Talk:Lebanon: Difference between revisions
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<b> TIME TO ARCHIVE DISCUSSION PAGE?</b> Hey guys, I want to help clean up the article. We need a good discussion page to help us though... I suggest we archive a lot of this discussion because it has become too big to be useful.... [[User:Rm uk|Rm uk]] 05:34, 27 August 2006 (UTC) |
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For discussions prior to 1 August please refer to [[Talk:Lebanon/Archive1]]. Also: don't forget to sign your comments with four tildes, this will produce your name, and the date. [[User:MichaelBillington|MichaelBillington]] 09:21, 1 August 2006 (UTC) |
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{{Notice|'''A version of [[Lebanon]] exists at <s>[[Lebanon/Temp]]</s> → [[Talk:Lebanon/temp]]. [[WP:POV fork]] states that no Temp pages should exist in main [[wikipedia:namespace|namespace]] (see also: [[Wikipedia:Subpages]]). The [[Lebanon/Temp]] article has been nominated for Deletion. Please feel free to contribute to the [[Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Lebanon/Temp|discussion]].'''}} |
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"By early 1976, the war was going poorly for the Maronites BLA!!, and Syria sent 40,000 troops into the country to prevent them from being overrun; that Baathist Syrians were fighting against Palestinian forces was and remains ironic.":Why did the Baathists back the Maronites? Why is this ironic? |
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::Syria originally backed the Maronites simply because they did not want Israel to get involved, which they feared might happen in the wake of a Maronite defeat. It's ironic, because the Maronites later turned to Israel anyway (sort of), and fought against the Syrian military from 1978 onwards. [[User:Davidcannon|David Cannon]] 22:46, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC) |
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== Coat of Arms 2 == |
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[[User:Numerousfalx|Numerousfalx]], I would like you justification for stating that Lebanon is a protectorate of Syria. I think this is a highly charged political statement that needs justification. Until that justification is provided, I am deleting the reference. Thank you! [[User:PZFUN|PZFUN]] 05:23, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC) |
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The [[Coat of arms of Lebanon]] page has been developed enough, so i guess it should be okay putting the coat of arms on this page. [[Special:Contributions/185.76.178.100|185.76.178.100]] ([[User talk:185.76.178.100|talk]]) 10:06, 27 September 2023 (UTC) |
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And why is no mention made of the Israeli invasion of 1982? 19,000 people killed, a big mess made, US came in to try to clean it up. Most historians agree that Israel's '82 incursion was the cause of the rise of Hizbollah. - Leila |
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:or putting the cedar emblem next to the flag, exactly like the [[France]] page. The French emblem is used in a de facto capacity, so is the Lebanese emblem and coat of arms. [[Special:Contributions/178.135.8.101|178.135.8.101]] ([[User talk:178.135.8.101|talk]]) 16:59, 27 September 2023 (UTC) |
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A minor nitpick, but if no one minds too much, I'll add a sentence or so, explaining that the UN has officially declared Shebaa Farms BLA! to not be part of Lebanon. |
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::In support of this. [[User:WeaponizingArchitecture|<span style="color:#D33C3C">'''WeaponizingArchitecture'''</span>]] | [[User talk:WeaponizingArchitecture|<span style="color:#D33C3C">'''scream at me'''</span>]] 12:19, 10 October 2023 (UTC) |
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Also, Leila, I would argue that the rise of Hezbolla is its own fault. Choosing to become a terrorist organization is a free and conscious decision, as is joining such an organization, and engaging in the sorts of activities that Hezbollah engages in. [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] 18:18, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC). |
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:::Same here, in support of the cedar tree. It's a very distinct image and only associated with Lebanon [[User:Wkpdsrnm2023|Wkpdsrnm2023]] ([[User talk:Wkpdsrnm2023|talk]]) 07:27, 13 October 2023 (UTC) |
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:It hasn't really changed very much. It seems that there is still no specific source stating that this symbol is the country's coat of arms. It would be good to hear from participants in the earlier discussion @[[User:Largoplazo|Largoplazo]]; @[[User:Mir Novov|Mir Novov]]; @[[User:Beshogur|Beshogur]]; @[[User:Mnmazur|Mnmazur]]; @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]]; @[[User:LaundryPizza03|LaundryPizza03]]. [[User:Furius|Furius]] ([[User talk:Furius|talk]]) 08:44, 13 October 2023 (UTC) |
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::Doesn't matter if it's the coat of arms or not. Every country has a symbol next to their flag except for Lebanon. France has "Emblem", I suggest the cedar tree be put back as "Emblem" if the only problem is that it's not the coat of arms. [[User:Wkpdsrnm2023|Wkpdsrnm2023]] ([[User talk:Wkpdsrnm2023|talk]]) 08:50, 13 October 2023 (UTC) |
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:::Other stuff exists is not an argument. [[User:Beshogur|Beshogur]] ([[User talk:Beshogur|talk]]) 10:48, 13 October 2023 (UTC) |
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:::If France doesn't actually have an emblem, then that article should also not pretend that it does. If every other country shows some symbol because every other country ''has'' an official coat of arms or emblem, while Lebanon doesn't, then this article should not. The cedar is obviously a common ''motif'' used in representations of Lebanon (such as the flag), but is it, itself, considered an emblem? If not, then we shouldn't present it as such. [[User:Largoplazo|Largoplazo]] ([[User talk:Largoplazo|talk]]) 10:59, 13 October 2023 (UTC) |
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::::It's literally called Cedrus libani in scientific notation, meaning cedar of Lebanon. And Wikipedia has a line of code in the infobox for symbols that are not the coat of arms for this very situation: |
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::::symbol_type = emblem, seal, etc (if not a coat of arms) |
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::::Also, CIA says that "the green cedar tree is the symbol of Lebanon and represents eternity, steadiness, happiness, and prosperity" https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/lebanon/flag [[User:Wkpdsrnm2023|Wkpdsrnm2023]] ([[User talk:Wkpdsrnm2023|talk]]) 11:27, 13 October 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::Also mentioned in the Bible many times notably during the building of Solomon's temple in 1 Kings 5: |
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:::::"“So give orders that cedars of Lebanon be cut for me. My men will work with yours, and I will pay you for your men whatever wages you set. You know that we have no one so skilled in felling timber as the Sidonians.”" |
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:::::https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Kings%205-6&version=NIV |
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:::::And in Psalms: |
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:::::"The trees of the Lord are well watered, the cedars of Lebanon that he planted." |
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:::::https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+104&version=NIV [[User:Wkpdsrnm2023|Wkpdsrnm2023]] ([[User talk:Wkpdsrnm2023|talk]]) 11:34, 13 October 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::I'm taking issue with your first point. I'm going to suppose you don't think that any of ''Camellia sinensis'', ''Eriocheir sinensis'', ''Streptococcus sinensis'', or ''Clonorchis sinensis'' is an emblem of China, or that they are, respectively, that country's official plant, crustacean, bacterium, or parasite. [[User:Largoplazo|Largoplazo]] ([[User talk:Largoplazo|talk]]) 11:39, 13 October 2023 (UTC) |
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::::::Are those symbols on the Chinese flag? [[User:Wkpdsrnm2023|Wkpdsrnm2023]] ([[User talk:Wkpdsrnm2023|talk]]) 11:47, 13 October 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::::Or coins? |
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:::::::https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces3898.html [[User:Wkpdsrnm2023|Wkpdsrnm2023]] ([[User talk:Wkpdsrnm2023|talk]]) 11:56, 13 October 2023 (UTC) |
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::::::::Or paper bills? |
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::::::::https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_pound#/media/File:Billet_de_1000_livres_libanaises.jpg [[User:Wkpdsrnm2023|Wkpdsrnm2023]] ([[User talk:Wkpdsrnm2023|talk]]) 11:58, 13 October 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::::::''As I explicitly said'', I wasn't addressing any of those points, only the one about the taxonomic nomenclature. Which was an invalid point, as I illustrated. [[User:Largoplazo|Largoplazo]] ([[User talk:Largoplazo|talk]]) 12:21, 13 October 2023 (UTC) |
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::::::::::You won't address the point as it stands in context because you don't have an argument against it other than semantics. [[User:Wkpdsrnm2023|Wkpdsrnm2023]] ([[User talk:Wkpdsrnm2023|talk]]) 02:11, 15 October 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::::::::"Semantics"? ''You'' raised the point about the taxonomic name. If it was just "semantics", then why did ''you'' raise it? |
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:::::::::::As for why I didn't address any of your other points: There is no principle that "When somebody makes several points, thou shalt not address any of those points unless thou addressest all of those points." You made one point that was bad outright that I chose to address. Your other points aren't relevant to my comment on that point; I am not ''obliged'' to address the other points; and you appear to have chosen to harangue me on all the points I didn't address to avoid acknowledging my remark about that one point. [[User:Largoplazo|Largoplazo]] ([[User talk:Largoplazo|talk]]) 12:07, 15 October 2023 (UTC) |
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::::::::::::It was raised in context along with other points you intentionally chose not to see. You didn't answer the question either, so I'll ask again, are the Chinese bugs and other creatures on the Chinese flag? |
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::::::::::::I'll wait. [[User:Wkpdsrnm2023|Wkpdsrnm2023]] ([[User talk:Wkpdsrnm2023|talk]]) 00:11, 16 October 2023 (UTC):::::::::::::I saw all your points. But it seems that ''my'' point about how choosing to address ''one'' of your points doesn't obligate me to address any of the others didn't register with you. So stop talking to me as though I'm under such an obligation. By the way, 7 billion other people in the world also haven't addressed all your points. Why don't you also yell at them? [[User:Largoplazo|Largoplazo]] ([[User talk:Largoplazo|talk]]) 02:33, 16 October 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::::::Yeah stop spamming stuff. [[User:Beshogur|Beshogur]] ([[User talk:Beshogur|talk]]) 15:23, 13 October 2023 (UTC) |
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::::::::::Spamming links and references? That's just called research. How about let the conversation happen instead of trying to shut everything down. [[User:Wkpdsrnm2023|Wkpdsrnm2023]] ([[User talk:Wkpdsrnm2023|talk]]) 02:13, 15 October 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::::The taxonomic nomenclature is irrelevant. The Bible is very irrelevant, since the Republic of Lebanon didn't exist then. Coins and money are also irrelevant, since many countries have symbols on their coinage without that being their coat of arms. (In my home country of [[New Zealand]], for example, the [[silver fern]] is a very widely used national symbol in private and public contexts - including the passport! - but all of these usages are informal; it is not the coat of arms / official national symbol. The official coat of arms which appears in the infobox of WP's article on New Zealand is, in fact, very rarely seen or used). |
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:::::::The CIA world factbook is explaining why the symbol appears ''on the flag'', it does not establish that it is an official symbol in other contexts. So far, all we've had are examples of it being used in particular instances (extrapolating from those to the claim that the cedar is the official coat of arms/symbol/emblem of Lebanon is [[WP:OR]]). If the cedar (separate from the flag) is an official symbol/emblem/coat of arms of Lebanon, it should be very easy to point to [[WP:RS]] that explicitly say that it is an official symbol/emblem/coat of arms of Lebanon. It is striking that none of the proponents of this addition have been able to cite such a source. [[User:Furius|Furius]] ([[User talk:Furius|talk]]) 14:21, 13 October 2023 (UTC) |
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::::::::Sources are given. Calling them irrelevant doesn't make them irrelevant. You have to make an argument as to why that is the case other than "New Zealand has an official coat of arms and that's why the silver fern isn't displayed". As far as I'm concerned, the people opposing this are being exceptionally unreasonable. The symbol of the green cedar tree is literally everywhere throughout the country, all over the flag, the currency, the websites, things that are mentioned about the country now and throughout history - in ancient texts and modern texts. How much more do you need? Do you need the Lebanese government to explicitly state that the cedar tree is a symbol of Lebanon? Is that the only criteria? Is there no case for an obvious de facto symbol that is used throughout the world for the country?[[User:Wkpdsrnm2023|Wkpdsrnm2023]] ([[User talk:Wkpdsrnm2023|talk]]) 02:19, 15 October 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::::::Here's another source, Lebanon's country profile at the Library of Congress: |
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:::::::::https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/master/frd/frdcstdy/le/lebanoncountryst00coll/lebanoncountryst00coll.pdf |
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:::::::::"On the cover: Representing Lebanon's tragic civil strife, a |
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:::::::::cedar, the national symbol, is shown split in two." [[User:Wkpdsrnm2023|Wkpdsrnm2023]] ([[User talk:Wkpdsrnm2023|talk]]) 03:58, 15 October 2023 (UTC) |
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::::::::::Oh now it's split in two now? Do we have a real source? Preferably Libanese. [[User:Beshogur|Beshogur]] ([[User talk:Beshogur|talk]]) 04:51, 20 October 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::::::::Just yet another example. Here's one more in the national anthem: |
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:::::::::::"Her glory – her cedar, her symbol for eternity." |
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:::::::::::What's your argument again? The cedar can't be the symbol of the country because it is only on the flag, the currency, in the national anthem, on every government symbol, it's scientific name, in the Bible, in basically every article mentioning Lebanon..... but it's not explicitly stated word-for-word how you want it to be? [[User:Wkpdsrnm2023|Wkpdsrnm2023]] ([[User talk:Wkpdsrnm2023|talk]]) 09:11, 22 October 2023 (UTC) |
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:No it's not. Full of original research. [[User:Beshogur|Beshogur]] ([[User talk:Beshogur|talk]]) 10:49, 13 October 2023 (UTC) |
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::According to who? [[User:Wkpdsrnm2023|Wkpdsrnm2023]] ([[User talk:Wkpdsrnm2023|talk]]) 02:14, 15 October 2023 (UTC) |
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:::According to [[wp:or]]. [[User:Beshogur|Beshogur]] ([[User talk:Beshogur|talk]]) 15:31, 18 October 2023 (UTC) |
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::::Prove it. [[User:Wkpdsrnm2023|Wkpdsrnm2023]] ([[User talk:Wkpdsrnm2023|talk]]) 09:12, 22 October 2023 (UTC) |
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:@[[User:Largoplazo|Largoplazo]] I found some sources proving that it is indeed the unofficial coat of arms of Lebanon. It is mentioned and illustrated in page 64 of the book “Guide to the flags of the world” [https://archive.org/details/guidetoflagsofwo00talo/page/64/mode/1up]. It is also illustrated on page 62 of “The world of flags: a pictorial history” [https://archive.org/details/worldofflagspict0000cram/page/62/mode/2up]. [[Special:Contributions/71.239.86.150|71.239.86.150]] ([[User talk:71.239.86.150|talk]]) 14:45, 4 January 2024 (UTC) |
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== Edits by [[user:Smint34]] == |
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: Sure, but it's clearly the case that the 1982 debacle was instrumental in building support for Hezbullah, whatever you may think of that organization. [[User:TimBray|Tim Bray]] 22:23, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC) |
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There seems to be an edit war over [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Lebanon&curid=17771&diff=1184348731&oldid=1184326646 this]. I think I have some sympathy with Smint34's edit but it should be agreed here. Pinging [[User:Duvasee]]. [[User:DeCausa|DeCausa]] ([[User talk:DeCausa|talk]]) 21:51, 9 November 2023 (UTC) |
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Lebanon is under Syrian occupation. Anyone who denies that either doens't know Lebanon, or profits from the current situation. Hezbollah's rise was not due to the Israeli invasion. The people who later became Hezbollah were on the forefront of those welcoming the Israelis (because they were ridding them of the Palestinian threat). Hezbollah's excuse was the Israeli invasion, but Hezbollah's actual goals have nothing to do with Lebanon's freedom, independance, or sovereignty. |
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== Lebanon was home to Phoenicia? == |
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Further to the above, the article weirdly fails to mention how it is that the Syrian military came to be present in Lebanon; the invasion in the seventies (have to go look up the year) - weirdly, to save the Maronites & Phalangists from losing the civil war - is certainly worthy of note. [[User:TimBray|Tim Bray]] 22:23, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC) (Fixed it. [[User:TimBray|Tim Bray]] 00:29, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)) |
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Phoenicia predates Lebanon, so if Wikipedia is going to use this non-encyclopedic metaphor "home", ancient Phoenicia is now "home" to what is currently being called "Lebanon". Plus the source give doesn't even say these words, and the source is also not encyclopedic, even if it is somehow associated with Princeton. Describing an ancient trade as coming from the "innards" of snails is one example of the very casual and chatty tone of the source and so I doubt it's use for Wikipedia in any way, for factual reasons, for prioritization of topics (meaning elevating that which is entertaining over that which is objectively significant), and in general a sloppy, half-assed column that would be more appropriately found in a news magazine like "People", and not being used as source material for an encyclopedia. Meaning that, I read the Wikipedia Article, and I still don't know the history of the areas of the Middle East that is now known as "Lebanon", no matter what words it might be currently using, I don't trust them, or the Article. |
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:Tim, you should probably look at the [[Lebanese Civil War]] and [[History of Lebanon]] articles too to make sure there is not too much overlap. [[User:Jayjg|Jayjg ]]<sup><font color="DarkGreen">[[User_talk:Jayjg|(talk)]]</font></sup> 04:30, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC) |
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[[Special:Contributions/2603:8081:3A00:30DF:A5AB:9BE9:BAED:623B|2603:8081:3A00:30DF:A5AB:9BE9:BAED:623B]] ([[User talk:2603:8081:3A00:30DF:A5AB:9BE9:BAED:623B|talk]]) 21:56, 14 April 2024 (UTC) |
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I would like to expand the part of the History section related to the Ottoman period. Can I do it on the main page or are you suggesting to use the [[Lebanon/Temp]] page? |
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Who is completely rewriting the article on that page? |
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[[User:FrancescoMazzucotelli|Francesco Mazzucotelli]] |
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:Pedantic nonsense. Ancient Phoenicia and modern Lebanon closely overlap. Phoenician purple dye was indeed made from the innards of murex sea snails. These are both facts. A place can be "home to" something older than itself (eg most museums are home to old artefacts). Colloquial language (which "innards" isn't, really...) or an interest in entertainment doesn't necessarily make a source unreliable. [[User:Furius|Furius]] ([[User talk:Furius|talk]]) 08:20, 15 April 2024 (UTC) |
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::To be fair "home to Phoenicia" sounds odd and doesn't really make sense. Looking back it originally said "home to Phoenician civilization" which is a more usual phrase. I've revised it [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Lebanon&diff=1218956915&oldid=1217891448 here]. [[User:DeCausa|DeCausa]] ([[User talk:DeCausa|talk]]) 08:48, 15 April 2024 (UTC) |
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== Why the Religion Index or bar has been removed? == |
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The current wiki page on Religion has been tampered & Changed & the Religion bar has been removed from the page completely !!! No, proper way to go through the demographics of Lebanon properly!!! [[User:Skalvanov|Skalvanov]] ([[User talk:Skalvanov|talk]]) 18:51, 13 June 2024 (UTC) |
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== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 June 2024 == |
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=== Useful Resource === |
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{{edit extended-protected|Lebanon|answered=yes}} |
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[http://www.juancole.com/2005/03/lebanon-realignment-and-syria-it-is.html capsule history] from Juan Cole. |
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I am requesting to change the word Israel to be change to Palestine what has happeded lately I would appreciate if you acknowledge change the words Israel to Palestine that is all I ask [[User:Nenikijhk|Nenikijhk]] ([[User talk:Nenikijhk|talk]]) 19:52, 23 June 2024 (UTC) |
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:[[File:Red question icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a [[WP:EDITXY|"change X to Y" format]] and provide a [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable source]] if appropriate.<!-- Template:EEp --> There are 65 occurrences of "israel" in this article, which one(s) are you requesting be changed? the 1948 Arab–Israeli War to the 1948 Arab-Palestine War? [[User:Cannolis|Cannolis]] ([[User talk:Cannolis|talk]]) 20:13, 23 June 2024 (UTC) |
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== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 June 2024 == |
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===Small Question=== |
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Why do we sometimes call the country "''The'' Lebanon"? [[User:Adambisset|Adambisset]] 22:37, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC) |
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{{edit extended-protected|Lebanon|answered=yes}} |
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Same reason we used to say "The Ukraine", I guess [[User:TimBray|Tim Bray]] 00:29, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC) |
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Lebanon is a Mediterranean country. It should be listed as one, not as a country in west Asia. It hinders from its Mediterranean history and culture. [[User:TheLebanesePython|TheLebanesePython]] ([[User talk:TheLebanesePython|talk]]) 01:04, 24 June 2024 (UTC) |
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:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:EEp --> Lebanon is in West Asia, in the same way that [[Morocco]] is in North Africa ("Morocco ... is a country in the Maghreb region of North Africa") and Italy is in Europe ("Italy ... is a country in Southern and Western Europe"). The very second sentence of the article says that it (like Morocco and Italy) is on the Mediterranean. The rest of the article goes into detail about its history and culture. I think you're trying to make the first sentence accomplish more than it needs to. [[User:Largoplazo|Largoplazo]] ([[User talk:Largoplazo|talk]]) 02:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC) |
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== Proximity of Cyprus to Lebanon == |
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The Lebanon is a mountain range that gave its name to the country. There is a nice mape at |
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[http://worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/asia/lb.htm]. |
