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== Discussion ==
I manually moved the stuff over from '''aviophobia''' to here because '''fear of flying''' already had a history. I pointed out that ''aviophobia'' is 1)not plain English, 2)two syllables longer than ''fear of flying'', 3)a terribly constructed, illegitimate Greek-Latin hybrid, 4)a word that (ignoring the poor construction) means "Fear of Birds". Aviophobia simply isn't a legitimate word--it's not even in the OED.[[User:Mauvila|Mauvila]] 08:52, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I changed the wording "an irrational" to "a " as stating that somethins is irrational implies a point of view.

The orignal wording was "Fear of flying is an irrational fear of air travel." Changed the sentence to read "Fear of flying is a fear of air travel." Who is to say that it's an irrational fear?
Air travel was not as safe as it is today for most of the people who might have traveled on the provided list. [[User:Wjbean|Wjbean]] 23:39, 2005 Apr 25 (UTC)

Well, I suppose you're right. But we then should probably replace 'air travel' with the more common term 'flying'. And we would be left with 'Fear of flying is a fear of flying.' A beautifully reflexive statement. I'm pretty sure the reason it said 'irrational' was that the article was originally under some bizarrely constructed 'phobia' word. And phobias generally are defined as irrational. But those phobias tend to be stuff like 'fear of the letter 13', 'fear of water', and things that could legitimately be classified as irrational. But I see nothing worthy of the DSM-IV in flying. Imagine something being defined as the "irrational fear of skydiving". [[User:68.63.58.122|68.63.58.122]] 08:24, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

== Request for Help: Commercial external links ==

Hi. This article page seems to be attract commercial links somewhat. I'm having a hard time telling if the remaining two links are of real value to people with a fear of flying. Can somebody help?
--[[User:Netizen|Netizen]] 10:44, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
::Anybody? I'm not knowledgable about this topic. --[[User:Netizen|Netizen]] 08:09, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

== Inconsequential Statistics ==

I think the following should be removed from the first paragraph:

"this despite that driving in an automobile is statistically many times more dangerous."

The person who wrote this failed to note that there are many more automobiles on the road than there are planes in the sky, which may certainly bump up those "statistics".

[[User:Cparker|Cparker]] 05:05, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

::I agree. I'm getting awfully tired of seeing this statistic without a source to back it up. There are many ways in which you could compare the two statistics. My opinion is that you'd have to compare 'fatal car crashes due to the actions of another driver' since not much else really works out well (i.e., direct fatalities caused by negligent drivers, EXCLUDING the driver that caused the accident). Any moron can get a driver's license in the U.S., whereas flying a commercial airliner takes many years of training and many, many, many flight hours.

::Although commercial flight is very safe by any standard, I think it's entirely possible that this statistic is yet another silly statistic without real footing or relevance.<br> <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:67.50.83.206|67.50.83.206]] ([[User talk:67.50.83.206|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/67.50.83.206|contribs]]) 10:05, 5 April 2006</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <small>''(See [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Fear_of_flying&curid=1426404&diff=47070274&oldid=41124355 diff])''</small>

:::I have added a reference to a USDOT page that has statistics for motor vehicle and air travel fatalities, among other things. They measure it in deaths per miles traveled, which is what you want if you're comparing driving vs. flying for the same trip. [[User:Slathering|Nate]] 17:04, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

::::What about General Aviation as opposed to Commercial Aviation? Does anybody have relevant statistics? Piotr

:::Agree. I think this subject deserves its own discussion section within the article. (Or maybe a new article on the safety of flying, to which a link could be added here.) There's no one "right" way to look at "the statistic." Perhaps several (possibly conflicting) references should be included with a discussion of the caveats of each... let the reader draw a conclusion about whether flying really is "safer" based on whatever metric they feel comfortable with (deaths over the whole population? deaths per aircraft mile? deaths per passenger mile?). [[User:David Norris|David Norris]] 22:21, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

==List of people==
I am going to clean this list from persons whose artciles do not mention [[fear of flying]] or the list entry itself does not give a reference, according to [[wikipedia:Verifiability]] rule. Such a bare list is an invitation to hoahers. `'[[user:mikkalai|mikka]] [[user talk:mikkalai|(t)]] 23:41, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBxPJe1nk-0

Clint Boon was not the lead singer from PWEI. He was the keyboard player with Inspiral Carpets. Clint Mansell sang with PWEI.

==Last section==
The last section of this article is so grammatically incorrect that I don't know what the author was trying to say in the first place. If anyone can decypher the last paragraph, I encourage you to do so.

