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==Good article, but resembles personal journalism==

Hmm...interesting and hugely important article; very well written. The nature and political importance of the US-UK 'Special Relationship', especially in the context of recent World events, is certainly worthy of substantial and accurate coverage in Wiki. However, I've thought a bit about this and have concluded that this particular treatment often resembles a piece of personal journalism rather than an encylopedia entry. No references are provided in support of subjective statements. I've removed some of the more egregious assertions, but a radical re-think is needed IMHO to separate fact from subjective/personal commentary.

[[User:AntsWiki|AntsWiki]] 02:10, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

:Well obviously I don't entirely agree with you since I wrote a fair percentage of this article (all compliments, however, gratefully accepted, ta). The stuff about publicity seemed more appropriate at the start of the war but really the British contingent in Iraq is so small relative to the American deployment that it does seem like something of a beard, which is one of the reasons so many people in Britain are against it. It sometimes feels like our troops are in harm's way in Iraq just so the president can go on television and talk about the coalition of the willing.

:That aside (oops, there I go again) if you would care to cite some more examples of my subjectivity I'd be delighted fix them. Or probably to argue about it a bit more and then fix them. But that's half the fun. Or indeed to suggest better ways of organising the page or whatever. I'm very keen for this article to be as good as it can be. I was quite miffed (though also rather busy) when it was cited for cleanup and I want to improve it.

:--[[User:Mr impossible|Mr impossible]] 12:29, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

::The article is a lot better than when I last looked. Thanks!

::The subject matter is difficult and contentious and so much more to add.

::I heard an interesting BBC Radio 4 programme recently which described Nuclear Weapons Development. It seems that the Brits conned/hoodwinked the USA into believing that the UK had developed a thermo-nuclear device. But what they did was explode the largest A-bomb ever. The USA thought it was an H-Bomb and told the Brits the secrets.

::--[[User:Dumbo1|Dumbo1]] 02:15, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Hallo! All I have time to do at the moment is to draw attention to the Wiki ethos of [[NPOV]] - an injunction of which I was unaware till only the other day. It makes perfect sense in a specific Wiki context and so I was glad to discover it because it lends weight to my earlier objections apropos skewed treatment. Certainly, your article is worthy of much more time on the part of people like me who would like to collaborate with you. For a start, unattributed statements in the article such as the now deleted: "That the United States does sometimes need Britain - albeit principally for the purposes of publicity..." is a purely subjective, possibly personal (even offensive) opinion. Similarly, "The relationship is '''supposedly''' based on cultural and historical ties..." Again: "Britain will continue to cleave to US policy even to the detriment of its own short term political interests in order to reinforce this central tenet of British foreign policy in the longer term". If you are quoting a newspaper or commentator, a citation should be produced, otherwise what you state is merely a POV, which might be OK if you happen to be a known expert, with credentials, but for all the reader knows (and remember, Wikipedia is supposed to provide FACTS) you could be a London taxi driver! Haha! Maybe a solution would be to insert quotations and authorities, from ALL points of view in order to provide balance, to leave the reader to make their own minds up, instead of steering them towards a particular conclusion? Am I making any sense?

I'll be back :)

[[User:AntsWiki|AntsWiki]] 00:13, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Might I add my own suggestion to improve the article? A few salient points on economic flow, bi-lateral treaties and various other geo-political-economic observations (shared materiel, shared operational jurisdictions etc.) might shed some objective light on the realpolitiks. Obviously I'm couching my suggestion in vague terms but I'll root around for the sort of facts I believe will provide hard data for the article. I think the article is a good one, by the way. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/92.25.177.225|92.25.177.225]] ([[User talk:92.25.177.225|talk]]) 22:00, 31 December 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==Special relationship vs. Anglo-American relations==

There is a need for this page, but there is also a need for a page on Anglo-American relations. Some of what is in this page should be moved over. The "Special Relationship" is a political and media phenomena which is referred to in Britain. There is also the real more economic, social, military and cultural links that I would have thought belonged in Anglo-American relations.

--[[User:Dumbo1|Dumbo1]] 22:46, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

:Agreed, and so I started the separate page [[Anglo-American relations]] a couple months ago. Some of the content in this article should be moved there. The "special relationship" is ''not'' synonymous with Anglo-American relations. The "special relationship" is that part of Anglo-American relations which is cordial and warm; the term "special relationship" emphasizes the ''positive'' aspects of relations between the two countries. &mdash;[[User:Lowellian|Lowellian]] ([[User talk:Lowellian|talk]]) 15:13, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)

::The term "Special relationship", in international affairs, pretty much always means the Anglo-American relationship. On the same vein, however, I'm unsure the US relationship w/ Israel can be put on nearly the same level; That relationship has always been far, far, far more distant, cold, and stand-offiish. --[[User:Penta|Penta]] 1 July 2005 05:04 (UTC)

:::Also agree with you that "special relationship" is almost invariably used to describe the Anglo-American relationship. I'm confused by your comment's relevance to the earlier comments and why it's under this heading. The comments above do not make the claim that the "special relationship" is used to describe the Israeli-US relationship. The point that I was trying to make, and that I think Dumbo1 was also trying to make, is that "special relationship" describes one aspect&mdash;the positive, friendly one&mdash;of Anglo-American relations, and that some of the information in this article is more appropriate for the Anglo-American relations article. &mdash;[[User:Lowellian|Lowellian]] ([[User talk:Lowellian|talk]]) July 2, 2005 23:16 (UTC)

:This is purely political. If anyone thinks America and Britain have the closest relationship in the world, they must be mad. England has a closer relationship even with Australia! and America with Canada. America and Britain fear each other, not love each other. [[User:Wallie|Wallie]] 12:53, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

::Well it is an article about diplomatic relations so it is going to be political. I think the point , as described above, is that this is a term used by diplomats from both countries. Whether it is the "closest relationship in the world" is fairly irrelevant as it is useful for both countries to describe their relationship thus. I don't know that they fear each other either, I think the relationship is probably better defined as complete incomprehension of the other's motives. On a slightly different note, please don't use England interchangeably with Britain as you'll irk a lot of Scots, Welsh and N. Irish that way! [[User:Leithp|Leithp]] 17:40, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

"Special relationship" is a term which has only been applied to Anglo-American relations since World War II, reflecting the extremely close military and intelligence ties between the two countries, so there is a distinction. In some ways, this relationship has been extended to the other former Dominions (Canada, New Zealand, Australia). [[User:RayAYang|RayAYang]] ([[User talk:RayAYang|talk]]) 17:38, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

==Non-neutral sentence?==

What's with this:

"Britain will continue to cleave to US policy even to the detriment of its own short term political interests in order to reinforce this central tenet of British foreign policy in the longer term."

Whoever wrote that may be correct, but that certainly seems like an opinion, rather than a fact. Is that a proper sentence for this article?

I'm quite new to this editing articles thing, so I figured I should ask.

--
[[User:Orporg|Orporg]]

:It is an opinion expressed as a fact, and not in line with Wikipedia's [[Wikipedia:NPOV|NPOV policy]]; however, it may be rewritten with a citation, as in "so-and-so makes such-and-such a claim". Feel free to make the change yourself; Wikipedia is a cooperative process! &mdash;[[User:Lowellian|Lowellian]] ([[User talk:Lowellian|talk]]) July 2, 2005 23:23 (UTC)

== UK or C'wealth? ==
(It can be very confusing to rename a section as old as the former section that i am turning into a subsection of this one. Or to leave it addressable ''only'' by so vague a title as "?". Hence both titles will work, via use of this conversion-to-subsection.<br />--[[User:Jerzy|Jerzy]]•[[User talk:Jerzy|t]] 05:54, 1 January 2013 (UTC)<br />

===?===
What is it exactly - the relationship between the US and UK, or the relationship between the US and British Commonwealth countries. US/Canada and US/Australia have been described as "special relationship"s.<span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/Matthew238|Matthew238]] ([[User talk:Matthew238|talk]]) 02:29, 2 November 2005</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP -->

Since the states is unpopular, no-one wants to admit being very close allies with them (At least not often), it's bad for public relations. So generally leaders will use terms that mean the same thing, but sound slightly better. The English-speaking nations seem to prefer the term 'Special Relationship". It's not really a Commonwealth thing, just that most of the English-Speaking nations close to the US happen to be Commonwealth, thus the illusion. [[Special:Contributions/70.70.97.117|70.70.97.117]] ([[User talk:70.70.97.117|talk]]) 18:11, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

== "Warm personal relations" ==

The bottom Bush / Blair bit says:

"Warm personal relations aparrently followed".

Well, they did, but this phrasing has a nudge and a wink to it. The Bill Clinton use of the word 'relations' is clearly brought to mind. There is a "conspiracy" theory that there is a full blown homosexual relationship between the two. Should this document allude quite so directly to this?

==Glaring omission==

It seems odd that there is no mention of the blair/clinton relationship. Not only are the two often said (rightly or not) to have enjoyed a genuine friendship, but they had obvious common ground in terms of their approach to both the substance and presentation of 'third-way' centre-left politics. Blair learnt many lessons from the 1994 campaign, and clinton was openly and actively supportive of labour in the run-up to Blair's 1997 victory.

