Talk:2018 North Korea–United States Singapore Summit: Difference between revisions
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== Addition Mar. 11 message to Trump via So. Korean delegation from Kim Jong-un == |
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<blockquote>"The official, however, refused to elaborate on Kim’s message to Trump concerning topics other than the summit proposal. A senior Seoul official said Saturday that Chung had delivered an additional message from Kim to Trump that was unrelated to the summit invitation.</p><p>"'It was to build trust for the summit, and it is something not directly related to denuclearization,' the source said. 'After listening to this, Trump showed a very positive response.'</p><p>"Speculation is high that Kim might have promised the release of three Korean-Americans detained in the North in order to facilitate the summit."</p><p>--[http://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/article/article.aspx?aId=3045497 Mar. 14 Korea JongAng Daily]</blockquote>--[[User:Hodgdon's secret garden|Hodgdon's secret garden]] ([[User talk:Hodgdon's secret garden|talk]]) 20:10, 14 March 2018 (UTC) |
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Yep, we need to see more news, but can we trust all news? .:)... [[User:Goodtiming8871|Goodtiming8871]] ([[User talk:Goodtiming8871|talk]]) 10:40, 18 March 2018 (UTC) [[User:Goodtiming8871|Goodtiming8871]] ([[User talk:Goodtiming8871|talk]]) 10:40, 18 March 2018 (UTC) |
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== No letter == |
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:Altho it had [http://video.ap.org/Kim-Jong-Un-Invites-President-Trump-to-North-Korea-33617194 been reported Chung had passed a handwritten letter by Kim on to Trump],[http://mynews4.com/news/nation-world/report-kim-jong-un-is-willing-to-meet-with-president-trump] it was later clarified that Kim's invitation that Chung relayed to Trump had been done verbally. ("The invitation was delivered Thursday by North Korean national security advisor Chung Eui-yong. In the message - which was originally reported to have been delivered in a letter -- Kim Jong Un also pledged to stop nuclear and missile testing. A senior administration official said later that the message was delivered orally and not in writing[...]."---[https://www.ajc.com/news/national/major-announcement-north-korea-expected-president-trump-says/UCVplSyKN9hv0SXoQUOEZN/ Atlanta Journal-Constitution])--[[User:Hodgdon's secret garden|Hodgdon's secret garden]] ([[User talk:Hodgdon's secret garden|talk]]) 05:51, 15 March 2018 (UTC) |
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::That's surprising. How would Kim know that his message was passed on faithfully???--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 08:29, 15 March 2018 (UTC) |
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:::Dunno but it does seem Kim prefers relaying this sentiment verbally and via various intermediaries. Eg in a Mar.28 tweet Trump wrote "Received message last night from XI JINPING[...]that KIM looks forward to his meeting with me."[https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/27/asia/north-korea-kim-jong-un-china-visit/index.html]--[[User:Hodgdon's secret garden|Hodgdon's secret garden]] ([[User talk:Hodgdon's secret garden|talk]]) 20:48, 1 April 2018 (UTC) |
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::::Yes, it seems to be a strategy. Kim could just ring Trump, after all...--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 09:39, 13 April 2018 (UTC) |
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== The composite image of the 2 leaders == |
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I'm sorry, but this image might give the impression at a passing glance that it is a picture of the two men together. I know it's a montage, the backgrounds are quite different, and anyone examining it at all closely would see that, but we shouldn't, even potentially, confuse or mislead the reader, or cause them to go "wtf?". I suppose with a more explanatory caption, making clear it's a composite image it could be ok, but at the moment I'm quite uncomfortable with it - especially with the caption it has. My first inclination was to remove it, but I'm posting here for other opinions in case others see it differently. --<span style="font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#004d80;"> [[User talk:Begoon|Begoon]]</span> 14:55, 17 March 2018 (UTC) |
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:{{re|Begoon}} I've changed it to use the multiple images template. <span style="font-family: serif; letter-spacing: 0.1em">– [[User:Finnusertop|Finnusertop]]</span> ([[User talk:Finnusertop|talk]] ⋅ [[Special:Contributions/Finnusertop|contribs]]) 15:23, 17 March 2018 (UTC) |
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::Thanks, that's better. I took the liberty of reducing the size to align it with the other image. The multiple-image template is fiddly to use... --<span style="font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#004d80;"> [[User talk:Begoon|Begoon]]</span> 15:35, 17 March 2018 (UTC) |
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Thank you for efforts, it looks great :) [[User:Goodtiming8871|Goodtiming8871]] ([[User talk:Goodtiming8871|talk]]) 10:39, 18 March 2018 (UTC) |
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== Reactions? == |
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Do we really need to list reactions from random people around the world before the summit has even started? If they are important, they should be included in ''Developments''.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 10:06, 6 April 2018 (UTC) |
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:It will soon be confusing what these people are reacting to, as the developments unfold.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 10:11, 10 April 2018 (UTC) |
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::I've removed the "Reactions" section. It was just a random "quote farm". Consisting of quotes as far back as March, it made no chronological sense, and added nothing to the article.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 06:37, 3 June 2018 (UTC) |
