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== "[[:Football Team (NFL Team)]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==
==Based in Ashburn, Virginia==
[[File:Information.svg|30px]]
The redirect <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Football_Team_(NFL_Team)&redirect=no Football Team (NFL Team)]</span> has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|redirects for discussion]] to determine whether its use and function meets the [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect guidelines]]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 January 24#Football Team (NFL Team)}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Hey man im josh|Hey man im josh]] ([[User talk:Hey man im josh|talk]]) 19:25, 24 January 2024 (UTC)


== Why were Walter Wetzel and Two Guns White Calf omitted? ==
The Washington Redskins are headquartered in Ashburn, VA. I'm going to change to box at the bottom (similar to what the New York Jets have).


Why is there no mention of the instigator of the original logo, Walter Wetzel, from the Blackfeet Nation?
== "Recentism" and the reporting of a significant event in the opening section ==


https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/dec/07/a-native-american-designed-washingtons-logo-now-his-family-want-it-back
{{Ping|Sabbatino}}, and certainly others:


And no mention either of the person who was the inspiration for the illustration.
If a famous member of the team or organization died in an accident, would the reporting of that event in the opening section be called "recentism"?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Two_Guns_White_Calf
The Washington Post, among other news organizations, has reported that the name of the team will certainly change, the major sponsors and the other NFL team owners now opposing its continuation.


Seems wikipedia wants to completely erase Native Americans' connections to the franchise. [[User:Hayden41|Hayden41]] ([[User talk:Hayden41|talk]]) 11:29, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
"[[Recentism]] is a phenomenon on Wikipedia where an article has an inflated or imbalanced focus on recent events." This clearly applies to the content of the article as a whole.


:Hi {{ping|Hayden41}}, feel free to add material if you think it is appropriate. That's what is great about Wikipedia; [[WP:BOLD|anyone can edit]]. [[User:Meamemg|meamemg]] ([[User talk:Meamemg|talk]]) 14:03, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
Failing to give a recent event it due weight is certainly imbalance.
--[[User:WriterArtistDC|WriterArtistDC]] ([[User talk:WriterArtistDC|talk]]) 13:17, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
::I'm afraid the page is protected and cannot be edited, at least I have no such privileges. [[User:Hayden41|Hayden41]] ([[User talk:Hayden41|talk]]) 16:13, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Hayden41|Hayden41]] A mention of Mr Wetzel was added to the section "Redskins name and logo controversy" on May 16, apparently as a result of Senator Daines' testimony on the subject at a Senate hearing. I have added the link to John Two Guns White Calf and added an extra sentence based on the Guardian link you provided. Thanks for the suggestion. [[User:Rbrwr|rbrwr]][[User talk:Rbrwr|<sup>&plusmn;</sup>]] 20:51, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
::::Thank you very much! [[User:Hayden41|Hayden41]] ([[User talk:Hayden41|talk]]) 05:20, 7 July 2024 (UTC)


== Semi-protected edit request on 25 June 2024 ==
::'''Agree'''[[User:WriterArtistDC|.]] I can see no way that a one sentence, fully soured, addition to an article of this size and longevity would fit any of the listed [[Wikipedia:Recentism]] criteria nor the unlisted, but used in some cases, criteria. Based on the subject matter's history, it seems to pass the [[WP:10 year test]]. Similar text was also an addition to the [[Washington_Redskins#Name_and_logo_controversy|existing section]] covering the issue. No editors have claimed "Recentism" there, or at the [[Washington Redskins name controversy]] article on similar editing.


{{Edit semi-protected|Washington Commanders|answered=yes}}
::At most, the editor [[User_talk:Sabbatino|Sabbatino]] should have used the [[Wikipedia:Recentism#The_Recentism_tag|Recentism tag (<nowiki>{{Recentism}}</nowiki>)]] template rather than removing a good-faith edit. Discussing it first here would have also been a preferred option. {{resize|80%| – {{key press|{{font color |black|#defaf8|░▒▓ [[Special:Contributions/72.234.220.38|№∶]][[Special:Contributions/72.234.220.38|72.234.220.38]] ([[User talk:72.234.220.38|talk]]) 05:34, 6 July 2020 (UTC) ▓▒░}}}}}}
atmospher = atmosphere [[Special:Contributions/2603:8000:D300:3650:2810:CA2F:BB22:D291|2603:8000:D300:3650:2810:CA2F:BB22:D291]] ([[User talk:2603:8000:D300:3650:2810:CA2F:BB22:D291|talk]]) 06:49, 25 June 2024 (UTC)


:Done. [[User:Rbrwr|rbrwr]][[User talk:Rbrwr|<sup>&plusmn;</sup>]] 07:26, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Since the reversion of my contribution occurred on a holiday weekend, I will give this attempt to avoid edit warring a little more time, but if there is no more discussion I plan to restore the content, now reported by many reliable sources as a major change in the history of the team.--[[User:WriterArtistDC|WriterArtistDC]] ([[User talk:WriterArtistDC|talk]]) 13:06, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
*I have to agree that we should mention, briefly, that the team is reviewing the name in the lead. But keep it short and simple in the lead, with more detail in the body. '''<span style="border: 1px #8C001A solid;background:#8C001A">[[User talk:Calidum|<span style="color: #FFFDD0;">Calidum</span>]]</span>''' 14:19, 6 July 2020 (UTC)


