Talk:Bulgarian alphabet

Including examples

I think the table should include Bulgarian words as examples. Also, what about the use of "m"? /aswler/

That's a possibility. What about the "m"? --JorisvS (talk) 08:01, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Use of Roman script in Bulgarian

What about including both the romanized and the unromanized forms for comparison? —Dave Andrew (talk) 00:49, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

I edited the section a little bit. --V111P (talk) 06:35, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Cursive letters

Hi there. As a learner, I found the cursive forms very confusing - and keep falling for it. Any objections to adding a column with the cursive forms? (I think that's what the reader above was referring to with "m" as in, "t") 87.112.180.82 (talk) 20:56, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

 Done 87.112.180.82 (talk) 03:35, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Actually... in my book they use g for lowercase д, not д... Can someone confirm please? 87.112.180.82 (talk) 03:45, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Yes, but you have to use a cursive Cyrillic font to see the cursive forms. See the pictures at Cyrillic script#Letterforms and typography. --V111P (talk) 04:38, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, what do you mean? That we need to clarify that in the article, or add a reference to that section? Or that you oppose my change? Incidentally, I notice that lowercase italic п (п), in my font, doesn't look like n, but it just looks like a slanted п... Shall we just cheat and use italic latin letters, and say that that's what they look like (with some fonts)? 87.112.180.82 (talk) 21:17, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Well, your solution clearly didn't work, right? The only way to reliably show the cursive letters in Wikipedia is with an image, so I just included the image from the Cyrillic script article in this one as well. --V111P (talk) 18:57, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

I think it's important to show the cursive characters right next to the roman ones. Incidentally, I notice that your picture is also missing the п, ironically. 87.112.180.82 (talk) 07:47, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

It's not "my" picture, and it shows exactly what you want - both the print and cursive letters. And п and n are not significantly different, that's why it's missing. --V111P (talk) 07:57, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

No, the reason why it's missing is because that image is incomplete. Also it suggests, and you also seem to believe, that you need an entirely different font to see the different shapes, which is not true. In my version I could see the cursive characters. I tested it with IE, Firefox and Chrome on a vanilla Windows 10 machine, so I don't see how you can claim that it "clearly didn't work". The only missing character was the g for д. What font are you displaying Wikipedia with? Anyway, I accept that we need to cater for many different systems, so I'll try the same solution as the one adopted in the (complete) table below the picture in the section you pointed me to. 87.112.180.82 (talk) 23:18, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

I use Linux/Ubuntu. In your old version of the article, I see the cursive characters in Chrome, but not in Firefox, and I was using Firefox last time. Now I see them in Firefox too. As for д, that is the form used in italicized text in books, so it's not incorrect. The g-form is used in handwriting (also, б always looks like that in books, italicized text or not, but handwritten is more like as in the image). --V111P (talk) 03:01, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarifications and further testing. I have folded in your comments about д, please check. I'll try again to sort out the footnotes, I tried to follow WP:REFNAME earlier, but failed miserably. 87.112.180.82 (talk) 07:01, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

My latest revision has been reverted by someone who thinks I made unconstructive edits, removed material, and who felt I needed to read WP:Edit war and "take a load off". They didn't provide any evidence of that despite my explicit requests. 87.112.180.82 (talk) 07:46, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

I have improved (I think) the table footnotes. Now I need to work out how to use numbers (less confusing) instead of letters. 87.112.180.82 (talk) 08:22, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

The second of the two listed cursive forms for "Д" is still the Latin character. And it does look (in my browser: Firefox on Linux/Suse) like a latin character and not like a Cyrillic one. As for the user who reverted your edits earlier, it looks like semi-automated vandalism hunting – most of the time these can safely be undone without further fuss. Uanfala (talk) 10:09, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Russian cursive has good pictures of all the letters in their handwritten forms as used in handwriting in Bulgaria too, but they also include the Russian-only letters. --V111P (talk) 18:50, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

I just extracted from this table, I hope it's acceptable. 87.112.180.82 (talk) 08:12, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

That's better in my opinion, because otherwise somebody may copy it and use it thinking it's the Cyrillic letter. By the way, the б-form from the same column in that table is in the (non-cursive) font used by my Firefox (but not Chrome) in the drop-down menu in my Watchlist in the Bulgarian Wikipedia. Another letter which is very different in handwriting is ч, it looks more like handwritten latin r. --V111P (talk) 01:08, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

"otherwise somebody may copy it and use it thinking it's the Cyrillic letter" - ah, very good point, it didn't occur to me - yet I do that all the time! Please let us have some sources/images for that funny ч character and I can have a go at inserting it (standard trick doesn't work). Thanks. 87.112.180.82 (talk) 22:05, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

You can see that ч in Russian cursive, but even better here in the (in the image with the alphabet): [1]. --V111P (talk) 00:40, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

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Is it possible to provide an image?

