Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fix-It Felix Jr

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Wreck-It Ralph. When you've filtered out the COI and socks, there's a reasonable consensus for a redirect here. Black Kite (talk) 12:31, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

Fix-It Felix Jr

Fix-It Felix Jr (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Lack of reliable 3rd party coverage - there's YouTube stuff and fan blogs, and that's it. Notable as an item within Wreck-It Ralph, but not on its own. As there has been some edit warring, some clear decision seems desirable here. -- Elmidae (talk · contribs) 10:07, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

Just added by the OP before taking a holiday: [1] - a bit of coverage. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 14:25, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

• Note. If kept, Fix-It Felix Jr. (ie. with a dot on the end) should be changed to point to it. — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 12:24, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
• Comment This has been moved to a user page; meanwhile the actual title in article space (with a period in front of Jr.; this has no period) has been redirected since 2013 with nothing further, and this item up for deletion was actually for an item in WP: space as Wikipedia:Fix-It Felix Jr. before the main creator moved it to the non-existent user's main page. Should this actually be up in WP:MFD instead? Nate • (chatter) 10:45, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
  • The user who created the article and opposed turning it in to a redirect moved it themselves when this AfD was created. Should the series of moves be reverted to allow the AfD to run, or should the article be speedy userfied/draftified and a redirect re-created? Iffy★Chat -- 11:00, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
    • Gawd. Someone who understands what actually happened there with the moves please take over - I just tried to revert one and only increased the mess, I fear. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 11:10, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
      • This is why WP:G6 exists, I'll see if I can fix the problem, and then add some tags so an admin can clean up the mess. Iffy★Chat -- 11:13, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
      • Tags added - when an admin deletes the pages, the User page can be moved and everything should be sorted. Iffy★Chat -- 11:18, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
        • All sorted. Thanks User:RHaworth. Iffy★Chat -- 12:12, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
          • Yup, cheers! --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 12:23, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
• Weak keep. Fiction inspiring reality is an interesting idea. — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 12:24, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
• Keep It's a spin-off video game from a film. If it meets GNG (and I think this does, just about), we've generally kept such things. Andy Dingley (talk) 14:05, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
  • Roll on the 3rd party coverage guys, then I'm all for Keep :) --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 14:09, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
• Keep Now that we have the nom figured out (thank you everyone!), I agree this meets GNG as a unique playable artifact of the actual film. Only thing I'd do is add the period on the end and move it there. Nate • (chatter) 23:43, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
• Redirect to Wreck-It Ralph (and move to the proper period on the end (or maybe don't, I didn't realize that article already existed - 00:18, 14 January 2018 (UTC)) I had initially been the one to just boldly revert to the redirect version, but when I saw this AfD and the keep votes on it, I decided to ruminate further on whether I think it needs a standalone article. After thinking... I still think it doesn't need to be its own standalone article. I don't think, from the sources I've looked at, that it's notable on its own, and even if it is, I'm not sure there's enough content that could be included in such an article to make a standalone article's existence make sense (as opposed to the same information being woven into the Wreck-It Ralph article, for instance). - Purplewowies (talk) 00:13, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Video games-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 03:27, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
• Redirect - I couldn't find any significant coverage from reliable sources outside of the already mentioned Venture Beat article. Probably best presented in its parent article anyways, in some sort of "Promotion" or "Impact/Legacy" type subsection. Sergecross73 msg me 03:57, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
