Talk:Yuri Kochiyama: Difference between revisions
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{{High traffic|date=18 may 2016|site=Google|url=http://www.google.com/}} |
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{{Press |
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| subject = article |
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| author = Mike Ma |
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| title = Wikipedia Editors Scrub References To Activist’s Bin Laden Praise Following Breitbart Article |
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| org = [[Breitbart News Network]] |
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| url = http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/05/20/wikipedia-editors-scrub-references-activists-bin-laden-praise-following-breitbart-article/ |
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| date = 20 May 2016 |
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| quote = Over the following 24 hours, her Wikipedia page was rewritten multiple times in an apparent attempt to suppress the damning quotes. |
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| accessdate = 21 May 2016 |
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{{Top 25 Report|May 8 2016 (3rd)}} |
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== Proposed Edits == |
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I notice that the existing article lacks mention of numerous organizations and movements that Kochiyama was a part of in a meaningful way – the Young Lords Party, Harlem Community for Self Defense, New York Justice for Vincent Chin Coalition, the Japanese American Redress and Reparations Movement, and the International Political Prisoner Rights Movement. The lead section mentions her anti-war stance and activism, yet the actual article does not describe her involvement in this. She was actually responsible for initiating a meeting between Malcolm X and the Hiroshima Nagasaki Peace Study Mission from Japan. I would hope to research her involvement in these organizations and her anti-war action, and create robust, well-cited edits to her article page.[[User:Vanuliarya|Vanuliarya]] ([[User talk:Vanuliarya|talk]]) 01:01, 17 September 2021 (UTC) |
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The current Wikipedia article of Yuri Kochiyama could benefit from more depth on the variety of activism that Kochiyama engaged in. The article mentions her involvement in multiple causes, including black separatism, the anti-war movement, reparations for Japanese-American internees, and the rights of political prisoners, yet only goes into some of these topics in the article itself. Furthermore, the two main categories of the article, “Activist life” and “Advocacy” are not substantial in length and do not cover the breadth of work done in these areas. [[User:Navenp|Navenp]] ([[User talk:Navenp|talk]]) 05:54, 28 January 2022 (UTC) |
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: Happy to add if you provide me links, thanks--[[User:Jacobin 357|Jacobin 357]] ([[User talk:Jacobin 357|talk]]) 19:26, 7 June 2023 (UTC) |
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==Black Liberation Movement (Black nationalism vs black liberation vs black separatism)== |
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Since there is no link to a Wikipedia page for ''Black Liberation Movement,'' that term should be defined within this article, at the very least to distinguish it from the literal black liberation movement successfully carried out by the early Republican Party and other abolitionists in the years preceding and immediately following the American Civil War. Any "black liberation" subsequent to the literal liberation of blacks in America would have to be figurative, and therefore its actual meaning should be explained in the article. - [[User:Embram|Embram]] ([[User talk:Embram|talk]]) 19:44, 19 May 2016 (UTC) |
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The description of her as a "black separatist" is being changed to "black liberation activist". Why? There is a Reliable Source confirming that she was a member of a black separatist organisation. Black separatists are a subset enclosed entirely within the set of black liberation activists, it is a more specific term and will get across the content of Kochiyama's beliefs more readily to the reader than "liberation". There is not a wiki article for "black liberation movement " whereas there IS one for 'black separatism", enabling the reader to click on the link to clarify the precise meaning of the term. Please justify your stance, but in the meantime I am reverting the change. [[User:NPalgan|NPalgan]] ([[User talk:NPalgan|talk]]) 14:40, 19 May 2016 (UTC) |
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:The only mention of "separatism" in the article is that she was ''invited'' to join the [[Republic of New Africa]]. I've changed it to "nationalism" which is more general and better supported by numerous sources. Nearly all of the sources cited in the article use "nationalism," and several use "liberation." I have yet to see "separatism" other than the aforementioned invitation. <b>[[User:Ohnoitsjamie|OhNo<font color="#D47C14">itsJamie</font>]] [[User talk:Ohnoitsjamie|<sup>Talk</sup>]]</b> 14:49, 19 May 2016 (UTC) |
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If you read the source linked, it clearly shows that she joined the RNA, and was completely in agreement with the black separeatist goal. [[User:NPalgan|NPalgan]] ([[User talk:NPalgan|talk]]) 15:14, 19 May 2016 (UTC) |
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The wikipedia article on Black separatism states that it is a subcategory of Black nationalism, so it is most precise to call Kochiyama a separatist, if this can be well sourced. [[User:NPalgan|NPalgan]] ([[User talk:NPalgan|talk]]) 15:16, 19 May 2016 (UTC) |
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: Nearly all of the sources support the more general positions of nationalism and liberation; you have so far one source that says she joined the RNA (but doesn't explicitly describe her as a separatism). That's a pretty tenuous link for appelation used in the lede. <b>[[User:Ohnoitsjamie|OhNo<font color="#D47C14">itsJamie</font>]] [[User talk:Ohnoitsjamie|<sup>Talk</sup>]]</b> 15:22, 19 May 2016 (UTC) |
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: But this is Kochiyama's authorised biography, published by UMinnesota press. I don't understand how you could read the source as not unambiguously proving she was a separatist. I understand that most sources describe her as a liberationist/nationalist. Imagine we were writing an article about a prominent Marxist. Most sources just describe the person as a marxist, but if we have a RS that states unambiguously that the person was a Maoist, wikipedia would go with Maoist as it's more specific and more precise and Maoist implies Marxist. [[User:NPalgan|NPalgan]] ([[User talk:NPalgan|talk]]) 15:30, 19 May 2016 (UTC) |
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:: I don't have access to the full-text, but using Google's book search, I'm not seeing anywhere that it unambigously describes her as being a separatist: [https://books.google.com/books?id=b1oowDNmgpoC&printsec=frontcover#v=snippet&q=separatist&f=false], [https://books.google.com/books?id=b1oowDNmgpoC&printsec=frontcover#v=snippet&q=separatism&f=false]. <b>[[User:Ohnoitsjamie|OhNo<font color="#D47C14">itsJamie</font>]] [[User talk:Ohnoitsjamie|<sup>Talk</sup>]]</b> 15:52, 19 May 2016 (UTC) |
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::: p. 184 "she sided with the need to build an independent black nation in the South". I can't see any ambiguity here, that's the dictionary definition of black separatism. [[User:NPalgan|NPalgan]] ([[User talk:NPalgan|talk]]) 15:55, 19 May 2016 (UTC) |
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:::: So you're using one sentence from one source to define her as a separatist in the lede paragraph? How is that better than describing her in the lede as a nationalism, which is well-supported by numerous sources? It's fine to mention any statements she made on separatism (or her RNA association), which the rest of the article already does, but it's not well-supported enough to be in the intro. <b>[[User:Ohnoitsjamie|OhNo<font color="#D47C14">itsJamie</font>]] [[User talk:Ohnoitsjamie|<sup>Talk</sup>]]</b> 16:03, 19 May 2016 (UTC) |
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::::: This is the *only* book on Kochiyama. It was an authorised biography, written by a professor at UCSB, published by UMinnesota press. It should clearly be the default source, the backbone of a wikipedia article on Kochiyama. From wikipedia's policies: "Material such as an article, book, monograph, or research paper that has been vetted by the scholarly community is regarded as reliable, where the material has been published in reputable peer-reviewed sources or by well-regarded academic presses." "For information about academic topics, scholarly sources and high-quality non-scholarly sources are generally better than news reports." <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:NPalgan|NPalgan]] ([[User talk:NPalgan|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/NPalgan|contribs]]) 16:13, 19 May 2016 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> |
