Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ryan Fournier: Difference between revisions

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Students for Trump. Spartaz ^Humbug! 06:43, 31 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ryan Fournier

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

WP:Promo Fails WP:GNG, WP:TOOSOON, and WP:POLITICIAN. Is a clearly WP:PROMO WP:AUTOBIO. It reeks of WP:PROMO, among many other things. The account that is edit warring has only edited 3 pages. Fournier, the school he went to, and his grandfather. Also, same account who has been on this article and only edited articles related to Fournier uploaded a copyright image to Wikipedia. Jamesharrison2014 (talk) 04:40, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is not a majority vote, but instead a discussion among Wikipedia contributors. Wikipedia has policies and guidelines regarding the encyclopedia's content, and consensus (agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes.

However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to assume good faith on the part of others and to sign your posts on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end.

Note: Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected single-purpose accounts: {{subst:spa|username}}; suspected canvassed users: {{subst:canvassed|username}}; accounts blocked for sockpuppetry: {{subst:csm|username}} or {{subst:csp|username}}.

The individual in question is classified as a public figure and a Fox News Contributor. Allow us to make proper edits to the page to avoid deletion. His page is managed by Keybridge Communications. TimmyScotts (talk) 12:00, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

So you are admitting that his PR Firm is editing this page? How could you possibly know this unless you are Fournier or the PR firm? PS he is not a fox news contributor. This is simply false. If you have any evidence to support this feel free to share. Jamesharrison2014 (talk) 05:06, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. MT Train^Discuss 05:14, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. MT Train^Discuss 05:14, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. MT Train^Discuss 05:14, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No, that is what I thought, I am unsure, apologies. To my knowledge, his page was initially created by an editor at .Mic. I worked closely to the campaign and followed some of his work, which is why I sort of help manage his page. I would like to help fix the issues on the page to avoid its deletion. TimmyScotts (talk) 12:15, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Again, you are mistaken. This page was created and edited by an account that has only edited Ryan Fournier which leads me to believe it is WP:PROMO. If you look at the edit history of the page it is a few users editing one single page or pages related to Fournier. Also, just out of curiousity how do you know who his PR firm is? It's not on their website and no account by that name has any relation to the page. Jamesharrison2014 (talk) 05:25, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I know the person at .Mic who first created the Wikipage. That's how I learned about Mr. Fournier. I assumed the page was managed by a PR firm because that's what I was told by the person at .Mic, but I could be wrong. I have been helping upkeep the page and so did the person at .Mic, which could explain as to why only a few people edit it. There are multiple articles out there that support the information in the wikipage as well. TimmyScotts (talk) 12:15, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Who at .Mic created the page? Maybe we can get some context from them? Jamesharrison2014 (talk) 05:36, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I don't want to post their name on here. Would you allow me to make the proper revisions to this page to avoid its deletion. The page has potential. TimmyScotts (talk) 12:15, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry but no one at .Mic created this page. You can make edits to the page to try and make it better but self promtion (WP:PROMO) and Copyrighted materials will be removed per wikipedia policy. Jamesharrison2014 (talk) 05:43, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

One of the Political Editors from .Mic created this page, I can't say much more or provide any proof because it would compromise their identity. I will make these edits in the coming days, but I wanted to revert to your changes and work from there. I hope we can also resolve this deletion thread. Thank you. TimmyScotts (talk) 12:15, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I will let you know that many will not believe you when the account who created the article is a single IP address who has only edited the Fournier page. Also, it doesn't matter who created the page if it does not meat WP:Notability. Jamesharrison2014 (talk) 05:49, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Mr. Fournier served as the National Chairman of Students for Trump, has appeared on Fox News numerous times (Which makes me believe he is a contributor of sorts). I believe that is classified as someone with WP:Notability and it follows the guidelines based off of what I have seen in articles, his social media, videos, etc. TimmyScotts (talk) 12:15, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - per nom. Not notable and seems very promotional. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.242.113.12 (talk) 05:58, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per TimmyScotts on deletion -- The figure in question is public figure. He has multiple articles written about him, quoted on or contributed to. Notability is not temporary and the page has much potential to grow. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TimmyScotts (talk • contribs) 06:05, 23 January 2018 (UTC) Admin Note - This is TimmyScotts see page history.[reply]