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We say "The Gambia" because this country is named after a river by the same name that runs straight |
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through the middle of the country. |
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Why we sometimes say "The Ukraine", I don't know. It could be something fairly obscure, as |
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I have asked a Ukrainian friend of mine and he didn't know. |
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I have noticed that in all these cases, the use of "The" is declining. [[User:137.99.17.110|137.99.17.110]] 15:03, 27 July 2006 (UTC) |
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It seems lazy and mis-informative to say in the lead that "'''''Cyprus lies a short distance away from [Lebanon's] coastline'''''". <u>Cyprus is approximately 100 miles offshore of Lebanon</u>. Changing the quoted phrase to "Cyprus lies 100 miles offshore of Lebanon" uses fewer words and is <u>precise</u>. |
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== National motto == |
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This is important if you live in Cyprus or are planning to visit Cyprus for tourism, which contributes 10 percent of its GDP. I wouldn't be keen on taking a holiday somewhere "a short distance away" from Lebanon any time soon, but I'd be happy to holiday on an island one hundred miles away. |
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Wikipedia is ''supposed ''to be an encyclopaedia, yet its articles are littered with phraseology like this. Isn't this a clear example of [[Wikipedia:WEASELWORDS|'''WP:Weaselwords''']]? [[User:Flusapochterasumesch|Flusapochterasumesch]] ([[User talk:Flusapochterasumesch|talk]]) 23:26, 3 August 2024 (UTC) |
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:How exactly are you quantifying the distance between these two countries, and from where are we measuring? 100 miles (on the dot, rounded) is not as precise as one clearly ''presumes'', so can you please go and fulfil your obligation to the wikipedia project and it's readership and provide and accurate measurement from a reputable reliable source to adhere resolutely to WP PRECISE. It may be necessary to note from where the distance is measured, for example it could be shorter or longer from Tyre than Beirut. |
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I don't think that the [[Lebanon|lebanese]] national [[motto]] is ''siyédé, 7orriyé, est2elel'' (freedom, sovereignity, independance). It's more like a phrase invented during the [[Cedar Revolution]] (and a little before). |
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Im my thought, the lebanese motto is taken from the lebanese [[national anthem]] ''Koulluna Lilwatan'' (All for the country) [[User:500LL|500LL]] 16:19, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC) |
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:Yes, "Freedom, Sovereignty, and Independance," referring to "liberation" from France, Israel, and Syria respectively, was developed I think by the Freedom Movement in commemoration for the first Lebanese independence day following the Cedar Revolution. -EDG [[User:69.37.120.209|69.37.120.209]] |
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::It was a used motto during the [[Cedar revolution]], but it surely isn't the national motto. [[User:Cedar-Guardian|CG]] 11:21, 10 January 2006 (UTC) |
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:::''7orriyé, siyédé, est2elel'' (freedom, sovereignity, independance) is the motto of FPM (Free Patriotic Movement-al tayyar al watani al hor -see http://www.tayyar.org) it was their motto during their political resistance against the syrian occupation and their lebanese agents for the last 15 years (1990-2005) until it was adopted later by the different other participants during the cedar revolution.[[User:Cyberius]] |
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:As nobody has had any qualms about this superflous tidbit factoid prior to this, your presumably good faith contribution to this talk page can otherwise be ignored unless anybody has any objections. Sincerely [[User:JJNito197|JJNito197]] ([[User talk:JJNito197|talk]]) 02:37, 4 August 2024 (UTC) |
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==Crowd estimate== |
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::How did I quantify the distance? I measured it on a map. And the shortest distance I measure is 100.67 miles. My source - a map. Any map. You can use Google Maps if you like. It gives the same result as the nautical chart I used. "Superflous [sic] tidbit factoid"? You are hilarious. Imagine an encyclopaedia specifying a distance! How superfluous! And that distance is between Cape Greco Penninsula (Cyprus) and Selaata (Lebanon). [[User:Flusapochterasumesch|Flusapochterasumesch]] ([[User talk:Flusapochterasumesch|talk]]) 14:40, 4 August 2024 (UTC) |
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Hi Addoula, can you provide a reference on the talk page for this edit please: "Lebanese officials estimated the crowds at around one and a half milion"? Many thanks, [[User:SlimVirgin|SlimVirgin]] 01:00, Mar 10, 2005 (UTC) |
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:::OK, you measured it on a map, figuring out yourself which pair of points in the respective countries are closer than any other pair of points in the respective countries. That makes it [[WP:OR]]. |
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:: Well, my sources are from newspapers in Lebanon, and from some news sites. The newspapers are in arabic, and i don't think they keep them always online. I will try to see if i can found them back. [[User:Addoula|Addoula]] 02:49, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC) |
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:::Conversely, JJNito197, "a short distance away from" is too vague to be informative, whereas "approximately 100 miles", while still needing to be properly sourced, is at least ''informative''. So given a citationless choice between the two, the latter makes more sense. [[User:Largoplazo|Largoplazo]] ([[User talk:Largoplazo|talk]]) 14:59, 4 August 2024 (UTC) |
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::: Here is 2 links [http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/4A02EB97-5B87-4F28-8B91-523CCAA3FE92.htm] and [http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/news_service/middle_east_full_story.asp?service_id=7326] |
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::::The article says that Lebanon is bordered by Syria to the north and east, and by Israel to the south. It's not referenced. How are these things known? Could it also be "original research"? Perhaps someone who looked at a map and assumed these things? |
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::::Thanks for finding those Addoula. The second doesn't mention the source, but the first says "an official source" and the television station of the Syrian-backed group Amal. So I wonder whether al-Jazeera was just picking it up from Amal. I'm going to attribute the claim in the article. [[User:SlimVirgin|SlimVirgin]] 06:22, Mar 10, 2005 (UTC) |
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::::N.B My sloppy phrase "approximately 100 miles" has been updated to "precisely 100.67 miles, from Cape Greco Peninsula to an outcrop near to Selaata, Lebanon". The reference for this is Google Maps. [[User:Flusapochterasumesch|Flusapochterasumesch]] ([[User talk:Flusapochterasumesch|talk]]) 15:52, 4 August 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::Anything that makes the lead longer than what is necessary would be difficult to follow for readability purposes per DUE WEIGHT. If we see the Israel page it specifies 'bordered by the Mediterranean Sea to the west'. In this case it would make more sense to keep this style, but include Cyprus, as in 'whilst Cyprus lies west across the Mediterranean sea'. This was also the standard on this article for many years. Whether or not this will perturb you from holidaying in Lebanon 'anytime soon' is irrelevant and we should not change the opening sentence to accommodate you. We could add a note to the sentence to elucidate further for those that want the distance quantified. Largoplazo if you have any better ways at structuring this please let us know. [[User:JJNito197|JJNito197]] ([[User talk:JJNito197|talk]]) 16:49, 4 August 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::As I mentioned in my original message, my proposed edit makes the lead shorter. Not longer. |
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::::::Kindly stop being rude and disparaging in your replies, and from attributing faux-perturbation to me. I suggested an edit to sloppy encyclopaedic text. I did not say I was perturbed or "deeply concerned". Nor did I express the opinion that there are people out there who will "want specific mileage". But this is an encyclopaedia and people use the resource for facts, details and information. [[User:Flusapochterasumesch|Flusapochterasumesch]] ([[User talk:Flusapochterasumesch|talk]]) 17:04, 4 August 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::::One cannot assume that this project can cover everything and anything, despite ''your'' admiration and aspiration to do so. You already laid out your reasoning for the proposal, albeit in jest, I hope. [[User:JJNito197|JJNito197]] ([[User talk:JJNito197|talk]]) 17:32, 4 August 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::::In jest? Do you follow current affairs? In the last 48 hours many countries including US, the UK, Australia, Sweden, France, Italy, Canada, South Korea, Saudi Arabia and Jordan have urged their citizens to leave Lebanon at the earliest possible opportunity; as the fear of an all-out war with Israel escalates. |
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::::::::So no. No jest. Anyone considering travelling to Cyprus would, I am sure, much prefer to know it is 100 miles away from Lebanon - not a short distance away. |
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::::::::Then there's the other reason - this is an encyclopaedia and it deals in facts, not [[Wikipedia:WEASELWORDS|WP:Weaslewords]] [[User:Flusapochterasumesch|Flusapochterasumesch]] ([[User talk:Flusapochterasumesch|talk]]) 17:43, 4 August 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::::::Regardless, the distance of the countries will remain the same in the foreseeable future, so specifying whether it is 100 miles or 10 miles as a pseudo-respite to accomodate or dissuade potential holiday goers is redundant and not helpful, considering that Lebanon exists as an entity separate from the machinations of world politics foremostly. One needs to understand that the tumultuous situation is expected to be exacerbated congruently, be it across the Mediterranean or on the immediate border. So if you are looking at a holiday anytime soon, I would imagine the best place to visit is ones own backyard. Kind regards [[User:JJNito197|JJNito197]] ([[User talk:JJNito197|talk]]) 17:56, 4 August 2024 (UTC) |
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== Dispute resolution - please advise on most suitable arbitration process == |
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:::::I removed the bolded part of this section: "Targeted by resolution 1559, and considered a terrorist group by Western governments, Hezbollah has been ordered to disarm. The group has since tried to organize protests against foreign intervention, '''in order to retain a leading role in the country, and also to continue promoting fundamentalism, which would cause friction and general instability in the region.''' It was a little unclear: they want to retain a leading role ... in order to continue promoting fundamentalism. I know what you mean but it's not clear exactly how one leads to the other; perhaps if it was reworded. And "which would cause friction" etc. I'm sure that's right, but it's an opinion and needs attribution. [[User:SlimVirgin|SlimVirgin]] 06:41, Mar 10, 2005 (UTC) |
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Dear @[[User:JJNito197|JJNito197]] |
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I have asked for the following edit to be made to this article. In the format 'change X to Y', here is my request for you once more: |
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X - "Cyprus lies a short distance away from the country's coastline" |
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Y - "Cyprus lies approximately 100 miles from the country's coastline" |
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using this link as a citation (or linking to any other publicly available measure such as Google Maps) |
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https://ibb.co/VBKD0Pw which shows the exact shortest distance from coast to coast to be approximately 100.46 miles depending upon tides etc. |
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My rationale is that the words "lies a short distance away from" are [[Wikipedia:WEASELWORDS|WP:Weaselwords]] and not worthy of an encyclopaedia of Wikipedia's prestige. |
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You have refused this edit request several times and been deliberately obtuse, disparaging, belligerent and obfuscatory. You have also locked down this article. |
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Can you advise me please, as a senior editor of the project, how I should go about escalating my complaint about your behaviour, and how I should seek arbitration from more competent editors? [[User:Flusapochterasumesch|Flusapochterasumesch]] ([[User talk:Flusapochterasumesch|talk]]) 22:26, 4 August 2024 (UTC) |
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== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 September 2024 == |
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{{edit extended-protected|Lebanon|answered=yes}} |
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== Civil War 1975- 1990? == |
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Personally as a Lebanese person I can attest that Lebanese culture is one of the ancient Mediterranean cultures of the world. It is favorable if Lebanon is not introduced as a “ country in West Asia “ rather a “ a Mediterranean country in the Levant “. I believe this is much more suitable. |
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I hope you accept my request and blessings 🙏🏼 [[User:LebaneseCanan|LebaneseCanan]] ([[User talk:LebaneseCanan|talk]]) 04:51, 18 September 2024 (UTC) |
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The article says that the civil war lasted between 1975 to 1990. If I'm not mistaken, I think the civil war in Lebanon lasted until 1992. Didn't the war last for 17 years?--[[User:Gramaic|Gramaic]] 23:20, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC) |
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::[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:EEp --> It already says it's in the Levant in the first sentence and that it's on the Mediterranean in the second. It's a description of the physical location of the country, not a characterization of its culture. [[User:Largoplazo|Largoplazo]] ([[User talk:Largoplazo|talk]]) 10:53, 18 September 2024 (UTC) |
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== Grouping of settlements == |
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: The war started in 1975, and the last big battle was fought in October 1990, between General Michel Aoun and Syrian forces (backed by others, among them the Christian milita "Lebanese Forces"). In September 1991 the Lebanese-Syrian Security Pact war signed. This could be seen as a kind of official ending of the war, if you like. Most people refer to a timeline of 15 years, from 1975 to 1990. |
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Might I suggest someone that knows the country that on a settlement's page, to start adding a "municipality" section in its infobox to show not just the governorate and district in which it is located, but the actual local government that it is subordinate, too? I think the [[Dahieh]] article - in both English and French - is a good example of this which doesn't really give a sense of what municipalities - or which municipalities if it crosses borders - it belongs to. It's basically written as if it's a municipality/local government, itself, though it also is heavily implied that it's made up of multiple cities. |
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== Article size == |
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Also, too, I've noticed that on most District articles they have a list of "cities and villages" or "cities and towns" section, and I imagine that these are simply settlements regardless of local government, but that's never made clear. [[User:Criticalthinker|Criticalthinker]] ([[User talk:Criticalthinker|talk]]) 09:10, 29 September 2024 (UTC) |
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Don't you think that the size of this article is a bit too big. I think that it should be shortened, especially in the history (Cedar revolution) and politics section, since there is a main article of each. [[User:500LL|500LL]] 17:36, Apr 23, 2005 (UTC) |
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:Wait, now I'm seeing shapefiles that have a third administrative level below "Districts" called "sub-districts" which appear to be smaller than the [[List of municipalities of Lebanon|municipalities]]? I know all of these may not be functional, but what's going on? Someone please make sense of this and bring sources. Just as an example, which municipalities make up "Dahieh"? [[User:Criticalthinker|Criticalthinker]] ([[User talk:Criticalthinker|talk]]) 10:57, 7 October 2024 (UTC) |
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: I think the entire Cedar Revolution section can be summarized into one or two lines and simply linked. --[[User:AladdinSE|AladdinSE]] 21:28, Apr 23, 2005 (UTC) |
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::Anyone? [[User:Criticalthinker|Criticalthinker]] ([[User talk:Criticalthinker|talk]]) 03:59, 16 October 2024 (UTC) |
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== Link to Arafat page == |
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== Beirut-Blog.de / Beirut-Diary.com - Country profile "Lebanon" == |
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Arafat is mentioned without linking to his page or explaining who he was. [[User:Domwsr|Domwsr]] ([[User talk:Domwsr|talk]]) 07:45, 2 October 2024 (UTC) |
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Hi all, |
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I had a discussion with Jayjg about the websites mentioned above. I put the links in, he removed them. I think the sites contain some interesting information about the "Cedar Revolution". Especially the media section is not bad (never found such coverage of the blasts anywhere else on the web). And the recent report about a demonstration for Samir Geagea is not bad as well (also no such stuff found in the mainstream media at that time). So, if you feel like these pages could be of value for Wikipedia, please leave your comment. Please take a closer look before commenting. Though the names of the pages may make you think they are blogs. Indeed, they are not. The author is a German freelancer. I am not the author. |
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:I've taken care of it! [[User:Largoplazo|Largoplazo]] ([[User talk:Largoplazo|talk]]) 10:42, 2 October 2024 (UTC) |
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Best wishes |
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::Very fast, thanks. Typo in Yassir/Yasser though? [[User:Domwsr|Domwsr]] ([[User talk:Domwsr|talk]]) 14:56, 2 October 2024 (UTC) |
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Professorarguile |
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:::Oh, ha, you're right! Fixed. [[User:Largoplazo|Largoplazo]] ([[User talk:Largoplazo|talk]]) 16:33, 2 October 2024 (UTC) |
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Lebanon (southern) vs Israel [[Special:Contributions/104.138.152.29|104.138.152.29]] ([[User talk:104.138.152.29|talk]]) 21:02, 4 October 2024 (UTC) |
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There is no such thing as "too much history." The "Cedar Revolution" is a glorious and PEACEFUL event (honestly, how often is it that so many can converge in one place of heightened political and social tension without a violent ending?) evincing the true nature and desires of the people. Please do not cut the article short. |
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== Leading description == |
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Lebanon is an ancient and complicated country..cutting this section short would only create confusion in the minds of people who arent familiar with its history. There is nothing easy about describing the Civil War or the Cedar Revolution and while its true that the former lasted for about 15 years and the latter for aproximately 6 months...both need to be described in detail because of the sheer significance that accompanies both events. Oh and by the way, about Shebbaa Farms, both the UN and Isreal are willing to concede that the territory is Lebanese provided that Syria and Lebanon complete the appropriate paperwork with the UN. Currently Prime Minister Siniora is actively pursuing Syrian cooperation in this endeavor but has pretty much been stone-walled. Some believe that Syria's lack of cooperation stems from its belief that if Shebaa Farms is resolved Hizbollah will be forced to disarm and Syria will be left with no indirect means to attack Isreal and its interests. The last thing that Syria wants right now, especially after all its political failures thus far, is to become irrelevant. |
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-NCNA |
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I think the lead should change from West Asia to Middle East. "West Asia" is barely a term that is only used by a few people, mostly by Geography teachers, Lebanon is always referred to as the core countries of the Middle East. [[User:ShawarmaFan07|ShawarmaFan07]] ([[User talk:ShawarmaFan07|talk]]) 20:35, 8 October 2024 (UTC) |
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== Demographics issues == |
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== Ceasefire == |
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Lebanese demographics have 2 problems: 1) it is a politically sensitive topic (christian vs muslim majority etc.) and therefore open to advocacy and 2) there are no reliable census numbers (apparently on purpose, because of issue 1). I would love to see more sources on this, but all that is listed is estimates. |
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The recent ceasefire fire between Israel and Hezbollah should be added to the last paragraph of the History section. [[User:Fyukfy5|Fyukfy5]] ([[User talk:Fyukfy5|talk]]) 16:23, 29 November 2024 (UTC) |
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I reverted on of the changes by 64.136.49.226 namely that the christian diaspora is majority christian. I think there is little disagreement on this, when the diaspora includes people of Lebanese descent (prior to the civil war, most emigration was christian ). In fact, this is one of the reasons that there is now a muslim majority in Lebanon proper. 64.136.49.226 did not challenge that fact in a previous paragraph. [[User:Tony Makhlouf|Tony Makhlouf]] |
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== Semi-protected edit request == |
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It's a controversial topic here: either give a range of numbers on which everybody will agree, or give the source of the number. --[[User:Equitor|equitor]] 21:38, August 22, 2005 (UTC) |
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{{edit extended-protected|Lebanon|answered=yes}} |
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== Lebanese is not a language == |
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In the second paragraph, where it mentions “The 11th century saw the establishment of Crusader states, which fell to the Ayyubids and the Mamluks, and eventually the Ottomans”, after the word Ottomans, please add that it was part of the region known as [[Ottoman Syria]]. |
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https://guides.library.illinois.edu/c.php?g=348323&p=2347109 [[Special:Contributions/2600:100C:A218:9A7B:E879:81B4:EADF:A345|2600:100C:A218:9A7B:E879:81B4:EADF:A345]] ([[User talk:2600:100C:A218:9A7B:E879:81B4:EADF:A345|talk]]) 21:31, 30 November 2024 (UTC) |
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:[[File:X mark.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done for now''': please establish a [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for this alteration '''[[Wikipedia:Edit requests|before]]''' using the {{Tlx|Edit extended-protected}} template.<!-- Template:EEp --> I think that's too much detail for a lead section. But if other editors disagree with me I'm happy for the change [[User:Ultraodan|Ultraodan]] ([[User talk:Ultraodan|talk]]) 11:31, 29 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== Claims about refugee camps not supported by citation == |
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It is a dialect. However, those who argue that it is a language do not call it "Lebanese". They identify it as [[Levantine_Arabic]]. Either way, "Lebanese" is not a language.[[User:Yuber|Yuber]] 01:17, 6 May 2005 (UTC) |
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Perhaps these claims should not remain without citation. |
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Yuber, You are absolutely correct: It is a dialect that is understood by most of the Arabic speaking countries, but spoken only by the Lebanese. Said Akl (poet and writer) has created an alphabet that is used to write the "spoken arabic called Lebanese", and can still be found in Lebanon, though not widely used. |
