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==References==
==Amharas and Oromos==
{{Reflist}}
From what I've long heard, the Amharas and Oromos historically and currently haven't gotten along well and don't get along well, to say the very least. [[User:Gringo300|Gringo300]] 19:06, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Simply reason, which doesn't have to do with being an "outsider" or "insider", the Oromo were colonized in the last decades of the 19th century by Amarah/Tigray led conquest backed by western military support. Since their colonization the Oromos have been oppressed being treated as second class citizens because the Oromo are the majority population. The Ethiopian state from Thewodros through Haile Selaise and Meles Zenawi today feel that by abusing their power to oppress these people their are keeping the country under control, but in reality has further created a nationalist response in the form of the OLF which seeks freedom and liberation from Ethiopia. <small>&mdash;''preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment by'' [[User:24.151.174.225|24.151.174.225]] ([[User talk:24.151.174.225|talk]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/24.151.174.225|contribs]]) 06:29, 15 December 2005 (UTC{{{3|}}})</small>

== WP:RS, WP:NPOV and reverting reliably sourced content ==

<small>
(copied from my talk page, so everyone can participate for collaboration - MSW)

Hi, I want to discuss about your recent edit on Oromo people. Many of the sources you used are from Oromo nationalist writers. I am a citizen of Ethiopia with 100 million people (with over 25% of the population fit for fighting to any local/intl ideology) and with over 80 ethnic-groups/languages as well as diverse religions (40% Orthodox, 33% Islam (With some Salafi/Wahabi followers), 20% Protestant), and for these reasons am very much concerned with peace in my home country and in the region as a whole. The tone you used to add content is based on nationalists who paraphrase out of context and who do not use impartial/balanced tone to write their books. Personally, I avoid all writers from the region (be it Amhara, Oromo, Tigray, Somali etc) and rely on writers who donot have political interest in the region but write books only to share knowledge by taking all historical documents fairly without prejudice. To show you how the regions writers paraphrase out of context please see the Eritrea wikiedia page [3] in which one writer with PHD degree named Yohanis Okbazghi paraphrasing out of context of James Bruce statment. While James Bruce in his own book published in 1805 said Medri Bahri/Bahrenegash (Highlands of presentday Eritrea) was part of Tigre province of Abyssinia Okbazghi said Medri Bahri was independent which fought with Abyssinia constantly, and he did this intentionally to promote Eritrean independence from Ethiopia. See this is how the regions nationalists manipulate history for their own agenda (to create resentment/hate between people and for their secessionist agenda). Please note that all African tribes were in hostile relation before 19th century and if we want to see a distablised African continent (with over 2,000 languages spoken and to create 2,000 ethnic countries) then we could write in every tribes wikipedia page saying your neighbouring tribes used to call you this and that, they have this and that stereotypes on you, you used to fight with them and they used to sell you into slave markets etc etc. Please note that it is those kind of sterotypes that led into Rwanda Genocide. Also note that there are Portugese eye witnesses, like Jao Bermudes, who came to help the Christians against Gragn Mohamed in 16th centuary who also fought with the Oromo expansionist and I don't see the importance of telling his graphic description of the Oromo warfare system in all the affected tribes of Horn of Africa in their Wikipedia page. It is for these reasons I am reverting your edit. Thank you —EthiopianHabesha (talk) 15:45, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
</small>
{{od}}
{{ping|EthiopianHabesha}} I appreciate your concerns. However, as you know, wikipedia is not a place to accuse professors based in the USA or Europe or Africa or elsewhere, or peer reviewed articles by scholars of being "nationalist writers". We also can't accept unsourced/OR-filled articles, like the way this article has been (even if under your watch). Content that was cited, I have checked and where appropriate, I removed [[WP:Copyvio]] and reworded to better match what the source is actually stating. We must seek balance per [[WP:NPOV]], for all sides. You mention Eritrea wikipedia page above, to explain your concerns, but frankly that is not relevant here. If you point out specific scholarly sources I have added, and then express your concerns, I will work with you to collaboratively improve this article. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 16:52, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

(ps) To help our discussion, I will list some of the numerous sources I added. What is your concern with these scholarly publications: [1] Encyclopedia of Africa. Oxford University Press; [2] The Political Economy of an African Society in Transformation. Otto Harrassowitz Verlag; [3] Peoples of South-west Ethiopia and its Borderland, International African Institute, Routledge; [4] The Origins of the Galla and Somali, The Journal of African History; [5] A History of Ethiopia: Volume II (Routledge Revivals): Nubia and Abyssinia, Routledge; [6] Some records of Ethiopia, 1593-1646, being extracts from the history of High Ethiopia or Abassia (Series: Oromo Peuple d'Afrique), Kraus Nendeln; [7] Being and Becoming Oromo: Historical and Anthropological Enquiries, Nordic Africa Institute; [8] Greater Ethiopia: The Evolution of a Multiethnic Society, University of Chicago Press; etc. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 17:03, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
::[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], my issue is with the importance of information added. For instance there are so many reliable sources written by past European scholars calling all African tribes using very deamning and derogatory terms telling how African tribes were heathen, savage & barbarians. I have seen many European reliable documents which can be used to add content here in wikipedia saying all Ethiopians including Chrstians as barbarian & savage people who needs to be civilised. I don't see the importance of adding those information in all African tribes wikipedia page. If we go to Zulu tribe wikipedia page we don't see content saying Europeans used to refer Zulu people as heathen and savage people or if you go to Amhara page you also don't see content saying a book writen by X European writer referring Amhara people as barbarian & savage people (though there is reliable document written by Euoropeans saying Amharas including their priests are barbarians). Ms Sarah, my question for you is what is the importance of adding such kind of information? and if such kind of information should be added here then why should we not add similar information in all over 2,000 African tribes wikipedia page i.e. we should also add content saying "Zulu, Xhosa, Kikuyu, Masay, Nubian, Ashanti, Amhara, Oromo, Somali, Hutu, Tutsi etc tribes were heathen, barbarian & savage human species according to X European writer published before 1950s"? In regards to relation between African tribes you go everywhere and there is positive and negative stereotypes and what is the importance of adding those stereotypes in wikipedia pages? Why shouldnt we just write about the government systems i.e. if there is any system that discriminated people from government bureaucracy then we should focus on that. For instance, Aparthide is a government system that discriminated people based on their biology and this topic might be important information to add on Zulu people wikipedia page while not adding the stereotypes white people have on Zulu black people like how they used to OR are still calling them heathen, barbarian & savage people in public or in secret in their house. In Ethiopia there was no government system that discriminated people based on their biology as there were people with Oromo blood (Ras Ali, Ras Gugsa, Emperor Haileselase....) who effectively ruled Amhara & the rest of Ethiopian people. There are also people with slave background (like Habtegyorgis Dinagde who doesnot have any Amhara blood) who was appointed by Menelik as acting primeminister & warminister whom later became the king maker after Menelik's death and who allowed Haileselase to be the next king. Menelik's mother is also a slave and also Mengistu Hailemariam's father was a slave from Nilotic (Shankella) people and no government system prevented them from ruling Ethiopian people (including Amhara people) unlike the Aparthide system where a person with one black ancestry was not allowed to rule the black majority country (South Africa) and black people were not allowed to marry/date white people by law/government system. For your info I don't belong to Amhara or Tigray ethnic-group but just concerned about peace in my home country. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 09:47, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

:::@EthiopianHabesha: So you do not have issue with reliability of the sources I have added, and you have identified no specific issues. Instead you mention "Aparthide [sic] is a government system that..." etc. Please see [[WP:COMPREHENSIVE]] and [[WP:TALK]]. The quality of other wikipedia articles is not relevant here (fwiw, other Africa and non-Africa related wiki articles do summarize these issues, see [[Kongo people]], [[Beti people]], [[Apartheid]], [[Armenians]] etc). The [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Oromo_people&oldid=750377882 old version you have reverted to] grossly misrepresents Oromo people, their origins, their society etc and violates wikipedia content guidelines/policies. The old version is POV-y and OR. It uses sources such as Lonely Planet Tourist guide for history/origins, then misrepresents even that Lonely Planet source. The old version does not summarize the reliable sources. It has claims that flatly misrepresent what WP:RS state, such as Oromo origins in the southern tip of Ethiopia and migrated into their current locations because of "great trade". You have removed scholarly sources and returned blogs/websites as source or OR for Gadda/Religions/Calendar section. Please don't do this. If you read [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Oromo_people&oldid=750314013 this revised version which you keep removing] carefully, and the sources I have added, you will see that I have made effort to keep the balance for Oromo and non-Oromo sides. If you identify WP:RS that other editors and I have not considered, you can (or I can help you) add a summary from them to improve the article further. Since you are edit warring, I will request one or two admins who watch Africa-space articles to intervene/guide us here. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 13:52, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
::::[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], my issues is regarding to the reliablity of the sources you used as well the importance of information added. I have many specific issues on the content you added but the issue is you have edited so much that my opinion is we discuss issues paragraph by paragraph before you edit. I have seen one administrator recommending for edit warring editors "'''first discuss then edit'''". As per wiki rule [[BRD]] please we discuss first then we add those ones we both agree with and in those areas we have disagreement then we can request 3rd opinion, rfc request, dispute resolution and then may be finally take it to arbitration. Wikipedia is edited by consensus and by collaboration and that if any editor opposes other editors work then he can go into all these dispute resolution process. Based on wiki rule which state that even if a content is sourced by reliable sources their importance can be questioned and discussed to reach consensus and that the sources used can also be discussed if they qualify [[WP:QS]] and [[WP:EXCEPTIONAL]]. Among several issues I have (most I have not explained them yet so that we solve one issue at a time) with your edit I have discussed one of them above in detail i.e. your use of stereotypes regarding how the people are perceived by their neighbours and I have given example above if it is appropriate to add past European writers (those writers before 1920s) writing with their stereotype on African tribes being pagan, heathen, barbarian & savage people. Ms Sarah, you have added such stereotypes (pagan, heathen, barbarian, bad people) in this article and you have not answered my question above I forwarded to you as to weather you think it is appropriate to add such kind of stereotypes. If you think it is appropriate then why should we not add such negative stereotypes used by Europeans in the past on Zulu, Masay, Nubian, Amhara, Hutu, Tutsi, Muslims.... in every pages of tribes of Africa because it can be supported by reliable published sources (if requested I can bring those old books here)?? Once we solve this issue I can proceed to the other issues I have with your edit. Thank you — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 07:19, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

{{od}}
===Galla and Oromo nomenclature===
@EthiopianHabesha: We must discuss their name ''Galla'' because [1] Galla is the predominant term in the early and pre-20th century literature, [2] the first known use of word Oromo to refer to these people is [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Oromo in 1893] (even then the Oromo word remained infrequent for many decades, only slowly did it gain wider acceptance), [3] we can't pretend that Oromo people did not exist or were not written about before, [4] Galla is discussed in numerous reliable scholarly secondary and tertiary sources on Oromo people. According to [[WP:NPOV]], "neutrality means representing fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, '''all of the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic'''". The problems of our world do not go away by censorship. Please read and reflect on [[WP:CENSOR]]. If you study the sources I have cited you will see there is lot more on Galla and the historic demeaning/persecution of the Oromo people, and I have already toned it down to the essentials while respecting "use plain language" and "what is directly verifiable in the reliable sources" guideline. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 22:04, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
:[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], you could just say previously they are referred by X name on past literatures written before 1970s, however, what is the importance of adding stereotypes associated with ethnic name here? There are negative stereotypes and perceptions associated with the name Amhara, Gurage, Tigray, Zulu, Masay, Hutu and all other African tribes by Europeans or by their neighbouring tribes and what is the point of adding them in wikipedia pages? Instead, why not just focus on government sponsored segregation/discrimination system if there is any? In Somalia Bantu-Somalis were not allowed to be clan lords/leaders of the majority cushitic Somalis and not allowed to marry/integrate with the cushitic Somalis and this is some form of state & social sponsored discrimination & segregation and probably this might be mentioned with in their respective pages while leaving the stereotypes and negative perceptions held by the cushitic Somalis on Bantu-Somalis. Aparthide might also be mentioned in SA black tribes because it is a state sponsored discrimination/segregation in which black people were not allowed to lead the black majority nation & not allowed to marry/date/integrate with whites by law/system. On the other hand there is no such similar law/system in Ethiopia and infact the Oromo lords like Ras Ali, Ras Gugsa, Emperor Haileselase & his wife Empress Menen, Negus Mikael Ali, Habtegyorgis were lords of Amhara & the rest of Ethiopians who also were on top of the government & social system of Ethiopia, moreover in the old literatures these lords are refereed by their old name as can be seen here [https://books.google.com.et/books?id=hGUMAQAAIAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=%22The+Italians+appear+not+to+have+understood+that+leading+families+were+as+often+Galla%22+propaganda+%27Amhara+tyranny%27]. In this source here [https://books.google.com.et/books?id=vXZNSUQkoqYC&pg=PA382&dq=%22second+division+of+Abyssinia%22+Amhara+%22has+been+for+a+long+time+almost+entirely+in+the+possession+of+the+Galla%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjjjO3Wi5nOAhXEsxQKHcJtB7kQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=%22second%20division%20of%20Abyssinia%22%20Amhara%20%22has%20been%20for%20a%20long%20time%20almost%20entirely%20in%20the%20possession%20of%20the%20Galla%22&f=false] [[Henry Salt (Egyptologist)]] (A European who travelled in the region by 1809) said that the Amhara division of Abyssinia (i.e. Gondar, Gojam, Wallo) was entirely in the possession of the Galla, and he is talking about the [[Yejju Oromo tribe]] whom their dynasty began by an Oromo chief called [[Abba Seru Gwangul]] whom his descendants continued to be lords of Amhara people upto 1850s and after death of Tewodros Yohanis, Menelik & Haileselse allowed descendants of the Yejju Oromo tribe to be lords of Gondar Amhara Province even after 1930s. As I said earlier before 19th centuary all African tribes were in continuous clan wars for resource competition and every tribe will raid his neighbours (even if they speak same language & same religion) to acquire cattle, slaves, for ritual requirement and Donald Levine concludes [https://books.google.com.et/books?id=TtmFQejWaaYC&pg=PA43&dq=%22importance+of+warfare+as+a+form+of+intertribal+relations+in+Greater+Ethiopia%22+cattle+slaves+territory+%22trade+routes%22+%22ritual+requirements%22+%22virtually+all%22+%22hostile+contact%22+trophies+masculinity&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjI1Yiex83NAhXGXBQKHSm5A1EQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=%22importance%20of%20warfare%20as%20a%20form%20of%20intertribal%20relations%20in%20Greater%20Ethiopia%22%20cattle%20slaves%20territory%20%22trade%20routes%22%20%22ritual%20requirements%22%20%22virtually%20all%22%20%22hostile%20contact%22%20trophies%20masculinity&f=false here] as to how the region was before 19th centuary — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 14:22, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