• keep and improve it's like no one even looked for references. Kotaku has an article on it, as does Business Insider, as does Rock, Paper Shotgun. Weirdly, you can even play the game on ESPN.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:40, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
  • Comment: I wouldn't say the Rock Paper Shotgun source counts as "significant" coverage; it's basically a short blog post and mentions the Unity game (mistakenly identified in WP's article as "Flash") as a sort of one-sentence afterthought. And the ESPN link is dead from looking at that source (the "account has been disabled"); I do think the game is still properly playable on its Disney page, anyhow. (I've looked into the (other) sources and I'm still not sure there are enough to firmly establish notability.) There's also the question of whether the cabinets with a playable game in them (as opposed to the just-plays-a-video cabinet at E3 that the article includes an image of and decides to call a "prototype") and the online game are or should be presented as the same topic (are they both notable? is either?). (I also believe it's important to determine whether any article that could be pulled out of this would be a WP:PERMASTUB and whether it's worth it to have it be separate if that's the case.) - Purplewowies (talk) 21:45, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
  • Comment - Your "Business Insider" source isn't from them, but rather, a reprint of a write up from a website called Modojo, a website I've never heard of, and isn't listed/evaluated at WP:VG/S. That doesn't automatically mean its unreliable, but it's also not quite the "slam dunk" you're making it out to be either. The Rock Paper Shotgun source does not constitute "significant coverage" and would not count towards notability. The entire article is one short paragraph, and only the last 2 short sentences address the game itself - that's textbook "passing mention". The game itself being hosted and playable on ESPN, while bizarre, has no bearing on its reliability either. Sergecross73 msg me 18:39, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
    • Comment: Random note that I don't personally find the ESPN hosting that bizarre; Disney does own them after all. - Purplewowies (talk) 05:13, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
• Delete Fix-It Felix Jr. already redirects to Wreck-It Ralph so this malformed title should just be deleted. For the sake of consensus however, I will also say redirect is a viable option. It merits a section in Wreck-it Ralph but doesnt seem notable enough for a standalone article._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 15:28, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
• Keep definitely - I defend this article, because I have proof of it, and in the words of Jules Verne: "Everything that man imagines becomes a reality" and video games aren't the exception. Fix-It Felix Jr. must be in the Post-fictional category, Because it has been seen hundreds of times by many people who hadn't imagined that this game really existed. Deletion means giving inferiority to the game, this one deserves to have an article separate because of it's influence. The article to be maintained to give you more improvements and more truthful and notorious information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ofihombre (talk • contribs) 18:33, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
• I will show evidence to continue keeping the article - Well, I think I won't continue deleting negative comments and I will continue to strengthen the positive ones to continue keeping the article. One of the best ways to know better the presence of this game, is through video captures, as in this example: Fix it Felix Jr. Arcade Machine (FULL SIZE) Look! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ofihombre (talk • contribs) 19:18, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
  • Comment: Proof that something exists isn't proof that it's notable enough ("worthy of note", as judged by reliable sources) to have a whole article devoted to it. (And for that matter, a redirect or delete !vote isn't inherently negative; we are all trying to suggest what we think is best for the encyclopedia, after all.) - Purplewowies (talk) 19:22, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
    • It's not as if that hadn't been explained to them already, but apparently it didn't stick... --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 19:41, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
• Redirect: Not enough notability. --Tarage (talk) 19:20, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
  • Comment - So there must be. A video should be enough to know about this game. Let's see if it looks like 3?