== Revision by specialist, please! ==

A topic of major concern for modern life, and no one can write a better article than this? Will some academic or specialist in the field please revise or totaly re-write this article, so as to give us an acurate idea of what the current scientific understanding of "fear of flying" is, including all the different theories, explanations etc...? Please, the world wants to learn! <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/{{{IP|{{{User|219.193.90.201}}}}}}|{{{IP|{{{User|219.193.90.201}}}}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{IP|{{{User|219.193.90.201}}}}}}|talk]]) {{{Time|02:48:46, August 19, 2007 (UTC)}}}</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


Yes, I can. I not only suffer from The Fear of Flying, but have numerous resources. I agree, that this article is terrible. At one time it was in good shape, but has been edited to the point it is difficult to read or understand. Don't expect any big revisions soon, as I want to properly research each section prior to making ANY changes. I will of course cite my resources, and THEY WILL BE RELIABLE. Thanks --[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 02:20, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

==Fly at Ease==
I've been trying to submit a link to an informative page, flyatease that explains the noises from takeoff to landing, as well as a 4-5 page article thats helpful for those with a fear of flying. Keeps getting removed, i don't think its a commercial site?<small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/67.52.4.154|67.52.4.154]] ([[User talk:67.52.4.154|talk]]) 17:33, 18 February 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:If the information is so valuable, why dont you include it in the article? This really isn't a how-to manual, but an encyclopedia.[[User:Montco|Montco]] ([[User talk:Montco|talk]]) 21:01, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

==Self-medicating OK...?==
Wow 4 years of working at a substance abuse clinic I would say thats crazy "I'm often told of the "Anti-Anxiety" Effects of Heroin and Ketamine to name a few and I can tell you it starts w/ fear of flying then fear of a job interview then your seeing me after ODing telling me you are not an addict and this is a one time thing.Lets Delete it would anyone agree I am new and don't like editing willy nilly except vandalizing wikipedia JK.By the way heroin does work much better then anything thats from the patient . OK--[[User:N8Riley|N8Riley]] ([[User talk:N8Riley|talk]]) 17:35, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

==Is this really true?==
Is this really true, because I think this could really only happen to young children and mentally messed up drama-kings and drama-queens.
*"For example, the experience of flying to a meeting only to be told that one has been fired might be traumatic enough to subsequently create an association between any air travel and bad or unpleasant events."
Please respond. [[User:Rob657|Rob657]] ([[User talk:Rob657|talk]]) 05:39, 1 March 2009 (UTC)Rob657


Yes it is. And no, people that suffer from the Fear of Flying are not "drama" anything. It is a REAL fear no matter how irrational. Interesting enough children rarely suffer from The Fear of Flying. I personally suggest you read about the phobia prior to labeling people. --[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 18:37, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

== Stanley Kubrick ==

I've removed his name from the list of people afraid to fly. Kubrick was a licensed pilot who said he refused to fly because of the lax standards of the airline industry. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/71.194.62.168|71.194.62.168]] ([[User talk:71.194.62.168|talk]]) 20:47, 11 March 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== erroneous conclusion when talking about the Stanford study ==

I think the paragraph about the Stanford study is downright wrong, I read it. People treated with benzos experienced LESS anxiety than placebo and only the group that was taken off the benzos to fly on the second flight with placebo only had increased anxiety. Thus benzos are effective, however this makes it sound like they aren't. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Amalgamator|Amalgamator]] ([[User talk:Amalgamator|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Amalgamator|contribs]]) 02:23, 26 January 2011 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

I agree. Anyone else care to comment? --[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 05:34, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

== Engine failure ==

I am confused by this passage:

''Misunderstandings of the principles of aviation can fuel an unjustified fear of flying. For example, many people incorrectly believe that the engines of a jet airliner support it in the air, and from this false premise they also incorrectly reason that a failure of the engines will cause the aircraft to plummet to earth. In reality, all aircraft glide naturally, and the engines serve only to maintain altitude during the flight.''

Aside from the fact that it appears to be unsourced original research, it's also a teensy bit casuistic. It's not as if engine failure doesn't cause plane crashes! Maintenance of altitude is, it must be said, one of the most important functions of an aircraft. Would anyone care to defend this passage before I delete it? [[User:TremorMilo|TremorMilo]] ([[User talk:TremorMilo|talk]]) 20:49, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Not sure about deletion, perhaps revision. I "think" what the author was attempting to explain is a subject's lack of knowledge about the mechanics of flight causes or attributes to their Fear of Flying. It is true that loss of all engines does not instantly cause a crash. The Gimli Glider,[[Gimli_Glider]] an Air Canada 767, with total engine failure, glided for over 150 miles to a rough, but sucessful landing. I am very knowledgable about the Fear of Flying, and it is VERY true that individuals misconcieved notions about the mechanics of flight causes or attributes to their fear.--[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 17:50, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

== Randy Rhoads ==

Can we have a reference for Randy having a fear of flying? It may well be true, but it struck me this may have been someone's (bad) idea of a joke [[Special:Contributions/86.142.110.161|86.142.110.161]] ([[User talk:86.142.110.161|talk]]) 20:27, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

If no one can cite a reliable source it should be removed. Objections?--[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 18:06, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

== Request for SOAR Commercial links "References" be removed ==

#REDIRECT [[5.^ "Comparative Effectiveness Of Flight Anxiety Treatments And Programs". http://fearofflying.com/about/compare-effectiveness-flight-anxiety-treatments-programs.shtml.]]