== Mark Rypien Ring of Fame ==
*I agree with both of Calidum's points. The lede is a summary and therefore should not contain too much detail. Also, words like "now," "currently," etc. should be avoided per [[WP:CURRENTLY]]. Wikipedia isn't a news source and an article should not be "reporting" on events. See also [[WP:NOTNEWS]]. [[User:1995hoo|1995hoo]] ([[User talk:1995hoo|talk]]) 14:26, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
::<span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(180deg);bottom:.10em;">[[File:Arrows down animated.gif|15px]]</span>Ditto<span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(180deg);bottom:.10em;">[[File:Arrows down animated.gif|15px]]</span> Lede = ''SSS''; [[Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section#Length|short]], [[Wikipedia:Summary style|simple]], [[Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section#Citations|sourced]] (as it was in this case, but also keeping in mind [[WP:CURRENTLY]], which was not). {{resize|80%| – {{key press|{{font color |black|#defaf8|░▒▓ [[Special:Contributions/72.234.220.38|№∶]][[Special:Contributions/72.234.220.38|72.234.220.38]] ([[User talk:72.234.220.38|talk]]) 18:38, 6 July 2020 (UTC) ▓▒░}}}}}}
::The reports on the supposed name change today are currently in the lead, though I at least tweaked it to say "reported" as opposed to anything the team has formally announced. Ideally, I wouldn't have these reports in the lead if the team hasn't publicly confirmed it.—[[User:Bagumba|Bagumba]] ([[User talk:Bagumba|talk]]) 11:39, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
*Now that the team has put out an official release stating they are "retiring" the name and logo, what do we do with this page? Does the retirement take effect immediately (and we should temporarily move this page to something like "Washington DC NFL team" until they announce the new name)? Or do we just keep it as is and move the page title when the new name comes out? <span class="nowrap"><span style="color:blue">Canuck</span><small><sup><span style="color:green">89</span> [[User talk:Canuckian89|(Speak with me)]]</sup></small> <small>13:41, July 13, 2020 (UTC)</small></span>
*:The relevant policy is [[WP:NAMECHANGES]]. Still, the team hasn't announced a new name, and it's hard to imagine sources converging on a new common name in the interim.—[[User:Bagumba|Bagumba]] ([[User talk:Bagumba|talk]]) 13:59, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
:::The problem here is that some sources already weren't using the name "Redskins" for other reasons having nothing to do with whether it was the actual name, which of course it clearly was (and still is). No doubt some media sources will jump on the bandwagon now. I'd suggest the best policy is what I say below: Look to the team's own communication on the issue, which is pretty darn clear. [[User:1995hoo|1995hoo]] ([[User talk:1995hoo|talk]]) 14:08, 13 July 2020 (UTC)


Quarterback Mark Rypien was inducted into the franchise Ring of Fame in 2014
== Name Change: "Will" versus "Officially retired" ==
https://www.commanders.com/photos/mark-rypien-ring-of-fame-induction-14036593#41ba76fc-babf-4bc5-9a60-aff8be5df2f2 [[Special:Contributions/68.131.65.35|68.131.65.35]] ([[User talk:68.131.65.35|talk]]) 02:45, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

:{{done}} ~ [[User:Dissident93|<b style="color: #660000;">''Dissident93''</b>]] <sup>([[User talk:Dissident93|<b style="color: #D18719;">''talk''</b>]])</sup> 03:30, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
Since we're having a ton of back-and-forth editing, I think we should just keep the name and debate here instead.

I personally vote '''against''' the name change because the source itself says "will" which means it's about to change. All other news articles may be reporting that it is retired, but it seems it is not... yet. Thoughts? '''''<font face="Times New"><span style="text-shadow:#666666 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">[[User:Srsrox|<big><font color="#000080">srsrox</font></big>]] [[User talk:Srsrox|<sup><font color="#000000">BlahBlahBlah...]]</font></sup></span></font>''''' 13:42, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

