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== Male bimaturism isn't included ==
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There seems to be no mention of sexual dimorphism in orangutans (Utami ''et al'', 2002). This is an important and interesting part of orangutan reproduction. Some males become flanged as they become adults whilst some males remain unflanged. This has implications, especially with the subject of forced copulation.

Flanged males are preferred by females. Unflanged males are shunned by females and tend to force copulation. Flanged Bornean males are known to force copulation whereas it is rare in Sumatrans (Delgado & van Schaik, 2000).


[[User:Guillaumefeldman|Guillaumefeldman]] ([[User talk:Guillaumefeldman|talk]]) 19:24, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
:This has been included. - [[User:UtherSRG|UtherSRG]] [[User_talk:UtherSRG|(talk)]] 08:06, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

== Orangutang prostitute ==

I just read about this, should it be added to the article? http://www.vice.com/read/yo1-v14n10 It is pretty nauseating, but there is already a section on sexual relations with humans. [[User:FunkMonk|FunkMonk]] ([[User talk:FunkMonk|talk]]) 08:32, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
:That's a humor site, not a serious one. [[User:Dream Focus | '''<span style="color:blue">D</span><span style="color:green">r</span><span style="color:red">e</span><span style="color:orange">a</span><span style="color:purple">m</span> <span style="color:blue">Focus</span>''']] 08:58, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
::Not at all, I first heard about the episode in a Danish documentary about an Orangutang sanctuary (Which can be seen here http://www.dr.dk/Dokumentar/gammel_struktur/tv/DR1/2007/0613144332.htm), and you can see video of the rescue here at 12:45: http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=Qv8NlidN2wg The woman talking is [[Lone Drøscher Nielsen]]. It's hard to find sources in English, but here's one in Danish: http://sondagsavisen.dk/2009/47/mor-for-600-orangutanger.aspx [[Vice (magazine)]] is simply one of the few English-language outlets that has covered it. [[User:FunkMonk|FunkMonk]] ([[User talk:FunkMonk|talk]]) 09:02, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
:::13:07 is when that part of the video shows it. It says "lots of small villages have prostitution in karaoke joints," and that this one had a single orangutan in it. It doesn't say its common everywhere though. [[User:Dream Focus | '''<span style="color:blue">D</span><span style="color:green">r</span><span style="color:red">e</span><span style="color:orange">a</span><span style="color:purple">m</span> <span style="color:blue">Focus</span>''']] 09:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
::::The Danish site I looked at through Google translator, and its just that one orangutan again. You have people caught humping dogs but you don't put it in the dog article. There doesn't seem to be any large trade in orangutan sex slaves. [[User:Dream Focus | '''<span style="color:blue">D</span><span style="color:green">r</span><span style="color:red">e</span><span style="color:orange">a</span><span style="color:purple">m</span> <span style="color:blue">Focus</span>''']] 09:34, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
:::::Well, I didn't want to imply it had happened in anything but that case. But you're right, my complete bafflement made me overlook the quite valid point about the dog. [[User:FunkMonk|FunkMonk]] ([[User talk:FunkMonk|talk]]) 09:45, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

== Type species in taxobox ==

Hi. I'm puzzled by the name "Pongo borneo" in the taxobox: this is a synonym of P. pygmaeus. Shouldn't we use one of the two modern species names? [[User:SP-KP|SP-KP]] ([[User talk:SP-KP|talk]]) 10:12, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

:The type species is fixed when assigned, and is not updated thereafter. If it's a synonym of some other species, then it makes sense to link it in the article to the current name, but it shouldn't be altered to reflect modern taxonomy (ICZN: [http://www.nhm.ac.uk/hosted-sites/iczn/code/index.jsp?article=67&nfv= Article 67.1.2]). Often the type species doesn't even appear to be in the genus it typifies – ''e.g.'' the type species of ''[[Nephrops]]'' is "''Cancer norvegicus''". --[[User:Stemonitis|Stemonitis]] ([[User talk:Stemonitis|talk]]) 18:16, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

OK, thanks. That makes sense, although it throws up two further questions 1. The (original, single species of) Orang-utan was called Simia pygmaeus, named as such by Linnaeus in 1760, then along came Lacepede in 1799 and erected the genus Pongo for it. Why did he rename the species Pongo borneo rather than just using the pre-existing name pygmaeus? 2. How can Cancer norvegicus be the type species of Nephrops? When Nephrops was erected, surely it has to be typified by a species which was in Nephrops? [[User:SP-KP|SP-KP]] ([[User talk:SP-KP|talk]]) 19:16, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

:To your first question, I have no good answer. The [[Principle of Priority]] was only formalised relatively recently, so it may well be that Lacépède simply thought ''P. borneo'' would be a better name for some reason. Linnaeus originally called it "''Homo pygmaeus''"; perhaps Lacépède thought it didn't make sense to call it something equating to "dwarf orang-utan" when it isn't particularly small for an orang-utan. If you can get hold of his original work, it may explain his thinking. Concerning the second question, I think I understand the situation. ''Cancer norvegicus'' '''is''' a species in ''[[Nephrops]]''; "''Cancer norvegicus''" and "''Nephrops norvegicus''" are different names, but attached to the same type, so they must refer to the same taxon. When placed in ''Nephrops'', the valid taxon for that taxon is ''Nephrops norvegicus'', but it was originally described as "''Cancer norvegicus''". When designating a type species, you are ultimately referring to a specimen, often through the existing literature; in this case, the reference is to the species originally described by Linnaeus as "''Cancer norvegicus''", and whatever its type specimen may be (or may turn out to be – the type was only assigned much later in this case). Biological nomenclature is baffling, and the more you learn about it, the more baffling it becomes. Don't worry if it seems incomprehensible; it is! --[[User:Stemonitis|Stemonitis]] ([[User talk:Stemonitis|talk]]) 19:42, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Linnaeus named it Simia satyrus, not Simia pygmaeus. Edwards used the specific epithet pygmaeus.[[User:Atla5Atla5|Atla5Atla5]] ([[User talk:Atla5Atla5|talk]]) 10:47, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