#REDIRECT [[6.^ "History of Fear of Flying Programs". http://www.fearofflying.com/about/history.shtml. |6.^ "History of Fear of Flying Programs". http://www.fearofflying.com/about/history.shtml. ]]

SOAR is an expensive program [http://www.fearofflying.com/store/] that initially offers "some" free help through it forums. As this is a commerical (for profit) program, I request that these links be removed.--[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 17:38, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

== Proposal to change Article Name==

'''Fear of Flying''' is the "common name" however it is also the name that most readers will attempt to look the article up by. My suggestion. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mt6617|contribs]]) 17:52, 26 January 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

In support of this proposal i add that i have yet to see a scientific paper/article which uses the term Pteromerhanophobia. "phobic fears of flying" is what is used most of the time in scientific writing. also see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions [[Special:Contributions/80.108.113.34|80.108.113.34]] ([[User talk:80.108.113.34|talk]]) 11:17, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

==Symptoms==

The below quoted text is a good intro to Symptoms, however needs to be expanded. Here are some suggestions:[http://www.guidetopsychology.com/fearfly.htm] [http://phobias.about.com/od/phobiaslist/a/aerophobiaprof.htm] A Clear list [http://www.fearofstuff.com/travel/air-travel/what-are-some-fear-of-flying-symptoms/]

''A fear of flying is a level of anxiety so great that it prevents a person from travelling by air, or causes great distress to a person when he or she is compelled to travel by air. The most extreme manifestations can include panic attacks or vomiting at the mere sight or mention of an aircraft or air travel.''--[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 18:05, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

This is an article about an academic subject. The three sources notes above are not sufficiently reliable for use in this article for the reasons noted below. In general, these subjects should rely primarily on peer reviewed journals. [[User:Rklawton|Rklawton]] ([[User talk:Rklawton|talk]]) 01:15, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
* "Guide to Psychology" - self published.
* "about.com" - basically a wiki.
* "fearofstuff" - isn't an academic site - it's a site set up to cell anti-phobia CDs.

==Treatment==

This section needs to be re-written. First, terms need to be either simplified, or meaning explained. Many folks with The Fear of Flying become confused and frustrated if too much information is thrown at them. They are struggling with a fear they know is irrational, and that alone frustrates them. For this reason, terms need to be explained (spoon feeding) This is not saying that individuals that suffer from The Fear of Flying are dumb or slow, in fact just the opposite. Many are very intelligent, and creative.

Secondly, there are many, many, many forms of Treatment. The Fear of Flying is not always the same in every person. Different life events, or lack of experience with flight can bring on The Fear of Flying. Therefore some treatments work for some, but not for others. As a result there are many treatments to attack the phobia. These treatments need to be discussed as well.

Examples are: [http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/24/health/psychology/24fear.html?pagewanted=all] [http://helpguide.org/mental/phobia_symptoms_types_treatment.htm] [http://voices.yahoo.com/fear-flying-three-treatment-options-common-12557.html] [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17310883] Group Therapy [http://www.nytimes.com/1999/06/23/nyregion/group-therapy-eases-takeoffs-learning-to-conquer-the-fun-limiting-fear-of-flight.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm] Support Forums [http://www.fearofflyingtips.com/fear-of-flying-forum.html] [http://www.takingflight.us/forums/index.php]
--[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 18:26, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

:This is an encyclopedia - and not a "how to" guide (for cures or anything else for that matter. It's simply wrong to assume our readership consists solely of people with this phobia. Students, airline professionals, and mental health specialists along with the plain curious may be reading this article. Hence it is not appropriate to "spoon feed" any particular group. [[User:Rklawton|Rklawton]] ([[User talk:Rklawton|talk]]) 01:18, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

:Of the sources listed in this section, I highly recommend using nih.gov. That would be considered a reliable source and well worth including here. Great job! [[User:Rklawton|Rklawton]] ([[User talk:Rklawton|talk]]) 01:19, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