::@EthiopianHabesha: The sources you just provided merely confirm what I noted above. No, we can't just leave it as "previously they are referred by X name on past literatures written before 1970s" that you suggest. The obvious question in the reader's mind is why Galla name for a long time, why Oromo name now, why the change? Reliable sources discuss this. So must this article. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 14:35, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
::@EthiopianHabesha: This is not a case WP:IMPARTIAL or WP:ADVOCACY as you allege in [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Oromo_people&diff=prev&oldid=750748978 this latest edit comment], because the summary is accurate and NPOV as explained above. I have met the WP:ONUS / WP:DUE guideline because the article must present "all significant viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources, in proportion to the prominence of each viewpoint in the published, reliable sources." The "Galla" and "Oromo" discussion is prominent in numerous WP:RS, and a summary belongs in this article. If you can't understand these wikipedia guidelines, you should seek help at WP:TEAHOUSE and avoid editing / warring in this article. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 16:55, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

:::Ms Welch is correct, we should deal with the issue of the name change. The article doesn't use the word barbarian by the way.
:::The quote messaging savage is from a book by Mohammed Hassen[http://history.gsu.edu/profile/mohammed-hassen-ali/] who was quoting another writer:"Gadaa Melbaa has noted that 'the Abyssinians attach a derogatory connotation to the Galla, namely "pagan, savage, uncivilized, uncultured, enemy, slave or inherently inferior"' Although Melbaa is a pseudoynm, Melbaa's book and Hassen's comments are discussed [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=gCxLwdmLNMIC&pg=PA266&lpg=PA266&dq=Gadaa+Melbaa&source=bl&ots=TFq737tmWE&sig=NLJgTublR1gIzTmHiBq8ddwVPvY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjpvOGepLrQAhXEVRoKHSNdBfo4ChDoAQgwMAQ#v=onepage&q=Gadaa%20Melbaa&f=false here] by Oromo specialist Professor Asafa Jalata [http://web.utk.edu/~ajalata/]. These are reliable sources by our criteria.
:::I'd like a source for the quote using the word "heathen", which seems in this context to mean non-Muslim. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]]
::::@Doug Weller: Indeed, will do. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 16:57, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
:::::[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], When choosing sources you have to be carefull because there are also writers who write for their own agenda such as for ethnic nationalism, secionism, advocacy, propaganda, divide and rule etc and the source you use must not be questionable and exceptional for exceptional claim as per wiki rule [[WP:QS]], [[WP:EXCEPTIONAL]], [[WP:ADVOCACY]], [[WP:ONUS]] and [[WP:IMPARTIAL]]. Why would I take one source saying people with Oromo blood didnot have any place in Ethiopian government when the fact is the Oromos were on top of the system, when they also conquered Amhara people, taxed Amhara peasants/serfs and when they were actually lords of Amhara people. Since articles need to be neutral (not advocating for ethnic nationalists) there are also reliable sources saying Oromos being lords of Amhara people and what should we do about these sources? not include them? You have removed the content which says "The grand son of the Tigrayan Emperor Yohanis kissing the feet of the Oromo Lij Eyasu Mikael Ali Aba Bula before arresting him" and based on wiki rule NPOV then this information is also important, why do you delete it? Why do you want people to get only what ethnic nationalists are saying i.e. Oromos inferior when they were also masters of Amhara & Tigrayan people as recorded by history which is also another fact Oromo children should know? By the way Which specific source and page number did you use to add the ethnic stereotypes? I may need that source to be reviewd by other editors if it i qualifies under [[WP:QS]] and [[WP:EXCEPTIONAL]]. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 17:37, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
{{od}}
@EthiopianHabesha: Instead of these lectures, identify additional specific reliable source(s) on "Galla and Oromo" whose summary would improve this article. I would welcome that. On the rest, don't accuse me or any other wiki editor about doing something without edit-diffs. That "kissing the feet" etc part is still in the article, see the last line for example, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oromo_people#History of this tagged section]. We can discuss that in a separate talk page section. Let us focus on Galla and Oromo nomenclature here. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 18:23, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
:{{re|EthiopianHabesha}} No, sources do not have to be neutral. It appears that you don't understand NPOV or [[WP:RS]], or perhaps any of the links. And it isn't up to editors to decide who is an ethnic nationalist. Question - which sources do you think fail [[WP:QS]]? We are really getting nowhere here. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 19:23, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
::[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], I was giving you alternative information, written by writers whom I believe are neutrals, that contradict with your view (because your view does influnce on how you edit) as per Wiki rules urging editors to reach consensus and collaborate to edit wikipedia articles. This is why I am bringing all these examples & sources and I am not trying to lecture anyone, please discuss with respect. As for the "kiss the feet" it is because you mentioned about it in the edit summary here [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Oromo_people&type=revision&diff=750462642&oldid=750403084] saying "we need to focus on Oromo people not "kissed X's feet before arresting him"" meaning you want that phrase be excluded while you support the addition of ethnic stereotypes i.e. how the people were perceived by neighbours or Europeans in the past and in present instead of making the article focus on social & government sponsored systems if there is any applied on people with Oromo ancestry in general (like Apartheid & Indian Caste social system with the untouchables in the bottom of the caste system who still today exist) that discriminated people by their tribe and class background from equally participating in the economy & political leadership of a nation. The sources I provided above shows clearly people with Oromo blood being on top the government, economy, military & social system of the nation. It is upto to you to accept or deny these facts but that is what the history book is saying. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 09:15, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
{{od}}
[[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]], I checked the sources placed next to the phrase containing ethnic stereotypes and not Sure which specific source Ms Sarah used to add them, asked her above from which specific source & page number it is found and am waitin for her response. I went though the links found in the sources and did not find them there. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 09:27, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

:{{ping|EthiopianHabesha}} The specific sources are cited in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oromo_people#Origins Origins section] (reference [5] and [11]-[24]), with specific page numbers, in [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Oromo_people&oldid=750958611 this] version of this article. If you can't locate or understand them, please get help from [[WP:RX]] and [[WP:TEAHOUSE]]. On rest, please stop being vague and disruptive with your [[WP:TE|tendentious arguments]]. You have alleged [[WP:QS]]. You have been asked to support your allegation by providing specifics, yet you don't. Please identify the specific source or page number(s) you have issues on "Galla and Oromo" related content. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 14:20, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
::[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], instead of personal attack why don't you just address the issues I raised? And Pls don't remind me to join Tea house on your every post because I know how wikipedia works. My issue is very simple to understand which has got to do with the importance of information added that needs to get consensus as per wiki rule [[WP:ONUS]] which states that verifiablity does not guarantee inclusion, and as per wiki rule [[WP:BRD]] which states that editors need to collaborate & discuss before editing how is it difficult to wait for our discussion to be over and wait for other editors from wikipedia Africa project & TAD give their opinion? You cannot force as to accept only your edit & say you cannot modify my edit and keep on resisting to accept others opinion and contributions because that would be against what Wikipedia stands for. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 15:05, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
:::{{re|EthiopianHabesha}} I can't address your vague issues and confusion. Neither WP:QS nor WP:ONUS applies here. For reasons, please see @Doug Weller's comment above on Galla and Oromo. Go ahead try [[WP:ANI]] or Project Africa etc. Meanwhile, you misunderstand WP:BRD. It does not imply a right for you to edit war with multiple editors to revert any wikipedia article to a version that is unsourced or travel guide etc sourced content because it matches your personal opinions / prejudices / wisdoms. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 15:32, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
:::: Reason why I keep on reverting was explained above in detail even by providing examples and has got to do with the content you added and it is not to restore the content you said is sourced by a travel site. Even if you have issues with the source used you could have tagged it citation needed and or better source is needed, and if your issues is with the content then you could have said I don't agree with it because of X & Y reason then probably I might search better sources and try to improve the article by discussion & consensus instead of you keep on insisting to apply only your version. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 15:57, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
{{od}}
[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], there is this better source defining the ethnic name in detail with 35 books mentioning the work in Google books [https://www.google.com.et/search?q=%22The+Origins+of+the+Galla+and+Somali+tribes%22&source=lnms&tbm=bks&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjc9ZPxxbzQAhXpqlQKHUujDz0Q_AUIDigA] and quoted in google search 564 times [https://www.google.com.et/search?q=%22The+Origins+of+the+Galla+and+Somali+tribes%22&oq=%22The+Origins+of+the+Galla+and+Somali+tribes%22&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i61&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8]. I read the research paper and the way the writer presented his research is in a balanced tone and included various researchers view. Here are some quotations extracted from the research:

'''1)''' ''Dr. Ludwig Krapf states that this word (Galla) means "to go home," and Miss A. Wernher has recently suggested the Galla words of farewell Agum ngalla corroborates this statement.''

'''2)''' ''Abyssinians however derive the Galla from an Abyssinian lady of rank who was given in marriage to a slave from Gurague to whom she bore seven sons who became dreaded robbers and the founders of tribes inhabiting the country about the river Galla whence they took their name. ''

'''3)''' '' Moslem tradition has it that Galla are Meccan Arabs who settled on the East Coast of Africa during the Wakt-el-Jahiliveh, or Time of Ignorance, and that their name is derived from the reply of Ullabu, their Chief, to the summons of the Phophet calling on the tribe to accept Al-Islam, the messenger returning stated " He said ' No ' " (Gha la) — an example of the Moslem love of philological analogy.''

'''4)''' ''It is interesting, however, to note the similarity between the Galla word for both God and Sky, Wak, and the idol Wak of the pre-islamic pantheon at Mecca, of which the Kaaba alone survives; and again the Galla legend of a Kitab or Holy Book, to the loss of which they ascribe the fallen fortunes of their race. The Galla themselves aver that in the beginning of their history they crossed a great sea or lake, the Bed Sea. A story of kingship and a coronation feast is told, and women, as in the early history of Arabia, have held princely rank.''

'''5)''' ''Probably those Galla whose southward route lay near the East Coast of Africa and who are now found along the Tana Eiver and in the neighbourhood of Witu are correctly described by Dr. Krapf as " more primitive " than those of Abyssinia whom he met during his activities there between 1838 and 1842, in that they are the relicts of the early migrants and had little contact with the races of Abyssinia. Incidentally Dr. Krapf, himself a German, described the Galla as the '- Germans of Africa."''