You are exactly right but no sources have been provided and copyrighted materials continue to be added. Also, you must sign your comments with 4 ~'s to identify yourself.Jamesharrison2014 (talk) 06:13, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Admin Note - TimmyScotts is attempting to vote more than once. If you look at the page history the above comment is by the same person but he is talking in the 3rd person to appear as if it his not him. Jamesharrison2014 (talk) 06:11, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I did not double vote, I opposed the comment added about deletion. Here are some sources on Mr. Fournier which assist in checking his Notability:

https://mic.com/articles/145019/meet-the-20-year-old-mastermind-behind-students-for-trump#.nnH9ydp9g

https://www.chronicle.com/article/Meet-the-Young-Republicans-Who/237333

http://redalertpolitics.com/2017-30-30-list/ryanfournier/

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/donald-trump-students-for-trump-227219

http://myfox8.com/2017/03/08/meet-the-nc-millennial-who-helped-trump-win-the-presidency/

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/election/article104522526.html

http://nation.foxnews.com/2017/03/18/students-trump-founder-we-ll-be-back-2020

https://twitter.com/RyanAFournier (For Reference)

It should also be mentioned that Mr. Fournier has appeared in two documentaries, one of which on Netflix. ::http://www.imdb.com/name/nm9038470/?ref_=nmbio_bio_nm

TimmyScotts (talk) 12:15, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

TimmyScotts - Per Wikipedia policy you will need to update the page. This is not the place to argue about notability. Also listicle articles such as a list of students do not qualify as notable. Adding Twitter accounts is also not notable. You are making a great arguement for Students for Trump but not Ryan fournier. I would ask Wikipedia to investigate TimmyScotts as being Ryan Fournier. Jamesharrison2014 (talk) 06:34, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ryan Fournier's page will be updated to fit standards of Wikipedia. Thank you.TimmyScotts (talk) 12:15, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I ask wikipedia to continue with the deletion procedure in the mean time until this is completed. Jamesharrison2014 (talk) 06:41, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I have made a small edit. You have edited most of the issues out of the page. TimmyScotts (talk) 12:15, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment ~~TimmyScotts~~Jamesharrison2014 just moved the page to Students For Trump, which is unsuitable because this is a biography and not about the organization. Under current circumstances, this is also disruptive. I have requested a reversal of the move [1] and would ask the editor to refrain from such actions until this AfD has run its course. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 10:37, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Needs to be moved back now especially since there is Students for Trump.PRehse (talk) 11:08, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Gah, didn't even see that. REALLY needs to be moved back. I'll expand on my request at WP:RFPM. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 11:26, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Moved back. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 11:45, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This is false. I did not move the page, I am unsure of even how to perform that action. I am new to most of these features. I made small edits last night to sources to help get the page in order with Wiki standards. It even says on Ryan Fournier’s page that Jamesharrison2014 moves the page. With that being said, edits have been made to fix the initial issues stated. TimmyScotts (talk) 12:15, 24 January 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.38.107.61 (talk) [reply]

Oops - that is correct. My apologies. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 14:33, 23 January 2018 (UTC).[reply]

Comment The proper edits have been made to the page by jamesharrison2014 and I. I welcome more to edit as well to fix any discrepancies or information not properly cited. I am asking for this deletion thread to be ended since these fixes have been made. TimmyScotts (talk) 14:44, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Elmidae,could you make amends to the Talk thread on Ryan Fournier stating that I did not transfer the page over to Students for Trump and that it was indeed Jamesharrison2014. Thank you.

Keep There are issues here, but as founder / chairman of Students for Trump he has a legitimate claim of notability and the sources are there and available elsewhere to back it up. In additon to the sources in the article from the International Business Times and from Mic, a simple Google search turned up "Meet the Young Republicans Who Founded ‘Students for Trump’", in The Chronicle of Higher Education and "National ‘Students for Trump’ effort has NC roots", in The News & Observer, both of which are about Fournier, in addition to the sources about him listed above. Alansohn (talk) 23:23, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Again there is a difference between Ryan Fournier and Students for Trump. When looking at sources are they talking about Ryan or Students for Trump. Jamesharrison2014 (talk) 00:37, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Jamesharrison2014 This would be a valid reason if Fournier didn't create the organization and lead the movement behind it. Most of what I have read on him is from a credible source and contributes to his nobility. TimmyScotts (talk) 12:15, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