==Links==
This area needs to be expanded. I have added some links that are non-commercial, or not for profit. I am against ANY internet site that is "for profit" as I have witnessed folks clear their bank account grabbing at straws to receive help. If someone needs to seek professional help, their personal MD should refer them. Stacy Chance does charge for a book and a DVD, however the majority of his site is free. There is a wealth of free information out on the internet to help with The Fear of Flying. And they are reliable. By the same token, there are many "snakes in the grass" that act like telvision evangilist waiting to make a profit on those that suffer from this phobia. I do not feel we need to add to their "cause". --[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 18:33, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
:This section should be labeled "External links". However, I've removed the section because none of the links were worthwhile. One was to a self-published website, one to a website that had very little information and has obviously not been maintained in awhile, and the last pointed to a non-scientific poll. See [[WP:EL]] for useful information about external links. [[User:Rklawton|Rklawton]] ([[User talk:Rklawton|talk]]) 01:24, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

==NOTICE==

This article is in very bad condition. I have suggested changes here on the "talk page" yet no-one is responding. That is fine as it is a not a "huge" subject. However, I do not want to go through the effort, time, and energy to make proper edits if they are going to be deleted. If you have something to add, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do it now on the talk page. Please do not waste my time by coming in later and with the stroke of a key destroying my work. Thank You. --[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 00:47, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
:Welcome to Wikipedia. You're going to need thick skin if you want to edit here. I've commented on your suggestions above, but please note that mine is not the final word. I'm just one of many experienced editors here. If you're looking to help this article, please explore the nih.gov link you posted above. It's an excellent source, and information you pull from it (and cite) would be hard to impeach. Good work! [[User:Rklawton|Rklawton]] ([[User talk:Rklawton|talk]]) 01:27, 1 February 2012 (UTC)


==Original Research==

Articles and references to "original research" has been removed.--[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 01:57, 2 February 2012 (UTC)


==Article should be taken down entirely==

Until this article can be researched, edited, and published correctly, it should be taken completely down. It has numerous errors, some that I have noted. Wikipedia is an Encyclopedia wherein research, study, and definitions are looked for. This article is misleading and false overall.--[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 01:59, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

==EXTERNAL LINK==

I am adding the non-profit forum Takingflight.us. This site REFUSES to even accept donations. For those individuals coming to this article to research The Fear of Flying can find valuable information here.--[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 03:27, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
:The site fails Wikipedias policies and guidelines related to external links at [[WP:ELNO]] and [[WP:NOT#REPOSITORY]]. These content documents provide guidance on the communities consensus on what is appropriate external links, and the above link clearly fails that criteria. --- [[User:Barek|Barek]] <small>([[User talk:Barek|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Barek|contribs]])</small> - 03:37, 4 February 2012 (UTC)


Thank you. Can you find some links or references that DO meet the guidelines. This is a frequently researched subject. And this article is incomplete, false, and misleading. I, and others have cited the reasons why. If we are not going to present an accurate article, then I recommend that the entire article be taken down until it can be discussed here. --[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 03:45, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

:I've read the various comments you've left on this talk page. They all basically same the same thing - the article is terrible, and you have first-hand experiences. Neither of these observations are particularly helpful. You have provided some links, too, but I've explained why they aren't appropriate for an encyclopedia article. And that's about it. I've you've got some constructive recommendations and useful sources, please let us know. [[User:Rklawton|Rklawton]] ([[User talk:Rklawton|talk]]) 03:58, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your observations. As I wrote on my talk page, I will not make any changes to the article whatsoever. I have left several comments here inviting others to expand on. The article will either be improved by others, or will stand in it's current condition. My question... is this how Wikipedia wants their articles to look? You have written that this is an "encyclopedia article" can you cite another "Encyclopedia" that would allow this article to stand in it's present condition?--[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 04:21, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

==Notable people with the phobia==

What purpose does this have in an encyclopedia article? It provides no significant basis of researching this phobia. For example, just because John Madden suffers from The Fear of Flying, does not indicate a relation between Football Announcers and the phobia. Request is made that this section be removed.--[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 05:28, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
:That's a good point. So why not go over each name one at a time and see who has the actual phobia and who just doesn't care to fly? Jay Leno, for example, has nothing about flying in his article, so we can remove that one as unsourced. [[User:Rklawton|Rklawton]] ([[User talk:Rklawton|talk]]) 14:23, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

That is a good point as well, as if it can't be verified, it has no reason to be here at all. However, my point is... EVEN if they DO suffer from The Fear of Flying, it still makes no sense for the list to be here. It offers nothing in the way of research, it is more about the person than the phobia. It is "interesting" to see a list of notable people that suffer from the phobia, but is not something that belongs in a Encyclopedia article. That is why I have suggested that the entire section be removed.--[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 20:30, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
:That's your opinion, but it's pretty common to include a list of notable folks with a particular affliction. Sometimes we list them directly in articles such as this one. Sometimes we create a category instead. [[User:Rklawton|Rklawton]] ([[User talk:Rklawton|talk]]) 20:36, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Understood. I will research each one. I know that many listed are affected, but not all. I did remove Jay Leno.--[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 21:01, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