:There is no debate. The team's press release is clear: They are still named the Washington Redskins and will remain such until they finish the process and announce the new name. Here's the text of their release, with the paragraph breaks omitted for ease of copying here because I don't know how to create a "block quote" on a talk page: "On July 3rd, we announced the commencement of a thorough review of the team's name. That review has begun in earnest. As part of this process, we want to keep our sponsors, fans and community apprised of our thinking as we go forward. '''Today, we are announcing we will be retiring the Redskins name and logo upon completion of this review.''' Dan Snyder and Coach Rivera are working closely to develop a new name and design approach that will enhance the standing of our proud, tradition rich franchise and inspire our sponsors, fans and community for the next 100 years." (Source: https://www.redskins.com/news/washington-redskins-retiring-name-logo-following-review ) That's it. The boldfaced text is clear. Wikipedia "consensus" cannot change this. The article is to remain "Washington Redskins" until the team itself announces what the new name is. Also, let's stop using "officially." People on Wikipedia like to throw around the stupid word "official" and "officially" as though it somehow increases credibility. This is a fine example of where overly-zealous editors want to use that word in a demonstrably incorrect way. [[User:1995hoo|1995hoo]] ([[User talk:1995hoo|talk]]) 13:49, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
::I figured it'd be better to have a clear posting about this, thanks. (By the way, some news sites are saying "official". That isn't my word.) I agree because official source trumps the new sites. '''''<font face="Times New"><span style="text-shadow:#666666 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">[[User:Srsrox|<big><font color="#000080">srsrox</font></big>]] [[User talk:Srsrox|<sup><font color="#000000">BlahBlahBlah...]]</font></sup></span></font>''''' 13:50, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
:::The article really just plain needs to be locked down for the time being because this is going to be impossible to control. [[User:1995hoo|1995hoo]] ([[User talk:1995hoo|talk]]) 13:53, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
::::I agree. By the way, I wanted to post a source so you know where editors are getting the "officially retired" wording: https://nypost.com/2020/07/13/washington-redskins-officially-retire-name-logo/ '''''<font face="Times New"><span style="text-shadow:#666666 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">[[User:Srsrox|<big><font color="#000080">srsrox</font></big>]] [[User talk:Srsrox|<sup><font color="#000000">BlahBlahBlah...]]</font></sup></span></font>''''' 13:54, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
:Yes, agreed that it should remain with the Redskins name per the press release. It's unfortunate that many news sources are reporting it as a case of it happening with immediate effect. [[User:Only|only]] ([[User talk:Only#top|talk]]) 13:57, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
'''Oppose''' move per reasons above. The team itself is the most authoritative source and their press release on Twitter says they will retire "Redskins" once they pick a new name. So the title should change from "Redskins" to the new name once it is announced, rather than go to a generic "Washington NFL team" placeholder. <span style="font-family: Trebuchet MS;">[[User:Frank Anchor|<span style="color: #FF2400;">Frank Anchor</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Frank Anchor|<span style="color: #000080;">Talk</span>]]</sup></span> 14:09, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
:This isn't a requested move. (If this ''was'' an RM, I'd agree with you.) '''[[User:Old Naval Rooftops|<span style="color:#002244">O.N.R.</span>]]'''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Old Naval Rooftops|<span style="color:#002244">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 14:18, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
Are you sure that "upon completion of review" means what you think it does? Maybe it means that their review is officially complete, so the name is officially retired. [[User:Tom Danson|Tom Danson]] ([[User talk:Tom Danson|talk]]) 14:25, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
:The statement also says that the review they announced on July 3 "has begun." So the "has begun" suggests it's on-going and that this is merely an update on an aspect determined during the review rather than the conclusion of the review. The review is about the team identity (including determining a new name), not merely about whether or not to keep the name "Redskins." [[User:Only|only]] ([[User talk:Only#top|talk]]) 14:29, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
::I think the key words are "will be retiring." "Will be," written in the future tense. I don't see how anyone can claim that verb form somehow connotes that the change has already occurred. [[User:1995hoo|1995hoo]] ([[User talk:1995hoo|talk]]) 14:47, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

:::::Many articles are saying they have officially retired their name and logo. Seems like Wikipedia is behind. Shouldn't we make the accurate current changes. I'll put in citations. [[User:Samurai Kung fu Cowboy|Samurai Kung fu Cowboy]] ([[User talk:Samurai Kung fu Cowboy|talk]]) 16:09, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
::::::Unfortunately, those other sources are wrong. The press release clearly says they'll be using the name until the end of the review process. Wikipedia isn't behind; it's going with the correct information. [[User:Only|only]] ([[User talk:Only#top|talk]]) 16:13, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
FWIW, the ESPN website has officially stopped using the name and logo and has begun just using 'Washington'. As a Wikipedian, I '''Support''' the move to a new article, even if it is only to move again after the new team name and mascot/logo/colors are revealed. [[User:Ryecatcher773|Ryecatcher773]] ([[User talk:Ryecatcher773|talk]]) 23:45, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
:The team is still the Redskins even if ESPN stops referring to them as such. We'll keep it as Redskins until the team stops calling themselves the Redskins. [[User:Only|only]] ([[User talk:Only#top|talk]]) 23:59, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
::Moving it now only means we have to move it again once the new name is revealed (supposedly in the next two weeks). ~ [[User:Dissident93|<b style="color: #660000;">''Dissident93''</b>]] <sup>([[User talk:Dissident93|<b style="color: #D18719;">''talk''</b>]])</sup> 09:24, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
:::As a practical matter, it's rather inaccurate to claim the name "Washington Redskins" is inappropriate here on the basis of media sources not using that name, as it's well-known that various media sources already refused to use it. I don't recall anyone refusing to use "Washington Bullets" after Abe Pollin announced his intention to change that team's name, for example, even though it was quite some time before they rolled out "Wizards" as the replacement. The Redskins situation is a little bit odd due to some people objecting to the current name for various reasons. I think this is an excellent example of a situation where Wikipedia's elevation of verifiability over accuracy simply doesn't apply, because in this case the team's own press release is sufficient for both verification and accuracy. The team determines the name, not the media, and in any event it's inappropriate to make ESPN the arbiter of these things as though their position somehow controls over everyone else's. [[User:1995hoo|1995hoo]] ([[User talk:1995hoo|talk]]) 12:53, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
:::: '''Support''' Here's my two cents: it seems obvious by now that multiple, reputable news sources have stopped using the name "Washington Redskins", and are now simply referring to the team as the "Washington" NFL team (here are the reputable sources I mentioned: [https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/washington-football NBCSports.com/Washington]<br />[https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2020/07/21/washington-nfl-team-julie-donaldson-larry-michael-radio-booth/ ''USAToday''.com] [https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29509016/julie-donaldson-oversee-broadcasts-nfl-washington-team ESPN.com] [https://www.nfl.com/news/washington-hires-cmo-to-oversee-team-s-name-change NFL.com]).With that in mind, I suggest that all other editors who have so far commented vote as to whether the title of the article should be changed to simply "Washington NFL team", at least until the team unveils its new nickname and logo, whenever that may be. Personally, I vote in favor of changing the article title to "Washington NFL team", but I am willing to listen and discuss in hopes of reaching a [[WP:CONSENSUS]] here, seeing as how I cannot unilaterally move the article title myself. [[User:Charlesaaronthompson|Charlesaaronthompson]] ([[User talk:Charlesaaronthompson|talk]]) 22:32, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
:::::I still say we wait, at least up until it gets closer to Week 1 (certainly the team will have at least come up with a placeholder name by then). If we move it to a generic "Washington (NFL franchise)" then we might have to move it again just days later. This is already going to be pretty messy as we have to change several related templates and wikilinks too. ~ [[User:Dissident93|<b style="color: #660000;">''Dissident93''</b>]] <sup>([[User talk:Dissident93|<b style="color: #D18719;">''talk''</b>]])</sup> 09:48, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
::::: '''Oppose''' until the team itself announces a new name, for the reasons already stated. This is a situation where it doesn’t matter that some media organizations say "Washington NFL team" or the like—it’s indisputable that the team itself is still named the Redskins and will remain so until such time as they adopt a new name. It’s also indisputable that some reputable media outlets, or personnel within media outlets, have refused to say "Redskins" for several years now—for example, here in the DC area, the late Jim Vance, anchor on NBC-4, stopped using it on the air in 2013 (and he had been a huge Redskin fan for years, wore team logo paraphernalia, etc.). But nobody could seriously contend that meant the name wasn’t "Redskins." The fact that more of them are doing it now after the team said there ''will'' be a new name ''in the future'' doesn’t change things at all. If anything, it might merit a one-sentence mention in the article, something along the lines of "Despite the future tense used in the team's announcement, many media sources immediately stopped using the name 'Redskins.'" That would be accurate, it would be relatively non-controversial, and it would address the very good logistical point Dissident93 makes above. [[User:1995hoo|1995hoo]] ([[User talk:1995hoo|talk]]) 11:48, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