== FIX the Orangutans and Human section already! ==

It's complete vandalism, all this talk of orangutans raping humans has gone on enough. Fix it already! <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:MassiveForehead|MassiveForehead]] ([[User talk:MassiveForehead|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/MassiveForehead|contribs]]) 05:28, 2 March 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:It has sources, there is no doubt this has happened. [[User:Dream Focus | '''<span style="color:blue">D</span><span style="color:green">r</span><span style="color:red">e</span><span style="color:orange">a</span><span style="color:purple">m</span> <span style="color:blue">Focus</span>''']] 07:50, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
::Well, sources are given but whether it happened is another matter. One of the sources (hardly a reliable one) actually says "This [i.e. rape] was almost the fate of Julia Roberts when she made a documentary at Camp Leakey in 1996. One male took a shine to her and grabbed her as she walked along a path. Luckily, a film crew was present, though it took five men to free her from the ape’s grasp."[http://www.salon.com/2001/08/23/primates/singleton/] No evidence that the orangutan was sexually attracted to Julia Roberts is given; it's an assumption made by Carole Jahme, the reporter. [[User:Peter coxhead|Peter coxhead]] ([[User talk:Peter coxhead|talk]]) 14:57, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
:::That is a reliable source. You can't ignore major news sources because you don't like what the reporters say. And I've seen this video clip on YouTube. That is what happened, and Julia Roberts herself said that's what happened. I see one clip which has French spoken after and over the English words. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oV_BC05vkYc&feature=related] Anyway, check around if you want to see it for yourself. [[User:Dream Focus | '''<span style="color:blue">D</span><span style="color:green">r</span><span style="color:red">e</span><span style="color:orange">a</span><span style="color:purple">m</span> <span style="color:blue">Focus</span>''']] 17:37, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
::What is the evidence that the orangutan attempted to "rape" Julia Roberts? That it grabbed hold of her is clear; the rest is interpretation without any evidence that I have seen. [[User:Peter coxhead|Peter coxhead]] ([[User talk:Peter coxhead|talk]]) 18:01, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
:::It says ''Male orangutans have been known to display sexual attraction to human women to the point of rape. The cook of noted primatologist Birutė Galdikas was raped by an orangutan.[24] An orangutan tried to have sex with actress Julia Roberts but was prevented by a film crew.[25]'' See? It tried to have sex with her, she saying that in the documentary, as do various reliable sources. It certainly wasn't consensual. [[User:Dream Focus | '''<span style="color:blue">D</span><span style="color:green">r</span><span style="color:red">e</span><span style="color:orange">a</span><span style="color:purple">m</span> <span style="color:blue">Focus</span>''']] 20:13, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
::::So, the source says "One male took a shine to her and grabbed her as she walked along a path". What's with the "took a shine to her" language? That's pure interpretation. The one seeming fact there is that it "grabbed her as she walked along a path". It didn't rape her. We cannot know its intentions, or its motivations. I suggest that there's far too much [[WP:SYNTHESIS| synthesis]] here. [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 20:59, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
:::::I think the article needs to be reported more neutrally; I see no ''evidence'' in http://www.salon.com/2001/08/23/primates/singleton/ or the video that the orangutan tried to "rape" Julia Roberts, although I do see that this reporter claims that it did. However she also writes "Male orangutans ... have been known to rape the women studying them (Galdikas' cook was raped)." Galdikas was the person studying orangutans, not her cook; the logic of the sentence is faulty. The Wrangham & Peterson (1996) book seems to be a different matter; I'd like to see it though. [[User:Peter coxhead|Peter coxhead]] ([[User talk:Peter coxhead|talk]]) 22:32, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
::::::Many books cover the event. Here are 59 book results from Google book search.[http://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=%22Birut%C4%97+Galdikas%22+%22raped%22&btnG=#hl=en&safe=off&tbm=bks&sclient=psy-ab&q=%22Birut%C4%97+Galdikas%22+%22raped%22+%22orangutan%22&pbx=1&oq=%22Birut%C4%97+Galdikas%22+%22raped%22+%22orangutan%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=87234l88996l0l89200l7l6l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0&gs_l=serp.3...87234l88996l0l89200l7l6l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=ac84f13ab1cb05ce&biw=939&bih=536] Native people warn about this, and a famed researcher studying them had her cook raped by one. [[User:Dream Focus | '''<span style="color:blue">D</span><span style="color:green">r</span><span style="color:red">e</span><span style="color:orange">a</span><span style="color:purple">m</span> <span style="color:blue">Focus</span>''']] 04:14, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
:::::::The great majority of the references you have found with this search do NOT cover the event of Galdikas' cook being raped by an orangutan. They just contain the words you searched for in separate sentences. By the way, I'm not disputing this claim; it's just that I haven't seen the original book. The general principle is that "exceptional claims need exceptional evidence". [[User:Peter coxhead|Peter coxhead]] ([[User talk:Peter coxhead|talk]]) 09:36, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
::::::::''Walking with the Great Apes: Jane Goodall, Dian Fossey, Biruté ... - Page 151'' "Years later a wild adult male orangutan came into her camp and raped a female Indonesian cook." Says that in the summary of the first link. The second link you just click on it and it loads up mentioning that that incident. The third link mentions the incident in the summary that appears. I see two book results which quote what the famed researcher said in her own words about the event. [http://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=%22I+attacked+Gundul+with+all+my+strength%2C+trying%22&btnG=#q=%22I+attacked+Gundul+with+all+my+strength,+trying%22&hl=en&safe=off&tbm=bks&filter=0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=ac84f13ab1cb05ce&biw=939&bih=567] She ignored the locals warning that this sort of thing happened, and then witnessed it first hand herself. [[User:Dream Focus | '''<span style="color:blue">D</span><span style="color:green">r</span><span style="color:red">e</span><span style="color:orange">a</span><span style="color:purple">m</span> <span style="color:blue">Focus</span>''']] 09:45, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
{{outdent}}
I repeat that I'm not disputing the claim and whether it should be mentioned in the article. However, note that the fact that different sources repeat the same original claim doesn't add anything to the evidence. There is ''one'' claim, originating with Galdikas, that her cook was raped, which is repeated elsewhere. It may also be relevant that this appears not to have been a fully wild orangutan but one which was very accustomed to humans. [[User:Peter coxhead|Peter coxhead]] ([[User talk:Peter coxhead|talk]]) 10:59, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Both of you are missing the point: how can wikipedia moderators, be they vandals or long time contributors, simply decide to label an entire species as potential rapists (and go even further to assert some kind of certainty as to their universal attraction to human women) based on the behavior of one individual as reported by one person in a completely non-scientific forum? Even if the story is true and the reporter's wild interpretations are perfectly accurate, it was a freak incident which has never been repeated. The Julia Roberts story was sensationalized and very likely nothing more than it appeared. Captive primates grab at their handlers and tourists all the time, both male and female. Rape only entered the picture because the person being "assaulted" happened to be a major sex symbol.

The second part of this section is a perfect example of the type of garbage that hurts this website and yet is zealously protected and/or argued over by the innumerable groups of idealogical extremists (who somehow seem to make up 99% of the active editors) and are doing their best to tear apart every article that is even remotely controversial. Wikipedia needs less TALK and more ACTION! Begin by SCRAPPING this JUNK.... <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/97.83.30.92|97.83.30.92]] ([[User talk:97.83.30.92|talk]]) 01:30, 29 March 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

To resolve this dispute, I suggest that we mention in the article that the reports of orangutan having sexual interests in humans are only claims. Due to lack of hard evidence, these claims are perhaps hoaxes, such as the Loch Ness Monster. --Futuretrillionaire 22:22, 2 July 2012 (UTC) <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Futuretrillionaire|Futuretrillionaire]] ([[User talk:Futuretrillionaire|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Futuretrillionaire|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Please remove the negatively loaded word 'rape' at least. Animals don't rape, if something like this has ever happened at all. It is like calling a tiger that kills a human a murderer. It is also an insult to anyone who has ever been subject to such crimes. I suggest you follow the example of the dolphin article: [[Dolphin#Reproduction_and_sexuality]][[Special:Contributions/46.162.102.68|46.162.102.68]] ([[User talk:46.162.102.68|talk]]) 15:25, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
:Animals don't rape? Are you serious? Rape is dependent on the victim's perception, not the attacker. [[User:Ian.thomson|Ian.thomson]] ([[User talk:Ian.thomson|talk]]) 15:28, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

