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ADDED A BUDDHIST SECTION

ADDED THE ROHINGYA GENOCIDE

Unreliable sources and opinion pieces

@Iskandar323:

One is an article by 'moderndiplomacy.eu'. You fail to show how this is an unreliable source (which you claim). I have checked and It's not listed as such. The unreliablebility, hence, is an opnion. Poorly explained.

The other an opinion piece by a respected academic in the field, not some pundit with an opinion. https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/china-islam-mental-illness-cured-181127135358356.html

Simply stating "opinion piece" and "unreliable" and leaving it at that qualifies as "poorly explained. Kleuske (talk) 10:08, 9 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Modern diplomacy has been discussed a few times at WP:RSN, and the discussion has never ruled in its favour as far as I can tell. Of the key points noted is that it is not a news source, and does not claim to be one, but is an advocacy platform that publishes opinions, often fairly dubious ones. So that leaves us with opinion pieces from two authors, neither of whom are obviously by subject matter experts either generally, by any specific metric, or specifically with respect to this subject - not that I can see. Iskandar323 (talk) 13:40, 9 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Recent POV edit

user 220.255.242.109 added new content that lack neutrality [1], with strong POV language, some examples of his POV new content:

Indian-origin religions, such as Hinduism,[40] Buddhism,[41] Jainism[42] and Sikhism.[43] In this aspect, Indian religions are very different from the foreign-origin proselytising religions, specially Islam and Christianity which have core tenents (like Dawah and Christian missions)[44] requiring followers to persecute[45] and actively convert[46][47][48][49] others including with the use of violent jihad,[50][51][52][53][54][55] Islamic invasions, Christian colonisations,[56][57][58] and inquisitions to earn spiritual merit. Both Islam and Christianity have very long history of violent forced conversions[59][60] and genocide[61] of people belonging to the Indian-origin religions. In some regions, almost all of a colony's population was forcibly turned away from its traditional belief systems and forcibly turned towards the Christian faith, which colonizers used as a justification for their extermination of adherents of other faiths, their enslavement of natives, and their exploitation of lands and seas.[61][62][63][64][65]