==external links==
I am unsure why a link to a band that happens to share the name of this page is on it - should it really be there? I must confess to never having heard of the band, but that is hardly a case for it not being otherwise notable. It's out of place in what is essentially a politcal page.
If no objections, I'll remove that link.[[User:LeeG|LeeG]] 02:47, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Acch. Just noticed the bit in in the intro, have reverted page to previous edit to remove it.[[User:LeeG|LeeG]] 02:50, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
The first link is dead. I'm a new user, don't know what to do. Remove? [[User:John13mcdonald|John13mcdonald]] ([[User talk:John13mcdonald|talk]]) 17:32, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

==Political cartoon==

[http://www.private-eye.co.uk/pictures/captions/blair_bush.jpg This political 'cartoon'] is in the current issue of [[Private Eye]], and I think demonstrates a sceptical view of the "special relationship" that is common among the British public. Might it be fair use to use it in this article, or could we perhaps ask for permission from Private Eye? [[User:Robin Johnson|Robin Johnson]] [[User_talk:Robin Johnson|(talk)]] 13:06, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
:I think you'd have to work very hard on fair use rationale on that one. Also, being from Private Eye, is it supposed to be funny? It's not. [[User:Mark83|Mark83]] 13:30, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

==UK and France/Germany?!==

As a UK resident I've never before considered my country as having a special relationship with Germany and France. In fact very often the complete opposite. In fact throughout the 80's and 90's the UK's relationship with those nations was anything *but* special - we vetoed dozens of EU laws and bills, opposed stacks of Franco-German initiatives, and remain one of the most Euro-skeptic nations in the EU. The UK government's relationship with the US government far outweighs any pro-Franco-German considerations. I think that line should thus be scrapped.[[User:Iamlondon|Iamlondon]] 13:29, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

:I agree with the sentiments, but which line are you refering to?

:[[User:Xdamr|<span style="font-family: Times"><span style="font-size:18px">X</span><span style="font-size:14px">damr</span></span>]]<sup>[[User_Talk:Xdamr|talk]]</sup> 13:37, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

==Did the Special Relationship start before this?==
In discussion with colleagues recently, it was mentioned that the 'Special Relationship' could possibly be traced to before Churchill's comments to the [[Jay Treaty]] which led to the [[Quasi-War]] where the Royal Navy and the United States Navy are shown to have helped each other out somewhat, sharing ''a system of signals by which to recognize each other's warships at sea''. Also I have been told that the term ''Special Relationship'', referring to US-UK relations can found on the tour of [[USS_Constitution]] in Boston. I am no historian - but are these claims founded at all? Just interested, that's all...
--[[User:Chiefmoamba|Chiefmoamba]] 10:41, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

An interesting point, but seeing as the US and UK went to war with one another after the period you're discussion (1790s) and that the British in fact burned Washington, I'd say the "Special Relationship" started later. Once could argue that a stillborn SR was stirring during the Federalist period, however.

--

I think you may be thinking of the "Most Favored Nation" status that the US enjoyed with the British Empire following the American Revolution and the original falling-out with France. As for the War of 1812, the British did burn Washington but only after American forces burned York (it was retaliatory, not an original affront to the US). The somewhat close relationship between the two nations, it would seem, picked up where it left off in the decades following the war, fostered perhapse by Britain's lingering paternalistic view of itself relative the US. There may be some merit in considering a much older origin to the so-called "special relationship" in cultural, political and economic veins for the purposes of this article. --JTM

==Addition removed==
"The Uk is a key ally of the US because of its military and economic strengths,i t currently spends more per head on the military than any other country, the 2nd highest spending with the 28th highest number of soldiers. This further shows the UK's focus on quality not quantity, however a blair speech on the 12th jan 2007 revealed an increase in expenditure which will obviously bring the two countries closer and closer together.[http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=600][http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=687]"

===Explanation===
*"The Uk is a key ally of the US because of its military and economic strengths" - repitition
*"it currently spends more per head on the military than any other country, the 2nd highest spending with the 28th highest number of soldiers. " - My back of an envelope calculations say US per capita defence spending is 1.56 billion per million citizens. UK is 1.06 billion.
*"This further shows the UK's focus on quality not quantity, however a blair speech on the 12th jan 2007 revealed an increase in expenditure which will obviously bring the two countries closer and closer together" - Editorialising [[User:Mark83|Mark83]] 21:09, 12 January 2007 (UTC)


"In [[July 2006]], the [[economy of the United Kingdom]] was the fifth largest national economy in the world (measured by [[gross domestic product|GDP]]). The [[economy of the United States]] was the largest national economy in the world. The US was the biggest single investor in the UK, and vice-versa ([http://www.fco.gov.uk/servlet/Front%3Fpagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/ShowPage&c=Page&cid=1007029394365&a=KCountryProfile&aid=1020687801023| figures for 2004]). This economic strength, together with Britain's influence as one of the "big three" in the [[European Union]], has altered the relative US/UK balance somewhat. On the other hand, British commentators have implied that British support of American policy is rarely reciprocated when it is not directly in America's best interests, leaving Britain diplomatically isolated - for example during the [[Suez Crisis]] and at the July 2005 [[G8]] summit under the Presidency of the UK, where Prime Minister [[Tony Blair]] signally failed to persuade President [[George W. Bush]] to sign up to the [[Kyoto Protocol]] - the US citing "harm to the United States' economy" as their principal objection." I have taken this out because the second point is already dealt with more briefly later in the article, and the first point seems obscure and whatever it means is probably not in the right place (if it's about the extent of trade links as part of the special relationship then this probably needs a full subsection, while if it's about the balance of economic power between the two countries changing then that needs to be better explained and probably put later on too). [[User:Deipnosophista|Deipnosophista]] ([[User talk:Deipnosophista|talk]]) 08:58, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
== Special Relationship: a wounded beast? ==
The author of the page says: "This interweaving of the combined US and UK military forces (as well as shared intelligence detailed below) is an indication that the 'special relationship' is likely to continue for some time."

With a certain qualification, I disagree.

In the past, and beginning with the End of Empire following the Suez fiasco, Britain realized it could not 'go it alone' without the aid of the US. Since then, the UK has sought a partnership to influence US policy decisions. In effect, Britain became the London Bridge between Europe and the US. Kendall Myers was correct when he said, "London Bridge is falling down."

While I believe that the special relationship is likely to continue, perhaps it's best to add that it probably won't continue as it has in the past. For all of his successes, most notably peace in Northern Ireland, Blair's legacy will be mixed with a negative hue given the perception that he was a 'poodle' to the Bush administration. Future UK leaders will be loath to have the same shadow fall over them. I think what is more likely is that the UK will cast its own foreign policy much the way France pursued a more independent foreign policy in the wake of Suez (pulling out of NATO and pursuing nuclear weapons). I think historical, cultural ties will be of importance between the US and the UK, but to a lesser degree.

Suez and Iraq, then, will be bookends of the Special Relationship: Suez was the end of the beginning and Iraq is the beginning of the end.

I think it is up to American leaders to see the value in having a bridge to Europe, especially how that US and European policy (human rights, foreign policy, defense, etc.) are so very different. The Special Relationship may not be over but it is surely a wounded beast.

-- SAISer
:That's very interesting. However this space is for discussing changes to the article and as is this information is not admissable. You would need at least one respected author etc. to quote for such a bold statement. [[User:Mark83|Mark83]] 09:15, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

:: Mark, don't you think it's a little strange that the passage "Although the United States maintains a very close economic and military relationship with Canada (see NAFTA and NORAD), as well as with other countries such as Mexico, Japan, Israel and Australia, the level of cooperation in military planning, execution of military operations, nuclear weapon technology sharing and intelligence sharing between the U.S. and UK is unparalleled." comes from a published article with a title that implies that the "special relationship" is weakening in the 21st century? No offense to the wikipedia article writer, but that's cherry-picking quotations since the thesis of the cited article isn't addressed. Let me put it this way: you can't cite that there is a close relationship, but ignore the writer's point that the relationship is weakening and then later say in your own entry that the relationship is going to continue for some time. So you see, it isn't the user SAISer (or whoever started this discussion) who needs to produce evidence to back-up his assertion (resource #1 already agrees with his thesis it would seem), it is the person who is asserting that the close relationship is likely to continue. [[User:137.238.172.73|137.238.172.73]] 01:28, 6 May 2007 (UTC)<small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/137.238.172.73|137.238.172.73]] ([[User talk:137.238.172.73|talk]]) 01:28, 6 May 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
:::I don't follow your logic. The quotation is accurate - it doesn't matter what the article goes on to say, it says that the US/UK relationship in those areas is unparalled. That is a fact. I don't agree that that's "cherry picking" the article - the author would appear scitsoprenic if he argued the US/UK relations was unparalleled and then went on to say it wasn't! As for the thesis of the article - it goes on to talk about the defence relationship and says that US/UK capabilites are diverging (technology gaps etc) and that the UK would be better off abandoning its nuclear detterent and ploughing the huge sums saved back into conventional forces to make it a better ally of the US. However here's the central point of my argument - the article says US/UK relationship in those areas is unparalled and backs that assertion up very well in my opinion. As for the rest of the article not being represented - that is neither Wikipedia's duty nor is it appopriate - the rest of the article is an argument (a very sensible one in my opinion) but still just an argument. Further the sentence in question (that uses the citation) does not argue the relationship is likely to continue, hence there is no contradiction as you suggest. [[User:Mark83|Mark83]] 21:36, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
::::We must not be on the same page here. First of all, I never doubted the accuracy of the quotion, and yes -- it most certainly does matter what the article "goes on to say" (read: what the conclusion of the article is). No offense or anything, but its naive and shows glib to suggest otherwise. I don't think you're seeing the glaring inconsistency that I'm addressing in regards to so-called cherry picking. Towards the end of the History and Overview section, the article author writes that, "This interweaving of the combined US and UK military forces (as well as shared intelligence detailed below) is an indication that the 'special relationship' is likely to continue for some time." How can you not see a problem with this when citation #1's abstract states (and I directly quote) that, "The paper concludes that changing US strategic priorities and further reductions in Britain's military capabilities are likely to erode the perceived value of the Anglo-American defence partnership on both sides of the Atlantic. " I guess you didn't read the "history and overview section" since you didn't see the contradiction...? Do you understand now? It isn't a matter of personal logic, its a matter of simple, clean-cut reality.