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:::::: I'm not casting doubt on the source; my issue is that a small subset of black nationalist thought (separatism) is being used to define her in the lede. Yes, it is reliably sourced that she supported some black separatist ideas ([https://books.google.com/books?id=SnF3hUgoIf0C&lpg=PA180&dq=%22Kochiyama%22%20separatism&pg=PA180#v=onepage&q=page%20180&f=false page 180 of this book]), but I still think "nationalist" as better in summarizing her position, as she wasn't strictly an advocate of separatism, nor did she explicitly identify as separatist. <b>[[User:Ohnoitsjamie|OhNo<font color="#D47C14">itsJamie</font>]] [[User talk:Ohnoitsjamie|<sup>Talk</sup>]]</b> 20:30, 19 May 2016 (UTC) |
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::::::: I think we've 'achieved disagreement'. Time for dispute resolution? [[User:NPalgan|NPalgan]] ([[User talk:NPalgan|talk]]) 21:32, 19 May 2016 (UTC) |
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:::::::: An [[WP:RFC|RFC]] might be a good idea, just to get a few other opinions besides our two. <b>[[User:Ohnoitsjamie|OhNo<font color="#D47C14">itsJamie</font>]] [[User talk:Ohnoitsjamie|<sup>Talk</sup>]]</b> 21:37, 19 May 2016 (UTC) |
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==Holding Malcolm X== |
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How valid is the statement that Yuri held Malcolm X as he died? There weren't any pictures or anything of someone cradling Malcolm X's head. |
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[[User:Paracite|Paracite]] 05:34, 21 February 2007 (UTC) |
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it's pretty well known... several eye witnesses (there were hundreds of people present, remember).<small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:167.88.201.100|167.88.201.100]] ([[User talk:167.88.201.100|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/167.88.201.100|contribs]]) 16:00, May 30, 2007</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> |
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Here is a picture of Yuri Kochiyama showing the picture of her cradling Malcolm's head. |
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http://www.insidebayarea.com/portlet/article/html/render_gallery.jsp?articleId=9312282&siteId=181&startImage=3 |
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This link doesn't work. When you click on it is says "gallery not found". <small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/173.51.145.103|173.51.145.103]] ([[User talk:173.51.145.103|talk]]) 08:24, 19 May 2016 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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You can also kind of see it in this picture as well (Yuri is kneeling towards the right) |
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http://www.malcolm-x.org/media/pic/mg51.jpg |
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Also: https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/140602-malcolmx.jpg?quality=75&strip=color&w=838 <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:SXibolet|SXibolet]] ([[User talk:SXibolet|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/SXibolet|contribs]]) 11:15, 19 May 2016 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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--[[Special:Contributions/75.170.47.205|75.170.47.205]] ([[User talk:75.170.47.205|talk]]) 01:13, 24 May 2008 (UTC) |
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== Vandalism == |
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It might be a good idea to lock this wiki to new edits due to constant vandalism. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2601:C2:C100:80:34EF:B6A3:31ED:5D40|2601:C2:C100:80:34EF:B6A3:31ED:5D40]] ([[User talk:2601:C2:C100:80:34EF:B6A3:31ED:5D40|talk]]) 11:32, 19 May 2016 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:I made a temporary semi-protection request. [[User:Ketone16|Ketone16]] ([[User talk:Ketone16|talk]]) 13:04, 19 May 2016 (UTC) |
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You may want to lock this page. Yuri Kochiyama's 95th birthday is being highlighted by Google and the wikipedia page has been vandalized. 5/19/2016 <small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/146.126.51.51|146.126.51.51]] ([[User talk:146.126.51.51|talk]]) 13:19, 19 May 2016 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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Related to above edit, someone has added "WTF?" at the end of the final section before additional links and references, where the subject is quoted regarding her opinions of Bin Laden and US terrorism. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/65.42.196.2|65.42.196.2]] ([[User talk:65.42.196.2|talk]]) 19:24, 19 May 2016 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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The "WTF" comment has been deleted. [[User:Szarka|Szarka]] ([[User talk:Szarka|talk]]) 14:10, 20 May 2016 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 19 May 2016 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Yuri Kochiyama|answered=D}} |
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<!-- Be sure to state UNAMBIGUOUSLY your suggested changes; editors who can edit the protected page need to know what to add or remove. Blank edit requests WILL be declined. --> |
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<!-- Begin request --> |
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So Basically a typical left wing loon. |
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[[Special:Contributions/174.140.127.12|174.140.127.12]] ([[User talk:174.140.127.12|talk]]) 14:37, 19 May 2016 (UTC) |
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Yes - a Left Wing loon which Google obviously supports. Supported black supremacy, communism, and anti-American terrorism. The fact that Google celebrates this individual is a shame, but then Google is also leftist. [[User:Kklsmith|Kklsmith]] ([[User talk:Kklsmith|talk]]) 15:01, 19 May 2016 (UTC) |
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::Declining edit request because you did not specify what changes you wanted to see made to the article. Please be specific. ~ ''[[User:ONUnicorn|<span style="color:#0cc">ONUnicorn</span>]]''<sup>([[User talk:ONUnicorn|Talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/ONUnicorn|Contribs]])</sup><small>[[WP:P&S|problem solving]]</small> 15:16, 19 May 2016 (UTC) |
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:::Actually not a typical left wing loon because even typical left wing loons didn't typically support Osama bin Laden. [[User:Motsebboh|Motsebboh]] ([[User talk:Motsebboh|talk]]) 17:00, 19 May 2016 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 19 May 2016 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Yuri Kochiyama|answered=yes}} |
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<!-- Be sure to state UNAMBIGUOUSLY your suggested changes; editors who can edit the protected page need to know what to add or remove. Blank edit requests WILL be declined. --> |
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Please delete the section "Views on Osama bin Laden and the War on Terrorism". |
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These words were obviously a calculated, malicious attempt to disparage Kochiyama on a day meant to celebrate her, and are creating a dangerous backlash on social media. The extraordinary number of changes made to this page throughout the night and this morning are evidence of this. |
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Yuri worked diligently all her life to build bridges and bring positive change. This section, which quotes Yuri in the later part of her life (after she began having mini strokes) is inflammatory and in this racially charged climate, inappropriate, dangerous, and not reflective of her body of work. |
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[[User:Ykap|Ykap]] ([[User talk:Ykap|talk]]) 17:26, 19 May 2016 (UTC) |
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:Sorry, Wikipedia is NOT censored. If Kochiyama were a fountain of positivity, while simultaneously admiring the likes of bin Laden and Castro, you shouldn't need to censor her words. Counter them with your examples of the positive change she made and your evidence that she didn't know what she was saying in 2003, some eleven years before her death. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/172.78.41.70|172.78.41.70]] ([[User talk:172.78.41.70|talk]]) 18:20, 19 May 2016 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:: I agree that those are extreme statements that deserve some attention in the article, but as there are no extensive quotes from statements she made during her productive years, the intent of their inclusion and emphasis is quite obvious. 2003 Might have been over 10 years before her death, but that would mean she was 82, and she was certainly no longer a public figure. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Nhorning|Nhorning]] ([[User talk:Nhorning|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Nhorning|contribs]]) 06:24, 20 May 2016 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:It is quite clear that you do not understand the [[Wikipedia:Five_pillars|rules and purpose]] of Wikipedia. Wikipedia does not "celebrate" biographical subjects, but simply neutrally describes their biographical information and views, as long as such information is properly documented with citations, presented in a neutral manner, and without undue weight on marginal aspects of the subject. If some details are embarassing in retrospect, that's really too bad. |