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"Many Islamist and Palestinian militias operate in refugee camps because of an agreement that prevents the Lebanese Army from entering them. Many people wanted by the Lebanese government are believed to have taken refuge in the camp as a result of the lack of Lebanese authority." [[User:Lonsuderforpresident|Lonsuderforpresident]] ([[User talk:Lonsuderforpresident|talk]]) 01:17, 8 December 2024 (UTC) |
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True, Said Akl did develop an alphabet based on the Latin system. However, it was never in use and was little more than a personal experiment. Lebanese is not a language but a dialect as it has no standard form. |
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== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 December 2024 == |
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{{edit extended-protected|Lebanon|answered=no}} |
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I would like to ask you to refrain from representing your personal opinions as "truth" because none of you is an expert on languages.[[User:Zerolando|Zerolando]] 08:16, 4 September 2006 (UTC) |
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SUMMARY: |
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Proposal to add {{citation needed}} to the end of the last paragraph in the section "Military" |
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== Vandalism == |
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Vandalism possibility from user at IP 70.68.229.245 --[[User:CARPEDIEM|NEWUSER|CARPEDIEM ]][[User talk:CARPEDIEM|<sup>(talk)</sup> ]] 11:53, May 25, 2005 (UTC) |
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CURRENT TEXT: |
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Hezbollah effectively controls large portions of southern Lebanon, and has greater military strength than the Lebanese armed forces.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Nashed |first=Mat |title=Could rival Lebanese factions exploit a weakened Hezbollah? |url=https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/9/30/could-rival-lebanese-factions-exploit-a-weakened-hezbollah |access-date=2024-12-01 |website=Al Jazeera |language=en}}</ref> The government of Lebanon has been unable or unwilling to prevent Hezbollah attacks on Israel, and violent conflict between Israel and Hezbollah in southern Lebanon.<ref>{{Cite web |title=What Is Hezbollah? {{!}} Council on Foreign Relations |url=https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-hezbollah |access-date=2024-12-01 |website=www.cfr.org |language=en}}</ref> Many Islamist and Palestinian militias operate in refugee camps because of an agreement that prevents the Lebanese Army from entering them. Many people wanted by the Lebanese government are believed to have taken refuge in the camp as a result of the lack of Lebanese authority. |
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== "Cedar Revolution" !!! why? == |
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I wanna know how come the name for the revolution that happened in leb recently have been called the name "Cedar Revolution", this name has been given by U.S. officials, not lebanese!! Lebanese do call it Intifada of Independence, that's a fact! should it be named the way lebanese call it or what western medias prefer to call? |
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PROPOSED TEXT: |
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:The most popular term for it in the '''English-speaking''' world is "Cedar Revolution". Yes, Lebanese do not call it that, but this is the English Wikipedia.[[User:Yuber|Yuber]]<sup><small><font color="#FF8C00">[[User_talk:Yuber|(talk)]]</font></small></sup> 18:23, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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Hezbollah effectively controls large portions of southern Lebanon, and has greater military strength than the Lebanese armed forces.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Nashed |first=Mat |title=Could rival Lebanese factions exploit a weakened Hezbollah? |url=https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/9/30/could-rival-lebanese-factions-exploit-a-weakened-hezbollah |access-date=2024-12-01 |website=Al Jazeera |language=en}}</ref> The government of Lebanon has been unable or unwilling to prevent Hezbollah attacks on Israel, and violent conflict between Israel and Hezbollah in southern Lebanon.<ref>{{Cite web |title=What Is Hezbollah? {{!}} Council on Foreign Relations |url=https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-hezbollah |access-date=2024-12-01 |website=www.cfr.org |language=en}}</ref> Many Islamist and Palestinian militias operate in refugee camps because of an agreement that prevents the Lebanese Army from entering them. Many people wanted by the Lebanese government are believed to have taken refuge in the camp as a result of the lack of Lebanese authority.{{citation needed}} [[User:Lonsuderforpresident|Lonsuderforpresident]] ([[User talk:Lonsuderforpresident|talk]]) 00:16, 10 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::It's best to keep the title "Cedar Revolution." I personally think if someone uses the term "Intifada of Independence," the general public will automatically think of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict when they hear the word "intifada."--[[User:Gramaic|Gramaic]] 00:46, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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:::Sadly it seems that the term "intifada" is pushed by media to be linked with Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the term "initifada" refers to the ppl own wakeup call against pressure, mistreatement and discrimination. To be fair, just and objective you should put both in the title! be open for christ's sake!!! --''Jean'' 22:08, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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== History or Current Events? == |
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The ''History'' section of this article is pretty much limited to the last 30 years, or less than 0,5% of Lebanese history. |
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Friends, this is supposed to be an encyclapedia. There is another Wiki project for news. There is a lot that can be said about Lebanese history, from the invention of the alphabet, to the circumnavigation of Africa (before the founding of Rome), to the story of how the name changed from Purple Country to Yogurt Country. I'd be glad to contribute. Can we reach a consensus on the content? |
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--[[User:Philopedia|Philopedia]] 5 July 2005 13:32 (UTC) |
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:Yes I think that the history section of the article should be summarized, specially the Cedar revolutio part. You're right, this section is very unbalanced: why the withdrawal of Syrian troops have a subsection and the withdrawal of french troops doesn't have one? [[User:500LL|500LL]] July 5, 2005 13:49 (UTC) |
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Thanks! |
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I've noticed that there is a [Canaan] site as well, although there, too, there are major problems. I'll want to think how best to proceed. In the meantime I am adding a couple of external links. The US State Department maintains a collection of country studies which, while not without bias, does an admirable job of describing Lebanese history. There is also the Daily Star, an above average, on-line Lebanese newspaper. |
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--[[User:Philopedia|Philopedia]] 7 July 2005 13:00 (UTC) |
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From the article (Early history until 1943 independence): "...but following World War I, the area became a part of the ''Syrian Mandate of France''". The Syrian Mandate? That should be the French Mandate... [[[[User:J. Begine|J. Begine]] 12:06, 11 August 2006 (UTC)]] |
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== Environmental destruction == |
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Apparently, Lebanon was not a baren desert some 5000 years ago. Human, as destructive as we are were responsible for the sorry state that country is in. This is according to a book called The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight by Thom Hartmann. A couple of quotes are available here that demonstrate the difference the 5000 years have brought. [http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=156145&cid=13091867] I think, if someone have read this book, its worth adding a paragraph that highlight this historical information. |
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:i don't understand your statement. Lebanon is far to be a "baren desert". Although there is obviously an hydric stress, the situation is far from being as bad as in Israel and Jordan (ever been to the snow covered Mt Lebanon ?). Though it is true that massive deforrestation happened in the last 5000 yrs, it is not specific to Lebanon (where did it not happen where humans settled massively ?). |
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:Furthermore, connection with your link (which is actually a forum post, not to be considered as a reliable link) is not obvious as the post is focusing on the "fertile crescent", mentioning only Jordan, Syria, Turkey, Iraq, and Iran. |
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:Thus, I don't say that this is not an issue, but it is not at all a lebanon-specific issue. Would be interesting to develop it in a article such as "Environmental Issues in Middle East", or "Human caused environmental changes", whatever... [[User:Kekel|Kekel]] 06:44, 17 July 2006 (UTC) |
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== [[Damour massacre]] == |
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I've just started this new article that talks about the massacre that took place in Damour, Lebanon during the Lebanese Civil War. I thought that the people who work with this article would also like to work and edit the article [[Damour massacre]]. --[[User:Gramaic|Gramaic]] | [[User talk:Gramaic|Talk]] 09:40, 21 July 2005 (UTC) |
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I wonder why are you writing an article about this only..there were millions of massacres done in lebanon during the israeli invasion and then during the civil war...i think it would be more appropriate if you place a section on massacres and list them instead of detailing one of these--Silent Music |
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Because like Sabra and Shatila, it's an important massacre in Lebanese history. And there wasn't 'millions of massacres' in Lebanon. --[[User:Equitor|equitor]] 18:02, 18 October 2005 (UTC) |
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:Thanks equitor. The reason I'm currently writing about the massacre that took place in Damour, is because this is one of the events in Lebanon I'm more familiar with. By the way, Silent Music (whatever you call yourself), you stated that "you think it would be more appropriate if I placed a section on massacres and listed them instead of detailing one of these." Then go create and start more articles about various different massacres that took place in Lebanon. Who's stopping you? Wikipedia can sure use more good contributors. Regards, --[[User:Gramaic|Gramaic]] | [[User talk:Gramaic|Talk]] 00:08, 19 October 2005 (UTC) |
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== what should figure in this article == |
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I just saw that this was added |
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:Maj. Gen. Jamil Sayyed, the top Syrian ally in the Lebanese security forces, resigned on Monday, [[25 April]], just a day before the final Syrian troops pulled out of Lebanon. |
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Is it really worth being in the article? I mean the article is on Lebanon but should not be an exhaustive chronology of the country's politics. This should be placed in Lebanon's politics article--[[User:Equitor|equitor]] 05:09, July 25, 2005 (UTC) |
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==External links== |
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This page contains far too many external links. [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not|Wikipedia is not]] a web directory. I've removed the following. [[User:Angela|Angela]][[user talk:Angela|.]] 21:25, August 26, 2005 (UTC) |
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'''Overviews''' |
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*[http://countrystudies.us/lebanon/ US State Department History of Lebanon] |
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**Just a bunch of links to other pages. If there's anything useful, link to it directly. |
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*[http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/le.html CIA World Factbook - ''Lebanon''] |
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**This is public domain information. If it's useful, add it to the article and cite the source as a reference rather than an external link. |
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'''History''' |
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*[http://www.phoenicia.org/ More than 6000 years of history] |
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'''Governmental''' |
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*[http://www.darfatwa.gov.lb/ Dar al Fatwa] |
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**Site is in Arabic, so won't be useful for most readers of this article. They can go to the Arabic Dmoz if they need these links. |
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*[http://www.isf.gov.lb/ Internal Security Forces] |
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**Site is in Arabic, so won't be useful for most readers of this article. They can go to the Arabic Dmoz if they need these links. |
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*[http://www.leb_army.gov.lb/ Lebanese Armed Forces] |
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**Broken link. |
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*[http://www.mpt.gov.lb/ Ministry of Post & Telecommunications] |
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**Might be relevant in a telecommunications article. Is not relevant in this one. |
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*[http://www.can.gov.lb/ National Archives] |
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**Site is in Arabic, so won't be useful for most readers of this article. They can go to the Arabic Dmoz if they need these links. |
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*[http://www.lp.gov.lb/ The Lebanese Parliament] |
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**Site is in Arabic, so won't be useful for most readers of this article. They can go to the Arabic Dmoz if they need these links. |
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*[http://www.shiitecouncil.gov.lb/ The Supreme Islamic Shi'ite Council] |
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**Site is in Arabic, so won't be useful for most readers of this article. They can go to the Arabic Dmoz if they need these links. |
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'''Educational''' |
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:All of these could be in articles about those universities if they're useful. They are not relevant to a general article on the country. |
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*[http://www.ul.edu.lb/ Lebanese University] |
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*[http://www.aub.edu.lb/ American University of Beirut] |
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*[http://www.bau.edu.lb/ Beirut Arab University] |
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*[http://www.buonline.edu.lb/ Beirut University Online] |
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*[http://www.lau.edu.lb/ Lebanese American University] |
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*[http://www.cnrs.edu.lb/ The Lebanese National Council for Scientific Research] |
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'''Political''' |
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*[http://www.moqawama.net/index.php Hezbollah] |
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**Site is in Arabic, so won't be useful for most readers of this article. They can go to the Arabic Dmoz if they need these links. |
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*[http://www.LebaneseForces.com/ Lebanese Forces] |
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**Might be relevant in an article about the Lebanese Forces, but not in one about the country. |
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*[http://www.el-kataeb.org/ The Lebanese Kataeb] |
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**Site is in Arabic, so won't be useful for most readers of this article. They can go to the Arabic Dmoz if they need these links. |
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*[http://www.tayyar.org/ Free Patriotic Movement] |
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**Site is in Arabic, so won't be useful for most readers of this article. They can go to the Arabic Dmoz if they need these links. |
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'''News''' |
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:Wikipedia is not a news site and not a web directory, so all these links shouldn't be here. This isn't a place to find news. |
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*[http://www.nna-leb.gov.lb/ Lebanese National News Agency] |
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*[http://www.almustaqbal.com/ ''Al Mustaqbal''] national newspaper |
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*[http://www.assafir.com/ ''Assafir''] national newspaper |
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*[http://www.aliwaa.com/ ''Al Liwaa''] national newspaper |
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*[http://www.dailystar.com.lb/ ''The Daily Star''] national newspaper |
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*[http://yalibnan.com/ Ya Libnan] national newspaper |
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*[http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc/World/Lebanon Yahoo! News Full Coverage - Lebanon] news headline links |
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*[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/country_profiles/791071.stm BBC News - Country profile: Lebanon] includes ongoing coverage |
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*[http://www.guardian.co.uk/syria/ Guardian Unlimited - Special Report: Syria and Lebanon] includes ongoing coverage |
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'''Communities''' |
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*[http://www.lebgeeks.com/ Lebanese] technology community |
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**Just some sort of forum. Not relevant to an article about the country. |
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'''Blogs''' |
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*[http://www.BloggingBeirut.com/ Blogging Beirut] Photography, the Environment, Human Rights, the Culture, the People of Beirut. |
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*[http://beirutspring.blogspot.com/ The Beirut Spring] Commentary on local politics with a touch of humour. |
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*[http://beirut2bayside.blogspot.com/ Accross The Bay] Sharp clearinghouse of information on Syria and Lebanon |
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: I disagree with some of your choices, Angela. Wikipedia is not a web directory, but external references which can provide additional valuable information can be important to the reader. I 'strongly' disagree with the deletion of links to sites in languages other than English. The fact that *you* do not read Arabic doesn't mean that other English-speaking Wiki users are unable to read material in Arabic. Please use 'relevance' to the article as the criterion of selection. [[User:FrancescoMazzucotelli|FrancescoMazzucotelli]] 16:20, 29 December 2005 (UTC) |
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I have reinstated a few links that [[User:Angela|Angela]] had removed. The ISF site now has a page in English. I also checked the correct link to the website of the Lebanese Armed Forces. I reinstated some links in the "news" category, because they can provide valuable information to the average reader. Nowhere in the [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not]] standards it is stated that an extensive list of sites is incompatible with Wikipedia's firmly established policies and standards. On the other hand, you can read that an extensive list is acceptable as long as it does not ''dwarf articles and detract from the purpose of Wikipedia'' (which is not the case here). |
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Adding links to sites in languages other than English seems to be a fairly common feature in many Wikipedia articles. I highlighted such links with a language template such as {{ar icon}} for sites in Arabic and {{fr icon}} for sites in French. [[User:FrancescoMazzucotelli|FrancescoMazzucotelli]] 00:19, 30 December 2005 (UTC) |
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I have reverted some comments that '''194.126.24.2''' had left in the Links section, after asking how endowed was John Holmes. |
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Please leave the {{ar icon}} language template for sites in Arabic only. |
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[[User:FrancescoMazzucotelli|FrancescoMazzucotelli]] |
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Why is the Lebanese embassy in the US an external link? Are links to other Lebanese embassies to be added? [[User:203.206.2.245|203.206.2.245]] 16:28, 21 July 2006 (UTC) |
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== [[Wikipedia:Neutral point of view#Anglo-American focus|Anglo-American focus]] == |
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I know it is English Wiki but (for me) it seems that UK/US/CommonWealth people simply cannot overcome their prejudice. Yes, in vast numbers of English-speaking media the attacks are called terrorist ones. However some editions of the article were quoting them without the ''proper'' tag and got reverted. The fact that the majority of editors here ''do not'' understand Arabic does not automagically mean the other's point is wrong. Remember - for Arabs the English is not an easy language and not too many are able to contribute at the level one would expect. Please do not alienate them. |
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Meanwhile the section for the climate went deleted just as collateral damage. Maybe other editors do not agree with political position of 130.54.130.228 but the Weather/Climate section of his last two edits was just fine. |
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I was looking to find information about the country and got a lot of politics. There are links above each section. Why cant the whole history (Phoenicians, Alexander the Great, Romans, Arab Halifate, Otoman Empire, and 20th century Arabs) be summarized within one screen and the rest to be moved in linked articles? If there is too much information one can even spun off from "History ..." another articles for "Civil War" and/or "Cedar Revolution". |
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Is it so hard to quote '''both''' positions in a tone as neutral as possible. The article is getting more reverts than edits, while readers like me are trying to filter out the POVs and find the truth. I am not going to touch anything in order to avoid reignited edit wars, and am appealing to your dignity and neutrality. |
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Regards, [[User:Bggoldie|Goldie]] [[User talk:Bggoldie|(tell me)]] 18:07, 7 November 2005 (UTC) |
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==Bekaa== |
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I've heard the Bekaa's #1 crop 1975 on was hashish. Mention it? [[User:Trekphiler|Trekphiler]] 06:25, 12 December 2005 (UTC) |
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== Coat of Arms == |
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Shouldn't the little curled up bit on the right side of the coat of arms be white, the same colour as the piece of the shield that's curling over? [[User:Osgoodelawyer|Osgoodelawyer]] 14:54, 21 December 2005 (UTC) |
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===Licensing=== |
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I haven't been able to find a definite, uncopyrighted source for [[:Image:Lebanese_COA.png]]. Could someone look into the problem? --[[User:Tom Edwards|Tom Edwards]] 14:40, 12 February 2006 (UTC) |
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:I think it could be marked as fair use. [[User:Cedar-Guardian|CG]] 15:54, 12 February 2006 (UTC) |
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::As far as I understand fair use, we would need to know the purpose of the piece's existence first. But can you even claim copyright on something like a flag, even if you drew it? --[[User:Tom Edwards|Tom Edwards]] 16:19, 12 February 2006 (UTC) |
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== Grammar == |
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Would anybody object if I ran through this article with a fine comb to purge it of its few but noticeable grammar errors? [[User:Samuelsaltman|paragon]] 02:46, 20 January 2006 (UTC) |