:No it is not, a crime requires intent, [[Mens_rea]]. Or maybe you think you can be raped by a pillow as well? Animals do not rape and murder. Please fix this, it is unworthy of a Wikipedia article.[[Special:Contributions/46.162.102.68|46.162.102.68]] ([[User talk:46.162.102.68|talk]]) 15:40, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
::Pillows don't have sex, orangutans do. Orangutans can intend to have sex with someone without their consent. That is rape. Legal floundering based on laws concerning what humans can be charged with does not change that. [[User:Ian.thomson|Ian.thomson]] ([[User talk:Ian.thomson|talk]]) 15:47, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

:::Since you are unable to debate using a civil tone I see no point in continuing this discussion with you. I hope someone else will consider wording this in the same manner as the dolphin article mentioned earlier. [[Special:Contributions/46.162.102.68|46.162.102.68]] ([[User talk:46.162.102.68|talk]]) 16:00, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
::::Pointing out flaws in your argument is not incivility. [[User:Ian.thomson|Ian.thomson]] ([[User talk:Ian.thomson|talk]]) 16:03, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
:::::No we can agree on that much at least.[[Special:Contributions/46.162.102.68|46.162.102.68]] ([[User talk:46.162.102.68|talk]]) 16:06, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
{{outdent|:::::}}The only incivility shown today is the hostile tone in the messages of the anonymous user (46.162.102.68). Please tone it down and definitely don't escalate. In regards to this issue, I have seen literature refer to forced copulation by animals as "rape", so although it is often defined in legal terms, it technically means forced copulation. By that definition, animals do rape (and humans are animals). The wording in the dolphin article is good, but too ambiguous for this article. Being the zoo keeper type myself, I've had many animals "behave sexually towards me", particularly birds. However, none of them forcefully copulated with me—they were all sexual displays. In the cases discussed in this article, a male orangutan forcefully copulates with a human female, despite her protests. In this case, the word "rape" is appropriate. I will rephrase things slightly. Hopefully that will be an acceptable compromise. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.3em; font-family: fantasy, cursive, Serif">'''–&nbsp;[[User:Maky|<font color="darkgreen">Maky</font>]] <sup>«[[User talk:Maky|<font color="olive">&nbsp;talk&nbsp;</font>]]»</sup>'''</span> 20:44, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

:Well, where I am from "Are you serious?" and "Legal floundering" is not considered civil nor constructive debating technique. And I assure you I had no intention of escalating which is why I ended that discussion.
:I think calling animal sexual behaviour rape is unfortunate anthropomorphizing and moralizing over animal (non-human if you prefer) behaviour. Would you say you have been sexually abused/assaulted by your birds. Are humans regularly raped by dogs when they hump against somebody's leg. Animals have no concept of consent as far as we know and they certainly have no understanding of human morals/culture. Also the mention of the Julia Roberts incident is ridiculous (have you seen the video, there is no evidence of sexual intentions) and the reporter is hardly an authority on the subject so I think it should be removed if this is intended to be an encyclopaedia article. [[Special:Contributions/46.162.102.68|46.162.102.68]] ([[User talk:46.162.102.68|talk]]) 15:52, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
::I find your arguments a little bizarre, only because I'm sure you would drop this argument if we applied it to a situation where a human female willingly copulated with her unneutered, willing dog. (That's considered animal abuse.) But morality is a tangential issue here. Maunus has a good point below, and given the better source, I agree that the section could be re-written. Either Maunus can do it, or I'll try to find time over the next few days. (I'm far too busy today.) <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.3em; font-family: fantasy, cursive, Serif">'''–&nbsp;[[User:Maky|<font color="darkgreen">Maky</font>]] <sup>«[[User talk:Maky|<font color="olive">&nbsp;talk&nbsp;</font>]]»</sup>'''</span> 17:24, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

*I think the anecdotes are not likely to be relevant per WP:Weight. If you can show that they figure in scholarly works describing orangutan behavior, I might be convinced otherwise - but I doubt that is possible. I think that the mention is seems likely to simply perpetuate a harmful myth about orangutans, and detract attention to the fact that humans are a much larger threat to Orangutans (also in terms of physical and sexual abuse) than they are to humans. I am in favor of removing the sentences. [[User:Maunus|·ʍaunus]]·[[User talk:Maunus|snunɐw·]] 16:30, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
::Ok, I retract that based on this[http://books.google.com/books?id=BCopQrdR7bQC&pg=PA88&lpg=PA88&dq=Orangutan+sexual+attraction+to+humans&source=bl&ots=JtqU_pwFst&sig=4dd2fOQMgL9rFweY-mG2Z3Ywcxs&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TcVMUIioMYW00AGzqYHgAw&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Orangutan%20sexual%20attraction%20to%20humans&f=false]. It seems it should be in the article, but rewritten to show that it is a persitant myth and that it may be explained by species identity issues in ape raised in captivity.[[User:Maunus|·ʍaunus]]·[[User talk:Maunus|snunɐw·]] 16:37, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
:::FYI, I never saw this material as "perpetuating a harmful myth" or "detracting attention" from the harm humans inflict upon the species. First, forced copulation is seen in nature in a variety of species. I've seen very popular nature documentaries discuss it with numerous species, even noting how sometimes the female is killed by the male's sexual aggression. (One species that comes to mind is elephant seals.) The fact that a close relative of ours can take an interest in us and exhibit that same behavior (seen in the wild) is worthy of mention in an encyclopedia. Otherwise the article spends considerably more time on the species' conservation status and conservation concerns. Please remember that I spend considerable time writing about primates and primate conservation on Wikipedia, so please be a little more considerate before making accusations. I did the GAN review of this article, and rather than failing it, I worked with the author to help improve it considerably. No, it's not perfect, and hence why it is rated as a "good article", not a "featured article". <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.3em; font-family: fantasy, cursive, Serif">'''–&nbsp;[[User:Maky|<font color="darkgreen">Maky</font>]] <sup>«[[User talk:Maky|<font color="olive">&nbsp;talk&nbsp;</font>]]»</sup>'''</span> 17:24, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
::::::I don't think I have been inconsiderate to you - I was talking about the article not about you - I don't care who wrote it or improved it, nor do I expect the article to be flawless. Of course your work is appreciated - stating that it can be improved is not an attack on you or a denial of your capabilities as an editor, scholar or reviewer. Please don't make this a personal issue when it is not. '''I'' do think that stories about great apes raping human women are a harmful myth that perpetuates a stereotypical image of apes. Yes orangutans practice forced copulations - but they do so with other orangutans, and the only semisubstantiated report of it happening with a human was a captive animal.[[User:Maunus|·ʍaunus]]·[[User talk:Maunus|snunɐw·]] 18:09, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

