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{{Talk header}}
==Archives==
{{ITN talk|27 February|2010|oldid1=346690123}}
* [[Talk:Thaksin Shinawatra/Archive 1|Archive 1]]
{{WikiProject banner shell|blp=yes|class=B|vital=yes|listas=Shinawatra, Thaksin|1=

{{WikiProject Biography|politician-work-group=yes|politician-priority=high}}
==Summarizing the Article==
{{WikiProject Thailand|importance=High}}
I recently disputed the content of the article with Patiwat a couple of days ago on his user page. Reflecting on it, the reason I had so much trouble with the thing is that it is simply too long, making it filled with various innuendoes from both sides. I shortened the article (mostly cut and paste... too sleepy at the moment) and arranged it in chronological order.
{{WikiProject Southeast Asia|importance=High}}

{{WikiProject Business|importance=Low}}
The following is my proposed article. I do believe that it is fair for both sides; however, I personally loath Thaksin and you guys might want to check it over. I hope this isn't too much of a change. If you like it, please use it. (Forgive any errors, I'm just too sleepy)
{{WikiProject Politics|importance=High}}

}}
===Thaksin Shinawatra===
{{Archive box|search=yes|
Thaksin Shinawatra (Thai: ทักษิณ ชินวัตร, IPA: [tʰáksǐn tɕʰinnawát] (help•info); born July 26, 1949), Thai politician, is the current caretaker prime minister of Thailand and the leader of the Thai Rak Thai party. Before entering politics Thaksin was the founder of Shin Corporation, which included Advanced Info Service (AIS), the largest mobile phone operator. He was one of the wealthy individuals in Thailand. He is married to Khunying Potjaman Shinawatra (Damapong) and has three children: Panthongtae, Pinthongtha and Praethongtharn.
* [[Talk:Thaksin Shinawatra/Archive 1|Archive 1]] <small>(Feb 2005–April 2006)</small>
===Early Career===
* [[Talk:Thaksin Shinawatra/Archive 2|Archive 2]] <small>(May 2006–Nov 2008)</small>
Thaksin attended the Thai Police Cadet Academy and joined the Royal Thai Police Department in 1973. He later went on to obtain a master's degree in criminal justice from the Eastern Kentucky University in the United States in 1975. In 1978 he received a doctorate in criminal justice at Sam Houston State University in Texas and was later appointed Deputy Superintendent of the Policy and Planning Sub-division, General Staff Division, Metropolitan Police Bureau.
}}
Thaksin quit the police force in 1980 and ventured into various businesses. Overall, most were failures and he was heavily in debt. However, his fortune changed in 1982 when he profited from telecommunication investments. Shinawatra Computer and Communications Group was founded in 1987. In 1990, Thaksin made a daring but successful bid for a 20-billion baht, 20-year concession to operate the Thaicom Satellite.

*You seem to have erased the few paragraphs on his family's business and political background in Chiang Mai. I believe that some mention of his Chiang Mai roots is very important - after all, the North is his undisputed power base, and it is important to mention how that came to be. His highschool should also be mentioned - it is, after all, one of the most prestigous schools in the North. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 08:12, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

*Even if Thaksin never entered politics, he would still be remembered as one of Thailand's the most successful entrepreneurs and a key figure in the growth of Thailand's fast growing telecom sector. Devoting just 3 sentences to his business career is inappropriate. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 08:15, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

**You suggest shortening his business background to: "Thaksin quit the police force in 1980 and ventured into various businesses. Overall, most were failures and he was heavily in debt. However, his fortune changed in 1982 when he profited from telecommunication investments." I would prefer to be more specific here: mention what ventures were failures, and what was the investment that actually made him successful. It wasn't the satellite business - that has been one of the worst performers in the SCC portfolio. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 08:21, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

===Political Career===
===Political Debut (1994)===
Thaksin joined Palang Dharma Party (PDP) in 1994 was appointed Foreign Minister that year. After joining the Cabinet, the Parliament approved amendments to the Constitution (specifically, Article 114) that prohibited ministers from receiving state concessions[5]. This prompted his resignation only after 3 months in office.
The PDP soon withdrew from the government over the Sor Por Kor 4-01 land reform corruption scandal, causing the government of Chuan Leekpai to collapse[8][9].

===Leadership and Collapse of the PDP (1995-1996)===
Chamlong Srimuang, then the leader of the PDP, retired from politics and positioned Thaksin as its new leader. After the 1995 election, the PDP joined the government under Banharn Silpa-acha and Thaksin was appointed Deputy Prime Minister in charge of Bangkok traffic. The PDP pulled out of the Banharn-government in August 1996 and gave evidence pointing to allegations of the government’s corruption in a subsequent no-confidence debate. Soon afterwards, Banharn dissolved Parliament in September 1996.

Thaksin announced that he would not run in the subsequent November 1996 elections, but would remain as leader of the PDP. Some speculated that Thaksin wanted to resign from the party leadership [17][18]. The PDP suffered a fatal defeat in the elections, prompting resignation of most party members including Thaksin. Currently the PDP is still in existence but remained insignificant in the political arena.

*I believe the internal divisions in the PDP (which preceeded Thaksin's entry into politics and continued while he was PDP leader), as well as the frustrations he saw as leader of the PDP, had a big role in his current-day style of political management. The PDP failed because its internal divisions got in the way of developing and implementing a clear policy agenda; whereas the TRT centralizes many functions and any internal factional divisions (with the Wang Nam Yen faction, for instance) have not had any manjor impact on its overall policy agenda. Without describing in greater detail the challenges he faced as PDP leader, this evolution in styles of political management can not be seen. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 08:36, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

===Asian Financial Crisis (1997)===
On 15 August 1997, Thaksin was invited to become Deputy Prime Minister in Chavalit Yongchaiyudh's government after the Thai Baht was devalued in 2 July 1997, sparking the Asian Financial Crisis. During an unsuccessful censure debate on 27 September 1997, Democrat MP Suthep Thaugsuban accused Thaksin of cashing in on insider information about the government's decision to float the baht[20]. Nevertheless, skeptics pointed out that Thaksin's business empire suffered much less from the devaluation than rival companies.[24] He held this position for only 3 months before Chavalit dissolved the parliament in November that same year.

===Thai Rak Thai Party and Rise to Power (1998-2001)===

Thaksin founded the Thai Rak Thai ("Thais Love Thais" - TRT) party in 1998 advocating a populist platform. After the fall of the Chuan-government in 2001, the TRT won a sweeping victory in the January 2001 elections. It was the first time in Thai democratic history that a single party had won a governing mandate.

===Prime Minister of Thailand (2001-Present?)===
As Prime Minister, Thaksin Shinawatra initiated many distinctive policies affecting the economy, public health, education, energy, drugs, and international relations. Some view his policies as being very effective and popular with the majority of the Thai people, resulting in two landslide re-election victories. However, his government have been plagued with allegations of dictatorship, demagogy, corruption, conflicts of interest, human rights offences, acting undiplomatically, and use of legal loopholes.

===Economic and health policies===
See also: Policies of the Thaksin government#Economic and health policies
See also: Thaksinomics

Thaksin's government has designed its policies to appeal to the impoverished majority, together called Thaksinomics, Many feel that these populist policies are responsible for bringing about Thailand's economic recovery from the 1997 Asian Financial Crisis. Critics, however, charged that Thaksinomics is little more than a Keynesian-style economic stimulus policy re-branded as something new and revolutionary.

===Anti-drug policies===
See also: Policies of the Thaksin government#Anti-drug policies
Narcotics have been perceived as a problem of grave importance in Thailand and, in response, Thaksin initiated a series of effective but highly controversial policies aimed to eradicate drugs in 3 months. The policy advocated ruthless implementation and over the next seven weeks press reports indicate that around 2,700 people were killed. However, the Government claimed that only around 50 of the deaths were at the hands of the police in self-defense. Human rights critics say a much larger proportion were targets of extrajudicial execution. After a growing international concern the killings became more infrequent. Thaksin's popularity increased substantially despite some public revulsion and Thailand was from the list of major drug-transit or major drug-producing countries in September, 2004[36]. However, the overall success of the policy is still being contested.

*This doesn't mention any other anti-drug policies. It wouldn't be appropriate to give the impression that Thaksin's only anti-drug effort was his "ruthless" program. Several other policies were implemented (e.g., White schools, border closures, etc.) - they just weren't effective. Thaksin didn't take a knife to drug-dealers because it was the only thing he could think of, but because nothing else was working.

===Education policies===
See also: Policies of the Thaksin government#Education policies

Thaksin implemented a series of revolutionary but highly controversial series of educational reforms during his government. Chief among those reforms was school decentralization which met with massive widespread opposition from Thailand's 700,000 teachers, who would be deprived of their status as civil servants[38]. There was also widespread fear from teachers that TAOs lack the skills and capabilities required to manage schools. In the face of massive teacher protests and threats of school closure[39], Thaksin compromised and gave teachers affected teachers two years to transfer to other schools. The issue was extremely controversial.

Thaksin also reformed the state university screening system by putting more emphasis on senior high-school grades in stead of the national university entrance examination scores. This change was strongly attacked by many, especially in the academic circle[41]. He also initiated the Income Contingency Loan program to make student loans available for vocational and university education.

*The potential benefits of educational decentralization have been proposed for decades among academics, but isn't mentioned at all. Given this issue was so controversial, the reader is left with the question of why Thaksin even pushed the policy in the first place if it was so unpopular with teachers. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 19:42, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

*Thaksin's heavy investments in education were one of his most popular policies - that is why the Opposition is so angry with his recent plan to dish out more scholarships in the election interegnum. The nature of his investments in education should be given more detail.

===Energy policies===
Thaksin speculated that partially privatized, largely self-regulated monopoly utilities would work as economic powerhouses, providing profits to the treasury and private investors alike. This led to his privatization policies being strongly criticized on grounds that they offer little protection to consumers and ample opportunities for conflicts of interest.
On September 2001, the National Energy Policy Office (NEPO) approved the partial listing of PTT, the state-owned oil and gas company[43]. PTT became the largest company by market capitalization upon listing in the Stock Exchange of Thailand (SET) and greatly benefited from the global increase in world-wide oil prices. However, anti-Thaksin critics have claimed that PTT's bull run was due to manipulation by Thaksin[44]. There were also allegations that the majority of the PTT shares for sale had been reserved for politicians.

Thaksin has also repeatedly attempted to privatize the Electricity Generating Authority of Thailand (EGAT). One of the goals of the privatization was to raise THB 42 billion from an IPO and use the funds to invest in three new natural-gas powered power plants. However, EGAT's privatization was abruptly delayed when some NGOs and some Union members filed a petition with the Supreme Court a few days before the scheduled listing[46]. On 23 March 2006, the Supreme Administrative Court ruled against the privatization of EGAT PLC, citing conflicts of interest, public hearing irregularities, and the continued right of expropriating public land[47][48]. The ruling led to union leaders and anti-Thaksin protestors calling for the renationalization of other previously privatized state enterprises[50][51].

===Southern Thailand Insurgency===
See also: South Thailand insurgency
A resurgence in violence began in 2001 in the three southern provinces of Thailand. There is much controversy about the causes of this escalation of the decades long insurgency. Attacks after 2001 concentrated on police, the military, and schools, but civilians have also been targets. Thaksin has been widely criticized for his management of the situation, in particular the storming of the Krue Se Mosque, the deaths of civilians at Tak Bai, and the unsolved kidnapping of Muslim-lawyer Somchai Neelapaijit. In March 2005, Thaksin established the National Reconciliation Commission, chaired by respected former Prime Minister Anand Panyarachun to oversee efforts to bring peace to the troubled South. The Commission has yet to submit a final report on the situation.

===Foreign Policies===
On foreign policy, Thaksin has said that "Thailand requires a progressive foreign policy that firmly supports its domestic counterpart"[60], forcing diplomats to endorse domestic economic programs. This policy has been fiercely attacked by various prominent career diplomats, calling it "demeaning" and did little to enhance Thailand's global stature[61].

Thaksin has also initiated negotiations for several free trade agreements (FTA) with China, Australia, Bahrain, India, and the USA that came under criticism[62].
In a highly controversial move, Thailand joined George W. Bush's multinational coalition in the invasion of Iraq, sending a 423-strong humanitarian contingent. It withdrew the last of its troops on 10 September 2004. Thaksin has also announced that Thailand would forsake foreign aid, and work with donor countries to assist in the development of neighbors, especially in the Greater Mekong Sub-region[63].

*Never before has the foreign policy of a standing Thai Prime Minister been as fierce a target for criticism among diplomats as Thaksin's. The Jayanamas and Kasit Pirom were the elite of Thai diplomacy; yet their public attacks were distinctly undiplomatic. What provoked them to such passion? It wasn't just the FTAs and supporting GWB. The summarized version you've suggested doesn't give any insight at all to the causes of the fierce struggle going on in Thai foreign relations. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 19:49, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

===Other criticisms===
There have also been complaints that Thaksin has been stacking the civil service and independent commissions with his relatives and business associates [70] [71] [72][73]. He was also accused of lobbying to remove Lady Jaruvan Maintaka from the position of Auditor General[74].

Respected former Thai ambassador to the UN Asda Jayanama has claimed that Thaksin's two state visits to India were made in order to negotiate a satellite deal for Shin Corporation. However, no evidence for this claim has been yet put forth.

===2005 Election===
He was re-elected in the February 2005 elections in spite of allegations of widespread corruption in his administration. TRT won a landslide victory, with his Thai Rak Thai party sweeping 374 out of 500 seats in Parliament. The extensive publicity that Thaksin received on television in the aftermath of the Indian Ocean tsunami is cited as an important factor in this election. However, in the southern region, still being plagued by separatist insurgencies, Thaksin's party only managed to win one seat. It is also notable that the region is the area directly affected by the tsunami.

===Political crisis of 2005-2006===
See also: Thailand political crisis 2005-2006

===Accusations by Sondhi Limthongkul===
The tense political situation was catalyzed by various accusations by Sondhi Limthongkul, owner of the Phoochatkarn Daily newspaper. Sondhi started to hold almost weekly city hall forums in late 2005 to voice his charges and concerns. The gatherings were small at first but became larger gradually. The people participated also adopted the yellow color to show their allegiance to HMS King Bhumibol Adulyadej.

===Sale of Shin Corporation===
Main article :Thaksin Shinawatra $1.88 billion deal controversy
On Monday, January 23, 2006, three days after new Thai Telecommunication Act (2006) passed on Friday January 20, the Shinawatra family sold their entire stake in Shin Corporation to Temasek Holdings. The family netted about 73 billion baht (about US$1.88 billion) tax-free from the sale, exploiting a regulation that individuals (as opposed to corporations) who sell shares on the stock exchange pay no capital gains tax.

The Thailand Securities and Exchange Commission investigated the transaction and found that Thaksin's son, Panthongtae, violated rules with regard to information disclosure and public tender offers in transactions between 2000 and 2002[81]. Panthongtae was fined 6 million THB (about 150,000USD) [82]. The SEC moved to clear Thaksin of the charges pertaining to the deal.
The transaction made the Thaksin the target of accusations that he sold an asset of national importance to a foreign entity[84][85]. Supporters, however, counter that the complete sale of Shin Corporation by the Shinawatra-Damapong families had been a long-standing demand of some public groups[88], as it would allow Thaksin to undertake his duties as Prime Minister without accusations of conflicts of interest.

===House Dissolution===
Thaksin announced a House dissolution on 24 February 2006, in a bid to end the political crisis triggered by the sale of Shin Corporation. General elections were scheduled for 2 April. Thaksin was widely criticized for calling the snap elections [108]. The opposition Democrat, Chart Thai and Mahachon parties announced a boycott of the election on 27 February. [107]."

===Formation of the PAD===
Thaksin, as an interim prime minister faced growing pressure to resign and in mid-February 2006 anti-Thaksin protestors formed the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) and mobilized the first organized group of protestors since 1992. The PAD drew a large number of middle-class residents of the capital. Sondhi Limthongkul was a prominent leader of the protests. The group also included prominent socialites (dubbed the "Blue Blood Jet Set" by the Bangkok Post) and members of the Thai royal family[89], the Santi Asoke Buddhist sect (led by Thaksin's former mentor Chamlong Srimuang) and state enterprise employees. Protestors camped for months outside the Government House in Bangkok. The most notable demands was for Thaksin to resign from his post so that the King could appoint another interim prime minister.

===A Nation Divided===
The protests were divisive. The Dharmakaya Buddhist sect came out in support of Thaksin. Massive pro-Thaksin rallies were mobilized from northern and north-eastern provinces, some bringing him thousands of red roses. The most notable of these groups was “The Poor People Caravan”, riding farming vehicles to Bangkok. Overall this led to the crisis being protrayed as a conflict between the urban middle-class and the rural poor. The conflict prompted several members of King Bhumibol Adulyadej's Privy Council asked protestors to seek a peaceful resolution to the situation.

===2006 Election Results===
Unofficial results as of 3 April 2006 showed that the TRT received 16 million votes cast nationwide, with 10 million abstentions and invalid ballots, but with the abstention ("no-vote") option outweighing TRT support in many constituencies in the capital and the South. Thaksin had earlier promised to not accept the premiership if TRT received less than half of the total vote[99]. After an audience with King Bhumipol, Thaksin announced on April 4, 2006 that he would not accept the post of Prime Minister after the Parliament reconvenes despite getting more than half the votes. Thaksin positioned himself as Caretaker Prime Minister but delegated his functions to Caretaker Deputy Prime Minister Chidchai Wannasathit. [111] [112][113]

This election also resulted in the fact that while the TRT Party have the majority in the Govenment, it was unable to form a government because some parliamentary seats remained unfilled due to not enough votes for ratification. The Election Commission held by-elections in 40 constituencies[93] on April 23[94]. Some of the seats still remained empty. The Election Commission scheduled yet another by-election on 29 April but was halted by the Constitution Court.