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:No, not at all. After all, one of Wikipedia's mottos is '''[[Wikipedia:Be bold in updating pages|be bold]]'''! --[[User:Khoikhoi|Khoikhoi]] 03:45, 20 January 2006 (UTC) |
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::Ok. Here goes... First of all, this paragraph is vague (which isn't really a grammatical error but is important to note nonetheless): |
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:::After the 1948 Arab-Israeli conflict, Lebanon became home to more than 110,000 Palestinian refugees who had fled from Israel. '''More Palestinian refugees arrived after the 1967 Arab-Israeli war and Black September, and by 1975 numbered more than 300,000, led by Yassir Arafat's Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO).''' During the early 1970s '''difficulties arose''' over the increase of Palestinian refugees in the south, and full-scale civil war broke out in April 1975, leaving the nation with no effective central government. |
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::Furthermore, the sentence in bold is especially confusing because "led by Yasser Arafat's Palestine Liberation Organization" is unclear. What did he lead? the arrival of the refugees? the Palestinian military forces? their governance? I'm changing it to "More Palestinian refugees arrived after the 1967 Arab-Israeli war and Black September. By 1975 they numbered more than 300,000 with Yassir Arafat's Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) in charge of their political and military activities." |
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::Also, "difficulties arose" is a heck of a way to gloss over the causes of a war. Usually, the causes of a war are its most important and most studied aspect. I know that this is not a "main page" for the civil war but I still think that these causes should be given a little more attention. |
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::I believe more attention should be paid to the internal battles between the Aoun and Gemayel camps at the end of the war. Too often this war is described as Muslim versus Christian. Often, that was not the case. Looking at the Ta'if we know that there are 18 recognized national groups that fall under Islam and Christianity. And, at different times Islamic groups were battling each other, as were Christian groups killing each other. |
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::More to come... |
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::[[User:Samuelsaltman|paragon]] 04:13, 20 January 2006 (UTC) |
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:::Thanks! --[[User:Khoikhoi|Khoikhoi]] 04:24, 20 January 2006 (UTC) |
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== Appalling article == |
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The entire section about the war is terribly written. It is disjointed, fragmented, biased, uses too much rhetoric, and is extremely vague. I'm not qualified to update it myself, but I strongly recommend that the article is flagged as a concern. As it stands it is an insult to the conflict it describes, never mind the lives people lost in it. |
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------------------- |
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Here here. There is a lot of shit. Did you see the 1.5 million protest. Thats utter nonesence. Typical arab muslim retarded shit. Its easier to believe that the planet is a square than this terrorist filth, |
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This is because it is edited and moderated by people with israeli interest, not lebanese interest. Wiki is always biased when you look at political/historical sections. Other areas are moderated more in line with NPOV, but anything to do with US/ISRAEL is often heavily pro US/ISRAEL and POV. |
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I believe that sentence in itself shows bias in the opposite direction, and I might point out that a number of people are striving to create an unbiased article. |
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<small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:129.240.108.49|129.240.108.49]] ([[User talk:129.240.108.49|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/129.240.108.49|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small> |
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==Lebanon and the Middle East are being Balkanized== |
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We Can See how the Middle East is being Balkanized |
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Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Caucasia, and the Middle East are being balkanized were everyone fights each other like in Yugoslavia. And who wins with fabricated ethnic disputes? Guess who! |
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This statment is made in relations to Iran but symbolizes what is happening to the entire region. |
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''Israeli and U.S. intelligence are concentrating hard on Iranian minorities, because they have no military solution for this problem. They want to disintegrate Iran into a few countries like the Soviet Union and that is not going to happen.'' [1] |
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Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Iran" |
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:Certain forces want civil war in Lebanon and Iraq and the whole Middle East. Guess who! |
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==Lebanese Resistance Against Israel== |
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"I have not the capability to edit anything about the lebanese history, but why there is no word about the lebanese resistance against Israel ? i'd like ask the editor of this page to add something about it. Thank you" <small>—''The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by'' [[User:152.81.9.158|152.81.9.158]] ([[User talk:152.81.9.158|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/152.81.9.158|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small><!--Inserted with Template:Unsigned--> --- comment moved from article. |
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== BloggingBeirut.com == |
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The site [http://www.bloggingbeirut.com BloggingBeirut.com] has been added to the references section several times, and subsequently removed by myself and others. I'm hoping we can reach a concensus on the appropriateness or inappropriateness of this link in the article. |
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My major concerns with adding this link are: |
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* It appears to be a personal blog, updated by a single user. |
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* Several other blogs have been removed as links in the past ([http://beirutspring.blogspot.com/ BeirutSpring.com], [http://beirut2bayside.blogspot.com/ Across the Bay], [http://www.beirut-diary.com Beirut-Diary.com], and [http://www.beirut-blog.de Beirut-Blog.de]) |
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The site does appear to have some nice photographs, and seems to be updated relatively frequently, so I'm hoping we can reach concensus on whether to add it or not. I'm going to be removing it in the meantime. [[User:George.Saliba|George Saliba]] 08:14, 9 February 2006 (UTC) |
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:This link was added by ananonymous user. Here we call it here a Link [[WP:SPAM|spam]]. The blog if it wasn't a major and renown one can't be used as a source in Wikipedia. Therefore the link is unnecessary. [[User:Cedar-Guardian|CG]] 09:32, 9 February 2006 (UTC) |
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:::Dear CG, if by Major blog, you mean a blog that is listed in the first page of just about every Google search of Lebanon and Beirut (you must understand how Google works if you are to understand the significance of this), then I advise you to retract your words. Thank you. And no, I'm not anonymous. -finkployd |
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::Is there are directory of Lebanon related blogs that we could link to instead? This way we don't have to play favorites. If there is no existing directory of Lebanon blogs, maybe a separate wikipedia page called "Lebanon Weblogs" is in order. How is this handled for other countries? This isn't a situation that is unique to the Lebanon article I suspect. --[[User:Bhouston|Ben Houston]] 13:43, 9 February 2006 (UTC) |
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:::I like this idea. I'm not sure what form it is best to take, as I'm quite new to Wikipedia still, but it sounds good on its face. I'm curious what finkployd's thoughts on this are. [[User:George.Saliba|George Saliba]] 01:45, 10 February 2006 (UTC) |
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::::Interesting idea, I concur with your thoughts George and Ben. Bloglists do exist, and a Wikipedia bloglist might have more credibility, so it's a good idea. However, what I've been told by visitors to [http://www.bloggingbeirut.com BloggingBeirut.com], is that their experiences with the site have given them a much more realistic view of Lebanon [avoiding the propaganda in newspapers and the touristific sites]. The purpose behind the site was to expose Lebanon as it is, and it has succeeded in doing that. Furthermore, with 300+ unique visitors a day, and growing, it's reaching quite a many people from around the world. Since I'm not making a penny off of it, and I'm hosting it on my own servers, with high res photos and all that, and it's not propaganda, I'd imagine I have a case for some form of altruism. What I'm trying to get at, is that exposure to such a site has been nothing but a positive contribution to raising awareness about the Lebanon that few see and fewer speak about. So why not allow it to grow further, and reach more. After all, I don't even identify myself, so it's not a matter of personal fame. -finkployd |
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:::::I still haven't had a chance to take a look at adding a List of Lebanese Blogs to Wikipedia, so if anyone does please post about it. The problem with blogs in general is they have single authors, with single points of view. When I read your statements like "more realistic view of Lebanon [avoiding the propaganda in newspapers and the touristific sites]" and "it's not propaganda, I'd imagine I have a case for some form of altruism", this causes me concern. The [[Wikipedia:NPOV|NPOV]] principle of Wikipedia may just cover articles, but when you link to blogs with singular authors you run the risk of exposing singular points of view. I'm not saying that your blog has a point of view, and I can understand that you don't believe you expose a point of view, but you always run that risk of such thing when you only have one person composing and screening work. [[User:George.Saliba|George Saliba]] 05:25, 13 February 2006 (UTC) |
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::Well, I'm the author of the site, and here's my take: I have yet to find a real source of Lebanese photojournalism on the web. All the Lebanese photography that I've seen has either been touristy, outdated, or just plain redundant. While the site is a blog, it is by no means a personal one, particularly as fewer than 1% of my posts are notably personal - the vast majority present some part, some alleyway, some perspective of Lebanon, through the lens of my camera. So Lebanon has a Temple of Jupiter, The Cedars, and Downtown... but I ask you, and I expect sincerety in your answer, is this really the essence of Lebanon? What is manyakeh, where is el Mechmech, do Lebanese celebrate Christmas (how?), what about Lebanese architecture, what about dating in lebanon, ski slopes?, et al. If you wanted to learn about Lebanon, not its history, its geography, or its politics, but Lebanon as Lebanese live it, I challenge you to find a more relevant site than [http://www.bloggingbeirut.com BloggingBeirut.com] Try googling for [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=manyakeh&btnG=Google+Search Manyakeh], or for [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=Beirut+International+Marathon&btnG=Search Beirut International Marathon], or [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=sunset+beirut&btnG=Search Sunset Beirut], or [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=ruins+beirut&btnG=Search Ruins Beirut], or [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=jezzine+photos&btnG=Search Jezzine Photos], or [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=fakra+photos&btnG=Search Fakra photos], or [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=gemmayze+photos&btnG=Search Gemmayze photos], or [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=brummana+photos&btnG=Search Brummana photos], or [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=chekka+photos&btnG=Search Chekka photos], or [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=beirut+air+pollution&btnG=Search Beirut Air Pollution], or [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=lebanon+quarries&btnG=Search Lebanon Quarries] [to name a few] -finkployd |
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:::On another note, could someone please tell me how this link, listed in the references: http://photos.eisenbach.at/voyages/lebanon/ is considered more appropriate than [http://www.bloggingbeirut.com BloggingBeirut.com]? |
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::::I'm not sure that it does. If it doesn't, feel free to remove it. [[User:George.Saliba|George Saliba]] 05:25, 13 February 2006 (UTC) |
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:::I agree with you on this. However, I would much rather see you publish some of your wonderful images into the Lebanon article, and articles about each of the subjects you listed than link to a personal blog (by personal I mean having a single author, not necessarily that every post is about you). Or maybe creating a gallery of all your images and linking to that rather than your blog? [[User:George.Saliba|George Saliba]] 05:25, 13 February 2006 (UTC) |
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Since my arguments have not been disputed for over five days, I am assuming a consensus has been reached, and will be re-adding [http://www.BloggingBeirut.com BloggingBeirut.com] to the list. pax -finkployd |
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:Hmm, I only count 3 days since I first posted here on the 9th. Regardless, I very much think that no concesus has been reached, as the only one who seems to believe that your article still belongs on the Lebanon page is you (or if anyone else does, they haven't posted about it yet). I'll let someone else make the decision to remove it or not however. [[User:George.Saliba|George Saliba]] 05:25, 13 February 2006 (UTC) |
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::George, you have to excuse me for I do not sleep much, so I count nights as days ;) Thank you for your comments. I'll get back to your shortly, as I must get some sleep now. |
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I agree with [[User:Bhouston|Ben Houston]] that we could create a list of Lebanon-related blogs, although I share the concerns of [[User:George.Saliba|George Saliba]] as most of them espouse very strong points of view. This blog in particular may be interesting, but I wouldn't include it as a main reference in the Links section. However, the material is interesting, so I hope that finkployd will '''be bold''' and use it in some of the Wikipedia Lebanon-related entries. |
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The "''updated daily''" comment is irrelevant and sounds like an advertisement, so I am going to delete the final line. |
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[[User:FrancescoMazzucotelli|FrancescoMazzucotelli]] |
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== Sights and Sounds: Updating the Main Page == |
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Sorry I removed the previous section added by me, I will update the Tourism section that I created in the main article with objective data from the old section removed here. [[User:LebanonChild|LebanonChild]] 22:49, 13 February 2006 (UTC) |
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== 10452km2 == |
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Can someone add something about this phrase or state of mind in military ranks (and other people) of Lebanon? |
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==History section== |
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This part of the article is massively long considering there is a subarticle devoted to it, I didn't check too deeply but there seems to be much replication in parts between these two articles. -- [[User:Sfnhltb|Sfnhltb]] 22:53, 4 April 2006 (UTC) |
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I would like to expand the part of the History section related to the Ottoman period. Can I do it on the main page or are you suggesting to use the [[Lebanon/Temp]] page? |
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Who is completely rewriting the article on that page? [[User:FrancescoMazzucotelli|FrancescoMazzucotelli]] |
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:I proposed the complete rewriting for everyone interested, so you are invited to contribute. About your addition to the History section, do wherever you like, but don't overwrite. Actually, the history section is very unbalanced: The Cedar revolution is hardly 6 months and it takes the biggest part of the section, while the 4000 years history are hardly one paragraph. [[User:Cedar-Guardian|CG]] 17:33, 6 April 2006 (UTC) |
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Yes and most unfortunately the historical section (more [[pseudohistorical]] than anything else) is entirely POV and biased towards supporters of the Phoenician claim. It seems that a number of Christian Lebanese are still insistent on claiming that they are descendands of a ethnic "group" which has not been around from thousands of years. Furthermore, at the time in which the Phoenicians did in-fact exist, they were not a simple homogenous "race" of people. This sort of talk reminds me of a short, Austrian man with a square moustache and a curly lock of hair on his forehead, who swung his fist at crowds and proclaimed his people's ethnic superiority and descent from a long-extinct people. |
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Be careful, the article is in need of serious repair. |
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[[User:Euganeo|Euganeo]] 03:59, 26 April 2006 (UTC) |
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== User 194.126.24.2 == |
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Can anyone verify anything this user puts in? This is the onylarticle he seems interested in, and he makes the same edits each day, most of which are PoV. I know next to nothing about Lebanon, but even I can recognise that most of his stuff is rather biased.[[User:HawkerTyphoon|HawkerTyphoon]] 22:20, 8 April 2006 (UTC) |
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:You are correct. Almost everything the user has added is extremely biased, and very little of it has any factual backing at all. [[User:George.Saliba|George Saliba]] 21:28, 8 April 2006 (UTC) |
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It looks like the user is here to express his/her disgust for the daily newspaper ''As-Safir'' and his/her predilection for ''An-Nahar''. It is a legitimate opinion, but this is not the right place to express it. Is it so difficult to understand? [[User:FrancescoMazzucotelli|FrancescoMazzucotelli]] 03:38, 10 April 2006 (UTC) |
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:In addition the user repeatedly changes the name of the President to "puppet President Debile Lahouss" (a politically-biased insult I believe), and incorrectly swaps the population balance (minority Christian to majority Christian). I've reverted back his changes, again. [[User:George.Saliba|George Saliba]] 10:32, 10 April 2006 (UTC) |
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==Skiing in Lebanon== |
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I think it would be a useful thing in the tourism section to mention that Lebanon has ski resorts that are attracting more and more tourists. I don't have too much information on this, but I think it still should be mentionned. A useful link to be added may also be www.skileb.com . Cheers |
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== Are Lebanese Arabs? == |
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I've ran into some people who argue the converse. Due to their phoenician descent and the major christian population, they say, the Lebanese shouldn't be considered Arab at all. Any credibility behind such claims? --[[User:195.229.242.54|195.229.242.54]] 04:40, 23 May 2006 (UTC) |
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:Not really. Arabs vary anyway and it's based upon the language they speak anyway. For example, many people of [[Berber]] descent in [[Algeria]] claim to be Arabs, but aren't likely to have Arab ancestry, that is from [[Arabia]]. The Lebanese probably do descend quite a bit from the Phoenicians as well as other invaders, but it's just too complicated to really designate them non-Arabs since many Lebanese will also gladly claim to be Arabs. It's usually the Christians who are more inclined not to though. [[User:Tombseye|Tombseye]] 05:21, 23 May 2006 (UTC) |
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NO..Lebanon is an Arab country..but the people are like Iran,Afghanistan,Pakistan,Turkey.. |
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Arabs are Semites..the others are Indo-European or Eurasian... |
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All the dark swarthy "Italian" looking people of Europe are NOT Arabs..or Jews/Hebrews(<-the people not the religion) or Gyspsies. |
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In the Middle East..many Indo-Europeans are Muslim and speak Arabic..but that alone doesn't make one an Arab.. |
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Matter of fact they are unwanted by the Arabs and often attacked and/killed..they hate eachother |
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This is why so much conflict in the Middle East and western people don't understand it..One group is seen as white(Aryans,Persians,Indo~europeans)..while the other is more of "ethnic" blood..kinky hair, darker skin..they are the opposite of us.. |
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the dark ones are the "good" people while the whites invaded and claimed everything including the religion and tried to Europeanized everything..they are seen as negatives or the bad people. |
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From Arabs point of view..Europe was Godless until after contact with Asia..and today they worship themselves and worldly goods in vain.--[[User:4.153.29.26|4.153.29.26]] 14:28, 18 July 2006 (UTC)Bhagi |
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OK OK, sorry my arab-friend, but you are complitely mistaken! first the arabs or semits are as well Indo-European !! Lebanese are Arabs like Portuguese or Spanish are Latins. Second the holy Koran teaches us to have respect for other people even if there religion is not the same! There are not bad or good people ! that's just crap ! you talk just like the most stupid of all politicians in this world " G.W.Bush" ! Excuse me but go and read the koran again. "especially " Surat el Bakra" where god teaches us the truth about the pad of god and his people. |
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Da Silva |
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Us Lebanese should not have to be described as "Arabs" if we don't want to be. I'm Lebanese and I do not consider myself to be an Arab. You may say, yes, it's because you're a Christian, but no, if you have been to Arab countries you will notice that a lot of them are exactly the same, but Lebanon is a completely different country. Unfortunately, we are officially categorised as "Arabs" although a lot of us do not like this label and do not like being called Arab! |
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30/08/06 |
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== Romanization == |
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From "Politics" section: |
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"This arrangement is part of the "National Pact" (al Mithaq al Watani)" |
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Can someone who knows Arabic add the Arabic for al "ithaq al Watani"? thanks.--[[User:Fox Mccloud|Fox Mccloud]] 21:58, 19 June 2006 (UTC) |
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Al Mithaq Al Watani means "the National Pact".--[[User:Edz 18|Edz 18]] 17:52, 9 July 2006 (UTC) |
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== Notre-Dame university? == |
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"Lebanon also hosts several prestigious universities, including the Lebanese University , The American University of Beirut, The Université Saint-Joseph, The Lebanese American University, and The Notre-Dame University". |
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The Notre-Dame university? |
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I have lived in Lebanon my whole life and I don't think I have ever heard of it. Furthermore I don't know anyone who has enrolled in it. |
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I think that if that's considered prestigious, another 30 universities can be added to the list. |
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Yes actually there is a notre-Dame unversity and it's better known as the NDU. As for the 30 other universities, I dont think they would be as prestigious as the ones mentioned (although I would add the Balamand university). --[[User:Edz 18|Edz 18]] 17:50, 9 July 2006 (UTC) |