Considering Christianity and Islam as foreign religions in India, is a Hindu nationalist claim. The history of Christianity in India goes back to the early times of Christianity, and the history of Islam in India goes back 1,400 years, and both Indian Muslims and Christians are native to India. Considering their faiths as foreign religions is a Hindu nationalist claim. Also the claims that both Islam and Christianity have a "core tenents that requiring it's followers to persecute and commit genocide" is POV. I do not deny here that throughout history there have been acts of violence and persecution by Christian or Islamic authorities (or any of them in general) against Hindus, but the wording of the above sentence and the recently added paragraphs are not neutral. 2.55.19.137 (talk) 12:45, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, you're right. I was getting confused. This is absolutely POV nonsense and doesn't belong in the article. Thanks and apologies, Dāsānudāsa (talk) 12:51, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. 2.55.19.137 (talk) 12:54, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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-{| class="messagebox standard-talk" style="text-align:center;"
-| width="48px" | [[File:Evolution-tasks2.png|35px|Articles for deletion]] || This article was nominated for [[Wikipedia:Deletion policy|deletion]] {{#if:28 September 2006|on 28 September 2006|recently}}. The result of [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/{{{page|Forced_conversion}}}|the discussion]] was {{{result|'''keep'''}}}.
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-== External links modified ==
-Hello fellow Wikipedians,
-I have just modified one external link on [[Forced conversion]]. Please take a moment to review [[special:diff/816612134|my edit]]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:
-*Added {{tlx|dead link}} tag to http://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca:8080/RIR_RDI/RIR_RDI.aspx?id=454343&l=e
-*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140221063358/http://pakobserver.net/detailnews.asp?id=151043 to http://pakobserver.net/detailnews.asp?id=151043
-When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
-{{sourcecheck|checked=false|needhelp=}}
-Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 13:49, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
+== ADDED A BUDDHIST SECTION ==
-Whenever there have been conflicts, there’s no doubt that forced conversions have occurred. However the number of forced conversions in Iberian colonies at the beginning of European colonization would’ve have been limited to the native population within and nearby the boundaries of the established colonies. Particularly since most of the warriors that defeated the native empires comprised primarily of other indigenous nations so conversion would not have been something that took place overnight.
-In the subsequent decades and centuries Old World diseases wiped out a large portion of the indigenous population, including allies, which allowed Westernized biracials, who have outnumbered those of mostly European ancestry early on in the colonization period, to thrive at their expense given that they were less susceptible and vulnerable to those diseases, eventually gaining the ascendancy and gradually absorbed, forcefully or voluntarily, the remaining indigenous population spread over a vast area.  Therefore forced conversions would have been restricted to the first few years after the defeat of the indigenous empires. Conversion to Christianity by other indigenous populations all over the region would’ve happened across many decades and centuries that in the latter years of colonization involved more of an assimilation process of the dominant mestizo group than warfare.  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/136.186.14.201|136.186.14.201]] ([[User talk:136.186.14.201#top|talk]]) 06:42, 4 April 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
+ADDED  THE ROHINGYA GENOCIDE
-== Edits of Swingoswingo ==
+== Unreliable sources and opinion pieces ==
-[[User:Swingoswingo]], [[User:XLPeeker99p9]], [[User:Oskimua]], [[Special:Contributions/182.58.57.247]] and [[User:Janosik-Ruzalka]] are all banned Sockpuppets who were involved in disruptive and dishonest editing. The editor was a self-declared non-conformist for which he was banned. See [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Swingoswingo&diff=prev&oldid=815245104 the editor’s comment]. The editor is [[WP:NOTHERE|clearly not here to contribute constructively]]. His comment proves he is not eligible to edit Islamic history articles. [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=History_of_slavery_in_the_Muslim_world&diff=821506791&oldid=821504605 In this edit], for example, XLPeeker99p9 wrote ''About the Mughal empire, W.H. Moreland observed, "it became a fashion to raid a village or group of villages without any obvious justification, and carry off the inhabitants as slaves."'' But W.H. Moreland in his book, p. 92 actually said {{tq | Capture was recognised by both Hindu and Moslem law, and in India this recognition led to serious abuses, for it became the fashion to raid a village or group of villages without any obvious justification, and carry off the inhabitants as slaves.}} In page 91, Moreland said {{tq | Slavery must be accepted as a Hindu institution}}. Clearly, XLPeeker99p9 grossly misrepresented the source.
+{{yo|Iskandar323 }}