==Links and References==

I'm going to compile a list of links and references here. If someone could comment on each one, as whether they are acceptable prior to me incorporating them into the article it would be appreciated.--[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 21:27, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

We have already discussed this one, and it is my understanding it is acceptable [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17310883]

'''The additional:'''

[http://www.livescience.com/5486-fear-flying.html Live Science article]--[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 21:24, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

[http://www.allaboutcounseling.com/library/aviophobia-aviatophobia/ All About Counseling]--[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 21:37, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
[http://www.guidetopsychology.com/fearfly.htm This article has many references and citations, of the ones I have listed thus far, with the exception of NIH, I think this one would be most useful in reconstructing the article.] --[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 21:43, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
:I recommend starting [http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=Aviophobia+&btnG=Search&as_sdt=0%2C23&as_ylo=&as_vis=0 here] [[User:Rklawton|Rklawton]] ([[User talk:Rklawton|talk]]) 23:45, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Wow... this is some good information! Thanks Rklawton, I will start digging into it and post what I find here!--[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 00:28, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Well.... I dug into it, and unfortunately most of the links required registration, payment, etc. I have given much thought to this situation, and there appears to be a problem which I will discuss in a separate discussion topic. --[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 02:19, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

==Conflicts==

In 2002, while a business traveler I became nervous on a flight from Ontario, CA to San Jose, Ca. This was the start of my Fear of Flying. In the past 10 years I have dedicated myself to the knowledge, research, and understanding of this often "misunderstood" phobia.

Many have loss their jobs, relations, and spouses, due to this phobia. This phobia continues to be as mysterious to society as space aliens.

I have, over the years, monitored the Wikipedia article in regards to The Fear of Flying. At times it has been "satisfactory" and at other times it has been misleading and false.

The article in it's current condition is not only misleading, but destructive to those currently researching this phobia.

I came here in good faith [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Faith] to try an improve this article, only to be attacked by user "Barek"[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Barek]. Specifically "Barek" an unnamed individual has slandered the good name of takingflight.us, a properly identified, non profit organization, operating within the laws of the State of Florida. Taking Flight, not the album, not the pornographic movie, is a organization that has been in good standing for over 10 years helping those affected by The Fear of flying. "Barek" has identified "Taking Flight" as a "spam site". A hateful, disrespectful reference. And definitively qualifies as defamation.[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation]

Every time I have tried to improve this article I have been told why "I can't" it is not proper, wrong format, doesn't follow a particular rule. However the very rules that have been cited, do not seem to pertain to the current condition of the article. For example, the list of notable individuals that suffer from the Phobia has no valuable data. The response I receive was that "often" it is included. Why? Wikipedia has a strict set of rules, and that is appreciated. However those "rules" need to apply across the board. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mt6617|contribs]]) 02:19, 6 February 2012‎</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

==Slander and Libel==

"Barek" must remove the "tags" accusing www.takingflight.us of "spamming". Further a formal apologie is required to be posted by "Barek". The site www.takingflight.us is NOT a spamming site as recognized. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mt6617|contribs]]) 02:19, 6 February 2012‎</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
:I have never claimed that the url is a spamming site, I said that the site does not meet Wikipedia's content guidelines at either [[WP:EL]] or [[WP:RS]] and that the pattern of adding the site qualified your behavior to be that of [[WP:LINKSPAM|linkspaming]]. It may not have been your intent, but your actions did meet that threshold. --- [[User:Barek|Barek]] <small>([[User talk:Barek|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Barek|contribs]])</small> - 02:47, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

All I know, is that if you click on the link, Takingflight.us is listed as a spamming site on Wikipedia. It does not show by whom, but it corresponds with the date of your warning. Additionally, please note that I have respected your warning. The Article has no reference to Takingflight.us. Although others have added names of those affected by the phobia.--[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 02:57, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
:If you click on what link? Where? Please be more clear. --- [[User:Barek|Barek]] <small>([[User talk:Barek|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Barek|contribs]])</small> - 02:59, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Please see [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Spam/LinkSearch/takingflight.us&action=edit&redlink=1]

:No such page, Mt. —'''[[User:C.Fred|C.Fred]]''' ([[User_talk:C.Fred|talk]]) 03:10, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Interesting Fred, and now this one [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Spam/Local/takingflight.us] indicates automated. I will pull up my screen shots and place them here.--[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 03:19, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
: The automated bot says the URL is not blacklisted... I'm not sure why it added that notice but then there's much I don't know about the spam blacklist or the various bots that handle that kind of thing. [[User:Night Ranger|Night Ranger]] ([[User talk:Night Ranger|talk]]) 03:26, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

:Automated and stale. You added the link enough that a bot picked up the activity and logged it. No further action has been taken, though. —'''[[User:C.Fred|C.Fred]]''' ([[User_talk:C.Fred|talk]]) 03:26, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for the explanation Fred. Much appreciated. --[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 03:33, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