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== "Tail wags"? == |
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I consider myself a fairly clever guy who is generally familiar with sayings, but what does this mean? If I knew what relationship this saying was meant to illustrate, I'd change it to something more appropriate; however, I do not know how hizbollah relates to Lebanese policy, so I cannot even caution a guess as to what "tail wagging" could possibly mean. In fact, this is the only mention of Hizballah in this article, and there is only brief, incidental coverage of Hizballah in the politics of Lebanon article. |
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For the sake of clarity, formality, and NPOV--since this term almost certainly carries some sort of connotation--can someone fix this? Either Hizballah's role as a "tail wagger," whatever that is, needs to be explained using more conventional language or this passing mention of Hizballah needs to be removed. I suspect that the former would be more appropriate, but I lack the subject knowledge to fix this particular case of poor, informal wording. If this has not been addressed in a few days, I'll take a whack at it, but it's best that someone else do it.--[[User:Smallwhitelight|Smallwhitelight]] 12:29, 12 July 2006 (UTC) |
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== map is too smalll! == |
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subject says it all, it's hard to keep the middle east countries apart on this tiny map. |
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== Lebanon's Name == |
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The name Lebanon does not derive from Arabic. Long before Arabic became the dominant language of the region, the land was known in Hebrew as Levanon, from the Hebrew root Lavan meaning white. Clearly LVN is a common root in semitic languages, but to suggest it derives from Arabic is misleading. I have looked up the colour "white" in Arabic and it seems to be "Abyad" but in Hebrew it is Lavan. |
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Not sure what you're trying to say.. |
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Arabs are Hebrews..before Islam..they where Jews, |
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Now anyone can convert and not only become a Jew but claim land that isn't meant for them. |
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All Hebrews spoke Aramaic..the changes in language..I guess is "progress" umm something is always lost in the translation. |
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In response, I must add that I am unsure as to what YOU are trying to say. To say that Arabs before Islam were Jews is more than a bit strange. It is true that the Jews spoke Aramaic 2000 or so years ago, but then again so did the majority of peoples that populated the ancient middle east. When the Arab speaking Arabs conquered the lands of the middle east, Arabic became the Majority language of the region. Long before the use of Arabic, in what we today call Lebanon, the land was already known by names based on the root LVN such as HaLevanon in Hebrew. I was questioning the comment that said the name Lebanon derived from the Arabic, this is incorrect. The root LVN is common to most Semitic languages and probably has its origins in a proto-semitic language, therefore it is my contention that saying that Lebanon derives from the Semitic root LVN is more honest than saying that it derives from Aramaic, Hebrew, Arabic etc etc. Your point about conversion and claiming land etc, is simply a cheap political point totally unrelated to the subject of the name of Lebanon. |
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==Er...== |
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Arabic has more than one word for white you know. For example Laban and Haleeb are names given for Milk. |
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.. Laban means yoghurt. 30/08/06. |
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== Lebanon == |
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This is the article about Lebanon. Everything to do with Lebanon, not just politics and history. The current Israeli attack doesn't really belong in this article. Of coures, if in a year's time or even six months' time it looks like it was an important turning point in Lebanese history, then it can go in; but at the moment it doesn't look like that. There are all sorts of more important things that aren't covered or are skimmed over. Let's keep a sense of proportion here, and avoid the idea that "it just happened, so it must go in the article". Take a look at the [[United Kingdom]] article for a far more professional and balanced approach to dealing with historic events, recent and otherwise. [[User:Palmiro|Palmiro]] | [[User talk:Palmiro|Talk]] 13:43, 13 July 2006 (UTC) |
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== Like i said. == |
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In response to "Er..". I am no expert in Arabic, and I am sure you are right that there is more than one word for white, that is why i said the root LVN is likely to be common to all semitic languages. |
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== Oops! == |
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I think I'm dangerously close to the [[WP:3RR|three revision rule]] here, if not in technical violation of it. If I have violated it, I apologize. I'm removing myself from editing this article for 24 hours so that I don't run afoul of this rule. -- [[User:SwissCelt|SwissCelt]] 02:53, 14 July 2006 (UTC) |
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== Question == |
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why is lebanon's recent military history listed before its statistics and cultural information? I realize they had a major impact on shaping the nation but it is somewhat insulting. -- ([[User:Zerton|Zerton]] 17:52, 15 July 2006 (UTC)) |
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== Israeli terror attack 1968 == |
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Seems to me that the 1968 Israeli surprise terror attack on the Lebanese airport and blowup 13 civilian aircraft should be at least mentioned as the first time Israel attacked the country. |
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----this article is supposedly being completely redone so maybe it will be inculded next time |
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I changed the phrase "Aramaic" to "Semitic" because there is much evidence from Ancient Egyptian texts and others, that long before Aramaic was the dominant language of the area, the land was known by many different forms based on the root LBN. |
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== POV == |
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Since this is a talk page, and not an article that I'm contributing to, I'd like to hereby express a POV biased towards the innocent people of Lebanon, including a friend who might not talk to me one day when I log into my Messenger account. [http://www.terroronlebanon.org/][http://www.israeltolebanon.info] [[User:Dessydes|Dessydes]] 18:33, 21 July 2006 (UTC) |
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Please focus on the article. This isnt a chat room. [[User:Ronan.evans|Ronan.evans]] 02:21, 23 July 2006 (UTC) |
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== The Israeli-lebanon conflict premices and timeline have to be done correctly. It is full of errors. == |
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'''The Israeli-lebanon conflict premices and timeline have to be done correctly. It is full of errors or bias.''' |
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If anyone of '''objective''' can apply for the job, that would be nice. |
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==Re Lebanese Rocket Attacks== |
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I strongly believe the rocket attacks should be left out of the article, as it detracts from the main focuse of what the article should be about - the city itself - and is only leading to what appears to be continuous vandalism of the page by both sides trying trying to present their point of views. Perhaps when the current conflict has resolved itself a small note can be added, but I think at the time being it should be removed. |
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[edit] |
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==I Agree with the above posting. However here is the status of Hizbullah amongst Non Americans== |
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Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization. Only some countries like the United States say so, NOT THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY many countries call Israel a fascist state. These countries include non Muslim countries as well. So should we refer Israel as a fascist state too in wikipedia. |
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==Do you hear what goes on from Fox news; The Jewish owned press in many countries refer to Hezbollah as a terrorist organization== |
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Much of the Western News media is Jewish owned. In other non Jewish owned media Jews are predominant in the higher echelons of management. It is here we hear Hezbollah referred as a terrorist organization. The Bush Blair agenda also refer to Hezbollah as terrorism, but wikipedia does not follow the agenda of political leaders even if they are from high and mighty countries. |
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The BBC used to refer to Hezbollah as a terrorist organization until the readers challenged the BBC to prove it. Now the BBC started now to refer to Hezbollah as a militant organization. |
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The US Government actually calls Palestinians fighting the military boot of Israel as terrorists. It calls the resistance in Iraq terrorist. I call Iran terrorist. Russia was called the evil empire by Ronald Reagan. However the CIA with their rendition flights and torture programs is just called a Agency |
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[edit] |
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If we follow the Americans and call Hizbullah terrorist then The Israel Air force pilots are Surgeons |
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What do we call the people who drop the huge daisy cutter bombs from F16s on children the Jewish press should call them surgeons as they make surgical strikes, and give employment to hundreds of Arab surgeons? |
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ALSO SOLDIERS ARE NEVER KIDNAPPED. IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE SOLDIERS ARE ALWAYS CAPTURED YOU CAN KIDNAP A CIVILIAN BUT NEVER A SOLDIER |
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ISRAEL HAS OVER A THOUSAND KIDNAPPED CIVILANS FROM LEBONON IN ITS JAILS AND HAS CAPTURED MANY HIZBULLAH SOLDIERS |
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Israel has over fourteen thousand Palestinians in detention for many years. Most of these can be said to be kidnapped as they are kept without trial |
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:?! Aren't you biased yourself? I agree that Western media is biased, but I state that Arab media is biased at least as much. The only people in the world that appear to think that there is a huge secret (Jewish) conspiracy against the Arab world appear to be Arabs themselves. Honestly, people in the West rather just don't care about the Arab world, want to leave it alone and just want to think about living their own live. Though then some in the West perceive distrust from some Arab voices, interpret it as hostile and therefore want to protect themselves from the hostilities. Some Arabs notice this tendency for protection from the West, interpret it as hostile and want to protect themselves. We get two blocks of media blaming the other and that is were the root of the conflict is. Yes the West is guilty of bias, but the Arab world is guilty as well. As long as we cannot respect the other as ourselves, this conflict will not be gone. I as a Westerner can admit my media is biased and I am willing to respect Arabs (that respect me) like myself. I just hope that others want to follow, Westerners AND Arabs alike. |
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[edit] |
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==We Jews unlike the Nazis do not distort or rewrite history, we also must not get emotional about the facts== |
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While not going into the rights or wrongs, of why the Arabs of Isarel fled to the Lebanon. The fact remains that all Northern Irael cities are now a Jewish city. We will not try and pretend the Arabs did not exist and deny their existence. We have our own Holocaust deniers so what happened did happen and nothing can reverse it and we do not deny we forced them out. Haifa is now a beautiful city of Jews from Germany and America. Israel is an immigrant country and nearly all the population are first generation or second generation immigrants. We know we did not move into an empty land, nobody can deny this, the refugee camps of the Palestinians with 2.5 million refugees bear testimony to the fact that the land was not empty when we moved in. But all this is in the past. Three are many wrongs in History look at the plight of the Red Indians, Black slaves transported from Africa, AND of course our own Holocaust. Fifty years ago IS in the past, its history, FULL STOP. |
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Ben Cohen |
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[edit] |
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:True enough Ben, The past IS over, but hopefully we can all grow by heeding its warnings. The chain of associated events (and some unassociated) that you cite all have one thing in common - the slaughter of innocent people. Lebanon as an independant state is suffering such a slaughter RIGHT NOW, as i type. That the state of Lebanon is used as a pawn by groups who's main interest is to continue the conflict, does not really justify the slaughter of innocents, no matter how much political spin is used. At the moment both your country and mine (the U.K.) are behaving shamefully and as citizens our aquiescence simply adds to the injustice. To use an historical simile, we are guilty of averting our eyes as the state machinery is used against civilians, were this the weimar republic, we all know where that can lead and that the only solution is to act with a conscience in favour of humanity. [[User:DavidParfitt|DavidP]] 14:37, 23 July 2006 (UTC) |
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Is this supposed to be satire? Jews are the biggest propagandists out there, even more so then the soviets were. You are waging a religious war for the sake of a few metres of land you stole from the arabs anyway. The fact Israeli military sources told the civilians to leave the area, then targetted airstrikes on them on bridges and roads out when people fled in terror was no differant to the behaviour of the Nazis in Eastern Europe. It wouldnt surprise me if the UN outpost was taken out so Israels own einzatzgroupen and torture squads can move in and rape and pillage anyone surving. Israel is a terrorist nation, anyone that supports it, is a terrorist... by your own logic of saying the same of lebanese. The only jews I have any respect for, are those that have publically stood out and decried what the zionist serpent has been up to. To those guys, kudos, you have proved yourself worthy of using the term humanity. To the remaining 90%, you are shekel loving racist zionazis, and your days are numbered. Your sickening, corrupt, society destroying behaviour in America and Europe is unforgivable. Surely as a people you realise that the reason you have been pushed out of every nation you ever tried to emigrate to throughout history was because of your selfish greed, corruption and barbaric treatment of others for personal gain. You are an abomination that blights this planet and it sickens me I have to share it with the likes of you. |
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Amen to that..bro |
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==Yeah Yeah== |
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Your neighbour slaps your kid in the face. You come home in the evening, start your bulldozer and flatten his house,killing them and a dozen other families. On your way back you also destroy a grocery store and run over an old lady just to sooth yourself. What Israel is doing now is pretty much the same thing. It just makes Hezbollah's racket attacks look more legitimate |
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''''''BIG mistake''''''---- |
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Israel is making a BIG mistake. The israeli bombings only provided hezbollah with more popular support. At first the lebanese people hated hezbollah for this "act of war" because it utterly destroyed a very promising touristic season which the poor lebanese people waited for desperately. I myself wanted israel get rid of those F***** chiite extremists who do nothing but ignore my country's interests and undermine my governement's authority. But is barbarism really the way to do it? |
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==Weapons Used In Lebanons Destruction== |
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This weaponry for the above destruction was supplied to the terrorists by company called Raytheon, which is based in Massachusetts. They manufacture the Tomahawk missile, the Sidewinder, a number of other high-tech missiles. These missiles have very sophisticated targeting components -- heat-seeking, they're interfaced with GPS for much targeted attacks. |
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Lockheed Martin is another company it supplies the F16 Aircraft to the terrorist and other systems to deliver these weapons. |
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Boeing is another major corporation. They manufacture all sorts of planes: the F-18 fighter plane, the F-14. |
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Last week the United States decided to sell $120 million worth of jet fuel to the terrorist Washington has been asked to speed up a shipment of precision bombs sold as part of a deal with the terrorists last year. They are rushing to send these |
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The funding for the terrorists is more then three billion dollars a year, It comes directly from U.S. taxpayers in the form of foreign military financing, which is transferred to the terrorists, and then turns right back around and goes to Lockheed Martin, Boeing or Raytheon. |
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* Maybe Walmart, Exxon and other "evil" companies are involved too, but that isn't really very useful to an encyclopedia article about Lebanon, is it? [[User:Galar71|galar71]] 22:21, 23 July 2006 (UTC) |
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== Suggestion for clarification == |
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I came here for edification. After reading the information repeatedly, I found it difficult to identify exactly the opposing groups that were described in the section titled "Beginning of the War". |
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The text in question states.. "Initially, fighting began between these Palestinians (referred to as "anti-Lebanese militias" by some) and the indigenous Lebanese "leftists" (the communists and socialist parties). As the fighting intensified, the sides involved became more distinct. On one side was the Christian resistance led first by Bachir Gemayel and later by Samir Geagea. The other side comprised a coalition of Palestinian refugees, Sunni Muslim, and Druze forces..." |
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I'm confused. Was the Christian resistance part of the Palestinian side, or the Lebanese side? The first sentence describes the Lebanese as "communists and socialist parties", but later indicates that the Christiancs are the opposite side of the Palestinians. |
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Forgive me for my ignorance, but that's why I came here to learn. Clarification would be helpful. |
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Thanks. |
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== Semi-protection == |
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I have semi-protected this article. This means that it cannot be edited by anonymous users or by newly-created accounts. This has been necessary because of anonymous users (or perhaps just one) consistently ignoring our [[WP:NPOV|NPOV]] policy. - [[User:Mark|Mark]] 01:25, 24 July 2006 (UTC) |
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==User Mark Above posting "semi - protection" : Stop acting like an officious Policeman of Wikipedia== |
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I note that you are a law student. Well I think that your protection of the Lebanon page is not only restrictive of the ethos freedom of expression of wikipedia but ultra varies to your role as administrator of the wiki project. |
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Naturally the evens in Lebanon are causing considerable world wide interest as well as an humanitarian crises this also is the cause of interest in the wikipedia page on Lebanon, two countries seem to be in midst of a war. |
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Wikipedia editors from divergent points of view edit this page with an incresed frequency as it is topical news. By frequent edits from both sides a common consensus is arrived at which becomes the prevailing concensus. |
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You have now imposed an almost draconian censorship of this wiki page doing it at this time I feel makes you unfit to be an administrator of wikipedia because its an abuse of power, I have recorded this event against your record for the community to judge I have had e mail from Lebanese citizens who now cannot contribute to this page. The only mitigating circumstance is your inexperience and immaturity. |
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You may be aware that there was a campaign by supporters of Israel mostly Jewish e mail lobby associations to distort the content of wikipedia to a Jewish point of view. |
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This campaign usually follows Israel and USA foreign policy. The Jewish Wikipedia lobby demonize Iran Syria and Hezbollah while justifying the actions of Israel foreign policy. Removal of any adverse editorial on the founders of Israel demonizing the leadership of Arab countries etc. |
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There is also subtle distortion of history particularity in regards to the Palestinian conflict. In order to counter this organized and as such formidable onslaught on the neutrality of wikipedia Volunteers are keeping a record of hundreds of such pages and a report will be published later. |
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It is essential that wikipedia reflects a true world view |
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Even though you seem to have a Jewish name I trust you are not part of this campaign. |
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: I couldn't disagree more. Your comments are anti-semitic and the edits are for the most part horrifically PoV. You can't demoise anything on Wikipedia without sources - and I'm afraid to say that two entire continents view Hezbollah as a terorist group. Israel's actions are not justified, but neither is calling the Israelis what several ip addresses have called them. If eople feel strongly enough that Israel needs badmouthing, '''this is not the place to do it'''. [[User:HawkerTyphoon|HawkerTyphoon]] 12:44, 24 July 2006 (UTC) |
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<small>(Cross-posted from [[User talk:Mark]]):</small> |
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Hello. I recognise that it is very important to ensure an accurate and unbiased reporting is made of the events going on in the Middle East. Reports of any particular group conspiring to subvert this neutral point of view policy concerns me greatly, I assure you. |
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If you are the contributor who made edits such as [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Lebanon&diff=65464294&oldid=65463761 this] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Lebanon&diff=65465805&oldid=65465492 this], then I am afraid you are the very reason the article has been semi-protected. Calling a particular party in a conflict 'terrorist' is generally frowned upon on Wikipedia because it ''prima facie'' violates our [[WP:NPOV|neutral point of view policy]]. It implies a value judgment that the so-called 'terrorist' is inherently in the wrong. We don't want a Jewish ''or'' a Lebanese point-of-view for our article. We want a ''neutral'' point of view. |
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Also, if you were responsible for the above-linked edits, you should also be made aware that edit summaries like "HELP LEBANON THE JEWS ATTACK THIS PAGE MR DANIEL IS ONE HE WISHES THIS PAGE NOT TO MENTION THE HOLOCAST TAKING PLACE HE DISTORTS THE HISTROY OF THE CONFLICT THE JEWS ARE OUT IN FORCE CHANGING WIKIPEDI" are not appropriate. |