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I believe that the reactions from the world about the historic summit; it would undoubtedly add values to the article as all parts of countries see differently the Trump - Kim summit. Trump-Kim Summit has a positive and negative view even in the United States. I think it is important to have a balanced view of these reactions in Wikipedia. |
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I think it is a procedure to ask for the consent and opinion of several people first before the removing the one topic regarding the contribution of Wikipedians. If you think you need to sort the contents in chronological order, instead of merely erasing them, arrange the contents in chronological order. I would recover the relevant topic as a first step. [[User:Goodtiming8871|Goodtiming8871]] ([[User talk:Goodtiming8871|talk]]) |
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:I think two months was long enough to wait for a response. The problem is that the reactions are detached from the chronological structure of the article. As time has gone on, people have reacted to different things, but these are all lumped together. Are we going to end up with reactions to the actual summit lumped together with reactions to the proposal???--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 20:53, 3 June 2018 (UTC) |
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:From my understanding about the interest of the historic summit, and as per your point to separate the reactions about the proposed summit and actual summit, it would be appropriate to create another section for the responses to the actual summit on the date of 12 June 2018. [[User:Goodtiming8871|Goodtiming8871]] ([[User talk:Goodtiming8871|talk]]) 00:11, 4 June 2018 (UTC) |
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::I agree, Why are there 20 countries that just basically say "Yay, good job" in different forms on here? Half o them do not matter....[[User:Gvstaylor1|Gvstaylor1]] ([[User talk:Gvstaylor1|talk]]) 13:43, 13 June 2018 (UTC) |
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== nuclear weapons strategic asset == |
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What is a nuclear weapons strategic asset? Is it a strategic nuclear weapon or delivery means or weapons storage or command and control, or launch facilities or what?--[[User:Arado|Arado]] ([[User talk:Arado|talk]]) 12:36, 20 April 2018 (UTC) |
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:I think you may see it as a [[Trump (card games)|trump]] in a [[trick-taking game|trick-taking]] [[card game|game of cards]]. How a [[map]] works. Either it [[List of states with nuclear weapons|works]] or it [[Failure|doesn't]]. Does that [[Bluff (poker)|make sense]]? [[User:Wakari07|Wakari07]] ([[User talk:Wakari07|talk]]) 04:26, 24 May 2018 (UTC) |
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== Why now? == |
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Are there any sources analysing why North Korea is offering to meet with Trump at all, let alone agreeing to this summit? Last I heard, Trump was insulting Kim Jong-un on twitter. This article currently says the summit is happening with no analysis of why. I find it hard to believe that the North Koreans spontaneously decided to invite America to the summit out of the goodness of their own hearts. [[User:Hypershock|Hypershock]] ([[User talk:Hypershock|talk]]) 12:10, 22 April 2018 (UTC) |
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:Good point. Part of the answer can be found at [[North Korea–South Korea relations]]. However, you seem to have the misconception that North Korea was refusing to negotiate with the USA, whereas the USA was refusing to negotiate with North Korea ("strategic patience"). North Korea hasn't really shifted its position. But, yes, this should be covered here.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 21:37, 23 April 2018 (UTC) |
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::Good question. For myself, I wouldn't feel knowledgeable enough to venture a guess. That said, one source, at least, opines: "North Korea’s ideal to aim for, therefore, its shimmering vision of a more prosperous future, is not Vietnam but Belarus. To achieve a development of the North Korean economy and its re-orientation towards Russia, Kim probably needs two treaties — not just one. With Trump, he needs a treaty ending sanctions on North Korea and allowing it to make arrangements with the Western private sector in its own interests. With Russia, he needs a treaty of alliance and assistance, ideally funded by the Western banking system."[https://www.theglobalist.com/north-korea-kim-jong-un-united-states-donald-trump/]--[[User:Hodgdon's secret garden|Hodgdon's secret garden]] ([[User talk:Hodgdon's secret garden|talk]]) 01:21, 24 April 2018 (UTC) |
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:::The problem is there's a lot of analysis, some of it merely reflecting the agenda or prejudices of its authors. I think we'd want to look for the main points that most people make, but more importantly the things are undoubtably true. That is, it's better to say that President Moon was elected on a promise to return to the [[Sunshine Policy]] than to try to get a mind-reading of Kim Jong Un.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 09:25, 24 April 2018 (UTC) |
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::::I've added a "Background" section which, I hope, goes some way to explain why the summit might be happening.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 10:19, 24 April 2018 (UTC) |
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:::::Hmm. Per [[Robert Einhorn]] ("a former State Department official who met with Kim’s father as part of the Clinton administration negotiations with North Korea"), as quoted in USA Today, Kim "likes to take the initiative. He likes to control the agenda and he likes to keep his adversaries off balance. Looked at from a professional point of view what he has been doing has been quite impressive."[https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/04/24/north-korea-summit-kim-jong-un-donald-trump/546392002/]--[[User:Hodgdon's secret garden|Hodgdon's secret garden]] ([[User talk:Hodgdon's secret garden|talk]]) 20:38, 25 April 2018 (UTC) |