*I hope User:Futuretrillionaire doesn't want to apply the same standards of evidence in human/human rape cases, since apparently he believes video recordings are required. However, descriptions of animal behavior in the wild generally relies on eyewitness reports from reliable trained observers, since not all events can be photographically demonstrated. The article clearly shows that this is such a report, since it does not say that the event has been documented.[[User:Maunus|·ʍaunus]]·[[User talk:Maunus|snunɐw·]] 19:21, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
:Galdikas' report describes an unusual event, so I assume that an increased level of skepticism is necessary when presenting her report. This sentence kinda bugs me: "This orangutan however was raised in captivity and may have suffered from a skewed species identity, and forced copulation is a standard mating strategy for low ranking male orangutans", because it assumes that event actually occurred. In reality we really don't know if it occurred or not. It's possible that Galdikas made it up. I got the sense from reading the paragraph that it was biased towards "actually happening" rather than being neutral (not sure if that actually happened or not). I think the ethological procedures for providing "evidence" is rather a red herring in this case. I just feel the paragraph is a little biased, which is bothering me a little, and that a little skepticism is needed. --[[User:Futuretrillionaire| FutureTrillionaire]] ([[User talk:Futuretrillionaire|talk]]) 19:40, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
:There is no reason to distrust the worlds foremost authority on Orangutan behavior who has nothing to gain by making up the story. That makes no sense. The sentence has to be biased towards the event taking palace because no scholar has expressed any disbelief in her report, but rather several ethologists (Richard Wrangham and Carel van Schaick) have reported it as an event that actually occured. We do not need to second guess the main authorities on great ape behavior.[[User:Maunus|·ʍaunus]]·[[User talk:Maunus|snunɐw·]] 20:05, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

::I concur with Maunus. They're not going to do vaginal swabs or file a police report. It is also well known—by anyone who works with exotic animals—that confused sexual identity and sexual behavior happen. Also, all apes (except gorillas) are highly sexual. I would defer to the authority, who, if anything, would be more likely to cover it up. I consider Galdikas' to be a legit documentation of the event. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.3em; font-family: fantasy, cursive, Serif">'''–&nbsp;[[User:Maky|<font color="darkgreen">Maky</font>]] <sup>«[[User talk:Maky|<font color="olive">&nbsp;talk&nbsp;</font>]]»</sup>'''</span> 07:21, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Too many people commenting here are making their own judgements, which is not appropriate. I'd like to remind everyone that the right questions to ask are:
*Is what is written in the article based on [[WP:RS|reliable sources]]? (The answer is surely "yes".)
*Does what is written give [[WP:UNDUE|undue prominence]] to this topic? (I think that as of now the answer is "no".)
*Does what is written accurately reflect the sources? For those I can check, it does, but there is one issue: the phrase "but undocumented" isn't directly derived from the given source (Wrangham & Dale, 1996); it seems to be an editorial insertion. If it can't be directly sourced, it should be removed. More generally, Wrangham & Dale's account is based on whatever reference they give in note 20 (not visible in Google unfortunately). The reference should really be sourced directly to this account (which is hopefully by Guldikas).
[[User:Peter coxhead|Peter coxhead]] ([[User talk:Peter coxhead|talk]]) 11:16, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

== Spelling ==

The spelling in this article was highly inconsistent between British and American variants where these differ. I initially assumed it should be American (because of "behavior" in a section title) but then found when I started correcting to American spelling that this would involve more changes than the other way (e.g. uses of "centre", "travelling", etc.). So I've corrected to British spelling and added a template to this effect. If this was wrong because of the intentions of the earliest contributors, please feel free to change all the spellings the other way. [[User:Peter coxhead|Peter coxhead]] ([[User talk:Peter coxhead|talk]]) 09:09, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
:The original spelling was British I believe. [[User:Jackhynes|Jack]] ([[User talk:Jackhynes|talk]]) 12:37, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

{{Talk:Orangutan/GA1}}

== Etymology section ==

Shortly after this article was promoted to GA, a very poorly sourced etymology section was restored. After all the work we put into referencing the article for GA, I would appreciate it someone would do their homework and actually provide references and help maintain the quality of the article. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.3em; font-family: fantasy, cursive, Serif">'''–&nbsp;[[User:Maky|<font color="darkgreen">Maky</font>]] <sup>«[[User talk:Maky|<font color="olive">&nbsp;talk&nbsp;</font>]]»</sup>'''</span> 02:41, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
:I agree it isn't particularly well sourced. I readded it because someone asked why the article was a part of wp:etymology - I looked back in the history and realized that it had a pretty big etymology section earlier which was then removed. Not knowing whether this was removed by consensus or just by attrition I put it back in. Remove it if you don't think it fits. [[User:Maunus|·ʍaunus]]·[[User talk:Maunus|snunɐw·]] 03:04, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
::It fits, but I'd appreciate some help sourcing it. Don't get me wrong—I do appreciate your efforts tracking it down in the history and restoring it. The information is good. But given that we just got it promoted to GA, I would have been much more appreciative if you or someone else had cleaned it up and provided better sources. I'd help, but I've spent too much time on this article already, and I need to get back to my other work. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.3em; font-family: fantasy, cursive, Serif">'''–&nbsp;[[User:Maky|<font color="darkgreen">Maky</font>]] <sup>«[[User talk:Maky|<font color="olive">&nbsp;talk&nbsp;</font>]]»</sup>'''</span> 13:21, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
::I found a couple of extra scholarly sources and replaced one low quality link.[[User:Maunus|·ʍaunus]]·[[User talk:Maunus|snunɐw·]] 14:05, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

:Additionally there is a minor typo in the Etymology Section that I am unable to edit. In the third sentence of the second paragraph it reads "fron" when it clearly means "from". <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/163.234.185.201|163.234.185.201]] ([[User talk:163.234.185.201|talk]]) 16:01, 7 August 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Thoughts on Behavior Section ==

{{ WAP assignment | course = Wikipedia:USEP/Courses/Behavioral Ecology (Joan Strassmann) | university = Washington University |term=2012 Fall | project = }}

The article on the Orangutan is not a featured article but is rather classified as a GA-class. It still appears to be complete in terms of what categories of information it has. It includes the etymology of the word Orangutan as well as information on the species’ anatomy and behavior. A section is also included on the interactions of orangutans with humans with a link to another article about “Orangutans in popular culture.” Of particular interest to me is a subsection of behavior titled “reproduction and parenting.” Since many altruistic behaviors occur between parent and child, this section could be expanded to include more than just information about how long the child lives with its mother. There is also a subsection about the social life of the orangutan. The talk section is focused mostly on what needs to be included or taken out rather than what needs to be done in order to get the article to reach feature article status. There is a GA review section that was completed fairly recently in March, 2012. Many of the issues seem to have been fixed since that time however. This makes me wonder what needs to be done in order to get the Orangutan article to the feature status since it is a well-known species. There should be plenty of interest in it. [[User:E.middlebrook|E.middlebrook]] ([[User talk:E.middlebrook|talk]]) 19:45, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

:First of all, thank you for the constructive feedback. The short, blunt answer to your question is that we need more people with the time, resources, and commitment to write high-quality Wikipedia articles to contribute to [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Primates|WikiProject Primates]]. We are just volunteers, and at present, I think there are maybe 2 or 3 semi-regularly active editors in the project... and that means they add content and discuss issues about primate articles maybe once a month. Although featured articles are what all editors should strive for, not everyone has the time, dedication, writing skills, and resource access in order to facilitate this. Furthermore, the featured article candidacy process ([[WP:FAC|FAC]]) is very tedious, demanding, and psychologically draining. FAC is lacking in reviewers (not writers), which makes reviews for FAC (as well as [[WP:GAN|GAN]]--the good article equivalent) take many weeks or months. Since a Wiki user can only nominate one article to FAC at a time, it translates into a very slow process that usually burns people out. (P.S. – This is why I am no longer an Ambassador—I feel Wiki needs more reviewers than writers. More writers can be a good thing, but if they burn out because no one offers feedback or reviews their GA or FA candidates, then they burn out and leave.) Anyway, sorry for the rant—I'm not trying to scare you away from Wikipedia editing. As I said on the [[Ring-tailed lemur#Thoughts on behavior section|Ring-tailed lemur talk page]], I'm more than willing to help with your project. But at the moment, I can't do the research for people. I'm too busy researching and re-writing the article [[Strepsirrhini]] and [[Prosimian]], and I also hope to create an aritcle for "Lemuriformes", which currently points to [[Lemur]]. Basically, I'm stuck cleaning up articles with horribly confusing taxonomy just so I can write consistently on the other primate articles. Fun!! Hopefully one of the other editors that have been monitoring this page can offer some additional research/writing help. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.3em; font-family: fantasy, cursive, Serif">'''–&nbsp;[[User:Maky|<font color="darkgreen">Maky</font>]] <sup>«[[User talk:Maky|<font color="olive">&nbsp;talk&nbsp;</font>]]»</sup>'''</span> 20:32, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