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You refer to Wikipedia's process of reaching a common consensus that resembles a neutral point of view. This is a fair representation of how it ordinarily works. This semi-protection of the article simply means that only established Wikipedia editors may edit the article. We have many hundreds (probably thousands) of active, established editors. I trust that they will be able to help keep our article on Lebanon neutral and unbiased in the short term before the semi-protection is lifted. If, however, you feel in the future that you have found such systematic pro-Israeli bias has been allowed to permeate the article and shift it away from a neutral point of view, I encourage you to bring your concerns to me, in addition to your many other avenues of bringing community attention to the matter. |
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The article on [[Lebanon]] will likely be unprotected in time. When it does become unprotected, I ask that you remember our neutral point of view policy. If you wish to counter a bias one way, it is not good to simply twist the article around and skew it completely the opposite way. The only way is to present it from a neutral, middle ground. |
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In relation to your keeping a record of my actions in relation to this article, I welcome this move. Accountability for administrative actions on Wikipedia is not a bad thing. |
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Should you have any more concerns or queries, I am readily contactable on my [[User talk:Mark|talk page]], or via the "Email this user" link. - [[User:Mark|Mark]] 13:28, 24 July 2006 (UTC) |
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== Country Codes == |
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I would like to see the Country Infobox modified to include the various ISO-3166 codes (ISO-2, ISO-3, ISO-NR) and the FIPS code. |
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== == Impending deletion of Lebanese musician page == == |
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Some editors here might care that the (terrible) page on [[Nourhanne]] has been flagged for deletion; improving it (a lot) would save it. — <span style="font-family: Tahoma;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">[[User:SMcCandlish|SMcCandlish]]</span> [[[User_talk:SMcCandlish|talk]]] [[[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|contrib]]]</span> <span style="color: #990000; font-weight: bold;">ツ</span> 21:48, 24 July 2006 (UTC) |
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==Stop calling Hezbullah terroist: the view of the people of Lebanon== |
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We Lebanese, do not regard the resistance forces of Hizbullah as militias, as referred to in the UN resolution, let alone any kind of terrorist organisation. Our resistance accomplished a major national mission by forcing Israeli troops to withdraw from most Lebanese territory in 2000 after 22 years of occupation. Since then there has been intense national debate about how Lebanon can defend itself in future once the resistance has achieved the liberation of the remaining occupied Lebanese land (the Shaba'a farms area) and the release of Lebanese detainees. |
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The Lebanese people's support for the resistance was demonstrated by the fact that Hizbullah and its allies won more seats in the 2005 elections, following the Syrian withdrawal, than when Syrian troops were still in the country. That is why Israel is now targeting civilians. |
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In the context of the continued occupation, detention of prisoners and repeated Israeli attacks and incursions into Lebanese territory, the capture of the Israeli soldiers was entirely legitimate. The operation was fully in line with the Lebanese ministerial declaration, supported in parliament, that stressed the right of the resistance to liberate occupied Lebanese territory, free prisoners of war and defend Lebanon against Israeli aggression. International law also allows peoples and states to take action to protect their citizens and territory. The Israeli onslaught is aimed not only at liquidating the resistance and destroying the country's infrastructure but at intervening in Lebanese politics and imposing conditions on what can be agreed. |
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NOT ALL LEBANESE SUPPORT THE TERRORISTS OF HEZBOLLAH. NOBODY GAVE YOU THE RIGHT TO SPEAK IN THE NAME OF ALL LEBANESE. |
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The Speaker of Parliament, the head of the Druze, the President, Amal, the heads of the Orthodox Church, the COmmunist Party of Lebanon, Aoun, the Patriotic Movement, the relgious heads of the Sunni Muslims, the relgious heads of the SHia Muslims, and many more have all expressed full support for Hezbollah even Hariri Inc. and Jumbat, being the populasists they are have shut their critique. The majory, mean over 80% of Lebanon suppport Hezbollah and the Resistance to Israeli aggresion... |
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[[User:69.196.164.190|69.196.164.190]] |
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''"The Lebanese people's support for the resistance was demonstrated by the fact that Hizbullah and its allies won more seats in the 2005 elections, following the Syrian withdrawal, than when Syrian troops were still in the country. That is why Israel is now targeting civilians."'' |
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'''Can you honestly say that the election of Hezbollah members in 2005 was a show of support? I believe that it wasn't without controversy and false promises that were never followed through by Hezbollah that won them those seats. I should also point out that it has been widely reported that Hezbollah went ahead and started this controversy with Israel without the support or knowledge of the Lebanese goverment! This doesn't even begin to speak for what many Lebanese civilians in the country and around the WORLD think of Hezbollah. ''' |
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==Isarel Prisoners== |
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There are between 645 and 800 Arab prisoners held in "administrative detention" in sub-standard Israeli jails. None of these people have been accused, tried or convicted of any crime yet Israel continues to hold them in jail. This is one of the reasons for the current problems in Lebanon. When the world, particularly the UN wakes up to this abuse of human rights - they should demand the release of the non-convicted and it is probably likely that Hezbollah will release the soldiers held. |
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==More On Israel prisoners== |
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Held withouttrial and often kidnapped by force |
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lthough Israel's army is gradually transferring authority for jails over to civil authority, it still holds 1,078 prisoners, including 105 in administrative detention and 28 youths aged under 18, B'Tselem says. |
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Figures collated by Palestinians vary slightly from the Israeli tallies, but only slightly: the PLO's negotiations department says 9,400 Palestinians are currently in all Israeli jails, 800 of those in administrative detention. |
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Those small differences are as close as the two sides come to agreement on the issue of prisoners. While Palestinian officials call their detainees "political prisoners", Israel says that some 70% of those behind bars have "blood on their hands". |
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Palestinian officials also criticise the conditions inside Israeli prisons, describing them as "far below minimum standards"; Israel's prison authority says its security prisoners receive the "highest level" of treatment. |
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What is a |
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< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon/Temp >?? |
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[[User:Hopiakuta|Hopiakuta]] 02:33, 26 July 2006 (UTC) |
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:I moved it to '''[[Talk:Lebanon/temp]]''', per [[Wikipedia:Subpages]]. [[Lebanon/Temp]] will probably soon be deleted following a [[WP:AfD]] (Temp pages are not allowed in main [[Wikipedia:namespace|namespace]]). I don't take part in the debates, but I thought the [[Talk:Lebanon/temp#Administrative divisions|list of administrative divisions]] rather neat. --[[User:Francis Schonken|Francis Schonken]] 08:35, 15 August 2006 (UTC) |
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== 2006 Events == |
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1.5.1 Precursor to the violence. |
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I question the inclusion of this section which consists of 7 paragraphs, not one of which has anything to do with Lebanon! |
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--[[User:Dguertin|DAG]] 00:20, 27 July 2006 (UTC) |
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Should this section really be included in an article on Lebanon and should it be titled 'precursor' when the two conflicts can be regarded as distinct? If we are going to claim that the killing of Palestinian officials and civilians was the precursor to this violence then we need to provide evidence of a causal link. Given that there are other factors leading to the conflict, such as the detention of prisoners, the focus on the events in Gaza seems inappropriate. |
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== Current Situation == |
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In this section there is tendentious usage and plain errors. |
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“On 12 July 2006, Hezbollah's armed wing militants crossed into Israel and captured two Israeli soldiers.” A fairer usage would replace “armed wing militants” with “militia”, because that is what they properly are. They fight in uniform, in organized formations, and have a recognizable command structure. Also, in the interest of fairness and even handedness, and to inform the reader, the sentence would benefit from a final clause explaining why, e.g. “... captured two Israeli soldiers, as a bargaining chip for the release of kidnapped Lebanese citizens.” |
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These “militants” are residents of Southern Lebanon and citizens of the Republic of Lebanon, and they and their ancestors have been there for centuries. To call them militants, given the seven bashings Lebanon has taken at Israel’s hands over the last 58 years, is gravely disrespectful to both them and to Wikipedia as a source of reliable information. “Militants” is an opinion, whereas militia is a fact. |
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“The indiscriminant and ineffective volley of Qassam, Katyusha and RAAD missiles from Southern Lebanon have only claimed the lives of over 30 Israelis, 2 Israeli Arabs and has wounded over 400 others.” |
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Notice the subtle distinction here: “30 Israelis, 2 Israeli Arabs.” Let me rephrase it: “30 Germans, 2 German Jews.” The Qassam missile is a home-made Palestinian rocket. |
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On political matters, and in particular matters related to Israel, Wikipedia is being used to peddle the same subtle disinformation as peddled by the pro-Israel international media. |
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==The above posting is very good, I agree, there is raceism against the Arabs consider this extract from a wiki page on Haifa== |
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"The city has been predominately Arab for the 800 years and pre-1947; however, over 85,000 Arabs fled to Lebanon. Haifa is now the home of a large Jewish population and a small Arab population as well as some members of the Bahia community who come and worship at their shrine located in Haifa. Arabs comprise approximately 10% of the population of Haifa. The Arab settlement in Haifa is subject to the City Council's policy of separate but equal development of both communities which gives Arabs their own schools and hospitals their own designated part of the city where these people live, moreover Haifa Arabs are allowed to build Mosques and have their own cultural centers, playgrounds etc". |
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==Bashing & Thrashing== |
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2 Israel soldiers are captured so Lebanon gets a bashing, so now that 4 UN soldiers are killed should the world community give Israel a thrashing |
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== Unprotection == |
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I have removed the semi-protection from this article. I trust that contibutors to this article - anonymous and registered alike - will work together to present a neutral point of view in this article. - [[User:Mark|Mark]] 08:29, 28 July 2006 (UTC) |
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==Excuse me but Israel was the one that crossed the border== |
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Please look up where the ISraeli soilders were captured...it was in South Lebanon. |
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Check |
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http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m24913&hd=0&size=1&l=e |
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http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=COO20060720&articleId=2767 |
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http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=FRA20060725&articleId=2813 |
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http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/hezbollah_soldiers.html |
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http://www.forbes.com/technology/feeds/ap/2006/07/12/ap2873051.html |
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http://uruknet.info/?p=m25034&hd=0&size=1&l=e |
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http://www.voltairenet.org/article142056.html |
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These links themselves have links to even more significant sources... |
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Also two of those sites are world famous for their work, by leading experts and adacemics. Two of those links also had other links on them, plus one of the verifications is The Agence France-Presse (AFP), one of the three largest news agencies in the world...not to mention the Associated Press and the Hindustan Times. |
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I also want you to note that the Israeli media has proven to be censored and used for propaganda purposes...all their reports of advancement into Lebanon have turned out to be bogus, plus their claims of a Saudi fatwa against Hezbollah. |
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Or even reading this says it all; |
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http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1153291980307&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull |
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I noticed that there is a lot of pro-Israeli rhetoric on the site that is trying to give the world a false image of the attacks on Lebanon and Lebanese civilians. |
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God Bless |
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[[User:69.196.164.190|69.196.164.190]] |
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while this is all rather unproven polemic. i wnat to respond: |
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exempt of the second linked article: |
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"Johnstone did not explain why the Palestinian attack on an Israeli army post was an escalation, while the Israeli raid into Gaza the previous day was not. Both were similar actions: violations of a neighbour’s territory." |
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-->Palestina is not a country. They refuse to take the status of a country. |
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1: It would give the actual borders a more permanent meaning. |
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2: Countries can violate international law |
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==A reminder of where we are== |
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This is an encyclopaedia, not the soap box in Hyde Park for political grand-standing. If you can't discuss this issue without clenching your fists, don't contribute to the article. |
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:::Nice of you make that reminder...please remind all the Israeli editors. The truth is still the truth. |
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==request== |
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It is very clear that regarding a variety of issues, many of us are very opinionated, including myself. We, frequently, find ourselves posting our political perspectives on the articles. |
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I, hereby, request & propose that there would be one, or several, wikiprojects designed to be where we would debate. Each such debate page should be tied to similar debate pages, on similar issues. Each such page, should, as well, be tied to the corresponding article pages, in appropriate clusters. |
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In this format, pages describing Israel, Palestine, Lebanon, North Africa, Southwest Asia, as far as Bangladesh, Islam, energy-policy, et al, might all be connected to politic pages in various corresponding clusters. |
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How would you modify, evolve, this proposal?? |
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Thank You. |
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[[User:Hopiakuta|Hopiakuta]] 06:51, 29 July 2006 (UTC) |
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:Wouldn't there be considerable overlap with [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Countering systemic bias]]? Although I think it's a nice idea myself. There isn't enough debates in WikiProjects. [[User:MichaelBillington|MichaelBillington]] 07:32, 29 July 2006 (UTC) |
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==further: proposal== |
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Why would you want to add more duties for that page & section when they are not even doing what they claim to be doing?? |
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What I have proposed is quite different from the failed "mission" thereof anyhow. Although, when I had written, I had hoped that that fact would, in fact, be one of the many debates. |
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Overall, the purpose of what I'd written, & has been misinterpreted, was designed specifically to deal with the oft perceived problem on this |
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---- |
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Lebanon |
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---- |
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discussionpage. On this page, as well as many other pages tied to caustic-issue-articles, people frequently complain that the debate is off-topic, as attempting to settle the larger issue of the subject[s] of the articles, rather than correcting the articles directly. |
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Well, in that sense, your comment is not relevant to my proposal, nor is it, at all, relevant to |
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---- |
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Lebanon. |
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---- |
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Furthermore, regarding the failed page that you recommend, & all other related failed policy pages: |
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They have not diminished bias, discriminination, oppression, racism, classism, handicappism, sufficiemtly to make them worthy to me. |
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There is so much bias, such a deletion-inclination, that I discourage anyone from creating articles. Supposedly there is all of this about attempting editing first; however, that's rarely practiced. Only "good" people get to create. |
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Anyhow, that has little to do with my herein proposal, to which you do misleadingly respond. |
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---- |
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My proposal had been that wherever difficult articles lead to spirrited political discussionpages, that those articles would lead to wikiprojects designed to accomodate that political-overload. |
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Now, if you would respond on-topic to that, & how it would affect the Lebanon-article, the Lebanon-discussion, & similarly political-articles, I would appreciate that. I am attempting to improve these by suggesting an outlet-project for some of this overflow. |
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Thank You. |
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[[User:Hopiakuta|Hopiakuta]] 14:32, 29 July 2006 (UTC) |
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Israel is a tiny Jewish nation surrouded by wealthy large Muslim Arab nations.All it wants is to live quietly and alone in peace.Muslim terrorists hiding behind the are the progenitor of global disaster.All Hezbollah and Hamas had to do was return the hostages and this hell wouldn't have been unleashed.Israel is defending its border from the murderous bombs being launched from Lebanon.The Lebanese government couldn't stop Hizbollah,the UN couldnt do it,so Israel has to do it for themselves. |
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==Wiki Policy== |
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Plese do not delete an entire talk page |
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I smaks of censorship there seems to b epeople here who do not wish discussions hete to be read |
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==Many Lebanese have posted here please do not delete this talk page whoever you are== |
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==Talk Page - Amazed to see People constantly delete this page== |
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==Talk Page Perhaps this is the reson this page gets deleted or reverted== |
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You may be aware that there was a campaign by supporters of Israel mostly Jewish e mail lobby associations to distort the content of wikipedia to a Jewish point of view. |
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This campaign usually follows Israel and USA foreign policy. The Jewish Wikipedia lobby demonize Iran Syria and Hezbollah while justifying the actions of Israel foreign policy. Removal of any adverse editorial on the founders of Israel demonizing the leadership of Arab countries etc. |
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There is also subtle distortion of history particularity in regards to the Palestinian conflict. In order to counter this organized and as such formidable onslaught on the neutrality of wikipedia Volunteers are keeping a record of hundreds of such pages and a report will be published later. |
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It is essential that wikipedia reflects a true world view |
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==Kfar Shouba Hills== |
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Can someone tell me where these are and what their current political significance is? [[User:Adam Carr|Adam]] 04:35, 10 August 2006 (UTC) |
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:It's in the [[Shebaa Farms]] region - read the article for the political situation. [[User:Okedem|okedem]] 06:13, 10 August 2006 (UTC) |
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== changes - history to 1943 == |
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I rewrote the history section for events up to 1943. The section was incomplete and got even basic information wrong about events leading to "independence" in 1943. If the information gets reverted away because of edit wars, it would be great if someone remembered to recover it later. [[User:168.127.0.51|168.127.0.51]] 18:39, 10 August 2006 (UTC) |
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== The UN people killed == |
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This paragraph: |
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"On 25 July 2006, four unarmed UN observers from Austria, Canada, China and Finland, died after their UN post in the town of Khiam was hit by an Israeli air strike, a day before the Rome-summit which was called to find a solution for the crisis. Hezbollah resistance fighters were not even close to the UN post. UN peacekeepers in south Lebanon contacted Israeli troops 10 times before an Israeli bomb killed four of them, an initial UN report says. The UN report says each time the UN contacted Israeli forces, they were assured the firing would stop. [13] Kofi Annan considered the death of the observers to be premeditated, which led to strong indignation from Israel. Following U.S. pressures, the UN Council didn't condemn the Israeli attack on the UN observer post but settled for expressing its shock at the bombing. China, which had one of its peacekeepers killed in the air strike, had wanted a stronger statement condemning the attack." |
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Does not strike me as too NPOV. So, I would appreciate it if it could be rewritten to include cites to prove the following:<br> |
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a) "their UN post in the town of Khiam was hit by an Israeli air strike"<br> |
