">'''Char'''</font><font color="Red">'''leen'''</font><font color="Green">'''mer'''</font><font color="Blue">'''ced'''</font>]] <font color = "blue"><sup>''[[User talk:Charleenmerced | Talk]]''</sup></font> 13:41, 11 April 2007 (UTC)Charleenmerced
*'''Oppose''' Although I agree with the idea that USA Wine is a more neutral name, when one is looking for a Chilean wine, Argentinian Wine, Canadian Wine etc. they don't think American wine, they think of the names of those countries. American is the generic term used for people from the United States and that is the general naming convention of the wine from this country as well. Depending on your view, books would label it differently but if Wikipedia is garnering more hits for American Wine over USA Wine then that means more searchers agree with that name. If perchance it was changed then there needs to be a redirect because American Wine other than referring to wine from the United States is pretty unheard of as a generic term to describe all of North and South America. As always there is room for convincing me otherwise.--[[User:Tanner-Christopher|Christopher Tanner, CCC]] 17:16, 11 April 2007 (UTC)tanner-christopher
*'''Oppose''' Wikipedia isn't meant to change the names of things. Wine produced in the United States is commonly called "American wine"; that's how Wikipedia should refer to it. [[User:Mcferran|Noel S McFerran]] 17:26, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' This is by far the most common name for the area. As Chris noted above, if people are speaking about different countries you will hear them talk about "Chilean wine", "Canadian wine", etc. As a side note, I know my Canadian friends would be downright insulted if they were called American and their wines considered "American wine". If you say that phrase to them, they (like most in the world) will know exactly what you mean. [[User:Agne27 |Agne]][[Special:Contributions/Agne27|<sup>Cheese</sup>]]/[[User Talk:Agne27|<sup>Wine</sup>]] 18:57, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' "USA wine" is not English; whether some other English phrase should be substituted for the present title is another question. [[User:Pmanderson|Septentrionalis]] <small>[[User talk:Pmanderson|PMAnderson]]</small> 00:14, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' I do wish that there was another adjective to describe items from the U.S., however "American" is really the only one. When it comes to win, "American wine" is a more common name and more freely flowing description than "USA Wine". --- [[User:Bethling |<font color="#BB45AA">The Bethling</font>]][[User Talk:Bethling|<sup>(Talk)</sup>]] 01:16, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' this proposal but would support '''Wine of the United States''' or '''Wine from the United States''' per [[WP:BIAS]]. (''cf.'' [[Wine from the United Kingdom]], the other state name that doesn't easily become an adjective). — <span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;">[[User talk:AjaxSmack|<font style="color:#fef;background:navy;">'''&nbsp;AjaxSmack&nbsp;'''</font>]]</span> 06:07, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
::Actually [[Wine from the United Kingdom]] is the odd duck and inconsistent with other regional country articles. Take a look at the articles linked to [[List of wine producing countries]]. With the exception of the UK, all of them follow the XXXX wine format. Rather then try and create more inconsistency, we should probably be thinking how to get [[Wine from the United Kingdom]] more consistent with the naming format. The article itself seems to suggest that [[English wine]] would be a better title. [[User:Agne27 |Agne]][[Special:Contributions/Agne27|<sup>Cheese</sup>]]/[[User Talk:Agne27|<sup>Wine</sup>]] 19:06, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' per [[User:Pmanderson]] and [[User:AjaxSmack]]. "[[Wine in the United States]]" or "[[Wines of the United States]]" seem like reasonable titles for articles, but is this article either of them? --[[User:Quuxplusone|Quuxplusone]] 02:33, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - in wine shops it might be American wines, or more commonly Californian wines, but never, ''never'', USA wine. [[User:TerriersFan|TerriersFan]] 22:32, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