::::If you write an essay in a literature class saying: "David Bevington says that, 'Shakespeare was the greatest English writer', and this means that writing for theater is the highest art" and your works cited page takes the Bevington quote from an article entitled "Shakespeare was an absolute wonder in an otherwise drab, vulgar Elizabethan theatre crowd", you are definately not properly conducting your research.

::::So again, I ask, why is it permissible for the statement that the special relationship is likely to continue for some time without any sort of citation despite the fact that citation source #1 completely (and academically) debunks that glib notion? [[User:137.238.172.73|137.238.172.73]] 07:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
:::::OK, I see what you mean. My argument has been that it is perfectly acceptable to say "the level of cooperation in military planning, execution of military operations, nuclear weapon technology sharing and intelligence sharing between the U.S. and UK is unparalleled.[1]" and use James Wither's article. My point being that even though he does conclude that the relationship is in danger in the future, he is clearly making the point that the relationship was, is and will be in the near term, unparalleled. I did not realise (read: I missed your point) you had a problem with the history and overview section. Of course something like that should be cited. Having contradictory cited articles can be good - provides a wider spectrum of opinions. However having an uncited statement which is contradicted by another citation in the article is unacceptable. Sorry about my mistake which has forced you to take up more of your time than necessary! [[User:Mark83|Mark83]] 10:17, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
::::::That's okay -- I'm sorry too, I acted like a dick about it (I was up all night studying) [[User:137.238.172.73|137.238.172.73]] 18:02, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
:::::::Nothing to be sorry for! Like I said, missed your point (which was pretty clear). [[User:Mark83|Mark83]] 21:43, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Just added an apposite quote to the Present Status section from the present British Foreign Secretary to the effect that the relationship with the US is Britain's 'most important bilateral relationship'. [[User:PolScribe|PolScribe]] 12:35, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

==Recent Visit By Queen==
Perhaps someone should add a section on the recent visit to the U.S. by the Queen.

==Gordon Brown==
Should someone perhaps mention Gordon Brown under current status.

==Public Opinion==
I think the recent additions under Public Opinion are poor: both are far too long, and the IRA one refers to events in the 1980s when US policy was different (2001 had something to do with this, no doubt). I propose to shorten them considerably.
[[User:Deipnosophista|Deipnosophista]] 12:37, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
I have now done so [[User:Deipnosophista|Deipnosophista]] 17:16, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

I am totally new to this, but whoever contributed the following paragraph is obviously (a) a US citizen (b) a Bush supporter and (c) a moron. Please disregard whatever he or she says in the future. Majority opinion in the UK is that the USA in general, and George Bush in particular, are international pariahs, if not fools. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/86.13.200.224|86.13.200.224]] ([[User talk:86.13.200.224|talk]]) 23:01, 29 April 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

I agree, I think this section of the article is to strongly biased towards the seemingly European viewpoint. To me it seems to be railing on the United States gov. and stating over and over again how the United States is oppressing the policies of the UK. It should be completely removed or an American viewpoint should be added with emphasis on the opinion part, so it doesn't seem like Americans are stepping all over smaller countries. I happen to know that not all people from the UK have such bad views about the US, and this should included somewhere in the article, maybe a more positive and unbiased article would better explain this sort of "special relationship" that the US hopes to maintain with the UK. Alevins5 --[[Special:Contributions/65.28.137.156|65.28.137.156]] ([[User talk:65.28.137.156|talk]]) 05:00, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

I think the weasel words classification here is a misunderstanding and have removed it: all the statements in this section are sourced, and do not qualify for that description. I also disagree with Alevins5's views above: one of the most important issues about the so-called Special Relationship is that perceptions and descriptions of it are so different: to put it very crudely, as I see it the term is used widely by UK politicians to lay claim to influence over the US government and by the UK media following them, and little by US politicians and media (many of whom do not see a special relationship at all), while events which seem to undermine the claim to a special relationship have a strong impact on elements of UK public opinion since they seem to show that politicians' claims to its specialness are dishonest. It is not therefore POV to explain this: in fact it is the conflict between the points of view which is the main subject of the article. I therefore suggest that the dispute tag should also be removed. [[User:Deipnosophista|Deipnosophista]] ([[User talk:Deipnosophista|talk]]) 14:32, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

:I just read this article today and was surprised at the slant in this section. Although [[User:Deipnosophista|Deipnosophista]] explains appropriately that it is not POV to explain that UK public opinion has shifted, the section itself is not yet NPOV. Sourcing and including public opinion polls, especially those at the bottom of the article, is wholly appropriate and important. However, listing individual incidents is both arbitrary and unnecessarily weights the article. Further, the beginning of the section and many of those incidents listed are full of [[Wikipedia: No Original Research|original research]]. While I agree that all of the facts are well-sourced, in many instances, the author of this section takes those facts and makes fairly strong conclusions about them that the sources themselves do not make. As Wikipedia NPOV guidelines state, this is original research as it is not letting [[Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view#Let_the_facts_speak_for_themselves|the facts speak for themselves]]. As it is, I removed a few of the most obvious "original research" statements that had been unsourced. I also tagged the section for original research until I have additional time to evaluate each source individually see if they truly due make such conclusions. Please do not remove this tag. I promise that I am not one to simply tag and leave the article. I will be back to finish what I started. --[[User:Jdcaust|Jdcaust]] ([[User talk:Jdcaust|talk]]) 19:37, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

::Per '''Jdcaust'''. —'''[[User:Mirlen|<font color="coral">Mirlen</font>]]'''<font color = "green"><sup>''[[User talk:Mirlen|Talk]]''</sup></font> 12:46, 28 July 2008 (UTC)


==Unparalleled?==
"However, according to British author James Wither, the level of cooperation in military planning, execution of military operations, nuclear weapon technology sharing and intelligence sharing between the U.S. and UK is unparalleled."

Unparalleled even by US-Israeli sharing? [[User:AThousandYoung|AThousandYoung]] 02:10, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
:Anglo-American sharing goes way beyond that of US-Israel in almost every way. [[Special:Contributions/81.110.28.183|81.110.28.183]] ([[User talk:81.110.28.183|talk]]) 20:08, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Agreed. It is a rhetorical statement from a singular source, a British author. Nevertheless, it is referenced as such and while it perhaps is inaccurate as a statement, it is indeed properly cited. Agruably the United States has much closer military relationships and intergration with numerous other allies, Israel, Australia, other NATO members such as Canada (NORAD / NATO / OAS), with a near intergrated miltary for example. Overall, the submission is now very good and the "creator" has seemed to tone down the subjectivity. What is most interesting to me is the debate. The term "special relationship" was properly defined (and gratefully clarified and added to the intro here) in Churhill's original context as a special relationship between Anglo nations. While the term has evolved in a fascinating way in the UK, it hasnt elsewhere. It seems generally important to the British national identity, while it is often taken out of context to refer to the bilateral relationship with the US, it is seldom referenced by non-British media.

Interesting submission though I think it should stay as is under the heading "Anglo American Relations - the Relationship between the UK and the US." Objectively, this is where it belongs as the term "special relationship" neither historically or presently describes a single bilateral relationship. As noted, itis primarly used by British nationals to define a particular world view which perhaps is no more (or less) unique than the bilateral relations between any two friendly countries. As it now stands, good work by the author. As for placement, it is now under the appropriate heading.

==Move back to [[Special relationship]]?==

"Special relationship" is a common term in the UK press, to the extent that it's not POV. The article seems to have been renamed unilaterally - unless there's a sensible discussion somewhere that I've missed, I think it should be moved back. [[User:Robin Johnson|Robin Johnson]] [[User_talk:Robin Johnson|(talk)]] 21:36, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree: the term (as the article itself says, it dates back to Churchill) is a venerable one and the only sensible title for the article. I suspect that the person who renamed the article is American: that really only reinforces the point! [[User:Deipnosophista|Deipnosophista]] ([[User talk:Deipnosophista|talk]]) 14:29, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. The whole point of the article is to discuss the nature of the 'special relationship' and unpack it as term: where it originated, whether or not it exists and what might be said to constitute it. Moving the content on makes absolutely no sense. I would fix it myself but I've no idea how. Could someone switch it back please? --[[User:Mr impossible|Mr impossible]] ([[User talk:Mr impossible|talk]]) 20:36, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Can we have some help from an administrator here, please? It looks as if the unilateral move to this title has no support, but it is not possible for a non-admin to move it back again. [[User:Deipnosophista|Deipnosophista]] ([[User talk:Deipnosophista|talk]]) 20:16, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

== Anglo-American relations vs. Special relationship ==

If it's about Anlgo-American relations merge it there, if it's about the history of the phrase move it back to "Special relationship". In it's current title it doesn't seem to mean anything. [[User:Kevlar67|Kevlar67]] ([[User talk:Kevlar67|talk]]) 02:59, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

===Canada's special realtionship===
Plenty of media and academics also refer to Canada-US relations as "special" so it's not unique to Britain. Plus I think France and Germany's relationship with each other has been described as "special".
Canada:
*[http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p73495_index.html Canada in North America: Farewell to the 'Special Relationship' ]
*[http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb009/is_200409/ai_n13336805 From special relationship to Third Option: Canada, the U.S., and the Nixon Shock.]
*[http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2007/08/17/allan-gotlieb-bring-back-the-special-relationship.aspx Allan Gotlieb: Bring back the special relationship] <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Kevlar67|Kevlar67]] ([[User talk:Kevlar67|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Kevlar67|contribs]]) 03:04, 5 January 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Here's another gem from the 1950s

Prime Minister [[Louis St. Laurent]], for example said that while "the '''special nature of our relationship to the United Kingdom and the United States''' complicates our responsibilities..."
H.H. Herstien, L.J. Hughes, R.C. Kirbyson. ''Challenge & Survival: The History of Canada'' (Scarborough, ON: Prentice-Hall, 1970). p 411
[[User:Kevlar67|Kevlar67]] ([[User talk:Kevlar67|talk]]) 06:13, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

== Special relationship ==

I went ahead and made a new page at [[Special relationship]] because this was taking too damn long. [[User:Kevlar67|Kevlar67]] ([[User talk:Kevlar67|talk]]) 23:32, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
:My suggestion is that the info on the origin of the phrase abd Churchill's speech be moved there.[[User:Kevlar67|Kevlar67]] ([[User talk:Kevlar67|talk]]) 23:35, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

== Bilateral/Multilateral ==

I'd like to suggest that the statement in the "History and overview" section of this article claiming that Winston Churchill was not referring to a bilateral "special relationship" in his 1946 "Iron Curtain" speech is incorrect, or at least misleading.

