Wikipedia:Village pump (technical): Difference between revisions
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{{village pump page header|1=Technical|2=The '''technical''' section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues ''about'' '''Wikipedia'''. Bug reports and feature requests should be made in [[mw:Phabricator|Phabricator]] (see [[mw:How to report a bug|how to report a bug]]). Bugs with [[web application security|security implications]] should be reported differently (see [[mw:Reporting security bugs|how to report security bugs]]). |
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Newcomers to the technical village pump are encouraged to read [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Before posting|these guidelines]] prior to posting here. If you want to report a [[JavaScript]] error, please follow [[Wikipedia:Reporting JavaScript errors|this guideline]]. Questions about [[MediaWiki]] in general should be posted at the [[mw:Project:Support desk|MediaWiki support desk]]. Discussions are automatically archived after remaining inactive for five days. |
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{{Village pump page header|1=Technical|2=The '''technical''' section of the [[Wikipedia:Village pump|village pump]] is used to discuss technical issues ''about'' '''Wikipedia'''. Bug reports and feature requests should be made in [[mw:Phabricator|Phabricator]] (see [[mw:How to report a bug|how to report a bug]]). Bugs with [[web application security|security implications]] should be reported differently (see [[mw:Reporting security bugs|how to report security bugs]]). |
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If you want to report a [[JavaScript]] error, please follow [[Wikipedia:Reporting JavaScript errors|this guideline]]. Questions about [[MediaWiki]] in general should be posted at the [[mw:Project:Support desk|MediaWiki support desk]]. Discussions are automatically archived after remaining inactive for five days. |
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|center=<div id="villagepumpfaq" style="clear:both; text-align: center; margin: 0 auto;">{{FAQ|see also=[[Wikipedia:FAQ/Technical]]|style=margin: 0 auto; width: 85%;|collapsed=yes}}</div> |
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== VPNgate blocking bot == |
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I am seeking consensus on a proposal to develop and deploy a bot to help block VPNgate IP addresses used by a particular [[WP:LTA]]. For [[WP:DENY]]/[[WP:BEANS]] reasons, I cannot provide full details, but users familiar with the LTA in question will understand the context. |
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== Blank page == |
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Hi. When I tried today to access the page [[Overture (Bruckner)]], I got only a blank screen. Please fix this issue. --[[User:Meneerke bloem|Réginald alias Meneerke bloem]] <small>([[User talk:Meneerke bloem|To reply]])</small> 13:05, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:{{works for me}} {{re|Meneerke bloem}} please try again, if it is still not working, please try in [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Overture_(Bruckner)&safemode=1 safe mode]. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 13:37, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::[[U|Xaosflux]] It is only working in safe mode. What could be "unsafe" in the page, so that it can be removed? --[[User:Meneerke bloem|Réginald alias Meneerke bloem]] <small>([[User talk:Meneerke bloem|To reply]])</small> 14:51, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::{{re|Meneerke bloem}} try clearing your cache and restarting your browser. Also, have you enabled any experimental features or non-default gadgets in your preferences? — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 15:51, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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=== Background === |
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::::[[U|Xaosflux]] I have cleared the cache and restarted the computer, and... I can still open it only in safe mode. --[[User:Meneerke bloem|Réginald alias Meneerke bloem]] <small>([[User talk:Meneerke bloem|To reply]])</small> 17:37, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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I have tested several VPNgate IPs, and very few of them are currently blocked. According to Wikipedia's policy on open proxies and VPNs (per [[WP:NOP]]), these should be blocked. Given the volume of VPNgate IPs, I propose using a bot to automate this process. |
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:::::{{re|Meneerke bloem}} are you using a desktop browser? Can you try to see if you can open it when you are not logged in to wikipedia, possibly in a private browsing window, and possibly with a different browser? Is your browser a relatively current version? — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 17:57, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::::{{u|Meneerke bloem}}, It would help if you could let us know 1) What browser you're using, and 2) What operating system. That will help people reproduce the problem you're seeing. For what it's worth, I just tried it on my MacOS system using Chrome, Firefox, and Safari, and on my Android phone, and no problems on any of those. So, it's likely something specific to your environment and the more we know about your environment the more we can help you. -- [[User:RoySmith|RoySmith]] [[User Talk:RoySmith|(talk)]] 18:10, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::::{{u|Xaosflux}} I have used Interner Explorer. I just tried to open it via Firefox, with also a blank page. My operating system is Windows 10. '''NB:''' I have no problem with the corresponding page on the French Wikipedia. But (very strange), I have the same problem with the corresponding IMSLP page, that I can also open only via an "index.php?" connection. The problem concerns thus apparently only these specific English Wikipedia and IMSLP pages.--[[User:Meneerke bloem|Réginald alias Meneerke bloem]] <small>([[User talk:Meneerke bloem|To reply]])</small> |