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== Requested move 24 May 2018 == |
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<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top --> |
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:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[WP:requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]]. No further edits should be made to this section. '' |
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The result of the move request was: '''Closed''' – As the nominator, I am making the decision to close this request as new information is surfacing that the meeting will still happen. While these are just rumors, I apologize for jumping the gun to make this request. [[User:JE98|JE98]] ([[User talk:JE98|talk]]) 16:48, 25 May 2018 (UTC) |
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---- |
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[[:2018 North Korea–United States summit]] → {{no redirect|2018 planned North Korea–United States summit}} – Now that the summit has been cancelled, I feel like this would be a more appropriate name, or something similar to this effect. [[User:JE98|JE98]] ([[User talk:JE98|talk]]) 14:31, 24 May 2018 (UTC) |
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: But, doesn't ''planned'' imply "in the works"? I wonder if "cancelled" is more appropriate. ---[[User:Another Believer|<span style="color:navy">Another Believer</span>]] <sub>([[User talk:Another Believer|<span style="color:#C60">Talk</span>]])</sub> 14:50, 24 May 2018 (UTC) |
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:*'''Oppose''' - Both are unnecessary additions. The lead sentence would better explain this than a lengthy title, ie. "The '''2018 North Korea–United States summit''' was a planned meeting between ... which was cancelled following a re-escalation of tensions between the two nations." - '''[[User:Floydian|<span style="color: #5A5AC5;">Floydian</span>]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:Floydian|<span style="color: #3AAA3A;">τ</span>]]</sup> <sub>[[Special:Contributions/Floydian|<span style="color: #3AAA3A;">¢</span>]]</sub> 15:01, 24 May 2018 (UTC) |
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:*'''Oppose''' - both are bad. planned suggest it's still in process and has not occurred yet. Cancellation means it's never going to occur. Even with the option to restart, this article should only exist after the summit has taken place. It was pre-mature to start a independent Wiki article that is separate from [[2017–18 North Korea crisis]]. This is just one of many twists and turns, doesn't deserve it's own independent article.[[User:Rwat128|Rwat128]] ([[User talk:Rwat128|talk]]) 17:06, 24 May 2018 (UTC) |
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*'''Comment''' – {{Ping|Another Believer|Floydian}} My goal here is to say that the meeting was a failure in the article's title. I realize the word "planned" may not be the best option. [[User:JE98|JE98]] ([[User talk:JE98|talk]]) 15:28, 24 May 2018 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose''' unnecessary for disambiguation purposes and does not change any truth claims. Planned, cancelled, and concluded summits are all "summits". |
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*'''Comment''' – I |
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:{{u|JE98}}, I would argue that this is not what titles are for. Topics are described in article contents. <span style="font-family: serif; letter-spacing: 0.1em">– [[User:Finnusertop|Finnusertop]]</span> ([[User talk:Finnusertop|talk]] ⋅ [[Special:Contributions/Finnusertop|contribs]]) 17:26, 24 May 2018 (UTC) |
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<s>*'''Comment''' – There is still a chance that the meeting may happen. If nothing occurs before 12 June or there is not even any chance of it occurring before then (North Korea and the US both cancel prior to 12 June), then we should consider merging or rewriting the article to mention the development of the plans until the cancellation. [[User:Dreigorich|Dreigorich]] ([[User talk:Dreigorich|talk]]) 18:43, 24 May 2018 (UTC)</s> |
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:*'''Oppose''' – Remove top page clutter. "Planned" by whom? [[User:Wakari07|Wakari07]] ([[User talk:Wakari07|talk]]) 07:02, 25 May 2018 (UTC) |
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*'''Support''' – The title is problematic and inherently misleading, as though [[Attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan]] were titled "Assassination of Ronald Reagan", or [[1919 Polish coup attempt]] were titled "1919 Polish coup". Possibilities would include "Failed/Canceled/Planned/Aborted 2018 North Korea–United States summit". [[User:Doremo|Doremo]] ([[User talk:Doremo|talk]]) 07:33, 25 May 2018 (UTC) |
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*'''Support''' in part — We should say, and should have always said, '''Proposed 2018 North Korea–United States summit'''. It's a mistake to talk about what "will be". We should talk about what is. I also agree that it's too soon to say the summit is cancelled. North Korea has indicated they are still interested, and no doubt South Korea and China will intervene. Again, we should talk about what is: Trump has said he's pulling out. This could just be a negotiating ploy. However, we should say the summit is "proposed" until it happens. A proposed summit or a cancelled summit is not a summit.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 08:20, 25 May 2018 (UTC) |
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*Change to '''Partial support''' as per Jack Upland. [[User:Dreigorich|Dreigorich]] ([[User talk:Dreigorich|talk]]) 15:15, 25 May 2018 (UTC) |
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---- |
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Move review|move review]]. No further edits should be made to this section.''</div><!-- Template:RM bottom --> |
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==Cancelled Summit, suggest Merger with 2017-2018 North Korea Crisis== |
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My suggestion to all is that Wiki article should be merged with [[2017–18 North Korea crisis]] as a new subsection, it doesn't deserve an independent thread since it was cancelled event that never actually occurred. Even if Trump left the option to continue it, this article should only exist after the summit has occurred, not if it's cancelled. [[User:Rwat128|Rwat128]] ([[User talk:Rwat128|talk]]) 17:04, 24 May 2018 (UTC) |