== "Decimate" ==

You might not be inclined to agree, but I think we should stick with the preferred meaning of decimate, i.e. to reduce by a tenth. What humankind is doing to the habitat of Orang utans exceeds that. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/196.207.193.224|196.207.193.224]] ([[User talk:196.207.193.224|talk]]) 10:06, 1 October 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:It probably doesn't matter given the term's colloquial use, but for technical reasons, I agree. I've changed it. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.3em; font-family: fantasy, cursive, Serif">'''–&nbsp;[[User:Maky|<font color="darkgreen">Maky</font>]] <sup>«[[User talk:Maky|<font color="olive">&nbsp;talk&nbsp;</font>]]»</sup>'''</span> 14:10, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

== No mention of P. Rodman in pioneering of orangutan research ==

Although Galdikas was instrumental in early popularization of research on orangutans, P. S. Rodman was actually the first researcher to do systematic research on orangutans. Perhaps a mention of him is in order.

Rodman, P. S. (1973). Population composition and adaptive organisation among orang-utans of the Kutai Reserve. Comparative Ecology and Behaviour of Primates. R. P. Michael J. H. Crook, Editors. London: Academic Press (pp. 171-209) <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/174.118.0.255|174.118.0.255]] ([[User talk:174.118.0.255|talk]]) 06:39, 3 October 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== About the Blood Groups in Orangutans ==

The following paper is referred in the article [[Gorilla]]:

{{Cite journal | last1 = Gamble | first1 = K. C. | last2 = Moyse | first2 = J. A. | last3 = Lovstad | first3 = J. N. | last4 = Ober | first4 = C. B. | last5 = Thompson | first5 = E. E. | title = Blood groups in the Species Survival Plan, European Endangered Species Program, and managed ''in situ'' populations of bonobo (''Pan paniscus''), common chimpanzee (''Pan troglodytes''), gorilla (''Gorilla'' ssp.), and orangutan (''Pongo pygmaeus'' ssp.) | doi = 10.1002/zoo.20348 | journal = Zoo Biology | volume = 30 | issue = 4 | pages = 427–444 | year = 2011 | pmid = 20853409| pmc = | url = http://www.orangutanssp.org/ga_blood_typing.pdf| format = pdf| accessdate = 5 January 2012}}

But some information is inconsistent in the same referred paper, for example: (See tables 1 & 6)

1. For table 1, the total number (N=938) could not be reproduced.

2. For table 6, the genotype "Non-A, non-B" should correspond to the group O, and "A/non-A, non-B" should correspond to the group A, but the phenotypes of such genotypes are all "AB".

What do you think?

HTH & Thanks, [[Special:Contributions/125.33.243.40|125.33.243.40]] ([[User talk:125.33.243.40|talk]]) 20:22, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

:I don't think the information has much meaning for this article. As the paper points out at the beginning, these blood types are similar to ours, but are not the same across species. So their A, B, and O types are not the same as ours, and that could be confusing to the readers. (And in some cultures, like Japanese, public interpretation of the blood types could play into [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20170787 local stereotypes].) What could be added to the article is a short blurb (citing this source) that notes that blood types for captive orangs have been studied to help with managed captive populations in cases where blood transfusions are needed. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.3em; font-family: fantasy, cursive, Serif">'''–&nbsp;[[User:Maky|<font color="darkgreen">Maky</font>]] <sup>«[[User talk:Maky|<font color="olive">&nbsp;talk&nbsp;</font>]]»</sup>'''</span> 15:05, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

== Dodgy English? ==

In the Anatomy and physiology section, shouldn't it read "hip joints" and not "hips joint"? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/90.196.147.47|90.196.147.47]] ([[User talk:90.196.147.47|talk]]) 22:43, 17 March 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Yes. Fixed. [[User:Sminthopsis84|Sminthopsis84]] ([[User talk:Sminthopsis84|talk]]) 03:24, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

== Conservation status ==
Orangutans are said to be close to extinction. Why the article does not have a "Conservation Status"?[[User:Neuras|Neuras]] ([[User talk:Neuras|talk]]) 20:14, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
:It does. It is section 7.[[User talk:Maunus|User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw·]] 20:24, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 28 April 2014 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Orangutan|answered=y}}
<!-- Begin request -->
Under the "Intelligence" subheading there is a sentence that lacks a "y" in the word they. It reads as such "Scientists hope the data they collect will help researchers learn about socialising patterns"
<!-- End request -->
[[Special:Contributions/24.217.216.248|24.217.216.248]] ([[User talk:24.217.216.248|talk]]) 06:00, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

:Sorry, I'm not seeing the problem you state. [[User:Peter coxhead|Peter coxhead]] ([[User talk:Peter coxhead|talk]]) 06:20, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
::No, I can't see it either - and I've gone back through the history to 9 Dec 2013, so the IP isn't seeing an old version, unless it is over 4 months old. - I'll mark as answered - [[User:Arjayay|Arjayay]] ([[User talk:Arjayay|talk]]) 08:17, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

== Intelligent Primates==
Last I saw/read, ''Homo sapiens sapiens'' were also primates. Now, I understand that people may be annoyed with other people that they share a world with, but surely ''Homo sapiens sapiens'' is a somewhat more intelligent (citation needed) than Orangutans? I offer Wikipedia as an example of how much more complex ''Homo sapiens''' tools can be. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/124.149.35.160|124.149.35.160]] ([[User talk:124.149.35.160|talk]]) 10:39, 22 May 2014 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
: Are you referring to this statement: "Orangutans are among the most intelligent primates"? If so, it is not saying that orangutans are the most intelligent primates, just one of several highly intelligent primates. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.3em; font-family: fantasy, cursive, Serif">'''–&nbsp;[[User:Maky|<font color="darkgreen">Maky</font>]] <sup>«[[User talk:Maky|<font color="olive">&nbsp;talk&nbsp;</font>]]»</sup>'''</span> 15:46, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