-In this Forced conversion article too, the user Swingoswingo made some dishonest edits. They started a new section "India" and started adding false claims. The user wrote ''In a Mughal-Sikh war in 1715, many Sikhs were beheaded and about 780 Sikh prisoners of war were pressurised to convert to Islam'' and added an unreliable and fringe source '''The Khalsa Generals''', p.12. But the claim was not present on page 12 even in that source [https://archive.org/stream/TheKhalsaGenerals/TheKhalsaGenerals_djvu.txt as evident here]. Page 19-20 seem to discuss some event of persecution. According to this source, the clash was between shiks and the Governor of Jammu. It didn't say it was Mughal. Again, the user wrote ''On their refusal, all were ordered to be executed. Every day, 100 Sikhs were murdered in public'' and provided again a propagandist & unreliable source [https://books.google.com/books?id=DQeKTUXphPMC&pg=PA89 Glimpses of Sikhism]. But even there, there is hardly a mention of forced conversion. Again, to give a political conflict a religious color is misrepresentation. Such content are welcome if it comes from constructive and non-biased editors. But if a seriously biased editor like Swingoswingo makes such content (especially when he rejects all the academic & traditional sources as evident in his remark), it is not possible to justify how much true info it contains, and how much false it spreads, and how much misinterpretation it contains. Also note that the banned user rarely uses online sources; and many of the sources used by Swingoswingo are all self-published, biased, and propagandist sources. -[[User:AsceticRose|<b style="color: dimgray;">Ascetic</b>]][[User talk: AsceticRose|<b style="color: orangered;">Rosé</b>]] <small> 02:17, 8 March 2018 (UTC)</small><br />
-::Maybe [[Persecution of Hindus]] kind of material doesn't need to be brought here and maybe small summaries of Swing could be written to keep it [[WP:DUE]]. I removed your content merging from [[Ghar Wapsi]], which is just a conversion program and there is no conviction or consensus that conversions are forced. [[Special:Contributions/182.70.69.246|182.70.69.246]] ([[User talk:182.70.69.246|talk]]) 04:18, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
-::One or two poor quality sources and one faulty page number don't justify blanking all contents. [[User:A7howto|A7howto]] ([[User talk:A7howto|talk]]) 13:06, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
-:::AsceticRose, I am not involved in that SPI that you are citing as justification for your content merging from [[Ghar Wapsi]] which is just a conversion program. See my above comment. I have no opinion on the edits of above user. [[Special:Contributions/182.70.69.246|182.70.69.246]] ([[User talk:182.70.69.246|talk]]) 04:39, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
+One is an article by 'moderndiplomacy.eu'. You fail to show how this is an unreliable source (which you claim). I have checked and It's not listed as such. The unreliablebility, hence, is an opnion. Poorly explained.
-*Above IP is clearly not Swingoswingo, though the above account maybe his. Finally if you have problems with the edits you need to discuss here instead of restoring content about [[Ghar Wapsi]] which doesn't involve any forced conversion. [[User:Capitals00|Capitals00]] ([[User talk:Capitals00|talk]]) 04:48, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
-:Thanks. I am not Swingoswingo and [[User:AsceticRose|AsceticRose]] needs to show where I added his content. [[Special:Contributions/182.70.69.246|182.70.69.246]] ([[User talk:182.70.69.246|talk]]) 04:51, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
-::[[User:Capitals00|Capitals00]], I see you are working as an accomplice to Swingoswingo. If Ghar wapsi is a problem, why did you restore Swingoswingo's edit, especially when you already have participated in the talk-page? Please explain. -[[User:AsceticRose|<b style="color: dimgray;">Ascetic</b>]][[User talk: AsceticRose|<b style="color: orangered;">Rosé</b>]] <small> 05:02, 9 March 2018 (UTC)</small><br />
-:::No I am not.. Ghar Wapsi is a problem but rest of the content was also verifiable. I was about to add some more modern sources but with your revert I will have to wait for 24 hours before touching that particular content again. If you want to remove specific sentences you can let me know here but they seem to be having significance in this subject of [[Forced conversion]], and article is relatively small, so why remove? [[User:Capitals00|Capitals00]] ([[User talk:Capitals00|talk]]) 05:16, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
-::::You clearly restored Swingoswingo's edits with your reverts. I've already explained above what was the problem with his edits. Most of his sources are unverifiable, are self-published, and promotional in nature, as I see. And it was his habit to add biased content; he often misrepresented sources. If claims come from scholarly, academic sources with the option of verifiability, that's always welcome. -[[User:AsceticRose|<b style="color: dimgray;">Ascetic</b>]][[User talk: AsceticRose|<b style="color: orangered;">Rosé</b>]] <small> 05:27, 9 March 2018 (UTC)</small><br />
-::::[[User:Capitals00|Capitals00]], I already pointed out some of the problems in my first post of this thread. Please read that. And note that fringe, self-published, and promotional sources will not suffice for crucial claims. Again, scholarly, academic sources with the option of verifiability are always welcome. -[[User:AsceticRose|<b style="color: dimgray;">Ascetic</b>]][[User talk: AsceticRose|<b style="color: orangered;">Rosé</b>]] <small> 05:36, 9 March 2018 (UTC)</small><br />
-::::Apart from the above, there are many claims without any reliable sources. See this {{tq |In an invasion of the Kashmir valley (1015), Mahmud of Ghazni converted many Hindus to Islam. In his later campaigns, in Mathura, Baran and Kanauj, again, many conversions took place. Those soldiers who surrendered to him were converted to Islam. In Bulandshahr alone 10,000 persons were forced to convert including the king. According to Nizamuddin Ahmad, he spread Islam in Punjab by "both the consent of the people and the influence of force."}} Again, {{tq |Aurangzeb often employed all means available to encourage conversions to Islam.}} Also see that when there are sources, many of the sources are self-published like Canadian Sikh Study & Teaching Society, Sikh History Research Department. And almost all the sources are unverifiable. How will a neutral reader know that these are true, especial when they come from biased editor? And sources should not be misrepresented. -[[User:AsceticRose|<b style="color: dimgray;">Ascetic</b>]][[User talk: AsceticRose|<b style="color: orangered;">Rosé</b>]] <small> 06:09, 9 March 2018 (UTC)</small><br />
-:::::Just added a number of more sources to most of these statements. I couldn't find any of these information to be incorrect or non-existing. Mentions of Kashmir Valley, Mathura, are sourced to K.S. Lal, who was a renowned historian, and if you can find rebuttal of those information then only I will consider removal of it. Though it missed mention of Tipu Sultan, and it is necessary to mention him before talking about modern period, thus I have mentioned Sultan. [[User:Capitals00|Capitals00]] ([[User talk:Capitals00|talk]]) 04:56, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