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:<s>'''Support''' – Not a bad idea, we would just have to condense the information. [[User:JE98|JE98]] ([[User talk:JE98|talk]]) 19:13, 24 May 2018 (UTC)</s> |
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:That would be okay as long as someone by God removes the crazy "Crisis" from that article title - there ain't no crisis. It's business as usual on the Korean peninsula. [[Special:Contributions/50.111.48.95|50.111.48.95]] ([[User talk:50.111.48.95|talk]]) 21:11, 24 May 2018 (UTC) |
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I'd disagree with that, and while this may be an oversimplification of the DPRK-US relations prior to this current administration, this is more dangerous than any previous confrontations have been (I see that the 2013 North Korean crisis page has apparently been deleted, as if to magnify the seriousness of this one.)([[User:Sirkh1|Sirkh1]] ([[User talk:Sirkh1|talk]]) 22:05, 24 May 2018 (UTC)) |
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:The decision to merge 2013 Korean crisis to [[2013 in North Korea]] was made in 2015, so it has nothing to do with the 2017 article: [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2013 Korean crisis]]. <span style="font-family: serif; letter-spacing: 0.1em">– [[User:Finnusertop|Finnusertop]]</span> ([[User talk:Finnusertop|talk]] ⋅ [[Special:Contributions/Finnusertop|contribs]]) 22:55, 24 May 2018 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose''' – The scheduled summit has received sufficient coverage to justify a separate article, even if the summit doesn't end up happening (see [[WP:DEGRADE]]). Plus, reported details about the summit's preparation and why it was canceled would just clutter the [[2017–18 North Korea crisis]] article (see [[WP:SIZE]]). <em><sup>[[User:FallingGravity|Falling]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:FallingGravity|Gravity]]</sub></em> 23:29, 24 May 2018 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose''' – These are early days. [[User:Kencf0618|kencf0618]] ([[User talk:Kencf0618|talk]]) 00:05, 25 May 2018 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose''' — I agree it's too soon. I don't think the crisis article would be a good merger target. This would turn that article into an extended narrative of North Korea's international relations, which is not useful and not encyclopedic. I think a better target would be [[North Korea–United States relations]]. However, as I said it's premature and a merger may not be necessarily as the proposed summit is notable enough for its own article.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 08:27, 25 May 2018 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose and close''' – Now that new information is surfacing that the meeting still could be on, I change my vote. In fact, now that I look at it, there is too much information here to merge it in. [[User:JE98|JE98]] ([[User talk:JE98|talk]]) 16:50, 25 May 2018 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose and close''' as per above. Jeez, my opinion seems to change so much based on information. If it's still on, close and don't merge. [[User:Dreigorich|Dreigorich]] ([[User talk:Dreigorich|talk]]) 19:58, 25 May 2018 (UTC) |
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*'''Support''' It sets a bad precedent to create an independent article for every event that never takes place. This is a good example of "Jumping the gone" on a premature summit. If Wiki had a proposed/schedule summit, there would be thousands of summit events. [[User:Rwat128|Rwat128]] ([[User talk:Rwat128|talk]]) 01:11, 26 May 2018 (UTC) |
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:There's still a possibility of it happening - it's not fully over. Trump cancelled it and then changed his mind - the possibility of it happening is still there. [[Special:Contributions/8.40.151.110|8.40.151.110]] ([[User talk:8.40.151.110|talk]]) 14:54, 26 May 2018 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose'''. This specific event is too stand-alone and separate to be merged into the (also) stand-alone subject of the North Korean crisis article. Cancelled or not (and of course it happened) the summit itself was and is significant. So unlike what Rwat128 said above, this here is too big, too historic, too significant to be considered like "every event". It's obviously something different. Both articles could (and should) ''mention'' each other (obviously), but not be merged, and diluted, in that sense. But at this point, the matter is moot and closed. (And should stay that way) [[User:Historium Scriv|Historium Scriv]] ([[User talk:Historium Scriv|talk]]) 22:42, 12 June 2018 (UTC) |
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== gaddafi sodomized? == |
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I don't know if this is trolling or what but it says on the current page that "Libyan rebels captured, beat up, sodomized and executed Gaddafi". I’m not aware of any credible source that he was raped or sodomized. This should either be deleted or properly cited. Thanks. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Rayansb|Rayansb]] ([[User talk:Rayansb#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Rayansb|contribs]]) 20:43, 27 May 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:It's right there in the cited source (Global News). <span style="font-family: serif; letter-spacing: 0.1em">– [[User:Finnusertop|Finnusertop]]</span> ([[User talk:Finnusertop|talk]] ⋅ [[Special:Contributions/Finnusertop|contribs]]) 20:52, 27 May 2018 (UTC) |
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::Yes, but I think it's enough to say he was killed. This detail does detract from the narrative.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 08:28, 28 May 2018 (UTC) |
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:::But it is relevant. That's why reliable sources mention it. The implicit message being of course that not only will you die if you don't cooperate, but you'll die in a very bad way. <span style="font-family: serif; letter-spacing: 0.1em">– [[User:Finnusertop|Finnusertop]]</span> ([[User talk:Finnusertop|talk]] ⋅ [[Special:Contributions/Finnusertop|contribs]]) 11:45, 28 May 2018 (UTC) |