: I too thought ''Orangutans are among the most intelligent primates'' was a bit of a non-statement. We primates are some of the more intelligent animals. I think that gorillas, bonobos (who certainly are a lot nicer than a lot of humans), chimps (in spite of their tendency to act a bit too much like us, particularly when they are enraged), most human species, baboons, and even some monkeys--even the damn'd annoying [[macaques]] (if you don't agree, then you just haven't spent enough time with the vicious, sneaky, poop-throwing, face-eating bastards)--are considered to be pretty clever. So what does it mean to be 'among the most intelligent primates'? This statement lacks precision or insight. If you could do some meaningful quantification, e.g. compare the smartest orangutan with the smartest bonobo with the smartest lowland gorilla, or some meaningful sample of them competing at the same task, then it would be interesting.
* I have no idea what to make of the fact that one of the most-shrill and aggressive orangutans ever seen has emerged as the US Republican party presidential nominee... <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/75.73.1.89|75.73.1.89]] ([[User talk:75.73.1.89#top|talk]]) 15:32, 4 October 2016 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Semi-protected edit request on 5 November 2014 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Orangutan|answered=yes}}
<!-- Begin request -->

<!-- End request -->
Please move these lines moved to "Social life"; ''Orangutans communicate with various sounds. Male will make long calls, both to attract females and advertise themselves to other males.[27] Both sexes will try to intimidate conspecifics with a series of low guttural noises known collectively as the "rolling call".[28] When annoyed, an orangutan will suck in air through pursed lips, making a kissing sound that is hence known as the "kiss squeak". Infants make soft hoots when distressed. Orangutans are also known to blow raspberries.[28]'' <small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/155.138.235.134|155.138.235.134]] ([[User talk:155.138.235.134|talk]]) 00:28, 7 November 2014 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:I don't understand what you mean by "move these lines moved to 'Social life'". Please clarify! [[User:Peter coxhead|Peter coxhead]] ([[User talk:Peter coxhead|talk]]) 11:46, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
::They are from the opening paragraphs of "Ecology and behaviour" and should be moved to subsection "Social life". [[Special:Contributions/155.138.246.163|155.138.246.163]] ([[User talk:155.138.246.163|talk]]) 16:09, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
:::Ah, right. The opening paragraphs give a general overview; it seems to me that this information can go there just as well as in the subsection. I'd like some other views if it's to be moved. [[User:Peter coxhead|Peter coxhead]] ([[User talk:Peter coxhead|talk]]) 20:28, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
::::I agree with leaving it as it is. The Social life section is more about social organisation. The sentences in question could easily be part of a "communication" sub-section.__[[User:DrChrissy|DrChrissy]] ([[User talk:DrChrissy|talk]]) 16:46, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=]] '''Not done:''' please establish a [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for this alteration before using the {{tlx|edit protected}} template.<!-- Template:EP -->

== Orangutan spelling ==

[[Special:Contributions/68.51.181.252|68.51.181.252]] ([[User talk:68.51.181.252|talk]]) 02:39, 20 March 2015 (UTC) Orangutan ought to be spelled Orang Utan since the Malay word Orang translated to English means person, man or human. The word Utan translated to English means forest or woods. Thus Orang Utan means a “man from the forest”, or “forest man”.
:That may be the etymology of the name, but "Orangutan" is how the English sources spell it. We follow our sources. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.3em; font-family: fantasy, cursive, Serif">'''–&nbsp;[[User:Maky|<font color="darkgreen">Maky</font>]] <sup>«[[User talk:Maky|<font color="olive">&nbsp;talk&nbsp;</font>]]»</sup>'''</span> 02:51, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

== Extinct species omission ==
The previously described extinct sub species P. pygmaeous weidenreichi, is no longer a representative of P. pygmaeous, but is now considered a separate species within the genus Pongo, as P. weidenreichi due to the species larger size, distribution and temporal range (early to mid Pleistocene) (Harrison et al. "Fossil Pongo from the Early Pleistocene Gigantopithecus fauna of Chongzuo, Guangxi, southern China". Quaternary International 354 (2014) 59-67). <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:74.141.58.117|74.141.58.117]] ([[User talk:74.141.58.117|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/74.141.58.117|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
:The extinct species are discussed at [[ponginae]]. Please [[WP:BOLD|feel free]] to update that article. - [[User:UtherSRG|UtherSRG]] [[User_talk:UtherSRG|(talk)]] 14:43, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

==Updating this article by reference to Wich's work==

I just had a look at the section on language to see whether recent work at [[Liverpool John Moores University]] by Serge Wich suggesting that human speech descended from orang utan alarm calls is in this article, but it is not. This article could be updated with a reference to this work, which received coverage on a [[Today]] programme in early winter 2017. [[Special:Contributions/81.140.1.129|81.140.1.129]] ([[User talk:81.140.1.129|talk]]) 22:13, 12 February 2017 (UTC)


== External links modified ==
== US spelling ==


I didn't know that Indonesians use US spelling when writing in English (see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_spelling_differences#/media/File:Defence_Defense_Labour_Labor_British_American_spelling_by_country.svg here]). So I converted the article to American English. [[User:LittleJerry|LittleJerry]] ([[User talk:LittleJerry|talk]]) 14:28, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,


:In general we maintain the existing spelling variant (see [[MOS:RETAIN]]) and do not change it without broad consensus that it should be changed, usually when the subject matter has strong [[MOS:TIES|national ties]]. You can argue that this should be changed and reach consensus, but you'd need to do that first to actually make the edit. [[User:Volteer1|Volteer1]] ([[User talk:Volteer1|talk]]) 14:45, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
I have just modified one external link on [[Orangutan]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=783781403 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120510084118/http://www.gibboncenter.org/publications/MolecularPhylogeneticsIsrafil_etal_2011_MPE.pdf to http://www.gibboncenter.org/publications/MolecularPhylogeneticsIsrafil_etal_2011_MPE.pdf


::There is a note at the top of the article saying "This article is written in British English..." [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 01:53, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
:::Yes, and I asked for it to be [[Template talk:Editnotices/Page/Orangutan|removed]]. [[User:LittleJerry|LittleJerry]] ([[User talk:LittleJerry|talk]]) 02:16, 8 March 2021 (UTC)


{{u|Volteer1}} and {{u|HiLo48}} how do I get consensus if people don't respond? [[User:LittleJerry|LittleJerry]] ([[User talk:LittleJerry|talk]]) 20:24, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
{{sourcecheck|checked=false|needhelp=}}
:That's a very good question, I don't know. Regarding the spelling, even though they use American spelling in Indonesia, it seems they use British Spelling in Malaysia, so the [[MOS:TIES]] argument seems weak if they're native to both countries. I'm happy to just [[MOS:RETAIN]] the current spelling, but to be perfectly honest I really don't care one way or the other, I don't think it matters. [[User:Volteer1|Volteer1]] ([[User talk:Volteer1|talk]]) 23:31, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
::{{u|Elli}}? [[User:LittleJerry|LittleJerry]] ([[User talk:LittleJerry|talk]]) 00:37, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
:::{{u|LittleJerry}} yes? [[User:Elli|Elli]] ([[User_talk:Elli|talk]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/Elli|contribs]]) 00:38, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
::::It seems the others don't care if I change the spelling. Can you remove the tag? [[User:LittleJerry|LittleJerry]] ([[User talk:LittleJerry|talk]]) 02:30, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
:{{replyto|LittleJerry}} No, Indonesia is [[WP:STRONGTIES|not a primarily English-speaking country]] so what form of English they use there is irrelevant. I assume you got this idea because of an edit by a highly suspicious editor/IP like [[Special:Contributions/UsernameIntentionallyBlank|UsernameIntentionallyBlank]]; please do not follow their example. '''[[User:Graham87|Graham]]'''[[User talk:Graham87|<span style="color: green;">87</span>]] 13:05, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
]]


== Mainland size? ==
Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 16:29, 4 June 2017 (UTC)