They are mutally exclusive. A notable organization does not = a notable person. Jamesharrison2014 (talk) 04:58, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Correct, however if an individual creates an organization, represents the organization in print/television/etc and commentates on matters related to their field, such as Mr. Fournier and his commentary, than at that point he would be notable. Not seeing the issue here besides a few unkept sources and some informational that seemed promotional, which since has been taken care of. TimmyScotts (talk) 12:15, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

With all due respect its not my job to educate you on wikipedia policy. You are stating things that are inaccurate and I refer you to Wikipedia:Notability. Jamesharrison2014 (talk) 07:51, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I would be open to merging Ryan Fournier with Students for Trump. The same request is being considered with Charlie Kirk (activist) and Turning Point USA. Jamesharrison2014 (talk) 08:03, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Jamesharrison2014 is attempting to delete a page that has credibility and nobility. There are reliable sources which devote significant attention to Ryan Fournier’s role within the organization, not just sources which devote significant attention to the organization itself. If there was attention solely on S4T itself, then there would be no claim to notability. However, that is not the case. Significant attention focusing specifically on Ryan Fournier’s role within the organization, and in other affairs unrelated to the organization, offer a reasonable claim to notability separate from the organization itself. It would seem as if the user is being overzealous on deleting this page. TimmyScotts (talk) 17:38, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Students for Trump. Merge any sourced biographical material about the founder there. Carrite (talk) 18:02, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Merge into Students for Trump and redirect. Fournier is undoubtably notable per WP:BIO, just considering the cited IBT source alone. I reject the WP:GNG, WP:TOOSOON, and WP:POLITICIAN arguments. That being said, he is known solely for his S4T activities. Neither Fournier's article nor S4T's is very long at all, so I see no practical basis for maintaining two short articles that are essentially about the same thing. TimmyScotts and Jamesharrison2014, your positions are noted, please stop commenting here and let the AfD run its course. Closer note: it does appear from the discussion above that TimmyScotts is at best a connected contributor and at worst is violating our TOS as a paid contributor. (I am not watching this page, so please ping me if you want my attention.) --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 18:24, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: paged protected: per the request at wP:RFPP I have locked the artocle for a week. Honestly, I almost just blocked both parties in the edit warring instead, but I figured full protection would allow discussion about the article on the talk page from both parties. only (talk) 18:54, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I think the independent sources (including those linked in Alansohn's comments above) are sufficient to establish notability , and I think there is sufficient content for a standalone article. Peacock (talk) 14:34, 25 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Merge All he is known for is Students for Trump. Will consider otherwise if you can find a single source where he is not talking on behalf of the organization. Archielites (talk) 16:00, 25 January 2018 (UTC) — Archielites (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
Keep From what I can tell, this individual has quite a few notable sources written on him that take away the argument of him not having nobility per WP:BIO. I also would reject most of the claims written by the petitioner. Scavtin (talk) 22:22, 25 January 2018 (UTC) — Scavtin (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
Redirect to Students for Trump; not independently notable. Leaders of minor groups are generally redirected to respective orgs; there no reason to deviate from this practice. WP:TOOSOON and lacks WP:SIGCON that's independent of his group. K.e.coffman (talk) 02:44, 26 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Selective merge/redirect to Students for Trump, largely following rationale of WP:BLP1E and WP:BIO1E. The subject's notability stems entirely from the organization, impressive as it may be. This college student may or may not go on to become independently notable, but for the time being is nothing more than inherently tied to a single notable organization. Merely being in the news does not warrant a dedicated article per WP:NOTNEWS and WP:NOTEVERYTHING. Fournier's hobbies, birth place, and education may be verifiable but not worthy of mention. Writing op-eds for Fox Nation does