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== Exact dates ==
== Brendan R Dassey ==


Hi
This article needs exact dates given wherever possible and it needs to be updated frequently.--[[User:Hraefen|Hraefen]] 02:39, 21 November 2005 (UTC)


Hoping for some guidance I have just spent two days creating a page on Brendan Dassey for it to be deleted.
==Brendan Dassey==
There is enough information released to start a seperate article on Brendan Dassey.--[[User:Flaminbassist|Flaminbassist]] 11:58, 23 April 2006
:[[WP:BB|Be bold]] and go ahead and create it. --[[User:Mtz206|mtz206]] 00:46, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
:Halbach too. [[User:Royalbroil|Royalbroil]] 06:05, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
::I would create the articles, but I have interest since Halbach was a somewhat distant relative of mind (second or third cousin). Someone please create these articles! [[User:Royalbroil|Royalbroil]] 00:54, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
*If you're aware of your possible subjectivity on matters relating to Avery/Halbach/Dassey to the point where you might not want to write the article yourself, I think this is a good indication that you're striving for objectivity and should therefore write the article yourself. I haven't noticed you making any detrimental or [[POV]] edits to this article. Go for it.--[[User:Hraefen|Hraefen]] 15:50, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
:I've just been looking for online news sources regarding Brendan Dassey, and all I can find is page after page of deleted pages. Anyone know why the media have been deleting so many articles about Brendan Dassey? [[User:Danrok|Danrok]] ([[User talk:Danrok|talk]]) 00:37, 20 December 2015 (UTC)
::[http://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines/2397896.html], [http://host.madison.com/news/local/judge-confession-admissible-prosecutors-can-use-brendan-dassey-s-statements/article_dd507412-afe0-57bc-8fb5-0b9fac5958bb.html], [http://www.weau.com/home/headlines/3050076.html], [http://host.madison.com/news/local/testimony-on-false-confessions-allowed/article_87b50c1d-7d2f-5420-8c75-e3e00835e76f.html], [http://host.madison.com/news/local/call-ok-d-as-murder-evidence/article_016ca2fa-d67b-57a0-b63c-d7be35f64283.html], [http://host.madison.com/news/local/dassey-jury-called-educated-and-fair/article_41dc186a-9aba-5112-87d0-da4c477e15d8.html], [http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/29363754.html], [http://host.madison.com/news/local/calumet-deputy-grilled-in-dassey-murder-trial/article_726cf096-7d6e-5300-976c-9b6dc0c5a223.html], [http://host.madison.com/news/local/jury-gets-to-hear-dassey-interview/article_e005053e-760a-547b-b3d1-5362233549b3.html], [http://host.madison.com/news/local/tape-shows-dassey-expressing-regret/article_20a00475-021e-5adb-a791-56cd18837b76.html], [http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/29420189.html], [http://host.madison.com/news/local/teen-recants-murder-confession-brendan-dassey-says-he-didn-t/article_088c183d-b85d-5483-8e16-d6a6cc9c373c.html], [http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/29441414.html], [http://host.madison.com/news/local/experts-disagree-on-confession-psychologists-testify-in-trial-of-teen/article_d94c9be8-478b-55e9-a8fb-e6a906d2b5dc.html], [http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/29452139.html], [http://host.madison.com/news/local/parole-a-question-for-boy-in-halbach-case/article_37ee2f9a-3fc8-5615-9c12-eacf3d604f23.html], [http://www.wrn.com/2007/08/dassey-gets-life-possible-parole-in-41-years/], [http://host.madison.com/news/local/state-having-difficult-time-finding-lawyer-for-dassey/article_831024bd-4bc2-539f-8865-5821769b2df1.html], [http://host.madison.com/news/local/avery-nephew-appeals-in-works-they-were-convicted-in-the/article_5fbcb06a-01f0-5847-a623-8eef5d34ca6c.html], [http://wsau.com/news/articles/2010/dec/15/judge-denies-brendan-dasseys-bid-new-trial/], [http://milwaukee.suntimes.com/mil-news/7/121/173205/teresa-halbach-homicide-wrongful-death-lawsuit-filed-against-steven-avery-brendan-dassey-dismissed], [http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/news/2015/06/16/teresa-halbach-family-drops-wrongful-death-lawsuit/28816579/?from=global&sessionKey=&autologin=], [http://www.fdlreporter.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/99999999/APC0101/51108032&theme=MISSINGHALBACH&template=theme], [http://articles.chicagotribune.com/keyword/teresa-halbach] -- [[Special:Contributions/32.218.38.209|32.218.38.209]] ([[User talk:32.218.38.209|talk]]) 18:06, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
*There is definitely enough information for Brendan Dassey to stand on its own as an article. Has anyone looked into creating it yet? [[User:Comatmebro|<font color="green"><b>Comatmebro</b></font>]] [[User talk:Comatmebro]] 00:33, 13 January 2016 (UTC)


