Jump to content

Talk:Self-hosting: Difference between revisions

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Content deleted Content added
Cewbot (talk | contribs)
m Maintain {{WPBS}}: 1 WikiProject template. Create {{WPBS}}.
 
(30 intermediate revisions by 13 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
{{WikiProject Computing|class=start|importance=}}
{{WikiProject banner shell|
{{WikiProject Disambiguation}}
==Gentoo==
}}
I went to #gentoo and asked them how you could deal with non-free packages in Gentoo. I was surprised to learn that Gentoo includes some non-free packages which aren't available in source form, and therefore that Gentoo isn't self-hosting. I'm removing it from the page unless someone can rectify.--[[User:Chealer|Chealer]] 00:32, 2005 Apr 3 (UTC)
{{Archives}}
:Aren't the non-free ones also non-core/non-essential? If so, then Gentoo could certainly be added to the list. --[[User:TheParanoidOne|TheParanoidOne]] 23:39, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
== Split suggestion ==


{{discussion top|result=Split per unanimous support [[User:Trialpears|Trialpears]] ([[User talk:Trialpears|talk]]) 15:28, 27 May 2019 (UTC)}}
== Energy systems? ==
The two senses of '''self-hosting''' suggested in the article do not seem to be related. I suggest replacing this with a disambiguation and splitting to [[Self-hosting (compilers)]] (which would match the title style of [[Bootstrapping (compilers)]]) and [[Self-hosting (web services)]]. Please also suggest alternate article titles. —<span style="font-variant: small-caps;">[[User:Theodore Kloba|Theodore Kloba]]</span> ([[User talk:Theodore Kloba|☎]]) 19:08, 3 October 2017 (UTC)


:Yeah, these two topics do not have anything to do with each other except for computers. They should most definitely be split. – [[User:Hamuko|Hamuko]] ([[User talk:Hamuko|talk]]) 19:45, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
I added the paragraph concerning self hosting of energy systems as I have encountered misunderstanding of how renewable energy systems can self host. This concept may have been formalised in connection with software toolchains and operating systems etc. but it is applicable to other fields, and in my view this article should reflect this fact. [[User:Copsewood|Copsewood]] ([[User talk:Copsewood|talk]]) 21:43, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


:Does anyone else use this terminology besides you? --[[User:Fubar Obfusco|FOo]] ([[User talk:Fubar Obfusco|talk]]) 08:40, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
:{{Agree}} The new titles look good to me. [[User:Franklin Yu|Franklin Yu]] ([[User talk:Franklin Yu|talk]]) 15:43, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
:{{Agree}} Except that one of the articles will be a stub unless someone has anything substantial to write on it. [[User:Rp|Rp]] ([[User talk:Rp|talk]]) 19:04, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
:{{Agree}} This really is necessary to avoid confusion. -[[User:Kristbaum|Kristbaum]] ([[User talk:Kristbaum|talk]]) 18:46, 20 October 2018 (UTC)


:{{Agree}} except that I'm not sure ''web services'' is the right term to use - it has a technical, more specific meaning, which can lead to confusion. Why not ''(web applications)'' ? [[User:Rp|Rp]] ([[User talk:Rp|talk]])
== FASM? ==


:{{agree}} Although I prefer the term "web services" while noting that non-web services my also be self-hosted, FTP servers for instance. But that latter point could be treated as a special case within the new article because these non-web services are becoming increasingly uncommon. HTH. [[User:RobbieIanMorrison|RobbieIanMorrison]] ([[User talk:RobbieIanMorrison|talk]]) 19:44, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
Does FASM belong in the list of self-hosting languages? It is an assembler, not a language. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/62.213.133.83|62.213.133.83]] ([[User talk:62.213.133.83|talk]]) 14:46, 16 February 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
{{discussion bottom}}
Tagging {{reply to|77.173.90.33}} who requested the closure. [[User:Trialpears|Trialpears]] ([[User talk:Trialpears|talk]]) 15:29, 27 May 2019 (UTC)


== Now that this is a dab page ==
Yes it builds itself. You only need FASM to build FASM. Being a language ain't got nothing to do with it. --[[User:Frozenport|Frozenport]] ([[User talk:Frozenport|talk]]) 04:22, 3 February 2013 (UTC)