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:(In particular, I find your "justification" that she had suffered several strokes before enunciating such views to be a laughable rationalization. They only merit inclusion if you can find a verifiable source noting that she had some kind of personality change after these events causing her to spout bizarre views.) |
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:Now if want to argue that attention to her controversial points of view are taking up undue weight in this article, you might actually have a point. I think this is a natural result of Google shining a spotlight on a controversial subject like this. I think after the attention has passed, this article should be subject to some careful, judicious editing, aiming for an article that presents the totality of her views and actions (including the highly controversial ones) and is neither hagiography nor demonization of the Kochiyama. [[User:Iamcuriousblue|Iamcuriousblue]] ([[User talk:Iamcuriousblue|talk]]) 21:55, 19 May 2016 (UTC) |
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::Extensive quotes from interviews beyond her publicly active years are undue weight on marginal aspects of the subject. By your own standards, they can be included, but the article is no longer neutral if they are emphasized.[[User:Nhorning|Nhorning]] ([[User talk:Nhorning|talk]]) 06:33, 20 May 2016 (UTC) |
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:::I'm straight up not buying the argument that statements made during the 2000s were outside of her "publicly active years". A simple look at her biography or a search for videos including her show her to be a public figure well into the 2000s. |
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:::That said, this now-lengthy article contains only ''one paragraph'' on her activism during the 1960s, and most of that on fringey political groups she was part of. No mention of her community organizing activism starting in the mid-60s, which is how she became a public figure in the first place. That much certainly does need to be remedied. [[User:Iamcuriousblue|Iamcuriousblue]] ([[User talk:Iamcuriousblue|talk]]) 17:56, 20 May 2016 (UTC) |
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:If the quotes are, as you say, "inappropriate and dangerous," then all the more reason they should be presented in this context. Google has chosen, in a fairly short-sighted and ham-handed fashion, to deify this person; that deification is in fact the thing that is "inappropriate and dangerous." The quotes are correct, specific, and clearly on the record. For now, the quotes stay. Additionally, thank you [[User:Iamcuriousblue|Iamcuriousblue]] for your balanced analysis. --[[User:Johnwbyrd|Johnwbyrd]] ([[User talk:Johnwbyrd|talk]]) 04:05, 20 May 2016 (UTC) |
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==Black separatist== |
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I tagged the description of her as a "black separatist" in the lead because none of the sources used here actually describe her as such. Maybe she really was a "non-black black separatist" but then again, she doesn't appear to have ever described herself that way, nor has any source here actually labeled her as a "black separatist" or separatist of any kind. [[User:Laval|Laval]] ([[User talk:Laval|talk]]) 19:25, 19 May 2016 (UTC) |
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This issue of her being invited to join and/or joining a black separatist movement or organization ''does not'' automatically make her a black separatist. Without a reliable source actually making that argument or coming to that conclusion, it is [[WP:OR|original research]] on the part of anyone to label her as a "black separatist" when she never identified as such, nor labeled as such by reliable sources. [[User:Laval|Laval]] ([[User talk:Laval|talk]]) 19:28, 19 May 2016 (UTC) |
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I don't see your tag? Can you make sure you have done it [[User:Alexis Ivanov|Alexis Ivanov]] ([[User talk:Alexis Ivanov|talk]]) 02:37, 20 May 2016 (UTC) |
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:Thank you for the heads up. It appears that someone else removed it, for whatever reason, without bothering to address the fact that none of the sources actually claim her as a "non-black black separatist" or "non-black black nationalist". [[User:Laval|Laval]] ([[User talk:Laval|talk]]) 04:09, 20 May 2016 (UTC) |
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Whoever is attempting to push this "non-black black separatist/nationalist" -- the wording of which is extremely awkward, by the way -- may be conflating the support of non-black people for black separatist/nationalist movements, of which there have been many, with support for their separatist/nationalist goals. I've never come across any writer labeling them as "non-black black separatists". There are many Iranian politicians who support the Nation of Islam in various ways -- does that make them "non-black black separatists/nationalists"? [[User:Laval|Laval]] ([[User talk:Laval|talk]]) 04:14, 20 May 2016 (UTC) |
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: [[User:Laval]], [[User:Alexis Ivanov]]: please see [[Talk:Yuri_Kochiyama#Black_Liberation_Movement_.28Black_nationalism_vs_black_liberation_vs_black_separatism.29|this discussion above]] regarding the "separatist" vs "nationalist" debate. <b>[[User:Ohnoitsjamie|OhNo<font color="#D47C14">itsJamie</font>]] [[User talk:Ohnoitsjamie|<sup>Talk</sup>]]</b> 05:08, 20 May 2016 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 19 May 2016 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Yuri Kochiyama|answered=yes}} |
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<!-- Be sure to state UNAMBIGUOUSLY your suggested changes; editors who can edit the protected page need to know what to add or remove. Blank edit requests WILL be declined. --> |
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<!-- Begin request --> please remove the vandalism in the last sentence of the last paragraph. "WTF" is offensive and stupid |
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[[Special:Contributions/2605:E000:D5CD:7A00:B011:6833:9F9:3790|2605:E000:D5CD:7A00:B011:6833:9F9:3790]] ([[User talk:2605:E000:D5CD:7A00:B011:6833:9F9:3790|talk]]) 19:25, 19 May 2016 (UTC) |
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:This appears to have already been handled. ~ ''[[User:ONUnicorn|<span style="color:#0cc">ONUnicorn</span>]]''<sup>([[User talk:ONUnicorn|Talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/ONUnicorn|Contribs]])</sup><small>[[WP:P&S|problem solving]]</small> 22:19, 19 May 2016 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 19 May 2016 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Yuri Kochiyama|answered=yes}} |
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<!-- Be sure to state UNAMBIGUOUSLY your suggested changes; editors who can edit the protected page need to know what to add or remove. Blank edit requests WILL be declined. --> |
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The "WTF" at the end of the section on Osama Bin Laden should be deleted due to its biased intent. An anonymous editorial comment has no place in an academic article which simply explains the subject's philosophy. Thank you for your time. |
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[[User:Mercuryrules|Mercuryrules]] ([[User talk:Mercuryrules|talk]]) 19:28, 19 May 2016 (UTC) |
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:This appears to have already been handled. ~ ''[[User:ONUnicorn|<span style="color:#0cc">ONUnicorn</span>]]''<sup>([[User talk:ONUnicorn|Talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/ONUnicorn|Contribs]])</sup><small>[[WP:P&S|problem solving]]</small> 22:21, 19 May 2016 (UTC) |
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Yup. I got it. [[User:Szarka|Szarka]] ([[User talk:Szarka|talk]]) 04:16, 20 May 2016 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 19 May 2016 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Yuri Kochiyama|answered=no}} |
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<!-- Be sure to state UNAMBIGUOUSLY your suggested changes; editors who can edit the protected page need to know what to add or remove. Blank edit requests WILL be declined. --> |
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Please add after "Japanese American human rights activist" this language, "and a voice for Asian American empowerment." |
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Yuri was not known just for being a Japanese human rights activist and a non-black separatist. She was notable just for following the thoughts of other men like Malcolm X, Karl Marx or Mao Tse Tung. |
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For the summary to be accurate, it should reflect that she is a very notable and historic figure amongst Asian American communities and others as a leading and vocal activist championing Asian empowerment, specifically. Not sure why this is deleted. See the LA Times, <ref>http://www.latimes.com/local/obituaries/la-me-yuri-kochiyama-20140604-story.html</ref> |