It would have been entirely natural for british imperialists of the day such as Churchill to refer to their home nation using phrases such as "the British Commonwealth and Empire", since in those days it was an empire and not just a small group of islands off the coast of mainland Europe as it is today. It is quite clear what Churchill actually meant by the phrase from the rest of the speech, such as in the sentence immediately following his first use of the term "special relationship" where he refers to "mutual understanding between our ''two'' vast but kindred systems of society". Later on he also refers to the possessions "of ''either'' country all over the world". He is indeed referring to a bilateral relationship between the British Empire and Commonwealth (as a single entity) and the US.

So while it is true that he does not explicitly refer to a US-UK relationship, I believe it is incorrect to claim that he was not referring to a bilateral relationship. He just wouldn't have singled out the "UK" in those days because his "country" consisted of more than just the UK.

[[User:Edfud|Edfud]] ([[User talk:Edfud|talk]]) 04:19, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

This remark is evidently correct. [[User:Deipnosophista|Deipnosophista]] ([[User talk:Deipnosophista|talk]]) 06:24, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

==Criminal law==
I removed the following paragraph:
<blockquote>In a number of cases value differences also appeared to have led to verdicts by U.S. courts that were regarded as miscarriages of justice in the United Kingdom. One example was of an [[Aberdeen|Aberdonian]] who after a "good night out" in a U.S. city became lost and knocked on a door to ask the way; the householder shot him dead through the door and was later acquitted of any crime.{{Fact|date=May 2008}} Another was of [[Chantal McCorkle]], a Briton imprisoned for over 24 years in 1998<ref>[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/berkshire/4462785.stm BBC NEWS | England | Berkshire | New hope for jailed British woman<!-- Bot generated title -->]</ref> following minor involvement in a trading fraud.</blockquote>
The problems with this paragraph were:<br/>
# "a number of" are weasel words, which are discouraged. The two cases here are anecdotal only and even if both are true would not warrant mention in a Wikipedia article covering the relationship between 2 nations.
# The statement about the Aberdonian is completely uncited and has been marked as such since May 2008.
# The article on Chantal McCorkle does not support the conclusions given. The article does not claim that the charges were minor. The article does not cite differences in the US/UK legal system or belief system. The article does say some rights activists were unhappy with the sentence because she repaid the monies. That does not rise to the level of being noteworthy in this article on international relations.
[[User:Johntex|'''Johntex''']]\<sup>[[User_talk:Johntex|talk]]</sup> 23:52, 7 November 2008 (UTC)


== Capitalization ==
I think the phrase "Special Relationship" when used in this specific sense is often
capitalized, but not always. The text of the article uses lower case, but its title
uses capitals. It should be consistent, and Wikipedia style is to prefer lower case,
so I suggest retitling the article. --[[Special:Contributions/70.48.229.77|70.48.229.77]] ([[User talk:70.48.229.77|talk]]) 07:01, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
:WP stype is to use capitals for proper nouns, which this is, being the name of a specific relationship. [[User:Mauls|Mauls]] ([[User talk:Mauls|talk]]) 22:58, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

== Hijacked ==
The bottom half of this article has definitely been hijacked by British snobs trying to make it appear than America has betrayed the special relationship. Maybe the Brits should look in the mirror to see who did the backstabbing. Betraying America and the commonwealth by lo<s>o</s>sing yourself in the EU.<span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/68.192.108.42|68.192.108.42]] ([[User talk:68.192.108.42|talk]]) 02:46 '''& :47''', 26 January 2009</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP -->

I dont think so. You are free to add (as is wikipedias way) any information that would balance the section, but it is mostly based on fact. If you look at the US recently they have been rebuking their traditional allies. Even Israel seems to be losing out: [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/7531122/America-and-Israel-the-end-of-a-special-relationship.html America-and-Israel-the-end-of-a-special-relationship] . As someone with military links, the statement hiliary Clintion said about the Falklands did allot of damage on this side of the Atlantic.

However your point on the EU is very well founded. But the vast majority of people in the UK do not want to be as involved as we are - or more involved in the EU and it is a travesty that the Labour government promised a referendum on the matter, but changed there mind any ways. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/86.135.141.103|86.135.141.103]] ([[User talk:86.135.141.103|talk]]) 23:28, 15 April 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


==There's Nothing Special About It==

The term "special relationship" is exclusively used by the British and never referred to as by Americans.

I am sure that Britain has other "special relationships" with other countries besides the U.S. and I reflect as an American that the U.S. has "special relationships" with other countries besides Britain. It could even be validly argued that America shares a "special relationship" with Israel as well as Canada. Born and raised in the USA, I feel no connection to Britain whatsoever. I never have. Besides politics and close cooperation in military issues, I do not see anything "special" about this relationship at all.

Hence, the title of this page is favored towards a British point-of-view and negligently biased against an American point-of-view. It needs to be properly balanced to the extent of renaming this page "Anglo-American relations." --[[User:Yoganate79|Yoganate79]] ([[User talk:Yoganate79|talk]]) 10:04, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
:Stick it up your arse. [[User:Malcolm XIV|Malcolm XIV]] ([[User talk:Malcolm XIV|talk]]) 22:48, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

:Here's a quotation from Obama today that refutes that contention, parts of which might be added to the article: "Well, first of all, the special relationship between the United States and Great Britain is one that is not just important to me; it's important to the American people. And it is sustained by a common language, a common culture. Our legal system is directly inherited from the English system. Our system of government reflects many of these same values. So -- and, by the way, that's also where my mother's side of my family came from. So I think this notion that somehow there is any lessening of that special relationship is misguided. You know, Great Britain is one of our closest, strongest allies. And there is a link, a bond there that will not break. And I think that's true not only on the economic front, but also on issues of common security." [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/03/AR2009030301936.html Obama Meets With British Prime Minister Brown], ''[[Washington Post]]'' (March 3, 2009). [[User:Lachrie|Lachrie]] ([[User talk:Lachrie|talk]]) 18:15, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

The issue still remains. The American press does not use the term "special relationship." The United States has other quote on quote "special relationships" with Israel and Canada.

Likewise, the President of the United States is not representative of the American people. Just last week he claimed that America invented the automobile in his State of the Union Address!

Politically, the United States and Great Britain have nothing in common. They have a Queen, we have a President. They have a Parliament, we have a Congress. They have a Constitutional monarchy, we have a Constitutional republic.

Culturally, we are world's apart. The United States is not a Eurocentric nation. It is too diverse to be considered as such. Is it really fair to say that immigrants living in the U.S. who came from Latin America and Asia uphold this "special relationship" which has no relevance to their lives?

You claim that we share a common language. Are you even aware that Almost 25% of the population of the United States speaks Spanish? And are you even aware that by the year 2050, Hispanics will be the majority race and whites will be the minority?

This entire Wiki page is biased towards the American point-of-view. The "special relationship" exists for the Brits and only for the Brits. --[[User:Yoganate79|Yoganate79]] ([[User talk:Yoganate79|talk]]) 04:02, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

:I'm not quoting myself. I'm quoting Obama, who was elected by the American people, so presumably his view of the special relationship is more representative than your own private Anglophobia. It's easy to find references to the special relationship in the US media. Anyway, almost ten percent of the UK population was born overseas, mainly from Asia. The UK depends on world trade and is scarcely more Eurocentric than the US. If anything, its outlook is traditionally even more global. England was a republic before America. The UK is a crowned republic now. Since 1688 the monarch has been elected by Parliament. The US constitution and American laws were adapted from the British. The US president's powers as an elected monarch were modelled on the king's. There are only 35 million Spanish speakers in the United States, closer to ten percent of the population. By contrast, almost everybody speaks English. So you're wrong on all counts, and as Wikipedia is not your personal soap box, I think you should drop it. [[User:Lachrie|Lachrie]] ([[User talk:Lachrie|talk]]) 05:08, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

You can go fuck yourself. --[[User:Yoganate79|Yoganate79]] ([[User talk:Yoganate79|talk]]) 05:49, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

:How very English! [[User:Lachrie|Lachrie]] ([[User talk:Lachrie|talk]]) 07:40, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
:: I agree with yoganate! It seems that some Brits somehow feel like they have to "own" some kind of connection with the US. In fact, weren't the US born ''in opposition'' to the British Empire? The constitution and the like are more of a French influence than anything else. In fact, for Americans, Europe was until not too long ago synonymous with Paris. France is a Republic, so are the US, France has a President, so does the US, France is presidentialist, so is the US, France has a constitution , so does the US (note that the UK doesn't have a written constitution).And the list goes on.