...there should be no links to this page, but there are many. Would someone who understands this stuff please disambiguate the incoming links? One of the best tools is [[User:Qwertyytrewqqwerty/DisamAssist|DisamAssist]]. Pinging those who took part in the split discussion: {{ping|RobbieIanMorrison|Kristbaum|Rp|Franklin Yu|Hamuko|Theodore Kloba}}
== How about the web stuff? ==
How about self hosted as in "self hosted blog", "self hosted app"? If you do a Google search for "self hosted", except the Wikipedia result you'll see what I'm talking about.
[[User:Nonsalant|Nonsalant]] ([[User talk:Nonsalant|talk]]) 19:04, 17 December 2008 (UTC)


I’ve also left a talkback for [[User:77.173.90.33|77.173.90.33]].
== What about C++? ==
According to Bjarne Stroustrup, the first C++ compiler was written in C++, therefore making it a self-hosting language. (Source: http://www2.research.att.com/~bs/bs_faq.html#bootstrapping) So, shouldn't it be added? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/87.210.84.14|87.210.84.14]] ([[User talk:87.210.84.14|talk]]) 00:01, 12 December 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


Thanks! — [[User:Gorthian|Gorthian]] ([[User talk:Gorthian#top|talk]]) 19:10, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
== "Other Meaning" ==


I'm sure that's not the right way to deal with multiple meanings. [[User:Tesspub|Tesspub]] ([[User talk:Tesspub|talk]]) 00:13, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
: Just to note that I simply voiced an opinion and know nothing about incoming links. [[User:RobbieIanMorrison|RobbieIanMorrison]] ([[User talk:RobbieIanMorrison|talk]]) 19:28, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
: Done, I think. {{ping|Gorthian}} Thanks for suggesting DisamAssist.—<span style="font-variant: small-caps;">[[User:Theodore Kloba|Theodore Kloba]]</span> ([[User talk:Theodore Kloba|☎]]) 20:00, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

:: It’s a great tool. But I still see [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Self-hosting&namespace=0&limit=100|between 50 and 100 articles]] linking to this page...? Are you in the midst of doing them?
:I've removed it. This expression does appear to be used by some bloggers as meaning "running your own web server rather than using a commercial provider", but it isn't clear to me that there's enough of a topic there to be an article. —[[User:Fubar Obfusco|FOo]] ([[User talk:Fubar Obfusco|talk]]) 06:52, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
:: I’d do it myself, but you REALLY don’t want amateurs fixing links to these articles. ;-) — [[User:Gorthian|Gorthian]] ([[User talk:Gorthian#top|talk]]) 20:05, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

::: I only fixed the ones in article namespace. Is it necessary to correct the ones in User and Talk spaces?—<span style="font-variant: small-caps;">[[User:Theodore Kloba|Theodore Kloba]]</span> ([[User talk:Theodore Kloba|☎]]) 20:49, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
== How about RepRap? ==
::: The link is invalid, but I got that you meant {{What links here|Self-hosting}}. Currently the list is almost empty so I guess it's done. --[[User:Franklin Yu|Franklin Yu]] ([[User talk:Franklin Yu|talk]]) 00:38, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

:::: Sorry, I had to run off for most the day. I must have failed to purge the page I tried to link to; everything’s done now (yes, only in article space). Thank you, [[User:Theodore Kloba|Theodore Kloba]], for taking care of them! — [[User:Gorthian|Gorthian]] ([[User talk:Gorthian#top|talk]]) 04:13, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
It is looks like a hardware self-hosting--[[User:Nashev|Nashev]] ([[User talk:Nashev|talk]]) 13:28, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
:Looks like I'm late to the party. Only [[Self-hosting]], [[Self-hosted]], User pages and Talk pages link to this page now. [[User:Rp|Rp]] ([[User talk:Rp|talk]]) 07:42, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

== Java, rly? ==

I like to dispute the claim that Java is self-hosting. Sure, the Java API and Java compiler are/can be written and compiled in Java, but the Java virtual machine required to run Java bytecode is still written in a different language that is native to the host system (usually C/C++). --[[User:Zom-B|Zom-B]] ([[User talk:Zom-B|talk]]) 17:14, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Java is definitely not self hosting. you still need c/c++ to compile the java runtime components. [[User:Ht990332|Ht990332]] ([[User talk:Ht990332|talk]]) 08:23, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