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Also see the Smithsonian: "Yuri is real – and she is more than a footnote in the life of another man...She was a cornerstone in the Black Power and Asian American liberation' movements alike..." |
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see i<ref>http://smithsonianapa.org/yuri</ref> |
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[[Special:Contributions/71.174.19.207|71.174.19.207]] ([[User talk:71.174.19.207|talk]]) 00:04, 20 May 2016 (UTC) |
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{{reflist-talk}} |
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== Balanced Summary == |
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I propose the following language as a solution to the back-and-forth on how much weight to give Kochiyama's support for terrorists and violent revolutionaries: |
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* Yuri Kochiyama was a [[Japanese Americans|Japanese American]] political activist influenced by [[Marxism]], [[Maoism]], and the thoughts of [[Malcolm X]]. Her career combined advocacy for the civil rights of marginalized groups with support for violent revolutionaries, some of whom are widely-considered terrorists. |
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I think language something like this would strike the right balance. While her admiration for bin Laden is certainly the most provocative of her positions, her support for the Shining Path, Mao, the Castros, and a variety of other violent revolutionaries known for killing both political opponents and "civilians" shows that this is not an aberrant statement from one late phase of her life. |
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[[User:Szarka|Szarka]] ([[User talk:Szarka|talk]]) 16:55, 20 May 2016 (UTC) |
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The last few sections, "Later life and death" through to "Legacy", seem choppy or unpolished compared to the opening sections of the article. Perhaps adding more information and more attention to flow could help the article read more consistently. Also, some of the information under "Legacy" could benefit from dates (most of it already does except for a few) to provide a more enunciated timeline. [[User:AmberMorgan010|AmberMorgan010]] ([[User talk:AmberMorgan010|talk]]) 22:32, 5 February 2024 (UTC) |
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: '''OPPOSE''' This summary still is largely whitewashing. The only people who do not consider Osama bin Laden a terrorist were his own supporters. I would drop "widely" from the description. [[User:Ergzay|Ergzay]] ([[User talk:Ergzay|talk]]) 17:31, 20 May 2016 (UTC) |
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==Wiki Education assignment: Feminist Philosophy== |
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:'''Opposed''' The lead to [[Osama bin Laden]] doesn't refer to him as a terrorist, but you want to refer to him here as one of several who are "widely-considered [sic] terrorists"? No way. — [[User:MShabazz|MShabazz]] <sup>[[User talk:Malik Shabazz|Talk]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/MShabazz|Stalk]]</sub> 17:53, 20 May 2016 (UTC) |
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{{dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment | course = Wikipedia:Wiki_Ed/Moravian_University/Feminist_Philosophy_(Spring_2024) | assignments = [[User:AmberMorgan010|AmberMorgan010]], [[User:Mexquititlaa|Mexquititlaa]] | start_date = 2024-01-17 | end_date = 2024-05-02 }} |
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<span class="wikied-assignment" style="font-size:85%;">— Assignment last updated by [[User:Shaykip|Shaykip]] ([[User talk:Shaykip|talk]]) 22:13, 13 February 2024 (UTC)</span> |
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:: It does actually. "Bin Laden was on the American Federal Bureau of Investigation's (FBI) lists of Ten Most Wanted Fugitives and Most Wanted Terrorists for his involvement in the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings." [[User:Ergzay|Ergzay]] ([[User talk:Ergzay|talk]]) 17:58, 20 May 2016 (UTC) |
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== Planned improvements == |
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*'''Oppose'''. Such a summary really isn't balanced, but places an undue emphasis on the controversial aspects of her career. I am on record as not wanting this article to be bowdlerized of such information, but nevertheless, the article needs to be balanced, place different aspects of her career with due weight, and strictly adhere to the principle of [[WP:NPOV]], something I see some on both sides of the debate about this article losing sight of. I suggest having a look at the existing articles on [[Lynne Stewart]] and [[Angela Davis]] for examples of articles that cover controversial figures in a neutral, balanced, and full manner. [[User:Iamcuriousblue|Iamcuriousblue]] ([[User talk:Iamcuriousblue|talk]]) 18:08, 20 May 2016 (UTC) |
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::One other point "...influenced by Marxism, Maoism..." is redundant. Maoism is a subset of Marxism. [[User:Iamcuriousblue|Iamcuriousblue]] ([[User talk:Iamcuriousblue|talk]]) 18:10, 20 May 2016 (UTC) |
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Hello! I am planning on improving this article to hopefully bring it up to GA status as part of [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Green|WikiProject Women in Green]]. My main goals are to expand the article and improve its sources. It seems like almost all of the academic scholarship on Kochiyama was written by Diane C. Fujino, so she'll be showing up quite a bit, but I'll also try to include other sources where relevant. I will be working in my [[User:Spookyaki/sandbox|sandbox]], so there will probably be a huge edit coming through once I'm done. You can check on my progress there. I am a fairly new editor, so I apologize if I make mistakes. If there are issues with my edits, please let me know and we can discuss it here. Thank you! [[User:Spookyaki|Spookyaki]] ([[User talk:Spookyaki|talk]]) 03:19, 2 November 2024 (UTC) |
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:: Given that she supported a wide variety of dictators, terrorists, and other violent individuals over several decades, it seems very much like giving "due weight" to briefly mention this consistent, enduring feature of her outlook somewhere above the fold. Perhaps a better approach would be to point to the controversy over the way she was honored recently? I hope that someone else will chime in with suggested language. (I'd agree, BTW, that "influenced by Marxism, Maoism, and the thoughts of Malcolm X" is awkward; just trying to preserve as much existing language as possible.) [[User:Szarka|Szarka]] ([[User talk:Szarka|talk]]) 18:25, 20 May 2016 (UTC) |
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:Okay, about to transfer it over. Obviously there will be a lot of major changes. A few quick notes: |
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== Internment camp vs Concentration camp == |
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:'''Kochiyama's "Maoism"''' |
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:The original article's lead says that Kochiyama held Maoist beliefs. I don't think this is strongly supported by the sources. She was affiliated with various Maoist organizations, some (RAM) more closely than others (RCP, Shining Path) and generally spoke in neutral to positive terms about Mao the person. However, at no point did I see her personal philosophy described as Maoist. Fujino offers the following analysis of Kochiyama's views on Marxism: |
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:{{blockquote|While refraining from using Marxist language, Yuri believes that many in oppressed U.S. communities support the major premises underlying socialist theory, namely, distributing resources equitably among the people, valuing human rights instead of profits, developing a planned economy so that the needs of the populace could be met, providing nonexploitative jobs, and transferring power from the capitalist class to the working class. While Malcolm X and Robert Williams seemed to adopt some generic form of socialism, it is likely that they were also critical of Marxism for privileging class over race. In following Malcolm X, Williams, and the RNA, Yuri subscribes to the school of revolutionary nationalism that emphasizes race as the primary form of oppression. By contrast, other revolutionary nationalists, particularly those promoting scientific socialism or Marxist-Leninist-Maoist thought, view class exploitation as the main source of oppression, even as they recognize the links between race and class. This theoretical contrast underlies differences in ideology and practice, and there have been major struggles within the revolutionary Blacl movement and among radicals of various backgrounds over the relative importance of class and race. (Fujino 2005, p. 189)}} |
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:This seem to contradict or at least complicate the idea that Kochiyama was a Maoist, so I have elected to not discuss it in the article. |
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:'''Kochiyama's "Islamic beliefs"''' |