:::The US Constitution is written in English, the first language of the vast majority of Americans throughout history. The UK may not have a written constitution (very dangerous things anyway) but it has had a Bill of Rights since 1689 which inspired the creation of the American Bill of Rights 100 years later. For over 200 years what is now called the United States was part of the British Empire. So the political, cultural and historical link is very strong. Even if it wasn't, there is a very close and special relationship currently in existence. Hillary Clinton, February 2009: "It's often said that the United States and Great Britain have long enjoyed a special relationship. It is certainly special in my mind, and one that has proven very productive." Barack Obama, March 2009: "The relationship is not only special and strong but will only get stronger as time goes on." --[[User:Philip Stevens|Philip Stevens]] ([[User talk:Philip Stevens|talk]]) 08:42, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

::::Dear Philip Stevens. When you quote Clinton and Obama, don't forget they are politicians and so used to say whatever they want to say in order to please... Some could argue they say that because they need more british soldiers in Afghanistan quickly whereas the others countries involved over there already answered all "Whatever, dude!". Another thing that always amazes me is how often politicians from the both sides talk about this so-called special relationship... It's all like they sill need to convince us that it's for real. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/86.206.237.188|86.206.237.188]] ([[User talk:86.206.237.188|talk]]) 23:35, 14 August 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

::::Whether or not the relationship is "special", the term has been used habitually by British statesman for many years and so is worthy of coverage as such. In fact it was probably only really special for a few years in the Second World War and was then not termed as such. The article ought to say a little more about Suez and Bush/Major. [[User:LymeRegis|LymeRegis]] ([[User talk:LymeRegis|talk]]) 17:20, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

==Requested move==
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top -->
:''The following discussion is an archived discussion of a [[WP:RM|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. ''

The result of the move request was {{Done}}. — [[User:Aitias|<font face="Tahoma" size="3.9" color="#20406F">''A''<small>itias</small></font>]] <span style="color: #999;">//</span>&nbsp;[[User talk:Aitias|<font face="Tahoma" size="3.9" color="#20406F"><small>discussion</small></font>]] 00:19, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

----
[[Special Relationship (United States-United Kingdom)]] → [[Special Relationship]] — In English, the phrase 'Special Relationship' is by far most frequently used to mean the US-UK partnership. I suggest putting a dab link at the top of this page for [[Special relationship (disambiguation)]]. — [[User:Philip Stevens|Philip Stevens]] ([[User talk:Philip Stevens|talk]]) 22:11, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

===Survey===
:''Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with'' <code><nowiki>*'''Support'''</nowiki></code> ''or'' <code><nowiki>*'''Oppose'''</nowiki></code>'', then sign your comment with'' <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code>''. Since [[Wikipedia:Polling is not a substitute for discussion|polling is not a substitute for discussion]], please explain your reasons, taking into account [[Wikipedia:Naming conventions|Wikipedia's naming conventions]].''

*'''Oppose''' high ambiguity, and a commonly used term to describe some sort of high irregular relationship between two people. [[Special:Contributions/76.66.201.179|76.66.201.179]] ([[User talk:76.66.201.179|talk]]) 03:49, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

*'''Support''' ''In diplomacy'' the ambiguity is low and the current circumlocution is achingly pedantic for a cornerstone of international relations. All the other usages are either not notable or are merely imitative of the dominant one. [[User:Lachrie|Lachrie]] ([[User talk:Lachrie|talk]]) 07:22, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

*'''Support''', if you look at pages that link to [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Special relationship|Special relationship]], most if not all are about the British-American relationship. It is far from 'high ambiguity' how many times do people refer to the Special relationship in the media or elsewhere and mean Sino–Sudanese relations? [[User:Hera1187|Hera1187]] ([[User talk:Hera1187|talk]]) 07:34, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

*'''Support''', I have only ever heard the term 'Special Relationship' being used for this topic. --[[Special:Contributions/86.156.197.206|86.156.197.206]] ([[User talk:86.156.197.206|talk]]) 11:36, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

*'''Support''', far and away the most-used term between the competing Wikipedia articles as confirmed by Google searches (there is no [[Special relationship (interpersonal)]] or similar &ndash; and what would be the content of such an article? &ndash; so the first IP's objection is moot, although in my opionion it would fail anyway). This article is the [[WP:primary topic|primary topic]] and shoul dbe moved to [[Special Relationship]]. --[[User:Rogerb67|Rogerb67]] ([[User talk:Rogerb67|talk]]) 02:09, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

===Discussion===
:''Any additional comments:''
*Wouldn't it be better to make it '''''The''' special relationship''?<small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Clinkophonist|Clinkophonist]] ([[User talk:Clinkophonist|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Clinkophonist|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <small>00:55, 11 March 2009 (UTC)</small>
**I thought of that, but it would go against [[WP:THE]]. --[[User:Philip Stevens|Philip Stevens]] ([[User talk:Philip Stevens|talk]]) 07:28, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a [[WP:RM|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.</div><!-- Template:RM bottom -->

== Redirects ==

Some of the redirects to this page recently seem to have been messed up by somebody. For instance, [[Special relationship]], [[special relationship]] and [[Special Relationship (United States-United Kingdom)]] all now redirect to [[United Kingdom – United States relations]] instead of this page, which is obviously a mistake. Can this be fixed by somebody who knows how? Maybe the page should also be moved to [[Special relationship]] to comply with capitalisation norms. [[Special:Contributions/59.101.146.142|59.101.146.142]] ([[User talk:59.101.146.142|talk]]) 03:05, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

*Done. --[[User:Philip Stevens|Philip Stevens]] ([[User talk:Philip Stevens|talk]]) 08:13, 24 January 2010 (UTC)


==Weasal words and NPOV==
This page is heavily biased, both in devoting nearly its entire length to problems in the so-called "special relationship" and in covering all of those from a purely UK point of view. The article also tends to take an anti-US tone. Presidents "snap" at prime ministers, prime ministers "thunder" at presidents. The US "invades" Grenada, "bombs" Iraq, and wages "war" in Vietnam while the UK "enforces" in Iraq, "defends" Malaya from "Communist insurgents", "amasses" a "task force" in the Falklands, and "conducts operations" in Suez.

Numerous euphemisms are used for the UK's wars, while Americans are portrayed as belligerent even in diplomacy (America and Germany "gang up" and "ambush" the UK and France). America infuriates the UK by giving a visa ("to agitate") to the leader of Sinn Fein, who is "listed as a terrorist" (no problem with me there), while the UK infuriates the US by its "compassionate grounds" release of the "convicted bomber" of Pan Am 103. The 1994 IRA cease fire was presented only in the context that Bill Clinton "claimed" that it "vindicated" inviting Adams to the White House. This is so one-sided it borders on satire. I think the UK has some legitimate complaints at some of its treatment by the US, but this article comes off as humorous in its tendentious wording. [[User:Geogene|Geogene]] ([[User talk:Geogene|talk]]) 15:20, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

In spite of what I have posted immediately following, I agree whole-heartedly...[[User:Jros83|Jersey John]] ([[User talk:Jros83|talk]]) 09:19, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Much of this seems purely factual to me. E.g. the convicted bomber of Pan Am 103 was convicted for bombing, and was released on compassionate grounds (rather than, say, on appeal or other grounds). If the US didn't 'invade' Grenada, what did it do to it? If you drop bombs on a country, isn't that 'bombing' it? Wasn't the [[Vietnam War]] a 'war'? If however you think there are euphemisms used for corresponding actions by the UK, then by all means change them. (But, for example, I don't think you could accuse the UK of 'invading' the Falklands, as it was UK territory; and the 'task force' was the official term used universally at the time.) [[Special:Contributions/93.96.236.8|93.96.236.8]] ([[User talk:93.96.236.8|talk]]) 11:17, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

==Not a big deal, but...==
I like this article, insofar as I don't see anything glaringly "wrong" with it. However I must say that simply by wording alone, let alone certain subtext and things implied, it seems as if no American editor has touched this article at all (or no editing by an American editor survives...?). That seems a little odd to me about an article that is of equal import to both sides of the pond. [[User:Jros83|Jersey John]] ([[User talk:Jros83|talk]]) 09:17, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
:: It does appear that no American editors cared enough to touch this article, until now. [[User:Mythbuster2010|Mythbuster2010]] ([[User talk:Mythbuster2010|talk]]) 02:57, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Is it, though? Some people in a position to know believe the Special Relationship is in fact a figment of the UK's imagination that is hardly ever referred to in the US (except when trotted out by the US President of the day when the Prime Minister comes to visit). I've added a recentish quote from Michael Heseltine to this effect. [[Special:Contributions/93.96.236.8|93.96.236.8]] ([[User talk:93.96.236.8|talk]]) 11:10, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
:: What?! Please have the heart to let the British keep up the appearances. [[User:Mythbuster2010|Mythbuster2010]] ([[User talk:Mythbuster2010|talk]]) 02:57, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

== Barf... ==

This article serious tests my gag reflex, with the one-sided British fawning, blushing, obsequiousness, etc. It's hard to believe that this is the "special relationship" as opposed to the "special" relationship, with latter used in "John has a special relationship with Britannia, the neighborhood prostitute."