not speak to notability. If we gave an article to every student in the news, Wikipedia would be even more of a laughing stock. For comparison, a 14-year-old boy made international news for bringing a clock to school, and met the President of the United States at the White House, but we discuss it at Ahmed Mohamed clock incident, the only reason he was ever in the news. Ditto for Mr. Fournier. --Animalparty! (talk) 02:16, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of North Carolina-related deletion discussions. --Animalparty! (talk) 02:40, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Conservatism-related deletion discussions. --Animalparty! (talk) 06:28, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: There are a number of issues, and I do suspect Mr. Fournier created the article himself, but the article is nonetheless notable. It just needs substantial revision and clean-up. --IndyNotes (talk) 18:42, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Merge and redirect. Even if the subject can (barely) pass GNG, that doesn't make a separate article wise. What limited notability the subject has is entirely connected to Students for Trump, and that's where information about this subject belongs, if anywhere. —swpb^{T go beyond} 19:02, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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+<div class="boilerplate afd vfd xfd-closed" style="background-color: #F3F9FF; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
-===[[:Ryan Fournier]]===
+:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).  No further edits should be made to this page.''
-{{REMOVE THIS TEMPLATE WHEN CLOSING THIS AfD|Politicians}}
+<!--Template:Afd top
+Note:  If you are seeing this page as a result of an attempt to re-nominate an article for deletion, you must manually edit the AfD nomination links to create a new discussion page using the name format of [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PAGENAME (2nd nomination)]].  When you create the new discussion page, please provide a link to this old discussion in your nomination. -->
+The result was '''redirect''' to [[Students for Trump]]. [[User:Spartaz|Spartaz]] <sup>''[[User talk:Spartaz|Humbug!]]''</sup> 06:43, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
+===[[:Ryan Fournier]]===
 :{{la|Ryan Fournier}} – (<includeonly>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ryan Fournier|View AfD]]</includeonly><noinclude>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2018 January 23#{{anchorencode:Ryan Fournier}}|View log]]</noinclude>{{int:dot-separator}} <span class="plainlinks">[https://tools.wmflabs.org/jackbot/snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Ryan_Fournier Stats]</span>)
 :({{Find sources AFD|Ryan Fournier}})
 WP:Promo
 Fails WP:GNG, WP:TOOSOON, and WP:POLITICIAN. Is a clearly WP:PROMO WP:AUTOBIO. It reeks of WP:PROMO, among many other things. The account that is edit warring has only edited 3 pages. Fournier, the school he went to, and his grandfather. Also, same account who has been on this article and only edited articles related to Fournier uploaded a copyright image to Wikipedia. [[User:Jamesharrison2014|Jamesharrison2014]] ([[User talk:Jamesharrison2014|talk]]) 04:40, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
+{{not a ballot}}
 The individual in question is classified as a public figure and a Fox News Contributor. Allow us to make proper edits to the page to avoid deletion. His page is managed by Keybridge Communications. [[User:TimmyScotts|TimmyScotts]] ([[User talk:TimmyScotts|talk]]) 12:00, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
+::So you are admitting that his PR Firm is editing this page? How could you possibly know this unless you are Fournier or the PR firm? PS he is not a fox news contributor. This is simply false. If you have any evidence to support this feel free to share. [[User:Jamesharrison2014|Jamesharrison2014]] ([[User talk:Jamesharrison2014|talk]]) 05:06, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
+:<small class="delsort-notice">Note:  This discussion has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/People|list of People-related deletion discussions]]. [[User:Mark the train|MT Train]]<sup>[[User talk:Mark the train|''Discuss'']]</sup> 05:14, 23 January 2018 (UTC)</small>
+:<small class="delsort-notice">Note:  This discussion has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Politics|list of Politics-related deletion discussions]]. [[User:Mark the train|MT Train]]<sup>[[User talk:Mark the train|''Discuss'']]</sup> 05:14, 23 January 2018 (UTC)</small>
+:<small class="delsort-notice">Note:  This discussion has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/United States of America|list of United States of America-related deletion discussions]]. [[User:Mark the train|MT Train]]<sup>[[User talk:Mark the train|''Discuss'']]</sup> 05:14, 23 January 2018 (UTC)</small>