===Royal Intervention===
The King gave a speech on 26 April to newly appointed judges of the Thai Supreme Court stating that a royal appointment of an unelected prime minister would be undemocratic. He asked the court to handle the existing conflicts. On 8 May 2006, the Constitution Court ruled 8-6 to invalidate the April election and ordered a new election to be held. The Court also demanded the resignation of the Election Commissioners. The Law Society of Thailand filed a suit with the Supreme Administrative Court stating that Thaksin's transfer of power to Chidchai was illegal[118].

== Balance ==

I´m not sure that this article is as balanced as it could be. I have removed references to "unabashed populism" and keynesian fiscal "pump-priming" (although in the first case I´m not sure that my new text is completely balanced itself). However I still have a feeling that the article is more negative about Thaksin than it should be. I can´t put my finger on it though and of course one can never properly distinuish between reality and ones subjective perspective. Obviously the whole issue is very controversial with protests centred along class lines so it is difficult to find the balance. I think it needs people with fresh eyes to look it over. what do others think? [[User:Pugsworth|Pugsworth]] 12:13, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

:I agree that "unabashedly populist" doesn't sound very neutral (it seems to suggest that populism is something that people should have to apologize for). But replacing it with "designed its policies to appeal to the impoverished majority" seems a bit, well, unbalanced as well. Thailand has a lot of poor people, but only 20% were below the poverty line before Thaksin became PM (~10% after). And policies like universal healthcare and killing all the drug dealers weren't aimed specifically at the poor - they were aimed at the majority, period. How about simply "[[populism|populist]]" with a link to the wikipedia article on [[populism]]. Any controversies about the validity of populism as an economic/political platform can be more specifically addressed in the article on populism. Any question about the details of the populist policies themselves are dealt with in the article body. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 17:14, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

::To me even the label ´populist´ by itself still carries a negative connotation, due to the fact that it is often used to critise political opponents. I think the link to wikipedia´s populism article is helpful but don´t feel it entirely resolves the problem. The question for me is who is applying this label? I don´t think the term is neutral enough for wikipedia to use without a reference. Has Thaksin applied the term to himself? if so, then say so, this would be the best solution. If not then I think the term should be appear attributed to his critics in the relevant paragraph. I´ve just noticed the term also appears two paragraphs down "The Nation newspaper called Thaksin's populist platform "a revolution in Thai public policy"[32]." again not attributed elsewhere and appears to be entirely unnecessary in this context. If the policies were aimed the majority, period, then remove the word ´impoverished´ this leaves the same meaning without the value judgement. PS sorry if the unilateral editing goes against protocol, I´m new to all this. [[User:Pugsworth|Pugsworth]] 12:21, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

:::An earlier paragraph begins "Critics, however, charge that Thaksinomics is '''little more than a Keynesian-style economic stimulus policy re-branded as something new and revolutionary.'''" For balance, it should be noted that a reputable newspaper did call Thaksin's policies revolutionary. Whether it was revolutionary or not, I don't know. But some people think it is - and some don't. And Wikipedia needs to aknowledge both. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 20:09, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

:::Sorry, but I haven't been able to sort through a lot of old campaign material to see if Thaksin/TRT called its own policy platform "populist". It should be noted, however, that it isn't just The Nation calling Thaksin populist. Reputable sources world-wide having been calling him that. Just try googling "Thaksin populist" and see how many websites you get. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 05:43, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

:::Could we please get some references for figures on poverty reduction. I noticed there is a reference to Thaksin's economic policies being effective in poverty reduction in the body without any reference. I'm not challenging the effectiveness of Thaksin's policies, but a 10% poverty rate (which Patiwat mentions) is too low, as that figure would put Thailand on par with advanced industrialized countries! [[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]] 14:28, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

::::I referenced a Sydney Morning Herald article. The footnote is right there (no. 29); I'm not sure why you can't see it. That statistics has also been noted by the Council for Foreign Relations (http://www.cfr.org/publication/10315/) and the New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/cfr/world/slot2_040206.html). [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 20:16, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

::::From the World Bank report by Dr. Kirida Bhaopichitr: "Incidence of poverty in terms of headcount has fallen from 21.3 percent in 2000 (14.2 percent in 2000 based on the old poverty line) to 11.3 percent in 2004. This decline was mainly contributed by the reduction in the number of poor in the Northeast."[http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:QEPTH1dpw9YJ:siteresources.worldbank.org/INTTHAILAND/Resources/Economic-Monitor/2005nov-econ-full-report.pdf+&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=13] This seemed a bit too wordy for the article (and there are many complaints that the article is too long), so I shortened it down. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 20:33, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

::::That doesn't seem necessarily implausible. Criteria for defining 'poverty' vary, but are often relative- that used in the UK, IIRC, is half the average income. It's quite possible that since the average income in Thailand is low, only 10% of the population have half (or some other percentage) of ''that''. [[User:Henry Flower|Henry]][[User talk:Henry Flower|<sup>Flower</sup>]] 14:39, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

:::::Interesting. I'm more familiar with absolute definitions of poverty. In the US, I believe the poverty line is defined against a consuption basket that is assumed to be able to feed a family of four. Especially since Thailand is a poor country, it makes far more sense to define poverty on absolute terms. Also, for poverty to fall using the relative definition, it would require a fall in income inequility, and from what I understand, income inequality has not decreased in Thailand during the last five years. [[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]] 15:09, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

::::::Not really. It is not without reason that Thaksin is called a populist. From the World Bank report, the Gini coefficient of income inequality fell from 2000 (last year of Chuan 2). We're almost, but not quite, back to where we were at the end of Chuan 1! The article is long enough, as many have noted. Do you think Thaksin's reduction of income inequality is important enough to deserve mention in the article? [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 20:47, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

::::Back in college, I was told that Thailand officially defined poverty as the minimum income required to purchase a basket of goods and services, among them a 2000 calorie/day diet. I'm not sure what standardized definition the World Bank used in their statistics, or whether they use the Thai definition, or whether the Thai definition has been refined over the years. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 20:22, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

:Even as a trained economist, I've always found the term "pump priming" term strange. It sounds so esoteric; by intellectual economists, for intellectual economists. The new edit turns this into "[[Keynesian]] [[fiscal]] policy", which also has its issues. The 2 links aren't that informative, and it doesn't tell someone who doesn't know economics what the policy is all about. Why not call it "[[Keynesian economics#Active fiscal policy|Keynesian-style economic stimulus policy]]" with a link to the article on Keynesian active fiscal economic policy. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 17:14, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

::Your suggested wording here is good I´ve put it in, however it does lead us to the problem that describing something as Keynesian or keynesian in disguise is not a criticism in itself unless you assume the value judgement that keynesianism is a bad policy - presumably not a position that wikipedia would take. Thus I think we need something to say why critics thought keynesianism was bad in this context.

::Also I think the 4th paragraph in this section about the cabinets recent decison to susend the THB investment is irrelevant in an artcile about Thaksin and given the length of this article should be deleted or moved elsewhere.[[User:Pugsworth|Pugsworth]] 12:33, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

:::I included that paragraph to add some balance to the critique of Thaksin's economic policies. Critics (namely TDRI economist Somchai Jitsuchon) have claimed that Thaksin's economic policies had a marginal impact on the economy. But after a key Thaksin economic policy was suspended, economists have significantly dropped their growth estimates - implying that Thaksin's policies had a significant impact on the economy. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 20:02, 23 April 2006 (UTC)


==Length of article==
==Length of article==
Line 164: Line 19:
*I think maybe we should all focus on expanding the branch articles, and possible establishing some more new ones. From the history of this entry, I know several administrators do watch this entry on a regular basis. Any of them would like to weigh in on this matter? [[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]] 14:21, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
*I think maybe we should all focus on expanding the branch articles, and possible establishing some more new ones. From the history of this entry, I know several administrators do watch this entry on a regular basis. Any of them would like to weigh in on this matter? [[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]] 14:21, 23 April 2006 (UTC)


*Frankly, I do not think that Thailand's importance in the world has any relevance to how long the article is. Thaksin, through his policies and his actions, has been one of the most controversial Prime Ministers in Thai history. A controversial topic requires factual support for all key sides of the argument - and this requires material. I've already made several attempts to shorten things down significantly. If an abler editor is able to summarize this material in a more concise manner, while still retaining factuality and neutrality, then please go ahead. [[Be bold]]! Furthermore, Thaksin's career is a current event. Some of these events might be of historical importance, some not - but in the thick of things, it is pretty darn hard to judge. Right now, Thaksin is at a critical stage in his political career. Nobody is really sure what is going to happen 6 months from now on. In this situation, I've always felt it more important to err on the side of being factual and informative, rather than being brief and high-level. Things can always be moved or removed or edited if history or discussion among the editors deems that it is not relevant. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 21:17, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
*Frankly, I do not think that Thailand's importance in the world has any relevance to how long the article is. Thaksin, through his policies and his actions, has been one of the most controversial Prime Ministers in Thai history. A controversial topic requires factual support for all key sides of the argument - and this requires material. I've already made several attempts to shorten things down significantly. If an abler editor is able to summarize this material in a more concise manner, while still retaining factuality and neutrality, then please go ahead. [[Wikipedia:Be bold in updating pages|Be bold]]! Furthermore, Thaksin's career is a current event. Some of these events might be of historical importance, some not - but in the thick of things, it is pretty darn hard to judge. Right now, Thaksin is at a critical stage in his political career. Nobody is really sure what is going to happen 6 months from now on. In this situation, I've always felt it more important to err on the side of being factual and informative, rather than being brief and high-level. Things can always be moved or removed or edited if history or discussion among the editors deems that it is not relevant. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 21:17, 23 April 2006 (UTC)


*I'll be bold and say the article is not long enough. There are several topics which, in my opinion, absolutely need expansion.
*I'll be bold and say the article is not long enough. There are several topics which, in my opinion, absolutely need expansion.
Line 170: Line 25:
**Stacking independent comissions with his people. Again, second-hand allegations of this are noted in the article, but the only example given is Chaiyasit Shinawatra. What about Khunying Charuwan? What about the Constitution Court? What about the EC?
**Stacking independent comissions with his people. Again, second-hand allegations of this are noted in the article, but the only example given is Chaiyasit Shinawatra. What about Khunying Charuwan? What about the Constitution Court? What about the EC?
***I've finally added 2 sentences mentioning the Khunying Jaruvan controversy, as well as a link to her article. The reason this is mentioned at all is to substantiate the "complaints that Thaksin has been stacking the civil service and independent commissions with his buddies" criticism. I hope this doesn't make the article too long. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 03:00, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
***I've finally added 2 sentences mentioning the Khunying Jaruvan controversy, as well as a link to her article. The reason this is mentioned at all is to substantiate the "complaints that Thaksin has been stacking the civil service and independent commissions with his buddies" criticism. I hope this doesn't make the article too long. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 03:00, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
****Perhaps it's worth pointing out that "Patiwat" means "coup" in Thai? Neutrality much? --[[User:117.102.154.1|117.102.154.1]] 06:05, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
*The article is sufficiently divided and the length is explained by the volume of news related to Thaksin personally as a Businessman or public person, and not as an elected representative. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/202.176.106.71|202.176.106.71]] ([[User talk:202.176.106.71|talk]]) 07:43, 23 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


*I must admit I've occasionally meddled on this page, but I now feel that as an excyclopedic entry on a deposed tin-pot dictator this is far too long. It can't be Wikipedia's job to give more than a starting point for people who want to research the nitty-gritty of his undistinguished career. I'd suggest: Early Career, Rise to Power, Time in Office, After the Fall (or something, and this should be very brief), Criticism. And Criticism divided into a few broad areas: Corruption and conflicts of interest, Human rights abuses, Divisiveness, each meriting no more than two or three sentences simply summing up the broad charges.Properly referenced, that could guide the reader where he needs to go if she wants to know more. We don't need the war on drugs in seven different instances, eternally editing and re-editing over what the king really said, or detail each entanglement of Shin Corp.[[User:Sartoresartus|Sartoresartus]] ([[User talk:Sartoresartus|talk]]) 03:22, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
== Anti-drug policy ==
I translated the parts of the King's 2003 birthday speech where he praised Thaksin's anti-drug campaign, the one that lots of people complain about. The King speech is obviously unscripted and quite tough to translate. I'm sure that some people will read my translation and go "What! The King is praising Thaksin?!?!?!" and then go "This translation has got to be wrong, translated by some Thaksin-flunky for sure". Well, I took the official Thai translation from the Kanchanapisek website (the citation is in the article), so I'll let any editor who thinks he has a better translation offer it here. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 11:39, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

:I'm not disputing the transalation. I know you take a policy of including as much information here as possible. I'm just a bit uncomfortable with any attempt to read HM's intentions on political matters. That goes not just for this, but also the many interpretations in the media of HM's 2001 speech (interpreted to be not too flattering to Thaksin) or of his latest speech last December about how "The King can do no wrong" (also interpreted by many as a slap in the face to Thaksin). If consensus is in favor of keeping this reference, then so be it, but as I understand it, any attempt to attribute a political position to the palace risks being in violation of Thai lese majeste laws (yes, Sondhi himself has done this way too many times). I appreciate your efforts to [[Wikipedia:Be bold|Be Bold!]] - on the other hand, I personally prefer to err on the side of caution. Regards, [[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]] 12:50, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

::I hear where you're coming from. I have personally hated any attempts to involve the monarchy in Thai politics, because they are almost always self-serving. And because the King's speeches are usually so stream-of-conciousness and filled with teasing, sarcasm, and veiled references that it is hard to discern any clear intent. But in 2003 regarding drugs, I believe his intent was crystal clear. "'''ไอ้การชัยชนะของการปราบไอ้ยาเสพติดนี่ ดีที่ปราบ''' แล้วก็ที่เขาตำหนิบอกว่า เอ้ย คนตาย ตั้ง ๒,๕๐๐ คน อะไรนั่น เรื่องเล็ก" (''As for the victory of suppression of drugs, the suppression was good. And those who have criticized 'hey, the 2,500 dead people', whatever, that's a small thing''). He goes on to emphasize (he even tells everybody to jot it down!) how how every year more than 2,500 people die due to drug-related violence, and ask why nobody has ever counted those deaths. He goes on and on about this in his own style. Read the transcript at http://kanchanapisek.or.th/speeches/2003/1204.th.html. This is clearly praise, no interpretation or political guesswork needed. It seems pretty black and white to me, and when the most respected and powerful man in the country praises one of Thaksin's most controversial policies, I think it is worthy to include that praise in the article. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 20:06, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

:::Interesting. I usually try staying tight-lipped about my opinions of HM's speeches, but my feeling was that HM wasn't trying to belittle (or condone) the deaths in the drug war. As I recall, he also pointed out later in the same speech that people were killed for a number of causues; that it's not correct to blame it entirely on Thaksin, but that some authorities should also be held responsible. I remember that the police ordered an investigation to account for all the killings [http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/page.arcview.php?clid=2&id=90045] as a result of what HM said here: ​​ที่ทางราชการ​จะ​รับผิดชอบ​ ​ก็อาจ​จะ​มีจำ​นวนหนึ่ง​ ​ก็ลองถามทาง​ผู้​บัญชาการตำ​รวจแห่งชาติ​ ​ไปแยก​ ​จำ​แนก​เป็น​เท่า​ไร. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Regards, [[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]] 01:57, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

::::That is a reasonable interpretation, given the half-veiled way the King communicates some times. But overall, I don't see how anybody could interpret the King as anything less than praising of Thaksin in the overall narcotics front. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 23:44, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

:::::For the benefit of other users, here is the expanded text of the portion of the King's speech I quote above, plus a translation from [[The Nation]]:

:::::"ที่ทางราชการจะรับผิดชอบ ก็อาจจะมีจำนวนหนึ่ง ก็ลองถามทางผู้บัญชาการตำรวจแห่งชาติ ไปแยก จำแนกเป็นเท่าไร ก็เชื่อว่าใน ๒,๕๐๐ นี่ มากที่เขาฆ่ากันเอง แล้วก็ความผิดของเขา มาโยนความผิดให้ท่านซูเปอร์นายกฯ
:::::ไม่รู้ล่ะก็นายกฯ สั่งให้รองนายกฯ รองนายกฯ ก็เป็นซีอีโอ แต่นายกฯ ก็เป็นซีอีโอ ซูเปอร์นายกฯ ก็โยนให้ เพราะว่าบอกว่าเป็นผู้ชนะ ผู้ชนะกลายเป็นฆ่าหมดเลย ต้องรับผิดชอบฆ่า แต่แท้จริงลูกน้องก็ต้องรับผิดชอบ คือ ที่เข้าใจ ซีอีโอไม่รับผิดชอบอะไรเลย ต้องให้รองนายกฯ รับผิดชอบ และต้องมี ๗ คนด้วย รองนายกฯ ๗ คน คือผู้รับผิดชอบ แล้วรองนายกฯ ๗ คน เขารับผิดชอบ เขาก็ผลักให้พวกปลัดกระทรวง ให้พวกรัฐมนตรีก่อน พวกรัฐมนตรีบอกไม่รับผิดชอบ ต้องรัฐมนตรีช่วยว่าการ รัฐมนตรีช่วยว่าการก็ไม่รับผิดชอบ ต้องเป็นผู้ช่วยรัฐมนตรี ผู้ช่วยรัฐมนตรีก็บอกว่า ปลัดนั่นต้องรับผิดชอบ
:::::นายกฯ บอก แล้วปลัดไม่ต้องรับผิดชอบอะไร ไม่ต้องทำอะไร รองปลัดก็รับผิดชอบหมด รองปลัดบอกมีอธิบดี อย่างนี้เป็นการบอกว่า ไม่รับผิดชอบ ไม่มีใครรับผิดชอบเลย ลงท้ายใครรับผิดชอบ ประชาชนซีอีโอ ประชาชนซีอีโอทุกคน รับผิดชอบหมด ไม่จะทำอย่างไร คือการปกครองสมัยนี้แปลกดี กลับไปเหมือนอย่างเก่า กฎหมายประชาชนรับผิดชอบหมด ตอนนี้คนที่เดือดร้อนคือข้าพเจ้าเอง เดือดร้อน ท่านรองนายกฯ มาบอกว่า ทรงเป็นซูเปอร์ซีอีโอ แล้วใช้คำอะไร จำไม่ได้แล้ว"

