Talk:Lev Tahor

BLP Violations

This is a one sided article with negative information of a minority group of people which is subject to BLP policy. The article should have a neutral point of view with basic information about the subject and then a controversial section. The page also seems much like an attack page WP:ATTACK. Caseeart (talk) 04:42, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

I added a "controversy" section, and added the paragraphs I thought could be perceived as "negative" in it... I don't see how this appears as an attack page though, since it only reflects information taken elsewhere, and because the sources are listed. Also, I don't understand why it says that this is a "one sided article with negative information"...Alleanza (talk) 18:00, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

You should take a look at the article how it appeared before the recent edits. There was almost no information about the group. There were only attacks. Currently that basic information about the group was added. However the article needs a lot of cleanup and it still appears non nuetral.

Your recent edits are factual and neutral information (unlike previous edits). This is a good start to building a fair article. (However it should go through some more grammar editing, and fit into an encyclopedic style. I was unable to understand the sources since they were in French.)Caseeart (talk) 06:51, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

There were a few poorly sourced additions by a recent user. However since it is time consuming, I don't feel the need to immediately remove since it is not libelous and most of it is probably found in other reputable sources.Caseeart (talk) 02:17, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

Information lost

Before this page was turned into a screed against this Lev Tahor group in Canada, it was largely a place-holder disambig page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Lev_Tahor&direction=next&oldid=587169254

The coöption of the article has come at the expense of all mention of the far more notable musical group Lev Tahor, and no mention is made of the origin of the name. I know, sofixit. Sometime, perhaps, I will have time. 75.128.215.87 (talk) 04:13, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Maybe don't name a band after a terrorist group? 66.68.32.8 (talk) 17:47, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

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History section ambiguity

What is this sentence supposed to mean?

Soon afterwards he moved to Canada, which allowed him political asylum under Canada's Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, that he would be persecuted by Israeli authorities for his anti-Zionist teachings.

Puzzledvegetable (talk) 02:19, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Don't know where you found that, the actual sentence reads: Soon afterwards Helbrans moved to Canada, where he received political asylum under Canada's Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, to which he claimed he was entitled due to perceived persecution by Israeli authorities for his anti-Zionist teachings. StonyBrook (talk) 03:12, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

The sentence has since been fixed by another user. Puzzledvegetable (talk) 03:15, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

Back in Guatemala?

An article in the 28 March 2019 New York Post refers to the group as "Guatemala-based" and states that the late Shlomo Helbrans "hopscotched the group around the world — to Brooklyn, Israel, Canada, Mexico and now Guatemala" (emphasis added). It also says that in a conversation about kidnapping Yante and Chaim Teller, the sect's (unnamed) "boss" spoke by phone from Guatemala. Given the Post’s lack of reputation as a RS (and the not very professional tone of the article), I'm a bit skeptical. Peter Chastain ^[¡hablá!] 03:01, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

Lol, this aged well. 2A0A:EF40:1046:CE01:9DC3:13EB:6C4F:4EA8 (talk) 14:12, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Authorities just did a raid in Guatemala. Harizotoh9 (talk) 03:11, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Finances

There's no mention of the substantial finances required for such a group. Rustygecko (talk) 15:44, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Sources and links for updates

Per the article page, a request for updates was made. I found two updates from good news sources, but have no free time to add them to the article. I hope someone will. Here they are:

"Lev Tahor Jewish sect members held in Mexico escape"

BBC News, 30 September 2022

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-63086207

"At 16, he escaped a fringe Jewish sect accused of child abuse"

Los Amgeles Times, 31 January 2023

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2023-01-31/la-fg-mexico-lev-tahor-rescue

cat yronwode, not logged in, 75.101.104.17 (talk) 02:01, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Countries

The infobox code is an idiotic Procrustean bed, inflexible and unfit for purpose in this case.

As it seems from existing refs, they tried to settle in Iran, touching on Iraq only for transit. The Turkey 2017 episode looks transitory, and the "Balkans Odyssee" with extensions north of the Danube certainly was transitory from what I can glance: Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, Romania, Moldova, all in late 2021 – early 2022. The template doesn't allow for a single-line, concentrated statement of "Balkans, Romania and Moldova - late 2021 to early 2022", with or w/o those unnecessary flags. If you know how to fix that, pls do, but don't create single-country lines for what was only a very short transit, nothing like their stay in ISR, US, CAN, GUA.

There is NO REF for a longer stay in Romania and Moldova, and actually NO REF WHATSOEVER for them touching on or staying in Moldova, so cn.

They reappear now in Guatemala! So we have a gap. Arminden (talk) 10:23, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Correction: the early 2022 news article from Republika Srpska already mentions them having been DEPORTED from ROM and MOLD, adding Albania to that list. Either they tried again in ROM and MOLD later on, or that only lay in the past by that time. Arminden (talk) 11:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Financing?

How TF can they afford globetrotting at will on all continents, running a "farm" (really, like growing food, them?!), crossing borders on short notice while on the run etc.? Who are the money donors? Or did Helbrans inherit some huge fortune? The sect is far too small to self-finance while being on the run for long periods, and residing in isolated, often poor regions while focusing on rituals and raising crazy numbers of children.

Like with all outlaw groups, "follow the money" is a basic principle and a must, and the article does not. Arminden (talk) 11:24, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

One possibly useful 2014 source here, but I don't quite get it: is the audio it? Because it only contains a very brief line around minute 23 (rumour about one emissary trying to collect donations in Brooklyn), which does not justify by any means the title, "From the archives: Where does Lev Tahor get its money?". Or is there a written article there below one needs to subscribe for? Arminden (talk) 11:26, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

There you go. "Lev Tahor group amassed $6 million in assets when it operated as charity", Toronto Star 2013. A good start. Arminden (talk) 11:57, 23 December 2024 (UTC)