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::::::{{u|Xaosflux}} & {{u|RoySmith}} I have also tried to open it via Google Chrome, with also a blank page... |
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::::::'''PS:''' I have today downloaded a recording of the Bruckner's Overture on YouTube. Should it interfere? --[[User:Meneerke bloem|Réginald alias Meneerke bloem]] <small>([[User talk:Meneerke bloem|To reply]])</small> 18:51, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::::::{{re|Meneerke bloem}} Can you try the [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overture_(Bruckner) mobile view]? Also If you haven't spent a lot of time customizing things, you can try to reset your prefences using these 2 links: [[Special:Preferences/reset]] and [[Special:GlobalPreferences/reset]]. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 19:20, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::::::::If you go to the page, can you use your browser to 'view the source' - and see if there is anything in there at all? — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 19:21, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::::::::{{re|Meneerke bloem}} Another thing you might try is looking back in the page history and seeing if there's some earlier revision which is viewable. Maybe the problem is that somebody inserted some broken wiki-markup. Narrowing it down to two successive revisions, one of which you can view and the other of which you can't, would be useful. -- [[User:RoySmith|RoySmith]] [[User Talk:RoySmith|(talk)]] 19:55, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::::::::::I have done all that you have advised. It does unfortunately not help. I can still open the page only with [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Overture_(Bruckner)] --[[User:Meneerke bloem|Réginald alias Meneerke bloem]] <small>([[User talk:Meneerke bloem|To reply]])</small> 09:00, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::::::::::When you try to open the page in a new private-browsing window, after your browser stops processing, look at the "view source" for the page, is there anything at all in the html source? — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 13:59, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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This is building off [[WP:BOTREQUESTS#VPNGate|this discussion]] on [[WP:BOTREQUESTS]]. |
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== Page-preview for disambiguation links == |
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I am posting here to gauge consensus needed for a [[WP:BRFA]]. |
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[[File:App-view.wikipedia.png|thumb|right|What you see in the wikipedia app]] [[File:Desktop-view.wikipedia.png|thumb|right|What you see on desktop computers]] |
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Hello from german wikipedia! Since about one year these preview-feature is default for using wikipedia without an account (with an account open your [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering|settings]] or [[Special:GlobalPreferences#mw-prefsection-rendering|global settings]], section "Reading preferences" and checkmark "Page previews (get quick previews of a topic while reading a page):"). So it is enabled for most of the visitors. |
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=== Proposal === |
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The example page I used is: [[Müller (lunar crater)]], the link to see that preview is ''"For other uses, see Müller."'' (at the bottom of the page in the app, at the top on the desktop). |
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I propose a bot to automate blocking these VPNgate IPs using the following steps: |
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# The bot will use [https://www.vpngate.net/enwiki/api/iphone/ this list] provided by VPNgate, which contains OpenVPN configuration files in Base64 format. The provided "IP" value is only the one that your computer uses to talk to the VPN (and sometimes wrong), not the one used for the VPN to talk to Wikipedia/external internet - this requires testing to uncover. |
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In the wikipedia app (upper picture) you see that hint ''"This title relates to more than one page"'' and below the beginning of the disambiguation page. Fine! |