The whole of the reserch can be seen here [https://archive.org/stream/cbarchive_101750_theoriginsofthegallaandsomalit1924/No._19_6_1924_Barton_djvu.txt]

Therfore, as can be seen above and as researched by a neutral researcher named Barton,C. Juxon the meaning of Galla have different meanings and if we must discuss the meaning in this article then we need to include all these meanings as per wiki rule [[NPOV]], and if we cannot include them all may be just leave all definitions all together and say simply "the name Galla has different definitions and that after 1970s it was no more used because it was a name applied on Oromos by neighbouring people". — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 16:01, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

:{{re|EthiopianHabesha}} Barton's paper is from September 1924, which is dated to be [[WP:HISTRS]]. Any way, I have summarized it as well for now. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 16:56, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
::{{re|EthiopianHabesha}} As you state that Barton is a neutral researcher, you must know his biographical details. Could you please share them with us? Thanks. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 12:03, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
:::[[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]], firstly I have seen his work and the way he presented his research is to just share knowledge and not to make one tribe victim & innocent and demonise other tribes as some writers write with political agenda. Secondly, his name shows that he is not from the Horn region. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 14:48, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
{{od}}
[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], we need consensus as to which source we should take for the translation of the term 'Galla', Barton,C. Juxon or Mohamed Hassan as per [[WP:ONUS]]? Mohamed Hassan for the translation of the name is quoting a writer called Kesete Tesema Berhan in his book page 3 and my search for this writer under google book & google search is as follows [https://www.google.com.et/search?q=Kesete+Tesema+Berhan&oq=Kesete+Tesema+Berhan&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=%22Kesete+Tesema+Berhan%22][https://www.google.com.et/search?q=Kesete+Tesema+Berhan&oq=Kesete+Tesema+Berhan&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=%22Kesete+Tesema+Berhan%22] which shows that the quoted work is not notable. We have to choose between notable work i.e. of Barton,C. Juxon against a research that is not notable and not quoted by well known historians. Note that the way you added the content is by saying "''the name Galla is translated.....''" therefore Barton,C. Juxon was focusing on the translation of the term ''Galla'' while Mohamed Hassan & the other writers he quoted were focusing on stereotypes associated with ethnic name. To translate let say the term ''India'' we say India is a term that was used by Greeks after modifying the word ''Hindu'' and Hindu is a Persian word derived from the Sanskrit word Sindhu used to refer Indus river[https://www.google.com.et/webhp?num=100&hl=en&biw=1440&bih=775&gws_rd=cr&ei=Cps1WKeRFsOWmQGTwYco#hl=en&q=what+is+the+term+India] but you can not translate the term India by the negative stereotypes associated with Indian people by past Greek writers or other Europeans. I hope you got my point! — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 13:48, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
:{{re|EthiopianHabesha}} Mohamed Hassan's publication is RS, his review of other's people's work makes Galla-Oromo nomenclature discussion notable. That suffices, yet, I have added two more peer reviewed scholarly sources. Please don't evade @Doug Weller's question. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 14:21, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
::[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], didn't you see the rule [[WP:ONUS]]? It says source being RS does not guarantee inclusion and there should be consensus and we could invite more editors from the Africa project & TAD and they will decide if we can not be able to get consensus. The additional sources you added also are defining a term with a stereotype, and let me ask you do you think stereotypes can be used to define an ethnic name? Pls respond ''Yes'' or ''No''. As I said above the term ''India'' is Greek (not an Indian language) word in which Indians didnot identify themselves with it before 500 years and also Hindu is Persian language, now when you define the term Galla first you have to indicate what languages is it derived from? is it Arabic? Somali? Amharic? then what was it used to refer initially is it to refer river like Sindhu was initially used to refer Indus river? However, what you did was use stereotypes to define a term. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 15:23, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
:::{{re|EthiopianHabesha}} I have already answered your puzzling claims to WP:ONUS, [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Oromo_people&diff=750968425&oldid=750965167 above]. Your replies do not make sense, see WP:TALK and WP:CENSOR. If Oromo-Galla name change was because of historic persecution and stereotyping of the Oromo people, and this is discussed by numerous reliable sources (as it is), then this article is better if it includes that summary. This talk is not a place for your prejudices/wisdoms/opinions on other wiki articles. Given @Doug Weller's comments so far on this talk page, the plurality of view is to keep the Galla-Oromo discussion and sources. I suggest you try [[WP:ANI]], as Project Africa and WP:TAD are not the appropriate venue. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 15:40, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
:::: [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], I used examples so that the issue I raised is understood clearly. By the way none of the sources you used says "''the term Galla is derived from X language which initially means Y and later used to refer Z people''" similar to any of wikipedia past & present ethnic names are defined. If there is one source you believed has defined the term like this precisely pls bring the quotation below for discussion. As for Mohamed Hassan quoting Kesete Tesema Berhan then we need to see the original quoted work to see if his statement is not paraphrased out of context. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 15:53, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
:::::{{re|EthiopianHabesha}} You are mistaken in more ways than one. Read the language in the article and supporting multiple sources carefully. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 16:07, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
::::::Barton is indeed not from the Horn region. He was British civil servant in Kenya. When he transferred to Fiji, he was described as ", a man with pronounced racialist attitudes who was opposed to even the leading Fijian chiefs fraternising with Europeans in Suva clubs." As for "Mohamed Hassan", he's the source we need to decide about, not his own sources. Not the dictionary, although I can find a number of sources for the dictionary. You've made the mistake of assuming that there was only one spelling for his name. See[https://www.google.co.uk/search?sclient=psy-ab&safe=off&client=opera&hs=99c&btnG=Search&q=Kesete+Tesema+Berhan+amharic#safe=off&tbm=bks&q=Kesete%7CTessema++amharic+dictionary] for one spelling. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 16:58, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
::::::I'll add that this is getting tiring, heading towards disruptive. And repeat that we do not need to see the dictionary. But by all means, if you are going to continue to argue this, go to [[WP:RSN]]. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 16:59, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
{{od}}
[[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]], could you share with us the source you used to describe Burton's atitude. It is hard to beleive a racist man writing a book picturing African tribes by saying they are like Europeans. You may see his research saying that "the Oromos are like Germans of Africa". I am not here for disrupting and am only here so that we have an article that makes sense and with equal standard with other similar wikipedia articles. In addition to the quality of the articles I am arguing for the sake of peace in my home country & the region as a whole. Just imagine what will happen to minority Tutsis & White South Africans if we have wikipedia article saying these minorities did OR are still picturing (stereotype) the majority Hutus and black South Africans as barbarian & savage people. In another example imagine adding a statement saying Muslim Americans picture (sterotype) Americans as heathen or infidel people by quoating a reliable source. You don't find such kind of stereotypes in those articles not because there is lack of reliable sources but it is avoided as per wiki rule [[WP:ONUS]]. If [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] beleives that such kind of sterotypes are aproporiate to add in wiki articles why is she not adding them up also in [[Zulu people]], [[Hutu people]] and [[Islam in America]] article when there are numerous reliable sources available, why only here? Note that no one saved the Tutsis and also the white Zumababwans so do Ethiopians if there is any destablisation in the region. Once again I am using examples related to this topic i.e. are such kind of stereotypes are aproporiate or not based wiki rule [[WP:ONUS]] which state that ''verfiablity doesnot guarantee inclusion'' and which further says ''The onus to achieve consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content''. Thank you. - [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]])
:My source is [https://openresearch-repository.anu.edu.au/bitstream/1885/9925/1/Norton_HistoricalTrajectory2009.pdf this]. Please stop talking about other articles. Go edit them if you wish but they aren't relevant here. On the other hand, responding to what I write might be useful. The dictionary quote seems a reliable source, if you don't think it is, go to [[WP:RSN]]. I have no idea what "Probably those Galla whose southward route lay near the East Coast of Africa and who are now found along the Tana Eiver and in the neighbourhood of Witu are correctly described by Dr. Krapf as " more primitive " than those of Abyssinia whom he met during his activities there between 1838 and 1842, in that they are the relicts of the early migrants and had little contact with the races of Abyssinia. Incidentally Dr. Krapf, himself a German, described the Galla as the '- Germans of Africa." Of course that doesn't help us understand what he meant at all, so it's pretty useless. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 17:08, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
::[[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]], thanks for providing the source. However, Barton's research is peer reviewed and published by ''Journal of The East Africa and Uganda Natural History Society'' and this research of him is notable while the book quoted by Mohamed Hassan is not notable. Searching kesete Berhan Tesema in google books, web result and article archivers does not mention his name and even his work. Moreover no other historian, who published their work in English, quotes Kesete's work except Mohamed Hassan as the google book result shows while the research published in the scientific journal is quoted by 33 books and web result brings 554 results.[https://www.google.com/search?q=%22The+Origins+of+the+Galla+and+Somali+tribes%22&biw=1385&bih=743&source=lnms&tbm=bks&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwipsND5v8PQAhVBRiYKHTEyC0cQ_AUIDCgA][https://www.google.com/search?q=The+Origins+of+the+Galla+and+Somali+tribes&oq=The+Origins+of+the+Galla+and+Somali+tribes&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i64l2&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=%22The+Origins+of+the+Galla+and+Somali+tribes%22] Besides, if we study the personal background of past European writers almost all have racist attitudes and if we exclude sources based on writers personal attitude then the world would not have a history to tell. As for the other articles I don't want to add such kind of stereotypes in any other articles and what am saying is if [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] strongly believes they are appropriate then why is she not adding them there by saying X & Y tribe name were in the past associated by similar streotypes but those tribes still continued to use the name though? Wikipedia urges editors to be impartial and avoid undue weight i.e. to say ''it is appropriate to add such kind of stereotypes in this article while adding them in the other article is not appropriate''. I see these kind of stereotypes in propaganda leaflets to provoke ethnic violence and I personally believe in telling history by saying there is this X & Y government or Social system/law that discriminated/segregated or promoted people fairly & unfairly if there is any to tell as the history of the people. Thank you — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 09:28, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

:::{{re|EthiopianHabesha}}Please read what I write more carefully. I told you that you were making a mistake in searching for the author of the Amharic dictionary. You are assuming that there is only one spelling for his name, and that's just wrong. I gave [https://www.google.co.uk/search?sclient=psy-ab&safe=off&client=opera&hs=99c&btnG=Search&q=Kesete+Tesema+Berhan+amharic#safe=off&tbm=bks&q=Kesete%7CTessema++amharic+dictionary this link] to you above, even just [https://www.google.co.uk/search?sclient=psy-ab&safe=off&client=opera&hs=99c&btnG=Search&q=Kesete+Tesema+Berhan+amharic#safe=off&tbm=bks&q=Kesete+++amharic+dictionary kesete} turns up sources using his dictionary. "Notable" isn't a word we use in conjunction with sources, by the way. You've got another problem. You say that [https://www.google.com/search?q=The+Origins+of+the+Galla+and+Somali+tribes&oq=The+Origins+of+the+Galla+and+Somali+tribes&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i64l2&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=%22The+Origins+of+the+Galla+and+Somali+tribes%22 this link] produces 554 results. Well, when I do it I see the figure 551. When I actually to look at them by going to page 2 I find only 15. Two of those are Facebook pages. One is the Oromo article and there are copies of that included in the 15. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 13:20, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