:::::"Who is going to take responsibility? Some say the prime minister has to be held accountable after the war he led resulted in 2,500 deaths. But the deaths are attributed to many causes. Some are killings among traffickers; some [of the dead] may have been killed by the authorities. I suggest that the national police chief disclose the details of how the 2,500 deaths happened. Killings among traffickers are not the government's responsibility. It is not fair to blame the entire death toll on the "super-prime minister". The prime minister has delegated the task to his deputies. He says he is the victor in the war. It is said he should take responsibility for the killings. But his subordinates should share the blame. The prime minister's seven deputies have also delegated their tasks to ministers and cannot be held accountable. The ministers, in turn, have done the same by passing on responsibility to subordinates and so on down the chain of command to deputy ministers, vice ministers, and permanent secretaries until the passing of responsibility finally reaches the CEOs and, at last, the people. But the people may turn the tables and dump everything on me."[http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/page.arcview.php?clid=2&id=90044] [[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]] 01:49, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

::::::Again, we could go on-and-on about this, given the nature of HM's speeches. Again, I personally rather not include his statements in this article, but if we must keep it, then I will add a qualifier stating that HM did ask for the death toll in the "war on drugs" to be explained. HM almost always equivocates or qualifies his declarative statements in some way, and I believe this case is no exception. Regards, [[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]] 01:58, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

:::::::That was a very loose translation, but then again, the original was quite loose in style as well. As for the article, I believe that inclusion of the King's praise, with disclaimers as suggested by [[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]], is important. Thaksin has been loudly accused of human rights offenses by his opponents as well as the international community (mostly for Tak Bai but for the narcotics supression drive as well). Yet the narcotics supression drive remains one of his most popular policies domestically. The King's praise is a concrete gauge to this popularity. The King's praise was not unqualified though, and his concerns about the dead reflect the doubt that some Thais feel about the human costs of this most controversial of policies. [[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]], could you suggest a translation for the King's qualifier that the death toll be explained? The thing is, he doesn't just say it, but goes on-and-on almost but not really suggesting it. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 20:46, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

::::::::A minor point that might shed some light on the King's 2003 comments: the King really hates drugs! Some quotes from his 2002 speech: "​ก็​ต้อง​ขอบใจที่​ได้​กล่าว​ถึง​กิจการที่​ได้​ทำ​มาตลอด​ ​มีสิ่งหนึ่งที่ท่าน​ยัง​ไม่​ได้​กล่าว​ถึง​และ​ก็​เป็น​สิ่งที่​เป็น​ความ​เดือดร้อนของชาติบ้านเมือง​ ​มา​เป็น​เวลานานประมาณ​ ๕๐ ​ปี​ ​ซึ่ง​เป็น​เรื่องของยา​เสพติด​ ​ซึ่ง​ยา​เสพติด​นั้น​มีมาก่อน​เป็น​เวลานาน​ ​แต่​เป็น​ยา​เสพติดที่​ไม่​รุนแรงมากนัก​ ​คือ​ ​ที่​เขา​สู้​กัน​เรื่องฝิ่น...." (My translation): "(Gives thanks to all the people who have wished him well on his projects and stuff)... There is one thing that you haven’t mentioned and that has caused harm on the country for about fifty years. That is narcotics. Narcotics have existed for a long time, but was the kind of narcotic that wasn’t very violent, which was opium...." He goes on and on and on about how bad opion is, how it led farang to invade China, how heroin and other narcotics made Thai people crazy, how high the social costs are, how evil drugs are, etc. Read it for yourself at http://kanchanapisek.or.th/speeches/2002/1204.th.html. The key point of trivia: this preceeded Thaksin's "ruthless" suppression campaign by 3 months. When the King talks, people listen! [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 21:01, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

:::::::::Here's what I would like to add: "However, His Majesty did express concern about reports of extra-judicial killings, adding 'some [of the dead] may have been killed by the authorities. I suggest that the national police chief disclose the details of how the 2,500 deaths happened.'[http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/page.arcview.php?clid=2&id=90044]" Any objections? [[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]] 10:27, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

::::::::::Sounds alright, I guess. But then it should be noted that after the King's speech, National Police Chief Sant Sarutanond did order an investigation, as requested by the King. The result: the police revised down the drug-related toll to 1329, of which 72 were extra-judicial killings by the police. See http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3334169.stm. Seems aggressively low, but the Police did it at a direct order from the King, so either they truly believe in the revised figure, or they weren't taking the King's order seriously... [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 22:40, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Note that while we've been discussing this, an anonymous editor has gone ahead and added an interpretation of the King's praise, calling it "ambiguous" and literally putting words and assumptions into the Royal mouth. I'm reading the King's speech again, and besides the points that we've discussed above, I don't see how the praise was ambiguous. That same editor also added a bunch of unreferenced "facts", figures, and quotes to the article. I have noted the need for citations, and will remove this stuff if no citations show up. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 22:46, 7 May 2006 (UTC)


*I agree that the article is quite long. It would be great to summarize it and remove any irrelevant information. Some information can be moved to a seperate article. For example, AIS can be summarized and the information can be moved to the "Advanced Info Service" article.[[User:nogia123|nogia123]] ([[User talk:nogia123|talk]]) 09:04, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
:"Ambiguous praise" are definitely not the words I would use (what does it mean anyway?). I'm still thinking of what would sound better, but can't right now. Also, I remember reading about that investigation the police conducted as a result of the King's speech. I'm still trying to decide what to make of it. Is there any quote from the National Human Rights Commission or other group that opposed the anti-drug campaign that comments on the report? For now, anyways, I'll go ahead and the change I proposed above. Regards, [[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]] 01:54, 8 May 2006 (UTC)


== He is not Thai ==
::The Police investigation, in response to the King's order, is the BBC link given above. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 02:03, 8 May 2006 (UTC)


He is Chinese. Why Chinese are allowed to run foreign country??? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/115.129.8.205|115.129.8.205]] ([[User talk:115.129.8.205|talk]]) 03:22, 13 April 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
An enthusiastic anonymous editor (he same one who rewrote the sub-section on the King) has claimed that Thaksin promised to "rid every inch of the country" of meth in 3 months, without citing where that particular phrase comes from. I've done a search on Google for ("rid every inch of the country" Thaksin) and found nothing. I therefore assume that Thaksin never actually said those words, and that the editor was putting those words in his mouth. The sentence has been reverted to its original form. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 02:30, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
:He's 15/16ths Thai, 1/16th Chinese. [[User:Jim Michael|Jim Michael]] ([[User talk:Jim Michael|talk]]) 16:18, 6 March 2010 (UTC)


:The enthusiastic anonymous editor claimed that most of the people killed during the anti-drug campaign were poor, and that only a minute portion of "kingpins" were arrested. This is unreferenced, of course, but if true, deserves to be in included in the article. I have been unable to find a reference for it. Could someone please look in to this? I really don't want to delete the entire sentence, because if it is true, it is a valid criticism of the campaign. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 21:11, 10 May 2006 (UTC)


Dear Sir
:The same anonymous editor claimed that the campaign increased the price of drugs but did not reduce the availability of drugs. The second part, about not affecting the availability of drugs would be a very valid criticism of the campaign, but the claim is unreferenced. This sentence isn't biased (unless if the anonymous editor made the fact up). But I can't find any sources that claimed that the campaign didn't reduce drug availability. Could someone please help research this and make the edit? [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 21:15, 10 May 2006 (UTC)


He was born in Thailand, so he is a Thai.
[[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]], the ABAC poll was a good addition. Now that Thaksin has decided to get back to work, his first decision is to start another anti-drug drive. This is a obviously a political decision, aimed at increasing his popularity in an area he knows people are concerned about (as the ABAC poll attests). Do you think this deserves mention as well in the article? [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 20:05, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
He is good or bad, follow the news, and judge.


:Being born in Thailand doesn't necessarily mean you gain Thai nationality. But to the best of my knowledge Thaksin S. is a Thai national.[[User:TheHamburger|TheHamburger]] ([[User talk:TheHamburger|talk]]) 07:24, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
:Good question. I recall that even after the big "war on drugs" concluded in 2003, "second phases" and "third phases" were announced later, but I don't remember to them amounting to much. I guess it's a habit of governments to announce things that they don't bother to follow up on (or they do, but it's the media that don't follow up). It's not clear yet what the latest announcement of another crackdown will amount to. Until then, I'd hold off just for now on mentioning that here. Regards, [[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]] 01:19, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


==New edits==
::While we're on the topic, any response to the anonymous editor's suggested shortening of the drug section (among other sections)? Given it was such a high profile topic, I'm not sure a shortening is neccesary. The anon editor has made the suggestion in good faith, but I don't see anybody responding to it yet. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 10:06, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
As the above comment indicates, the passionate are out in force again. Thanks for semi-protecting it. Even so, could those who wish to fulminate about the April 2009 protests please do that in the relevant section, right down at the bottom, now headed "self-imposed exile", and not in the introduction, where it doesn't belong (I've removed most of the addition for now). A lot of people have put some effort into tidying up the article, so perhaps as a matter of courtesy if nothing else, please scan the headings before unleashing the force of your rhetoric upon the stunned masses. Ideally the intro should I think be framed on the average laptop screen without scrolling: see the [[Winston Churchill]] entry as a good model (and by all means help condense what there is already).[[User:Sartoresartus|Sartoresartus]] ([[User talk:Sartoresartus|talk]]) 03:39, 18 April 2009 (UTC)


:Agreed. Thanks for your neutral suggestions. [[User:Ddave2425|Ddave2425]] ([[User talk:Ddave2425|talk]]) 10:13, 30 April 2009 (UTC)ddave2425
:::I'm probably not the best person to opine on this matter, since I also invested quite a bit of time in contributing to this section. However, I believe it would make little sense to shrink this section while keeping the rest of the "policies" section intact. The entire "policies" section should be relooked and shortened as a whole, while the details can remain in the [[Policies of the Thaksin government]] entry. The anonymous editors' suggestions may be a good place to start, but they need some work. Regards [[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]] 10:41, 24 May 2006 (UTC)


Having said that, there should eventually be be a bit about the protests in the "self-imposed exile" section, not of novel-length but mentioning the cancelled ASEAN+3 summit, intention to return to Thailand, call for revolution, quelling of protests, revocation of passport. The red-shirt protests as such probably need a page to themselves. In my humble opinion, as they say.[[User:Sartoresartus|Sartoresartus]] ([[User talk:Sartoresartus|talk]]) 03:55, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
== Composition of anti-Thaksin crowds (and other enthusiastic anonymous edits) ==


==Involvement in Thailand's red shirt riot==
The enthusiastic anonymous editor who stormed through the article a few days ago noted that "urban upper/middle class royalist Bangkokians" made up only a small portion of the anti-Thaksin crowd, whereas I originally noted that that same group made up a large portion of the crowd. The original discussion around this original wording provoked no debate a couple months ago when I wrote it. Given all the press this received back then, can anybody actually claim that the middle-class made up a small portion of the crowd? Especially when the second paragraph notes the divisions between region/class that the whole controversy caused. The enthusiastic editor also notes that the royal family (some members of whom petitioned for Thaksin to be replaced by the King) was "vast". Well, yeah, but so what? Is the vastness of the royal family really relevant? The King's position was made clear in his speech. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 03:21, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Excuse me! Why did anyone (whose past contributions only involve in the Thaksin's page) remove the paragraph about his involvement in the recent Bangkok riot? The protest is the most widely publicize (and searched for) issue at the moment. I don't care if you're naiive enough to belive that he simply want to 'give moral support' to the protesters, but what was said there was 100% facts, no opionion. Please bring it back immediately. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Donny TH|Donny TH]] ([[User talk:Donny TH|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Donny TH|contribs]]) 10:19, 18 April 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


:If you were to make the huge effort to scroll down to the bottom of this page, you might find your answer there. [[User:Sartoresartus|Sartoresartus]] ([[User talk:Sartoresartus|talk]]) 17:48, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
Speaking of which, those entire two paragraphs is now a mess, full of mis-spellings, bad grammar, no citations, factual inconsisencies, and a POV that is not very neutral. I want to respect the collaborative nature of wikipedia, but part of me just wants to revert that entire section. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 03:21, 8 May 2006 (UTC)


:Ok, from your logic, perhaps there's too much details there, but being the event that recieve world-media attention, it certainly deserves a place in the introduction. I'll 'condense' the paragraph a little more. [[User:Donny TH|Donny TH]] ([[User talk:Donny TH|talk]]) 21:20, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
== Article needs clean-up and NPOV review ==


== Reformer or fugitive? ==
The enthusiastic anonymous editor (IP: 58.136.100.43) from a couple days ago made many edits that hurt the NPOV and quality standards of Wikipedia. Too many spelling mistakes to count, long run-on sentences, clearly partisan tone, and no citations for any of the "facts" contributed. And not a single explanation for why he made the edits the way he did. I don't want to do a full revert, since that isn't very constructive either, so I'll let the other editors chip in and either make piece-meal changes or alternative suggestions. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 03:32, 8 May 2006 (UTC)


Just because he was convicted of a crime in a Thai court does not mean he is guilty nor does this deserve more prominence than his role as a humanitarian. Democracy no longer exists in thailand. The world needs to know that the Thai courts are corupt, that the king approved the coup and that Thaksin supports one person, one vote democracy. I have not yet made any edits to the article, but I will revert biased edits.
:This is getting quite absurd. Anonymous editors have made substantial changes to the NPOV of the article. The King's praise of Thaksin's anti-drug policy has been erased, and replaced with criticism taken out of context. Mention that drug use in schools declined has also been erased. New "facts" have been added without citation, e.g., "anti-Thaksin protestors consisted mostly of academics and intellectuals". Facts are phrased in a loaded way, e.g., "Thaksin's overwhelming support in the poor Northeastern provinces and his own hometown of Chiang Mai and nearby areas". Words have been put into people's mouths that they never uttered, e.g., Thaksin never said he would "rid every inch of the country" of drugs. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 04:14, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
:1. News flash: Guilty is defined as being convicted by a court.
:2. Humanitarian!? I've heard of lots of (good and bad) things he is, but humanitarian is definitely not one of them. Enlighten me.
:3. Democracy don't exist when a minority group of people came out rioting, throwing motolovs, burning buses, shooting at people, when the rest of about 60 millions sit depressed at home watching their nation falling apart on TV and pray for the crisis to stop.
:4. See my comment below about court. Just because it convicts someone you like doesn't mean it is corrupted.
:5. Go out to any crowded place and shout that thing you say about the King. I doubt if you'll last longer than 5 minutes. --[[User:Donny TH|Donny TH]] ([[User talk:Donny TH|talk]]) 05:43, 4 May 2009 (UTC)


When possible, please use third party, independent sources such as the BBC, New York Times or Associated Press. Thai based publications such as TheNation or Bangkok Post may not be neutral. Politics and corruption plagues Thai media, courts and military.[[User:Ddave2425|Ddave2425]] ([[User talk:Ddave2425|talk]]) 10:18, 30 April 2009 (UTC)ddave2425
::I suggest the anonymous editor explain his/her reasons behind the changes made. Perhaps we should leave a note on the IP user's talk page, giving him up to two days to explain his changes. If there is no answer, I believe that all the changes should be reversed. Are there any administrators watching this page? [[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]] 04:29, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
:But Dude, you sounds like you live in Thailand and know things inside out when you said politic plague media and courts (wow.. others.. possible in some case, but court!.. that's a high and quite impregnable institution. 5 years ago, it rules against favour of Thaksin when he and his friends control Everything in Thailand), and if you do, you must have known what you're talking about. The Nation may presents facts in an biased commentary, but not Bangkok Post, (at least to a much lower scale.) (But if you exclude these 2, there' won't be much local English-language news source left, and international press don't report small incidents, only big ones like in April) By the way, what is reported in Thai media and international media during the April roits is pretty consistant, don't you think? --[[User:Donny TH|Donny TH]] ([[User talk:Donny TH|talk]]) 05:24, 4 May 2009 (UTC)


