Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Boshin War

Boshin War

Detailed article on the little known subject of the Boshin War (the 1868 Japanese civil war that led to the Meiji restoration), with lots of related links. This article clarifies some of the historical background to the 2003 Hollywood movie "The Last Samurai". Essentially self-nom PHG 15:55, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

• Support- This war has been a HIGHLY ignored subject in Japanese and world history, and I find it HIGHLY ironic given how formative it was to be on the subsequent decades, as well as the historical discourse that emerged on the period. I'll support this nomination one hundred percent. -Tadakuni 16:06, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
• Support. Comprehensive, well-written, pictures, links, sections, references - even references in Japanese. Ooh. LordAmeth 16:09, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
• Object: where are the citations? (A map would be nice too, but not necessarily something I would object over.) Kirill Lokshin 17:02, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

• The citations are at the bottom of the page under "Notes", and growing. Should you wish any particular statement to be qualified, please advise. Regards. PHG 17:38, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

• General growth is fine; I'd like to see, on average, at least one citation in every paragraph, as otherwise it's quite difficult to guess where the material is coming from. (Are there no other major works on the conflict, incidentally? I would have expected that this topic would attract a greater variety of historians; is this not the case?)

• Essentially done for the citations. Surprisingly very little English material is available on the subject (the French have more, due to the involvement of Jules Brunet). A search for Boshin War on Amazon gives nothing specific on this subject.PHG 19:29, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

• "The Cambridge History of Japan Volume 5: The Nineteenth Century" devotes a page to the conflict (page 358, which is in Chapter 5, "The Meiji Restoration," by Marius B. Jansen).

• Aside from that, I'd also suggest increasing the lead to at least two paragraphs, and staggering some more images to the left margin, as the right one is getting quite crowded. Kirill Lokshin 18:24, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

• Done (longer introduction). Moved a few images on the left. Regards. PHG 19:29, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

• Looks good. Is there any chance of working the links from the "See also" section into the text and eliminating it? Kirill Lokshin 19:47, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

• Done. The links are in the article now. PHG 05:56, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• Ok, support from me, then. Kirill Lokshin 06:04, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• Support Terrific article of high importance. Very many details and good pictures. Hello32020 20:05, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
• Support I think this is superb. Rlevse 21:34, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
• Support. The lead is great, the vocab exact, and the significance understandable. The paragraphs are laconic, which initially made me feel alarmed, but said all that they needed to say. The use of piped links is subtle, but to me, a sign of professionalism. Good work. Gracenotes ^T § 22:42, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
• Support. As per Tadakuni. Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo 04:04, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
• Comment Since I didn't see the article go through peer review, most of my comments are the sorts of things that would have been mentioned there.
  • First, there are both US and Commonwealth varieties of English in the article. These should be made uniform, and in accordance with Wikipedia policy, they should be the variety used in the first substantial contributions to the article. Examples of words in one or another variety include "favorable," "burnt," "harbour," "defences."

• Done (I think). PHG 12:02, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• • The term kangun is first introduced in the caption of a photo. It would be best to introduce it in the main text or to eliminate it, e.g. in favor of a term in English.

• Done. I dropped the premature mention in the caption.PHG 11:26, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• • The terms "shogunate" and "bakufu" are used interchangeably. Readers will find it easiest to follow the article if one term is used consistently and the other eliminated. Since "shogunate" contains the word "shogun," it's easy for non-specialists to understand (in my opinion).

• Done. I followed your advice and harmonized with "Shogunate". PHG 11:26, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• • The closing sentence of the lead section reads, "facts which tend to be overlooked in modern history." This is opinion about modern history, not fact about the Boshin War, and I recommend removing it from the article.

• Right. Dropped it. PHG 11:26, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• • The same person has two names in the article: Keiki and Yoshinobu. It's easiest for the reader if you select one and use it consistently.

• Done. Used Yoshinobu thoughout.PHG 11:58, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• • Political background
  • Early discontent
  • "Unequal treaties" should be lowercase.

• Done.PHG 11:42, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• • Sonno joi is described in parentheses with the abbreviation "lit." I recommend spelling the word "literally" in full.

• Done. PHG 11:42, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• • "Barbarians" should be lowercase.

• DonePHG 11:42, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• • Words like "ronin," "samurai," and "daimyo" are English, but I recommend forming plurals without adding "s."

• DonePHG 11:42, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• • Southern coalition
  • Inserting "British" to make "the British bombardment of Kagoshima will remind the reader of the reason for the word "ironically."

• Done PHG 11:42, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• • Satsuma and Chōshū are "southern" here but "western" later (see Aftermath:Pardon, and Westernization after all, "The western fiefs of Satsuma, Chōshū and Tosa...). For clarity, directions like these should be consistent.

Done PHG 11:53, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• • Surrender of Edo
  • "Eight" should be lowercase.

• Done PHG 11:42, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• • Resistance of the Northern Coalition
  • Substituting "managed to procure two of the three Gatling guns in Japan as well as 2,000 modern French rifles" is smoother.

• Done PHG 11:42, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• • "Daimyo of Nagaoka" has uppercase "D" but elsewhere "daimyo of X" has lowercase; this should be made consistent.

• Done PHG 11:42, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• • Creation of the Ezo Republic
  • The phrase "handful of faithful French military advisers (notably Jules Brunet)" is a literal repeat; it would be nice to rephrase it.