Orangutans used to live on mainland Asia. Did they used to be much bigger on the mainland, and evolved to be smaller on the Indonesian islands due to insular dwarfism? Is there any fossil evidence to support this? [[User:Gorilla beringei|Gorilla beringei]] ([[User talk:Gorilla beringei|talk]]) 03:16, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
== Pongo tapanuliensis ==


:It's believed that the extinct species [[Gigantopithecus]] may have been related to the Orangutan, but there have been very few remains discovered so it's very difficult to know with any sort of certainty. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Patr2016|Patr2016]] ([[User talk:Patr2016#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Patr2016|contribs]]) 18:28, 4 November 2021 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
Seems we've got a new species on our hands (for now anyhow):
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/nov/02/new-species-of-orangutan-discovered-in-northern-sumatra-tapanuli-pongo-tapanuliensis?CMP=fb_gu [[User:BronxZooFan|BronxZooFan]] ([[User talk:BronxZooFan|talk]]) 17:09, 2 November 2017 (UTC)


== Dubious, unreferenced, claim for 2 yrs of maternal care ==
So apparently:
:However, nuclear DNA sequence comparisons reported in 2017 suggest that Tapanuli orangutans diverged from Sumatran orangutans about 3.4 million years ago.[2][22] Tapanuli orangutans diverged from Bornean orangutans, much later, about 670,000 years ago.[2]
and also
:Based on genome sequencing, the Tapanuli orangutan separated from other orangutans about 700,000 years ago, and the two other species diverged about 400,000 years ago
Hmmm [[Special:Contributions/82.36.145.224|82.36.145.224]] ([[User talk:82.36.145.224|talk]]) 05:35, 6 November 2017 (UTC)


"Orangutans stay with their mothers for eight or nine years, longer than almost any mammal except humans." https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/17/science/orangutan-foraging.html However, opening in the wikipedia article suggests 2 yrs only. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2607:FEA8:33E0:2803:396C:4D9B:377:8946|2607:FEA8:33E0:2803:396C:4D9B:377:8946]] ([[User talk:2607:FEA8:33E0:2803:396C:4D9B:377:8946#top|talk]]) 11:02, 19 December 2021 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
== Classification history ==


:Orangutans do remain with their mothers from six to nine years, depending on the species. See: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/229696588_The_behavioral_ecology_and_conservation_of_the_orangutan_Pongo_pygmaeus_A_tale_of_two_islands#:~:text=Orangutans%20are%20the%20only%20great,and%20P.p.%20pygmaeus%20in%20Borneo.
See [[Talk:Tapanuli orangutan#Not the first new great ape since the bonobo?]] for some additional discussion of classification history. [[User:WolfmanSF|WolfmanSF]] ([[User talk:WolfmanSF|talk]]) 02:58, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
:and
:https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0003347220301676 [[User:Lilithaf|Lilithaf]] ([[User talk:Lilithaf|talk]]) 03:54, 13 August 2023 (UTC)


== Semi-protected edit request on 13 April 2018 ==
== Semi-protected edit request on 25 July 2022 ==


{{edit semi-protected|Orangutan|answered=yes}}
{{edit semi-protected|Orangutan|answered=yes}}
{please I have a fact to add} [[Special:Contributions/50.207.255.26|50.207.255.26]] ([[User talk:50.207.255.26|talk]]) 16:30, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
[[User:Vammar|Vammar]] ([[User talk:Vammar|talk]]) 20:02, 25 July 2022 (UTC)


There’s an incidence of “tke” that should be “take”
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:ESp --> It is not possible for individual users to be granted permission to edit a semi-protected article. You can do one of the following:
:*You will be able to edit this article without restriction four days after account registration if you make at least 10 constructive edits to other articles.
:*You can request the article be unprotected at [[WP:RFPP|this page]]. To do this, you need to provide a valid rationale that refutes the original reason for protection.
:*You can provide a '''specific''' request to edit the article in "change X to Y" format on this talk page and an editor who is not blocked from editing the article will determine if the requested edit is appropriate.


:{{done}}<!-- Template:ESp --> - thanks for pointing it out. [[User:PrincessPersnickety|<span style="color: purple">'''Princess Persnickety'''</span>]] [[User talk:PrincessPersnickety|<span style="color: darkblue">(talk)</span>]] 20:39, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
:Thanks, &#8209;&#8209;'''[[User talk:ElHef|<font color="red">El</font><font color="orange">Hef</font>]]'''&nbsp;<small>([[Special:Contributions/ElHef|<font color="black">Meep?</font>]])</small> 02:40, 14 April 2018 (UTC)


== Semi-protected edit request on 27 June 2023 ==
== Including the Catarrhini parvorder ==


{{Edit semi-protected|Orangutan|answered=yes}}
I was wondering whether the [[parvorder]] [[Catarrhini]] should be included with the taxonomy information in the sidebar template? That page even explicitly mentions Orangutans as members of the taxon. However, I'm new here and don't want to step on any toes by just adding it myself. Any input would be greatly appreciated. [[User:TheDealio|TheDealio]] ([[User talk:TheDealio|talk]]) 23:43, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
add [[Special:Contributions/144.160.228.35|144.160.228.35]] ([[User talk:144.160.228.35|talk]]) 19:07, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
:[[File:Red question icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a [[WP:EDITXY|"change X to Y" format]] and provide a [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable source]] if appropriate.<!-- Template:ESp --> [[User:UtherSRG|UtherSRG]] [[User_talk:UtherSRG|(talk)]] 19:08, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
:add Conservation status to the right info box [[Special:Contributions/144.160.228.35|144.160.228.35]] ([[User talk:144.160.228.35|talk]]) 19:09, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
::Conservation status is not appropriate here. This article is about the genus, which includes three living species. To see the conservation status of those species, you can go to the appropriate species articles. - [[User:UtherSRG|UtherSRG]] [[User_talk:UtherSRG|(talk)]] 19:13, 27 June 2023 (UTC)


== Semi-protected edit request on 13 August 2023 ==
== status system ==


{{edit semi-protected|answered=yes}}
{{Edit semi-protected|Orangutan|answered=yes}}
After the sentence "In December 2014, a court in Argentina ruled that an orangutan named Sandra at the [[Buenos Aires Zoo]] must be moved to a sanctuary in Brazil to provide her "partial or controlled freedom"."
just put the status system CRitcally endangered, as all orangutans species are CR. [[User:49.148.235.199|<span style="font-family:middle class script;color:#9e0000;text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">Oppa Justine!</span>]] [[User talk:49.148.235.199|<span style="font-family: middle class script;color:#17063d;">Talk</span>]] 9 July 2018 (UTC)
:[[File:Yes check.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Done'''<!-- Template:ESp --> The CR status, along with references from [[IUCN]], have been added to the taxonomic infobox. '''<span style="font-size:75%;border:2px solid red;border-radius:50px;font-color:#00008b">[[User:Spintendo|<span style="color:#00008b;font-variant:small-caps">&nbsp;spintendo&nbsp;</span>]]</span>''' 05:55, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
::Thanks :). [[User:49.148.235.199|<span style="font-family:middle class script;color:#9e0000;text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">Oppa Justine!</span>]] [[User talk:49.148.235.199|<span style="font-family: middle class script;color:#17063d;">Talk</span>]] 9 July 2018 (UTC)