*Donny, give serious thought to whether "small incidents" really belong in a biographical article that is already too long. There are numerous other places to document your own take on every single detail.[[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] ([[User talk:Patiwat|talk]]) 23:51, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Multiple IP addresses are behind it. I've left a message on one of them. I don't consider it vandalism; just an enthusiastic Thaksin-hater who doesn't understand Wikipedia norms. The darn thing is, I do not want to revert ''all'' of his/her changes. Amid all the POV, faked quotes, and unreferenced opinions, he/she makes some assertions that, if properly backed up, should belong in the article. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 06:59, 9 May 2006 (UTC)


I removed comparisons of Thaksin to AIDS and Hitler. Although these were referenced, it does not seem appropriate or encyclepedic, especially without context. I mean, in what way is Thaksin similar to AIDS, which is not even a person? If anything, it illustrates the bias of the sources. [[User:Ddave2425|Ddave2425]] ([[User talk:Ddave2425|talk]]) 01:46, 3 May 2009 (UTC)ddave2425
I think that the multiple IP addresses obviously prove the number of individuals opposed to your words, in which case, your statement about a small minority opposing Thaksin could also be disputed. I think that your article is a little biased. The parts about Sonthi's arguments, for example, you used a lit of descriptive words that seem to suggest that Sonthi has exagerated a lot of things. Fair enough, but since this is a formal article, you must take an objective view. Many people from many different countries will be reading this article, it is not fair that you voice your opinion as fact for millions of people and then get "huffy" when your statements are oppposed.
:Nice find! and to be correct, the source (who are individuals) is just making metaphoric comments in their point of view, but to search for those sentences in their speech and put it in here, it illustrates the bias of that writer. (whose name starts with a 'P' who has been editing this article a thousand times.) It's reverse psychology. Mentioning attacking statements that sounds silly to make the accused looks better. See the details and another example here: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Finland_Plot Finland Plot talk page]. --[[User:Donny TH|Donny TH]] ([[User talk:Donny TH|talk]]) 04:37, 4 May 2009 (UTC)


*Well, Prawase is a physician and knows a few things about AIDS... :) When one of Thailand's most respected public intellectuals criticizes you that harshly, I'd think that should legitimately be included in the article? Same thing for the other examples: when one of Thailand's most respected monks calls you a demon, a German educated lawyer compares you to Hitler, and a newspaper that did notable reporting on the Killing Fields compares you to Pol Pot, I think it is notable. More notable than, say, some psycho lady going onto Youtube using profanities and calling for Thaksin's murder (Donny, you know what I'm talking about, right?). Seriously, remove all the comparisons if you like, EXCEPT for Prem's. He's the Privy Council President (according to some, above politics), and any criticisms he makes of an elected politician are definitely noteworthy. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] ([[User talk:Patiwat|talk]]) 23:45, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
*I frankly don't see where I've suggested that Sondhi exagerated a lot of things, but if you do, please go ahead and edit it to make it look more formal. It isn't really related to the unreferenced, low-quality, and clearly biased edits made in the past week. Two wrongs don't make a right. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 20:48, 10 May 2006 (UTC)


Patiwat, If Prawase knows something about AIDS, put it on the AIDS article page. I will remove those kinds of statements and we can bring in an admin if you wish. As for local media coverage, if the international media does not cover it, perhaps it does not belong on the Eghlish language wiki. I do not trust The Nation or Bangkok Post. [[User:Ddave2425|Ddave2425]] ([[User talk:Ddave2425|talk]]) 21:27, 9 May 2009 (UTC)ddave2425
The Background to the "Anti-Thaksin and pro-Thaksin rallies" section begins by claiming (without reference) that most of the protestors were academics, intellectuals, and middle class. The final paragraph of that section claims "''The chief source of controversy has been Thaksin's overwhelming support in the poor Northeastern provinces and his own hometown of Chiang Mai and nearby areas, leading to the crisis being protrayed as a conflict between the urban middle class and the rural poor.''" This just sounds weird, weasely, and a bit loaded too. If there was a political conflict between rural Thailand and the urban middle-class, then just say so. But this is not the case. I've only been able to find reference that say "Social instability could ''easily turn into'' class conflict pitting the pro-Thaksin rural poor against the anti-Thaksin urban rich" or "Violent class conflict ''is not impossible'' in Thailand". I'd prefer to let the facts speek for themselves, and delete this paragraph. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 21:46, 10 May 2006 (UTC)


:*I think that list of comparisons from, as Patiwat says, notable people nicely illustrated our claim that T. is a 'controversial figure', which is all it was meant to illustrate. We ain't saying he's Hitler, we're saying his detractors compared him to.. (so that, dear reader, should give you an idea how much some people despise him). It is possible to edit all colour out of these articles and make them very dull. Read [http://www.lrb.co.uk/v31/n10/runc01_.html this] fan of our collective efforts.
I have done some cleanup of the article and will remove the POV and Factual Accuracy tag. I have retained a lot of the POV statements and inaccurate claims, because I think that some of them might valid, and will give other editors the chance to find citations. If no citations come up, I will erase or modify the claims. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 22:03, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
:*There'd be slim pickings if we had to rely on the international media, which (I'm sorry to have to say) largely rewrite the local media for want of anyone who speaks the language or has the faintest idea what's going on. Me, I don't trust the New York Times, and with very good [[Judith_Miller_(journalist)|reason]]. We'll just have to use a bit of discretion and try not to be children (says he, shaking his rattle). [[User:Sartoresartus|Sartoresartus]] ([[User talk:Sartoresartus|talk]]) 11:56, 23 May 2009 (UTC)


** :: My 2 cents worth: I came here because I wanted to check out if Thaksin's corruption or alleged corruption has been so severe that it warrants years of campaigning against his group which has quite a following. The price for fighting Thaksin & Co has been upped significantly recently so I wondered if anybody or who was/is behind that.
== Public reactions to Thaksin, post-"stepping down" ==


Which policies might he have implemented to attract such hostilities that bring the country towards civil war and make that look acceptable? I was quite staggered by the creativeness and uniqueness of his policies. He certainly did not follow the rule books by those who pull the strings, and that does not endear you/him with the invisible layer of grey eminences. One example is the early re-payment of an IMF loan. They like countries to have these loans because that allows them influence. His policies were neither really left nor really right which is an irritant to those who pull the strings.
Some time ago, I had noted the strong positive public reaction to Thaksin after he announced he was not going to accept the Premiership. The reference I used was a ABAC Songkran poll which found that most people wanted to receive blessings from Thaksin compared to any other politician. While OK, equating New Years Blessings with popularity left me feeling a bit uncomfortable. A recently public poll (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/04/30/politics/politics_30002895.php) might be more appropriate. Done on April 28 (~ 3 weeks after Thaksin made his announcement) it found that 54% preferred TRT's policies, while 7% preferred the Democrats. Maybe not a perfect barometer to the public's reaction to Thaksin's announcement, but maybe better than the Sonkran poll. Any thoughts? [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 03:51, 8 May 2006 (UTC)


:: I also wanted to see on which scale Thaksin's corruption that we always hear about was. In comparison to German corruption before and under then Chancellor Helmut Kohl (our land in Berlin was affected, my own experience) it is not on a very high scale, but of course it is still 'verboten' - he and the wife should have known. His sister also made a severe mistake with that amnesty suggestion - it stirred up far too much and showed bad judgement.
*I have made the edits noted above. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 04:24, 16 May 2006 (UTC)


In summary, yes, I believe now that there are forces which whip up anti-Thaksin groups - but who they are is not obvious to me. He is not a reformer or fugitive, he is a fugitive reformer, but the reforms were not the 'correct' ones. Ally Hauptmann-Gurski [[Special:Contributions/121.209.53.9|121.209.53.9]] ([[User talk:121.209.53.9|talk]]) 05:39, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
:I didn't notice this earlier. One thing I wanted to point out was that I think Thai voters are smart enough to distinguish between a party's policies and the person of the party leader. So it's possible to support TRT's policies while disapproving of the Shin sale, Thaksin's abrasive personality and his authoritarian tendencies. The poll you cited that people want TRT's policies to continue, even if they may not think highly Thaksin's other qualities. Well, at least we know that the 55% of BKKers who voted "No" didn't do so out of love for the Democrats' policies. Regards, [[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]] 12:20, 16 May 2006 (UTC)


==Why "junta-appointed" is a significant term==
::Democrat policies? What policies? :-) Back to the topic, it was hard to try to find an ideal measure of public reaction to Thaksin's announcement. One extreme was the ABAC Songkran blessings poll, which showed that Thaksin as an leader still had overwhelming popularity (52% vs. 26% for Chuan and Abhisit combined). But using this poll has always made me cringe, mainly because non-Thais might not understand why a Songkran blessing means so much as a measure of individual respect. Admittedly, the policy poll I ended up using isn't perfect either, but I'd argue against [[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]] by saying that the TRT marketing machine has clearly positioned Thaksin as the man behind the policies. The fact that even after falling to the PAD's attacks, Thaksin as an individual and Thaksin as a policy-maker was still massively popular needs to be noted.
"Junta-appointed" is a significant term that needs to be retained. Prior to the 2006 coup, numerous state agencies were established by the 1997 Constitution, e.g., the Constitutional Court, the Counter Corruption Committee. The 2006 coup abrogated the 1997 Constitution and effectively eliminated those state agencies. New agencies were established by the military government with somewhat similar names, e.g., Constitutional Tribunal, but had a completely different makeup as well as a legal context different from the 1997-2006 versions of the same agencies. For example, there were specific rules about what the 1997-2006 Constitutional Court could rule on and how it could rule - those rules did not apply for the junta-appointed Constitutional Tribunal. To be banned by the junta-appointed Constitutional Tribunal or have your assets frozen by the junta-appointed Asset Examination Committee was very different from having the same done by the 1997-2006 agencies.[[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] ([[User talk:Patiwat|talk]]) 23:13, 4 May 2009 (UTC)


==Who caused the April unrest?==
An anonymous editor (he left a message on my Talk page) has edited the sentence to be "A Bangkok poll taken 3 weeks after Thaksin's announcement found that TRT policies were still overwhelmingly popular in Bangkok, with 54.2% preferring TRT policies versus 7.5% for the Democrats." Now this is factually correct, but the way it is worded doesn't support the header sentence "Thaksin's announcement provoked mixed reactions among the public and the anti-Thaksin coalition." The point isn't about the TRT's policies (which weren't really affected by the political crisis), but about the popularity of Thaksin as an individual (which was clearly the target of the PAD's negative campaign). I'm thinking of reverting going back to the original data source: "'''Thaksin's announcement provoked mixed reactions among the public and the anti-Thaksin coalition. ''He remained highly popular with a large majority of the population - a poll conducted days after the announcement found that 52.9% of Bangkokians wished to receive Thai new year blessings from Thaksin, versus 26% for Democrat party leaders Chuan Leekpai and Abhisit Vejjajiva combined[http://bangkokpost.net/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=90345]. In Thai tradition, new year blessings are usually given by highly respected figures.'''''" Any thoughts? (p.s. Could the anonymous highly educated elite physician editor please respond here, and not on my Talk page. This isn't personal.)
This is a loaded question, and can only be addressed by strictly adhering to Wikipedia NPOV policies. The reds have said that the blues provoked them with violence and that yellows set the precedent. The yellows will have said that the reds caused it. The short fact of the matter is that there were violent clashes between the UDD and government supporters. Can't we just leave it at that in the intro? The "he says this and she said that" detail can go in the article. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] ([[User talk:Patiwat|talk]]) 23:27, 4 May 2009 (UTC)


==Asia Times==
:Is there a poll out there that asks what people thought of the PM's decision to step aside? If I recall correctly, people thought it was the right choice to step aside, but still want a continuation of TRT policies. Thaksin's "sacrifice" also seemed to improve his personal standing too. Perhaps the best would be "Thaksin's announcement provoked mixed reactions among the public and the anti-Thaksin coalition. On the one hand, according to X poll, people approved of Thaksin's decision to "take a break from politics". On the other hand ... [continue with what you wrote above, plus mention the poll on TRT vs Democrat policies]." Hopefully, this could satisfy everyone. What do you all think? [[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]] 07:23, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
Does Sondhi still own the A.times online? I think that organ is so discredited that there's no point using it as reference for owt. [[User:Sartoresartus|Sartoresartus]] ([[User talk:Sartoresartus|talk]]) 09:31, 23 May 2009 (UTC)


== Career chronology out of sequence in favor of specious speculation ==
::That's the problem: I don't ever recall seeing a poll that specifically asked about his choice to step aside. Nor were there polls which tested his popularity both before and after the announcement. The Songkran blessing poll and the policy poll are the only ones I could find. Please point out if there are any other results that are publically available. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 08:35, 18 May 2006 (UTC)


The section entitled, "Deputy Prime Minister under Chavalit" says that the July ecomomic collapse came after Thaksin took office in August and suggests he was to blame. Well, sorry to burst your bubble, but August comes after July. Duh. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/202.28.16.33|202.28.16.33]] ([[User talk:202.28.16.33|talk]]) 05:16, 9 September 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
== Where "no-votes" anti-Thaksin votes? ==


:I believe you're reading the text wrong. It means Thaskin took office in August soon after the economic collapse in July. I've removed the word "soon" to make things clearer. --[[User:NeilN|'''<span style="color:#003F87;">Neil<span style="color:#CD0000;">N</span></span>''']] <sup style="font-family:Calibri;">''[[User talk:NeilN|<span style="color:#003F87;">talk</span>]] ♦ [[Special:Contributions/NeilN|<span style="color:#CD0000;">contribs</span>]]''</sup> 12:43, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
The enthusiastic anonymous editor from a few days ago made some edits to the "Election results" section which almost but-not-quite implied that "no-votes" were anti-Thaksin votes. I think this is pretty relevant to the article: was more than half of Bangkok anti-Thaksin? That would have tremendous implications to Thaksin's political future. The results from a Suan Dusit poll on 3 April (http://www.dusitpoll.dusit.ac.th/2549/2549_021.html) point in a different direction: only 19% of people who voted "no-vote" in Bangkok did so because they didn't like the PM. Most others were confused, jaded, bored, etc. So even though Thaksin didn't clearly win in Bangkok, he certainly didn't loose it. Should this factoid be noted in the article? [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 04:02, 8 May 2006 (UTC)


== Verdict? ==
:Decidng who "wins" or "loses" a vote, beyond the mere election numbers, is a tricky exercise off which countless self-appointed political pundits make their living. Just one example off the top of my head: LBJ won the 1968 Democratic primary in New Hampshire with nearly two-thirds of the vote against anti-war candidate Eugene McCarthy. So LBJ won by the numbers, but the media declared that he "lost" to a hitherto unknown opponent known as "expected". That's right, LBJ committed the sin of not performing as well as "expected". As for Thaksin, well b/c TRT won 32 BKK seats last year but only pulled off a plurality against the "No" votes this year in nine seats, that was considered a "setback" and a "loss" for the premier. I have the feeling that if TRT won less the 20 seats in BKK last year (but still won overall in a landslide), people would not have been able to make such a big deal about it. You also have the issue of spoiled votes - the anti-Thaksin camp also considers most of those to be votes against the PM (though they have no numbers to back this up). We can discuss all the spin and the polling, I think for the sake of brevity we should just stick to posting the numbers, and that the main figure we should pay attention to is the TRT party-list share of the national vote, since Thaksin promised to resign if this figure fell below 50%. If someone really insists in going into depth analyzing the results, we can do that on the [[Thailand legislative election, 2006]] page. Regards, [[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]] 11:01, 8 May 2006 (UTC)


I think the one who wrote the verdict mistook some part with Thaksin's defence against the charge. You can see it from the reference he/she put in [http://www.thaksinlive.com/2010/02/headlines/722 A summary of Dr Thaksin Shinawatra’s defence in the Supreme Court in the case to confiscate his assets], especially in the last 3 items. Please verify. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/125.24.117.101|125.24.117.101]] ([[User talk:125.24.117.101|talk]]) 16:56, 27 February 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
::I guess that is reasonable. But the question is relevant now, more than before, because the conversion rate between "no-votes" to Democrat votes should determine the results of the next Constitution Court mandated election. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 22:33, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
*Any particular points where I misinterpreted the defence? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] ([[User talk:Patiwat|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Patiwat|contribs]]) 04:51, 28 February 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned2 -->


== Color pink ==
:::I agree that "No" votes are not all Democrat votes, as people voted "No" for a variety of reasons. Many PAD supporters are also not natural Democrat supporters, so it will be interesting to see where they park their votes the next time around. Once the re-vote takes place, we'll have a clearer picture of what's been going on. Until then, I think we should be careful about including any more speculation in this article. Regards, [[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]] 01:06, 9 May 2006 (UTC)


He was born on a Tuesday and his [[Thai solar calendar]] auspicious color not red but pink.
Everyone I knew voted no. And yes, because they felt a little apathy towards the government. Not because of Taksin himself persay but if half the country are not behind the guy then how can it work. And yes, everyone who voted no did vote it just to show their opposition to Thaksin. It is difficult for anyone to last very long in politics, look at Blair, Bush etc. It's the same story. The people will never be happy with their leader and you have to respect that. And you must also realise that a lot of the people who voted yes did so because they were bribed. Obviously, you didn't include anything about the manner of thai politics and the tendency to bribe did you? Ins't it fishy that the richest man in Thailand becomes Prime minister?