My focus was on the trial and interview transcripts and coerced confessions and wrongful conviction dialogue in the states.
== Source for first sentence ==


Im new to Wikipedia so all advice most welcome, I would like to simply call the page Brendan Dassey - can I please get some feedback
Do we have a source for the claim that he is the "first person in the U.S. to not only be charged with a homicide after being exonerated by DNA evidence for a previous crime, but to be convicted as well". [[User:Silverfish|Silverfish]] 19:26, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


Many thanks


[[User:Tracy Symonds-Keogh|Tracy Symonds-Keogh]] ([[User talk:Tracy Symonds-Keogh|talk]]) 11:04, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
== Petition for presidential pardon ==
: {{ping|Tracy Symonds-Keogh}} A separate page for Brendan Dassey may be appreciated, provided that the subject meets Wikipedia's [[WP:Notability|notability guidelines]] and the sources are [[WP:reliable sources|reliable]]. It's important to note that as Brendan Dassey is a living person, Wikipedia has higher standards for content inclusion, which can be found at: [[Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons]].
: With that said, it may be useful for you to use this article on [[Steven Avery]] as a template for the format that is expected for a biographical article and for a good idea of how Wikipedia's [[WP:NPOV|neutral point of view]] is applied. Additionally, this article contains many references to sources (some in relation to Brendan) which are considered to be reliable, and which you may find useful. Hope this helps. &#32;&#8239;<span style="text-shadow:0px 0px 2em #eea">[[User:Adrian232|Adrian]]</span>[[User talk:Adrian232#top|<sup>[232]</sup>]] 04:16, 6 June 2016 (UTC)


::FWIW, I'm reasonably certain that a separate Brendan Dassey article would fail [[WP:N]], since he is not notable for anything other than the Avery trial. Pretty much all the sourced content on him is already in the [[Steven Avery]] and ''[[Making a Murderer]]'' articles. [[User:DoctorJoeE|<span style="color:green;">DoctorJoeE</span>]]&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/DoctorJoeE|<sup><span style="color:maroon;">review transgressions</span></sup>]]/[[User talk:DoctorJoeE|<span style="color:maroon;"><sub>talk to me!</sub></span>]] 18:35, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
The part about a petition for a presidential pardon should include the fact that the United States Constitution does not grant the President the power to pardon state offenses.
:::Even if a subject passes [[WP:N]], sometimes it's still better for the reader if it's covered on the page of another topic -- see [[WP:NOPAGE]]. This is one of those cases. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 14:47, 2 March 2018 (UTC)


== Move discussion in progress ==
The petition created on January 7. 2016, should link to the whitehouse.gov petition, to avoid confusion. <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2.110.28.129|2.110.28.129]] ([[User talk:2.110.28.129|talk]]) 01:02, 16 January 2016 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