Barf... <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Mythbuster2010|Mythbuster2010]] ([[User talk:Mythbuster2010|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mythbuster2010|contribs]]) 03:34, 8 February 2011 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:Sorry Mytbuster2010, but you seem to be seriously pov-pushing. If you want to make extensive changes which you must know are going to be contentious it's probably a good idea to discuss them on the talk page first. [[Special:Contributions/61.68.168.121|61.68.168.121]] ([[User talk:61.68.168.121|talk]]) 15:46, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
:: Well, unilaterally undoing dozens of previous edits without discussing it would seem the wrong way of going about it. My disapproval of the article is not so much that it can be viewed as fawning but its extensive use of official PR releases which are usually not taken too seriously. Browsing through wiki articles on various other bilateral relations, you will find that these diplomatic press releases are not widely cited, or if cited at all. What I am saying is that this article, as it stood prior to my edits, lacked the usual third-party, objective sources that articles of this type are normally expected to have. To remedy this, I have added just these sources, while assiduously avoiding PR releases from the Foggy Bottom or 10 Downing. I think I am being quite reasonable here. [[User:Mythbuster2010|Mythbuster2010]] ([[User talk:Mythbuster2010|talk]]) 05:22, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

:::Sorry Mytbuster2010. The number of your incremental edits makes no difference. You weren't just pruning a few press releases, you were flooding the article with your own tendentious commentary, turning it into an argumentative essay, polemical rather than encyclopedic in tone. [[WP:SOAP]] [[Special:Contributions/61.68.168.121|61.68.168.121]] ([[User talk:61.68.168.121|talk]]) 08:37, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
::::I'm afraid your declaring that my edits are POV-pushing does not make them so. If you had cared to examine my edits, you would have found out that I barely touched the press releases. My edits were, in their overwhelming majority, composed of material from respected sources, which include but are not limited to the Guardian, the Telegraph, the Times, the BBC, various former diplomats, commentators from both sides of the Atlantic, esteemed political scientists, historians specializing in the trans-Atlantic relations, testimonies before the Chilcot Inquiry, and frank assessment of former Prime Ministers in their memoirs. In fact, I have assiduously avoided any POV-pushing by my fastidious citations, direct quotes, and paraphrasing. Frankly, I find your wholesale rejection of ALL my edits bizarre, not unlike someone cavalierly denying the fact that earth revolves around the sun, despite being faced with centuries-worth of scientific evidence. If I may offer a suggestion: list your objections and make cogent arguments for why my edits were objectionable as opposed to making what amounts to empty declarations on my perceived lack of objectivity. [[User:Mythbuster2010|Mythbuster2010]] ([[User talk:Mythbuster2010|talk]]) 13:32, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::You having a laugh? First you vandalized the page and now you're cherrypicking factoids to turn it into some ridiculous anti-Brit rant. If you can't be objective why bother? Take it to arbitration. [[Special:Contributions/122.105.208.45|122.105.208.45]] ([[User talk:122.105.208.45|talk]]) 15:13, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
::::::I strongly object to your insinuation that I am anti-British. I am NOT. My edits are in no way anti-anyone or anti-anything. The views expressed in my edits are those of scholars, diplomats, pundits, commentators, prime ministers, prominent government officials, and historians, all of whom expressed their opinions through credible venues or had those opinions recorded by credible sources, which again include but are not limited to the Guardian, the Telegraph, the Times, the BBC, the Time Magazine, CBS, etc. If you regard my edits are anti-British, then perhaps you should vent your outrage at those who uttered the opinions which I had so faithfully furnished in my edits.[[User:Mythbuster2010|Mythbuster2010]] ([[User talk:Mythbuster2010|talk]]) 16:18, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::Fine. Monkey around. But if you haven't been reverted before, I'll just revert you again tomorrow, until you stop wrecking wiki, or take it to arbitration. [[Special:Contributions/122.105.208.45|122.105.208.45]] ([[User talk:122.105.208.45|talk]]) 15:27, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::: First of all, you don't understand what vandalism is, and I quote Wikipedia policy here, "Vandalism is any addition, removal, or change of content in a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of Wikipedia. Examples of typical vandalism are adding irrelevant obscenities and crude humor to a page, illegitimately blanking pages, and inserting patent nonsense into a page." I have done precise none of the above. Please don't accuse me of "cherrypicking" Wikipedia policies, see them for yourself: www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Vandalism. Seeing that you don't even have a proper user account on wikipedia, I suggest that you sign up and read the user policies. As for the arbitration, since you are not a user, I hesitate to have your IP range blocked, since you could be at a public place, and the block might inconvenience those who share the same IP as you. But if you insist on being inconsiderate, I'd be obliged. As for the accusation of my cherry-picking, I have done no such thing. Quite the contrary, I have considerably expanded the pool of relevant sources and opinions, so much so that this article now includes the VIEWS OF THE AMERICANS. You've heard of the Americans, right? You know, they are the other party in the special relationship, which by definition must include at least two parties for it to qualify as a relationship. No? Again, I must appeal to you, in accordance with Wikipedia policies, to list your specific objections so that we may have a civilized discussion to settle on edits agreeable to both of us. Now, your obstinate refusal to do so leads me to believe that you are either a teenager who takes every official 10 Downing press release for the truth and the whole truth, or more likely, a British expat retiree in his/her 70s' living in Australia who still holds every Churchillian word to be the truth and the whole truth. So which is it?[[User:Mythbuster2010|Mythbuster2010]] ([[User talk:Mythbuster2010|talk]]) 16:00, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::::You claim: "I strongly object to your insinuation that I am anti-British. I am NOT. My edits are in no way anti-anyone or anti-anything. The views expressed in my edits are those of scholars..." You mean like this? [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Special_Relationship&diff=412658665&oldid=412303027] '''This is called vandalism.''' Your latest efforts reflect this bias and are the work of a POV warrior: poorly-written, poorly-sourced (your references are web links pointing to journalists and YouTube videos) nonsense which has no place here. [[User:Lachrie|Lachrie]] ([[User talk:Lachrie|talk]]) 17:00, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
::::::::They are not vandalism. For "unrequitted love", see [http://www.atlantic-community.org/app/webroot/files/articlepdf/Heaney%20Special%20Relationship.pdf] and [http://i.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/1476544/The-special-bond-has-soured-into-an-awkward-and-unrequited-love.html]. As for "poodle", I quote ""The perception that the British government was a subservient 'poodle' to the U.S. administration leading up to the period of the invasion of Iraq and its aftermath is widespread both among the British public and overseas," the report said. "This perception, whatever its relation to reality, is deeply damaging to the reputation and interests of the U.K.", which can found here [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/28/special-relationship-us-u_n_516217.html]. It may have been liberal to list these terms, but they are quite usually associated with the special relationship, are they not? Now, what links have I provided that you object? Was it the ones from the Guardian or the Times? Or the Washington Post? I know, all garbage tabloids. About that youtube video, it was QUESTION TIME on BBC, which I did not actually provide. It was the courtesy of another contributor. Again, if you object to my edits, you should at least LIST A FEW OF THE SPECIFIC POINTS you find objectionable. I have NOT seen you done that.[[User:Mythbuster2010|Mythbuster2010]] ([[User talk:Mythbuster2010|talk]]) 17:59, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::::::The problem begins with your determination to argue a POV. You are hostile to the concept discussed in the article, and you are trying to force the reader to agree with you by suppressing positive material and replacing it with negative material. It is an encyclopedia article, not an essay, and your editorializing is unacceptable. The views of both supporters and detractors must be fairly represented to preserve authorial neutrality. [[User:Lachrie|Lachrie]] ([[User talk:Lachrie|talk]]) 18:57, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
::::::::::So you have no specific examples with which to back up your accusation? Then am I to assume that your failure to list and discuss them is proof that the integrity of my edits is beyond reproach? Come on, give me something specific to work with here. It shouldn't be that difficult if there is cogent reasoning behind your accusation. By providing edits that shed light onto how the Americans regard this special relationship, I must have touched a raw nerve somewhere. You see, this article, prior to my edits, was regarded as incomplete in its representation, and in fact, the tag on top the article explicitly states, "the examples and perspective in this article may not represent a worldwide view of the subject." I agree with the assessment, and I did something to remedy the shortcoming, which was very simply that the old version was based mostly on British sources. As I have pointed out before, this article is about a relationship, which by definition is composed of a minimum of two parties, and the old version covered mostly the perspectives of one, those of the British, and was heavily reliant on diplomatic press releases that are, as usual, heavy on style and low on substance. Therefore, almost by definition, the version you prefer is an example of a Soapbox article, specifically of the propaganda/advocacy kind. So pardon me if I find it galling that you have accused me of getting on the soapbox and pushing my POV. Now, I have helpfully started a new discussion thread below so that you may feel free to belatedly discuss your specific objections to the CONTENT of my edit. Let's get to it, shall we? [[User:Mythbuster2010|Mythbuster2010]] ([[User talk:Mythbuster2010|talk]]) 22:14, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

The existing article has its problems, particularly towards the end where there's a loss of historical perspective as it lapses into trivial contemporaneity, which is why the notice has been left in place at the top. But your own poor efforts made it infinitely worse. What you were attempting to do was to create an avalanche of tendentious edits, bordering on a practical joke, and then to throw the burden of proof onto a single other editor (me) to refute all of it at length. There is little point splitting hairs over individual edits when the cumulative effect of your opinionated editorializing produced a shrill, argumentative essay which was so ridiculousy biased and slanted from first to last that it can reasonably be dismissed in toto. Rather than basing it on serious analysis from the international relations literature, you tried to pack it with selective quotations and journalistic commentary from hyperbolic opinion pieces to produce an impression of the subject which was entirely negative, and verging on satire, presenting as fact what is only uninformed opinion, and extreme opinion drawn from the political fringes at that. It's clear enough from your earlier vandalism and the derisive tone in edit summaries, on the talk page and in the article itself that you maintained since that you have an agenda, an axe to grind against the subject. Such a sorry display of naked prejudice is simply inappropriate for an encyclopedia. [[User:Lachrie|Lachrie]] ([[User talk:Lachrie|talk]]) 08:42, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Please discuss any major changes you want to make on the talk page first, to let other editors have an opportunity to scrutinise the specifics of potentially contentious alterations to the article text before they go in. That will help us to maintain balance and avoid another edit war. [[User:Lachrie|Lachrie]] ([[User talk:Lachrie|talk]]) 03:59, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

:I agree with Lachrie; Mythbuster's editing, if not done in bad faith, still comes across as disruptive and I strongly encourage them to discuss specific problems as opposed to creating a landslide of edits. We work by [[WP:CONSENSUS|consensus]], here. ''[[User:Swarm|<span style='color:black'><font face="Old English Text MT">Swarm</font></span>]]'' <sup>[[User talk:Swarm|<span style="color:blue;"><font face="old english text mt">X</font></span>]]</sup> 06:49, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

::Just so everyone is aware, Mythbuster is a sockpuppet of [[User:By78]] who was known for his prejudicial editing style and racism. I won't bore you with the intricacies but looking at his [[Special:Contributions/By78|contributions]] will evince you that he doesn't believe in [[WP:AGF]] and is just a big twat who wants to waste everyone's time.