== Wanted by Interpol? ==
*This page isn't supposed to be for political debates. The personal feelings of you and me to Thaksin shouldn't be relevant. I'm merely saying that there exists quantitative, authoritative, and timely research that describes the motivation behind the "no-votes" in the last election. Thaksin is a politician, and politicians live-or-die based on whether people like them or not, as you noted. The research clearly suggests that most of the people who "no-voted" didn't do it because they didn't like Thaksin (unlike you and your friends). I was quite shocked at seeing this research, because I thought (like you) that the majority of "no-votes" were people who didn't like Thaksin and converted to the Democrats/PAD. This research is highly indicative of how the next election will go and will have a strong influence on Thaksin's political future. I'm repeating my point here, but even after reading [[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]]'s rebuttal, I still think this research result is relevant to this article. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 21:01, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Thaksin doesn't seem to be listed as a fugitive on the Interpol list.[http://www.interpol.int/Public/Wanted/Search/ResultListNew.asp?EntityName=&EntityForename=&EntityNationality=THAILAND&EntityAgeBetween=15&EntityAgeAnd=95&EntitySex=&EntityEyeColor=&EntityHairColor=&EntityOffence=&ArrestWarrantIssuedBy=&EntityFullText=&cboNbHitsPerPage=8&cboNbPages=20&Search=Search Interpol Thai nationals] <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Surfing bird|Surfing bird]] ([[User talk:Surfing bird|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Surfing bird|contribs]]) 13:31, 14 April 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


== Overseas trip ==
==Death rumours==
Someone has already added his date of death to the article (now reverted), but Thaksin has apparently personally denied he's dead - [http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/36623/thaksin-denies-cancer-death-claim] -- [[User:Boing! said Zebedee|<span style="color:darkred;">Boing<b>!</b></span>]] [[User talk:Boing! said Zebedee#top|<span style="color:darkgreen;">said Zebedee</span>]] 21:28, 26 April 2010 (UTC)


Thaksin is not dead. [[Special:Contributions/122.0.2.2|122.0.2.2]] ([[User talk:122.0.2.2|talk]]) 09:36, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
The post-election overseas trip ended up not having any major political impact. I would suggest removing it at some point. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 21:49, 16 May 2006 (UTC)


:which probably comes as a great disappointment to many Thais. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/124.122.96.212|124.122.96.212]] ([[User talk:124.122.96.212|talk]]) 08:10, 24 September 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:I concur. I don't think this is a terribly important part of his biography. [[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]] 02:07, 17 May 2006 (UTC)


==Bullshit==
::Done. At the time, the Democrats/PAD portrayed the trips as the first step of Thaksin's exile from Thailand, yet another instance of the meddlesome PM creating more work for overworked embassy staff, while offering the tantalizing potential that the foreign leaders would snub Thaksin or that overseas Thais would make a ruckus. The TRT portrayed the trips as private trips for the PM to brief foreign leaders on what exactly was happening in Thailand, and also as public demonstrations of Thaksin's still considerable ''baramee''. It turns out that nothing much really happened, as the Thai public's focus was on the EC and the trips went off without any major hitches. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 03:06, 17 May 2006 (UTC)


I don't have the time to get involved in an edit war, but a quick scan reveals that some contributers here are fulminating nonsense. For example ''Just because he was convicted of a crime in a Thai court does not mean he is guilty nor does this deserve more prominence than his role as a humanitarian. ... Thaksin supports one person, one vote democracy.''
== Picture with Mr. "Akbar"? ==


Totally wrong! Thaksin ''is'' a convicted criminal, no sensible person would call him ''humanitarian'' except as sarcasm.
An anonymous editor (203.144.143.9 and 203.144.143.8) has replaced the US Department of State photo of Thaksin with an atrocious picture of Thaksin standing side-by-side holding a role with a Mr. "Akbar". The anonymous editor Rationale for the replacement is that the "Akbar" photo is a license free photo, implying that the State Dept photo is not.


As to Thaksin's view of democracy, consider this: one level where democracy here doesn't work too badly is at the local level: at least voters are personally acquainted with the candidates. Yet when P.M., Thaksin proposed that ''he'' appoint village headmen and subdistrict kamnans because, in his words, democracy doesn't work at the local level.
1) US State Dept photos ''can'' appear on Wikipedia (as per 17 U.S.C. § 101 and § 105)


Foreign media has conveyed many misconceptions about Thai politics. Let's not compound that here at Wikipedia.[[User:Jamesdowallen|Jamesdowallen]] ([[User talk:Jamesdowallen|talk]]) 08:46, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
2) Akbar side-by-side with Thaksin has no business being the headline photo of the Thaksin biographical article


:Hi. I agree that personal analysis and judgment from either side should not be there (and I also agree that the complexities of Thai politics have been greatly over-simplified and often misrepresented by foreign media), but I don't see what we can do other than revert POV additions whenever we see them. I've had this page watched for some time, and I really don't see a high level of additions of such material - and the whole thing generally seems reasonably balanced to me -- [[User:Boing! said Zebedee|<span style="color:darkred;">Boing<b>!</b></span>]] [[User talk:Boing! said Zebedee#top|<span style="color:darkgreen;">said Zebedee</span>]] 09:10, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
3) Users [[User:Paul 012]] and [[User:Henry Flower]] have gotten into a revert war with the anonymous editor who insists on using the Akbar photo. The original Akbar revision was made on 23:23, 18 May 2006. [[User:Paul 012]] reverted on 23:48, 18 May 2006. "Akbar" did his 1st revert on 23:58, 18 May 2006. [[User:Henry Flower]] did his 1st revert on 00:33, 19 May 2006. Akbar reverted a 2nd time on 00:36, 19 May 2006, and then a 3rd time on 06:29, 19 May 2006. I have left a warning on the [[User talk:203.144.143.9|203.144.143.9]]'s page. If 203.144.143.9 or 203.144.143.8 reverts a 4th time, could somebody please report this anonymous user for violations of the three revert rule [[WP:AN3|here]]. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 09:11, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


Reasonably balanced? That's debatable. But out of date? That's incontrovertible. This article seems to end with February 2010. I haven't examined the edit history, but if edits are responsible for the February cutoff, it's regrettable. [[User:Wbkelley|Wbkelley]] ([[User talk:Wbkelley|talk]]) 15:50, 1 June 2010 (UTC)


([[User:Yayaying|Yayaying]] ([[User talk:Yayaying|talk]]) 05:26, 21 February 2011 (UTC)) Section about Royal Decoration should be removed.
For the record: An anonymous editor replaced the headline photo of the article with one which several editors thought to be inappropriate (the "Akbar" photo). This anonymous editor has, to date, made ''5'' reverts of the article in a period just exceeding 24 hours, all in efforts to return "Akbar" to the article. The anonymous editor has used ''three'' IP addresses, and has been given warnings on the Talk pages of all ''three''. The anonymous editor has not responded to any attempts at discussion. One of these IP addresses was banned for 8 hours as a punitive measure.


== Politician? ==
I implore to all editors: Repeated reverts are contrary to the collaborative spirit of Wikipedia. Can't we all just get along and talk to each other? Mr. Anonymous, could you please explain why you think your picture of Thaksin standing alongside Mr. "Akbar" is more appropriate than the State Department Photo of Thaksin? I've already noted why I think the State Department photo is appropriate - but if you don't agree, please state your argument.


Editor [[User:IheartThailand|IheartThailand]] has several times removed the word "politician" from the lead, claiming that Thaksin is no longer a politician. I disagree, as his role in politics is precisely what he is best known for. Even if he doesn't hold an official government or opposition role, that is only because he was driven out of it by a military coup and a prosecution that has bitterly divided the country. Thaksin is still the de facto of leader of the Thai opposition, and addresses large political rallies by way of satellite communication - and I doubt there is a single person in Thailand who thinks his political activity is in the past. It is important for Wikipedia to stay [[WP:NPOV|neutral]], and adopt neither a pro nor anti-Thaksin stance, and neither a pro nor anti-monarchy stance regarding Thai politics. So, I bring it here to see what the consensus says - and I note that [[User:Frank]] appears to agree with me, and has also reverted [[User:IheartThailand|IheartThailand]]'s removal of the word "politician". [[User:Boing! said Zebedee|Boing! said Zebedee]] ([[User talk:Boing! said Zebedee|talk]]) 21:35, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
A warning and a question: Typical next steps in dispute resolution include Informal Mediation, Discussion with 3rd Parties, Surveys, Arbitration, and Protecting the page. However, Anonymous's refusal to discuss this issue is starting to imply that his/her edits do not represent a good-faith different point of view, but are simply vandalism. Since the vandal seems to be using multiple IP addresses, I do not believe that blocking any one of them will be effective in stopping the vandal. I would hate to Protect the Thaksin article, since this would prevent legitimate editors from improving the article. My question to the other editors is: what else can we do, besides endless reverts, to protect the integrity of the article? [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 08:56, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
* Yes, I do '''Support''' the designation of ''politician'' - we'd have much more difficulty establishing [[WP:N|notability]] were it not for his political activity. That he is no longer prime minister doesn't change things. And you never know what [[Marion Barry|might happen later]]. <small><span style="padding:2px;border:1px solid #000000">[[User:Frank|<span style="color:cyan;background:blue">&nbsp;Frank&nbsp;</span>]]&nbsp;{{!}}&nbsp;[[user_talk:Frank|<span style="color:blue;background:cyan">&nbsp;talk&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 21:51, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
*:Nice example :-) [[User:Boing! said Zebedee|Boing! said Zebedee]] ([[User talk:Boing! said Zebedee|talk]]) 21:56, 31 July 2010 (UTC)


== Resignation or not ==
:Should be treated as vandalism, I think. Including protection if no other way is possible. [[User:Paul 012|Paul C]] 18:55, 20 May 2006 (UTC)


Quote here http://www.asiantribune.com/news/2006/04/06/thaksin-resigns clearly states that Thaksin resigned as PM on 6/4/06. Therefore he cannot been ousted as PM by the Coup, but only as party leader. Unless, of course, he had un-resigned. The Coup didn't take place until September of that year. Comments invited.[[User:Sushisurprise|Sushisurprise]] ([[User talk:Sushisurprise|talk]]) 13:44, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
::The anonymous editor/vandal has struck again with a new IP (203.144.143.5), but this time he/she has given a rationale in his/her edit summary: "''Old picture is unsuitable in the eyes of many - new one is more recent''". Let me address this: just because the new photo is more recent doesn't automatically make it more appropriate. And I fail to see who the "many" people who think the old picture is unsuitable are - so far, the only "people" who have removed the old picture are all anonymous users with closely related IPs. To the "many" people who think the old picture unsuitable: make yourself known!
*[[Parliamentary system]]. PM resigns, parliament dissolves, parties campaign, new elections occur. Weeks before that last step, the military seized power and cancelled the elections.[[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] ([[User talk:Patiwat|talk]]) 12:43, 11 July 2011 (UTC)


== Unsourced allegations ==
::p.s., To Akbar, sorry if you've been involved in this ruckus without your knowledge. You're a fine looking chap, but it is not appropriate for you to be in the headline photo of a head of government. You deserve better than to be the focus of this childish revert war. If you really want people to admire your looks, could I suggest http://www.HOTorNOT.com.


The [[Thaksin_Shinawatra#Criticism|Criticism]] section contains a number of unsourced allegations, which I have tagged as needing citations. Whether or not they are true, [[WP:BLP]] policy requires that we do not host unsourced negative allegations against living persons. So unless these are sourced fairly soon, they will need to be removed -- [[User:Boing! said Zebedee|Boing! said Zebedee]] ([[User talk:Boing! said Zebedee|talk]]) 17:00, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
== The Finland Plan/Declaration/Strategy ==


== Moved from article ==
Rumors of the "Finland Plan/Strategy/Declaration" have been simmering for a couple of weeks, but now that the Bangkok Post, Bangkok Business Daily, and of course, Manager Daily, have latched on to it, I think it is now time to include mention of it in the article. The accusations are quite serious, and some compelling facts are being thrown around to back them up. Plus, this isn't one or two crazies making the accusations: a Senator, the Democrat Party, and others have joined in as well. Discussion of the so-called Plan can be seen here: http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showthread.php?p=9672 I refuse to hypothesize on whether the accusations are right or wrong, but I think it certainly deserves mention in this article. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 22:47, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


Oh this article gets almost amusing: his war on drugs was all about getting his dealers to offer suckers looking for 1g to go for 20g at a super cut-rate price; they would be arrested within seconds of their purchase, but possession of 20g qualifies you as a dealer and it enabled Thaksin to present glowing statistics about the number of dealers sentenced to 1g
:For a while I thought these accusations were too ridiculous to merit any comment, but what can I say? If anyone finds it necessary to add further details, let me suggest adding it to the [[Sondhi Limthongkul]] entry, since it`s been his newspaper after all that`s been beating the drum on this. Regards, [[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]] 03:48, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


And speaking of Thaksin without speaking of Temasek is speaking of the Pope without mentioning Catholicism.
== Source of the political crisis ==


--Arthur Borges 14:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
An anonymous editor had earlier added this sentence in to the background of the "Anti-Thaksin and pro-Thaksin rallies" section: "''The chief source of controversy has been Thaksin's overwhelming support in the poor Northeastern provinces and his own hometown of Chiang Mai and nearby areas, leading to the crisis being protrayed as a conflict between the urban middle class and the rural poor.''" Does this make any sense at all? How can the man's popularity among North/Northeastern voters be the chief source of the controversy? The article describes several factors involved, e.g., the Shin Corp sale, the lese-majesty/Royal Powers accusations, etc. But nowhere in the article is this class-struggle/regional-conflict thesis expanded upon. I'd suggest removing this sentence. Any thoughts? [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 11:07, 31 May 2006 (UTC)


== Residence ==
:I have removed this sentence. If somebody actually does have a reputable reference that claims that regional conflict or class struggle was the root cause of the crisis, then I'll be more than welcome to add the sentence back in. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 19:51, 1 June 2006 (UTC)


Where does he live now? [[User:YOMAL SIDOROFF-BIARMSKII|YOMAL SIDOROFF-BIARMSKII]] ([[User talk:YOMAL SIDOROFF-BIARMSKII|talk]]) 19:38, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
== Renaming "Stepping down" section? ==


== External links modified ==
Thaksin is back from leave. Could I suggest that the "Stepping down" section be renamed "Thaksin takes a political breather" or something? Because he never actually stepped down. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 11:27, 31 May 2006 (UTC)


Hello fellow Wikipedians,
:How about "'Break' from politics"? I think that's how The Nation chose to translate Thaksin's own words. [[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]] 11:25, 1 June 2006 (UTC)


I have just added archive links to {{plural:2|one external link|2 external links}} on [[Thaksin Shinawatra]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=686331793 my edit]. If necessary, add {{tlx|cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{tlx|nobots|deny{{=}}InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
::Done. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 19:48, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20071010025253/http://bangkokpost.net/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=112327 to http://bangkokpost.net/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=112327
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20071006090211/http://bangkokpost.net/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=120634 to http://bangkokpost.net/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=120634


When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the ''checked'' parameter below to '''true''' to let others know.
== Article needs further cleanup ==


{{sourcecheck|checked=true}}
[[User:Herrk]] has suggested that the article needs further cleanup. Could some specific suggestions be made about what needs cleanup? [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 16:54, 8 June 2006 (UTC)


Cheers. —[[User:Cyberbot II|<sup style="color:green;font-family:Courier">cyberbot II</sup>]]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS">[[User talk:Cyberbot II|<span style="color:green">Talk to my owner</span>]]:Online</sub></small> 14:12, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
I certainly can!


== External links modified ==
At present, the article is 71kb long, whereas 32kb is the wikipedia recommendation.
For articles exceeding 50kb, the suggestion is to devide. However, "the scope of a topic can sometimes justify the added reading time".


Hello fellow Wikipedians,
For the article at hand, I do not think that this is in any way the case. Especially when put into
account that the highly regraded King Bhumibol Adulyadej only received a 43kb-article - despite
being king of Thailand for 60 years! King Bhumibol Adulyadej most certainly deserves more attention
than Thaksin Shinawatra and has had a lot more impact than the latter.