+The other an opinion piece by a respected academic in the field, not some pundit with an opinion.
-::::::Capitals, you have not provided urls (except in Tipu Sultan), so we are unable to verify the claims. Your asking that “if you can find rebuttal of those information” is invalid here because it is ridiculous to think the sources will say “no, this has not happened”. Rather, we have to see if reliable sources support those claims. And the burden is on you to prove, as you have added them.
+https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/china-islam-mental-illness-cured-181127135358356.html
-::::::The section at its current state demands a POV or a Disputed tag, I believe. -[[User:AsceticRose|<b style="color: dimgray;">Ascetic</b>]][[User talk: AsceticRose|<b style="color: orangered;">Rosé</b>]] <small> 17:08, 12 March 2018 (UTC)</small><br />
+Simply stating "opinion piece" and "unreliable" and leaving it at that qualifies as "poorly explained. [[User:Kleuske|Kleuske]] ([[User talk:Kleuske|talk]]) 10:08, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
-==Hinduism==
-What is Soul harvesting? That article does not exist; mention of which seems to be attributed to a [[WP:RS|non-reliable]] blog source. [[User:El_C|El_C]] 01:59, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
+:Modern diplomacy has been discussed a few times at [[WP:RSN]], and the discussion has never ruled in its favour as far as I can tell. Of the key points noted is that it is not a news source, and does not claim to be one, but is an advocacy platform that publishes opinions, often fairly dubious ones. So that leaves us with opinion pieces from two authors, neither of whom are obviously by subject matter experts either generally, by any specific metric, or specifically with respect to this subject - not that I can see. [[User:Iskandar323|Iskandar323]] ([[User talk:Iskandar323|talk]]) 13:40, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
-:Plenty of material and videos available on Soul Harvesting - conversion of Hindus to Christians in India by missionaries. Well known term used by Christian organizations.
+== Recent POV edit ==
-:https://www.harvestindia.org/ <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/67.84.189.212|67.84.189.212]] ([[User talk:67.84.189.212#top|talk]]) 02:02, 1 September 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
+user 220.255.242.109 added new content that lack neutrality [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Forced_conversion&diff=1206702615&oldid=1200653947], with strong POV language, some examples of his POV new content:
+{{blockquote| Indian-origin religions, such as Hinduism,[40] Buddhism,[41] Jainism[42] and Sikhism.[43] In this aspect, Indian religions are very different from the foreign-origin proselytising religions, specially Islam and Christianity which have core tenents (like Dawah and Christian missions)[44] requiring followers to persecute[45] and actively convert[46][47][48][49] others including with the use of violent jihad,[50][51][52][53][54][55] Islamic invasions, Christian colonisations,[56][57][58] and inquisitions to earn spiritual merit. Both Islam and Christianity have very long history of violent forced conversions[59][60] and genocide[61] of people belonging to the Indian-origin religions. In some regions, almost all of a colony's population was forcibly turned away from its traditional belief systems and forcibly turned towards the Christian faith, which colonizers used as a justification for their extermination of adherents of other faiths, their enslavement of natives, and their exploitation of lands and seas.[61][62][63][64][65]}}
-::Please review our guide to [[WP:RS|reliable sources]], which your source seems to fail, still. The article ''Soul Harvesting'' does not exist on Wikipedia, still. Thanks. [[User:El_C|El_C]] 02:13, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
+Considering Christianity and Islam as foreign religions in India, is a Hindu nationalist claim. The history of Christianity in India goes back to the early times of Christianity, and the history of Islam in India goes back 1,400 years, and both Indian Muslims and Christians are native to India. Considering their faiths as foreign religions is a Hindu nationalist claim. Also the claims that both Islam and Christianity have a "core tenents that requiring it's followers to persecute and commit genocide" is POV.
-:::Your issue is with the phrase "soul harvesting". Well. Did you do any research or looked up the phrase? I am guessing not. Clearly you have no idea about the conversion practices of Christian missionaries of South Asia. One of the link is from Youtube other is from SoulHarvest.org. SoulHarvest.org is avery infamous Christian conversion organization. One Youtube video has been quoted by 64...., if you research there are several other similar videos. These are not fake videos. 3rd Link is just an analysis of "Soul Harvest" and techniques used by "Soul Vultures" (term missionaries use for themselves). I am suggesting you reduce your level of ignorance on the sub-topic.  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/67.84.189.212|67.84.189.212]] ([[User talk:67.84.189.212#top|talk]]) 23:40, 2 September 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
+I do not deny here that throughout history there have been acts of violence and persecution by Christian or Islamic authorities (or any of them in general) against Hindus, but the wording of the above sentence and the recently added paragraphs are not neutral. [[Special:Contributions/2.55.19.137|2.55.19.137]] ([[User talk:2.55.19.137|talk]]) 12:45, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
-::::Sorry, I'm not inclined to do your work for you. [[User:El_C|El_C]] 17:31, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
+:Sorry, you're right. I was getting confused. This is absolutely POV nonsense and doesn't belong in the article. Thanks and apologies, [[User:Dāsānudāsa|Dāsānudāsa]] ([[User talk:Dāsānudāsa|talk]]) 12:51, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
+::Thank you. [[Special:Contributions/2.55.19.137|2.55.19.137]] ([[User talk:2.55.19.137|talk]]) 12:54, 13 February 2024 (UTC)