==Accurate Article==

If "Wikipedia" continue to refuse to publish an accurate article about this subject, then the entire article needs to be removed. It is understood that your contributors, editors, etc may not have enough knowledge about the subject to properly produce an article. What is not understood is why you continue to publish an article that, according to your own comments (see top of article) is flawed. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mt6617|contribs]]) 02:19, 6 February 2012‎</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

==Final Thoughts==

My goal here was to create a accurate article about this subject. I enlisted help from others more familiar with the "Wikipedia Process". I am sorry that I have had to waste my time and others "wading" through the red tape, when the final goal is to only produce an accurate article about this phobia.

Finally.... "Barek", take note that "spammers" do not take this much time and energy into a project.--[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 02:19, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
:As to how much energy spammers put into the project, there are spammers who have spent years attempting to add their URL to the project - and when the community finally had enough and blacklisted the sites, years more attempting to argue that it should be removed from the blacklist. Amount of effort is not a clear indicator in itself. --- [[User:Barek|Barek]] <small>([[User talk:Barek|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Barek|contribs]])</small> - 02:44, 6 February 2012 (UTC)


Fine, Call me <phone number redacted>. I am a "real" person and do not have time to spam anyone. Feel free to call me to see that I am not some megasite just spamming folks.--[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 03:03, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
:I have always assumed you were a real person - had I thought otherwise, I would have blocked you as being a group account is a violation of Wikipedia's username policy.
:You made a comment that spammers do not put in a lot of effort, and I posted a reply to the comment to correct that incorrect belief. --- [[User:Barek|Barek]] <small>([[User talk:Barek|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Barek|contribs]])</small> - 03:06, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Your comments insinuate that I am a spammer. I have provided you with my phone number. If you call it right now you will hear MY voice, not that of a spammer. Have you even looked at Takingflight.us? Does it even resemble a "spamming site" to you? I find your prejudice opinions disturbing. Prior to even "suggesting" or "labeling" someone or something, you should do more research.--[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 03:13, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
:So, you believe that spammers do not have voices? Also, as I stated above, I have never claimed the site to be a spamming site - I said it failed Wikipedia content guidelines listed at both [[WP:EL]] and [[WP:RS]], and that it was your behavior at the time that crossed the threshold of [[WP:LINKSPAM|linkspamming]]. You correctly pointed out that you have stopped that behavior, and I have not disputed that. --- [[User:Barek|Barek]] <small>([[User talk:Barek|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Barek|contribs]])</small> - 03:17, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
: Please calm down. Nobody is accusing you of spamming, they are only saying that you most likely were not aware of the external link guidelines. Becoming so upset and defensive of this one link is working against you, as almost all link spammers react to having their links removed with anger, accusations of bias and slander, etc. Please understand that these reactions and statements are hurting your position, not helping it. [[User:Night Ranger|Night Ranger]] ([[User talk:Night Ranger|talk]]) 03:20, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you Night Ranger. I understand what you are saying. And appreciate your comments. I suppose the subject is too close to me, and I need to enlist someone who is not so personally involved to improve the article. Taking Flight was so much help to me in battling the phobia, but I suppose that does not make it good research material. Thanks again, and my apologies. --[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 03:27, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

==Notable People==

I now note that the list of "Notable People" has been tripled. I guess that is your answer. --[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 02:37, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
: I have deleted all of the unreferenced names and one that was referenced to a non [[WP:RS]]. [[User:Night Ranger|Night Ranger]] ([[User talk:Night Ranger|talk]]) 03:00, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. --[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 03:14, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

:I was reading the article on Lorne "Gump" Worsley. It had a citation regarding his avoidance of airplane flights (which almost caused his early retirement from hockey), and a link to this article, so I added his name here. I wonder how many of the other deleted subjects have similar indirect references. [[User:WHPratt|WHPratt]] ([[User talk:WHPratt|talk]]) 13:41, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
::I think it's a BLP violation to label someone with a phobia using only an indirect reference, so I've removed it and would encourage any editor to refrain from using articles to speculate on other people's illnesses. [[User:Rklawton|Rklawton]] ([[User talk:Rklawton|talk]]) 14:10, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
:::By "indirect," I didn't mean "hearsay," but rather a direct citation in the subject's own article. If listing him here is somehow defamatory, then so is the other article. [[User:WHPratt|WHPratt]] ([[User talk:WHPratt|talk]]) 13:54, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
::::How about adding a link here and copying the reference to the reliable source? [[User:GoingBatty|GoingBatty]] ([[User talk:GoingBatty|talk]]) 00:25, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