:::Thank god. ''[[User:Swarm|<span style='color:black'><font face="Old English Text MT">Swarm</font></span>]]'' <sup>[[User talk:Swarm|<span style="color:blue;"><font face="old english text mt">X</font></span>]]</sup> 13:08, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

== Lachrie's Specific Objections to Mythbuster2010's edits of the Special Relationship... ==

* Objection 1
Edit in question:
Why Lachrie thinks it's wrong:
Sources to back up the objection:
*Objection 2
Edit in question:
Why Lachrie thinks it's wrong:
Sources to back up the objection:
*Objection 3
Edit in question:
Why Lachrie thinks it's wrong:
Sources to back up the objection:
*Objection 4
Edit in question:
Why Lachrie thinks it's wrong:
Sources to back up the objection:
*Objection 5
Edit in question:
Why Lachrie thinks it's wrong:
Sources to back up the objection:

... ... ... <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Mythbuster2010|Mythbuster2010]] ([[User talk:Mythbuster2010|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mythbuster2010|contribs]]) 22:20, 13 February 2011 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:Response above. [[User:Lachrie|Lachrie]] ([[User talk:Lachrie|talk]]) 08:45, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

== Youtube used as a reference ==

Presently citation 181 is a [[WP:RSEX#Are IRC, MySpace, and YouTube reliable sources?|youtube]] link, which per does not meet [[WP:RS]]. This should be removed, and the associated content should be flagged with a fact tag. --[[User:RightCowLeftCoast|RightCowLeftCoast]] ([[User talk:RightCowLeftCoast|talk]]) 04:50, 15 February 2011 (UTC)


==Picture==
:I'm inclined to agree. The whole paragraph could be removed entirely. Heseltine retired from frontline politics in 2001 so the notability of a extemporaneous remark made on a television chat show in 2009 is doubtful anyway. His hostility towards the special relationship was more notable in relation to the 1986 Westland affair; if there are no serious objections, perhaps something could be included on these lines:


President Biden and Prime Minister Johnson reaffirmed the 'Special Relationship' whilst President Biden was visiting for the 2021 G7 summit in Cornwall. The current photo of former President Trump & PM Johnson should be replaced with a more up to date photo of Biden and Johnson. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Mark63424|Mark63424]] ([[User talk:Mark63424#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mark63424|contribs]]) 20:34, 16 June 2021 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:"In 1986, in what became known as the [[Westland affair]], British [[Secretary of State for Defence|defence secretary]] [[Michael Heseltine]], a critic of the special relationship and a supporter of [[European integration]], resigned over his concern that a takeover of Britain's [[Westland Helicopters|last helicopter manufacturer]] by a [[Sikorsky Aircraft|US firm]] instead of a [[Agusta|European consortium]] would harm the British defence industry. (John Dumbrell, ''A Special Relationship: Anglo-American Relations in the Cold War and After'' (Basingstoke, Hants: Macmillan, 2001), pp. 97-99.)" [[User:Lachrie|Lachrie]] ([[User talk:Lachrie|talk]]) 04:15, 19 February 2011 (UTC)


A picture of the current leaders of the two countries in question is far more relevant for the lead than a 70-year old picture from a larger group photo (rather than a bilateral gathering) and ''where [[Stalin]] has been conveniently cut out'' (bordering on historical revisionism reminiscent of [[censorship of images in the Soviet Union]]), especially as the "special relationship" is nowadays mainly something that is peddled by the British far right, and those who (controversially) advocate close ties between the UK and the Trump administration. When the term/idea has received coverage in third party sources recently, it has mainly been in the context of the UK's relations with Trump.


Numerous scholars over the last decades have considered or discussed whether the "special relationship" is a myth, and discussed how it was used by British nationalists to exaggerate the UK's standing in world affairs. Few people outside the UK (even in the US) recognise such a concept. --[[User:Tataral|Tataral]] ([[User talk:Tataral|talk]]) 23:34, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
== Disgraceful ==
:The article already mentions that some people think the Special Relationship doesn't exist. But it also mentions a number of reasons to conclude otherwise. Each country is the other's largest overseas investor. The US doesn't supply a nuclear delivery system (Trident) to any other country but the UK and does not share nuclear-weapons technology with any other country either. The UK is the main overseas partner of the US in Five Eyes and ECHELON, an intelligence-sharing arrangement that dates back to Bletchley Park in wartime. The CIA and FBI co-operate more closely with British police and counter-intelligence in terrorism matters than they do with the agencies of any other country. The UK hosts the only US strategic bomber base in Europe and the Obama government had to cancel contingency planning for a possible attack on Iran simply because the UK said it would be illegal and that US aircraft could therefore not use Fairford, Akrotiri or Diego Garcia, without which the operation couldn't go ahead. The defensive systems of the F-22 fighter are British. The USAF allowed RAF exchange pilots to fly the F-117 when it was still classified; they allowed RAF pilots to fly the F-22 when not even US Navy exchange pilots were cleared to do this. The UK is the principal overseas partner in the F-35 programme. USMC F-35B pilots have just been learning the British-developed Shipboard Rolling Vertical Landing on HMS Queen Elizabeth, which has proved a popular visitor to US ports and will carry USMC as well as British aircraft on her first operational cruise. The US and British military generally practise interoperability to a high degree. US law is largely based on British 'common law'. London has a bigger American population than Des Moines, Iowa. British and American universities often have close ties. The UK is the biggest overseas English-language market for US films, TV shows and books. One could go on. [[User:Khamba Tendal|Khamba Tendal]] ([[User talk:Khamba Tendal|talk]]) 16:39, 14 November 2019 (UTC)


'''Taking Back Control'''
Myth may have been a sockpuppet of a user with a checkered editing past, but he was RIGHT about this page, and he argued his point with numerous citations and logical reasoning. But due to the irrational militancy of some of the UK users here at Wiki, he was trounced upon. For convenience, the reason given was his sockpuppeting and edits made on his other name, but it is blatantly clear that this conveniently only became an issue when he dared mess with a cause celebre' of the militants involved in this article. He was as fair as fair could be concerning this article, showing no bias towards the US nor the UK. That offended the powerful BritClique here at Wikipedia and he payed the price, despite the reason given. [[User:Jros83|Jersey John]] ([[User talk:Jros83|talk]]) 08:51, 1 June 2011 (UTC)


And might not one go on to say that: while the article highlights the fiction put out by the right-wing, do not many people consider that the UK/US Relationship is one-sided and far from "Special"? That the US might supply a nuclear delivery system, does it not charges the UK billions for them? If the CIA and FBI co-operate that closely with British police, then why do such agencies help US citizens get away with murder? If the US really wanted to use its' strategic bombers to bomb Moscow, what could the UK Govt do to stop them? Also, does not the point that the "British and American universities often have close ties" and the UK "is the biggest overseas English-language market for US films, TV shows and books" indicate that the UK needs to Take Back Control? <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/91.110.75.79|91.110.75.79]] ([[User talk:91.110.75.79#top|talk]]) 21:40, 22 December 2023 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
== Merkel's "very special relationship" ==


== Intro ==
In a speech to both houses of the Congress of the USA on November 3rd, 2009, Merkel mentioned a "very special relationship between Europe and America" ([http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/angela-merkel-s-speech-we-have-no-time-to-lose-a-659196.html look here]). It seems to me that there is more than one special relationship the article has to deal with.--[[User:Tfjt|Tfjt]] ([[User talk:Tfjt|talk]]) 19:40, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
I reverted the edits done to the introduction by an anonymous editor. -[[User:Inowen|&#91;&#91;User:Inowen&#124;Inowen&#93;&#93; (&#91;&#91;User talk:Inowen&#124;NLFTE&#93;&#93;)]] ([[User talk:Inowen|talk]]) 07:10, 24 May 2018 (UTC)


== Churchill Funeral Snub ==
== Inaccurate statement - no reference ==


I think we should discuss here before we any additional details about the Churchill funeral snub. We know that LBJ was sick and barred for attending by doctors and subsequently criticized. In addition, Senate Majority Leader [[Mike Mansfield]] slammed the criticism. For now, let's just say that Johnson was sick and sent Dean Rusk rather than Hubert Humphrey and got criticized for not sending Humphrey. [[User:SnoopyAndCharlieBrown202070|SnoopyAndCharlieBrown202070]] ([[User talk:SnoopyAndCharlieBrown202070|talk]]) 12:36, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
'The head of the CIA station in London attends each weekly meeting of the British Joint Intelligence Committee.[29]'


== Churchill and Roosevelt ==
The link is broken - looks like it never referred to anything. Also can't find any sources to support this sentence. I think it has been made up. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/86.29.177.58|86.29.177.58]] ([[User talk:86.29.177.58|talk]]) 00:31, 26 June 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


January 30 is a date that's shared between both FDR and Churchill. January 30 was the day in 1882 that FDR was born in Hyde Park, NY and on that day in 1965, the state funeral for Churchill took place. Can we add this as the lasting legacy to the friendship between the two. [[User:SnoopyAndCharlieBrown202070|SnoopyAndCharlieBrown202070]] ([[User talk:SnoopyAndCharlieBrown202070|talk]]) 22:36, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
== Missing Key Component of Special Relationship ==
:It is trivia that would add nothing substantive to the article. [[User:Drdpw|Drdpw]] ([[User talk:Drdpw|talk]]) 01:47, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
There is missing from this article, a key largest component of the US Uk special relationship
from 1984 to present or past 30+ years. CINCG sr [[Special:Contributions/24.44.215.132|24.44.215.132]] ([[User talk:24.44.215.132|talk]]) 06:34, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
::Let's not add any details about it. [[User:SnoopyAndCharlieBrown202070|SnoopyAndCharlieBrown202070]] ([[User talk:SnoopyAndCharlieBrown202070|talk]]) 13:32, 4 November 2022 (UTC)