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:Also mentioned in the lead. This one is more strongly supported. Kochiyama did convert to Islam in 1971, but she deconverted in 1975 (which was not mentioned in the original article). While it seems like she had great respect for Islam, I don't know that it's accurate to her say that her civil rights activism was influenced by her "Islamic beliefs." Their importance was overstated in the original article, which I have tried to correct. |
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:'''Shining Path''' |
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:I debated on whether or not to call Shining Path a terrorist organization. That is what they are called in Oxford Bibliographies, and they are [[List of designated terrorist groups|designated as a terrorist organization]] by the European Union, Canada, Japan, New Zealand, United States, United Kingdom, and Peru. Subjectively, I think that their activities certainly resemble terrorism. However, they are not explicitly listed as a terrorist organization on their Wikipedia page. It seems probably relevant to mention if they are a terrorist organization, but it's also obviously a loaded term. I don't know. Guidance on this would be appreciated. |
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:'''Media Appearances Section''' |
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:This section was insufficiently cited and didn't really seem to be particularly necessary for the article, so I removed it.It was just a relatively short list of movies that Kochiyama had appeared in. A lot of them are now mentioned in the "Legacy" section with stronger citations. |
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:'''Further reading and external links''' |
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:I made some adjustments to the "further reading" and "external links' sections, collapsing them into a single section and changing out some of the links for more relevant ones. |
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:'''AllMusic Citation''' |
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:I recognize that AllMusic is considered to be a "no consensus" source ([[WP:ALLMUSIC]]), and that there are varying views on its reliability, though it is considered a "generally reliable source" by [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums/Sources|WikiProject Albums]]. My primary reason for using it was to confirm that the song "Yuri Kochiyama" was on the album Cinemetropolis. The song is discussed elsewhere, but the only semi-reliable source the that said the album it was on (and the year it was released, so I could fit it chronologically) was AllMusic. I can personally confirm that the song does appear on the Spotify release of the album. If the source is problematic, let me know. I will probably just end up removing the entire section about the Blue Scholars if so, unless there are any other suggestions. |
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:'''Overreliance on Fujino?''' |
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:Again, almost all of the scholarly material on Kochiyama was written by Diane C. Fujino in one way or another. I tried to vary it up as much as I could, but as it stands, would the reliance on Fujino be a problem for a Good Article Review? Would appreciate people's thoughts. |
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:I think I will pass this off to a peer review before GAR, so expect that soon. Thanks everyone! [[User:Spookyaki|Spookyaki]] ([[User talk:Spookyaki|talk]]) 21:05, 6 November 2024 (UTC) |
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::Actually, might just directly submit for GA review. [[User:Spookyaki|Spookyaki]] ([[User talk:Spookyaki|talk]]) 17:23, 13 November 2024 (UTC) |
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{{Talk:Yuri Kochiyama/GA1}} |
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==Did you know nomination== |
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[[Internment of Japanese Americans]] uses the term "concentration camps". Perhaps this language should also be used here in the Early Life section. |
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{{Template:Did you know nominations/Yuri Kochiyama}} |
Latest revision as of 18:05, 20 December 2024
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Proposed Edits
[edit]I notice that the existing article lacks mention of numerous organizations and movements that Kochiyama was a part of in a meaningful way – the Young Lords Party, Harlem Community for Self Defense, New York Justice for Vincent Chin Coalition, the Japanese American Redress and Reparations Movement, and the International Political Prisoner Rights Movement. The lead section mentions her anti-war stance and activism, yet the actual article does not describe her involvement in this. She was actually responsible for initiating a meeting between Malcolm X and the Hiroshima Nagasaki Peace Study Mission from Japan. I would hope to research her involvement in these organizations and her anti-war action, and create robust, well-cited edits to her article page.Vanuliarya (talk) 01:01, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
The current Wikipedia article of Yuri Kochiyama could benefit from more depth on the variety of activism that Kochiyama engaged in. The article mentions her involvement in multiple causes, including black separatism, the anti-war movement, reparations for Japanese-American internees, and the rights of political prisoners, yet only goes into some of these topics in the article itself. Furthermore, the two main categories of the article, “Activist life” and “Advocacy” are not substantial in length and do not cover the breadth of work done in these areas. Navenp (talk) 05:54, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
- Happy to add if you provide me links, thanks--Jacobin 357 (talk) 19:26, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
The last few sections, "Later life and death" through to "Legacy", seem choppy or unpolished compared to the opening sections of the article. Perhaps adding more information and more attention to flow could help the article read more consistently. Also, some of the information under "Legacy" could benefit from dates (most of it already does except for a few) to provide a more enunciated timeline. AmberMorgan010 (talk) 22:32, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
Wiki Education assignment: Feminist Philosophy
[edit]This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 17 January 2024 and 2 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): AmberMorgan010, Mexquititlaa (article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Shaykip (talk) 22:13, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
Planned improvements
[edit]Hello! I am planning on improving this article to hopefully bring it up to GA status as part of WikiProject Women in Green. My main goals are to expand the article and improve its sources. It seems like almost all of the academic scholarship on Kochiyama was written by Diane C. Fujino, so she'll be showing up quite a bit, but I'll also try to include other sources where relevant. I will be working in my sandbox, so there will probably be a huge edit coming through once I'm done. You can check on my progress there. I am a fairly new editor, so I apologize if I make mistakes. If there are issues with my edits, please let me know and we can discuss it here. Thank you! Spookyaki (talk) 03:19, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, about to transfer it over. Obviously there will be a lot of major changes. A few quick notes:
- Kochiyama's "Maoism"
- The original article's lead says that Kochiyama held Maoist beliefs. I don't think this is strongly supported by the sources. She was affiliated with various Maoist organizations, some (RAM) more closely than others (RCP, Shining Path) and generally spoke in neutral to positive terms about Mao the person. However, at no point did I see her personal philosophy described as Maoist. Fujino offers the following analysis of Kochiyama's views on Marxism:
While refraining from using Marxist language, Yuri believes that many in oppressed U.S. communities support the major premises underlying socialist theory, namely, distributing resources equitably among the people, valuing human rights instead of profits, developing a planned economy so that the needs of the populace could be met, providing nonexploitative jobs, and transferring power from the capitalist class to the working class. While Malcolm X and Robert Williams seemed to adopt some generic form of socialism, it is likely that they were also critical of Marxism for privileging class over race. In following Malcolm X, Williams, and the RNA, Yuri subscribes to the school of revolutionary nationalism that emphasizes race as the primary form of oppression. By contrast, other revolutionary nationalists, particularly those promoting scientific socialism or Marxist-Leninist-Maoist thought, view class exploitation as the main source of oppression, even as they recognize the links between race and class. This theoretical contrast underlies differences in ideology and practice, and there have been major struggles within the revolutionary Blacl movement and among radicals of various backgrounds over the relative importance of class and race. (Fujino 2005, p. 189)
- This seem to contradict or at least complicate the idea that Kochiyama was a Maoist, so I have elected to not discuss it in the article.