There is a move discussion in progress on [[Talk:Stephen Avery#Requested move 18 April 2020 |Talk:Stephen Avery]] which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. <!-- Talk:Stephen Avery crosspost --> —[[User:RMCD bot|RMCD bot]] 01:48, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
== "Murderer" ==


== Chronology ==
Should we call him a murderer, instead of someone convicted of murder? Especially since the authorities were wrong once already in his case? I worry that when journalists and so forth pile on to someone who has been convicted, they create the impression that the matter is settled, but as the present example (and many others) show, it merely means that the state was, in the opinion of a jury, able to meet its burden in this case.[[Special:Contributions/71.191.44.242|71.191.44.242]] ([[User talk:71.191.44.242|talk]]) 01:43, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:I just want to say I thought this whole story stunk when I first heard it back in 2005. Really, that someone proven innocent of rape by the Innocence Project later goes on to commit a brutal rape and murder worse than the first? And all while he was suing the county for millions of dollars. I'm glad to see that Netflix causing people to take a second look at this very fishy case. <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/167.230.96.8|167.230.96.8]] ([[User talk:167.230.96.8|talk]]) 21:15, 22 December 2015 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
::I agree. Someone sitting on a 38 million dollar pot of gold is '''not''' going to jeopardize his attempt to get his gold with a rape and murder of another human being. Furthermore spending 18 years in prison will induce him not to go anywhere near a prison again. [[Special:Contributions/175.45.116.66|175.45.116.66]] ([[User talk:175.45.116.66|talk]]) 04:03, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
:::Plenty of people commit crimes for which there is little doubt they were perpetrators of after spending very long stretches in prison again for crimes there's little doubt they were perpetrators of. In fact, there are those that suggest the system in the US almost encourages repeat offenders in some circumstances. Avery's circumstances are somewhat unique in that he didn't commit the crime he spent most of his pre-alleged murder time in prison for although from our article it sounds like he still would have spent at least a year of the 18 years he did spend for "assaulting his cousin and illegally possessing firearms". But this doesn't change the fact people can and do, do stuff which sends them to prison even after spending 18 years. <p>And rich people do commit crimes includes rapes and murders, even though they know if they go to prison they'll lose most utility of their money for a long time, perhaps for life. In fact, this includes people who aren't particularly rich themselves, but have inheritance or trust funds which they may lose partially or completely, perhaps even after they are released. It may be true these people often believe, sometimes unfortunately correctly, sometimes fortunately incorrectly that they will be able to get away from it due to the wealth, connections and how smart they are; whereas in this case Avery should have if anything thought he was at more risk, but even that's complicated. <p>None of this means he did commit the rape and murder, simply that the claim he didn't commit it because he probably due millions (I don't know if the $36 million figure is accurate since from what I've seen most figures like these used when filing lawsuits tend to end up lower when the case is either settled or if it goes to court, after the case & appeals are done, but millions seems likely for such a long stretch of wrongful imprisonment) or because he'd already been in prison for a long time, isn't very compelling. <p>[[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] ([[User talk:Nil Einne|talk]]) 06:20, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
I'm sure there are a lot of people in prison that wouldn't have committed a crime had they thought about consequences. The fact that he was potentially going to receive the proceeds of a lawsuit means nothing [[Special:Contributions/86.45.46.23|86.45.46.23]] ([[User talk:86.45.46.23|talk]]) 18:36, 17 January 2016 (UTC)


If Avery was sentenced to six years in prison for a crime in January 1985, how could he be in Green Bay in July 1985? [[User:McPhail|McPhail]] ([[User talk:McPhail|talk]]) 00:55, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
== Gregory Allen ==