+:::No, that is what I thought, I am unsure, apologies. To my knowledge, his page was initially created by an editor at [[.Mic]]. I worked closely to the campaign and followed some of his work, which is why I sort of help manage his page. I would like to help fix the issues on the page to avoid its deletion. [[User:TimmyScotts|TimmyScotts]] ([[User talk:TimmyScotts|talk]]) 12:15, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
+::::Again, you are mistaken. This page was created and edited by an account that has only edited Ryan Fournier which leads me to believe it is WP:PROMO. If you look at the edit history of the page it is a few users editing one single page or pages related to Fournier. Also, just out of curiousity how do you know who his PR firm is? It's not on their website and no account by that name has any relation to the page. [[User:Jamesharrison2014|Jamesharrison2014]] ([[User talk:Jamesharrison2014|talk]]) 05:25, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
+:::::I know the person at [[.Mic]] who first created the Wikipage. That's how I learned about Mr. Fournier. I assumed the page was managed by a PR firm because that's what I was told by the person at [[.Mic]], but I could be wrong. I have been helping upkeep the page and so did the person at [[.Mic]], which could explain as to why only a few people edit it. There are multiple articles out there that support the information in the wikipage as well. [[User:TimmyScotts|TimmyScotts]] ([[User talk:TimmyScotts|talk]]) 12:15, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
+::::::Who at [[.Mic]] created the page? Maybe we can get some context from them? [[User:Jamesharrison2014|Jamesharrison2014]] ([[User talk:Jamesharrison2014|talk]]) 05:36, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
+::::::I don't want to post their name on here. Would you allow me to make the proper revisions to this page to avoid its deletion. The page has potential. [[User:TimmyScotts|TimmyScotts]] ([[User talk:TimmyScotts|talk]]) 12:15, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
+:::::::I'm sorry but no one at [[.Mic]] created this page. You can make edits to the page to try and make it better but self promtion (WP:PROMO) and Copyrighted materials will be removed per wikipedia policy. [[User:Jamesharrison2014|Jamesharrison2014]] ([[User talk:Jamesharrison2014|talk]]) 05:43, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
+::::::::One of the Political Editors from [[.Mic]] created this page, I can't say much more or provide any proof because it would compromise their identity. I will make these edits in the coming days, but I wanted to revert to your changes and work from there. I hope we can also resolve this deletion thread. Thank you. [[User:TimmyScotts|TimmyScotts]] ([[User talk:TimmyScotts|talk]]) 12:15, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
+:::::::::I will let you know that many will not believe you when the account who created the article is a single IP address who has only edited the Fournier page. Also, it doesn't matter who created the page if it does not meat WP:Notability. [[User:Jamesharrison2014|Jamesharrison2014]] ([[User talk:Jamesharrison2014|talk]]) 05:49, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
+::::::::::Mr. Fournier served as the National Chairman of [[Students for Trump]], has appeared on [[Fox News]] numerous times (Which makes me believe he is a contributor of sorts). I believe that is classified as someone with WP:Notability and it follows the guidelines based off of what I have seen in articles, his social media, videos, etc. [[User:TimmyScotts|TimmyScotts]] ([[User talk:TimmyScotts|talk]]) 12:15, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
+*Delete - per nom. Not notable and seems very promotional.  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/107.242.113.12|107.242.113.12]] ([[User talk:107.242.113.12#top|talk]]) 05:58, 23 January 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
+Oppose per [[User:TimmyScotts|TimmyScotts]] on deletion -- The figure in question is public figure. He has multiple articles written about him, quoted on or contributed to. Notability is not temporary and the page has much potential to grow. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:TimmyScotts|TimmyScotts]] ([[User talk:TimmyScotts#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimmyScotts|contribs]]) 06:05, 23 January 2018 (UTC)</small> '''Admin Note''' - This is [[User:TimmyScotts|TimmyScotts]] see page history.
+::You are exactly right but no sources have been provided and copyrighted materials continue to be added. Also, you must sign your comments with 4 ~'s to identify yourself.[[User:Jamesharrison2014|Jamesharrison2014]] ([[User talk:Jamesharrison2014|talk]]) 06:13, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
+*'''Admin Note''' - [[User:TimmyScotts|TimmyScotts]] is attempting to vote more than once. If you look at the page history the above comment is by the same person but he is talking in the 3rd person to appear as if it his not him. [[User:Jamesharrison2014|Jamesharrison2014]] ([[User talk:Jamesharrison2014|talk]]) 06:11, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