== Phrasing for lead sentence re: review ==

Trying to find the best way to phrase the sentence in the lead about the review to emphasize that the review is still on-going. Current phrasing is: ''After conducting a review of the name,[8][9] on July 13, 2020, the team announced they will retire the "Redskins" name.''

This phrasing makes it sound like the review is over. The press release from the team (https://www.redskins.com/news/washington-redskins-retiring-name-logo-following-review) states that the review is on-going. It says the "review has begun" and that the name will be retired "upon completion of this review."

I think a better phrasing is something like ''On July 13, 2020, the team announced they will retire the "Redskins" name upon the completion of a review of the team's name and identity.''

Thoughts on the best approach? [[User:Only|only]] ([[User talk:Only#top|talk]]) 14:10, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
:I just made a tweak to the lead because I caught that too. See [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Washington_Redskins&type=revision&diff=967489219&oldid=967488064]. '''<span style="border: 1px #8C001A solid;background:#8C001A">[[User:Calidum|<span style="color: #FFFDD0;">Calidum</span>]]</span>''' 15:00, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
::I think that your change covers it well. Thanks! [[User:Only|only]] ([[User talk:Only#top|talk]]) 15:03, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
:::I made a further change to cut down on the prose, we also don't need any exact dates because that isn't important in the longterm (can you name the exact date when renamed from the Braves to Redskins or just the year?) Once the new name is announced the section will be re-written anyway. ~ [[User:Dissident93|<b style="color: #660000;">''Dissident93''</b>]] <sup>([[User talk:Dissident93|<b style="color: #D18719;">''talk''</b>]])</sup> 18:07, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
::::July 5, 1933, but that's not the point. '''[[User:Old Naval Rooftops|<span style="color:#002244">O.N.R.</span>]]'''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Old Naval Rooftops|<span style="color:#002244">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 18:23, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
:::::{{u|Old Naval Rooftops}}, I'd honestly be shocked if you didn't just look that up. But yeah, just writing "on this day the team did this, on this day the team followed up" is just bad [[WP:RECENTISM]] writing in the style of [[WP:PROSELINE]] and should be avoided. We should be writing for a historical perspective, in which exact dates aren't that notable (in 95% of cases anyway and especially in the lead, which should be summarized per [[WP:LEAD]]). ~ [[User:Dissident93|<b style="color: #660000;">''Dissident93''</b>]] <sup>([[User talk:Dissident93|<b style="color: #D18719;">''talk''</b>]])</sup> 18:48, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

== Will the history be that of the ‘Redskins’? ==

As of writing, this team is still the ‘Redskins’. This is a question about the future. When a new name is announced — just to be specific let’s call it the Omegas — will the history be rewritten? ¿That is, will wording change as follows?
* “All of the Redskins' league titles were attained during two 10-year spans.” → “All of the Omegas' league titles were attained during two 10-year spans.”
* “The Redskins finished the 1984 season with an 11–5 record” → “The Omegas finished the 1984 season with an 11–5 record”.
My preference is, in general, not to rewrite history: good and bad, it is what it is. But for certain a decision will be needed. Please express a preference. [[User:JDAWiseman|JDAWiseman]] ([[User talk:JDAWiseman|talk]]) 20:05, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