== C. Bohm ==

Doesn't Corrado Bohm's PhD thesis from 1951 describe an earlier self-hosting compiler than those mentioned in the article? According to [http://www.corradobohm.it/Corrado_Bohm/Biography.html]: "As remarked by D.E. Knuth in his paper “The early development of programming languages” ...: “Böhm’s dissertation was especially remarkable because he not only described a complete compiler, he also defined that compiler in its own language!..." [[User:Gf uip|Gf uip]] ([[User talk:Gf uip|talk]]) 18:35, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

== c# seems self hosting... ==

The .NET framework, what C# is built on, is built on C# (or VB, but doesn't really matter). Shouldn't it be classed as selfhosting? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/86.155.112.141|86.155.112.141]] ([[User talk:86.155.112.141|talk]]) 10:24, 16 February 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== It has to start somewhere ==
If the first program to be self-hosted was a LISP compiler, what was the previous LISP compiler compiled against? If it wasn't self-hosted, what was that compiler compiled against, and if that was wasn't self hosted, see where this is going?

If Linux was made on Minix, what was Minux made on (another Unix probably, in which case, what was Unix made on), and what was the OS that Minux/Unix was made on made on?

Latest revision as of 16:29, 27 August 2024

Split suggestion

[edit]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
Split per unanimous support Trialpears (talk) 15:28, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The two senses of self-hosting suggested in the article do not seem to be related. I suggest replacing this with a disambiguation and splitting to Self-hosting (compilers) (which would match the title style of Bootstrapping (compilers)) and Self-hosting (web services). Please also suggest alternate article titles. —Theodore Kloba () 19:08, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, these two topics do not have anything to do with each other except for computers. They should most definitely be split. – Hamuko (talk) 19:45, 5 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Agree The new titles look good to me. —Franklin Yu (talk) 15:43, 15 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Agree Except that one of the articles will be a stub unless someone has anything substantial to write on it. Rp (talk) 19:04, 2 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Agree This really is necessary to avoid confusion. -Kristbaum (talk) 18:46, 20 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Agree except that I'm not sure web services is the right term to use - it has a technical, more specific meaning, which can lead to confusion. Why not (web applications) ? Rp (talk)
Agree Although I prefer the term "web services" while noting that non-web services my also be self-hosted, FTP servers for instance. But that latter point could be treated as a special case within the new article because these non-web services are becoming increasingly uncommon. HTH. RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 19:44, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Tagging @77.173.90.33: who requested the closure. Trialpears (talk) 15:29, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Now that this is a dab page

[edit]

...there should be no links to this page, but there are many. Would someone who understands this stuff please disambiguate the incoming links? One of the best tools is DisamAssist. Pinging those who took part in the split discussion: @RobbieIanMorrison, Kristbaum, Rp, Franklin Yu, Hamuko, and Theodore Kloba:

I’ve also left a talkback for 77.173.90.33.

Thanks! — Gorthian (talk) 19:10, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Just to note that I simply voiced an opinion and know nothing about incoming links. RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 19:28, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Done, I think. @Gorthian: Thanks for suggesting DisamAssist.—Theodore Kloba () 20:00, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It’s a great tool. But I still see between 50 and 100 articles linking to this page...? Are you in the midst of doing them?
I’d do it myself, but you REALLY don’t want amateurs fixing links to these articles. ;-) — Gorthian (talk) 20:05, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I only fixed the ones in article namespace. Is it necessary to correct the ones in User and Talk spaces?—Theodore Kloba () 20:49, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The link is invalid, but I got that you meant Pages that link to "Self-hosting". Currently the list is almost empty so I guess it's done. --Franklin Yu (talk) 00:38, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I had to run off for most the day. I must have failed to purge the page I tried to link to; everything’s done now (yes, only in article space). Thank you, Theodore Kloba, for taking care of them! — Gorthian (talk) 04:13, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like I'm late to the party. Only Self-hosting, Self-hosted, User pages and Talk pages link to this page now. Rp (talk) 07:42, 6 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]