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b) "Hezbollah resistance fighters were not even close to the UN post"<br> |
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c) "Kofi Annan considered the death of the observers to be premeditated"<br> |
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Also, even assuming these are correct (they are not according to the media sources I choose to watch, but media is often biased), this paragraph should be rewritten, as to me it reads as though it was written by a child trying to make a point, rather than as an accurate description of facts. Apologies in advance if whoever wrote this paragraph is reading these lines. |
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[[User:217.132.106.247|217.132.106.247]] 20:11, 10 August 2006 (UTC)Antrax |
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:This one about Kofi Annan is true, though somewhat misleading. He did say it seems to him like it was on purpose, but I believe he later retracted that statement, or at least didn't follow up on it (it was called a "snap judgement" by some). It always amazes me when someone makes such a claim - Israel is not stupid, and attacking the UN on purpose is extremely bad for Israel's international standing... Anyways, here are some sources on that: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/25/AR2006072500260.html one], [http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/25/mideast.main/index.html two], [http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/07/israeli_airstrike_hits_un_outpost_annan_says_deliberate/ three]. [[User:Okedem|okedem]] 09:18, 11 August 2006 (UTC) |
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::Thanks. Now these just have to be inserted into the article, and some validation needs to be found for b above - I couldn't find any in those sources. [[User:217.132.106.247|217.132.106.247]] 15:58, 11 August 2006 (UTC)Antrax |
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==...== |
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Perhaps we should add a section of the [[2006 Israel-Lebanon crisis]] to this page. It is a major event in Lebanon history. |
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Also, my apologies for botching up some discussion pages and user talk pages. I'm having trouble figuring everything out.<small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:81.170.59.211|81.170.59.211]] ([[User talk:81.170.59.211|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/81.170.59.211|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small> |
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== regarding Israel-Hizbollah Conflict == |
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Can't you anti-Israel people see the difference? (I'm not Jewish nor Muslim.) |
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Why should Israel have an interest in lebanese land? They don't. |
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They want peace. |
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What are they supposed to do, if the lebanese government is uncapable of disarming Hizbollah and also does not ask for international help, and this organisation continues importing and building arms and stationing them around the Israel border, claiming "Israel has to die!" and so on. |
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They have to react on these threats before it is too late. |
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Hizbollah - thinking because Israel already left the Gaza strip, they now are weak enough to be attacked and destroyed by the united Arab-forces or whatever those mad extremists were thinking - decided to seize the day, do the say as Palestina did and join a war that would hopefully give the arabs back all the wonderful land that the villain jews bought from them since 1880(or occupied in the terrorists mind), but in this way gave Israel a justification to get rid of this terrible danger. |
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Israel does not deny anyone the right to believe in his religion nor does it want to aquire lebanese land. They want peace!! The Islamists are the ones trying to destroy another country for the sake of allahs will. |
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And they do it with all means. Using civilians as human shields. The reason why there are so many civil victims on the lebanese side, is not that israel tries to kill kids or whatever stupid theory some people propagate, but that Hizbollah encourages the common people to stay in the places they shoot their rockets from or use as base for their organization. Israel forces even through out flyers above those places before attacking them, to warn the civilians to leave. The worst thing for Israel is innocent people dying from their attacks and that's why Hizbollah wants their own people to die. They don't provide air-raid shelters, they often don't even let them leave the place. Hizbollah don't care about the life of their people, it's all about winning back the honor/fullfilling a prophecy/medievil-mind-set-delusions. |
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What is a country supposed to do, if it is surrounded by enemies that are not open to diplomatic negotiations, don't even care about the well-being of their own people to fulfill allahs will? There is no other means than what they are doing now, and you can be sure that nobody in the Israel government likes the idea of killing people. But they have no choice if they want to save their own people. |
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The Arab-countries-around-Israel's job would be to create the opportunity for their people to live a healthy, free and prosperous life in peace. A good way to accomplish this would be to use the money (they might get from foreign countries) in developing industries and farmland or in hospitals education etc. Instead they use the grand part of it to buy weapons!! |
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Why? |
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The most important thing for those countries would actually be to find a peaceful solution to their Israel problem, Israel always wanted and still wants a peaceful solution. Problem is: with organizations like Hizbollah and the irrational behaviour they display, it is very very difficult. |
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--Mahmud |
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(what i say may seem or even be exaggerated, but please reconsider your views. its not b/w "the zionists are the villains") |
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== What is this? PERSIAN!!! == |
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Are you kidding us? Are you kidding us? Are you kidding us? |
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The only official language in Lebanon is Arabic (along with French in public sectors). WHo knows Persian in Lebanon? Is this some pathetic attempt to show that Lebanon and Iran are allies against Israel? Is this what some of you are trying to do? Let the truth be known. Stop it with your lies. You can use private media for this, but not Wikipedia. |
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::Neither French or Persian or for that matter English are official languages in Lebanon. Although French and now English (equally) are widely spoken in Lebanon. Persian is also spoken by some and was taught in full force especially during the time of Imam Mus Sadr (an Iranian) , but nowhere to the level that French or English are spoken. |
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::Neither Persian or French should be placed on the official languages list. |
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::[[User:69.196.164.190|69.196.164.190]] |
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WHAT? IMAM MUSSA AS-SADR IS LEBANESE !!! and no! i'm lebanese, and i lived my whole life there, and i dont know anyone who speaks persian. i've taken spanish lessons there, so do a lot of people, so is spanish a widely spoken language now? what about the german school with all it's graduates... !! it's just Arabic = official language, french and english very widely spoken. period. |
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==Why insist on french== |
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I made a comment earlier regarding the official language of lebanon, the only language in lebanon is arabic, french is not considered as another language even if its used as a second language by the authorities, else we would consider other arab countries to have English as an official language, i believe whoever is adding French as a language is a pathetic whanna be, there is no space here for his dreams & whims of uniting Lebanon with Europe!!, i am going to remove french, if you want to add it again, then you will have to add English, Spanish, Portoguese, & german since other lebanese master these languages.[[User:213.42.2.23|213.42.2.23]] 13:20, 20 August 2006 (UTC) Le cock sportif |
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The Lebanese Constitution included French as one of the official languages. It seems like you have an issue with people who would like Lebanon and Europe to have the close relations they once had (not only with France). Maybe you should quit the insulting and provide Wikipedia readers with facts, not just stuff that you believe and what you want to see happen. Fact: Arabic is ''an'' official language of Lebanon along with French. |
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30/08/06 |
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Nope, no issue at all, as a matter of fact i was sticking to the facts, you can't consider french an official language in the same manner as arabic, even Morroco's page mentions arabic as the official language & refers to french as widely spoken (although morrocans use french in their daily dialect much more than lebanese do. Lots of lebanese don't even know how to speak the language, some lebanese might even be offended if you consider the previous occupation of france to lebanon, therefore i think its selfish & improper to include it as an official language to their country. Therefore mon ami, excuse moi while i remove french from the page.[[User:213.42.2.23|213.42.2.23]] 06:28, 4 September 2006 (UTC)Zizzou |
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Get your facts straight! '''Every''' bilingual person in Lebanon speaks Arabic and French, and it is PART OF THE CONSTITUTION that French is the official language of Lebanon. I will keep adding it back, you removing it '''is''' a violation of Wikipedia rules to provide FACTUAL information, not the fact that you REFUSE to accept French as an official language of Lebanon because of your issues with the western world! |
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04/09/06 |
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WOW that was fast.. lets check the facts, you are saying that every bilingual person in lebanon speaks arabic & french, well, you can only state that as a fact if you knew every bilingual person in lebanon, in fact most of the lebanese people I know speak English better than French, but you don't find me stating that English is an official language in lebanon. I have no issues with the western world, & if I say that Japanese is not a language of lebanon that doesn't mean that I have issues with the eastern world either. Now how you feel about france is not my concern, neither the concern of wikipedia readers so stop including your personal beliefs & label them as facts, to end this matter am including what was mentioned in the lebanese constitution :''''''Article 11 [Official National Language] |
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Arabic is the official national language. A law determines the cases in which the French language may be used.'''''' |
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I think its clear that arabic is the official national language, its mentioned clearly, so what you are doing is a violation of wikipedia rules. Finally an official language is a language spoken as a mother tongue by the population of a country, if you consider french to be the mother tongue of lebanese then OH MON DIEU..again am removing french, you can add it later if this is how you make your points. |
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PS:''However, a language officially recognized by a state, taught in schools, and used in official communication is not necessarily an official language.'' this text is from the (official language page) from wikipedia. |
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The official encyclopedia of world geography (published 2001) states that the official languages of Lebanon are Arabic and French. Also, I never said that French is the mother tongue of the Lebanese - do you think that French is the mother tongue of all Canadians, or the mother tongue of all people from Djibouti? No, but French is recognised as one of the official languages of these countries. |
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I have added French in the languages again but have also added something else. If you change that then you will certainly be proving my point that you are against westernisation - take a look at the wikipedia pages of [[Madagascar]] and [[Morocco]] for examples. |
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04/09/06 |
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Have the decency to comment here if when you edit my part out! Gosh. |
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04/09/06 |
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== Current Events == |
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I've altered the first sentance because it sounded like the IDF forces were captured inside Lebanease territory, a statement that wasnt even varified by the sources given! And also was contradicted by the next paragraph. I will include the alternate point of view now. |
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Note: I have left the original sources for this bar one which was removed as a dead link |
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--[[User:Rick browne|Rick browne]] 14:57, 22 August 2006 (UTC) |
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== Civil War == |
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I have deleted some passages that are neither balanced and not relevant (bold has been deleted): |
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"Initially, fighting began between these Palestinians '''(referred to as "anti-Lebanese militias" by some)''' and the indigenous Lebanese "leftists" (the communists and socialist parties). As the fighting intensified, the sides involved became more distinct. On one side was the Christian resistance led first by [[Bachir Gemayel]] and later by [[Samir Geagea]]. The other side comprised a coalition of Palestinian refugees, [[Sunni Muslim]], and [[Druze]] forces '''who were united in their detestation of the 1943 National Pact'''. The (so-called civil) war left the nation with no effective central government." --[[User:Emirbachir|Emirbachir]] 18:34, 22 August 2006 (UTC) |
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==Oops?== |
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I have removed the word "accidentally" in referring to the Israeli bombing of the UN post. The facility was hit 15 consecutive times, so I guess that doesn't qualify as an accident. Also, you should check whether the damage was caused by an air strike. I believe it was ground artillery. Even so, the attack was certainly not accidental, which the next paragraph confirms (if it was a "tactical necessity" then that implies it was premeditated). And even if they were bombing the area close to the place and "accidentally" hit, why didn't they call the UN personnel and warn them to evacuate, just as they do in Gaza where they call people and tell them to get out of their houses before shelling them. Israel was just trying to show that '''no one''' can tell it what to do to scare the Lebanese who had hope that the UN wouldn't just sit with its arms folded. [[User:LestatdeLioncourt|LestatdeLioncourt]] 12:36, 31 August 2006 (UTC) |
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==Personal Freedom== |
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I have erased the "eradicating personal freedoms" part where Syria's effect on Lebanon is discussed. Now I'm not doing this in support of Syria, it's just that I can very well remember many people who spoke openly of the Syrian influence (or domination if you wish) on the Lebanese governemnet and critisized such an invlovement. However, the rights of Lebanses citizens to freely express their ideas and thoughts has been guranteed throught Lebanon's history, which has certainly been (to say the least) the most deomcratic country in the Arab world. [[User:LestatdeLioncourt|LestatdeLioncourt]] 15:43, 1 September 2006 (UTC) |
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== French Name == |
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I added the French name of the country, since it is an official language. Take a look at [[Afghanistan]], where the name of the country appears in both official languages.[[User:Heja helweda|Heja Helweda]] 04:52, 2 September 2006 (UTC) |
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==Syrian intervention and consequent occupation of Lebanon== |
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I believe that section is not very accurate, it mentions that the palestinians were pushed out of beirut by the joined syrian-maronite forces, to my knowledge the palestinians continued to control significant areas in beirut until the israeli invasion & seige of Beirut in 1982, I also didn't understand what(Ezzat)stands for. |
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[[User:213.42.2.23|213.42.2.23]] 12:23, 4 September 2006 (UTC)The man who sold the world |
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== Hariri assassination == |
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This section claims, "others have suggested it was carried out by Israeli's secret service MOSSAD and/or the CIA, to force the withdrawal of Syrian troops from Lebanon, making an Israeli invasion feasible." Since the author fails to cite this assertion or at least identify who "others" are, it qualifies as a personal opinion, and therefore, should be corrected or deleted. |
Latest revision as of 11:31, 29 December 2024
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Coat of Arms 2
[edit]The Coat of arms of Lebanon page has been developed enough, so i guess it should be okay putting the coat of arms on this page. 185.76.178.100 (talk) 10:06, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
- or putting the cedar emblem next to the flag, exactly like the France page. The French emblem is used in a de facto capacity, so is the Lebanese emblem and coat of arms. 178.135.8.101 (talk) 16:59, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
- In support of this. WeaponizingArchitecture | scream at me 12:19, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- Same here, in support of the cedar tree. It's a very distinct image and only associated with Lebanon Wkpdsrnm2023 (talk) 07:27, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
- In support of this. WeaponizingArchitecture | scream at me 12:19, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- It hasn't really changed very much. It seems that there is still no specific source stating that this symbol is the country's coat of arms. It would be good to hear from participants in the earlier discussion @Largoplazo; @Mir Novov; @Beshogur; @Mnmazur; @Koavf; @LaundryPizza03. Furius (talk) 08:44, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
- Doesn't matter if it's the coat of arms or not. Every country has a symbol next to their flag except for Lebanon. France has "Emblem", I suggest the cedar tree be put back as "Emblem" if the only problem is that it's not the coat of arms. Wkpdsrnm2023 (talk) 08:50, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
- Other stuff exists is not an argument. Beshogur (talk) 10:48, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
- If France doesn't actually have an emblem, then that article should also not pretend that it does. If every other country shows some symbol because every other country has an official coat of arms or emblem, while Lebanon doesn't, then this article should not. The cedar is obviously a common motif used in representations of Lebanon (such as the flag), but is it, itself, considered an emblem? If not, then we shouldn't present it as such. Largoplazo (talk) 10:59, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
- It's literally called Cedrus libani in scientific notation, meaning cedar of Lebanon. And Wikipedia has a line of code in the infobox for symbols that are not the coat of arms for this very situation:
- symbol_type = emblem, seal, etc (if not a coat of arms)
- Also, CIA says that "the green cedar tree is the symbol of Lebanon and represents eternity, steadiness, happiness, and prosperity" https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/lebanon/flag Wkpdsrnm2023 (talk) 11:27, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
- Also mentioned in the Bible many times notably during the building of Solomon's temple in 1 Kings 5:
- "“So give orders that cedars of Lebanon be cut for me. My men will work with yours, and I will pay you for your men whatever wages you set. You know that we have no one so skilled in felling timber as the Sidonians.”"
- https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Kings%205-6&version=NIV
- And in Psalms:
- "The trees of the Lord are well watered, the cedars of Lebanon that he planted."
- https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+104&version=NIV Wkpdsrnm2023 (talk) 11:34, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
- I'm taking issue with your first point. I'm going to suppose you don't think that any of Camellia sinensis, Eriocheir sinensis, Streptococcus sinensis, or Clonorchis sinensis is an emblem of China, or that they are, respectively, that country's official plant, crustacean, bacterium, or parasite. Largoplazo (talk) 11:39, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
- Are those symbols on the Chinese flag? Wkpdsrnm2023 (talk) 11:47, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
- Or coins?
- https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces3898.html Wkpdsrnm2023 (talk) 11:56, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
- Or paper bills?
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_pound#/media/File:Billet_de_1000_livres_libanaises.jpg Wkpdsrnm2023 (talk) 11:58, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
- As I explicitly said, I wasn't addressing any of those points, only the one about the taxonomic nomenclature. Which was an invalid point, as I illustrated. Largoplazo (talk) 12:21, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
- You won't address the point as it stands in context because you don't have an argument against it other than semantics. Wkpdsrnm2023 (talk) 02:11, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
- "Semantics"? You raised the point about the taxonomic name. If it was just "semantics", then why did you raise it?
- As for why I didn't address any of your other points: There is no principle that "When somebody makes several points, thou shalt not address any of those points unless thou addressest all of those points." You made one point that was bad outright that I chose to address. Your other points aren't relevant to my comment on that point; I am not obliged to address the other points; and you appear to have chosen to harangue me on all the points I didn't address to avoid acknowledging my remark about that one point. Largoplazo (talk) 12:07, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
- It was raised in context along with other points you intentionally chose not to see. You didn't answer the question either, so I'll ask again, are the Chinese bugs and other creatures on the Chinese flag?
- I'll wait. Wkpdsrnm2023 (talk) 00:11, 16 October 2023 (UTC):::::::::::::I saw all your points. But it seems that my point about how choosing to address one of your points doesn't obligate me to address any of the others didn't register with you. So stop talking to me as though I'm under such an obligation. By the way, 7 billion other people in the world also haven't addressed all your points. Why don't you also yell at them? Largoplazo (talk) 02:33, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
- You won't address the point as it stands in context because you don't have an argument against it other than semantics. Wkpdsrnm2023 (talk) 02:11, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
- Yeah stop spamming stuff. Beshogur (talk) 15:23, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
- Spamming links and references? That's just called research. How about let the conversation happen instead of trying to shut everything down. Wkpdsrnm2023 (talk) 02:13, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
- As I explicitly said, I wasn't addressing any of those points, only the one about the taxonomic nomenclature. Which was an invalid point, as I illustrated. Largoplazo (talk) 12:21, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
- The taxonomic nomenclature is irrelevant. The Bible is very irrelevant, since the Republic of Lebanon didn't exist then. Coins and money are also irrelevant, since many countries have symbols on their coinage without that being their coat of arms. (In my home country of New Zealand, for example, the silver fern is a very widely used national symbol in private and public contexts - including the passport! - but all of these usages are informal; it is not the coat of arms / official national symbol. The official coat of arms which appears in the infobox of WP's article on New Zealand is, in fact, very rarely seen or used).