Why is there no mention of the fact that Gregory Allen, and NOT Steven Avery, committed the 1985 assault against Penny Bergsten? [[User:Joltergeist|Joltergeist]] ([[User talk:Joltergeist|talk]]) 23:24, 20 December 2015 (UTC)
:You can add it to the article, if you wish. I think it needs a good update anyhow. The time line is pretty complicated, and as the article stands quite a few important parts are missing. [[User:Danrok|Danrok]] ([[User talk:Danrok|talk]]) 21:32, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
::I just added mention of Gregory Allen to the article. Also, this website is an exact timeline of the entire Steven Avery case(s). If someone would like to go through it and clean up the article in regards to the timeline, that might be helpful. I will also help here and there. http://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2015/12/22/steven-avery-case-timeline/77742664/ Cheers, [[User:Comatmebro|<font color="green"><b>Comatmebro</b></font>]] [[User talk:Comatmebro]] 19:35, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 4 January 2016 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Steven Avery|answered=yes}}
<!-- Be sure to state UNAMBIGUOUSLY your suggested changes; editors who can edit the protected page need to know what to add or remove. Blank edit requests WILL be declined. -->
<!-- Begin request -->

Replace "Avery is also focus of the Netflix documentary series Making a Murderer" with "Avery is also the focus of the Netflix documentary series Making a Murderer"
<!-- End request -->
[[User:KellenSun|KellenSun]] ([[User talk:KellenSun|talk]]) 21:29, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
:[[File:Yes check.svg|20px|link=]] '''Done'''<!-- Template:ESp --> [[User:Cannolis|Cannolis]] ([[User talk:Cannolis|talk]]) 21:48, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 5 January 2016 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Steven Avery|answered=yes}}
<!-- Be sure to state UNAMBIGUOUSLY your suggested changes; editors who can edit the protected page need to know what to add or remove. Blank edit requests WILL be declined. -->
<!-- Begin request -->
Please change, 10 years for violating Statute 941.29(2)(a) felony possession of a firearm to 5 years because although a class G Felony in Wisconsin is punishable by up to ten years in prison, Steven Avery was only sentenced to 5 years to run concurrent with the first count on his list of charges, 1st-Degree Intentional Homicide 940.01(1)(a) a Class A Felony, which he was sentenced to life imprisonment. <ref>Manitowoc County Case Number 2005CF000381</ref> <ref>STATE V. AVERY 804 N.W2D 216 (Wis.App. 2011)</ref>
<!-- End request -->
[[User:MBaness|MBaness]] ([[User talk:MBaness|talk]]) 20:34, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
:{{verified}}[[File:Yes check.svg|20px|link=]] '''Done'''<!-- Template:ESp -->&#32;&#8239;<span style="text-shadow:0px 0px 2em #eea">[[User:Adrian232|Adrian]]</span>[[User talk:Adrian232#top|<sup>[232]</sup>]] 22:35, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
{{reflist}}

== Semi-protected edit request on 6 January 2016 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Steven Avery|answered=yes}}
<!-- Be sure to state UNAMBIGUOUSLY your suggested changes; editors who can edit the protected page need to know what to add or remove. Blank edit requests WILL be declined. -->
<!-- Begin request -->
Please change the intro to exclude the word "convict." In my opinion, the word "convict" is subjective in nature and one should not be referred to as a convict as their primary title. How about, "Steven Avery is an American man from Manitowoc County, Wisconsin."


Thanks,

[[User:DhulW|DhulW]] ([[User talk:DhulW|talk]]) 08:18, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
<!-- End request -->
[[User:DhulW|DhulW]] ([[User talk:DhulW|talk]]) 08:18, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=]] '''Not done:''' please establish a [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for this alteration before using the {{tlx|edit semi-protected}} template.<!-- Template:ESp --> &#32;&#8239;<span style="text-shadow:0px 0px 2em #eea">[[User:Adrian232|Adrian]]</span>[[User talk:Adrian232#top|<sup>[232]</sup>]] 16:58, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