:Glancing at other teams with histories like this, I see a variety of approaches. [[Oklahoma City Thunder]] mostly splits its Seattle history to another article; in the lead it's basically set up as "In Seattle... X was achieved" and "In Oklahoma City... Y was achieved." Other articles refer to the team as "The franchise" when referring to the collective history (i.e. achievements across its whole history). In [[New Orleans Pelicans]], they use the team nickname at the time when referring to that period of history. So for your 1984 example, they'd say Redskins instead of Omegas. [[User:Only|only]] ([[User talk:Only#top|talk]]) 20:23, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
::[[History of the Washington Redskins]] will likely be renamed "History of the Washington Omegas", but any reference to a specific season in which the team was called the Redskins will refer to that team as the Redskins. Any reference to an overview of the franchise will likely change to the new name ("the Omegas have won five league championships in their history"). History won't be rewritten here, but when speaking about the overview of the franchise, only the new name will likely be used. <span style="font-family:Verdana">[[User:Eagles247|<b style="color:#004C54">Eagles</b>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Eagles247|<b style="color:#004C54">24/7</b>]]</span>&nbsp;[[Special:Contribs/Eagles247|<span style="color:#004C54; font-size:x-small">(C)</span>]] 00:13, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
:While the circumstances surrounding the name change are unprecedented (as far as I know), there are plenty of examples of teams changing names while "retaining their history," and this name change should be handled similarly to those situations. The Redskins themselves already have changed their name a few times (from the Boston Braves to the Boston Redskins to the Washington Redskins), and the corresponding sections on their history use the name for the team at that time. Everything outside of referring to the team in their historical context should be swapped over to the new name. [[User:Qwaiiplayer|Qwaiiplayer]] ([[User talk:Qwaiiplayer|talk]]) 03:39, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
::I think we have an obvious local-area example with the Washington Bullets changing their name a while back. (Come to think of it, that franchise probably has more name changes than any other in the four major sports leagues: Chicago Packers to Chicago Zephyrs to Baltimore Bullets to Capital Bullets to Washington Bullets to Washington Wizards.) Their most recent name change was probably about as close as it comes circumstance-wise to the Redskins' situation, given that Abe Pollin had decided "Bullets" unacceptably connoted gun violence. Their history still uses all the names, and their banners in Verizon Center pretty much all say "Bullets" (as the Wizards, they only have one division championship). The situation is decidedly distinct from situations like the original Cleveland Browns moving to Baltimore and "leaving their history behind." [[User:1995hoo|1995hoo]] ([[User talk:1995hoo|talk]]) 11:28, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
:We should follow the spirit of [[MOS:SURNAME]], where we use a person's name at the time of the period being discussed. In this case, refer to Redskins when talking about a specific related season. Anything about the franchise as a whole should probably use the new name.—[[User:Bagumba|Bagumba]] ([[User talk:Bagumba|talk]]) 12:22, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
::Agreed. However just for simplicity's sake, for any new staff or players that joined in 2020 (Ron Rivera and Chase Young, etc) we should probably just list the new name of the team instead of the "Redskins" once it is known (IE, Chase Young was drafted in the first round of the 2020 NFL Draft by the Washington Whatever). For anybody still on the team prior to 2020 (like Ryan Kerrigan), they should probably be listed as Washington Redskins (2011-2019) and then Washington Whatever (2020-present), right? ~ [[User:Dissident93|<b style="color: #660000;">''Dissident93''</b>]] <sup>([[User talk:Dissident93|<b style="color: #D18719;">''talk''</b>]])</sup> 22:24, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
:::I disagree with that. You could say "Chase Young is an American football defensive end for the Washington Whatevers. He was drafted by Washington in the first round of the 2020 NFL Draft." But you wouldn't say [[Derek Carr]] was drafted by the Las Vegas Raiders. I see what you mean about the players new to the team in 2020, but a similar thing happened in 1941 when the Steelers and Eagles drafted players for their teams and then basically swapped franchises (see [[Pennsylvania Polka]]). All players drafted in the [[1941 NFL Draft]] by the Pittsburgh Steelers franchise that became the Philadelphia Eagles franchise later in the offseason still say they were drafted by the Steelers (and vice versa). And for Kerrigan's infobox, it should say "Washington Redskins / Whatevers (2011–present)" like for players who played for the Tennessee franchise when they changed their name from Oilers to Titans in 1999 ([[Isaac Byrd]], for example). <span style="font-family:Verdana">[[User:Eagles247|<b style="color:#004C54">Eagles</b>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Eagles247|<b style="color:#004C54">24/7</b>]]</span>&nbsp;[[Special:Contribs/Eagles247|<span style="color:#004C54; font-size:x-small">(C)</span>]] 16:23, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
::::{{u|Eagles247}}, I wouldn't say Carr was drafted by Las Vegas because he signed his initial contract when they were in Oakland. We ''do'' for [[Henry Ruggs]] because the team had already been officially renamed (due to the move) prior to the draft. As Chase (and all other 2020 Redskin rookies) have not signed their contracts yet, this becomes a question of technicality for them since they were never officially "Redskins". However, I suppose the Oilers/Titans style is the cleanest option we have for the vets and free agents, yeah. ~ [[User:Dissident93|<b style="color: #660000;">''Dissident93''</b>]] <sup>([[User talk:Dissident93|<b style="color: #D18719;">''talk''</b>]])</sup> 00:24, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
*The article will most likely be renamed as soon as the new team name is announced. I'm hoping it's the Pigskins, but thats another matter. The article ''History of the Washington Redskins'' will most likely be renamed to ''The History of the Washington Pigskins'' and then a new article, ''History of the Washington Redskins'' will be created to keep the Redskins history there. Plenty of precident for this. Also all players who played for the Redskins will continue to be referred to as playing for the Redskins. For example, ''John Riggins was an NFL running back for the Washington Redskins''. Again, there is precedent for this.--[[User:Jojhutton|<font color="#A81933">JOJ</font>]] [[User talk:Jojhutton|<font color="#CC9900"><sup>Hutton</sup>]]</font> 20:33, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
*Ultimately it's up to the NFL to decide wether the records are credited to one continuous, but renamed entity or to two separate entities. We then merely reflect what the reliable sources report they do.[[User:Tvx1|T]][[User Talk:Tvx1|v]][[Special:Contributions/Tvx1|x]]1 18:44, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 13 July 2020 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Washington Redskins|answered=yes}}
The Washington Redskins were a professional American football team based in the Washington metropolitan area. The team competed in the National Football League (NFL) as a member of the NFC East. The team played its home games at FedExField in Landover, Maryland; its headquarters and training facility was at Inova Sports Performance Center at Redskins Park in Ashburn, Virginia, and the Redskins Complex in Richmond, Virginia, respectively.[2] The Redskins have played more than 1,000 games since their founding in 1932, and were one of only five franchises in the NFL to record over 600 regular season and postseason wins, reaching that mark in 2015.[3] The Redskins won five NFL Championships (the latter three in Super Bowls), and have captured 14 divisional titles and five conference championships.[4] The Redskins were the first NFL franchise with an official marching band and the first with a fight song, "Hail to the Redskins".[5] [[Special:Contributions/71.254.14.239|71.254.14.239]] ([[User talk:71.254.14.239|talk]]) 21:40, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
:Not done. See sections above. They shouldn't be referred to in the past tense. [[User:Only|only]] ([[User talk:Only#top|talk]]) 21:43, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
::The same IP user made the same request on the main NFL article's talk page in an utterly vague and unsatisfactory way. I answered the request in the negative there and referred the user here, consistent with your response. [[User:1995hoo|1995hoo]] ([[User talk:1995hoo|talk]]) 22:01, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