+::I did not double vote, I opposed the comment added about deletion. Here are some sources on Mr. Fournier which assist in checking his Notability:
+::https://mic.com/articles/145019/meet-the-20-year-old-mastermind-behind-students-for-trump#.nnH9ydp9g
+::https://www.chronicle.com/article/Meet-the-Young-Republicans-Who/237333
+::http://redalertpolitics.com/2017-30-30-list/ryanfournier/
+::https://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/donald-trump-students-for-trump-227219
+::http://myfox8.com/2017/03/08/meet-the-nc-millennial-who-helped-trump-win-the-presidency/
+::http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/election/article104522526.html
+::http://nation.foxnews.com/2017/03/18/students-trump-founder-we-ll-be-back-2020
+::https://twitter.com/RyanAFournier (For Reference)
+::It should also be mentioned that Mr. Fournier has appeared in two documentaries, one of which on [[Netflix]]. ::http://www.imdb.com/name/nm9038470/?ref_=nmbio_bio_nm
+::[[User:TimmyScotts|TimmyScotts]] ([[User talk:TimmyScotts|talk]]) 12:15, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
+:::[[User:TimmyScotts|TimmyScotts]] - Per Wikipedia policy you will need to update the page. This is not the place to argue about notability. Also listicle articles such as a list of students do not qualify as notable. Adding Twitter accounts is also not notable.  You are making a great arguement for [[Students for Trump]] but not [[Ryan fournier]]. I would ask Wikipedia to investigate [[User:TimmyScotts|TimmyScotts]] as being Ryan Fournier. [[User:Jamesharrison2014|Jamesharrison2014]] ([[User talk:Jamesharrison2014|talk]]) 06:34, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
+::::[[Ryan Fournier]]'s page will be updated to fit standards of Wikipedia. Thank you.[[User:TimmyScotts|TimmyScotts]] ([[User talk:TimmyScotts|talk]]) 12:15, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
+:::::I ask wikipedia to continue with the deletion procedure in the mean time until this is completed. [[User:Jamesharrison2014|Jamesharrison2014]] ([[User talk:Jamesharrison2014|talk]]) 06:41, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
+:::::::I have made a small edit. You have edited most of the issues out of the page. [[User:TimmyScotts|TimmyScotts]] ([[User talk:TimmyScotts|talk]]) 12:15, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
+*'''Comment''' <s>{{u|TimmyScotts}}</s>{{u|Jamesharrison2014}} just moved the page to [[Students For Trump]], which is unsuitable because this is a biography and not about the organization. Under current circumstances, this is also disruptive. I have requested a reversal of the move [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requested_moves/Technical_requests&diff=821916375&oldid=821911062] and would ask the editor to refrain from such actions until this AfD has run its course. --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Elmidae|Elmidae]]</span> <small>([[User talk:Elmidae|talk]] · [[Special:contributions/Elmidae|contribs]])</small> 10:37, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
+::Needs to be moved back now especially since there is [[Students for Trump]].[[User:PRehse|PRehse]] ([[User talk:PRehse|talk]]) 11:08, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
+:::Gah, didn't even see that. REALLY needs to be moved back. I'll expand on my request at [[WP:RFPM]]. --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Elmidae|Elmidae]]</span> <small>([[User talk:Elmidae|talk]] · [[Special:contributions/Elmidae|contribs]])</small> 11:26, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
+::::Moved back. --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Elmidae|Elmidae]]</span> <small>([[User talk:Elmidae|talk]] · [[Special:contributions/Elmidae|contribs]])</small> 11:45, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
+:::::This is false. I did not move the page, I am unsure of even how to perform that action. I am new to most of these features. I made small edits last night to sources to help get the page in order with Wiki standards. It even says on [[Ryan Fournier]]’s page that [[Jamesharrison2014]] moves the page. With that being said, edits have been made to fix the initial issues stated. [[User:TimmyScotts|TimmyScotts]] ([[User talk:TimmyScotts|talk]]) 12:15, 24 January 2018 (UTC)  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/152.38.107.61|152.38.107.61]] ([[User talk:152.38.107.61#top|talk]]) </small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
+::::::Oops - that is correct. My apologies. --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Elmidae|Elmidae]]</span> <small>([[User talk:Elmidae|talk]] · [[Special:contributions/Elmidae|contribs]])</small> 14:33, 23 January 2018 (UTC).