- The CIA world factbook is explaining why the symbol appears on the flag, it does not establish that it is an official symbol in other contexts. So far, all we've had are examples of it being used in particular instances (extrapolating from those to the claim that the cedar is the official coat of arms/symbol/emblem of Lebanon is WP:OR). If the cedar (separate from the flag) is an official symbol/emblem/coat of arms of Lebanon, it should be very easy to point to WP:RS that explicitly say that it is an official symbol/emblem/coat of arms of Lebanon. It is striking that none of the proponents of this addition have been able to cite such a source. Furius (talk) 14:21, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
- Sources are given. Calling them irrelevant doesn't make them irrelevant. You have to make an argument as to why that is the case other than "New Zealand has an official coat of arms and that's why the silver fern isn't displayed". As far as I'm concerned, the people opposing this are being exceptionally unreasonable. The symbol of the green cedar tree is literally everywhere throughout the country, all over the flag, the currency, the websites, things that are mentioned about the country now and throughout history - in ancient texts and modern texts. How much more do you need? Do you need the Lebanese government to explicitly state that the cedar tree is a symbol of Lebanon? Is that the only criteria? Is there no case for an obvious de facto symbol that is used throughout the world for the country?Wkpdsrnm2023 (talk) 02:19, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
- Here's another source, Lebanon's country profile at the Library of Congress:
- https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/master/frd/frdcstdy/le/lebanoncountryst00coll/lebanoncountryst00coll.pdf
- "On the cover: Representing Lebanon's tragic civil strife, a
- cedar, the national symbol, is shown split in two." Wkpdsrnm2023 (talk) 03:58, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
- Oh now it's split in two now? Do we have a real source? Preferably Libanese. Beshogur (talk) 04:51, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
- Just yet another example. Here's one more in the national anthem:
- "Her glory – her cedar, her symbol for eternity."
- What's your argument again? The cedar can't be the symbol of the country because it is only on the flag, the currency, in the national anthem, on every government symbol, it's scientific name, in the Bible, in basically every article mentioning Lebanon..... but it's not explicitly stated word-for-word how you want it to be? Wkpdsrnm2023 (talk) 09:11, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
- Oh now it's split in two now? Do we have a real source? Preferably Libanese. Beshogur (talk) 04:51, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
- Sources are given. Calling them irrelevant doesn't make them irrelevant. You have to make an argument as to why that is the case other than "New Zealand has an official coat of arms and that's why the silver fern isn't displayed". As far as I'm concerned, the people opposing this are being exceptionally unreasonable. The symbol of the green cedar tree is literally everywhere throughout the country, all over the flag, the currency, the websites, things that are mentioned about the country now and throughout history - in ancient texts and modern texts. How much more do you need? Do you need the Lebanese government to explicitly state that the cedar tree is a symbol of Lebanon? Is that the only criteria? Is there no case for an obvious de facto symbol that is used throughout the world for the country?Wkpdsrnm2023 (talk) 02:19, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
- Are those symbols on the Chinese flag? Wkpdsrnm2023 (talk) 11:47, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
- Doesn't matter if it's the coat of arms or not. Every country has a symbol next to their flag except for Lebanon. France has "Emblem", I suggest the cedar tree be put back as "Emblem" if the only problem is that it's not the coat of arms. Wkpdsrnm2023 (talk) 08:50, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
- No it's not. Full of original research. Beshogur (talk) 10:49, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
- According to who? Wkpdsrnm2023 (talk) 02:14, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
- According to wp:or. Beshogur (talk) 15:31, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- Prove it. Wkpdsrnm2023 (talk) 09:12, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
- According to wp:or. Beshogur (talk) 15:31, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- According to who? Wkpdsrnm2023 (talk) 02:14, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
- @Largoplazo I found some sources proving that it is indeed the unofficial coat of arms of Lebanon. It is mentioned and illustrated in page 64 of the book “Guide to the flags of the world” [1]. It is also illustrated on page 62 of “The world of flags: a pictorial history” [2]. 71.239.86.150 (talk) 14:45, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
Edits by user:Smint34
[edit]There seems to be an edit war over this. I think I have some sympathy with Smint34's edit but it should be agreed here. Pinging User:Duvasee. DeCausa (talk) 21:51, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
Lebanon was home to Phoenicia?
[edit]Phoenicia predates Lebanon, so if Wikipedia is going to use this non-encyclopedic metaphor "home", ancient Phoenicia is now "home" to what is currently being called "Lebanon". Plus the source give doesn't even say these words, and the source is also not encyclopedic, even if it is somehow associated with Princeton. Describing an ancient trade as coming from the "innards" of snails is one example of the very casual and chatty tone of the source and so I doubt it's use for Wikipedia in any way, for factual reasons, for prioritization of topics (meaning elevating that which is entertaining over that which is objectively significant), and in general a sloppy, half-assed column that would be more appropriately found in a news magazine like "People", and not being used as source material for an encyclopedia. Meaning that, I read the Wikipedia Article, and I still don't know the history of the areas of the Middle East that is now known as "Lebanon", no matter what words it might be currently using, I don't trust them, or the Article.
2603:8081:3A00:30DF:A5AB:9BE9:BAED:623B (talk) 21:56, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Pedantic nonsense. Ancient Phoenicia and modern Lebanon closely overlap. Phoenician purple dye was indeed made from the innards of murex sea snails. These are both facts. A place can be "home to" something older than itself (eg most museums are home to old artefacts). Colloquial language (which "innards" isn't, really...) or an interest in entertainment doesn't necessarily make a source unreliable. Furius (talk) 08:20, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- To be fair "home to Phoenicia" sounds odd and doesn't really make sense. Looking back it originally said "home to Phoenician civilization" which is a more usual phrase. I've revised it here. DeCausa (talk) 08:48, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
Why the Religion Index or bar has been removed?
[edit]The current wiki page on Religion has been tampered & Changed & the Religion bar has been removed from the page completely !!! No, proper way to go through the demographics of Lebanon properly!!! Skalvanov (talk) 18:51, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 June 2024
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I am requesting to change the word Israel to be change to Palestine what has happeded lately I would appreciate if you acknowledge change the words Israel to Palestine that is all I ask Nenikijhk (talk) 19:52, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
- Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. There are 65 occurrences of "israel" in this article, which one(s) are you requesting be changed? the 1948 Arab–Israeli War to the 1948 Arab-Palestine War? Cannolis (talk) 20:13, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 June 2024
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Lebanon is a Mediterranean country. It should be listed as one, not as a country in west Asia. It hinders from its Mediterranean history and culture. TheLebanesePython (talk) 01:04, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
- Not done: Lebanon is in West Asia, in the same way that Morocco is in North Africa ("Morocco ... is a country in the Maghreb region of North Africa") and Italy is in Europe ("Italy ... is a country in Southern and Western Europe"). The very second sentence of the article says that it (like Morocco and Italy) is on the Mediterranean. The rest of the article goes into detail about its history and culture. I think you're trying to make the first sentence accomplish more than it needs to. Largoplazo (talk) 02:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
Proximity of Cyprus to Lebanon
[edit]It seems lazy and mis-informative to say in the lead that "Cyprus lies a short distance away from [Lebanon's] coastline". Cyprus is approximately 100 miles offshore of Lebanon. Changing the quoted phrase to "Cyprus lies 100 miles offshore of Lebanon" uses fewer words and is precise. This is important if you live in Cyprus or are planning to visit Cyprus for tourism, which contributes 10 percent of its GDP. I wouldn't be keen on taking a holiday somewhere "a short distance away" from Lebanon any time soon, but I'd be happy to holiday on an island one hundred miles away. Wikipedia is supposed to be an encyclopaedia, yet its articles are littered with phraseology like this. Isn't this a clear example of WP:Weaselwords? Flusapochterasumesch (talk) 23:26, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
- How exactly are you quantifying the distance between these two countries, and from where are we measuring? 100 miles (on the dot, rounded) is not as precise as one clearly presumes, so can you please go and fulfil your obligation to the wikipedia project and it's readership and provide and accurate measurement from a reputable reliable source to adhere resolutely to WP PRECISE. It may be necessary to note from where the distance is measured, for example it could be shorter or longer from Tyre than Beirut.
- As nobody has had any qualms about this superflous tidbit factoid prior to this, your presumably good faith contribution to this talk page can otherwise be ignored unless anybody has any objections. Sincerely JJNito197 (talk) 02:37, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- How did I quantify the distance? I measured it on a map. And the shortest distance I measure is 100.67 miles. My source - a map. Any map. You can use Google Maps if you like. It gives the same result as the nautical chart I used. "Superflous [sic] tidbit factoid"? You are hilarious. Imagine an encyclopaedia specifying a distance! How superfluous! And that distance is between Cape Greco Penninsula (Cyprus) and Selaata (Lebanon). Flusapochterasumesch (talk) 14:40, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- OK, you measured it on a map, figuring out yourself which pair of points in the respective countries are closer than any other pair of points in the respective countries. That makes it WP:OR.
- Conversely, JJNito197, "a short distance away from" is too vague to be informative, whereas "approximately 100 miles", while still needing to be properly sourced, is at least informative. So given a citationless choice between the two, the latter makes more sense. Largoplazo (talk) 14:59, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- The article says that Lebanon is bordered by Syria to the north and east, and by Israel to the south. It's not referenced. How are these things known? Could it also be "original research"? Perhaps someone who looked at a map and assumed these things?
- N.B My sloppy phrase "approximately 100 miles" has been updated to "precisely 100.67 miles, from Cape Greco Peninsula to an outcrop near to Selaata, Lebanon". The reference for this is Google Maps. Flusapochterasumesch (talk) 15:52, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- Anything that makes the lead longer than what is necessary would be difficult to follow for readability purposes per DUE WEIGHT. If we see the Israel page it specifies 'bordered by the Mediterranean Sea to the west'. In this case it would make more sense to keep this style, but include Cyprus, as in 'whilst Cyprus lies west across the Mediterranean sea'. This was also the standard on this article for many years. Whether or not this will perturb you from holidaying in Lebanon 'anytime soon' is irrelevant and we should not change the opening sentence to accommodate you. We could add a note to the sentence to elucidate further for those that want the distance quantified. Largoplazo if you have any better ways at structuring this please let us know. JJNito197 (talk) 16:49, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- As I mentioned in my original message, my proposed edit makes the lead shorter. Not longer.
- Kindly stop being rude and disparaging in your replies, and from attributing faux-perturbation to me. I suggested an edit to sloppy encyclopaedic text. I did not say I was perturbed or "deeply concerned". Nor did I express the opinion that there are people out there who will "want specific mileage". But this is an encyclopaedia and people use the resource for facts, details and information. Flusapochterasumesch (talk) 17:04, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- One cannot assume that this project can cover everything and anything, despite your admiration and aspiration to do so. You already laid out your reasoning for the proposal, albeit in jest, I hope. JJNito197 (talk) 17:32, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- In jest? Do you follow current affairs? In the last 48 hours many countries including US, the UK, Australia, Sweden, France, Italy, Canada, South Korea, Saudi Arabia and Jordan have urged their citizens to leave Lebanon at the earliest possible opportunity; as the fear of an all-out war with Israel escalates.
- So no. No jest. Anyone considering travelling to Cyprus would, I am sure, much prefer to know it is 100 miles away from Lebanon - not a short distance away.
- Then there's the other reason - this is an encyclopaedia and it deals in facts, not WP:Weaslewords Flusapochterasumesch (talk) 17:43, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- Regardless, the distance of the countries will remain the same in the foreseeable future, so specifying whether it is 100 miles or 10 miles as a pseudo-respite to accomodate or dissuade potential holiday goers is redundant and not helpful, considering that Lebanon exists as an entity separate from the machinations of world politics foremostly. One needs to understand that the tumultuous situation is expected to be exacerbated congruently, be it across the Mediterranean or on the immediate border. So if you are looking at a holiday anytime soon, I would imagine the best place to visit is ones own backyard. Kind regards JJNito197 (talk) 17:56, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- One cannot assume that this project can cover everything and anything, despite your admiration and aspiration to do so. You already laid out your reasoning for the proposal, albeit in jest, I hope. JJNito197 (talk) 17:32, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- Anything that makes the lead longer than what is necessary would be difficult to follow for readability purposes per DUE WEIGHT. If we see the Israel page it specifies 'bordered by the Mediterranean Sea to the west'. In this case it would make more sense to keep this style, but include Cyprus, as in 'whilst Cyprus lies west across the Mediterranean sea'. This was also the standard on this article for many years. Whether or not this will perturb you from holidaying in Lebanon 'anytime soon' is irrelevant and we should not change the opening sentence to accommodate you. We could add a note to the sentence to elucidate further for those that want the distance quantified. Largoplazo if you have any better ways at structuring this please let us know. JJNito197 (talk) 16:49, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- How did I quantify the distance? I measured it on a map. And the shortest distance I measure is 100.67 miles. My source - a map. Any map. You can use Google Maps if you like. It gives the same result as the nautical chart I used. "Superflous [sic] tidbit factoid"? You are hilarious. Imagine an encyclopaedia specifying a distance! How superfluous! And that distance is between Cape Greco Penninsula (Cyprus) and Selaata (Lebanon). Flusapochterasumesch (talk) 14:40, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
Dispute resolution - please advise on most suitable arbitration process
[edit]Dear @JJNito197 I have asked for the following edit to be made to this article. In the format 'change X to Y', here is my request for you once more: X - "Cyprus lies a short distance away from the country's coastline" Y - "Cyprus lies approximately 100 miles from the country's coastline" using this link as a citation (or linking to any other publicly available measure such as Google Maps) https://ibb.co/VBKD0Pw which shows the exact shortest distance from coast to coast to be approximately 100.46 miles depending upon tides etc. My rationale is that the words "lies a short distance away from" are WP:Weaselwords and not worthy of an encyclopaedia of Wikipedia's prestige. You have refused this edit request several times and been deliberately obtuse, disparaging, belligerent and obfuscatory. You have also locked down this article. Can you advise me please, as a senior editor of the project, how I should go about escalating my complaint about your behaviour, and how I should seek arbitration from more competent editors? Flusapochterasumesch (talk) 22:26, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 September 2024
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Personally as a Lebanese person I can attest that Lebanese culture is one of the ancient Mediterranean cultures of the world. It is favorable if Lebanon is not introduced as a “ country in West Asia “ rather a “ a Mediterranean country in the Levant “. I believe this is much more suitable.
I hope you accept my request and blessings 🙏🏼 LebaneseCanan (talk) 04:51, 18 September 2024 (UTC)
- Not done: It already says it's in the Levant in the first sentence and that it's on the Mediterranean in the second. It's a description of the physical location of the country, not a characterization of its culture. Largoplazo (talk) 10:53, 18 September 2024 (UTC)
Grouping of settlements
[edit]Might I suggest someone that knows the country that on a settlement's page, to start adding a "municipality" section in its infobox to show not just the governorate and district in which it is located, but the actual local government that it is subordinate, too? I think the Dahieh article - in both English and French - is a good example of this which doesn't really give a sense of what municipalities - or which municipalities if it crosses borders - it belongs to. It's basically written as if it's a municipality/local government, itself, though it also is heavily implied that it's made up of multiple cities.
Also, too, I've noticed that on most District articles they have a list of "cities and villages" or "cities and towns" section, and I imagine that these are simply settlements regardless of local government, but that's never made clear. Criticalthinker (talk) 09:10, 29 September 2024 (UTC)
- Wait, now I'm seeing shapefiles that have a third administrative level below "Districts" called "sub-districts" which appear to be smaller than the municipalities? I know all of these may not be functional, but what's going on? Someone please make sense of this and bring sources. Just as an example, which municipalities make up "Dahieh"? Criticalthinker (talk) 10:57, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
- Anyone? Criticalthinker (talk) 03:59, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
Link to Arafat page
[edit]Arafat is mentioned without linking to his page or explaining who he was. Domwsr (talk) 07:45, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
- I've taken care of it! Largoplazo (talk) 10:42, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
- Very fast, thanks. Typo in Yassir/Yasser though? Domwsr (talk) 14:56, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oh, ha, you're right! Fixed. Largoplazo (talk) 16:33, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
- Very fast, thanks. Typo in Yassir/Yasser though? Domwsr (talk) 14:56, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
Lebanon (southern) vs Israel 104.138.152.29 (talk) 21:02, 4 October 2024 (UTC)
Leading description
[edit]I think the lead should change from West Asia to Middle East. "West Asia" is barely a term that is only used by a few people, mostly by Geography teachers, Lebanon is always referred to as the core countries of the Middle East. ShawarmaFan07 (talk) 20:35, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
Ceasefire
[edit]The recent ceasefire fire between Israel and Hezbollah should be added to the last paragraph of the History section. Fyukfy5 (talk) 16:23, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request
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In the second paragraph, where it mentions “The 11th century saw the establishment of Crusader states, which fell to the Ayyubids and the Mamluks, and eventually the Ottomans”, after the word Ottomans, please add that it was part of the region known as Ottoman Syria. https://guides.library.illinois.edu/c.php?g=348323&p=2347109 2600:100C:A218:9A7B:E879:81B4:EADF:A345 (talk) 21:31, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the
{{Edit extended-protected}}
template. I think that's too much detail for a lead section. But if other editors disagree with me I'm happy for the change Ultraodan (talk) 11:31, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
Claims about refugee camps not supported by citation
[edit]Perhaps these claims should not remain without citation.
"Many Islamist and Palestinian militias operate in refugee camps because of an agreement that prevents the Lebanese Army from entering them. Many people wanted by the Lebanese government are believed to have taken refuge in the camp as a result of the lack of Lebanese authority." Lonsuderforpresident (talk) 01:17, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 December 2024
[edit]It is requested that an edit be made to the extended-confirmed-protected article at Lebanon. (edit · history · last · links · protection log)
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SUMMARY:
Proposal to add [citation needed] to the end of the last paragraph in the section "Military"
CURRENT TEXT:
Hezbollah effectively controls large portions of southern Lebanon, and has greater military strength than the Lebanese armed forces.[1] The government of Lebanon has been unable or unwilling to prevent Hezbollah attacks on Israel, and violent conflict between Israel and Hezbollah in southern Lebanon.[2] Many Islamist and Palestinian militias operate in refugee camps because of an agreement that prevents the Lebanese Army from entering them. Many people wanted by the Lebanese government are believed to have taken refuge in the camp as a result of the lack of Lebanese authority.
PROPOSED TEXT:
Hezbollah effectively controls large portions of southern Lebanon, and has greater military strength than the Lebanese armed forces.[3] The government of Lebanon has been unable or unwilling to prevent Hezbollah attacks on Israel, and violent conflict between Israel and Hezbollah in southern Lebanon.[4] Many Islamist and Palestinian militias operate in refugee camps because of an agreement that prevents the Lebanese Army from entering them. Many people wanted by the Lebanese government are believed to have taken refuge in the camp as a result of the lack of Lebanese authority.[citation needed] Lonsuderforpresident (talk) 00:16, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
- ^ Nashed, Mat. "Could rival Lebanese factions exploit a weakened Hezbollah?". Al Jazeera. Retrieved 2024-12-01.
- ^ "What Is Hezbollah? | Council on Foreign Relations". www.cfr.org. Retrieved 2024-12-01.
- ^ Nashed, Mat. "Could rival Lebanese factions exploit a weakened Hezbollah?". Al Jazeera. Retrieved 2024-12-01.
- ^ "What Is Hezbollah? | Council on Foreign Relations". www.cfr.org. Retrieved 2024-12-01.
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