::::{{re|EthiopianHabesha}} Here is a [http://www.jstor.org/stable/41966006 scholarly review] of Hassan's book cited in this article. The review writer, Guluma Gemeda, states, "Mohammed Hassen's ''The Oromo of Ethiopia'' is a very timely and significant contribution....". That a journal published a review, and that Hassen's 1990 book has been published by Cambridge University Press, makes that 1990 source notable and RS for this article (regardless of what your personal feelings/prejudices/wisdoms may be). Beside Hassan, there are numerous other WP:RS which are saying the same thing, of which I have cited two. For the rest of your tiresome repetitions and misunderstandings, see the replies by @Doug Weller and I above. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 13:22, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
:::::[[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]], thanks for the links provided. However, the links say the dictionary is published in 1958 while Hassan said 1970. By the way if you see Mohamed Hassan's book he said he quoted the definition from another source indicated in the footnotes at the same page. Therofore, Mohamed Hassan is telling us that he did not see the dictionary himself but quoted another writer by the name Toleeraa Tasmaa whose document is published in "pberna printing", and searching this reviewer or printing organisation in google web result brings no result [https://www.google.com/webhp?num=100&hl=en&biw=1440&bih=775&gws_rd=cr&ei=oEg4WPn0J8bfmAGvwKXICA#hl=en&q=%22pberna+printing%22] also searching google books if any book quoted a research work published by this printing organisation brings also only 1 result which is that of Hassan's work [https://www.google.com/search?q=%22pberna+printing%22&hl=en&biw=1385&bih=743&source=lnms&tbm=bks&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi7_vOhjcTQAhUqqFQKHZrhAacQ_AUIDCgB]. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 14:31, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
::::::[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], with respect why don't you concentrate on issues presented instead of proving your points by attacking editors by repeatedly saying they have prejudices & low wisdom. I beleive it is you who have prejudices because you don't want to include such kind of stereotypes, inspite of numerous available RS found in Google books, written on [[Zulu people]] of SA for instance? You want to protect the White & Indian minorities found there but you don't care on the minorities found in Oromo dominated territories. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 14:44, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
:::::::Take Hassan's book to [[WP:RSN]] if you wish. Right now you're also attacking an editor and without grounds. Where does she say she wants to protect White and Indian minorities? [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] <!--Template:Undated--><small class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 14:58, 25 November 2016 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
{{od}}
[[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]], firstly I appreciate you trying to help in solving my issues with Ms Sarah. Usually in talk pages I avoid teasing editors and only criticise & question the content & sources presented. However, if you have seen Ms Sarah's comment she avoids dealing with the issues presented and rather continued to tease me by saying I have prejudices (still did not explain why she said that), low wisdom and even keep on urging that I should take orientation in tea house because she thinks I don't know how wikipedia works. And in response to her claim that I have prejudice (while claiming she has no prejudice) I brought that topic so that she proves her good faith editing as per wiki rule [[WP:GOODFAITH]]. I was simply asking her a question why she want such kind of stereotypes in here but not in Zulu people? She could say "I did not put it there because X & Y reason but it is appropriate to add them here for this and that reasons" instead of personal attack. To summarise this topic, what I was arguing about is somehow similar to the topic should we add the phrase: "Muslims view Americans as heathen or infidel people" on United States article by quoting a RS who is quoting extremist's publication? I mean yes it is true there are some muslim Americans who have these kind of view but should we add it anyways? We were discussing them as per [[WP:ONUS]] and if we cannot reach consensus then may be I will try [[WP:RSN]]. Thanks for the help anyways — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 09:54, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
:{{re|EthiopianHabesha]] Those are inappropriate questions. Please don't discuss other articles here. The article makes it clear that "heathen" was used to mean "non-Muslim". This isn't a stereo-type. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 15:26, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
::[[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]], I used related examples to make the issue more clear. Heathen is only one of them, what about the other outdated stereotypes? Hassan book is published by Cambridge university? Where did [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] got that information? The book is published by Boydell & Brewer publishers [https://books.google.com.et/books?id=fg1zCgAAQBAJ&source=gbs_navlinks_s] — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 16:50, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
:::{{re|EthiopianHabesha}} Books get republished. It was originally a CUP book.[http://www.worldcat.org/title/oromo-of-ethiopia-a-history-1570-1860/oclc/924777687?referer=di&ht=edition] 'Heathen' is not being used as a stereotype. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 17:09, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
{{od}}
[[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]], ok then but we can agree that Hassan quoted another writer's work which is published in unknown organisation for his statement "Kesete Berhan dictionary translated...." (in which [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] relied to add content here saying "...is translated...."). Ms Sarah in DRN is suggesting Hassan did check the dictionary while he himself stated he quoted that phrase from Toleeraa Tasmaa whose work is published in Pberna printing as can be seen here [https://books.google.com.et/books?id=fg1zCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA3&dq=%22Quoted+in+Toleeraa+Tasmaa%22+%22pberna+printing%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjEl7W7ys3QAhXGMyYKHcCIBZMQ6AEIMzAA#v=onepage&q=%22Quoted%20in%20Toleeraa%20Tasmaa%22%20%22pberna%20printing%22&f=false]. If he has checked the dictioanry then why not list Kesete's work in the footnote? This is obviously poor reputation for fact checking on both the writer and the editors part which would be against [[WP:QUESTIONABLE]] [[WP:GOODFAITH]]. Anyways, considering 1,000s of literatures using the term Galla and wikipedia being an encyclopedia where people come here to answer their question of what is the term 'Galla' then my opinion is we find another source which properly defines the term by saying "''it is derived from X language which initially used to refer Y''" as per [[WP:EXTRAORDINARY]] which states ''any exceptional claim requires multiple high-quality sources (multiple mainstream sources)''. My opinion is exclude the disputed content until we define the term while leaving stereotypes associated with people (Note: all the 2,000 ethnic-groups of people in Africa have stereotypes applied on them by all their neighbors and Wikipedia being a collaborative enterprise it will be upto wikipedia editors to decide on weather including them in the article improves the article or not as per [[WP:ONUS]]. Doug Weller, please provide your recommendation or proposal. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 10:18, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
:{{re|EthiopianHabesha}} If you don't think Hassan's book is a reliable source take it to [[WP:RSN]]. He's not questionable or self-published source and "good faith" doesn't apply to sources. WP:Extraordinary doesn't apply here either. Our sources do not stereotype anyone, they say the name "has been translated by other ethnic groups as "pagan, savage, inferior, enemy",[19][20][21] and "heathen, that is non-Muslim"." That's a huge difference. The article is not sterotyping anyone. And why are you here while the dispute resolution process is going on? [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 11:43, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
::[[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]], I came back here after [[User:Robert McClenon|Robert McClenon]] advise stating "Wikipedia is a collaborative enterprise" where articles are edited by discussion & consensus i.e. by carefully analyzing contents even if they are RS (based on [[WP:GOODFAITH]], [[WP:ONUS]] and [[WP:DUE]] rules), by bringing many quotations from multiple sources here in this talkpage from various writers for discussion instead of relying only on one writer, then finally everyone comes up with precise proposals/recommendations and incase of disagreement invite more editors who specializes with ethnic-group articles to have their say. Instead of following these procedures Ms Sarah was pushing for her version only by attacking an editor, manipulating the issues I raised & not willing to respond/engage to them and accusing with prejudice. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 17:11, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

:::[[User:EthiopianHabesha]] - I haven't reviewed the history in enough detail to be certain, but if [[User:Doug Weller]] cautions you, I would take his caution seriously. In my own experience, [[User:Ms Sarah Welch]] has been a reasonable editor. In any case, if you have been cautioned about [[WP:DE|disruptive editing]] or [[WP:CONSENSUS|consensus]], listen. [[User:Robert McClenon|Robert McClenon]] ([[User talk:Robert McClenon|talk]]) 17:23, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
{{od}}
[[User:Robert McClenon|Robert McClenon]], thanks for the comment. Actually, I have stooped reverting after Doug Weller intervened and after that I tried to solve the issue by discussion here in this talk page and I don't know why he said disruptive. I was bringing related examples so that raised issue is much more clear but not to discuss on what should be done on the other articles. Besides, I have been accused by [[User:Ms Sarah Welch]] of prejudice for reason not explained to me so far, instead why not proof she has no prejudice by treating all wikipedia articles equally i.e. if she strongly believes adding those terms are appropriate here then why is she not adding them on the other related articles when they can be supported with much more high quality sources & in great numbers? Thank you — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 09:19, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
:{{re|EthiopianHabesha}} once again, please do not cast aspersions and allege "she or he or someone accused me of this or that", without edit-diffs. Using an article's talk page as a forum, with walls of irrelevant posts about other articles etc, as abundantly and repeatedly evidenced above, is also a form of disruption of wikipedia. Frankly, you already have the attention and the patience of @Doug Weller and @Robert McClenon, two of the more seasoned and balanced contributors to the wikipedia project. Please listen to them. I am. Let us focus on this article please. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 12:42, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
::EthiopianHabesha, please stop commenting on other editors, and in particular stop telling Ms Welch to edit other articles. I can't see how anyone can add "has been translated by other ethnic groups as "pagan, savage, inferior, enemy" to other articles (as an example). You are not showing good faith, you started the dispute resolution process and abandoned it, wasting everyone's time. And that is not stereotyping anyone. You can't avoid teh reality of how different groups of people react to each other. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 13:11, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
:::[[User:EthiopianHabesha]] - I think that I am finished responding to you (and that isn't good). I see that your comments are not constructive and show ethnic or nationalistic anger. I expect to ignore any more comments on your part, and will let [[User:Doug Weller]] or an [[WP:UNINVOLVED|uninvolved]] administrator save the rest of us time by blocking you when they decide that your comments are disruptive. It doesn't appear that you have anything useful to say, and I will leave the useless comments alone. If you have having a problem posting in English, consider contributing to the Amharic Wikipedia, but I haven't looked up all of the linguistic details. [[User:Robert McClenon|Robert McClenon]] ([[User talk:Robert McClenon|talk]]) 16:16, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
{{od}}
[[User:Robert McClenon|Robert McClenon]], well I have clearly stated above on why I have been arguing i.e. for the quality of articles and for peace in the Horn of Africa and if someone considers this as a nationalistic anger then that is their opinion. I very much appreciate Doug Weller giving more time and attention to this issue than MS Sarah to solve them by discussion and consensus. I tried as much as possible to let know my opinion by explaining precisely & with examples as well as with respect while not offending any editors but rather concentrating on the content presented, and if there is any wrongdoing on my side I will very much appreciate it if I was told precisely on how I violated wiki rules. Thank you. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 09:11, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

====Proposal and Recommendation====

If there is agreement to include the name discussion then I have come up with the following proposal after considering Ms Sarah's contribution and also by adding more content from several sources:

:''Before 1970s the name Galla was used and it’s definition is uncertain as different writers interpret the term differently. According to Barton the word means “to go home” and he states that based on Abyssinian tradition the term Galla is derived from an Abyssinian lady of rank who was given in marriage to a Gurage slave whom she bore seven sons who later became the founders of tribes inhabiting near the river Galla. Another speculated origin, states Barton, for their historic name is from the Muslim tradition, which states that when Muhammad asked them to accept Islam, the chief of this ethnic group said "Gha la" or "no", thus their name "Galla".[https://archive.org/stream/cbarchive_101750_theoriginsofthegallaandsomalit1924/No._19_6_1924_Barton#page/n1/mode/1up] According to Walter and Steffen 'Galla' appears to be a political term more than an ethnic one which is applied to non united groups including Afars and which could include cushitic-speaking groups.[https://books.google.com.et/books?id=JpNY7VPn1WUC&pg=PA432&dq=%22%27Galla%27+appears+to+be+a+political+term+more+than+an+ethnic+one,+applied+to+non+united+groups+(including+Afars%22+%22could+include+Cushitic-speaking%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi_zJyH-9LQAhXKVhQKHRw9D-kQ6AEIGzAA#v=onepage&q=%22'Galla'%20appears%20to%20be%20a%20political%20term%20more%20than%20an%20ethnic%20one%2C%20applied%20to%20non%20united%20groups%20(including%20Afars%22%20%22could%20include%20Cushitic-speaking%22&f=false] Another writer, Mohammed Hassan, states that the label Galla for them is a stereotype and has been translated by other ethnic groups to mean "heathen, that is non-Muslim" and the name is also attached to derogatory stereotypes.[https://books.google.com/books?id=fg1zCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA2] On the other hand, Fargher states that before the revolution "Galla" was used by Europeans without any derogatory connotations.[https://books.google.com.et/books?id=jWLOtldQzOEC&pg=PA272&dq=%22before+the+Revolution+%22Galla%22+was+used+by+Europeans+without+any+derogatory+connotations.%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj_ytDu-9LQAhVJ6xQKHc_sB-sQ6AEIGzAA#v=onepage&q=%22before%20the%20Revolution%20%22Galla%22%20was%20used%20by%20Europeans%20without%20any%20derogatory%20connotations.%22&f=false] However, the term is considered pejorative and Oromos resist it’s use. The Oromo do not identify themselves as Galla and they traditionally identified themselves by one of their clans (gosas), and in contemporary times have used the common umbrella term of Oromo which connotes "Sons of men".[https://www.google.com.et/search?hl=en&tbm=bks&q=oromo+%22sons+of+men%22&oq=oromo+%22sons+of+men%22&gs_l=serp.3...15459.16217.0.17388.4.4.0.0.0.0.238.459.2-2.2.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..2.0.0.RbRiPZdnL-8]''

I came up with the above proposal based on wiki rule [[WP:IMPARTIAL]] stating that content should be presented in an impartial tone and not in a way to advocate and also based on these rules: [[WP:GOODFAITH]], [[WP:ADVOCACY]], [[WP:ONUS]] and [[WP:DUE]]. If [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] and [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] have opinions or suggestions on the content presented please kindly do so. Thank you — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 12:39, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