==Backing Out==

This subject is too personal for me to be "subjective".... so... I am going to back off. I would appreciate any and all out there to improve the article within the guidelines of Wikipedia. Thank you for your time. --[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 03:30, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
: That's a shame because Wikipedia needs editors who are interested in topics to improve articles. There's really no reason for you to stop (unless you actually do want to), but I would suggest reading the guidelines first, and then obtaining your information from scholarly sources. Books, journal articles, papers written and published be experts in the field, etc. The most important thing to remember is that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and meant as a neutral, factual information source. However, it's also perpetually a "work in progress", so many articles are in mediocre to poor condition. This is simply because nobody interested in the topic has gotten around to fixing them. The first thing that brings someone here to improve an article is their interest in that topic. After all, someone is not going to improve an article on a rare fungus if their interest is in engineering. If you're interested in this topic then by all means, improve this article. It does need it. Just go slowly, get your information from quality sources, and remember these three core policies: [[WP:V]], [[WP:NPOV]] and [[WP:RS]]. You may also want to enlist some help over at the Psychology wikiproject (there's a link at the top of this talk page). [[User:Night Ranger|Night Ranger]] ([[User talk:Night Ranger|talk]]) 03:43, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

==Causes==

I disagree with this sentence:

''the result of hormone release during pregnancy and the result of difficulty with the regulation of emotion when not in control due to developmental issues''

Is there a reliable source?--[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 05:33, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

:The placement of reference #2 seems to indicate that the source would be that reference. However, that web page has no mention of "hormone" or "preganacy". When it was added to the article in it had a reference at examiner(dot)com (see [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Pteromerhanophobia&diff=prev&oldid=302648575 this edit] for the full URL), which can't be added back to the article because of the spam filter. If this reference is necessary, you can request that this page be added to the spam whitelist. [[User:GoingBatty|GoingBatty]] ([[User talk:GoingBatty|talk]]) 18:02, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, That reference was removed as it is a pay site and also offers "cures". Therefore can the statement be removed if there is no reliable reference?--[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 00:26, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
:No objection. [[User:GoingBatty|GoingBatty]] ([[User talk:GoingBatty|talk]]) 00:57, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, removing the statement.--[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 02:39, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

==Edit of Talk Page==

I have deleted several subjects that I started that were more of a tantrum on my part and did not serve to improve the article. If deleting these subjects is not appropriate, please feel free to restore them. After some time, I will delete this message as well. Thank You. --[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 00:45, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
:Customarily we don't remove edits from talk pages except in cases where they aren't directly related to improving the article. In this case, and since they were your own edits, I don't see a problem. [[User:Rklawton|Rklawton]] ([[User talk:Rklawton|talk]]) 01:28, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
:I've re-added them since I find them to be somewhat informative. There's no need for removal. - [[User:M0rphzone|M0rphzone]] ([[User talk:M0rphzone|talk]]) 05:17, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

==Treatment==

Although IMHO there are other issues that lead to the Fear of Flying, I do not agree that hypnotherapy has any particular use. Therefore I disagree with this statement under the "Treatment" section

'''''Hypnotherapy generally involves regression to the ISE, uncovering the event, the emotions around the event, and helping the client understand the source of their fear. It is sometimes the case that the ISE has nothing to do with flying at all.'''''

As the statement has not reliable source associated with it, may it be removed?--[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 02:46, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

:For unsourced sentences that you think should be removed, my suggestion is to add {{tlx|citation needed}} after the sentence. If no one adds a reference after a reasonable amount of time, then go ahead and delete the sentence.
:For sentences you think could be improved, my suggestion is to start a discussion here with the original sentence and your proposal for change. Happy editing! [[User:GoingBatty|GoingBatty]] ([[User talk:GoingBatty|talk]]) 00:28, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

:Thank you, that is helpful, and I will utilize your suggestions.--[[User:Mt6617|Mt6617]] ([[User talk:Mt6617|talk]]) 01:01, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
==Book?==
Isn't this a book by [[Erica Jong]].[[User:Dogru144|Dogru144]] ([[User talk:Dogru144|talk]]) 19:34, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
:Yes, that article is at [[Fear of Flying (novel)]]. [[User:GoingBatty|GoingBatty]] ([[User talk:GoingBatty|talk]]) 01:43, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

== pteromeRhanophobia? ==

I've removed this word, for it seems to be a [[ghost word|ghost]]. If it were "pteromeChanophobia", it would at least segment as 'feather/wing-machine-fear'. But I can't make anything out of the form with the R; single -rh- doesn't come up internally in Greek scientific loans (just -rrh-) so that's initial; there is a ''πτέρωμα'' 'something feathered' but do we then have ''ῥανίς'' 'drop of liquid'? Unlikely.

Google searches are ambiguous. There are some hits but none is of the sort which couldn't've leaked out from Wikipedia itself.