+*'''Comment''' The proper edits have been made to the page by [[jamesharrison2014]] and I. I welcome more to edit as well to fix any discrepancies or information not properly cited. I am asking for this deletion thread to be ended since these fixes have been made. [[User:TimmyScotts|TimmyScotts]] ([[User talk:TimmyScotts|talk]]) 14:44, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
+:::[[User:Elmidae|Elmidae]],could you make amends to the Talk thread on [[Ryan Fournier]] stating that I did not transfer the page over to [[Students for Trump]] and that it was indeed [[Jamesharrison2014]]. Thank you.
+*'''Keep''' There are issues here, but as founder / chairman of [[Students for Trump]] he has a legitimate claim of notability and the sources are there and available elsewhere to back it up. In additon to the sources in the article from the ''[[International Business Times]]'' and from [[Mic (media company)|Mic]], a simple Google search turned up [https://www.chronicle.com/article/Meet-the-Young-Republicans-Who/237333 "Meet the Young Republicans Who Founded ‘Students for Trump’"], in  ''[[The Chronicle of Higher Education]]'' and [http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/election/article104522526.html "National ‘Students for Trump’ effort has NC roots"], in ''[[The News & Observer]]'', both of which are about Fournier, in addition to the sources about him listed above. [[User:Alansohn|Alansohn]] ([[User talk:Alansohn|talk]]) 23:23, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
+::Again there is a difference between Ryan Fournier and Students for Trump. When looking at sources are they talking about Ryan or Students for Trump. [[User:Jamesharrison2014|Jamesharrison2014]] ([[User talk:Jamesharrison2014|talk]]) 00:37, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
+::::[[User:Jamesharrison2014|Jamesharrison2014]] This would be a valid reason if Fournier didn't create the organization and lead the movement behind it. Most of what I have read on him is from a credible source and contributes to his nobility. [[User:TimmyScotts|TimmyScotts]] ([[User talk:TimmyScotts|talk]]) 12:15, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
+:::::They are mutally exclusive. A notable organization does not = a notable person. [[User:Jamesharrison2014|Jamesharrison2014]] ([[User talk:Jamesharrison2014|talk]]) 04:58, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
+::::::Correct, however if an individual creates an organization, represents the organization in print/television/etc and commentates on matters related to their field, such as Mr. Fournier and his commentary, than at that point he would be notable. Not seeing the issue here besides a few unkept sources and some informational that seemed promotional, which since has been taken care of.  [[User:TimmyScotts|TimmyScotts]] ([[User talk:TimmyScotts|talk]]) 12:15, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
+:::::::With all due respect its not my job to educate you on wikipedia policy. You are stating things that are inaccurate and I refer you to Wikipedia:Notability. [[User:Jamesharrison2014|Jamesharrison2014]] ([[User talk:Jamesharrison2014|talk]]) 07:51, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
+::::::::'''Comment''' - I would be open to merging [[Ryan Fournier]] with [[Students for Trump]]. The same request is being considered with [[Charlie Kirk (activist)]] and [[Turning Point USA]]. [[User:Jamesharrison2014|Jamesharrison2014]] ([[User talk:Jamesharrison2014|talk]]) 08:03, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
+*'''Comment''' - [[User:Jamesharrison2014|Jamesharrison2014]] is attempting to delete a page that has credibility and nobility. There are reliable sources which devote significant attention to Ryan Fournier’s role within the organization, not just sources which devote significant attention to the organization itself. If there was attention solely on S4T itself, then there would be no claim to notability. However, that is not the case. Significant attention focusing specifically on Ryan Fournier’s role within the organization, and in other affairs unrelated to the organization, offer a reasonable claim to notability separate from the organization itself. It would seem as if the user is being overzealous on deleting this page. [[User:TimmyScotts|TimmyScotts]] ([[User talk:TimmyScotts|talk]]) 17:38, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
+* '''Redirect''' to [[Students for Trump]]. Merge any sourced biographical material about the founder there. [[User:Carrite|Carrite]] ([[User talk:Carrite|talk]]) 18:02, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
+* '''Merge into [[Students for Trump]] and redirect.''' Fournier is undoubtably notable per [[WP:BIO]], just considering the cited IBT source alone. I reject the WP:GNG, WP:TOOSOON, and WP:POLITICIAN arguments. That being said, he is known solely for his S4T activities. Neither Fournier's article nor S4T's is very long at all, so I see no practical basis for maintaining two short articles that are essentially about the same thing. TimmyScotts and Jamesharrison2014, your positions are noted, please stop commenting here and let the AfD run its course. '''Closer note:''' it does appear from the discussion above that TimmyScotts is at best a connected contributor and at worst is violating our TOS as a [[WP:PAID|paid contributor]]. {{nw}} --[[User:DrFleischman|Dr. Fleischman]] ([[User talk:DrFleischman|talk]]) 18:24, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