I disagree that that the term "convict" is subjective. Steven Avery has been convicted of murder whether everyone agrees with that outcome or not. This might be a topic that [[Wikipedia:CRIMEBIO|Project Criminal Biography]] can help with. I assume that project has more experience with how to identify persons convicted of a crime who continue to assert their innocence. I'm not necessarily opposed to changing the lead, but I think any changes should be in accordance with Wikipedia's established guidelines.[[User:Knope7|Knope7]] ([[User talk:Knope7|talk]]) 03:43, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
:Could we possibly use the term "convict" as an adjective? For example, the intro could read, "Steven Avery is a convicted American man from Manitowoc County, Wisconsin." He did have a legal trial where he was indeed convicted of a crime. Whether or not he continues to assert his innocence while in jail seems irrelevant to me. Cheers, [[User:Comatmebro|<font color="green"><b>Comatmebro</b></font>]] [[User talk:Comatmebro]] 19:25, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 8 January 2016 ==
{{edit semi-protected|Steven Avery|answered=yes}}
Can someone with a basic competency in English correct [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Steven_Avery&type=revision&diff=698923269&oldid=698822518 this recent gaffe]? The past tense of "plead" is either "pleaded" or "pled", not "plead". Thank you. [[Special:Contributions/32.218.40.141|32.218.40.141]] ([[User talk:32.218.40.141|talk]]) 03:56, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
*[[File:Yes check.svg|20px|link=]] '''Done'''<!-- Template:ESp --> So I changed it back to pleaded after finding this source that explains that that is the proper past tense of the verb plea, http://grammarist.com/usage/pleaded-pled/ --[[User:Majora|Majora]] ([[User talk:Majora|talk]]) 04:28, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
:*Thanks. The ''verb'' is "plead"; the ''noun'' is "plea". Example: "He entered a plea of guilty." "He pleaded/pled guilty." [[Special:Contributions/32.218.40.141|32.218.40.141]] ([[User talk:32.218.40.141|talk]]) 04:33, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

== Murder trial section ==

I would like to remove the text regarding the jury makeup. Its relevance is not explained, and there are weight issues.[[User:Which Hazel?|Which Hazel?]] ([[User talk:Which Hazel?|talk]]) 06:02, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
:The content is well sourced and appears to be relevant to the trial, even if it may not be pertinent to the article on Avery himself. Since there appears to be no article on the murder incident, this seems to be the most relevant place for that information.
:What I would propose instead is to fork parts of this article into a "Murder of Teresa Halbach" article, but that would need to be composed and created first. &#32;&#8239;<span style="text-shadow:0px 0px 2em #eea">[[User:Adrian232|Adrian]]</span>[[User talk:Adrian232#top|<sup>[232]</sup>]] 07:03, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
::You are missing the point; The amount of sources that discuss aspects of the trial dwarfs the jury composition. This article places too much weight by its sheer existence. Sure, "fix it" by adding other sources to fix the weight, but leaving it in implies this was a significant part of the trial, which it was not.[[User:Which Hazel?|Which Hazel?]] ([[User talk:Which Hazel?|talk]]) 10:46, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
It is frequently the case on WIkipedia that sections are not sized appropriately relative to their significance to the subject. The section on the jury makeup is about as short as possible to include the relevant information. The claims of jury makeup and intimidation are obviously very significant to this case and should remain (whether or not explained in the article, jury deliberations are arguably the most important part of any trial). [[Special:Contributions/2601:600:8200:1E0:8C61:C019:E3DB:AE|2601:600:8200:1E0:8C61:C019:E3DB:AE]] ([[User talk:2601:600:8200:1E0:8C61:C019:E3DB:AE|talk]]) 10:22, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
*Unquestionably any claims of jury intimidation belong if sourced. If it is too big/small, that is a matter of editing, not a matter of whether it should exist. Since he was released, this is exactly the kind of information that belongs in the article. [[User:Dennis Brown|<b>Dennis Brown</b>]] - [[User talk:Dennis Brown|<b>2&cent;</b>]] 00:27, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
::"Since he was released"??? I'm sure that's news to his family and lawyers. [[Special:Contributions/32.218.39.58|32.218.39.58]] ([[User talk:32.218.39.58|talk]]) 01:30, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
:::Was referring to September 11, 2003, got my cases confused... Point remains that it is relevant and sourced. [[User:Dennis Brown|<b>Dennis Brown</b>]] - [[User talk:Dennis Brown|<b>2&cent;</b>]] 09:14, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
::::This article is about Steven Avery, the person, not about the Halbach murder trial. If you want to start an article about the Halbach case, the info about the jurors would be appropriate. But it isn't in this article about Steven Avery, the person. [[Special:Contributions/32.218.152.133|32.218.152.133]] ([[User talk:32.218.152.133|talk]]) 16:27, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 15 January 2016 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Steven Avery|answered=yes}}
<!-- Be sure to state UNAMBIGUOUSLY your suggested changes; editors who can edit the protected page need to know what to add or remove. Blank edit requests WILL be declined. -->
<!-- Begin request -->