== Sexual harassment scandal ==

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/16/sports/football/washington-sexual-assault-harassment-dan-snyder.html <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/89.10.252.159|89.10.252.159]] ([[User talk:89.10.252.159#top|talk]]) 23:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Pending name ==


Officially, for the time being, the football team that plays in Washington will officially be known as... "The Washington Football Team". [https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/washington-football/washington-settles-washington-football-team-their-name-upcoming-season-sources] So should we move it to such or wait until they get a better name, which they will, since they said it will be "pending"? - [[User:Jasonbres|Jasonbres]] ([[User talk:Jasonbres|talk]]) 16:27, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
:If they officially drop Redskins, it should be moved. '''<span style="border: 1px #8C001A solid;background:#8C001A">[[User:Calidum|<span style="color: #FFFDD0;">Calidum</span>]]</span>''' 16:28, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
::it's officially dropped. They just don't have a new name yet.

"The generic name replaces “Redskins,” the organization’s 87-year-old name that had become a target for many who believed that it was offensive and a slur toward Native Americans. On July 13, the team said it would “retire” the name Redskins at the end of a “thorough review” of the name that the club started on July 3 in response to increased criticism and pressure from sponsors.

“For updated brand clarity and consistency purposes, we will call ourselves the “Washington Football Team” pending adoption of a new name,” the team said in a release. “We encourage fans, media and all other parties to use “Washington Football Team” immediately. The Redskins name and logo will officially be retired by the start of the 2020 season.”"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/07/23/washington-redskins-new-team-name-washington-football-team/
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/us-sport/national-football-league/washington-redskins-new-name-change-football-team-2020-nfl-latest-a9635001.html
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2020/07/23/washington-football-team-redskins-2020-rebranding-logo-dan-snyder/5494337002/

== Requested move 23 July 2020 ==
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top -->
:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]] after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. ''

The result of the move request was: '''moved''' per [[WP:SNOW]], especially now that the name is official. I see a hatnote has already been added to address the ambiguity. --[[User:Tavix| <span style="color:#000080; font-family:georgia">'''T'''avix</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:Tavix|<span style="color:#000080; font-family:georgia">talk</span>]])</sup> 19:02, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
----