+*'''Note: paged protected''': per the request at wP:RFPP I have locked the artocle for a week. Honestly, I almost just blocked both parties in the edit warring instead, but I figured full protection would allow discussion about the article on the talk page from both parties. [[User:Only|only]] ([[User talk:Only#top|talk]]) 18:54, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
+*'''Keep'''.  I think the independent sources (including those linked in Alansohn's comments above) are sufficient to establish notability , and I think there is sufficient content for a standalone article.  [[User:PCock|Peacock]] ([[User talk:PCock|talk]]) 14:34, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
+*'''Merge''' All he is known for is [[Students for Trump]]. Will consider otherwise if you can find a single source where he is not talking on behalf of the organization. [[User:Archielites|Archielites]] ([[User talk:Archielites|talk]]) 16:00, 25 January 2018 (UTC) <small>— [[User:Archielites|Archielites]] ([[User talk:Archielites|talk]]&#32;• [[Special:Contributions/Archielites|contribs]]) has made [[Wikipedia:Single-purpose account|few or no other edits]] outside this topic. </small>
+*'''Keep''' From what I can tell, this individual has quite a few notable sources written on him that take away the argument of him not having nobility per [[WP:BIO]]. I also would reject most of the claims written by the petitioner. [[User:Scavtin|Scavtin]] ([[User talk:Scavtin|talk]]) 22:22, 25 January 2018 (UTC) <small>— [[User:Scavtin|Scavtin]] ([[User talk:Scavtin|talk]]&#32;• [[Special:Contributions/Scavtin|contribs]]) has made [[Wikipedia:Single-purpose account|few or no other edits]] outside this topic. </small>
+*'''Redirect''' to [[Students for Trump]]; not independently notable. Leaders of minor groups are generally redirected to respective orgs; there no reason to deviate from this practice. [[WP:TOOSOON]] and lacks [[WP:SIGCON]] that's ''independent'' of his group. [[User:K.e.coffman|K.e.coffman]] ([[User talk:K.e.coffman|talk]]) 02:44, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
+*'''Selective merge/redirect''' to [[Students for Trump]], largely following rationale of [[WP:BLP1E]] and [[WP:BIO1E]]. The subject's notability stems entirely from the organization, impressive as it may be. This college student may or may not go on to become independently notable, but for the time being is nothing more than inherently tied to a single notable organization. Merely being in the news does not warrant a dedicated article per [[WP:NOTNEWS]] and [[WP:NOTEVERYTHING]]. Fournier's hobbies, birth place, and education may be [[WP:VNOTSUFF|verifiable but not worthy of mention]]. Writing op-eds for [[Fox Nation]] does not speak to notability. If we gave an article to every student in the news, Wikipedia would be even more of a laughing stock. For comparison, a 14-year-old boy made international news for bringing a clock to school, and met the President of the United States at the White House, but we discuss it at [[Ahmed Mohamed clock incident]], the ''only'' reason he was ever in the news. Ditto for Mr. Fournier. [[User:Animalparty|--Animalparty!]] ([[User talk:Animalparty|talk]]) 02:16, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
+:<small class="delsort-notice">Note:  This discussion has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/North Carolina|list of North Carolina-related deletion discussions]]. [[User:Animalparty|--Animalparty!]] ([[User talk:Animalparty|talk]]) 02:40, 28 January 2018 (UTC)</small>
+:<small class="delsort-notice">Note:  This discussion has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Conservatism|list of Conservatism-related deletion discussions]]. [[User:Animalparty|--Animalparty!]] ([[User talk:Animalparty|talk]]) 06:28, 28 January 2018 (UTC)</small>
+*'''Keep''': There are a number of issues, and I do suspect Mr. Fournier created the article himself, but the article is nonetheless notable. It just needs substantial revision and clean-up. --[[User:IndyNotes|IndyNotes]] ([[User talk:IndyNotes|talk]]) 18:42, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
+*'''Merge and redirect'''. Even if the subject can (barely) pass GNG, that doesn't make a separate article wise. What limited notability the subject has is entirely connected to [[Students for Trump]], and that's where information about this subject belongs, if anywhere. —[[User:Swpb|<u>swpb</u>]]<sup>[[User talk:Swpb|''T'']] [[Wikipedia:Beyond civility|go beyond]]</sup> 19:02, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
+{{clear}}
+:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.'' <!--Template:Afd bottom--></div>