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::::Well, actually you'll die if you do co-operate.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 19:57, 28 May 2018 (UTC) |
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:::::::::I think the Libyan common people had quite a grudge against Gaddafi whether he 'cooperated' or not. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/50.111.55.122|50.111.55.122]] ([[User talk:50.111.55.122#top|talk]]) 15:00, 2 June 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:::::Blah blah blah blah, Gold Standard, insert conspiracy theory here. '''Strong oppose''' per [[WP:CRYSTALBALL]] - '''[[User:Floydian|<span style="color: #5A5AC5;">Floydian</span>]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:Floydian|<span style="color: #3AAA3A;">τ</span>]]</sup> <sub>[[Special:Contributions/Floydian|<span style="color: #3AAA3A;">¢</span>]]</sub> 20:19, 28 May 2018 (UTC) |
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::::::What are you talking about???--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 08:35, 29 May 2018 (UTC) |
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:::::::Remove it. It's a fringe theory. - '''[[User:Floydian|<span style="color: #5A5AC5;">Floydian</span>]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:Floydian|<span style="color: #3AAA3A;">τ</span>]]</sup> <sub>[[Special:Contributions/Floydian|<span style="color: #3AAA3A;">¢</span>]]</sub> 11:26, 29 May 2018 (UTC) |
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== Next up: Trilat? == |
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Change to trilateral (interKorean+American) summit a possibility. Otherwise, one would be in the cards, post Singapore, in any case (w rgd formal end to Korean War &c.).[https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/05/27/asia-pacific/politics-diplomacy-asia-pacific/u-s-north-korea-back-track-says-souths-moon-secret-summit-kim/#.Ww4nRHNlB-E]--[[User:Hodgdon's secret garden|Hodgdon's secret garden]] ([[User talk:Hodgdon's secret garden|talk]]) 04:33, 30 May 2018 (UTC) |
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:Yes, I think we should see if a common name for the summit arises, and then use that. It does appear that Moon will attend. Will he be an observer or an equal participant? Only time will tell.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 10:09, 30 May 2018 (UTC) |
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::Maybe we should change it to "Singapore Summit"?--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 08:02, 13 June 2018 (UTC) |
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== Crystal == |
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This is practically a literal lesson in crystalballing. It may not go ahead. Maybe we should stop editing it until it has happened?[[User:Slatersteven|Slatersteven]] ([[User talk:Slatersteven|talk]]) 13:00, 2 June 2018 (UTC) |
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:There's no problem documenting the events that actually happen. The problem is the speculation.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 23:46, 2 June 2018 (UTC) |
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:Agree with Jack Upland. Even if this summit, which South Korean officials say is 99% sure to take place,[https://www.todayonline.com/commentary/trump-kim-summit-it-aint-over-till-fat-lady-sings] doesn't, the on again off again back and forth should pass the so-called [[wp:10 year test]] w rgd notability. (Thus in such a case, I think the best route would then be to retain much of the material in the article under a re-tweaked or else merged elsewhere.)--[[User:Hodgdon's secret garden|Hodgdon's secret garden]] ([[User talk:Hodgdon's secret garden|talk]]) 23:50, 2 June 2018 (UTC) |
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::And we should definitely cut down the speculation. We don't need a large section about the location. This will probably be clear in a couple of days.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 20:59, 3 June 2018 (UTC) |
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: Regarding [[wp:10 year test]] w rgd notability. I believe that this topic could be much more richer with the worldwide point of view. Denuclearization of Korean peninsula it might be the first historic event in the world removing the actual nuclear [[ICBM]] missiles completely not the development stage of [[nuclear weapons]]. It would affect the other countries (China, Russia, USA) who has more powerful nuclear [[ICBM]] [[Ballistic missile]]s. [[User:Goodtiming8871|Goodtiming8871]] ([[User talk:Goodtiming8871|talk]]) 00:21, 4 June 2018 (UTC) |
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::Now, that really is crystal-ball-gazing.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 08:12, 4 June 2018 (UTC) |
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:: Yep, I understand your point, but it's some opinions from the nuclear ICBM military experts. [[User:Goodtiming8871|Goodtiming8871]] ([[User talk:Goodtiming8871|talk]]) 10:09, 4 June 2018 (UTC) |
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==The Letter from [[DPRK]] == |
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I was looking for the public domain picture regarding the article below: example - the picture of USA President Trump with the envelope from [[North Korea]]. </br> |
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Would you be able to guide me the location of the picture in the public domain? |
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"Kim Jong Un sent a letter to Trump. It's huge" <ref> https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/01/us/trump-north-korea-huge-letter-trnd/index.html </ref> [[User:Goodtiming8871|Goodtiming8871]] ([[User talk:Goodtiming8871|talk]]) 01:55, 4 June 2018 (UTC) |
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{{reftalk}} |