:@EthiopianHabesha: Your wording is inconsistent with the sources (e.g. "now considered pejorative" implies it wasn't in the past), and unclear. I have checked your sources, and added two sentences: one based on Didier Morin, and other based on Brian Fargher. We need to keep the second sources, given the relevance and importance of "Galla versus Oromo" nomenclature to Oromo people, per reliable sources. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 14:09, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
:{{re|EthiopianHabesha}} You [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Oromo_people&diff=752482575&oldid=752479614 reverted] the following addition, which tried to collaboratively include two sources from your proposal above:
::According to Didier Morin, the word ''Galla'' may have been a political term and derived from ''Galli'', which means both "foreigners" and carries derogatory connotation "ordinary, commoner" as opposed to ''moddai'' or "high descent".<ref name="RaunigWenig2005">{{cite book|author=Didier Morin|editor=Walter Raunig and Steffen Wenig|title=Afrikas Horn|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=JpNY7VPn1WUC&pg=PA432|year=2005|publisher=Otto Harrassowitz Verlag|isbn=978-3-447-05175-0|page=432}}</ref> The term ''Galla'' was also used by European missionaries before the [[Ethiopian Civil War|1974 revolution]] without any derogatory connotations.<ref>{{cite book|author=Brian L. Fargher|title=The Origins of the New Churches Movement in Southern Ethiopia: 1927 - 1944 |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=jWLOtldQzOEC&pg=PA272 |year=1996|publisher=BRILL Academic|isbn=90-04-10661-8|pages=272 footnote 82}}</ref>
:Comments? [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 14:34, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
{{reflist-talk}}
::[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], please wait until the discussion is over before you make edit and let's try to work together, and if we cannot be able to reach consensus then we request RFC so that various uninvolved editors with various views have their say. If we are here to edit articles without prejudice then discussion before edit will not hurt anyone. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 15:14, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
:::@EthiopianHabesha: Instead of [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ms_Sarah_Welch&diff=752486601&oldid=752485412 repeating] the same "discuss this" message, every half hour, can you please discuss? [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 15:35, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
::::[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] We can change "now pejorative" to just "pejorative", I wrote that to show it is still pejorative. Any other issues with the proposal? As for Didier Morin, why do you oppose the term being used on cushitic people in general that also includes Afar as the source said it here [https://books.google.com.et/books?id=JpNY7VPn1WUC&pg=PA432&dq=%22%27Galla%27+appears+to+be+a+political+term+more+than+an+ethnic+one,+applied+to+non+united+groups+(including+Afars%22+%22could+include+Cushitic-speaking%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi_zJyH-9LQAhXKVhQKHRw9D-kQ6AEIGzAA#v=onepage&q=%22'Galla'%20appears%20to%20be%20a%20political%20term%20more%20than%20an%20ethnic%20one%2C%20applied%20to%20non%20united%20groups%20(including%20Afars%22%20%22could%20include%20Cushitic-speaking%22&f=false]? You took ....political term... from this phrase and joined it with one of the various definitions the writer proposed which I left them because they are already addressed by the other writers and dont want to repeat them. My idea is to present the various views by mentioning all writers name as per impartial tone and no [[Advocacy]] — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 15:43, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
{{od}}
@EthiopianHabesha: You misunderstand WP:ONUS, WP:ADVOCACY etc guidelines, and these do not give you (or me) a right to be convinced, or for you to label reliable sources you don't like, and summary from reliable sources you don't like, as advocacy, etc. Your proposed version is unclear, do not properly and adequately reflect the sources. I suggest we just add the two sentences above. Do you have any specific concerns with those two sentences? Yes, we can add a bit more from the Didier Morin chapter including the politics in the history section, which is where more summary from Morin belongs. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 16:12, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
:[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], regarding the two sentences:

:Here is the exact wording of Didier Morin's conclusion on the term as published on a book written by Walter and Steffen without modification:

::''In other cases, especially when dealing with the collective origin of the former inhabitants, 'Galla' appears to be a political term more than an ethnic one, applied to non united groups (including Afars, as in Gallamir!). It could include Cushitic-speaking groups......''[https://books.google.com.et/books?id=JpNY7VPn1WUC&pg=PA432&dq=%22%27Galla%27+appears+to+be+a+political+term+more+than+an+ethnic+one,+applied+to+non+united+groups+(including+Afars%22+%22could+include+Cushitic-speaking%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi_zJyH-9LQAhXKVhQKHRw9D-kQ6AEIGzAA#v=onepage&q=%22'Galla'%20appears%20to%20be%20a%20political%20term%20more%20than%20an%20ethnic%20one%2C%20applied%20to%20non%20united%20groups%20(including%20Afars%22%20%22could%20include%20Cushitic-speaking%22&f=false]

:Now that is what is exactly found in the book and I don't think there is any concern on this part from you, if so we can discuss them.

:Here is your summary:
::''According to Didier Morin, the word Galla may have been a political term and derived from Galli, which means both "foreigners" and carries derogatory connotation "ordinary, commoner" as opposed to moddai or "high descent".''

:And here is my summary:
::''According to Walter and Steffen 'Galla' appears to be a political term more than an ethnic one which is applied to non united groups including Afars and which could include cushitic-speaking groups.''

:I preferred to summerise the writers conclusion on the term instead of all the data presented prior i.e. the term Galli's various definitions used for analysis and used by the writer to come to conclusion of on what is the term Galla. When presenting scientific research we present only the conclusion of the research made by the researcher but not go into datas and summerize our-self while ignoring the researcher's conclusion. Note that Morin concluded that the term Galla is not equal to Oromo and the writer used ''Political term'' for the former inhabitants.

:Here are specific concerns:
:'''1)''' Why do you exclude Morin's conclusion (in which the word 'political' is associated with) as to mean cushitic people that also includes Afar, and instead include the Galli definition (Afars definition of the term Galli)?
:'''2)''' For the second sentence why add "''missionaries''" and say "''European missionaries''" when the source says "''before the Revolution "Galla" was used by Europeans without any derogatory connotations.''" [https://books.google.com.et/books?id=jWLOtldQzOEC&pg=PA272&dq=%22before+the+Revolution+%22Galla%22+was+used+by+Europeans+without+any+derogatory+connotations.%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj_ytDu-9LQAhVJ6xQKHc_sB-sQ6AEIGzAA#v=onepage&q=%22before%20the%20Revolution%20%22Galla%22%20was%20used%20by%20Europeans%20without%20any%20derogatory%20connotations.%22&f=false]
:'''3)''' As for the proposal do you have any other specific issues? — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 09:41, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

::@EthiopianHabesha: Sections need to be coherent to the reader. In the nomenclature section, we are trying to coherently summarize the information on Galla being the common name/reference for the Oromo people over most of their known history, what it meant according to different sources and what led to the name change to Oromo. Please reread the Didier Morin's book's page 432. There, on the first half of that page, lines 2 to 21 (2a-b, 2c), you will find the nomenclature-relevant information and direct support for my summary. Similarly, read the sentences and pages that precede that footnote, providing the context in Brian Fargher's ''The Origins of the New Churches Movement in Southern Ethiopia'' book. It is not about all Europeans, it is about European missionaries and their effort to establish churches. Footnotes always must be read and summarized without losing their context. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 12:35, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
::<small>ps: fwiw, we have already summarized the 'political term' part as.... "According to Didier Morin, the word Galla may have been a political term (...)" [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 13:08, 2 December 2016 (UTC)</small>
:::[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], as section name ''nomenclature'' indicates and based on the suggestion that the term 'Galla' must be discussed (though, initially I opposed since 1,000s of writers used it for different purpose and it's definition is determined by the writer and for what purpose the writer is using it) then we have to define the term properly and if intially the term was used to refer a name of a river then that should be discussed and also initially if it was used to refer the Afar people or Agaw people while not Oromo then that also must be mentioned. Wikipedia being an encyclopedia where people come to define terms after they encounter it in any books then we have to be carefull when defining the term so that the reader does not take the book writer's view out of context. As for Morin I was not saying your summary is not found in the book but what I was saying is we should instead take the writer's conclusion on what the term is. You have taken the writers use of "''political term''" to conclude on the Galla definition and joined it with definitions of the term 'Galli' as defined by Afar people, doing that is against [[WP:SYNTH]] rule saying "''Similarly, do not combine different parts of one source to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by the source.''" As for "European missionaries" I read the whole page before & after the footnote and I didnot get that, besides if that is what it means then why not the writer precisely say "by European missionaries" instead of saying simply "by Europeans"? — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 14:49, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
::::@EthiopianHabesha: Sorry, I don't understand you. Let us focus on Morin first. The article currently states,
:::::Quote: According to Didier Morin, the word Galla may have been a political term and derived from Galli, which means both "foreigners" and carries derogatory connotation "ordinary, commoner" as opposed to moddai or "high descent".
::::What is the '''new synth conclusion''' reached or implied in this summary, that is not stated in the Morin source? [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 15:26, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
{{od}}
[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], firstly as per [https://books.google.com.et/books?id=JpNY7VPn1WUC&pg=PA432#v=onepage&q=%22in%20the%20Afar%20language%22&f=false this] we need to agree that the definitions you have added is based on only on the Afar society and their definition of the term 'galli'. This is not mentioned in your summary. Furthermore, Morin is just presenting [https://books.google.com.et/books?id=JpNY7VPn1WUC&pg=PA432#v=onepage&q&f=false here] (in the first paragraph/section) how the term is defined among Afar people and in that paragraph there is no conclusion from Morin and it is just how the Afars defined the term. However, on the second paragrah you have Morin's conclusion explaining clearly why she said "''it appears a political term''" and instead of presenting this conclusion you ignored writers reasoning and preferred to just emphasis on one of Afars definition of the term which they defined it is "ordinary people". Now this is why I said [[WP:SYNTH]] which says "''Similarly, do not combine different parts of one source to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by the source.''". Are you saying that is not Synthesis? When you could have summerised it in [[WP:Goodfaith]] by saying "Afar people defined the term as ……" and in separate sentence "The writer Morin, after going through various sources & explaining how different communities defined the term, concluded that the term appears to be political term……".

In regards to Morin’s statement saying:

''In other cases, especially when dealing with the collective origin of the former inhabitants, 'Galla' appears to be a political term more than an ethnic one, applied to non united groups (including Afars, as in Gallamir!). It could include Cushitic-speaking groups......''

Could you let me know why you opposed the inclusion of summary made from the above conclusion of Morin? — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 10:58, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

:@EthiopianHabesha: I have already explained the reasons for my opposition above. Do you wish we acknowledge Didier Morin's context is the Afar language? [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 13:39, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
::[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], that means you want to include your conclusion of the whole research and exclude the summary of the writer's own conclusion, you may correct me if I am wrong but that is what am getting for the reason of your opposition. If so the question is which conclusion we take the book writer or wikipedia editor? By the way what is the issue on Morin's conclusion found in the second paragraph [https://books.google.com.et/books?id=JpNY7VPn1WUC&pg=PA432#v=onepage&q=%22For%20these%20three%20reasons%22&f=false here]? Why that should not be summerised and be included in the article? — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 12:13, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
:::@EthiopianHabesha: Morin's conclusion is that Galla may have been a '''"political term"''' in parts of Ethiopia, which is what the article is saying. I therefore do not understand your concern. If you want the acknowledgment of Afar language, we can word that in. If you want the acknowledgment of "in Afar, it could have been general Cushitic groups", we can word that in. We just need to be careful in not over-emphasizing Afar language perspective here because it is very similar to Saho-language, with roots closer to Djibouti and Eritrea, which is far from southern regions where Oromo origins and history have been. Please read the whole chapter of Morin on all of this, or look at the demographic maps [https://www.ethnologue.com/language/aar here] and [https://www.ethnologue.com/language/ssy here]. Frankly, we are not making progress because you are evading my questions and repeating yourself in ways that neither reflects this article nor the source we are discussing. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 14:00, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
::::[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], my concern is why censor on Morin's statment saying the term Galla was used to refer Afar people (generally, used to refer all high & low social classes of Afar people) as well as Cushitic speaking groups? Morin mentioned "''political term''" to explain how the term was used in Amda Seyon chronicle, and the word 'political' is not associated with the three definitions defined by the Afar people as 1)crowd (ignored in your summary), 2)foreign and 3)Ordinary people (emphasized in your summary). Therfore, when including 'political' in your summary it should be included based on what the writer is exactly implying and if not it is considered Synthesis. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 17:59, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
{{od}}
@EthiopianHabesha: you keep repeating WP:Synthesis, but evade answering what "new synth conclusion" is made or implied in the article. Are you suggesting that we add "crowd" as additional definition, or add "Cushitic group"-related wording, or both? [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 21:19, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
:[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], all my explanations above was to show and answer your question that what you added in the article as Morin's statment is indeed Synthesis, ''I mean your summary is not what Morin is implying''. What am suggesting is to make a summary on what Morin was exactly saying. Could you propose another summary here for discussion if you donot agree with the following proposed summary:
::''According to Didier Morin 'Galla' appears to be a political term more than an ethnic one which is applied to non united groups including Afars and which could include cushitic-speaking groups.''