I have just added archive links to {{plural:2|one external link|2 external links}} on [[Thaksin Shinawatra]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=698437643 my edit]. If necessary, add {{tlx|cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{tlx|nobots|deny{{=}}InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
The article 'History of Thailand since 1973' would be a more appropriate place for most of what is
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080809224702/http://www.voanews.com:80/english/2008-07-30-voa9.cfm to http://voanews.com/english/2008-07-30-voa9.cfm
posted here.
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080919033058/http://ap.google.com:80/article/ALeqM5gXtkIJGFlHXR5qT3LIG2olEVZyFQD937JQ1O0 to http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gXtkIJGFlHXR5qT3LIG2olEVZyFQD937JQ1O0


When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the ''checked'' parameter below to '''true''' to let others know.
*Does this reflect the views of the editor who put up the "clean up" tag? I question this because "needs clean up" seems quite different from "needs shortening". That being said, the article should be summarized down, but I don't see the use of comparing it to the size of the King's article. I'll make a try at summarization of some parts, rather than wholesale removal of entire sections. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 17:39, 9 June 2006 (UTC)


{{sourcecheck|checked=true}}
**I didn't realize that you [[User:Herrk]] were the editor that had put up the "clean up" tag. Apologies. Please sign your discussions with four tildes. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 17:45, 9 June 2006 (UTC)


Cheers.—[[User:Cyberbot II|<sup style="color:green;font-family:Courier">cyberbot II</sup>]]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS">[[User talk:Cyberbot II|<span style="color:green">Talk to my owner</span>]]:Online</sub></small> 02:52, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
*I've shortened the article down to 59kB by rewording and removing redundant info in less than half the sections. I'll have another go at it later, but I think this will result in a much smaller and easier to read article, without compromising any significant insights and info. Some sections, like the "Energy policy" section might be a bit difficult for me though, because of its controversial nature. Also note that the massive number of references in the article adds significantly to its size - the references alone account for about 15-20kB. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 22:05, 9 June 2006 (UTC)


== External links modified ==


Hello fellow Wikipedians,


I have just added archive links to {{plural:3|one external link|3 external links}} on [[Thaksin Shinawatra]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=703972630 my edit]. If necessary, add {{tlx|cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{tlx|nobots|deny{{=}}InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
The "Clean up" tag is applied appropriatly here in deed. It is supposed to be used used for ''articles with problems (ungrammatical, poorly formatted, confusing, etc.)'' And the mass of redundant information on the subject which was in the article before Patiwat's laudable effort justified the term confusing.
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090419102042/http://www.thaksin.net:80/life.html to http://www.thaksin.net/life.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080529234341/http://my.reset.jp:80/~adachihayao/040503C.htm to http://my.reset.jp/~adachihayao/040503C.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080720192841/http://www.aseanfocus.com/asiananalysis/article.cfm?articleID=838 to http://www.aseanfocus.com/asiananalysis/article.cfm?articleID=838


When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the ''checked'' parameter below to '''true''' to let others know.
However, a lot of superfluous quotes still remain. As you know, in order to quote academically correct, it sufficies to set a footnote link as reference. Additional literal quotes are dispensable, particularly in an encyclopedia. Taking them out would pretty much do the job without curbing the content.[[User:Herrk|Herrk]] 06:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)Herrk


{{sourcecheck|checked=false}}
Thanks [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] for your work in trimming down the article without losing much of the substance. A few things I did think needed to be added back in, however - one was the fine for a technical violation imposed on Pantongtae in the aftermath of the Shin sale; the other was a brief note about Thaksin's high school alma mater - i think it's worth noting however briefly, that Montfort College is among the most elite schools in Chiangmai, and possibly within the entire northern region. Regards, [[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]] 15:08, 10 June 2006 (UTC)


Cheers.—[[User:Cyberbot II|<sup style="color:green;font-family:Courier">cyberbot II</sup>]]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS">[[User talk:Cyberbot II|<span style="color:green">Talk to my owner</span>]]:Online</sub></small> 19:40, 8 February 2016 (UTC)


== External links modified ==
I decisively disagree with Patiwat. The fine imposed is supposed to be mentioned in his, Pantongtae's, article, not his farther's.


Hello fellow Wikipedians,
Montfort College's reputation does not belong here, either.
A stub exists on this institution where, if necessary, an elaboration on the subject matter can be put and a link to it posted in the Taksin Shinawatra-entry. [[User:Herrk|Herrk]] 17:24, 10 June 2006 (UTC)Herrk


I have just added archive links to {{plural:3|one external link|3 external links}} on [[Thaksin Shinawatra]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=707339497 my edit]. If necessary, add {{tlx|cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{tlx|nobots|deny{{=}}InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*"Decisively disagree" with me? That sounds very dramatic, [[User:Herrk|Herrk]], but please realize I was the editor who deleted the mention of Pantongtae's fine! [[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]], I understand why you might want to include mention of the Pantongtae's fine, as many people view Pantongtae as being a tool of his father - hence the sins of the son are the sins of the father. But in hindsight, Pantongtae's error wasn't really major, as the SEC found in its investigation. I therefore don't think it should be included in Thaksin's article. I'm open to different perspectives on this issue though. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 04:38, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20080422013542/http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iGyl8id3WaUZT4V3dWbNkTxKe42QD8VBM34O0 to http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iGyl8id3WaUZT4V3dWbNkTxKe42QD8VBM34O0
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20120929034209/http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/storypage.aspx?StoryID=123943 to http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/storypage.aspx?StoryID=123943
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20081029195801/http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h6ljC-lNwiNjsZvTOWKfVTImItGgD928KRS80 to http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h6ljC-lNwiNjsZvTOWKfVTImItGgD928KRS80


When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the ''checked'' parameter below to '''true''' or '''failed''' to let others know (documentation at {{tl|Sourcecheck}}).
::The original summarized version by [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] mentions that Thaksin, his daughter, Shin executives and other associates were investigated by the SEC and cleared of all wrongdoing. If we're going to include that bit of information, then what's the logic in selectively omitting any mention of Thaksin's son? It should be noted that he was investigated, like everyone else, and charged with a small fine for a rather technical violation (I will try to incorporate the notion that the infraction was minor into the sentence). This section of the article is about the Shin sale (an extremely significant event in Thaksin's political career, I might add) and the findings against Pantongthae concluded the official investigation into that sale. Regards, [[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]] 12:26, 11 June 2006 (UTC)


{{sourcecheck|checked=false}}
*I agree with [[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]] that Montford should be mentioned as an elite high-school. It is mentioned in the article that the Shinawatra family was at the peak of Chiang Mai society - it reinforces this to note that Thaksin attended the most elite school in the Northern region (apologies to any Prince Royal alum). An educated Thai person might know that Montford is an elite school, as an educated westerner would know that Eton and Stuyvesant are elite schools. But the readership of Wikipedia is international, and such culture-specific knowledge should not be presumed. Lastly, I don't think the reader should have to click on every link in order to understand such nuisances and subtleties - if it can be noted in a concise manner in the main text of the article, it should. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 04:54, 11 June 2006 (UTC)


Cheers.—[[User:Cyberbot II|<sup style="color:green;font-family:Courier">cyberbot II</sup>]]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS">[[User talk:Cyberbot II|<span style="color:green">Talk to my owner</span>]]:Online</sub></small> 07:54, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
== Article cleaned up ==


== External links modified ==
After scrutinising the article a bit closer, I could not help but noticing that the "facts"
presented were highly selective and bascially no proper citation was given.


Hello fellow Wikipedians,
Most of the links HTML links were irrelevant (e.g. footnotes 15,16,18,23,24,25,26 etc.)
or inadequantly set.


I have just modified {{plural:5|one external link|5 external links}} on [[Thaksin Shinawatra]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=748655592 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:
Others (e.g. footnotes 21,31,35 etc.) were dead links.
*Added {{tlx|dead link}} tag to https://www.jobtopgun.com/profile/searchprofile?id_emp=255
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090419131607/http://www.ccc.nps.navy.mil/si/2005/Jun/croissantJun05.asp to http://www.ccc.nps.navy.mil/si/2005/Jun/croissantJun05.asp
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061108195531/http://www.asianbarometer.org/newenglish/publications/workingpapers/no.28.pdf to http://www.asianbarometer.org/newenglish/publications/workingpapers/no.28.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060820004448/http://www.bangkokpost.net:80/midyear2004/health01.html to http://www.bangkokpost.net/midyear2004/health01.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120402164354/http://thailandtimes.asia/thailand-news/thaksins-drug-murders-investigated/ to http://thailandtimes.asia/thailand-news/thaksins-drug-murders-investigated/
*Added {{tlx|dead link}} tag to http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=3502
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090105005405/http://enews.mcot.net:80/view.php?id=6793 to http://enews.mcot.net/view.php?id=6793


When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the ''checked'' parameter below to '''true''' or '''failed''' to let others know (documentation at {{tlx|Sourcecheck}}).
Some were take from unreliable sources such as forwarded Google news group
threats which where labeled to be taken from newspapers (e.g.3) or
reverences to biased blog entries (e.g. 63)


{{sourcecheck|checked=false}}
Besides of dealing with those bogus citations, I took the liberty of removing
quotes which were too long or irrelevant for the subject (such as that Dr. Taksin
Shinawatra used to make coffee AND was the dishes in his younger days).


Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 13:42, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
The same has been particularly done for the several apologetic remarks
on "highly criticised/effective" meassures implemented by the government.
Additionally, in cases of not complete neutrality or biasedness, such
as the remark that people were weeping in response to a certain action.


== External links modified ==
I tried to give the article adequante lenght and style. However,
a lot of citations are still needed. The section on privatisation,
in my point of view, is still disproportionally long with regard to the
person.


Hello fellow Wikipedians,
Maybe a couple of other users involved would improve the quality of
the article.


I have just modified 15 external links on [[Thaksin Shinawatra]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=798829721 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:
Going through the wikipedia guidelines on verifiability of facts and
*Added archive https://archive.is/20030702173146/http://www.aseanfocus.com/asiananalysis/article.cfm?articleID=99 to http://www.aseanfocus.com/asiananalysis/article.cfm?articleID=99
neutral POV might as well.
*Added {{tlx|dead link}} tag to http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=%2F2006%2F4%2F2%2Ffocus%2F13836842&sec=focus
[[User:Herrk|Herrk]] 03:31, 11 June 2006 (UTC)herrk
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111002103432/http://enews.mcot.net/view.php?id=9530&t=4 to http://enews.mcot.net/view.php?id=9530&t=4
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.bangkokpost.net/midyear2004/health01.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070915130111/http://www.article2.org/mainfile.php/0402/ to http://www.article2.org/mainfile.php/0402/
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.thaiembdc.org/politics/govtment/policy/54thpolicy/policy_e.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060917045902/http://internationalviewpoint.org/article.php3?id_article=1009 to http://www.internationalviewpoint.org/article.php3?id_article=1009
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=3502
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061008104423/http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article1621779.ece to http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article1621779.ece
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061012000000/http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/read.php?newsid=30015265 to http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/read.php?newsid=30015265
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090323004713/http://news.smashits.com/281898/Former-Thai-premier-seeks-asylum-in-Britain.htm to http://news.smashits.com/281898/Former-Thai-premier-seeks-asylum-in-Britain.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090417054235/http://www.gmanews.tv/story/120997/Thai-court-issues-fresh-warrant-for-ex-PM-Thaksin to http://www.gmanews.tv/story/120997/Thai-court-issues-fresh-warrant-for-ex-PM-Thaksin
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://enews.mcot.net/view.php?id=6793
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090418023813/http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/nation/view/20081110-171229/RP-closes-door-on-Thaksin to http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/nation/view/20081110-171229/RP-closes-door-on-Thaksin
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090418065844/http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iIJDty8bXGTsp4wJ0RfqmtmSKzMg to http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iIJDty8bXGTsp4wJ0RfqmtmSKzMg
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090418064751/http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gEpvCQ8QzDppeQTiAAWBHv91BoPA to http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gEpvCQ8QzDppeQTiAAWBHv91BoPA


When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
*Regarding the dead links, please note that all of them can be retrieved from the Internet Archive at http://www.archive.org. They should therefore be returned to the article. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 03:40, 11 June 2006 (UTC)


{{sourcecheck|checked=false|needhelp=}}
*Your accusation of "bogus citations" is quite incorrect. Usenet postings of newspaper articles were used for citations rather than direct links to newspaper articles because the online archives of the Bangkok Post and The Nation (Thailand's main english language dailies) simply do not go back that far. I don't think those newspapers even had websites in the early 90s. [[User:Herrk|Herrk]], this was documented quite clearly in the Discussion page archives, namely the "Complete rewrite of "Entry Into Politics" section" posting. You erased well over a dozen citations. Could you please add them back in, and erase your "citation needed" tags where appropriate. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 04:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)


Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 02:11, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
*[[User:Herrk|Herrk]], you have replaced several valid and relevant citations with the "citation needed" tag. For instance, I cited the article at http://www.pathfinder.com/asiaweek/97/1010/nat2.html to back up Suthep Thaugsuban's accusations that Thaksin used insider information to profit on the Baht devaluation of 1997. The link works, Asiaweek.com is a reasonably reputable news source, and the accusation is clearly mentioned in the fourth paragraph. Yet you replaced the citation with the "citation needed" tag. This seems to have occured for many other citations as well. If this is a misunderstanding or clerical error, could you please revert back to the original citations. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 04:17, 11 June 2006 (UTC)


== External links modified ==


Hello fellow Wikipedians,
Please,Patiwat, I outlined my reasons. Please read my previous threat. That article reads
thorough editing. [[User:Herrk|Herrk]] 05:05, 11 June 2006 (UTC)Herrk


I have just modified 31 external links on [[Thaksin Shinawatra]]. Please take a moment to review [[special:diff/809167298|my edit]]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:
*I agree with your reasons that that the article needs editing, but adding incorrect edits isn't helping. You've done some good work already, so could you please double check your work, as requested above? Otherwise, I'll do it for you. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 07:06, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140512225851/http://graphicsweb.wsj.com/documents/CAROUSEL2013/?standalone=1&slug=THAILAND1126 to http://graphicsweb.wsj.com/documents/CAROUSEL2013/?standalone=1&slug=THAILAND1126
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*Corrected formatting/usage for http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=%2F2006%2F4%2F2%2Ffocus%2F13836842&sec=focus
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110402084912/http://www.economynews.us/economy/thaksin-shinawatra-leverages-montenegrin-citizenship to http://www.economynews.us/economy/thaksin-shinawatra-leverages-montenegrin-citizenship/
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061031063056/http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/10/13/national/national_30016065.php to http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/10/13/national/national_30016065.php
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071016205115/http://etna.mcot.net/query.php?nid=19066 to http://etna.mcot.net/query.php?nid=19066
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100527095707/http://the-diplomat.com/2010/03/21/thailand%E2%80%99s-blood-red-protest/ to http://the-diplomat.com/2010/03/21/thailand%E2%80%99s-blood-red-protest/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160303215020/http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2005/06/01/national/index.php?news=national_17552513.html to http://nationmultimedia.com/2005/06/01/national/index.php?news=national_17552513.html
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081228223320/http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=45052&sectionid=351020406 to http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=45052&sectionid=351020406
*Added {{tlx|dead link}} tag to http://www.bernama.com.my/bernama/v3/news_world.php?id=359732
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100304132514/http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/03/01/columnists/Door-now-open-for-more-agencies-to-reclaim-their-m-30123674.html to http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/03/01/columnists/Door-now-open-for-more-agencies-to-reclaim-their-m-30123674.html
*Added {{tlx|dead link}} tag to http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2002/B/014/1.PDF
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111128112113/http://www.rfi.fr/anglais/actu/articles/112/article_3492.asp to http://www.rfi.fr/anglais/actu/articles/112/article_3492.asp


When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
*[[User:Herrk|Herrk]], one of your many edits was to make "Accused of "Finland Plan"" a top-level section and making "Returning from "leave"" a sub-section under it. Could you explain your reasoning for this? I don't really see how Thaksin's return from leave has anything to do with the Finland Plan accusations. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 08:12, 11 June 2006 (UTC)


{{sourcecheck|checked=false|needhelp=}}
:[[User:Herrk|Herrk]], no links last forever. If there is a full citation of a newspaper article MLA style, then there's no need to delete the entire citation. Just remove the link, and have the citation exist in text only. Those with access to news archives could easily look it up based only on the info provided in the citation itself. Regards, [[User:Tettyan|Tettyan]] 12:56, 11 June 2006 (UTC)


Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 14:51, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
[[User:Herrk|Herrk]], you've done some great work! Some of those citations are much more relevant than the older ones. Some questions though:
*You write that in 1990, Thaksin was almost broke, yet won the Thaicom satellite bid. This isn't backed up by the citation. If anything, he was quite successful in 1990, as SCC was listed on the SET in that year. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 16:18, 11 June 2006 (UTC)


== Unsupported content ==
The quotation reads -quote: ''In 1990 when Thaksin made a successful bid for a 20-year concession from the Telephone Organization of Thailand he was almost broke, as reported by Post reporters, but still had the daring to offer the TOT 20 billion baht in concession fees to garner the contract. Thaksin has never lacked for courage it seems.'' and it is taken from the BKK Post election profil 2001; I think it suffices.


The followng is supported by a dead link. Remove it?
As for the following:I wrote "designed by Thaksin and other Thai Rak Thai co-founders aimed at taking control of Thailand and replacing Thailand's constitutional monarchy with a regime dominated by Thaksin and his cronies." I assumed it entailed your 1), did it not?


"In a November 2009 interview, Thaksin told The Times that he was living in Dubai, still had access to about $100 million of his money outside of Thailand, and was investing in gold mines, diamond polishing and lottery licenses in various countries."
As for the other points: You sure got a point there. Yet, those accusations can backfire badly on the accussers. That would be the moment when the discussion of this "fiendish" plan would, I think you can guess, be rather be dealt with in the "Finland plan" article, I suppose. But [[Be bold]]!