[https://www.bhwlawfirm.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Brenden-Dassey-Confession-Transcript.pdf Brendan Dassey confession to Agent Fassbender and Investigator Weigert.]
<!-- End request -->
[[User:Bhwlawfirm|Bhwlawfirm]] ([[User talk:Bhwlawfirm|talk]]) 19:05, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
:[[File:Red question icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=]] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format.<!-- Template:ESp --> --[[User:Allthefoxes|allthefoxes]] <sup>([[User_talk:Allthefoxes|Talk]])</sup> 22:06, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

== torturing the cat & assaulting his cousin ==

the reference on this wiki site to steven avery pouring gasoline onto his family cat & throwing it in the fire doesn't mention that the cat died. in the documentary, it was unclear whether the cat died or not because they didn't even mention the gasoline part (they simply said that steven was fooling around & tossed the cat in the fire, which may lead people to believe that the cat ran out of the fire since the viewers didn't know that it had 1st been soaked in gasoline). it would be more complete to include that information on this wiki site.

the documentary also mentions that steven avery ran his cousin off the road & masterbated in front of her (a sexual act, which may have played into his wrongful conviction of rape). this wiki site doesn't mention the sexual act in front of his female cousin....
:It doesn't mention it because it was just the cousin's unproven accusation. [[Special:Contributions/32.218.152.133|32.218.152.133]] ([[User talk:32.218.152.133|talk]]) 20:48, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

==[[Dr. Phil Show]]==
Two episodes (friday then monday after) were dedicated to discussing him and his case in response to the netflix documentary. Should we mention this exposure as notable? Phil engaged this news lady and had unique interviews with the sheriff. [[Special:Contributions/184.145.18.50|184.145.18.50]] ([[User talk:184.145.18.50|talk]]) 15:33, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
:There have been dozens of talk show episodes on Making a Murderer and the Halbach case. Why cherrypick Dr. Phil?? Not noteworthy. [[Special:Contributions/32.218.44.109|32.218.44.109]] ([[User talk:32.218.44.109|talk]]) 17:28, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
::Why is it not noteworthy? There is an entire pop culture section but only two things in it, why not flesh it out? [[User:Beach drifter|Beach drifter]] ([[User talk:Beach drifter|talk]]) 17:59, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
::: As mentioned, there have been dozens of shows about this case. Why is Dr Phil singled out with a section of its own. As a compromise, he could be mentioned in the pop culture section, or a new section under media coverage. --[[User:Dmol|Dmol]] ([[User talk:Dmol|talk]]) 18:13, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
::::Agreed, "Media Coverage" would sound much better. I'm just going to change the section name. I think the original editor made a new heading to try to keep it looking like the rest of the section, which had poor formatting anyways. [[User:Beach drifter|Beach drifter]] ([[User talk:Beach drifter|talk]]) 18:20, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