===Discussion===
:''Add any additional comments:''
*It doesn't have to be an adjective - there's lots of wine region articles where the name is used instead of an adjective, for instance [[Alsace wine]] rather than Alsatian wine. I could live with [[US wines]] instead, US is a more common adjective but has some accuracy and bias issues of its own. I can live with having American wine as a redirect, as Alsatian wine is now.
*I'd be a bit wary of trying Google popularity games, as they will inevitably suffer from the same unwitting [[WP:BIAS]] that has been demonstrated so far in this discussion. But I would note that searches for "American wine" will be inflated by hits for "South American wine" etc.
Certainly on this side of the pond, you will tend to find US wine used more often than "American wine", for instance in the title of [http://www.decanter.com/news/61731.html this Decanter article] - and in fact merchants tend to use country/continent names such as "USA", "North America" (eg Berrys) or "California" etc (J&B, the Wine Society)
* I'll say it again - read [[Use_of_the_word_American#Political-cultural_views]] before making off-the-cuff comments about things being "obvious" to a non-US audience.
[[User:FlagSteward|FlagSteward]] 17:00, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
:As a point of reference, wine regions in the United States are known as [[American Viticultural Area]] (AVA). It is obviously a common and natural association that ''American'' wines are produced in ''American'' Viticultural Areas. [[User:Agne27 |Agne]][[Special:Contributions/Agne27|<sup>Cheese</sup>]]/[[User Talk:Agne27|<sup>Wine</sup>]] 19:05, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
::That doesn't prove anything, as it's demonstrating the same local POV bias. If it had been a Chilean calling them AVAs, or a Guyanian, I'd be much more impressed. Just because the US calls a local sports competition the World Series doesn't mean that North America now = the World. And no, letting a few Canucks in does not make it a truly global competition ;-/ - we even let them play in the Cricket World Cup.... ;-/ [[User:FlagSteward|FlagSteward]] 18:56, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
:::No, it demonstrates the '''worldwide''' acceptance of American as a descriptor for wines from the US. If Chileans, Argentinians, Mexicans, Canadians etc objected to the US usage then you would have heard of it by now. But the acceptance has been beyond reproach in the wine community. Hence the perfect application of [[WP:COMMONNAME]]. It is [[WP:OR|OR-ish]] to try and introduce uncommon names to a title that is not in dispute in the wine world. [[User:Agne27 |Agne]][[Special:Contributions/Agne27|<sup>Cheese</sup>]]/[[User Talk:Agne27|<sup>Wine</sup>]] 19:10, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
::::But US wine is not an uncommon name - I've demonstrated it being used as an article title in perhaps the leading English-language wine magazine outside the USA. Thus given the problems with "American" I think there's a clear case under [[Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_%28common_names%29#Do_not_overdo_it]] - that snowball is looking prettry chilled ;-/ I'd rather have USA wine as it's more accurate, but I'll accept that that's looking too ambitious now. I'll say again, I'm quite happy to alter the move to [[US wine]], or [[Wine from the United States]] for consistency with the UK article, or [[Wine of the United States]] for consistency with the general Wiki naming rules, and in all cases [[American wine]] would be a redirect. I'm not trying to be wilful here, I genuinely think that this is a problematic name and that most of the opposition comes from people within the United States whose systemic bias prevents objectivity. Views from elsewhere on the globe would be particularly welcome - I think that snowball is still looking chilly. ;-/ [[User:FlagSteward|FlagSteward]] 19:57, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
*Ok, I think this discussion should be closed already since there is only one supporting member and a number of opposing ones.--[[User:Charleenmerced|<font color="Blue">'''Char'''</font><font color="Red">'''leen'''</font><font color="Green">'''mer'''</font><font color="Blue">'''ced'''</font>]] <font color = "blue"><sup>''[[User talk:Charleenmerced | Talk]]''</sup></font> 17:19, 13 April 2007 (UTC)Charleenmerced
**Doesn't work like that Charleen - it's a formal rename, so the Wiki gods give it 5 days and then they make a decision. And you can't just do it by numbers, as they will be systemically biased to a massive degree - which is what the original rename meant to counter. FWIW I'm quite happy to go with AjaxSmack's idea of [[Wine from the United States]] by analogy with the UK article, or with [[US wine]] for consistency with just about all the other national wine articles. Having a "United States" without the America bit is not ideal from a neutrality POV, as there are other countries that are united states, but anything along those lines is much, much better than the massively biased [[American wine]]. And I still haven't heard any arguments against something like "US wine" or "Wine from the United States" as a primary article name, with American wine as a redirect, other than 'that's what it is at the moment' ;-/ [[User:FlagSteward|FlagSteward]] 18:56, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
***A discussion can be cut short under some conditions. See [[WP:SNOWBALL]]. I think it is clear that this applies with regard to this request. [[User:Gentgeen|Gentgeen]] 19:24, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
* On the UK article point, the real problem is not that there's no adjective for the UK, it's that [[British wine]] is legally defined as wine that originates outside the UK (!) So you have English wine and Welsh wine, so that article currently covers both [[English and Welsh wine]]. Logically I suppose it has the potential to cover [[English, Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish wine]] as 4 distinct entities - [[Wine from the United Kingdom]] may not be elegant, but it is better than some of those alternatives ;-/ I can see an argument for Wikifying the title into [[Wine of the United Kingdom]], but [[English wine]] is inappropriate - we'll just have to live with that one as a special case. At the same time it does set a precedent for [[Wine from the United States]] OTOH. [[User:FlagSteward|FlagSteward]] 19:57, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the {{{type|proposal}}}. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.</div><!-- Template:pollbottom -->

I'd just like to add that I disagree with the closing statement of "no consensus to move". I think it should be noted that instead, a consensus was reached '''not to move''' to the proposed title. The difference is subtle, but important. [[User:Gentgeen|Gentgeen]] 02:04, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
:Indeed there is strong consensus ''not to move'', and the distinction is not lost on me—in fact, I considered something very similar given the overwhelming opinion expressed. However, the instructions given at [[WP:RM#Processing move requests]] are quite clear that 'if the decision is not to move the article, then the move request is closed as a "no consensus".' I am not inflexible but there may have been good reason (buried somewhere in the talk page archives) for this instruction, and anyone can simply ''read the text'' to see what the consensus was. So since I see no harm that can come of following the letter of the instructions in this case, I'm defaulting to them.--[[User:Fuhghettaboutit|Fuhghettaboutit]] 02:22, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