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:{{re|Goodtiming8871}} - {{twitter|Scavino45|@Scavino45}} is a White House-issued twitter account... meaning all content from that account is in the Pubic Domain under the US Government. You can [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DepNeUIVMAAgcEp.jpg upload this photo] under {{tl|PD-USGov-POTUS}} on Commons... If you don't want to I can do it. [[User talk:Corkythehornetfan|<span style="font-family: Trebuchet MS; color: #231f20">'''Corky'''</span>]] 01:16, 4 June 2018 (UTC) |
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:: Hi {{re|:Corkythehornetfan}}, Thank you for your kind guidance. [[User:Goodtiming8871|Goodtiming8871]] ([[User talk:Goodtiming8871|talk]]) 01:55, 4 June 2018 (UTC) |
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== [[Shangri-La Hotel Singapore|Shangri-La Hotel]] in Singapore == |
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I think that people would love to see the shape of Shangri-La Hotel or [[Capella Singapore|Capella Hotel]] in Singapore - outside and inside venue, Presidential Suite (Eamples [[USA]] and [[DPRK]] Leaders accommodation) from the public domain. Would anyone possibly find and update it to Trump-Kim summit or in the article of [[Shangri-La Hotel Singapore|Shangri-La Hotel]]? [[User:Goodtiming8871|Goodtiming8871]] ([[User talk:Goodtiming8871|talk]]) 20:02, 5 June 2018 (UTC) |
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==Reactions section== |
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Shouldn't this be in alphabetical order, with countries before supra-national entitites such as the EU? [[User:Mjroots|Mjroots]] ([[User talk:Mjroots|talk]]) 06:43, 12 June 2018 (UTC) |
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:No, it should be removed.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 08:29, 12 June 2018 (UTC) |
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== A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion == |
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion: |
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* [[commons:File:Agreement of the 2018 North Korea–United States summit (cropped).png|Agreement of the 2018 North Korea–United States summit (cropped).png]]<!-- COMMONSBOT: speedy | 2018-06-12T08:52:25.300734 | Agreement of the 2018 North Korea–United States summit (cropped).png --> |
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You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. [[User:Community Tech bot|Community Tech bot]] ([[User talk:Community Tech bot|talk]]) 08:52, 12 June 2018 (UTC) |
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== Reactions: North Korea? == |
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Any info on how North Korean media are presenting this, if they are reporting on this at all? --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]]|[[User talk:Piotrus|<span style="color:#7CFC00;background:#006400;"> reply here</span>]]</sub> 12:36, 12 June 2018 (UTC) |
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:Added in [[2018 North Korea–United States summit# North Korea]] <span style="font-family: serif; letter-spacing: 0.1em">– [[User:Finnusertop|Finnusertop]]</span> ([[User talk:Finnusertop|talk]] ⋅ [[Special:Contributions/Finnusertop|contribs]]) 03:33, 13 June 2018 (UTC) |
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== Dennis Rodman == |
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Why is this under "meeting location" not "pre-summit"? ☆ [[User:Bri|Bri]] ([[User talk:Bri|talk]]) 16:12, 12 June 2018 (UTC) |
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:I think that position was left over from its earlier location. Anyway, it should be moved. —<font face ="Courier New">[[User:Javert2113|Javert2113]] ([[User talk:Javert2113|Let's chat!]])</font> 16:17, 12 June 2018 (UTC) |
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::Hard to decide where to place him, as he was not a participant to the Summit, but he did help in creating relations between Trump and Kim. — [[User:JFG|JFG]] <sup>[[User talk:JFG|talk]]</sup> 17:14, 12 June 2018 (UTC) |
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:::"Background" section?--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 08:00, 13 June 2018 (UTC) |
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::::Yeah, that would work. — [[User:JFG|JFG]] <sup>[[User talk:JFG|talk]]</sup> 15:46, 13 June 2018 (UTC) |
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== Fix grammar request == |
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In Background section, last paragraph, "In January a false missile alert in January alarmed Hawaii.[22]" should be changed to "In January a false missile alert alarmed Hawaii.[22]". [[Special:Contributions/184.162.234.201|184.162.234.201]] ([[User talk:184.162.234.201|talk]]) 04:21, 13 June 2018 (UTC) |
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:Preparations, subsection 2, "It was organised by the invitation Xi. " should be changed to "It was organised by the invitation of Xi." [[Special:Contributions/184.162.234.201|184.162.234.201]] ([[User talk:184.162.234.201|talk]]) 04:23, 13 June 2018 (UTC) |
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::fixed. [[User:KinkyLipids|KinkyLipids]] ([[User talk:KinkyLipids|talk]]) 05:29, 13 June 2018 (UTC) |
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== One-on-one …. == |
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A "one-on-one" meeting? Isn't it "one-to-one" ? The former sounds more like a sex act. [[Special:Contributions/86.153.24.140|86.153.24.140]] ([[User talk:86.153.24.140|talk]]) 15:55, 13 June 2018 (UTC) |
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:I think one-on-one is more technically correct for meetings. One-to-one is more used for exchanges or math. [[User:PackMecEng|PackMecEng]] ([[User talk:PackMecEng|talk]]) 16:51, 13 June 2018 (UTC) |
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:Well, who was on top?--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 09:04, 14 June 2018 (UTC) |
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== Biased AP reference for American Reaction == |