:Plan is we discuss and add what we agree on and on those we have disagreement I was hoping to request RFC or invite other editors who specialize in ethnic-group articles or in African history and have their say since wikipedia is a collaborative enterprise. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 08:28, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], those two sentences have been discussed in great length, can we please proceed with other specific issues, if you have other ones, regarding to the proposal found on top of this section. I just want to summerise our discussion and forward it to other editors (RFC) to give their suggestions on those ones we have disagreement. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 09:04, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

:@EthiopianHabesha: If you state something new, I will respond. Else, I will ignore you, as there is no need for me to repeat. Your walls of text with misunderstanding of wikipedia content guidelines, your evading my questions, followed by absurd allegations of WP:Synthesis, WP:Proveit etc, is neither helpful to our discussion nor in improving this article. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 12:16, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
::[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], I have one question, of all the three definitions defined by the Afar people why only one of them ("ordinary people") is emphasised? I beleive all the neighouring people have different definitions for the term and if we begin to include them all the article will bloat, instead why not focus on the ones most literatures use as their sources such Arabic-Islamic, Christian & European literatures and the definitions they apply on the term? — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 13:57, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

:::@EthiopianHabesha: Unbelievable comment again. We now have all the definitions you have asked for including crowd etc (2-a-b). Please read 2-c on the cited page Morin's source, which reads: "ordinary people, commoners' (with the derogatory meaning of Galla vs Oromo) as opposed to moddai 'of high descent'."? I will now stop answering absurd questions of yours that misrepresent sources or don't make any sense. We have had enough of walls of post and repetition. Please listen to admin @Robert McClenon's advice; if you have problem with English, please consider contributing to the Amharic Wikipedia. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 14:34, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
{{od}}
[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], Why this very simple & clear question: "''of all the three definitions by Afars why emphasis in one of them?''" is being responded by personal attack? Note that I didnot say the other definitions are not included, because that is how you are trying to present my question. What I said is "'''emphasis'''" not "'''not included'''", I mean instead of presenting simply as ''Afars defined it as 'crowd', 'foreigner' and 'ordinary people' '' why pick one of them and explain in detail while the others are not? I asked that question because Wikiepdia says the importance of content added or emphasised should be discussed so that it is according to [[WP:DUE]], and if you don't want to answer that very simply question then you could have ignored it instead of trying to convince your POV by bullying (short cut) the editor. And please know that in Ethiopia there are [[Languages of Ethiopia|80 languages]] (and I am fluent in 3 of them) spoken, just incase if you do not have any clue about that before suggesting Amharic. Please be [[WP:CIVIL]] and discuss the content only & not the editor. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 16:03, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], per your request above, here are new contents to be added in the article:
:1) As discussed above the term is interpreted differently so add this in the article: "''it’s definition is uncertain as different writers interpret the term differently.''"

:2) In regards to info quoated from Barton, adjust & add more content from his definitions: "''According to Barton the word means “to go home” and he states that based on Abyssinian tradition the term Galla is derived from an Abyssinian lady of rank who was given in marriage to a Gurage slave whom she bore seven sons who later became the founders of tribes inhabiting near the river Galla.''"

:3) Since writer's name for all different interpretions are mentioned then also add Mohamed Hassan

:4) Summerise all the listed stereotypes as "''the name is also attached to derogatory stereotypes''". This is based on the rule [[WP:IMPARTIAL]] stating that content should be presented in an impartial tone and not in a way to advocate. Also based on [[WP:ONUS]]

:5) Most sources define the term 'Oromo' as to mean 'Sons of men' (Ilma Orma (ilm orma)), so also add this.

If you have opinions on the content presented let's discuss about them. Thank you — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 12:42, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

:@EthiopianHabesha: (1) The article already states "word Galla has been variously interpreted", that is sufficient. (2) read Barton again, it also calls the Oromo people to be from seven tribes of robbers born from that lady and slave etc, but the relevant part there is "named after river Galla" which the article already states. If you feel it is important to include the "lady of rank and tribes of robbers" story, we can word it in somewhere in this article. (3) No need to state Hassan because numerous sources are cited there, and not just Hassan states that. I ignore (4) and (5) for reasons explained above. I suggest we remove Barton as it is not WP:HISTRS and per concerns of @Doug Weller. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 13:07, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
::[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], thanks for the above opinions, responding by just dealing with the content presented. I would very much appreciate it if we just continue with a civilised discussion like that. 1) Any problem with adding 'uncertain'? If you don't want to answer that ignore it, I don't want similar response you gave above (like responding "how dare you ask such kind of questions") 2) Ok then we can skip the story & just make it "''According to Abyssinian tradition it is a reference to a river named Galla''" 3) The issue is it is only Hassan's source that says "''translated''" while the others didnot say it is translated but clearly said the name is "''associated''". Therfore, because there is a great difference between the word 'translated' & 'associated', that sentence with with 'translated' should be attributed as "according to Mohamed Hassan". Ok for 4 & 5 no consensus meaning this one will be taken to other editors or RFC to have their say. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 14:41, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

The term Gala is used by Amharas against the Oromo people, no need to sugar coat it. Create another article about the etymology of Galla, this is the Oromo peoples article. [[User:Duqsene|Duqsene]] ([[User talk:Duqsene|talk]]) 01:24, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

:@Duqsene: Welcome to wikipedia. I agree with [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Oromo_people&diff=prev&oldid=753586144 this] edit of yours, because @EthiopianHabesha's edit made the sentence quite muddled. Let me think about your "not mainstream" comment. @EthiopianHabesha: Nope, multiple sources do state the translation part. The "uncertain" qualifier is not what the numerous reliable sources are stating. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 02:38, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. The overwhelming number of sources point to Gala as the pejorative former name of the Oromo. [https://www.britannica.com/topic/Oromo Encyclopedia Britannica] writes Gala as an alternative name for Oromo. I couldnt find any sources relating to Gala used to denote [[Afar people]] or other Cushitic tribes therefore Morin's view is a minority. This is my opinion. [[User:Duqsene|Duqsene]] ([[User talk:Duqsene|talk]]) 08:21, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

:I reverted you because a check on Gbooks suggests that he's a reliable source by our criteria and the statemoment was clearly attributed. If we can be sure he's not just a minority but the only such source than perhaps it should go. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 10:12, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
::[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], can you please bring the link containing the word 'translated' with pg # and section in sources other than Mohamed's? I have checked the other sources found in the article and all say 'associated'. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 12:51, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
:::Translated as, means, defined as, etc are equivalent. Please see [https://books.google.com/books?id=AuRcBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA205 1] (pages 205-206 with footnotes), [https://books.google.com/books?id=C5qYNSRjqacC&pg=PA139 2] (page 139), [https://books.google.com/books?id=DeD4gruvuNEC&pg=PA178 3] (pages 178, 16-18), [https://books.google.com/books?id=oV5mAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA183 4] (page 183), etc. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 13:27, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
{{od}}
[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], ok then don't mention Hassan. I like the 3 sources you brought above which defined the term with an impartial tone & would have been great if it was also presented like that here in Wikipedia, and that is just an opinion. As for definition of the term 'Oromo' there are reliable sources that say it means "sons of men" while in the article it is different. How do we deal with this issue? Shoudnt we add both? — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 17:01, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
:@EthiopianHabesha: I am fine with adding "Ilma Orma" means "sons of Oromo" or "children of Oromo" (the latter is in Hassan for example, on page 110). Let us not write, 'the word Oromo means "sons of Oromo"...'. It will be confusing to readers because it is a [[reversion]] (as in "sons of [sons of [infinite loop]"). Thats careless writing, and no definition, in other words. Please go ahead with ''Ilma Orma'', with reliable source(s). [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 21:35, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

== Sources and NPOV ==

{{re|EthiopianHabesha}} You need to be much more specific and not discuss other articles, just this one. As you seem to think a travel guide is a good source, I think you may need to read [[WP:RS]] and [[WP:VERIFY]]. Deleting the material on history/origins seems to be a violation of [[WP:NPOV]], how do you justify the deletion? And please don't discuss other articles, if you think they need fixing go to them and fix them. Meanwhile you've now had a 3rd opinion and should leave things as they are until you can get consenses. As an Arbitrator myself I can say that this isn't the sort of case we would take, we don't deal with content disputes. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 09:44, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

== [[Borana calendar]] ==

The url for that didn't work for me but in any case the site is a travel site and my guess is that it keeps a copy of an article in violation of copyright. {{re|EthiopianHabesha}}, did you actually read the source. I really want an answer to this question.

But that's not the biggest problem, the real problem is the article itself, which needs updating. See [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Q9YYqiXm-lkC&pg=PA285&lpg=PA285&dq=%3DThe+Borana+Calendar+Reinterpreted&source=bl&ots=aEqA2NJk2k&sig=ybhqU5_P1ZXZ8vyN93ntE7-pKkg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiP5JSqhLfQAhUKsxQKHUV0DyEQ6AEIMTAE#v=onepage&q=%3DThe%20Borana%20Calendar%20Reinterpreted&f=false this]] by an acknowledged expert in the field. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 09:48, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
:[[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]], the thing is she added a lot of information in which I have disagreement and that travel site is not one of them. I have no opposition if she can remove the source and the content added based on that source. Of the many issues I have with her edit I begun with the importance of information added that has got to do with stereotypes associated with ethnic name. I do have many specific issues but not to complicate the discussion I preferred to settle with this issues first before I proceed with the other specific issues I have with the content she added, modified and deleted. The response I wanted from her is either to say NO or Yes it is important to mention how ethnic groups are perceived by their neighbours or by past European writers for X and Y reason so that we have a very transparent discussion and reach consensus on the matter, and if that is not possible then probably invite more editors to give opinions as to her reasoning for supporting the inclusion of such kind of information on ethnic group pages. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 14:15, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

::{{re|EthiopianHabesha}} This is the wrong section, this is about the calendar. I still have no idea what you are trying to say because you aren't specific enough. Start a new section, place the material you dispute in the new section and specific reasons based on our policies why you don't like it. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 14:32, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
:::[[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]], I was responding to the question i.e. not related to Borana calendar you asked me in this section. I have explained my issues above in detail on why I am reverting Ms Sarahs edit with several posts by giving examples. ''The issue in a nutshell'' is that Ms Sarah added stereotypes such as Pagan, Heathen, Barbarian in this article (you may search these words in the article) and my question for her is what is the importance of adding such kind of stereotypes that were also associated to all African tribes by past European writers here in this and other African tribes article. That is my issue for now, it is very simple question and perhaps you can give me your 3rd opinion by saying ''No'' or ''Yes'' it is important to add them here for X and Y reason. And from that we can begin a transparent discussion. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 14:58, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
::::This section is about the calendar only. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 16:27, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

== Fra Mauro map ==

I think this needs a bit more than the cursory mention. Hassen discusses it in some detail.[https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=fg1zCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA66&lpg=PA66&dq=river+Galla&source=bl&ots=MNZgMu1TRu&sig=oEBVnfDWEprCmMIDncAcxqW3pnA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi_6L_Y7dXQAhVB2xoKHb2mBfUQ6AEIJjAB#v=onepage&q=barton&f=false] [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 15:55, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

:Indeed. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 16:08, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

== The 1908 and Library of Congress maps ==

Copied from my user talk page, for context:
:<small>Ms Sarah, the Map you put in Oromo people article is saying "1908 Map" which contradicts with another map from the United States Library of Congress's [https://www.loc.gov/rr/geogmap/ Geography & Map Division] prepared by [[Edward Hertslet]] before he died in 1902. Compare the maps you put [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:EthiopiaRAND1908.jpg] with the replaced one [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Africa_1909,_Edward_Hertslet_(Map_of_Africa_by_treaty,_3rd_edition).jpg][https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Africa_1909,_Edward_Hertslet_(Horn_of_Africa,_detail).jpg]. When you oppose the replacement are you saying the map found in [[Library of congress]] is inaccurate? — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 14:54, 27 December 2016 (UTC)</small>

{{ping|EthiopianHabesha}} The Library of Congress is a library with zillion maps and more. The image(s) we select for this article should strive to the goals explained at [[MOS:IMAGES]], in terms of "significance, relevance to the topic's context, not primarily decorative, illustrative aid to understanding the section/article". A good image is easy to see, read, understand. Both maps are historic, both show Galla according to two different authors. The 1908 is clearer and offers easier to see Galla-land depiction. The 1902 map doesn't. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 15:14, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

@EthiopianHabesha: So you know, I considered showing both images side by side, 1908 and LoC one. But the LoC map is very difficult to read. If you find another clearer, easier to read map that shows Galla regions, we can add a double image template. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 15:20, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
:[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], you have to acknowledge the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:EthiopiaRAND1908.jpg map you put saying 1908] contradicts with map found in Library of Congress, I mean have you noticed the Eritrean, Djibouti and Kenyan borders by 1908? Do you think this border is correct? If so then it would be against to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Africa_1909,_Edward_Hertslet_(Horn_of_Africa,_detail).jpg this one] that is found in a respected library in the world and prepared by a respected scholar [[Edward Hertslet]] before he died in 1902. If you think the border of 1908 in your map is correct please confirm and the topic of this section would be about that and for the sake of the quality of this article then we will try to confirm the borders by bringing sources from various sources. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 14:14, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

EthiopianHabesha, the map you added has nothing to do with Oromo people as they were not in the region in 1420. Sarah's map is relevant to the topic of this page. [[User:Duqsene|Duqsene]] ([[User talk:Duqsene|talk]]) 22:40, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