Insert:
== Orangutang ==


Sandra has since been relocated to [[The Center for Great Apes]] in the [[United States]], as it is the only accredited orangutan [[sanctuary]] in the [[American Continent]].<ref>https://centerforgreatapes.org/orangutan/sandra/</ref> [[User:Lilithaf|Lilithaf]] ([[User talk:Lilithaf|talk]]) 03:50, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
Orangutang is a dinosaur. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Jumpy72red|Jumpy72red]] ([[User talk:Jumpy72red#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Jumpy72red|contribs]]) 11:00, 19 September 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
{{talk reflist}}
:{{done}}<!-- Template:ESp --> [[User:UtherSRG|UtherSRG]] [[User_talk:UtherSRG|(talk)]] 19:38, 13 August 2023 (UTC)


== Semi-protected edit request on 12 February 2019 ==
== Semi-protected edit request on 3 May 2024 ==
{{Edit semi-protected|Orangutan|answered=yes}}


A wounded orangutan seen using plant as medicine. Can a registered user please add this to the section on 'Tool use and culture'. See https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-68942123 and
{{edit semi-protected|Orangutan|answered=no}}
https://www.theguardian.com/science/article/2024/may/02/orangutan-seen-treating-wound-with-medicinal-herb-in-first-for-wild-animals-max-planck-institute-sumatra and https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/05/240502113715.htm [[Special:Contributions/2A00:23C2:8B08:E501:D48:7973:CD14:6A7A|2A00:23C2:8B08:E501:D48:7973:CD14:6A7A]] ([[User talk:2A00:23C2:8B08:E501:D48:7973:CD14:6A7A|talk]]) 12:18, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
i am a reseacher for Orangutans and know very much [[Special:Contributions/98.102.142.254|98.102.142.254]] ([[User talk:98.102.142.254|talk]]) 14:55, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
:[[File:Red question icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a [[WP:EDITXY|"change X to Y" format]] and provide a [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable source]] if appropriate.<!-- Template:ESp --> In addition, this information was already added to [[Sumatran orangutan]]. [[User:UtherSRG|UtherSRG]] [[User_talk:UtherSRG|(talk)]] 12:48, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
: It has been added by Drbogdan, so thanks for the suggestion. I saw that story too. Pretty fascinating. -- [[User:Valjean|Valjean]] ([[User talk:Valjean|talk]]) ('''''[[Help:Notifications|<span style="color:#0bf">PING me</span>]]''''') 13:31, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 20:32, 16 October 2024

Featured articleOrangutan is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on August 19, 2021.
In the news Article milestones
DateProcessResult
May 31, 2010Good article nomineeNot listed
April 3, 2012Good article nomineeListed
May 28, 2020Peer reviewReviewed
July 30, 2020Featured article candidatePromoted
In the news A news item involving this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "In the news" column on January 27, 2011.
Current status: Featured article

US spelling

[edit]

I didn't know that Indonesians use US spelling when writing in English (see here). So I converted the article to American English. LittleJerry (talk) 14:28, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

In general we maintain the existing spelling variant (see MOS:RETAIN) and do not change it without broad consensus that it should be changed, usually when the subject matter has strong national ties. You can argue that this should be changed and reach consensus, but you'd need to do that first to actually make the edit. Volteer1 (talk) 14:45, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
There is a note at the top of the article saying "This article is written in British English..." HiLo48 (talk) 01:53, 7 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, and I asked for it to be removed. LittleJerry (talk) 02:16, 8 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Volteer1 and HiLo48 how do I get consensus if people don't respond? LittleJerry (talk) 20:24, 15 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That's a very good question, I don't know. Regarding the spelling, even though they use American spelling in Indonesia, it seems they use British Spelling in Malaysia, so the MOS:TIES argument seems weak if they're native to both countries. I'm happy to just MOS:RETAIN the current spelling, but to be perfectly honest I really don't care one way or the other, I don't think it matters. Volteer1 (talk) 23:31, 15 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Elli? LittleJerry (talk) 00:37, 18 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
LittleJerry yes? Elli (talk | contribs) 00:38, 18 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It seems the others don't care if I change the spelling. Can you remove the tag? LittleJerry (talk) 02:30, 18 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@LittleJerry: No, Indonesia is not a primarily English-speaking country so what form of English they use there is irrelevant. I assume you got this idea because of an edit by a highly suspicious editor/IP like UsernameIntentionallyBlank; please do not follow their example. Graham87 13:05, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
]]

Mainland size?

[edit]

Orangutans used to live on mainland Asia. Did they used to be much bigger on the mainland, and evolved to be smaller on the Indonesian islands due to insular dwarfism? Is there any fossil evidence to support this? Gorilla beringei (talk) 03:16, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It's believed that the extinct species Gigantopithecus may have been related to the Orangutan, but there have been very few remains discovered so it's very difficult to know with any sort of certainty. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Patr2016 (talkcontribs) 18:28, 4 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Dubious, unreferenced, claim for 2 yrs of maternal care

[edit]

"Orangutans stay with their mothers for eight or nine years, longer than almost any mammal except humans." https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/17/science/orangutan-foraging.html However, opening in the wikipedia article suggests 2 yrs only. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FEA8:33E0:2803:396C:4D9B:377:8946 (talk) 11:02, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Orangutans do remain with their mothers from six to nine years, depending on the species. See: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/229696588_The_behavioral_ecology_and_conservation_of_the_orangutan_Pongo_pygmaeus_A_tale_of_two_islands#:~:text=Orangutans%20are%20the%20only%20great,and%20P.p.%20pygmaeus%20in%20Borneo.
and
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0003347220301676 Lilithaf (talk) 03:54, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 25 July 2022

[edit]
Vammar (talk) 20:02, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There’s an incidence of “tke” that should be “take”

 Done - thanks for pointing it out. Princess Persnickety (talk) 20:39, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 27 June 2023

[edit]

add 144.160.228.35 (talk) 19:07, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. UtherSRG (talk) 19:08, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
add Conservation status to the right info box 144.160.228.35 (talk) 19:09, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Conservation status is not appropriate here. This article is about the genus, which includes three living species. To see the conservation status of those species, you can go to the appropriate species articles. - UtherSRG (talk) 19:13, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 13 August 2023

[edit]

After the sentence "In December 2014, a court in Argentina ruled that an orangutan named Sandra at the Buenos Aires Zoo must be moved to a sanctuary in Brazil to provide her "partial or controlled freedom"."

Insert:

Sandra has since been relocated to The Center for Great Apes in the United States, as it is the only accredited orangutan sanctuary in the American Continent.[1] Lilithaf (talk) 03:50, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

 Done UtherSRG (talk) 19:38, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 3 May 2024

[edit]

A wounded orangutan seen using plant as medicine. Can a registered user please add this to the section on 'Tool use and culture'. See https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-68942123 and https://www.theguardian.com/science/article/2024/may/02/orangutan-seen-treating-wound-with-medicinal-herb-in-first-for-wild-animals-max-planck-institute-sumatra and https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/05/240502113715.htm 2A00:23C2:8B08:E501:D48:7973:CD14:6A7A (talk) 12:18, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. In addition, this information was already added to Sumatran orangutan. UtherSRG (talk) 12:48, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It has been added by Drbogdan, so thanks for the suggestion. I saw that story too. Pretty fascinating. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 13:31, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]