[[:Washington Redskins]] → {{no redirect|Washington Football Team}} – The team has officially adopted the name "Washington Football Team" while they settle on a new permanent name (see [https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1286334173947613184 here]). It is not appropriate for them to continue being referred to as the Redskins any more. – [[User:PeeJay2K3|Pee]][[User talk:PeeJay2K3|Jay]] 16:29, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
*'''Wait''' for an official announcement from the team and/or league. '''<span style="border: 1px #8C001A solid;background:#8C001A">[[User:Calidum|<span style="color: #FFFDD0;">Calidum</span>]]</span>''' 16:31, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
**They did make an official announcement of the name change, so it should be moved now. '''''<font face="Times New"><span style="text-shadow:#666666 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">[[User:Srsrox|<big><font color="#000080">srsrox</font></big>]] [[User talk:Srsrox|<sup><font color="#000000">BlahBlahBlah...]]</font></sup></span></font>''''' 17:09, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
*'''Agree'''; they have changed the name to "Washington Football Team" on their official Twitter account and elsewhere.[[User:-A-M-B-1996-|-A-M-B-1996-]] ([[User talk:-A-M-B-1996-|talk]]) 16:53, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
*'''Agree'''; They're officially this name now and we don't know how long they'll take to rename themselves. Move. '''''<font face="Times New"><span style="text-shadow:#666666 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">[[User:Srsrox|<big><font color="#000080">srsrox</font></big>]] [[User talk:Srsrox|<sup><font color="#000000">BlahBlahBlah...]]</font></sup></span></font>''''' 17:08, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
* '''Agree'''; Move now or racist!!!! [[Special:Contributions/100.35.194.5|100.35.194.5]] ([[User talk:100.35.194.5|talk]]) 17:46, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
Agree. The NFL have announced this will be their name until further notice [[User:Steven a91|Steven a91]] ([[User talk:Steven a91|talk]]) 17:10, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
*'''Agree'''; The NFL website officially confirmed that the new name of the team is "Washington Football Team" (per [https://www.nfl.com/news/washington-football-team-nfl-name-change]) – [[User:Daboyle250]] ([[User talk:Daboyle250|talk]]) 17:12, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
*'''Agree''' see also https://www.redskins.com/team/washingtonfootball
*'''Agree''' since even the team has changed it's Twitter handle to @WashingtonNFL (https://twitter.com/WashingtonNFL) [[User:Bluorangefyre|Bluorangefyre]] ([[User talk:Bluorangefyre|talk]]) 17:28, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
*'''Neutral on this page itself, but oppose moving most other pages.''' This is a clear placeholder-name case, where it might cause more trouble than it's worth to move all the relevant pages immediately. For that reason, though ''this page and their 2020 season page'' should probably be moved, other franchise-wide pages should remain at Redskins until the team's name for the 2020 season is confirmed. '''[[User:Old Naval Rooftops|<span style="color:#002244">O.N.R.</span>]]'''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Old Naval Rooftops|<span style="color:#002244">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 17:40, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
**This is the name for the 2020 season. They're going to use it for this year so they can take the time to fully develop a permanent name for next season, according to the news release. With that said, while changing the past season articles would be incorrect, as the old name was in use for those years, other franchise-wide pages that include info on the 2020 season in any form should not keep the Redskins name because it is not the name of the team for the 2020 season. [[User:Oknazevad|oknazevad]] ([[User talk:Oknazevad|talk]]) 18:08, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
*'''Agree''' Team officially announced.[[User:Pennsylvania2|Pennsylvania2]] ([[User talk:Pennsylvania2|talk]]) 17:45, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
*'''Agree'''; Name change is official. [[User:Useight|Useight]] ([[User talk:Useight|talk]]) 17:47, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
*'''Agree'''; it's official. Surprised this hasn't been done already. [[Special:Contributions/65.51.198.50|65.51.198.50]] ([[User talk:65.51.198.50|talk]]) 17:49, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
*'''Strongly Agree'''; no questions asked, just do it. [[User:Swagging|Swagging]] ([[User talk:Swagging|talk]]) 17:51, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
*'''Agree''' Although very grudingly. Official website has been changed to this, but I don't want to see this article and topic become polorizing for the wrong reasons. I'm very disturbed by some of the ignorant comments on this thread already.--[[User:Jojhutton|<font color="#A81933">JOJ</font>]] [[User talk:Jojhutton|<font color="#CC9900"><sup>Hutton</sup>]]</font> 17:51, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
*'''Agree''' multiple reputable news source have reported that the old name will be gone prior to the start of the 2020 season.
*'''Agree''' as per above and the fact that it's a working title. [[User:Buffaboy|<span style="font-weight: bold; color: #002C73;">Buffaboy</span>]] [[User talk:Buffaboy|<sup><span style="font-weight: bold; color: #EDA900; ">talk</span></sup>]] 17:53, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
*'''Opposed to that specific name due to ambiguity, and oppose moving most other pages.''' I agree with the comments from user O.N.R. further up. I think as a practical matter, rushing to change every page would create a massive amount of unnecessary work because it would mean moving pages twice, which is simply a waste of time. Also, regardless of what the team said about "Washington Football Team," I think that term itself is potentially ambiguous because of other teams throughout history as well as the University of Washington. I suggest '''Washington NFL Team''' or '''Washington Football Team (NFL franchise)''' would be better choices. [[User:1995hoo|1995hoo]] ([[User talk:1995hoo|talk]]) 17:56, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
**Neither if this are acceptable. One is made up and plain incorrect, the other is unnecessary disambiguation as there's no other article by the proposed title. [[User:Oknazevad|oknazevad]] ([[User talk:Oknazevad|talk]]) 18:10, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
***"Acceptable"? "Made up and plain incorrect"? Give me a break. The point is that "Washington NFL Team" is a proposal for an appropriate ''descriptive'' and ''unambiguous'' name. Do you dispute that the team is an NFL team with Washington in its name? If you don't dispute that, then you certainly agree that there is nothing "made up" nor "incorrect" about my first suggestion. (I can see the vast consensus is going to be to move it, but your reply is disingenuous and rude.) [[User:1995hoo|1995hoo]] ([[User talk:1995hoo|talk]]) 18:21, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
*'''Strongly Agree'''; they've already announced an "immediate suspension" of the former nickname. They're not the R-slurs anymore. There can surely be references to their racist past on the page, but there's no need for this page to have that name. DO IT NOW OR ELSE! [[Special:Contributions/2601:C6:4380:58D0:F149:A74B:E5A5:635|2601:C6:4380:58D0:F149:A74B:E5A5:635]] ([[User talk:2601:C6:4380:58D0:F149:A74B:E5A5:635|talk]]) 18:06, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
**"Or else" what? [[User:1995hoo|1995hoo]] ([[User talk:1995hoo|talk]]) 18:06, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
*'''Support move'''. The name has been changed. Even if the new name is just a placeholder that will be changed again in a year, there's zero reason to keep the old name, which has been dropped like a lead balloon. [[User:Oknazevad|oknazevad]] ([[User talk:Oknazevad|talk]]) 18:08, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
*'''Agree''' There's no telling when the official new name will be rolled out, so changing it to the placeholder name for now makes sense. [[User:Qwaiiplayer|Qwaiiplayer]] ([[User talk:Qwaiiplayer|talk]]) 18:11, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
*'''Support''', seems to be the name for 2020 until they can reveal the permanent name sometime later. ~ [[User:Dissident93|<b style="color: #660000;">''Dissident93''</b>]] <sup>([[User talk:Dissident93|<b style="color: #D18719;">''talk''</b>]])</sup> 18:17, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - they are no longer the Redskins. --[[User:Bob247|Bob247]] ([[User talk:Bob247|talk]]) 18:22, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
*'''Strongly Agree''' - And close this discussion, consensus is clear here. [[User:CatcherStorm|<b><i><span style="text-shadow:3px 3px 4px darkgray;"><span style="color:#0000A0">CatcherStorm</span></span></i></b>]] [[User talk:CatcherStorm|<sup><i><span style="color:#2C3539">talk</span></i></sup>]] 18:25, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
*'''Support''' Change it now, change it again once they have an actual name.--<span style="background-color:blue; color:red;">'''Rockchalk'''</span>[[User:Rockchalk717|7]][[User talk:Rockchalk717|17]] 18:27, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' for now. We title articles based on the common name, not the official name, and it's too soon for the common name to have changed. And since this is just a generic placeholder name until a new permanent name is chosen, the team is likely continue to be commonly known by the old name for some time. [[User:Rreagan007|Rreagan007]] ([[User talk:Rreagan007|talk]]) 18:29, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
*:{{u|Rreagan007}}, they have already announced plans to get rid of all the "Redskins" branded things they can before the season opener in just over a month. Their common name in publications has already become just Washington. ~ [[User:Dissident93|<b style="color: #660000;">''Dissident93''</b>]] <sup>([[User talk:Dissident93|<b style="color: #D18719;">''talk''</b>]])</sup> 18:33, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. It's official now. [[User:Rockhead126|Rockhead126]] ([[User talk:Rockhead126|talk]]) 18:29, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. Wikipedia values accuracy over bureaucracy. We know the current name of this article is no longer accurate nor true, so move, to what they now say their name is. [[User:Alanscottwalker|Alanscottwalker]] ([[User talk:Alanscottwalker|talk]]) 18:38, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. It's official and most articles have been changed accordingly. [[User:TdanTce|TdanTce]] ([[User talk:TdanTce|talk]]) 18:52, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. The team made an official announcement so the article name should be changed. - [[User:Richiekim|Richiekim]] ([[User talk:Richiekim|talk]]) 19:00, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
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: ''The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.''<!-- from [[Template:Archive bottom]] -->
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== "The" ?? ==