- Kochiyama's "Islamic beliefs"
- Also mentioned in the lead. This one is more strongly supported. Kochiyama did convert to Islam in 1971, but she deconverted in 1975 (which was not mentioned in the original article). While it seems like she had great respect for Islam, I don't know that it's accurate to her say that her civil rights activism was influenced by her "Islamic beliefs." Their importance was overstated in the original article, which I have tried to correct.
- Shining Path
- I debated on whether or not to call Shining Path a terrorist organization. That is what they are called in Oxford Bibliographies, and they are designated as a terrorist organization by the European Union, Canada, Japan, New Zealand, United States, United Kingdom, and Peru. Subjectively, I think that their activities certainly resemble terrorism. However, they are not explicitly listed as a terrorist organization on their Wikipedia page. It seems probably relevant to mention if they are a terrorist organization, but it's also obviously a loaded term. I don't know. Guidance on this would be appreciated.
- Media Appearances Section
- This section was insufficiently cited and didn't really seem to be particularly necessary for the article, so I removed it.It was just a relatively short list of movies that Kochiyama had appeared in. A lot of them are now mentioned in the "Legacy" section with stronger citations.
- Further reading and external links
- I made some adjustments to the "further reading" and "external links' sections, collapsing them into a single section and changing out some of the links for more relevant ones.
- AllMusic Citation
- I recognize that AllMusic is considered to be a "no consensus" source (WP:ALLMUSIC), and that there are varying views on its reliability, though it is considered a "generally reliable source" by WikiProject Albums. My primary reason for using it was to confirm that the song "Yuri Kochiyama" was on the album Cinemetropolis. The song is discussed elsewhere, but the only semi-reliable source the that said the album it was on (and the year it was released, so I could fit it chronologically) was AllMusic. I can personally confirm that the song does appear on the Spotify release of the album. If the source is problematic, let me know. I will probably just end up removing the entire section about the Blue Scholars if so, unless there are any other suggestions.
- Overreliance on Fujino?
- Again, almost all of the scholarly material on Kochiyama was written by Diane C. Fujino in one way or another. I tried to vary it up as much as I could, but as it stands, would the reliance on Fujino be a problem for a Good Article Review? Would appreciate people's thoughts.
- I think I will pass this off to a peer review before GAR, so expect that soon. Thanks everyone! Spookyaki (talk) 21:05, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
- Actually, might just directly submit for GA review. Spookyaki (talk) 17:23, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
GA Review
[edit]GA toolbox |
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Reviewing |
- This review is transcluded from Talk:Yuri Kochiyama/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Nominator: Spookyaki (talk · contribs) 17:25, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
Reviewer: Borsoka (talk · contribs) 15:10, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
- Is it well written?
- A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:
- B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:
- A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:
- Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?
- A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:
- B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):
- C. It contains no original research:
- D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:
- A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:
- Is it broad in its coverage?
- A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:
- B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):
- A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:
- Is it neutral?
- It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:
- It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:
- Is it stable?
- It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:
- It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:
- Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?
- A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:
- B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
- A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:
- Overall:
- Pass or Fail:
- Pass or Fail:
Comments
...Kochiyama's father was the son of a retired samurai who arrived in the United States in 1907... Rephrase to make it clear that Kochiyama's father and not her grandfather came to the USA in 1907....before eventually... Is "eventually" necessary?- Removed. Spookyaki (talk) 16:38, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
Her mother, meanwhile, was... Delete meanwhile.She had two siblings: Arthur Masao, an older brother, and Peter Minoru, her twin. I would delete the sentence.She was raised Christian... Do we know the denomination?- That's a bit complicated. She attended an Episcopal church with her parents, but attended a Christian Science Church and a Presbyterian Church of her own volition. Spookyaki (talk) 16:38, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
I would make it clear in the text: "attending the Episcopal St. Mary's Church ... several nearby Christian Science and Presbyterian churches..."
- That's a bit complicated. She attended an Episcopal church with her parents, but attended a Christian Science Church and a Presbyterian Church of her own volition. Spookyaki (talk) 16:38, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
... in some aspects of Christianity...criticized aspects of the religion... Rephrase to avoid repetition. I think the sentence could be shortened radically.- Shortened a little and split. Spookyaki (talk) 16:38, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Which high school did she attend?
an Pedro High School apparently. Updated to include.Spookyaki (talk) 16:38, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
...the Kochiyama's family's...the discovery photographs... Rephrase.- Fixed. Spookyaki (talk) 16:38, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
Soon after, the Kochiyama's family's home was ransacked and Kochiyama's father was detained by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and taken to the Terminal Island federal penitentiary due to his friendship with prominent Japanese figures, including Ambassador Kichisaburō Nomura, and the discovery photographs of Japanese naval ships in the Kochiyama family home. Split the sentence at least into two.- Tried splitting it. Honestly, not really satisfied with it, but if you have any suggestions, let me know. Spookyaki (talk) 16:38, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
In accordance with Executive Order 9066... Shorten to "the executive order/Roosevelt's order/the order..."...a letter-writing campaign to Nisei soldiers... Some explanation and a link?- Sorry, of which aspect? Of the letter-writing campaign? Of the word "Nisei"? Of the Nisei soldiers? Spookyaki (talk) 16:38, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
Yes, all.Borsoka (talk) 05:57, 5 December 2024 (UTC)- While there, Kochiyama worked as a nurse's aide and helped to organize a group of Sunday school students called "the Crusaders". Despite being imprisoned, many Nisei men joined the United Stoates military as part of the 442nd Infantry Regiment. Because many of the Crusaders had relatives who had joined the military, they initiated a letter-writing campaign, first covering six soldiers but expanding to include roughly 3,000. Branches of the Crusaders were established at the relocation centers at Heart Mountain, Poston, Rohwer, and Topaz. — How is this? Should there be an explanatory note about the word "Nisei" or is the link sufficient? Spookyaki (talk) 16:30, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
I would delete the last sentence about the Crusaders' branches. I would rather explain the term "Nisei" in the main text (in brackets).
- While there, Kochiyama worked as a nurse's aide and helped to organize a group of Sunday school students called "the Crusaders". Despite being imprisoned, many Nisei men joined the United Stoates military as part of the 442nd Infantry Regiment. Because many of the Crusaders had relatives who had joined the military, they initiated a letter-writing campaign, first covering six soldiers but expanding to include roughly 3,000. Branches of the Crusaders were established at the relocation centers at Heart Mountain, Poston, Rohwer, and Topaz. — How is this? Should there be an explanatory note about the word "Nisei" or is the link sufficient? Spookyaki (talk) 16:30, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
- Sorry, of which aspect? Of the letter-writing campaign? Of the word "Nisei"? Of the Nisei soldiers? Spookyaki (talk) 16:38, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
After seven months at the Santa Anita Assembly Center, the family was then sent to the Jerome War Relocation Center in Arkansas, where they lived for the next two years. Shorten.- Tried. Spookyaki (talk) 16:38, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
Explain and link USO when it is first mentioned in the main text.Borsoka (talk) 15:39, 4 December 2024 (UTC)Introduce Jawaharlal Nehru.Explain and link CORE, OAAU, RAM, RNA, and AAA also in the main text when they are first mentioned.- I think done, if I understand what you're saying correctly. Does CORE require more explanation? Spookyaki (talk) 04:34, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
...union hiring practices... I do not understand.- The construction crew was union, and the union refused to admit Black and Puerto Rican workers. It's a bit hard to explain without going off the source. I'll try. Is this alright? The Medical Center was being constructed by laborers from the building trade unions, which were all-white at the time. The purpose of the protests was to oppose the racially discriminatory admission policies of the union at the construction site. Spookyaki (talk) 04:34, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- Link and introduce Malcolm X when he is first mentioned in the main text.