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# The bot will iterate through each config file and use OpenVPN to test if it can connect. If successful, it will then use the VPN to send a request to [https://www.ipify.org/ this WhatIsMyIPAddress API] to determine the real-world IP address used by each VPN to connect to Wikipedia. This is sometimes the same as the IP used to talk to the VPN - but sometimes completely different, see the demo edit I did using VPNgate on the Bot Requests discussion linked above and I also did one as a reply to this post. Also, testing is needed before blanket blocking because VPNgate claim to fill the list with fake IPs to prevent it from being used for blocking, again see the BR discussion. |
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'''Blocking or Reporting''': |
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On Desktop computers you see the same hint and below ''"View similar pages"''. |
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* If the bot is approved as an admin bot, it will immediately block the identified IPs or modify block settings to disable TPA (see Yamla's recent ANI discussion per the necessity for this) and enable auto block. |
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* If the bot is not approved to run as an admin bot, it will add the IPs to an interface-protected JSON file in its userspace for a bot operated by an admin to actually do the blocking. |
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=== Additional Information === |
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We are wondering, if ''"This title relates to more than one page"'' should be replaced by a text telling the user something like ''"This is an disambiguation page"'' <small>(your english is sure better!)</small>. And on the desktop the lower part is even more confusing. It says ''"View similar pages"'' but when proceeding you open the disambiguation and not similar pages. But the more important issue with that text is: Why is more information shown in the wikipedia app with a tiny screen, compared to the desktop with a usually much larger screen. So shouldn't the desktop behave the same way like the app? |
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* I have already developed and tested this bot locally using Pywikibot. I have tested it on a local MediaWiki install and it successfully prevents all VPNgate users from editing (should they not be IP block exempt). |
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* I’m posting here to gauge broader community consensus beyond the original [[WP:BOTREQUESTS]] discussion. |
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=== Poll Options === |
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When using that [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCller_(lunar_crater)?uselang=qqx magic language qqx] I see two system message, both can be found in translation wiki, but I see no such messages for the other page previews, so it smells to be an issue for phabricator, but I am not really sure. |
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* '''Oppose''': Object to the bot proposal. Feel free to explain why. |
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* '''Support''' options: |
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# '''Admin Bot (admin given code)''': An admin will run the bot, and I will provide the code for them to run, as well as desired environment setup etc. and will need to send any code changes or packages updates to them to perform. ''Admin needs to be quite technically competent.'' |
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# '''Admin Bot (admin gives me token)''': An admin provides me with the bot token (scoped per Anomie below) of a newly created account only for this purpose, allowing me to run the code under myself on Toolforge and fully manage environment setup (needs install and config of multiple python and brew packages not needed for standard pywikibot) as well as instantly deploy any needed code changes or dependency updates without bottlenecks. ''Admin only needs to know how to use Wikipedia UI and navigate to [[Special:BotToken]], check some boxes, and then submit.'' |
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# <s>'''Admin Bot (I run it)''': For this specific case I am permitted to run my own admin bot.</s> Withdrawn per Rchard2scout and WMF <code>viewdeleted</code> policy. |
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# <s>'''Bot without Admin Privileges''': The bot will report IPs for potential blocking without admin privileges. ''Not recommended per large volume.''</s> Withdrawn per 98 IPs/hour volume, too much for a human admin. |
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# '''Non-admin bot v2 (<u>preferred by me</u>)''': My bot, [[User:MolecularBot]] is '''not''' an admin bot. It can, however, add IP addresses that it finds are the egress of open VPNgate proxies to [[User:MolecularBot/IP HitList.json]] (editable only by the bot and [[WP:PLIERS]]/interface admins). This means I can run the code for it and manage the complex environment. An admin's bot will be running the uncomplicated code (doesn't require the complex environment and OpenVPN setup for this bot) to just monitor that page for changes and block any IPs added. |
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=== Poll === |