:In response to [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3A32.218.44.109&type=revision&diff=701663738&oldid=701633910 Beach drifter's statement]: Having a source is not the criterion for including information in an article. It also has to be cogent, relevant, important, and without undue emphasis on any particular pieces of information, which this is not.[[Special:Contributions/32.218.44.109|32.218.44.109]] ([[User talk:32.218.44.109|talk]]) 21:01, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
::I really think you are looking too much into this. This is one sentence. There is no undue weight. Weight is applied when there are conflicting viewpoints on a topic. This is much simpler than that, there are no viewpoints being argued. Criteria for a sentence to be in an article is not nearly what you are making it out to be. It is not the same as establishing notability for the article its self. I supported this edit solely because it was nice to see an IP make a good edit, which they even left a nice talk page note for. Then immediately someone wants to revert for no apparent reason. Lighten up. Improve the article instead of reverting everything. [[User:Beach drifter|Beach drifter]] ([[User talk:Beach drifter|talk]]) 05:09, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
:::I'd like to point out that reverting changes quite often does improve an article. There has to be a standard for inclusion of content in order to keep an article relevant and succinct. I'm not sure if Dr. Phil is particularly noteworthy, unless his show added meaningful information and/or it is mentioned in other reliable secondary sources. With that said, I think we still could include a shortlist of where Avery and his cases were mentioned in major parts of pop culture as long as it is restricted to a single sentence or two. Something along the lines of: ''Avery's case gained large coverage in news and talk shows including the Dr. Phil Show, etc, etc...'' That's terrible phrasing, but I think the gist is there. &#32;&#8239;<span style="text-shadow:0px 0px 2em #eea">[[User:Adrian232|Adrian]]</span>[[User talk:Adrian232#top|<sup>[232]</sup>]] 11:41, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
::::This seems reasonable. There are two issues here: (1.) Is the mention of Dr. Phil trivial? (2.) Is the mention cherry-picked? Adding other shows to the statement would both make the statement sound less trivial and broaden the content beyond one cherry-picked show. [[Special:Contributions/32.218.34.216|32.218.34.216]] ([[User talk:32.218.34.216|talk]]) 18:02, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 15:31, 11 September 2024

Brendan R Dassey

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Hi

Hoping for some guidance I have just spent two days creating a page on Brendan Dassey for it to be deleted.

My focus was on the trial and interview transcripts and coerced confessions and wrongful conviction dialogue in the states.

Im new to Wikipedia so all advice most welcome, I would like to simply call the page Brendan Dassey - can I please get some feedback

Many thanks

Tracy Symonds-Keogh (talk) 11:04, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Tracy Symonds-Keogh: A separate page for Brendan Dassey may be appreciated, provided that the subject meets Wikipedia's notability guidelines and the sources are reliable. It's important to note that as Brendan Dassey is a living person, Wikipedia has higher standards for content inclusion, which can be found at: Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons.
With that said, it may be useful for you to use this article on Steven Avery as a template for the format that is expected for a biographical article and for a good idea of how Wikipedia's neutral point of view is applied. Additionally, this article contains many references to sources (some in relation to Brendan) which are considered to be reliable, and which you may find useful. Hope this helps.  Adrian[232] 04:16, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW, I'm reasonably certain that a separate Brendan Dassey article would fail WP:N, since he is not notable for anything other than the Avery trial. Pretty much all the sourced content on him is already in the Steven Avery and Making a Murderer articles. DoctorJoeE review transgressions/talk to me! 18:35, 9 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Even if a subject passes WP:N, sometimes it's still better for the reader if it's covered on the page of another topic -- see WP:NOPAGE. This is one of those cases. EEng 14:47, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

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There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Stephen Avery which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 01:48, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Chronology

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If Avery was sentenced to six years in prison for a crime in January 1985, how could he be in Green Bay in July 1985? McPhail (talk) 00:55, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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