- Done.
- I do not find.
Malcolm invited Kochiyama to meet with him at his office to discuss his stance on integration, but was unable to do so initially due to his conflict with Nation of Islam (NOI) leader Elijah Muhammad. I do not understand.- I made some adjustments: She initiated a conversation with him, expressing admiration for his work but criticizing his "harsh stance on integration". Malcolm invited Kochiyama to meet with him at his office to discuss his stance on integration further, but was unable to do so initially due to fears for his personal safety arising from his public conflict with Nation of Islam (NOI) leader Elijah Muhammad. Do you need me to go into detail about the Elijah Muhammad stuff? In an earlier draft of the article, I wrote up a bit of explanation, but it ended up being extremely complicated and not really relevant to the article, so I thought a link would be sufficient. Spookyaki (talk) 04:34, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
I would link Racism against African Americans to "the racism".- Done.
...present for Malcolm's assassination... For?- True. I guess that's not why she was there. Changed to "at". Spookyaki (talk) 04:34, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
She attended the rally with her son Billy, who was sixteen at the time. Is this necessary?- Removed. Spookyaki (talk) 04:34, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
...whose tents... Tents?- Oops, tenets. Fixed. Spookyaki (talk) 04:34, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Link imam.She hid her conversion from most of her family with the exception of her daughter Aichi. Do we know why?- Quoted in Heartbeat of a Struggle, she says that "I didn’t think they’d be interested, and I have to say, I was a little afraid to bring it up because I didn’t think they’d understand. Besides, everyone in our house was so busy, we didn’t talk about things in detail. They thought I was seeing political activists in prison as I had done for years, but I never told them about my becoming a Muslim. I think Aichi was the only one I told—she was curious." I changed the sentence to Worrying about how her family would react, she hid her conversion from her husband and children, only discussing it with her daughter Aichi. Does that seem alright? Spookyaki (talk) 04:34, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
She also deconverted from Islam in 1975. Do we know why?- Not really sure, to be honest. Fujino says "Following Billy’s death, Yuri reduced her activities to devote more time to her family. But even as she ended her Muslim practice in 1975, she found herself caught in the urgency of other issues." If I had to guess, it was probably related to Billy's death and her withdrawal from activism, but that's just personal speculation. Spookyaki (talk) 04:34, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Link soup kitchen....Aichi's common-law husband, Alkamal Duncan, died of sickle cell anemia and... Is this necessary? If yes, rephrase the whole sentence because now it implies a connection between Duncan's death and Kochiyama's loss of her position.- Honestly, not really necessary. There is no connection. I just removed it. Spookyaki (talk) 04:34, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
However, after being given "reading materials" by RCP member Phil Farnham to "become ‘educated’ on the real situation in Peru", she "came to completely support the revolution [there]". Name the source of the quote in the text.Borsoka (talk) 03:33, 6 December 2024 (UTC)- Changed to However, according to Kochiyama, after being given "reading materials" by RCP member Phil Farnham to "become ‘educated’ on the real situation in Peru", she "came to completely support the revolution [there]". Spookyaki (talk) 04:34, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Image review
I found all images properly licenced and relevant. Borsoka (talk) 03:37, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Source review
- Reliable sources (mainly newspapers, but also encyclopedia articles and books) are cited.
Is Ishii (2022) a reliable source?- References 1 and 6 are verified.
- Would you quote texts (here on the review page) verifying references 14, 27, 42, 53, 56, and 93? Borsoka (talk) 05:35, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
- Regarding Ishii, I think so. I was using WP:NEWSORG as guidance there: "Otherwise reliable news sources—for example, the website of a major news organization—that publish in a blog-style format for some or all of their content may be as reliable as if published in standard news article format." You could argue that he maybe verges on WP:PRIMARY, since he seems to run the committee now.
- [14] The Jerome War Relocation Center closed on June 30, 1944... — "Date Closed: June 30, 1944" (Niiya)
- What about this part of the sentence: "...and Yuri's family returned to San Pedro in 1945"? I do not find its verification in the cited source.
- Covered by [15], a sentence down. "When the war ended in 1945, Yuri’s family decided to return to their home in San Pedro, California. By then, Jerome had already closed and the remaining internees, including her mother, had been transferred to the camp in Rohwer. So Yuri went there to accompany her family back to California." (Fujino, p. 76)
[27]...a political advocacy organization created by Malcolm to further the civil rights movement... — "That same month of March 1964, Malcolm began planning a second group, the Organization of Afro-American Unity (OAAU) which would allow him and his followers to engage in activism and enter the civil rights arena in ways that the NOI, frustratingly, had not allowed." (Payne & Payne, p. 666-667)[42]Then on the weekend... — "Then on the weekend, at least every other weekend, we’d visit the political prisoners. Everybody went according to if they had the money because it costs money to go to a prison. So each person went when they could. I mean everybody has their whole life and things they have to do at home. But I’ll tell you, we were busy during this time. Every week, more brothers and sisters would be arrested. We were working on scores of cases at the same time—trying to keep up with visiting, writing, attending court hearings. If I could show you all the leaflets we made, you’d get an idea of how expansive the work was." (Fujino, p. 204)
- Subsequently, after the arrest of the members of RAM, she organized a fundraising event on their behalf so that they could meet their $200,000 bond. — "Yuri wrote a lengthy article on the organizing campaign for the Queens 17 in the North Star that year. The group Friends of the 17, which included Yuri, was busy publicizing the event through articles and appeal letters in numerous Movement publications, raising funds to pay for the $200,000 bail bond." (Fujino, p. 200)
- She also corresponded with imprisoned members of the Black Panther Party (BPP); acted as a point of contact for many political prisoners affiliated with the RNA; and advocated on behalf of the Harlem Six, Martin Sostre... and various other imprisoned political activists. — "To respond to the arrests of many of their comrades, Yuri and others in New York, including newly released Panther 21 defendants, formed the National Committee to Defend Political Prisoners (NCDPP). Yuri was regarded as one of its most consistent members. 'Yuri, out of all of us, was in touch with prisoners and supporters the most,' observed NCDPP member Nyisha Shakur. 'People would call her relentlessly, just all the time... She was seemingly writing and visiting most of the political prisoners and really staying on top of it.' 'Yuri diligently wrote, sent information, made sure we were kept up-to-date about different issues,' recounted Ahmed Obafemi about his prison time in the mid-1970s. 'Yuri communicated with everybody. She was... the central figure,' he concluded.