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The AP has a democratic bias. Is this not common knowledge? They just politicized & pseudo-polemicized a peace process. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Yoandri Dominguez Garcia|Yoandri Dominguez Garcia]] ([[User talk:Yoandri Dominguez Garcia#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Yoandri Dominguez Garcia|contribs]]) 07:42, 14 June 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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::you are perhaps talking about North Korea, officially the '''Democratic''' People's Republic of Korea [[User:Rjensen|Rjensen]] ([[User talk:Rjensen|talk]]) 08:09, 14 June 2018 (UTC) |
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::This statement is unsupported and polemical - please cite a source. In point of fact, AP news is an unbiased news reporting syndicate: https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-ratings <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/167.219.88.140|167.219.88.140]] ([[User talk:167.219.88.140#top|talk]]) 13:58, 14 June 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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== |
== IP user's criticism == |
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Hello IP user (130.126.255.xx), </br> |
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Regarding your edit: "19:08, 13 November 2018 130.126.255.248" </br> |
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Please see the updated references below and let us know your opinion about the contents below. </br> |
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The contents below are the summary of the multiple references below. </br> |
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1) US Diplomatic team and the US defense team has a different point of view to the solution for the North Korea Nuclear issue.</br> |
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2) The leader of US Diplomatic team: Mike Pompeo has a bit flexibility to negotiate with DPRK and his team may consider the declaration ending the korean war.</br> |
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3) However, The leader of US defense team: John Bolton has a harder line to talk with North Korea. US defense team do believe that denucleation of DPRK should be quicker and would need concrete steps (or process). |
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[[User:Goodtiming8871|Goodtiming8871]] ([[User talk:Goodtiming8871|talk]]) 22:31, 13 November 2018 (UTC) |
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=== Controversy === |
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On August 29, the Atlantic reported on an interview with [[Chung-in Moon]] who is the special envoy from South Korea. His understanding is that the diplomatic team of Mike Pompeo is having difficulties discussing with the defense team National Security Adviser John Bolton; This divided stance between the US Diplomatic team and the US defense team may have played a significant role in the delay of the signing of the promised peace declaration. <ref name=“tatl”>{{cite web|url= https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/08/north-korea-war-declaration/568603/ |title= Inside the Dispute Derailing Nuclear Talks With North Korea |date= Aug 29, 2018}}</ref> <ref>{{cite web|url= https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/mike-pompeo-faces-a-moment-of-truth-on-north-korea/2018/08/23/16c02230-a713-11e8-97ce-cc9042272f07_story.html?utm_term=.37370de1063e |title= Mike Pompeo faces a moment of truth on North Korea |date= Aug 23, 2018}}</ref> <ref>{{cite web|url= https://www.politico.eu/article/john-bolton-and-mike-pompeo-are-headed-for-a-clash-us-politics-security/ |title= John Bolton and Mike Pompeo are headed for a clash |date= Oct 5, 2018}}</ref> <ref>{{cite web|url= https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/john-bolton-north-korea-has-not-taken-effective-steps-to-denuclearize |title= John Bolton: North Korea has not ‘taken effective steps’ to denuclearize |date= Aug 6, 2018}}</ref> <ref>{{cite web|url= http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2018/08/30/0200000000AEN20180830003700315.html |title= Moon adviser says end-of-war declaration won't lead to pullout of U.S. troops |date= Aug 29, 2018}}</ref> |
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{{reflist-talk}} |
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*I agree with the IP, it is unsourced. [[User:Signedzzz|zzz]] ([[User talk:Signedzzz|talk]]) 18:27, 11 January 2019 (UTC) |
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== Close paraphrasing in "Aftermath" section? == |
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I don't think we should be using the term "Chairman Kim", which appears to have gained currency in recent times. We don't use the term at the [[Kim Jong-un]] article. The North Koreans sometimes use the term, but more often seem to call him "Supreme Leader" or "Respected Comrade". In most cases here, he can be called Kim Jong-un or Kim.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 09:25, 14 June 2018 (UTC) |
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:Agreed. Kim is "Chairman" of more than one instance. Unless his capacity as chairman of those instances is discussed, the title is not relevant and is only confusing. For introductory purposes (supreme) [[leader of North Korea]] is the best description. <span style="font-family: serif; letter-spacing: 0.1em">– [[User:Finnusertop|Finnusertop]]</span> ([[User talk:Finnusertop|talk]] ⋅ [[Special:Contributions/Finnusertop|contribs]]) 09:33, 14 June 2018 (UTC) |
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* '''Keep''' – Kim Jong-un has been addressed as "Chairman Kim" officially in preparations for the summit, during the summit, and after the summit by the U.S. side. An article about the summit should definitely reflect this fact. "Supreme leader" is not an official title, and I don't see any sources claiming that North Koreans call him that way. — [[User:JFG|JFG]] <sup>[[User talk:JFG|talk]]</sup> 10:46, 14 June 2018 (UTC) |
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::So we go with what the US side calls him???--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 10:48, 14 June 2018 (UTC) |
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* "President Trump" appears in the article no fewer than twenty times. —[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] 11:15, 14 June 2018 (UTC) |