Perhaps this is a trivial point, but it's an annoying bit of grammar. What is the name of the new team? Is it "Washington Football Team" or "The Washington Football Team"? This article is full of inconsistencies. This reminds of [[Family Guy]] and [[Home Depot]]. Are those the proper names? Because very often, they're preceded by "The". It makes a difference; one is the formal, correct name. The other is not. Another example: universities whose name contains the word "institute" fall into this mess sometimes. Some people are happy to write "The California Institute of Technology", but no one writes "The Harvard" or "The Yale".
[[User:Polihale|Polihale]] ([[User talk:Polihale|talk]]) 06:01, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 22:15, 3 December 2024

"Football Team (NFL Team)" listed at Redirects for discussion

[edit]

The redirect Football Team (NFL Team) has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 January 24 § Football Team (NFL Team) until a consensus is reached. Hey man im josh (talk) 19:25, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why were Walter Wetzel and Two Guns White Calf omitted?

[edit]

Why is there no mention of the instigator of the original logo, Walter Wetzel, from the Blackfeet Nation?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/dec/07/a-native-american-designed-washingtons-logo-now-his-family-want-it-back

And no mention either of the person who was the inspiration for the illustration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Two_Guns_White_Calf

Seems wikipedia wants to completely erase Native Americans' connections to the franchise. Hayden41 (talk) 11:29, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Hayden41:, feel free to add material if you think it is appropriate. That's what is great about Wikipedia; anyone can edit. meamemg (talk) 14:03, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm afraid the page is protected and cannot be edited, at least I have no such privileges. Hayden41 (talk) 16:13, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Hayden41 A mention of Mr Wetzel was added to the section "Redskins name and logo controversy" on May 16, apparently as a result of Senator Daines' testimony on the subject at a Senate hearing. I have added the link to John Two Guns White Calf and added an extra sentence based on the Guardian link you provided. Thanks for the suggestion. rbrwr± 20:51, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you very much! Hayden41 (talk) 05:20, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 25 June 2024

[edit]

atmospher = atmosphere 2603:8000:D300:3650:2810:CA2F:BB22:D291 (talk) 06:49, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done. rbrwr± 07:26, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mark Rypien Ring of Fame

[edit]

Quarterback Mark Rypien was inducted into the franchise Ring of Fame in 2014 https://www.commanders.com/photos/mark-rypien-ring-of-fame-induction-14036593#41ba76fc-babf-4bc5-9a60-aff8be5df2f2 68.131.65.35 (talk) 02:45, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done ~ Dissident93 (talk) 03:30, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Washington_Commanders&oldid=1261032344"