- Through the NCDPP, and with many of its members before its establishment, Yuri defended numerous political prisoner cases in the late 1960s and early 1970s. She worked on the RNA 11, Harlem 6, Harlem 5, Tombs 7, Rap Brown 4, Carlos Feliciano, Martin Sostre, New Haven 3, Puerto Rican independentistas, and numerous Black Panther Party and Black Liberation Army cases." (Fujino, p. 203)
- Further discussion of Kochiyama's role as a point of contact for the RNA is in [46], and discussion of her advocacy for Mutulu Shakur in in [45].
- [53] ...Lolita Lebrón, a Puerto Rican nationalist who had been arrested in 1954 after shooting at a group of United States Representatives alongside Rafael Cancel Miranda, Andres Figueroa Cordero, and Irvin Flores... — "The second notable attack occurred on March 1, 1954, when four members of the Nationalist Party shot at members of the U.S. House of Representatives. The attack was led by Lolita Lebron, who shouted, 'Viva Puerto Rico Libre' before she and her associates Rafael Cancel Miranda, Andres Figueroa Cordero, and Irving Flores Rodriguez opened fire on the assembled congressmen." (Caban, p. 500)
- What about this part of the sentence: "As part of her work with political prisoners, Kochiyama met Lolita Lebrón..."?
- Actually misread the source here, but it was supposed to be covered by [54], at the end of the blockquote. It seems like they corresponded but did not actually meet:
Lolita Lebron, for example, had lost a son and a daughter under suspicious circumstances while in prison. Knowing this, Yuri gained solace and strength from these words from Lebron in prison: "Receive my profoundest condolescence. Your son liveth in the infinite love and glorious happiness of our Creator. ... I understand and participate in your pain. I have a son in Heaven. He died on account of the struggle. Imperialism killed him. He was a little boy who said when he becomes a grown man, he would build a house for his mother. He built it: It is a house upon the Rock. I embrace you in these difficult days—courageous as you are and beautiful!” Yuri herself observed: “I don’t know what I would’ve done if I didn’t have the Movement. I feel the Movement kept me going and I’m grateful for that. (Fujino, p. 224)
- Adjusted for accuracy.
- Actually misread the source here, but it was supposed to be covered by [54], at the end of the blockquote. It seems like they corresponded but did not actually meet:
- In 1979, President Jimmy Carter commuted the sentences of Lebrón, Flores, and Cancel and posthumously granted clemency to Figueroa, who had died of cancer in 1978. — "In 1979, President Jimmy Carter commuted the sentences of Lolita Lebron, Irving Flores, and Rafael Cancel Miranda after they had served twenty-five years in prison. Andres Figueroa Cordero was granted clemency posthumously. He had died of cancer in March 1978 after having been released from prison because of his terminal illness." (Caban, p. 500)
- [56] Yuri also founded the Day of Remembrance Committee in New York to commemorate the day President Franklin D. Roosevelt authorized Executive Order 9066. — "...Yuri also stood up for her own, fighting for Japanese American redress and reparations by co-founding Concerned Japanese Americans and the New York Day of Remembrance Committee." (Ishii)
- Not fully verified: she is a co-founder, according to the cited text, and the cited source does not refer to Executive Order 9066.
- Yeah, not sure what I was thinking there. I think I will just delete that sentence.
[93]In 1993, Rea Tajiri and Pat Saunders produced a documentary about her life entitled Yuri Kochiyama: Passion for Justice. She also featured in the documentaries My America...or Honk if You Love Buddha, directed by Renee Tajima-Peña... and When Mountains Take Wing, directed by C.A. Griffith and H.L.T. Quan. Several biographies were also written about her, including 1998's Yuri: The Life and Times of Yuri Kochiyama by Japanese journalist Mayumi Nakazawa and 2005's Heartbeat of Struggle: The Revolutionary Life of Yuri Kochiyama by Diane C. Fujino. — "Her life is featured in the Japanese-language book 'Yuri: The Life and Times of Yuri Kochiyama' (1998) by Mayumi Nakazawa; her memoirs, 'Passing It On' (2004), edited by Marjorie Lee, Akemi Kochiyama-Sardinha and Audee Kochiyama-Holman; her biography, 'Heartbeat of Struggle: The Revolutionary Life of Yuri Kochiyama' (2005); and two documentaries, 'Yuri Kochiyama: Passion for Justice' (1993) by Pat Saunders and Rea Tajiri and 'Mountains that Take Wing: Angela Davis and Yuri Kochiyama — A Conversation on Life, Struggles and Liberation' (2009) by C.A. Griffith and H.L.T. Quan. She and her husband also appeared in Renee Tajima-Pena’s 1997 documentary 'My America … or Honk If You Love Buddha.'" (Rafu Shimpo)
- All Power to the People is mentioned in [92].
- Spookyaki (talk) 06:42, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
@Spookyaki: When do you think you can address the pending issues? Borsoka (talk) 02:41, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
- Oh, sorry. I didn't see that you had responded. Probably today or tomorrow. Spookyaki (talk) 03:22, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
- Done. Spookyaki (talk) 03:45, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
My all concerns were addressed so I pass the article. I always love reading nicely written articles about minor actors in world history. Thank you for completing it. Borsoka (talk) 03:40, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
Did you know nomination
[edit]- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by SL93 talk 22:04, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
... that Japanese-American activist Yuri Kochiyama converted to Sunni Islam from 1971 to 1975?
ALT0: ... that Japanese-American activist Yuri Kochiyama converted to Islam in 1971?
- Source: "Malcolm X’s influence on Yuri extended beyond the political, and from 1971 to 1975, she practiced Sunni Islam." (Fujjino 2005, p. 209)
- Reviewed:
- Comment: First DYK, sorry if the formatting is wrong! I tried to follow the guidelines as best I could.
Spookyaki (talk) 18:05, 20 December 2024 (UTC).
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
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Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
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QPQ: None required. |
- Article is new enough (promoted to GA on 18 December), long enough, sourced, neutral, and free of copyright violations. QPQ not required. The hook is cited and interesting. I'm not sure about the wording of the hook. "Sunni Islam" seems overly specific, its like specifying someone converted to Protestant Christianity rather than just Christianity. Additionally, I don't think "conversion" is a long process, so she didn't convert from 1971 to 1975; She converted in 1971, and practiced the religion until 1975. (I might be wrong in this definition of "conversion" and if so, please let me know) Just these couple of minor pedantic issues and it would be good to go. :) AmateurHi$torian (talk) 21:49, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- No, you're right, the original use of "converted" was a bit imprecise. How does it look now? Spookyaki (talk) 22:50, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- The new hook is good to go. If the part about her deconversion is also to be included, it could be worded as - ALT1:"... that Japanese-American activist Yuri Kochiyama practiced Islam between 1971 and 1975?" and ALT2:"...that Japanese-American activist Yuri Kochiyama converted to Islam in 1971, and practiced it until 1975?". -AmateurHi$torian (talk) 03:43, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- I think Alt0 or Alt2 are good. Maybe Alt2 if I had to pick. Thanks! Spookyaki (talk) 06:42, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- The new hook is good to go. If the part about her deconversion is also to be included, it could be worded as - ALT1:"... that Japanese-American activist Yuri Kochiyama practiced Islam between 1971 and 1975?" and ALT2:"...that Japanese-American activist Yuri Kochiyama converted to Islam in 1971, and practiced it until 1975?". -AmateurHi$torian (talk) 03:43, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- No, you're right, the original use of "converted" was a bit imprecise. How does it look now? Spookyaki (talk) 22:50, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
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