The default font used by my (and presumably most) people's browser displays Russian forms of most cyrillic letters, whereas Bulgarian forms are normally quite different. For example, lowercase ж and ю will normally have ascenders in Bulgarian, whereas in Russian they are typically just smaller versions of the uppercase letters. An image illustrating the more typical letterforms used in Bulgarian might be useful. - Andre — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.72.141.115 (talk) 06:39, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

в, к, ж and ю have ascenders in some fonts. Some other letters are also sometimes different. I noticed that they often use such a font on the back cover of books (including The Official Orthographic Dictionary), but never inside. You can look at the picture on this page (on the left - Russian Cyrillic, on the right - Bulgarian), they claim that the Bulgarian letters acquired different shapes from the Russian ones in the middle of the 20th century. I added a picture of this different variant of the alphabet from the Bulgarian wiki article. --V111P (talk) 22:20, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

благодарност -- André — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.72.141.115 (talk) 05:10, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

Small letter forms

Whilst the illustration in the box presents distinctive Bulgarian letter forms for small, roman style, В, Г, Д, З, and Т, the table further down lists the common (Russian) letter forms for those very letters. For small З, this is the only letter form given in the list, for the remaining four, the particular form is only listed for the cursive variant.

What is the correct form for those five small, roman style, letters of the Bulgarian alphabet?

And, by the way, does anybody know of a good, yet cheap or even PD, Bulgarian font?

--Knottel (talk) 11:54, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

It is claimed that the ones in the image are the "correct" ones, however the other ones are more commonly used. See the previous topic above. Fonts --V111P (talk) 05:45, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

I was surprised to see the cursive-looking forms for typographic г and д given that they don't appear on the government website. I'm a Russian speaker, but from time to time encounter Bulgarian and have never seen any but rather orthodox Kyrillic chars used. 100.6.117.186 (talk) 11:54, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Preferred letter shapes

The article says "Although Bulgarian uses the Cyrillic alphabet, some preferred letter shapes in Bulgaria are different to those in Russian use, however they're rarely used and most typefaces don't support it.".

This needs explaining. To whom are they preferred if they are rarely used?

Also shouldn't "don't support it" be changed to "don't support them"? 217.33.48.2 (talk) 12:02, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

I improved it a little bit. I don't know exactly who prefers them so I removed that word (I know the news site dnevnik.bg uses them). Also see my comment above in the topic "Is it possible to provide an image?" --V111P (talk) 00:32, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Weird Bulgarian script

"Бъʌƨарсkа Κириʌиųа Аʒбуkа". What is this weird script? Chiagozie Elobuike (talk) 01:40, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Mixed letters from different alphabets (see above for why they try to make them look different from the international Cyrillic letters). --V111P (talk) 15:08, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Continuous insistence on use of a wrong name for the alphabet in Bulgarian

While this has already been changed in the text, I suspect it will be reverted like it was many other times before, and the problem still remains in the image. The correct version is "Българска кирилица" in bulgarian, following basic grammatical rules. "кирилица азбука" is a ridiculously wrong form, as in bulgarian, "кирилица" is a standalone noun, not an adjective, and thus cannot be paired with "азбука" in this form. If we insist on using "азбука", a correct form, although way less used, would be "Българска кирилска азбука", using the actual adjective needed for the correct spelling. I also suggest that we change the image to something more accurate, so as to avoid further confusion, or to state in its description the mistake so as to avoid disinformation on basis of use of the image. 188.254.160.174 (talk) 07:39, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for taking the time to explain that as the other editor didn’t want to believe just one native speaker. That heading in the image is not necessary anyway, as the infobox already has the name of the alphabet. We could remove that image until we fix it. --V111P (talk) 21:10, 11 February 2023 (UTC)