==Wording==
{{ping|EthiopianHabesha}} You [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Oromo_people&diff=prev&oldid=757058651 added back], "who comes from the Sidama country of Gammo" and "and a journal published by International African Institute even suggests it is an Oromo word (adopted by neighbours) for there is a word galla "wandering" in their language". I don't have a preference on whether to include or exclude this, but I find the wording difficult to parse and understand. Why is these contexts important to "Oromo people"? Your "even suggests" language feels like editorializing, something best avoided. If you clarify what is important about all this, we can collaboratively figure out a way to word it better. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 03:32, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
:[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], the section is titled 'nomenclature' therfore we have to include all definitions because choosing ones favorite and ignoring the other is considered [[WP:Advocacy]]. As for "who comes from the Sidama country of Gammo" for Bahrey let me ask you, you also added "the Christian monk" and why did you add that? Why I added that personal information is also for the same reasoning, I mean since there should be a personal background about the writer then we should not just mention his religion but also where he comes from too. I don't know why adding the personal background of Bahrey and another source stating "it is an Oromo word used by themselves" becomes a problem to you when you have no problem adding inappropriate stereotypes (not seen in any other African tribes articles who leave with White & Indian minorities eventhough it is a fact they have been stereotyped in the past that way) even by writing it in a map? Let me ask you, what is realy the importance of adding a map with the old name since no one is using it today? What do you want people to get out of this? Inform? Stop it's use? Resentment? I am asking these since we need to discuss as to the importance of contents added according wikipedia rule [[WP:ONUS]]. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 15:40, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

::@EthiopianHabesha: The nomenclature section should indeed include various definitions. My concern is your sentence structure, not what you are trying to add. Thanks for explaining. The maps illustrate the use of term "galla" by cartographers in early 20th century, and how different their representations were. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 15:58, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

==Society and culture section==
{{ping|Duqsene}}, others: Would you have time to expand the "Society and culture" section? It is weak, and there are so many interesting and beautiful historic parts to Oromo people culture and society that we can and should be summarizing from sources. For example, ''[https://books.google.com/books?id=xmp2lsKlqx0C&pg=PA93 Ayyaana]'' and the related religious-philosophical tradition of the Oromo people, etc. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 03:32, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

== The 1887 map ==

{{ping|EthiopianHabesha}}, {{ping|Duqsene}} The 1887 map not only shows GALLA in caps in the lower right area, it shows galla river and other details that are relevant to that section. I favor the map that was restored by @Duqsene for that reason. If there are other maps out there that are more Oromo-relevant and better meet MOS:IMAGES guidelines, by all means, let us pick the best two (for NPOV). [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 13:09, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

:The colonial era Italian map does not point out the location of the oromo. Oromo people are found in most of the Scioa/Harar region not just the the state highlighted as Galla-Sidamo. Its an administrative map that belongs on the Italian East Africa article. [[User:Duqsene|Duqsene]] ([[User talk:Duqsene|talk]]) 18:25, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

== Explain History section changes ==

Other than copyediting and adding reliable scholarly sources, I have removed sections on individuals that are covered in [[History of Ethiopia]] and royalty-related articles, leaving just a summary style paragraphs on these. That suffices here. Our focus in this article ought to be Oromo people and the history of this ethnic group. Further, for NPOV, the content should reflect "fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, the significant views that have been published by reliable sources" on this. The Aleksandr Bulatovich sourced para is weak, and needs a bit more WP:RS summary. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 03:55, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

:[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], please see the article [[Italians]] and most of the article is about people with Italian ancestry and similarly this article also should describe the well known Oromo Individuals who mobilized and led not only a few 1,000s of Oromos from their tribe but also millions of Oromo people and also other millions from the rest of Ethiopia. Note that the Yejju tribe Oromos who ruled the Amhara people is also part of the Oromo people history and brief description of these rulling classes is something the Oromo people find it interesting to know so why censor that and just let the people know that "none of your peoples ruled Amharas"? If you know any scientist Oromos who influenced the lives of Africans or even the people of the world then please include their brief biography in the article as well. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 17:09, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

::@EthiopianHabesha: I don't understand some parts of your comment such as the one on censor. The [[Italians]] article is similar to the article on [[People of Ethiopia|Ethiopians]]. Slavery has been discussed in [[Romans]] article by the editors who created it, and numerous wikipedia articles, but most importantly as @Doug Weller [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Oromo_people&diff=750532594&oldid=750520489 explained] to you already a few months ago, "please don't discuss other articles" on this talk page. Slavery was not limited to 1,000s of Oromos. Nearly a third to two-thirds of Oromo people were slaves in regions of Ethiopia (see cited sources in this article). Further, when a family is broken because a child has been stolen or member has been kidnapped/sentenced to be sold as a slave, it affects not just that kidnapped person, it affects the relatives and people for their lifetime because they lost a loved one to violence and injustice. A systemic persecution of any people is a part of the history and oral traditions of that ethnic group.
:::{{talkquote|'''Slavery''' was fundamental to the social, political and economic order of the northern savanna, '''Ethiopia''' and the East African coast for several centuries before 1600.<br>– Paul E Lovejoy, Professor, York University, Canada Research Chair in African Diaspora History<ref name="Lovejoy2011p24">{{cite book|author=Paul E. Lovejoy|title=Transformations in Slavery: A History of Slavery in Africa |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=dXVFnHqhLvcC&pg=PA24 |year=2011|publisher=Cambridge University Press|isbn=978-1-139-50277-1|page=24}}</ref>}}
{{reflist-talk}}
::Bio of individuals do not belong in this article. The society and culture section needs an expansion. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 17:37, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
:[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], I did not complain about slavery section. What I meant was if you know any people with Oromo ancestry who have contributed to Africa or the world then we should briefly discuss about each of them similar to [[Italians]] article (the lead of the article says Italian ethnicgroup) which also discussed about Italian diaspora. I am just mentioning other related articles as an example so that we learn from other Wikipedia editors, that is all I said. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 19:40, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

== Yejju Oromos section ==

{{ping|EthiopianHabesha}} you added back,
:From the last quarter of the eighteenth century up to '''mid nineteenth century''' the '''Yejju''' Oromos dominated the politics of north Ethiopia.<ref name=A11>Henry Salt [https://books.google.com.et/books?id=vXZNSUQkoqYC&pg=PA382&dq=%22second+division+of+Abyssinia%22+Amhara+%22has+been+for+a+long+time+almost+entirely+in+the+possession+of+the+Galla%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjjjO3Wi5nOAhXEsxQKHcJtB7kQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=%22second%20division%20of%20Abyssinia%22%20Amhara%20%22has%20been%20for%20a%20long%20time%20almost%20entirely%20in%20the%20possession%20of%20the%20Galla%22&f=false A Voyage to Abyssinia]. Published in 1816 pp. 378-382 Google Books</ref>
{{reflist-talk}}
The source is dated 1816, and your summary claims "up to mid nineteenth century" which implies about 1850. The source does not use the word "Yejju". That is all OR, not in this source. The source is also very old, more recent scholarly secondary or tertiary source would be better. There seem to be additional misreading or misunderstanding of the sources you added after the Henry Salt source. Please explain, add RS, or check and revise appropriately. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 19:04, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
: [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], that content was sourced from this one: "Molla Tikuye, The Rise and Fall of the Yajju Dynasty 1784-1980, p. 201." as well as Henry Salt's book and also from the other sources used in that section. Please see [https://www.google.com.et/search?q=%22A+Yejju+Oromo+chieftain+by+the+name+of+Ali+Gwangul,+popularly+known+as+Ali+The+Great,+defeated+Atse+Tekle-Giorgis+I,+Emperor+of+Ethiopia+in+1784+and+became+the+ruler+of+Ethiopia+without+crowning+himself.%22&source=lnms&tbm=bks&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwismISkgMXRAhUkJMAKHeZSBuEQ_AUIDCgF&biw=1600&bih=770 this]. If you need more sources related to this history please let me know. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 20:50, 15 January 2017 (UTC)


== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 November 2023 ==
::Your new source is about Ali Gwangul and related warlords, it doesn't support that sentence either. Ali Gwangul died in 1788. To claim, his 1784-1788 part in Ethiopian history supports your claim, "up to mid nineteenth century dominance in politics by Yejju Oromos" is OR. Just like the OR on Henry Salt 1816 source. Whatever we summarize here must be directly verifiable in RS. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 21:26, 15 January 2017 (UTC)


{{Edit extended-protected|Oromo people|answered=yes}}
I have previously made major contributions to this article. I have a keen interest in this topic and have noticed a few areas where I believe the article could benefit from updates and improvements. [[User:Abrasax123|Abrasax123]] ([[User talk:Abrasax123|talk]]) 02:41, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' this is not the right page to [[Wikipedia:Requests for permissions|request]] additional [[Wikipedia:User access levels|user rights]]. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone may add them for you.<!-- Template:EEp --> [[User:Tollens|Tollens]] ([[User talk:Tollens|talk]]) 03:00, 9 November 2023 (UTC)


== Deleting Content without Explanation ==


@[[User:Socialwave597|Socialwave597]] You have been continuously deleting and editing much content on this page without giving explanation. In some cases, you are even removing factual content such as the mention of [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Oromo_people&diff=next&oldid=1190806410 Oromo's being mentioned in the 1400's]. Why did you delete that for instance? Please explain the deletion of that and in the future, please continue to explain why you are removing or editing content in the editing place designated for explaining why you are editing content. As I notice a lot of debateable content that you edited and/or removed. [[User:LeenchaOromia|LeenchaOromia]] ([[User talk:LeenchaOromia|talk]]) 01:22, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
=Horn of Africa in 1420 Map=
[[File:Map of Ethiopia circa 1420.png|thumb|Map of Ethiopia circa 1420]]
Hello [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]], the map is not accurate and also not based on scholarly work, but please do show your evidence. -[[User:AlaskaLava|AlaskaLava]], 20 January 2017
:The map was self-created by a user (Ingoman) and references no sources whatsoever. Please, [[User:EthiopianHabesha]], do not readd it. [[User:Buckshot06|Buckshot06]] [[User_talk:Buckshot06|(talk)]] 22:07, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
::@[[User:AlaskaLava|AlaskaLava]], [[User:Buckshot06|Buckshot06]], did check the dates and boundary with mainly Richard Pankhurst Book and other books like the Futuh Al-Habash written by Arab chroniclers of Gragn Mohamed. It would have been helpful if specific issues in the map are pointed out. Anyways, since the importance of the map is to support Oromos existence in the Horn of Africa and in modern day Bale province then let me give some sources supporting that claim. Please see [https://books.google.com.et/books?id=zpYBD3bzW1wC&q=Genale+river#v=snippet&q=%22south%20or%20east%20of%20Bali%22&f=false][https://books.google.com.et/books?id=zpYBD3bzW1wC&q=Genale+river#v=snippet&q=Bali%20%22Southwards%20to%20the%20Ganale%22%20Sidama&f=false][https://books.google.com.et/books?id=cu-qCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA112&dq=%22between+the+twelfth+and+fifteenth+centuries,+the+Oromo+formed+the+Berentu+and+Borana+federations%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi6057WytPRAhVFIMAKHR95CSgQ6AEIGjAA#v=onepage&q=%22between%20the%20twelfth%20and%20fifteenth%20centuries%2C%20the%20Oromo%20formed%20the%20Berentu%20and%20Borana%20federations%22&f=false][https://www.google.com.et/search?site=&source=hp&q=%22Between+the+twelfth+and+%EF%AC%81fteenth+centuries+they+were+already+organised+into+the+Berentu+and+Borana+federations%22&oq=%22Between+the+twelfth+and+%EF%AC%81fteenth+centuries+they+were+already+organised+into+the+Berentu+and+Borana+federations%22&gs_l=hp.3...2206.5419.0.5717.3.3.0.0.0.0.200.200.2-1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.hp..2.0.0.Gj4T-xP58zA][https://www.google.com.et/search?q=However%2C+those+who+so+identify+themselves+view+their+homeland+as+being+the+southern+highlands+of+present-day+Ethiopia&oq=However%2C+those+who+so+identify+themselves+view+their+homeland+as+being+the+southern+highlands+of+present-day+Ethiopia&gs_l=serp.3...54235.54235.0.55411.1.1.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..1.0.0.vKOTBXV6kUw][https://books.google.com.et/books?id=Glti5O1XMJ0C&pg=PA43&dq=%22fifteenth+century,+the+Oromo%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiuh_LcydPRAhULIsAKHWOiBNEQ6AEIGjAA#v=onepage&q=%22fifteenth%20century%2C%20the%20Oromo%22&f=false]. If there are other issues in the map please let me know. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 15:06, 21 January 2017 (UTC)