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[[MOS:SURNAME]]: After the initial mention of any name, the person should generally be referred to by surname only. I will fix that now. [[User:Signedzzz|zzz]] ([[User talk:Signedzzz|talk]]) 11:18, 14 June 2018 (UTC) |
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Which parts in particular are closely paraphrased, and from where? --[[User:Bangalamania|Bangalamania]] ([[User talk:Bangalamania|talk]]) 01:47, 17 August 2019 (UTC) |
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== Edit Request == |
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: I removed the previous notice as I think it is irrelevant to this section:"Aftermath" [[User:Goodtiming8871|Goodtiming8871]] ([[User talk:Goodtiming8871|talk]]) 20:42, 26 November 2019 (UTC) |
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== Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and Questions about compliance == |
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Suggest to remove "The people in Singapore are divided about the resumption of the Trump–Kim summit; some believe that it is a small but encouraging step towards world peace whilst others are dissatisfied with both leaders." under the "Reactions" section. |
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Can we change the subject from "Questions about compliance" to "Questions about missile development"? |
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As North Korea has already withdrawn from the [[nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty]] (NPT). |
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Ref link Chronology of U.S.-North Korean Nuclear and Missile Diplomacy |
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Rationale: The reactions from other countries/organisations in this section are official lines from their politicians/spokespeople and not their citizens. It also does not make sense to list down every unofficial opinion here since opinions are so diverse. The reactions attributed to Singapore should not be any different from the others. --[[Special:Contributions/219.75.113.186|219.75.113.186]] ([[User talk:219.75.113.186|talk]]) 15:12, 14 June 2018 (UTC) |
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https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/dprkchron |
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[[User:Goodtiming8871|Goodtiming8871]] ([[User talk:Goodtiming8871|talk]]) 20:29, 26 November 2019 (UTC) |
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== A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion == |
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:Removed. I agree that we can't include every vox pop.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 19:38, 14 June 2018 (UTC) |
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: |
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* [[commons:File:DPRK - nuclear 3.jpg|DPRK - nuclear 3.jpg]]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion | 2020-02-28T20:52:09.294827 | DPRK - nuclear 3.jpg --> |
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Participate in the deletion discussion at the [[commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:DPRK - nuclear 3.jpg|nomination page]]. —[[User:Community Tech bot|Community Tech bot]] ([[User talk:Community Tech bot|talk]]) 20:52, 28 February 2020 (UTC) |
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IP user's criticism
[edit]Hello IP user (130.126.255.xx),
Regarding your edit: "19:08, 13 November 2018 130.126.255.248"
Please see the updated references below and let us know your opinion about the contents below.
The contents below are the summary of the multiple references below.
1) US Diplomatic team and the US defense team has a different point of view to the solution for the North Korea Nuclear issue.
2) The leader of US Diplomatic team: Mike Pompeo has a bit flexibility to negotiate with DPRK and his team may consider the declaration ending the korean war.
3) However, The leader of US defense team: John Bolton has a harder line to talk with North Korea. US defense team do believe that denucleation of DPRK should be quicker and would need concrete steps (or process).
Goodtiming8871 (talk) 22:31, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
Controversy
[edit]On August 29, the Atlantic reported on an interview with Chung-in Moon who is the special envoy from South Korea. His understanding is that the diplomatic team of Mike Pompeo is having difficulties discussing with the defense team National Security Adviser John Bolton; This divided stance between the US Diplomatic team and the US defense team may have played a significant role in the delay of the signing of the promised peace declaration. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]
References
- ^ "Inside the Dispute Derailing Nuclear Talks With North Korea". Aug 29, 2018.
- ^ "Mike Pompeo faces a moment of truth on North Korea". Aug 23, 2018.
- ^ "John Bolton and Mike Pompeo are headed for a clash". Oct 5, 2018.
- ^ "John Bolton: North Korea has not 'taken effective steps' to denuclearize". Aug 6, 2018.
- ^ "Moon adviser says end-of-war declaration won't lead to pullout of U.S. troops". Aug 29, 2018.
- I agree with the IP, it is unsourced. zzz (talk) 18:27, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
Close paraphrasing in "Aftermath" section?
[edit]Which parts in particular are closely paraphrased, and from where? --Bangalamania (talk) 01:47, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
- I removed the previous notice as I think it is irrelevant to this section:"Aftermath" Goodtiming8871 (talk) 20:42, 26 November 2019 (UTC)
Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and Questions about compliance
[edit]Can we change the subject from "Questions about compliance" to "Questions about missile development"? As North Korea has already withdrawn from the nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT).
Ref link Chronology of U.S.-North Korean Nuclear and Missile Diplomacy https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/dprkchron Goodtiming8871 (talk) 20:29, 26 November 2019 (UTC)
A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
[edit]The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 20:52, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
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