== Feel there should be an edit at the start ==
== Read the article. A polemic against cats. ==


This topic raises concerns about the predation of cats against birds. Yes it is a concern. But his overall tone is against cats. He seems to despise them, not explicitly but implicitly. The undertone is a call to hate cats and exterminate them.
In the list of wars fought together, "Falklands War" is included but America's support of that war is relatively ambiguous. <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/86.139.135.232|86.139.135.232]] ([[User talk:86.139.135.232|talk]]) 10:36, 22 March 2016 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


"cats do more harm to the environment than good."
== This article should be deleted ==


"Cats are invasive species"
There has never been a "special relationship" between the United States and the United Kingdom. The Suez Crisis proved that more than six decades ago. ([[Special:Contributions/2A00:23C4:638F:5000:5CA1:44CA:ABF8:6E8D|2A00:23C4:638F:5000:5CA1:44CA:ABF8:6E8D]] ([[User talk:2A00:23C4:638F:5000:5CA1:44CA:ABF8:6E8D|talk]]) 17:41, 27 February 2017 (UTC))


"Cats are disease carriers" [[User:Molby86|Molby86]] ([[User talk:Molby86|talk]]) 05:08, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
:That statement is total nonsense. Just check what most Presidents of the United States and Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom have said on numerous occasions, up to the present day. Thank you, [[User:David J Johnson|David J Johnson]] ([[User talk:David J Johnson|talk]]) 17:46, 27 February 2017 (UTC)


So, had Trumps car run over Number Ten's cat, what might that have done to the "New Special Relationship"? <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/91.110.75.79|91.110.75.79]] ([[User talk:91.110.75.79#top|talk]]) 21:53, 22 December 2023 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
::It's no different than what has been said by US presidents to French and Israeli leaders. There is no "special relationship" with the UK, as Eisenhower proved in 1956. ([[Special:Contributions/2A00:23C4:638F:5000:5CA1:44CA:ABF8:6E8D|2A00:23C4:638F:5000:5CA1:44CA:ABF8:6E8D]] ([[User talk:2A00:23C4:638F:5000:5CA1:44CA:ABF8:6E8D|talk]]) 17:50, 27 February 2017 (UTC))


== American Public Opinion ==
:::Can I please suggest that you stop soapboxing with your own personal point of view and read the recent statements of the last two Presidents of the US. Thank you, [[User:David J Johnson|David J Johnson]] ([[User talk:David J Johnson|talk]]) 17:53, 27 February 2017 (UTC)


The article is weighted in favour of UK opinion on the subject. It needs more recent data on American public opinion. In my experience, Americans in general rarely think about the UK, far less about any "special relationship". If such a thing exists at all, it is probably with Ireland. [[Special:Contributions/109.154.51.224|109.154.51.224]] ([[User talk:109.154.51.224|talk]]) 20:52, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
::::Obama said France was the US's closest ally. Things that are said for public effect have no real meaning. ([[Special:Contributions/2A00:23C4:638F:5000:5CA1:44CA:ABF8:6E8D|2A00:23C4:638F:5000:5CA1:44CA:ABF8:6E8D]] ([[User talk:2A00:23C4:638F:5000:5CA1:44CA:ABF8:6E8D|talk]]) 18:35, 27 February 2017 (UTC))


== This article is less about special relationship and more about Uk Usa relations. ==
== Johnson quote ==


I dont understand why or what is the reason behind this when you already have another page for that? There have been many many special relationships in history other than just those two. Just a reflection of how Anglo-centered wikipedia is. [[Special:Contributions/115.240.194.54|115.240.194.54]] ([[User talk:115.240.194.54|talk]]) 05:48, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
Johnson's quote on Malaysia doesn't make sense, as the country had been independent since 1957. ([[Special:Contributions/2A00:23C4:638F:5000:5CA1:44CA:ABF8:6E8D|2A00:23C4:638F:5000:5CA1:44CA:ABF8:6E8D]] ([[User talk:2A00:23C4:638F:5000:5CA1:44CA:ABF8:6E8D|talk]]) 17:49, 27 February 2017 (UTC))

Latest revision as of 03:12, 4 April 2024

Picture

[edit]

President Biden and Prime Minister Johnson reaffirmed the 'Special Relationship' whilst President Biden was visiting for the 2021 G7 summit in Cornwall. The current photo of former President Trump & PM Johnson should be replaced with a more up to date photo of Biden and Johnson. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mark63424 (talk • contribs) 20:34, 16 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A picture of the current leaders of the two countries in question is far more relevant for the lead than a 70-year old picture from a larger group photo (rather than a bilateral gathering) and where Stalin has been conveniently cut out (bordering on historical revisionism reminiscent of censorship of images in the Soviet Union), especially as the "special relationship" is nowadays mainly something that is peddled by the British far right, and those who (controversially) advocate close ties between the UK and the Trump administration. When the term/idea has received coverage in third party sources recently, it has mainly been in the context of the UK's relations with Trump.

Numerous scholars over the last decades have considered or discussed whether the "special relationship" is a myth, and discussed how it was used by British nationalists to exaggerate the UK's standing in world affairs. Few people outside the UK (even in the US) recognise such a concept. --Tataral (talk) 23:34, 8 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The article already mentions that some people think the Special Relationship doesn't exist. But it also mentions a number of reasons to conclude otherwise. Each country is the other's largest overseas investor. The US doesn't supply a nuclear delivery system (Trident) to any other country but the UK and does not share nuclear-weapons technology with any other country either. The UK is the main overseas partner of the US in Five Eyes and ECHELON, an intelligence-sharing arrangement that dates back to Bletchley Park in wartime. The CIA and FBI co-operate more closely with British police and counter-intelligence in terrorism matters than they do with the agencies of any other country. The UK hosts the only US strategic bomber base in Europe and the Obama government had to cancel contingency planning for a possible attack on Iran simply because the UK said it would be illegal and that US aircraft could therefore not use Fairford, Akrotiri or Diego Garcia, without which the operation couldn't go ahead. The defensive systems of the F-22 fighter are British. The USAF allowed RAF exchange pilots to fly the F-117 when it was still classified; they allowed RAF pilots to fly the F-22 when not even US Navy exchange pilots were cleared to do this. The UK is the principal overseas partner in the F-35 programme. USMC F-35B pilots have just been learning the British-developed Shipboard Rolling Vertical Landing on HMS Queen Elizabeth, which has proved a popular visitor to US ports and will carry USMC as well as British aircraft on her first operational cruise. The US and British military generally practise interoperability to a high degree. US law is largely based on British 'common law'. London has a bigger American population than Des Moines, Iowa. British and American universities often have close ties. The UK is the biggest overseas English-language market for US films, TV shows and books. One could go on. Khamba Tendal (talk) 16:39, 14 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Taking Back Control

And might not one go on to say that: while the article highlights the fiction put out by the right-wing, do not many people consider that the UK/US Relationship is one-sided and far from "Special"? That the US might supply a nuclear delivery system, does it not charges the UK billions for them? If the CIA and FBI co-operate that closely with British police, then why do such agencies help US citizens get away with murder? If the US really wanted to use its' strategic bombers to bomb Moscow, what could the UK Govt do to stop them? Also, does not the point that the "British and American universities often have close ties" and the UK "is the biggest overseas English-language market for US films, TV shows and books" indicate that the UK needs to Take Back Control? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.110.75.79 (talk) 21:40, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Intro

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I reverted the edits done to the introduction by an anonymous editor. -[[User:Inowen|Inowen]] ([[User talk:Inowen|NLFTE]]) (talk) 07:10, 24 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Churchill Funeral Snub

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I think we should discuss here before we any additional details about the Churchill funeral snub. We know that LBJ was sick and barred for attending by doctors and subsequently criticized. In addition, Senate Majority Leader Mike Mansfield slammed the criticism. For now, let's just say that Johnson was sick and sent Dean Rusk rather than Hubert Humphrey and got criticized for not sending Humphrey. SnoopyAndCharlieBrown202070 (talk) 12:36, 25 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Churchill and Roosevelt

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January 30 is a date that's shared between both FDR and Churchill. January 30 was the day in 1882 that FDR was born in Hyde Park, NY and on that day in 1965, the state funeral for Churchill took place. Can we add this as the lasting legacy to the friendship between the two. SnoopyAndCharlieBrown202070 (talk) 22:36, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It is trivia that would add nothing substantive to the article. Drdpw (talk) 01:47, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Let's not add any details about it. SnoopyAndCharlieBrown202070 (talk) 13:32, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Read the article. A polemic against cats.

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This topic raises concerns about the predation of cats against birds. Yes it is a concern. But his overall tone is against cats. He seems to despise them, not explicitly but implicitly. The undertone is a call to hate cats and exterminate them.

"cats do more harm to the environment than good."

"Cats are invasive species"

"Cats are disease carriers" Molby86 (talk) 05:08, 26 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

So, had Trumps car run over Number Ten's cat, what might that have done to the "New Special Relationship"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.110.75.79 (talk) 21:53, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

American Public Opinion

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The article is weighted in favour of UK opinion on the subject. It needs more recent data on American public opinion. In my experience, Americans in general rarely think about the UK, far less about any "special relationship". If such a thing exists at all, it is probably with Ireland. 109.154.51.224 (talk) 20:52, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is less about special relationship and more about Uk Usa relations.

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I dont understand why or what is the reason behind this when you already have another page for that? There have been many many special relationships in history other than just those two. Just a reflection of how Anglo-centered wikipedia is. 115.240.194.54 (talk) 05:48, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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