:@[[User:LeenchaOromia|LeenchaOromia]] ? I didn't remove that? It's literally in the history section of the article. If you have any questions about my edits please feel free to ask me here. [[User:Socialwave597|Socialwave597]] ([[User talk:Socialwave597|talk]]) 04:05, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
{{od}}
::It seems you have forgotten, but the diff I just linked shows that you removed it. It looks like you did that because it was already mentioned in the history section like you said. But this is exactly why you need to explain why you removed content in the designated edit summary otherwise it is considered a violation of [[WP:UCR]]
@EthiopianHabesha: The map AlaskaLava and Buckshot06 removed asserts 1420 "Oromo Confederation" boundaries, as well as many other details that none of your sources verify. Pankhurst book that you mention does not support this map, it raises questions. On page 137, for example, second last para, Pankhurst states that ''Gallas'' (Oromo) were south or "east" of Bale, that too "probably" and c. 1460. The map shows them south and "southwest" of Bale with misleading certainty. What is it in these sources that leads you to believe that the map verifies? Please note that a historic map by someone, say created between 14th and 20th century, one we can verify in an externally published source can be included, but as Buckshot06 explains above, a self-created map by a wiki user is OR unless we can verify it. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 20:15, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
::The talk page is not the place to ask questions and explain why you made the edits you made. That is the purpose of the edit summary. I am just suggesting you make use of that in the future [[User:LeenchaOromia|LeenchaOromia]] ([[User talk:LeenchaOromia|talk]]) 22:02, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
:[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], "The map shows them south and "southwest" of Bale"? Richard said south or "east" of Bali [https://books.google.com.et/books?id=zpYBD3bzW1wC&q=Genale+river#v=snippet&q=%22south%20or%20east%20of%20Bali%22&f=false see] and the map also shows them mostly south of Bale with some on the southeast as well as some on the southwest. It will help in reaching consensus if you could please let me know where you think they were by 1420, so that we can draw another map online if you disagree with this one. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 23:18, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
::These sources do not provide enough information to draw a "map" for 1420, 1460 or later. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 00:02, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
:::Understood. [[User:Socialwave597|Socialwave597]] ([[User talk:Socialwave597|talk]]) 22:26, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
:::Using a self-made map in the absence of reliable sources for it would violate [[WP:RS]] and [[WP:SYNTH]]. [[User:Buckshot06|Buckshot06]] [[User_talk:Buckshot06|(talk)]] 09:33, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
::::[[User:Buckshot06|Buckshot06]], searched wikipedia policy for maps and couldn't find, however checked many articles and almost all maps inserted say "Own Work" while not listing references [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Syrian,_Iraqi,_and_Lebanese_insurgencies.png][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bantu_zones.png]. I beleive why they are kept is because it's within consensus. Let me try to understand the concern of Ms Sarah in case if we can discuss and keep this one or draw another map together online, or may be once I have her concerns take it to Request for comment for other editors to comment about it. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 10:57, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], checked the dates put on the map and they all seem to be accurate but if you propose another map, please let me know which source we take i.e. if you disagree with Richard Pankhurst. I think Richard's location is clear and said they were found south of [[Ganale Doria River]] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jubbarivermap.png]. If you could please let me know which source we should take then it's not going to be diffcult to draw a map, after all, all maps drawn before 18th century are not perfect and readers do understand that. — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 11:12, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::Well, those other maps should probably be taken down too. *It is not clearly based on any [[WP:Reliable Sources]]; and amateur map-makers taking information from multiple sources and trying to make a map out of it for WP would violate [[WP:SYNTH]]. Drop it, please. [[User:Buckshot06|Buckshot06]] [[User_talk:Buckshot06|(talk)]] 13:40, 22 January 2017 (UTC)


== JUMPp1harm, why are you changing the pictures around? ==
= Final Proposal =


@[[User:JUMPp1harm|JUMPp1harm]] is there a reason why you are switching the photos around? [[User:Abrasax123|Abrasax123]] ([[User talk:Abrasax123|talk]]) 23:33, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
There is no metion of how the region was before 20th centuary and it's not fair to censor history and let people assume the region was peaceful contrary to what reliable sources say. For this reason I am proposing to include both the following paragraphs:


:is there a reason why you are switching the photos around? [[User:JUMPp1harm|JUMPp1harm]] ([[User talk:JUMPp1harm|talk]]) 00:18, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
::I am not changing the photos around: I am leaving the status quo. I'm more confused as to why you are changing the positions of the photos. [[User:Abrasax123|Abrasax123]] ([[User talk:Abrasax123|talk]]) 00:25, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
:::I am not changing the photos around: I am leaving the status quo. I'm more confused as to why you are changing the positions of the photos [[User:JUMPp1harm|JUMPp1harm]] ([[User talk:JUMPp1harm|talk]]) 00:36, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
::::You are clearly not leaving it the status quo as you first changed the photos position yesterday at 19:56. [[User:Abrasax123|Abrasax123]] ([[User talk:Abrasax123|talk]]) 00:42, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Abrasax123|Abrasax123]] @[[User:JUMPp1harm|JUMPp1harm]] Can both of you guys stop? You got the [[Amhara people]] article locked and now you're trying to get this page locked too. Both of you need to let this go, otherwise a permeant block is imminent. [[User:Socialwave597|Socialwave597]] ([[User talk:Socialwave597|talk]]) 22:29, 26 February 2024 (UTC)


== "An Arsi Oromo attending an Irreechaa celebration" ==
:''Before 20th century, wars have been devastating in the region as well as in Oromo areas for many centuries. According to Donald, the reasons for warfare in the region is to acquire cattle, slaves, to gain territories or control over trade routes and to carry out ritual requirements or secure trophies to prove masculinity. Wars were fought between people who may be under the same linguistic group, religion, culture or between unrelated tribes, and according to Donald the centralization greatly reduced these continuous wars, thereafter, minimizing the loss of lives, raids, destruction and slavery that usually occur during battles of that era.[https://www.google.com.et/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=%22welcomed+as+a+way+to+put+an+end+to+their+own+troublesome+intertribal+fighting.%22+%22Galla-Amhara%22+%22+terribly+destructive+of+human+life%2C+economic+resources%2C+and+artistic+treasures.+%22][https://www.google.com.et/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=%22Galla%27s+most+esteemed+adversaries+in+war+have+in+fact+been+other+Gallinya-speaking+communities%22][https://www.google.com.et/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=%22indeed%2C+a+large+part+of+the+increased+slave+trade%22+%22nineteenth+century+%22+%22Galla+captives+being+sold+by+other+Galla%22]''


While the bead crown worn by the woman depicted in the photo by user Abrasax123 resembles other availible photos of Oromo bead headwear, the term used to describe it, "Qarma crown," can be found nowhere else on the English speaking internet. Her clothing does not resemble other pictures of Oromo attire availible on wikipedia and elsewhere.
:''Conquered people who are non Oromos and other Oromo tribes who resisted the Oromo occupation were subject to serfdom and cruel treatments. Several successive army leaders of various Oromo tribes known as "Lubas" carried out atrocities against civilians and combatants including torture, mass killings, depopulation and large scale slavery. People under the rule of the Oromos were adopted through Mogassa and were assimilated while their states were destroyed. Those who resisted, men or women, under the rule of the Oromos were subject to mutilation and slavery.[https://books.google.com.et/books?id=zpYBD3bzW1wC&pg=PA284#v=onepage&q&f=false][https://books.google.com.et/books?id=b0_uAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA229#v=onepage&q&f=false][https://books.google.com.et/books?id=xmp2lsKlqx0C&pg=PA123#v=onepage&q=genitals%20ritualized%20trophy&f=false][https://books.google.com.et/books?id=mGcwAQAAIAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=castration+breasts+cut+off+gugsa][https://www.google.com.et/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=%22Ras+Gugsa+did+not+rule+according+to+the+laws+of+Mahammad+although+he+was+a+Warra+Sik%22][https://books.google.com.et/books?id=Sd1RAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA40&dq=%22Boran+is+not+affected+by+any+feeling+of+sin+if+he+rips+the+belly+of+a+pregnant+Somali,+Gabbra+or+Rendille+woman,+castrates+the+embryo+and+dances+with+the+trophy%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiYvuWO8dXRAhWG7hoKHRcYAokQ6AEIGTAA#v=onepage&q=%22Boran%20is%20not%20affected%20by%20any%20feeling%20of%20sin%20if%20he%20rips%20the%20belly%20of%20a%20pregnant%20Somali%2C%20Gabbra%20or%20Rendille%20woman%2C%20castrates%20the%20embryo%20and%20dances%20with%20the%20trophy%22&f=false][https://www.google.com.et/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=%22male+prisoners+of+war+or+to+cut+off+their+genitalia+and+to+cut+off+the+breasts+of+the+females+captured%22][https://books.google.com.et/books?id=LIFGAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA813&lpg=PA813&dq=%22All+the+males+except+the+monarch+and+his+children+have+both+breasts+cut+off,+and+are+otherwise+mutilated%22&source=bl&ots=MruspsTbi9&sig=H8TL-SmPI4JnSRErVAxawTKOc2s&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwip-La6mcrRAhXEvRoKHeldDPEQ6AEIGjAA#v=onepage&q=%22All%20the%20males%20except%20the%20monarch%20and%20his%20children%20have%20both%20breasts%20cut%20off%2C%20and%20are%20otherwise%20mutilated%22&f=false][https://books.google.com.et/books?id=E1oFAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA368#v=onepage&q=Galla%20breasts&f=false][https://books.google.com.et/books?id=zpYBD3bzW1wC&pg=PA284#v=snippet&q=%22enslaved%20its%20men%22&f=false][https://books.google.com.et/books?id=zpYBD3bzW1wC&pg=PA284#v=snippet&q=%22forced%20into%20slavery%22&f=false]''


More importantly, I am almost certain that the light skinned woman in the picture is not Arsi/Oromo.
@[[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]], if there is consensus to give readers balanced and complete information per [[WP:NPOV]] and [[WP:NOTCENSORED]], then you may include this toned down history as well. Thanks — [[User:EthiopianHabesha|EthiopianHabesha]] ([[User talk:EthiopianHabesha|talk]]) 14:09, 22 January 2017 (UTC)


This image should probably get deleted, but I'll leave that to a more experienced editor as I'm not aware of the policy around that. [[Special:Contributions/142.112.183.63|142.112.183.63]] ([[User talk:142.112.183.63|talk]]) 05:12, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
:@EthiopianHabesha: I am having trouble parsing your sentences and understanding your English. Please reread Robert McClenon's comment on this talk page and in response to your past DRN filing related to this article. If you are trying to suggest that we should summarize the conflict between Muslim Oromo and Christian Oromos and others, and that there was retaliatory violence by Oromo people on other ethnic groups in 19th and 20th centuries, there is a better way to do so within our content guidelines. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 14:20, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 22:46, 20 November 2024

References

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Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 November 2023

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I have previously made major contributions to this article. I have a keen interest in this topic and have noticed a few areas where I believe the article could benefit from updates and improvements. Abrasax123 (talk) 02:41, 9 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone may add them for you. Tollens (talk) 03:00, 9 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Deleting Content without Explanation

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@Socialwave597 You have been continuously deleting and editing much content on this page without giving explanation. In some cases, you are even removing factual content such as the mention of Oromo's being mentioned in the 1400's. Why did you delete that for instance? Please explain the deletion of that and in the future, please continue to explain why you are removing or editing content in the editing place designated for explaining why you are editing content. As I notice a lot of debateable content that you edited and/or removed. LeenchaOromia (talk) 01:22, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@LeenchaOromia ? I didn't remove that? It's literally in the history section of the article. If you have any questions about my edits please feel free to ask me here. Socialwave597 (talk) 04:05, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It seems you have forgotten, but the diff I just linked shows that you removed it. It looks like you did that because it was already mentioned in the history section like you said. But this is exactly why you need to explain why you removed content in the designated edit summary otherwise it is considered a violation of WP:UCR
The talk page is not the place to ask questions and explain why you made the edits you made. That is the purpose of the edit summary. I am just suggesting you make use of that in the future LeenchaOromia (talk) 22:02, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Understood. Socialwave597 (talk) 22:26, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

JUMPp1harm, why are you changing the pictures around?

[edit]

@JUMPp1harm is there a reason why you are switching the photos around? Abrasax123 (talk) 23:33, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

is there a reason why you are switching the photos around? JUMPp1harm (talk) 00:18, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am not changing the photos around: I am leaving the status quo. I'm more confused as to why you are changing the positions of the photos. Abrasax123 (talk) 00:25, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am not changing the photos around: I am leaving the status quo. I'm more confused as to why you are changing the positions of the photos JUMPp1harm (talk) 00:36, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You are clearly not leaving it the status quo as you first changed the photos position yesterday at 19:56. Abrasax123 (talk) 00:42, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Abrasax123 @JUMPp1harm Can both of you guys stop? You got the Amhara people article locked and now you're trying to get this page locked too. Both of you need to let this go, otherwise a permeant block is imminent. Socialwave597 (talk) 22:29, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"An Arsi Oromo attending an Irreechaa celebration"

[edit]

While the bead crown worn by the woman depicted in the photo by user Abrasax123 resembles other availible photos of Oromo bead headwear, the term used to describe it, "Qarma crown," can be found nowhere else on the English speaking internet. Her clothing does not resemble other pictures of Oromo attire availible on wikipedia and elsewhere.

More importantly, I am almost certain that the light skinned woman in the picture is not Arsi/Oromo.

This image should probably get deleted, but I'll leave that to a more experienced editor as I'm not aware of the policy around that. 142.112.183.63 (talk) 05:12, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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