Ping: [[User:Farang Rak Tham]]
Besides, once those issue are dealt with and the few remaining citations update, I feel that the
clean up-tag will no longer be needed. What do you figure?[[User:Herrk|Herrk]] 16:39, 11 June 2006 (UTC)Herrkk


Cheers. [[User:Anna Frodesiak|Anna Frodesiak]] ([[User talk:Anna Frodesiak|talk]]) 19:14, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
*You deleted lots of details on the Finland Declaration, noting that it is a scheme aimed at creating a "regime dominated by Thaksin and his cronies". I have 3 issues with this. 1) It doesn't make clear that the accusation is much more serious that that - he is being publically accused of trying to topple the monarchy, which is rebellion of the highest order in Thailand. 2) It doesn't mention that the Democrats have supported the Finland accusations, unlike many of Sondhi & co.'s earlier accusations (adultery, allying with Satan to destroy the Erawan Shrine, etc.). This lends the Finland accusations much more legitimacy. 3) It ignores the fact that the accusations of toppling the monarchy are being made during the nation-wide celebration of the King's 60th anniversary on the throne. The combination of these three elements is quite a serious blow against Thaksin, and some mention is quite neccesary in the article. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 16:18, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
: Sources that are no longer online are allowed on Wikipedia, unsourced content not. [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Thaksin_Shinawatra&diff=next&oldid=839278293 I replaced the dead link though].--<span style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC">[[User:Farang Rak Tham|<span style="color:blue;font-weight:900">Farang Rak Tham</span>]] [[User talk:Farang Rak Tham|(Talk)]]</span> 20:07, 2 May 2018 (UTC)


::Thank you. I couldn't find a replacement. [[User:Anna Frodesiak|Anna Frodesiak]] ([[User talk:Anna Frodesiak|talk]]) 20:10, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
*Apologies there [[User:Herrk|Herrk]], my mind always mixes up "constitutional monarch" (the individual) with "democracy with monarch as leader" (the system). Sondhi & Co have been accusing Thaksin of trying to destroy the later for a long time, but only recently have they taken to accusing him of trying to overthrow the former. I had already gone ahead and made some edits to that parapraph - could you see if you are OK with it? As for covering it in a seperate article, I'm not sure that is approporiate right now. Thaksin is clearly the one being hurt by these accusations (whether they are right or wrong is another matter) and they should be included in his article. If it later turns out that there is no historical significance, we can always just shorten it down later. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 21:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)


== B-class article ==
That is your personal evaluation that Thaksin is being "hurt" by those accusations. The way it is now, it seems that "Sondhi & Co"
are willingly trying to disturb the celebrations and Thaksin, despite opening the ceremonial procedures, is "hurt". I will put "in retaliation" back into the article, for reasons outlined below.


That this is rated as a B-class article demonstrates how worthless classification of articles is. [[User:Seligne|Seligne]] ([[User talk:Seligne|talk]]) 12:53, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
*I think that your edit is reasonable and your interpretation correct. What I would ideally like to do is include in the article any public polling results to a question like "Do you believe that the Prime Minister is behind the Finland Plot to overthrow the monarchy". Without such data, I'm relying on The Nation, which wrote that "Senior political scientists with PhDs like Chai-anan and Pramote know very well that highlighting the deeply sensitive issue of royal power is an effective way of damaging their opponent's political reputation." Plus historically, accusations of plots against the monarchy are rare but extremely effective. To my knowledge, this tool has only been used twice in Thai history: 1) in 1976, which resulted in the mass murder and rape of students at Thammasat, and 2) in the 40's, when "Pridi shot the King" accusations forced Pridi Bhanomyong into exile. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 03:01, 12 June 2006 (UTC)


:The rating was given before C-class existed. Feel free to change it. --[[User:Paul 012|Paul_012]] ([[User talk:Paul 012|talk]]) 11:26, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
== Energy policies / Privatization summarization ==


I'd rather try to make it B-class. [[User:Seligne|Seligne]] ([[User talk:Seligne|talk]]) 13:00, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
I have shortened down the Energy policies / Privatization section, and moved the detailed contents to the [[Energy Industry Liberalization and Privatization (Thailand)]] article, which should give that topic the historical perspective it deserves. I've debated Thaksin's privatization policies with many editors over many months, and know that my summarized version might still be controversial. Well, [[be bold]] and edit away! And please remember, detailed analysis should go in either the [[Energy Industry Liberalization and Privatization (Thailand)]] article or the [[ Policies of the Thaksin government#Energy policies]] article. The summarized version should, as always, be as concise and neutral as possible. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 08:04, 11 June 2006 (UTC)


== Unsourced ==
Fair enough. I might need your help with some of the older quotes, though. If for some
claims a prober source can't be cited, what would you reckon? Delete? I would be more in favour of
leaving the "citation needed" tag on in such a case. A wrong or mixed up citation, however,
must, naturally, be avoided.[[User:Herrk|Herrk]] 08:11, 11 June 2006 (UTC)Herrk


I removed the following from the War on Drugs section:
*To me, adding a "citation needed" tag to controversial info increases the credibility and value of the article, whereas deleting the controversial info often leaves awkward gaps. I tend to leave a "citation needed" tag for a few days to a few weeks, in the hopes that somebody reading the article will attribute a correct source. Eventually, if the information is controversial, it will either be deleted, sourced, or adjusted in a way that makes the issue irrelevant. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 08:42, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
*Thaksin initiated several highly controversial policies to counter a perceived boom in the Thai drug market, particularly in [[methamphetamine]]. Earlier policies like border blocking (most methamphetamine is produced in [[Myanmar]]), education, sports, and promoting peer pressure had proved ineffective. In a 4 December 2002 speech on the eve of his birthday, King Bhumibol noted the rise in drug use and called for a "War on Drugs." Privy Councillor Phichit Kunlawanit called on the government to use its majority in parliament to establish a special court to deal with drug dealers, stating that "if we execute 60,000 the land will rise and our descendants will escape bad karma".<ref>Michael K. Connors, [http://sovereignmyth.blogspot.com/2009/09/ambivalent-about-rights.html Ambivalent About Rights: "Accidental" Killing Machines, Democracy and Coups D’etat.], Draft paper presented to Human Rights in Asia Workshop, University of Melbourne, 1–2 October 2009.</ref>
*The government went out of its way to publicise the campaign, through daily announcements of arrest, seizure, and death statistics. According to the Narcotics Control Board, the policy was effective in reducing drug consumption, especially in schools, by increasing the market price.
*As of the August 2011 parliamentary elections, Abhisit's investigation failed to find or publicise any conclusive evidence linking Thaksin or members of his Government to any extrajudicial killings. [[User:Signedzzz|zzz]] ([[User talk:Signedzzz|talk]]) 14:44, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
{{reflist talk}}


==NPOV==
== Who is Kasit? ==
[[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]], again: wikipedia is an encyclopedia. It is about facts which can be proven from reliable sources.
It is about objectivity.


Who is Kasit? <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/98.218.85.118|98.218.85.118]] ([[User talk:98.218.85.118#top|talk]]) 03:37, 27 December 2021 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
You claim to "loath" Thaksin, yet you edit the article in a way which is apologetic and favourable towards him by,
e.g. insisting on putting into the article that Thaksin has been accusing of aligning with "dark forces". This
is a claim likly that is considered to be absurd and will be interpreted that way by the reader - and again fall back on "Sondhi&Co.", as you call them.


== A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion ==
Beside, that accusation is not at all at the center of what "Sondhi&Co.". Remember: just by claiming some expertise on a subject, facts can not be generated. But existing ones can be proven by the means of citation of relyable sources.
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
* [[commons:File:Thaksinposter.JPG|Thaksinposter.JPG]]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion | 2023-03-23T05:08:15.744429 | Thaksinposter.JPG -->
Participate in the deletion discussion at the [[commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Thaksinposter.JPG|nomination page]]. —[[User:Community Tech bot|Community Tech bot]] ([[User talk:Community Tech bot|talk]]) 05:08, 23 March 2023 (UTC)


== Wrong jail ==
Thaksin does not need "help" from us. He can help himself and probably does so by employing somebody, maybe two people,
who monitor this entry. It is common practice in Thailand to draft cyper spin doctors in order to polish your appearance on web boards etc., as you know.


Thaksin is jailed at Bangkok Remand Prison, not Klong Prem Central Prison. Just wanted to point it out. Sources: [https://www.nationthailand.com/thailand/politics/40030410 1], [https://www.thaipbsworld.com/no-inmate-visits-at-bangkok-remand-prison-the-day-thaksin-returns/ 2], [https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2023/08/23/thaksin-flies-in-emergency-incident-whisked-away-to-hospital-prison/ 3] [[User:DylanDoesWiki|DylanDoesWiki]] ([[User talk:DylanDoesWiki|talk]]) 14:38, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
Neither do "Sondhi&Co.".


:Done. While the facilities are technically separate, they're part of the same complex, so sources sometimes refer to them interchangeably (if inaccurately). I've redirected the title for now, though it will need some sorting out. --[[User:Paul_012|Paul_012]] ([[User talk:Paul_012|talk]]) 15:11, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
But wikipedia does in terms of safeguarding its quality standards!
:: Thailand's ex-PM Thaksin to serve 8 years in jail - court statement
[[User:Herrk|Herrk]] 02:08, 12 June 2006 (UTC)Herrk


https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/thailands-ex-pm-thaksin-serve-8-years-jail-court-statement-2023-08-22/[[Special:Contributions/49.228.35.238|49.228.35.238]] ([[User talk:49.228.35.238|talk]]) 20:18, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
*Look, this isn't a place to debate politics. This is a biographical article about Thaksin. Prominent critics have made significant public accusations against Thaksin, which were then reported in respectible newspapers. When these accusations have significant impact against Thaksin's popularity, then why shouldn't these facts be cited in the article? Whether I like Thaksin or not, or whether Thaksin needs my help or not, or whether I agree with the accusations or not is irrelevant. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 02:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)


== Merge proposal ==
*Besides, there is a very thin line about what is "absurd" in Thai politics. You might think that the public regards Sondhi is absurd for accusing Thaksin of destroying the Erawan Shrine. But hundreds of thousands of people still supported Sondhi. Thaksin's popularity has continued to fall. Some people obviously take Sondhi's accusations against Thaksin very seriously, and that is why those accusations were mentioned in earlier versions of the article. Now just days before the King's anniversary, Sondhi has accused Thaksin of trying to overthrow the monarchy. Do you think this is absurd, and lacks all credibility? The press and Opposition are taking it seriously. And how about Sondhi's other accusations, e.g., that Thaksin is corrupt, that he is a dictator, etc. Are these absurd as well? I'm not going to draw a line between what I personally think is absurd and not. I'm just going to continue to cite reliable sources about things that have a significant impact on the subject of this article. [[User:Patiwat|Patiwat]] 02:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi all, it seems a bit odd to me that [[Thaksin Shinawatra's entry into politics]] is a separate article from this one. This article is certainly on the long side, so I can see the argument for a [[WP:SIZESPLIT]], but I don't think the "entry into politics" section of his article is extensive enough to be a useful split target. To that end, I think it would be worth merging the "entry into politics" article back into here. [[User:ModernDayTrilobite|ModernDayTrilobite]] ([[User talk:ModernDayTrilobite|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/ModernDayTrilobite|contribs]]) 15:51, 22 November 2023 (UTC)


:Maybe this should be a discussion about how best to structure coverage on Thakain's political career aside from his premiership, which already has its own article. --[[User:Paul_012|Paul_012]] ([[User talk:Paul_012|talk]]) 05:49, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
Do you mind if I asked: can you read? Replies would not refer in any point made before.
::I just took a somewhat deeper dive into the article histories. As things stand now, [[Thaksin Shinawatra's entry into politics]] is almost identical to the [[Thaksin Shinawatra#Entry into politics|"Entry into politics" section]] of this very article, with much of the text repeated nearly or exactly verbatim between the two locations. Looking at the page history of the two articles, it appears that a user created the "entry into politics" page in 2007 by [[Special:Diff/123453576|cutting]] and [[Special:Permalink/123453607|pasting]] the relevant section of Thaksin's main article; another user subsequently reverted the removal of that content from the main article, leading to identical text being duplicated across two articles, and in the ensuing sixteen years, both versions of the text have diverged from each other in only minor ways.{{pb}}While I can certainly see a case in general for the existence of a standalone article on Thaksin's early political career, the tangled and redundant nature of this particular situation leads me to believe that a merge is the best solution here. [[User:ModernDayTrilobite|ModernDayTrilobite]] ([[User talk:ModernDayTrilobite|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/ModernDayTrilobite|contribs]]) 18:18, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
[[User:Herrk|Herrk]] 03:09, 12 June 2006 (UTC)Herrk
:::Thanks for looking into it. In that case that page can probably be redirected here until someone wants to attempt a proper reorganisation (in which case, I'm thiking a [[Political career of Thaksin Shinawatra]] would be more natural.) --[[User:Paul_012|Paul_012]] ([[User talk:Paul_012|talk]]) 06:59, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
::::Thanks for carrying out the redirect! I agree with your thinking that [[Political career of Thaksin Shinawatra]] would be the ideal title for a new split-out article, if/when someone tries their hand at it. [[User:ModernDayTrilobite|ModernDayTrilobite]] ([[User talk:ModernDayTrilobite|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/ModernDayTrilobite|contribs]]) 15:08, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 08:30, 26 October 2024

Length of article

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I've done a check and discovered that this is the 4th-longest article on a national leader of any at the English Wikipedia. Only Bush, Blair and Berlusconi have longer articles. This article is longer than those for Chirac, Hu Jintao, Putin, Merkel or Koizumi. With all due respect to Thailand, I don't think any one would argue that it is the 4th most important country in the world, or Thaksin a more important figure than Hu Jintao or Putin. The reason this article is so long is that Patiwat keeps writing more and more and more material. At my urging we have already created two spin-off articles, Policies of the Thaksin government and Thailand political crisis 2005-2006. If these three articles are taken together, there is probably more material at Wikipedia about Thaksin than about any current national leader except Bush. Yet still the article keeps growing. I admire Patiwat's industry, but this article is now as big as it needs to be, and Patiwat should stop writing more and more detailed coverage of Thaksin's policies in every conceivable area. Adam 10:28, 23 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • I think maybe we should all focus on expanding the branch articles, and possible establishing some more new ones. From the history of this entry, I know several administrators do watch this entry on a regular basis. Any of them would like to weigh in on this matter? Tettyan 14:21, 23 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Frankly, I do not think that Thailand's importance in the world has any relevance to how long the article is. Thaksin, through his policies and his actions, has been one of the most controversial Prime Ministers in Thai history. A controversial topic requires factual support for all key sides of the argument - and this requires material. I've already made several attempts to shorten things down significantly. If an abler editor is able to summarize this material in a more concise manner, while still retaining factuality and neutrality, then please go ahead. Be bold! Furthermore, Thaksin's career is a current event. Some of these events might be of historical importance, some not - but in the thick of things, it is pretty darn hard to judge. Right now, Thaksin is at a critical stage in his political career. Nobody is really sure what is going to happen 6 months from now on. In this situation, I've always felt it more important to err on the side of being factual and informative, rather than being brief and high-level. Things can always be moved or removed or edited if history or discussion among the editors deems that it is not relevant. Patiwat 21:17, 23 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'll be bold and say the article is not long enough. There are several topics which, in my opinion, absolutely need expansion.
    • Corruption. The article contains many weasely second-hand allegations of corruption, but I see no hard facts, clear examples, or reputable citations. What about C-130? What about the airport?
    • Stacking independent comissions with his people. Again, second-hand allegations of this are noted in the article, but the only example given is Chaiyasit Shinawatra. What about Khunying Charuwan? What about the Constitution Court? What about the EC?
      • I've finally added 2 sentences mentioning the Khunying Jaruvan controversy, as well as a link to her article. The reason this is mentioned at all is to substantiate the "complaints that Thaksin has been stacking the civil service and independent commissions with his buddies" criticism. I hope this doesn't make the article too long. Patiwat 03:00, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • The article is sufficiently divided and the length is explained by the volume of news related to Thaksin personally as a Businessman or public person, and not as an elected representative. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.176.106.71 (talk) 07:43, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I must admit I've occasionally meddled on this page, but I now feel that as an excyclopedic entry on a deposed tin-pot dictator this is far too long. It can't be Wikipedia's job to give more than a starting point for people who want to research the nitty-gritty of his undistinguished career. I'd suggest: Early Career, Rise to Power, Time in Office, After the Fall (or something, and this should be very brief), Criticism. And Criticism divided into a few broad areas: Corruption and conflicts of interest, Human rights abuses, Divisiveness, each meriting no more than two or three sentences simply summing up the broad charges.Properly referenced, that could guide the reader where he needs to go if she wants to know more. We don't need the war on drugs in seven different instances, eternally editing and re-editing over what the king really said, or detail each entanglement of Shin Corp.Sartoresartus (talk) 03:22, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree that the article is quite long. It would be great to summarize it and remove any irrelevant information. Some information can be moved to a seperate article. For example, AIS can be summarized and the information can be moved to the "Advanced Info Service" article.nogia123 (talk) 09:04, 15 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

He is not Thai

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He is Chinese. Why Chinese are allowed to run foreign country??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.129.8.205 (talk) 03:22, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

He's 15/16ths Thai, 1/16th Chinese. Jim Michael (talk) 16:18, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Dear Sir

He was born in Thailand, so he is a Thai. He is good or bad, follow the news, and judge.

Being born in Thailand doesn't necessarily mean you gain Thai nationality. But to the best of my knowledge Thaksin S. is a Thai national.TheHamburger (talk) 07:24, 19 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

New edits

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As the above comment indicates, the passionate are out in force again. Thanks for semi-protecting it. Even so, could those who wish to fulminate about the April 2009 protests please do that in the relevant section, right down at the bottom, now headed "self-imposed exile", and not in the introduction, where it doesn't belong (I've removed most of the addition for now). A lot of people have put some effort into tidying up the article, so perhaps as a matter of courtesy if nothing else, please scan the headings before unleashing the force of your rhetoric upon the stunned masses. Ideally the intro should I think be framed on the average laptop screen without scrolling: see the Winston Churchill entry as a good model (and by all means help condense what there is already).Sartoresartus (talk) 03:39, 18 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Thanks for your neutral suggestions. Ddave2425 (talk) 10:13, 30 April 2009 (UTC)ddave2425[reply]

Having said that, there should eventually be be a bit about the protests in the "self-imposed exile" section, not of novel-length but mentioning the cancelled ASEAN+3 summit, intention to return to Thailand, call for revolution, quelling of protests, revocation of passport. The red-shirt protests as such probably need a page to themselves. In my humble opinion, as they say.Sartoresartus (talk) 03:55, 18 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Involvement in Thailand's red shirt riot

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Excuse me! Why did anyone (whose past contributions only involve in the Thaksin's page) remove the paragraph about his involvement in the recent Bangkok riot? The protest is the most widely publicize (and searched for) issue at the moment. I don't care if you're naiive enough to belive that he simply want to 'give moral support' to the protesters, but what was said there was 100% facts, no opionion. Please bring it back immediately. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Donny TH (talk • contribs) 10:19, 18 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If you were to make the huge effort to scroll down to the bottom of this page, you might find your answer there. Sartoresartus (talk) 17:48, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, from your logic, perhaps there's too much details there, but being the event that recieve world-media attention, it certainly deserves a place in the introduction. I'll 'condense' the paragraph a little more. Donny TH (talk) 21:20, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Reformer or fugitive?