• Done PHG 11:42, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• • Naval battle of Miyako Bay
  • The "rebels" organized a plan, but which side is the rebels at this time and place?

• The Shogunate side. Done. PHG 11:42, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• • Battle of Hakodate
  • "Although Enomoto had resolved to fight to the end, and had sent his valuables to his adversary for safekeeping ( ... ), the general of the Imperial troops Kuroda Kiyotaka." -- this sentence is incomplete.

• Done PHG 11:42, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• • Aftermath
  • Pardon, and Westernization after all
  • "Arguably" is what Wikipedians call a "weasel word." Consider whether the sentence is true or not, or rephrase the sentence in a way that it's true without "arguably."

• Thanks. Done PHG 11:42, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• • Later depictions of the war
  • "In modern summaries, the Meiji restoration is often described as a "bloodless revolution" leading to the sudden modernization of Japan." This is opinion about modern summaries, not fact about the Boshin War, and I advocate removing it, along with editing the beginning of the next sentence. "Admittedly" is unnecessary and I recommend deleting it.

• Took away "Admittedly". However I would tend to think that a discussion of modern accounts of the Boshin War also deserves mention in a comprehensive article on the Boshin War. PHG 11:47, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• • "Later Japanese depictions of the war ..." is a statement about (need this be said?) later Japanese depictions, not about the war. Is it necessary in an article on the war?

• Same as above. I would tend to think that a discussion of later depictions of the Boshin War deserves mention in a comprehensive article on the Boshin War. PHG 11:47, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• • Cinematographic adaptations
  • This section is cursory and Western. "The Last Samurai" is worth mentioning, but many additional films treat the subject, which is a recurring topic for television drama as well. This is an excellent opportunity to introduce the English-speaking reader to the body of Japanese work on the subject. One recent example is ja:壬生義士伝, a January 2 ten-hour production starring Ken Watanabe.

• Done. Thanks. PHG 11:52, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• Most of these comments are minor. I expect that this outstanding article can become featured very quickly. Fg2 10:24, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• Thank you for the great and highly detailed feedback! PHG 11:47, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• Enthusiastic support and thanks for a great article! Fg2 12:17, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• Comment. The caption for Image:Land & Naval Battle of Hakodate.JPG is gargantuan and creates an image jam in the text. Should be pruned. --Ghirla ^-трёп- 10:34, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

• I changed the side of the image and shortened the text with a reference so as to avoid the image jam. Thank you. PHG 17:58, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

• Object. I'd like to support this, but I can't just yet. The prose is a little rough and flabby. The parenthetical statements in the very first paragraph need to be cleaned up, and some verbiage could be trimmed. The phrase "In a final chapter to the war, the Commander-in-Chief of the Shogun's Navy Enomoto Takeaki" is used twice verbatim within a few paragraphs, suggesting that much more copy-editing needs to be done. Also, once Yoshinobu surrendered and the resistence declared a republic, can they still be called a "Shogunate rebels?" I'd like to try my hand at the copy, if you'd not mind. Other, random issues: When, where, and how was Yoshinobu captured? What was the role of the foreign powers? (I know that the Europeans withheld a warship from the Imperial faction for a while, until the government gave assurances, which they reneged on, that it wouldn't be used in the conflict. See: Keene's Emperor of Japan.) Could we get an English term for "Kangun," and paralleling "Shogunate" in the infobox, how about something like "Imperial faction/court?" Meiji and those surrounding him surely had things to say or rescripts to issue. "Later depictions of the war" could probably be combined with "Cinematographic adaptations," retaining the former's title. Also, I'm worried about the images: perhaps it's just my browser, but some of the text seems obscured by one or two. The second image of Enomoto could probably be cut without loss, and the very last image's caption seems a little big. Lastly, perhaps you could use Template:nihongo for all the kanji? --Monocrat 19:54, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

• Thanks for your comments and edits. I think most of your points have been addressed by now (I am not sure how to deal with the Nihongo Template though). The warship you mention is the Kotetsu, which was released after the Meiji government was established in October 1868. I added elements on the diplomatic position of foreign powers throughout the conflict. Regards. PHG 05:01, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

• I've made a bunch more edits for content, but the prose still needs a lot of work. There are some untranslated kanji, such as 公議政体派. Could you give me romaji, and I can fiddle with the template? I'll leave more comments on the talk page.--Monocrat 06:35, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

• Thanks for the edits. The romaji for 公議政体派 is "KōgiSeitaiHa". I'm shifting to the talk page as well. PHG 18:16, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Support Full disclosure: I've worked a lot on this over the past few days. There are a few minor things, like missing page citations, that I would like to see. An extra set of eyes copy-editing would be a good idea, too. But I think the article is ready to be featured. I might add one or two more things here and there when I get a chance, but they're small. One note, though: I would exercise caution in adding more images or changing the settings of existing ones.--Monocrat 17:54, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

• Thank you for all the great edits! PHG 17:58, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

• Object. I don't think we should consider an article about a military campaign featured class until it has a map. There are also some unreferenced paras; please increase referencing density. 'Franco-Japanese relations' section is a stub section, please expand or merge.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  18:33, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

• Good idea, map done, paragraph merged. Essentially all paragraphs have now one or several references. PHG 20:09, 26 October 2006 (UTC)