    Example 1: Fix it Felix Jr Arcade Version

    Example 2: Fix It Felix arcade Review

    Example 3: fix it felix jr arcade attraction screen

    It's for you to know that I want the article to be maintained, since it deserves a special position, and look for more clues. Your concept of "Notability" is exclusively closed in the press of 3rd parties. When the wikipedia of the other languages is a bit more open than the strict English version.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ofihombre (talk • contribs) 19:32, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

    • We don't really care what other language Wikis do. Learn the rules or get out. --Tarage (talk) 19:33, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
      • Comment - Ok, ignore this last paragraph, but I repeat that your concept of "Notability" of Wikipedia, is exclusively closed to third-party press, undervalue the information of independent people who even know much better than those. You delete articles just for not having references of the press, and you do not leave it reserved so that they improve and look for those references.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ofihombre (talk • contribs) 19:43, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
        • Don't like our rules? you can leave at any time. --Tarage (talk) 20:08, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
          • Please remember WP:BITE and don't straight up tell people to leave. It's not as if any amount of argument can change a deletion discussion unless the argument is sound. If they keep being disruptive outside of a deletion discussion then they will be blocked._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 21:20, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
      • This is not the place to complain about the rules. This is where the rules are enforced. If you want to change the rules, go for it. But that place wouldn't be here, and until the rules are changed, your argument is currently invalid. What you're doing is the equivalent of getting pulled over for speeding by the police, and you arguing with him that you don't agree with the speed limit. He wouldn't care, because he doesn't set the speed limits, he just enforces them. Obviously, we're not all "the police" in this situation, but its the same idea of complaining too late and at the wrong venue. Sergecross73 msg me 20:30, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
• Editors! Stop adding and removing the bold Comment from people's comments. (See page history for what I'm talking about.) There is literally no reason for or against adding or removing. Stop wasting time, all of you. Sergecross73 msg me 00:17, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
  • I'd argue some of them did have readability/WP:ACCESS implications, which is a highly valid reason, but... yeah. (Actually, on that note, I might change the indent formatting to match the best practices in the list section of WP:ACCESS, if that's okay, since the change from bullets to indents might be disruptive for screen readers.) - Purplewowies (talk) 05:20, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
    • Well, that'd be news to me, as people add a comment mark at the beginning of their comments at AFD all the time, and I've never witnessed anyone be scolded for it before, and rarely seen anyone go about unilaterally removing it from others comments. Regardless, the article creator has now been blocked for blatant vandalism here and elsewhere, so at least the back and forth should be over with now... Sergecross73 msg me 13:54, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
      • Indeed, removal is odd, but it appears the situation may have gone like this: People using comment normally, Ofihombre adding it to comments that weren't his own, someone getting irritated he added it to theirs and removing it from theirs and others (including ones he didn't add to), me adding mine back (and then me adding one of yours back for readability of a block of text (that's the accessibility/readability implication, BTW)), and Ofihombre adding his back. A confusing and labyrinthine series of events that that had minor or even zero-sum effects on the discussion. (At the time of this comment, I've decided to go through and standardize the list progression used by this AFD in the spirit of WP:ACCESS since I happened to have time and no one seems to have objected.) - Purplewowies (talk) 21:52, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
• Redirect to Wreck-It Ralph Notable enough to be included in article about movie, but GNG not enough for seperate article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Angryredplanet (talk • contribs) 05:12, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
• Comment: I get it now. I get the reason why this editor is so brazenly supporting this non-notible article. Folks, we have a conflict of interest issue here. There is a Fix-It-Felix game created by one OfiHombre here: https://ofihombre.itch.io/fix-it-felix-jr . Now not only is this article not notible, it has a conflict of interest issue as well. Nuke it from space, salt, and move on. --Tarage (talk) 18:54, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
  • As noted at the talk page, I think that is an over-reaction. The cabinet version, which is what the article mainly deals with, was not made by one dude on an 8-bit engine. The editor has likely made one of the fan remakes, but those only get a passing mention in the article. This is a fan article, not a promo exercise. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 19:34, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
    • I imagine the truth may be somewhere in the middle of both of your stances. But regardless, it probably doesn't matter, as the article is looking highly unlikely to be kept at this rate anyways, considering there's only a few keep votes and most of them don't cite any sort of policy in their stance. Sergecross73 msg me 22:02, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
• Keep: Either redirect into Wreck-it Ralph and include a section on it there or keep this stand-alone article, but don't delete Lacypaperclip2.0 (talk) 20:43, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
• Redirect to Wreck-it Ralph No independent notability. Sources offered above are not significant. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 23:46, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
• Redirect to Wreck-it Ralph. The flash game was a promotional device for the Wreck-it Ralph movie and both it and the fictional game itself are not independently notable from the movie. Normally I would suggest merging some of the article content into the parent article, but in this case it mostly seems to be trivia. ZettaComposer (talk) 19:16, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
• Keep anyway - I don't agree with all of you, even being promotion of the movie, the game so far has had a story behind after the success of it, Homebrew versions of Sega Genesis and Atari 2600 have been made, hundreds of users have dedicated themselves to talking about the game. But as they haven't been notorious and little registered by the press and official sources, it is clearly the reason for their redirect, although I would also have preferred the article to be a Merge. Anyway I get to keep the article. 8:56, 20 January 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.57.114.170 (talk)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.