I took the bold approach rather than just a "citation needed" 'cause the word's already done the damage of tempting someone into doing a move. But do add it back if you have a citation clearly dated before <s>2 April 2008</s> ''5 November 2006'' when [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Fear_of_flying&diff=prev&oldid=85805646 it was first added]. [[User:4pq1injbok|4pq1injbok]] ([[User talk:4pq1injbok|talk]]) 21:01, 18 July 2012 (UTC) [Edited to reflect an earlier instance. [[User:4pq1injbok|4pq1injbok]] ([[User talk:4pq1injbok|talk]]) 21:20, 18 July 2012 (UTC)]

==Business Person==
Business person is a little more widely excepted than the american varient, "Businessperson"(As a compound word.) so i believe that it should be changed to "business person"(With a space), simply because it's more widely used. before anyone starts to worry, please do not. i'm mearly moving to have the version of the term that more people are likely to recognize be put there, instead of the American version, ok? thanks.
PS i would have put it back, but then i'd get attacked for 3reverts crap. [[Special:Contributions/199.101.61.190|199.101.61.190]] ([[User talk:199.101.61.190|talk]]) 17:41, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

:''Businessperson'' should remain in the article for two reasons. First, the American spelling of ''airplane'' is used first in the lead, rather than the Commonwealth spelling of ''aeroplane'', so that suggests the article is in American English. Second, if we try to be neutral about it, the Wikipedia article is titled [[businessperson]], so why not use the spelling used in the subject's article? —'''[[User:C.Fred|C.Fred]]''' ([[User_talk:C.Fred|talk]]) 18:45, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm also saying this for the sake of screen readers, i mean they don't know what the hell a "booz eye nesper soan" is, which is also why i condemn American english strictly to US related articles, and i've never heard of an aeroplane. [[Special:Contributions/199.101.61.190|199.101.61.190]] ([[User talk:199.101.61.190|talk]]) 06:43, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

:That seems like a problem with your screen reader, not with Wikipedia. (Does it have a user-configurable list of pronunciation exceptions?) I don't myself care about American versus Commonwealth English or any of that, but it's clearly infeasible for Wikipedia to have to bend to accommodate all the pieces of software that might be out there. (At least, so goes the prevailing ethos around here. For instance, it's also a standard to use Unicode everywhere possible even for character ranges where font support is scant to nonexistent, which is a case which makes me doubt this principle a little more.) [[User:4pq1injbok|4pq1injbok]] ([[User talk:4pq1injbok|talk]]) 05:28, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

::This article uses American and other versions of English. There are a LOT of articles that do. Respectfully, [[User:Tiyang|Tiyang]] ([[User talk:Tiyang|talk]]) 05:26, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

== pteromerhanophobia ==

I came across the word "pteromerhanophobia" used for fear of flying... not sure if that's a real word or not. Google finds some matches. [[User:Jason Quinn|Jason Quinn]] ([[User talk:Jason Quinn|talk]]) 04:41, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
: It is wholly '''not''' a cromulent word. It's a typo for a word which is itself little-used neologism, that someone added to Wikipedia at one point in the past and which then oozed out from there into various other Internet references. (See earlier on this talk page!) [[User:4pq1injbok|4pq1injbok]] ([[User talk:4pq1injbok|talk]]) 02:59, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

== Causes - Last Paragraph ==

If the engines of an aircraft fail, it will gently glide to earth??? The reality is that it will crash. [[User:Tiyang|Tiyang]] ([[User talk:Tiyang|talk]]) 05:06, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

== Pronunciation ==

Pronunciation of said word?--[[User:Solomonfromfinland|Solomonfromfinland]] ([[User talk:Solomonfromfinland|talk]]) 00:00, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

== Change title: pteromerhanophobia is not a word. ==

Would we change the tile? Apparently pteromerhanophobia is a typo for pteromechanophobia (built from ptero-, mechano-, and -phobia, all existing Greek roots). Wikipedia is helping the diffusion of the wrong name. <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Msferruzza|Msferruzza]] ([[User talk:Msferruzza|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Msferruzza|contribs]]) 14:25, 11 January 2014 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:I agree - should this not be moved? We're propagating incorrect information. --[[User:Nicholasjf21|Nicholasjf21]] ([[User talk:Nicholasjf21|talk]]) 12:09, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
:I agree that it seems likely that "pteromerhanophobia" originated as a typo, but in any case [[Fear of flying]] is undoubtedly the [[WP:COMMONNAME]] and nobody has argued otherwise on this Talk page. I have posted a [[Wikipedia:Requested move]]. [[User:Qwfp|Qwfp]] ([[User talk:Qwfp|talk]]) 14:43, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 15:33, 12 March 2024

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 15 September 2020 and 17 November 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Zeinasbai. Peer reviewers: Aramirez182.

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