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Just because he was convicted of a crime in a Thai court does not mean he is guilty nor does this deserve more prominence than his role as a humanitarian. Democracy no longer exists in thailand. The world needs to know that the Thai courts are corupt, that the king approved the coup and that Thaksin supports one person, one vote democracy. I have not yet made any edits to the article, but I will revert biased edits.

1. News flash: Guilty is defined as being convicted by a court.
2. Humanitarian!? I've heard of lots of (good and bad) things he is, but humanitarian is definitely not one of them. Enlighten me.
3. Democracy don't exist when a minority group of people came out rioting, throwing motolovs, burning buses, shooting at people, when the rest of about 60 millions sit depressed at home watching their nation falling apart on TV and pray for the crisis to stop.
4. See my comment below about court. Just because it convicts someone you like doesn't mean it is corrupted.
5. Go out to any crowded place and shout that thing you say about the King. I doubt if you'll last longer than 5 minutes. --Donny TH (talk) 05:43, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

When possible, please use third party, independent sources such as the BBC, New York Times or Associated Press. Thai based publications such as TheNation or Bangkok Post may not be neutral. Politics and corruption plagues Thai media, courts and military.Ddave2425 (talk) 10:18, 30 April 2009 (UTC)ddave2425[reply]

But Dude, you sounds like you live in Thailand and know things inside out when you said politic plague media and courts (wow.. others.. possible in some case, but court!.. that's a high and quite impregnable institution. 5 years ago, it rules against favour of Thaksin when he and his friends control Everything in Thailand), and if you do, you must have known what you're talking about. The Nation may presents facts in an biased commentary, but not Bangkok Post, (at least to a much lower scale.) (But if you exclude these 2, there' won't be much local English-language news source left, and international press don't report small incidents, only big ones like in April) By the way, what is reported in Thai media and international media during the April roits is pretty consistant, don't you think? --Donny TH (talk) 05:24, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Donny, give serious thought to whether "small incidents" really belong in a biographical article that is already too long. There are numerous other places to document your own take on every single detail.Patiwat (talk) 23:51, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I removed comparisons of Thaksin to AIDS and Hitler. Although these were referenced, it does not seem appropriate or encyclepedic, especially without context. I mean, in what way is Thaksin similar to AIDS, which is not even a person? If anything, it illustrates the bias of the sources. Ddave2425 (talk) 01:46, 3 May 2009 (UTC)ddave2425[reply]

Nice find! and to be correct, the source (who are individuals) is just making metaphoric comments in their point of view, but to search for those sentences in their speech and put it in here, it illustrates the bias of that writer. (whose name starts with a 'P' who has been editing this article a thousand times.) It's reverse psychology. Mentioning attacking statements that sounds silly to make the accused looks better. See the details and another example here: Finland Plot talk page. --Donny TH (talk) 04:37, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well, Prawase is a physician and knows a few things about AIDS... :) When one of Thailand's most respected public intellectuals criticizes you that harshly, I'd think that should legitimately be included in the article? Same thing for the other examples: when one of Thailand's most respected monks calls you a demon, a German educated lawyer compares you to Hitler, and a newspaper that did notable reporting on the Killing Fields compares you to Pol Pot, I think it is notable. More notable than, say, some psycho lady going onto Youtube using profanities and calling for Thaksin's murder (Donny, you know what I'm talking about, right?). Seriously, remove all the comparisons if you like, EXCEPT for Prem's. He's the Privy Council President (according to some, above politics), and any criticisms he makes of an elected politician are definitely noteworthy. Patiwat (talk) 23:45, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Patiwat, If Prawase knows something about AIDS, put it on the AIDS article page. I will remove those kinds of statements and we can bring in an admin if you wish. As for local media coverage, if the international media does not cover it, perhaps it does not belong on the Eghlish language wiki. I do not trust The Nation or Bangkok Post. Ddave2425 (talk) 21:27, 9 May 2009 (UTC)ddave2425[reply]

  • I think that list of comparisons from, as Patiwat says, notable people nicely illustrated our claim that T. is a 'controversial figure', which is all it was meant to illustrate. We ain't saying he's Hitler, we're saying his detractors compared him to.. (so that, dear reader, should give you an idea how much some people despise him). It is possible to edit all colour out of these articles and make them very dull. Read this fan of our collective efforts.
  • There'd be slim pickings if we had to rely on the international media, which (I'm sorry to have to say) largely rewrite the local media for want of anyone who speaks the language or has the faintest idea what's going on. Me, I don't trust the New York Times, and with very good reason. We'll just have to use a bit of discretion and try not to be children (says he, shaking his rattle). Sartoresartus (talk) 11:56, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • :: My 2 cents worth: I came here because I wanted to check out if Thaksin's corruption or alleged corruption has been so severe that it warrants years of campaigning against his group which has quite a following. The price for fighting Thaksin & Co has been upped significantly recently so I wondered if anybody or who was/is behind that.

Which policies might he have implemented to attract such hostilities that bring the country towards civil war and make that look acceptable? I was quite staggered by the creativeness and uniqueness of his policies. He certainly did not follow the rule books by those who pull the strings, and that does not endear you/him with the invisible layer of grey eminences. One example is the early re-payment of an IMF loan. They like countries to have these loans because that allows them influence. His policies were neither really left nor really right which is an irritant to those who pull the strings.

I also wanted to see on which scale Thaksin's corruption that we always hear about was. In comparison to German corruption before and under then Chancellor Helmut Kohl (our land in Berlin was affected, my own experience) it is not on a very high scale, but of course it is still 'verboten' - he and the wife should have known. His sister also made a severe mistake with that amnesty suggestion - it stirred up far too much and showed bad judgement.

In summary, yes, I believe now that there are forces which whip up anti-Thaksin groups - but who they are is not obvious to me. He is not a reformer or fugitive, he is a fugitive reformer, but the reforms were not the 'correct' ones. Ally Hauptmann-Gurski 121.209.53.9 (talk) 05:39, 30 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Why "junta-appointed" is a significant term

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"Junta-appointed" is a significant term that needs to be retained. Prior to the 2006 coup, numerous state agencies were established by the 1997 Constitution, e.g., the Constitutional Court, the Counter Corruption Committee. The 2006 coup abrogated the 1997 Constitution and effectively eliminated those state agencies. New agencies were established by the military government with somewhat similar names, e.g., Constitutional Tribunal, but had a completely different makeup as well as a legal context different from the 1997-2006 versions of the same agencies. For example, there were specific rules about what the 1997-2006 Constitutional Court could rule on and how it could rule - those rules did not apply for the junta-appointed Constitutional Tribunal. To be banned by the junta-appointed Constitutional Tribunal or have your assets frozen by the junta-appointed Asset Examination Committee was very different from having the same done by the 1997-2006 agencies.Patiwat (talk) 23:13, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Who caused the April unrest?

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This is a loaded question, and can only be addressed by strictly adhering to Wikipedia NPOV policies. The reds have said that the blues provoked them with violence and that yellows set the precedent. The yellows will have said that the reds caused it. The short fact of the matter is that there were violent clashes between the UDD and government supporters. Can't we just leave it at that in the intro? The "he says this and she said that" detail can go in the article. Patiwat (talk) 23:27, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Asia Times

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Does Sondhi still own the A.times online? I think that organ is so discredited that there's no point using it as reference for owt. Sartoresartus (talk) 09:31, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Career chronology out of sequence in favor of specious speculation

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The section entitled, "Deputy Prime Minister under Chavalit" says that the July ecomomic collapse came after Thaksin took office in August and suggests he was to blame. Well, sorry to burst your bubble, but August comes after July. Duh. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.28.16.33 (talk) 05:16, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I believe you're reading the text wrong. It means Thaskin took office in August soon after the economic collapse in July. I've removed the word "soon" to make things clearer. --NeilN talk ♦ contribs 12:43, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Verdict?

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I think the one who wrote the verdict mistook some part with Thaksin's defence against the charge. You can see it from the reference he/she put in A summary of Dr Thaksin Shinawatra’s defence in the Supreme Court in the case to confiscate his assets, especially in the last 3 items. Please verify. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.24.117.101 (talk) 16:56, 27 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Color pink

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He was born on a Tuesday and his Thai solar calendar auspicious color not red but pink.

Wanted by Interpol?

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Thaksin doesn't seem to be listed as a fugitive on the Interpol list.Interpol Thai nationals —Preceding unsigned comment added by Surfing bird (talk • contribs) 13:31, 14 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Death rumours

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Someone has already added his date of death to the article (now reverted), but Thaksin has apparently personally denied he's dead - [1] -- Boing! said Zebedee 21:28, 26 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thaksin is not dead. 122.0.2.2 (talk) 09:36, 23 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

which probably comes as a great disappointment to many Thais. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.122.96.212 (talk) 08:10, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Bullshit

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I don't have the time to get involved in an edit war, but a quick scan reveals that some contributers here are fulminating nonsense. For example Just because he was convicted of a crime in a Thai court does not mean he is guilty nor does this deserve more prominence than his role as a humanitarian. ... Thaksin supports one person, one vote democracy.

Totally wrong! Thaksin is a convicted criminal, no sensible person would call him humanitarian except as sarcasm.

As to Thaksin's view of democracy, consider this: one level where democracy here doesn't work too badly is at the local level: at least voters are personally acquainted with the candidates. Yet when P.M., Thaksin proposed that he appoint village headmen and subdistrict kamnans because, in his words, democracy doesn't work at the local level.

Foreign media has conveyed many misconceptions about Thai politics. Let's not compound that here at Wikipedia.Jamesdowallen (talk) 08:46, 27 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I agree that personal analysis and judgment from either side should not be there (and I also agree that the complexities of Thai politics have been greatly over-simplified and often misrepresented by foreign media), but I don't see what we can do other than revert POV additions whenever we see them. I've had this page watched for some time, and I really don't see a high level of additions of such material - and the whole thing generally seems reasonably balanced to me -- Boing! said Zebedee 09:10, 27 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Reasonably balanced? That's debatable. But out of date? That's incontrovertible. This article seems to end with February 2010. I haven't examined the edit history, but if edits are responsible for the February cutoff, it's regrettable. Wbkelley (talk) 15:50, 1 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(Yayaying (talk) 05:26, 21 February 2011 (UTC)) Section about Royal Decoration should be removed.[reply]

Politician?

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Editor IheartThailand has several times removed the word "politician" from the lead, claiming that Thaksin is no longer a politician. I disagree, as his role in politics is precisely what he is best known for. Even if he doesn't hold an official government or opposition role, that is only because he was driven out of it by a military coup and a prosecution that has bitterly divided the country. Thaksin is still the de facto of leader of the Thai opposition, and addresses large political rallies by way of satellite communication - and I doubt there is a single person in Thailand who thinks his political activity is in the past. It is important for Wikipedia to stay neutral, and adopt neither a pro nor anti-Thaksin stance, and neither a pro nor anti-monarchy stance regarding Thai politics. So, I bring it here to see what the consensus says - and I note that User:Frank appears to agree with me, and has also reverted IheartThailand's removal of the word "politician". Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 21:35, 31 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resignation or not

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Quote here http://www.asiantribune.com/news/2006/04/06/thaksin-resigns clearly states that Thaksin resigned as PM on 6/4/06. Therefore he cannot been ousted as PM by the Coup, but only as party leader. Unless, of course, he had un-resigned. The Coup didn't take place until September of that year. Comments invited.Sushisurprise (talk) 13:44, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Unsourced allegations

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The Criticism section contains a number of unsourced allegations, which I have tagged as needing citations. Whether or not they are true, WP:BLP policy requires that we do not host unsourced negative allegations against living persons. So unless these are sourced fairly soon, they will need to be removed -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 17:00, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Moved from article

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Oh this article gets almost amusing: his war on drugs was all about getting his dealers to offer suckers looking for 1g to go for 20g at a super cut-rate price; they would be arrested within seconds of their purchase, but possession of 20g qualifies you as a dealer and it enabled Thaksin to present glowing statistics about the number of dealers sentenced to 1g

And speaking of Thaksin without speaking of Temasek is speaking of the Pope without mentioning Catholicism.

--Arthur Borges 14:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Residence

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Where does he live now? YOMAL SIDOROFF-BIARMSKII (talk) 19:38, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Unsupported content

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The followng is supported by a dead link. Remove it?

"In a November 2009 interview, Thaksin told The Times that he was living in Dubai, still had access to about $100 million of his money outside of Thailand, and was investing in gold mines, diamond polishing and lottery licenses in various countries."

Ping: User:Farang Rak Tham

Cheers. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 19:14, 2 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sources that are no longer online are allowed on Wikipedia, unsourced content not. I replaced the dead link though.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 20:07, 2 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. I couldn't find a replacement. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 20:10, 2 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

B-class article

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That this is rated as a B-class article demonstrates how worthless classification of articles is. Seligne (talk) 12:53, 31 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The rating was given before C-class existed. Feel free to change it. --Paul_012 (talk) 11:26, 1 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'd rather try to make it B-class. Seligne (talk) 13:00, 1 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Unsourced

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I removed the following from the War on Drugs section:

  • Thaksin initiated several highly controversial policies to counter a perceived boom in the Thai drug market, particularly in methamphetamine. Earlier policies like border blocking (most methamphetamine is produced in Myanmar), education, sports, and promoting peer pressure had proved ineffective. In a 4 December 2002 speech on the eve of his birthday, King Bhumibol noted the rise in drug use and called for a "War on Drugs." Privy Councillor Phichit Kunlawanit called on the government to use its majority in parliament to establish a special court to deal with drug dealers, stating that "if we execute 60,000 the land will rise and our descendants will escape bad karma".[1]
  • The government went out of its way to publicise the campaign, through daily announcements of arrest, seizure, and death statistics. According to the Narcotics Control Board, the policy was effective in reducing drug consumption, especially in schools, by increasing the market price.
  • As of the August 2011 parliamentary elections, Abhisit's investigation failed to find or publicise any conclusive evidence linking Thaksin or members of his Government to any extrajudicial killings. zzz (talk) 14:44, 24 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Michael K. Connors, Ambivalent About Rights: "Accidental" Killing Machines, Democracy and Coups D’etat., Draft paper presented to Human Rights in Asia Workshop, University of Melbourne, 1–2 October 2009.

Who is Kasit?

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Who is Kasit? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.218.85.118 (talk) 03:37, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:08, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong jail

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Thaksin is jailed at Bangkok Remand Prison, not Klong Prem Central Prison. Just wanted to point it out. Sources: 1, 2, 3 DylanDoesWiki (talk) 14:38, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Done. While the facilities are technically separate, they're part of the same complex, so sources sometimes refer to them interchangeably (if inaccurately). I've redirected the title for now, though it will need some sorting out. --Paul_012 (talk) 15:11, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thailand's ex-PM Thaksin to serve 8 years in jail - court statement

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/thailands-ex-pm-thaksin-serve-8-years-jail-court-statement-2023-08-22/49.228.35.238 (talk) 20:18, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Merge proposal

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Hi all, it seems a bit odd to me that Thaksin Shinawatra's entry into politics is a separate article from this one. This article is certainly on the long side, so I can see the argument for a WP:SIZESPLIT, but I don't think the "entry into politics" section of his article is extensive enough to be a useful split target. To that end, I think it would be worth merging the "entry into politics" article back into here. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 15:51, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe this should be a discussion about how best to structure coverage on Thakain's political career aside from his premiership, which already has its own article. --Paul_012 (talk) 05:49, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I just took a somewhat deeper dive into the article histories. As things stand now, Thaksin Shinawatra's entry into politics is almost identical to the "Entry into politics" section of this very article, with much of the text repeated nearly or exactly verbatim between the two locations. Looking at the page history of the two articles, it appears that a user created the "entry into politics" page in 2007 by cutting and pasting the relevant section of Thaksin's main article; another user subsequently reverted the removal of that content from the main article, leading to identical text being duplicated across two articles, and in the ensuing sixteen years, both versions of the text have diverged from each other in only minor ways.
While I can certainly see a case in general for the existence of a standalone article on Thaksin's early political career, the tangled and redundant nature of this particular situation leads me to believe that a merge is the best solution here. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 18:18, 4 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for looking into it. In that case that page can probably be redirected here until someone wants to attempt a proper reorganisation (in which case, I'm thiking a Political career of Thaksin Shinawatra would be more natural.) --Paul_012 (talk) 06:59, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for carrying out the redirect! I agree with your thinking that Political career of Thaksin Shinawatra would be the ideal title for a new split-out article, if/when someone tries their hand at it. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 15:08, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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