==Vinland==
Given the general understand among scholars is that "Vinland" either was not in reference to grape vines (see [[Vinland]]), that it was a mere lure to try to coax settlers into moving West (much as [[Erik the Red]] named his discover of ice and rock [[Greenland]], or that Leif Eriksen mistakenly identified foliage as grape vines, the assertion that American Wine dates back to the Viking Era must be removed. I'm going ahead and doing so, but I welcome anybody else's comments. [[Special:Contributions/24.20.60.216|24.20.60.216]] ([[User talk:24.20.60.216|talk]]) 08:32, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

==Thoughts on getting this up to a B article==
Overall this article is not in that bad of a shape but it does have some important sections missing or incomplete.
:*The most glaring absence is a lack of a summary about, at least, the major wine regions (California, Oregon, Washington, New York, maybe Virgina, Missouri, Michigan, etc).
:*Another major item is a summary section on the climate & geography. Yes, obviously the US is pretty vast and varied, but a description of major influences (Finger Lakes, Cascade Mountain rain shadow, San Fran Bay, etc) will give some context to the readers. :*The wine laws area could probably be merged into the three-tier distribution section.
:*A section on grapes, new world style wine, winemaking & viticulture could probably be consolidate into one section with a couple paragraph of unique details. [[User:Agne27 |Agne]][[Special:Contributions/Agne27|<sup>Cheese</sup>]]/[[User Talk:Agne27|<sup>Wine</sup>]] 01:19, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

==[[WP:FOOD|WikiProject Food and drink]] Tagging==
This article talk page was automatically added with {{tl|WikiProject Food and drink}} banner as it falls under [[:Category:Food]] or [[User:TinucherianBot/Autotagg/WPFOOD/Category:Foods|one of its subcategories]]. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. The bot was instructed to tagg these articles upon consenus from WikiProject Food and drink. You can find the related request for tagging [[User:TinucherianBot/Autotagg/WPFOOD#Request_5|here]] . Maximum caution and careful attention was done to avoid any wrongly tagging any categories , but mistakes may happen... If you have concerns , please inform the project members on the [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Food and drink|project talk page]] -- [[User:TinucherianBot|TinucherianBot]] ([[User talk:TinucherianBot|talk]]) 08:03, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

== Inconsistency with other wikipedia article ==

On the American wine page it says that Californian wine production is twice the size of Australia's. On the California wine page, however, it states that Californian wine production is a third larger than that of Australia's. [[Special:Contributions/12.210.148.134|12.210.148.134]] ([[User talk:12.210.148.134|talk]]) 04:56, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

==Attribution notes==
Some of the content in the '''Fighting varietal''' section is from the merged stub [[Fighting varietal]]. [[User:Agne27 |Agne]][[Special:Contributions/Agne27|<sup>Cheese</sup>]]/[[User Talk:Agne27|<sup>Wine</sup>]] 19:35, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

== Inacurate Statistics: Perpetuating the West coast wine myth ==

http://www.ttb.gov/statistics/2009_wine_calendar_year.pdf

As you can see New York is clearly number two in wine production producing over 5 time that of Oregon. Clearly the editors of this article are west coasters.

New York wine is a major player both in quality and production. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/12.236.234.2|12.236.234.2]] ([[User talk:12.236.234.2|talk]]) 14:06, 21 October 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Well, New York was mentioned as one of four states in the second sentence so it was not forgotten. Since New York was #2 in production in 2009, I reordered them to be mentioned in order of decreasing production. However, with 634 out of a total of 711 million gallons produced in California, and Washington & Oregon in places #3 & 4 supplying 30 out of 77 million non-Californian gallons, the West Coast dominance of US wine production is fairly massive. [[User:Tomas e|Tomas e]] ([[User talk:Tomas e|talk]]) 14:43, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 18:18, 21 September 2024

Wine in the United States

[edit]

Ɱ (talk · contribs) I support the page move, but per your category argument, shouldn't it be "Wine in the United States" rather than "of"? That would allow expansion of the article to further discuss consumption of wine, import of wine, etc.. in addition to just United States wine production. Mdewman6 (talk) 20:00, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps, or perhaps it should be a separate article, especially if/when this article actually becomes decent. It seems an article just focusing on wine produced here is important, as Template:Wine by country has all other countries follow that pattern. (The only other one that now doesn't use a demonym is Wine from the United Kingdom, perhaps because "British" can imply just Britain.) ɱ (talk) 20:21, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Also will now match the Commonscat and other language versions. ɱ (talk) 20:29, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Okay. Well, all the other major wine producing countries followed the American Wine format, e.g. French Wine, Italian Wine, etc. with the present format as redirects. Not sure what format is best to follow. I understand the possibility of confusion that American could encompass more than just the US, but... hmmm. Mdewman6 (talk) 21:37, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but those countries simply don't have ambiguity with those names. That is why the UK and now US use a slightly different format, paralleled by Commons and other language versions. ɱ (talk) 21:39, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We should do the same for the French wine, Spanish wine, and Italian wine industries as well. Make it more uniform, Wine of France, Wine of Spain, and Wine of Italy. 2601:8C2:8080:1BC0:4143:A0A1:9658:252F (talk) 03:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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