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German discussion: [[:de:Wikipedia:Fragen_zur_Wikipedia#Seitenvorschau_bei_BKL-Links]] … if you want to read it, (it is sadly still short). --[[User:Wurgl|Wurgl]] ([[User talk:Wurgl|talk]]) 13:41, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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* <s>'''Oppose''' for now. From reading that discussion, it looks like the IPs available through the API are only the "ingress" IPs, which is what you connect to on their side when using the VPN (and even then, it seems like the VPN client might sometimes use another IP instead?). If there's actually a publicly available list of outgoing IPs available, I'd be very surprised. From an operational standpoint, those IPs don't need to be public, and if they are, that's a serious error on their side. If we do somehow get our hands on a list, I'd be in favour of '''option 1'''. There's plenty of admins available who are able to run bots. --[[User:Rchard2scout|rchard2scout]] ([[User talk:Rchard2scout|talk]]) 08:37, 17 December 2024 (UTC)</s> |
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:{{u|Wurgl}} seems like a simple inconsistency in the implementation of popups between the app and the website. Implementation for website is [https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/g/mediawiki/extensions/Popups/+/12195426b464cc5d47040ff1a75bee03ac766d9c/src/ui/renderer.js#193 here]. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 20:05, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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*:Hi {{u|rchard2scout}}, I think you misunderstand the bot. The bot connects to each "ingress" IP and then finds out the "egress" IP that it uses by sending a request to a "what is my IP address API" (not associated with VPNGate in any way), then blocking the egress. This fully disables VPNgate on my local instance of MediaWiki. Thus, a list of egress IPs are not required, because it makes it own by connecting to each of the ingress ones and sending a request. I apologize if my documentation wasn't clear. [[User:MolecularPilot|<span style="color: #0369a1; font-family:monospace">MolecularPilot</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:MolecularPilot|🧪️]][[Special:Contributions/MolecularPilot|✈️]]</sup> 08:44, 17 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*::Noting that I currently do have a complete list of "egress" IPs from my local run of the bot, so should I take your vote as a '''support''' of option 1 like you stated? Thank you. [[User:MolecularPilot|<span style="color: #0369a1; font-family:monospace">MolecularPilot</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:MolecularPilot|🧪️]][[Special:Contributions/MolecularPilot|✈️]]</sup> 08:45, 17 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::{{u|TheDJ}}, this might be worth a Phab ticket? Not sure. --[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 21:04, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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*:Oops, you're right, I somehow missed this. Hadn't had my first coffee yet ;). Striking, adding new vote. |
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::: Well, the text can be changed in translatewiki, this is not a general issue, it is an issue of every single wiki. |
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*::That's so fine, my brain is a little laggy in the early morning as well! My technical/documentation writing probably needs some work as well, it's not my best skill (anyone please feel free to edit this post and make it clearer, if it's wrong I'll just fix it). Thank you for your time in reviewing this even though it's still the early morning where you are! :) [[User:MolecularPilot|<span style="color: #0369a1; font-family:monospace">MolecularPilot</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:MolecularPilot|🧪️]][[Special:Contributions/MolecularPilot|✈️]]</sup> 09:38, 17 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::: But the maybe-phab-issue is why the preview page does not show a preview, instead it shows some (somehow not optimal) message ''"View similar pages"''. --[[User:Wurgl|Wurgl]] ([[User talk:Wurgl|talk]]) 23:24, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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* '''Support option 1'''. Options 2 and 3 are probably incompatible with our local and WMF policies, because an admin bot can do anything an admin can do, and you haven't gone through RfA, so you're not allowed access to rights like {{mono|viewdeleted}}. Or (@ anyone who know this) are OAuth permissions granular enough that an admin can generate a token that allows a bot access to {{mono|block}} but not to other permissions? In any case, I think option 1 is the easiest and safest way, there's plenty of admins available who are able to run bots. --[[User:Rchard2scout|rchard2scout]] ([[User talk:Rchard2scout|talk]]) 08:59, 17 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::::{{u|Wurgl}}, sure you can file a ticket for that. But its a minor problem, so I consider the chance of it getting any attention very low. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 11:06, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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*: Hi {{u|Rchard2scout}}, thank you for your new comment and feedback. I hope your morning is going well! Ah yes <code>viewdeleted</code>, silly me to forget about that (I have the opposite problem as you before, it is far too late at night where I live!), I do recall it from someone else's declined proposal of admin sortion, I've struck Option 3 now per WMF legal policy. Re OAuth permissions, I know from using Huggle that when you create a bot token there's a very fine grained list of checkboxed for you to tick, and "block" is in fact one of them, so it is that granular as to avoid all other admin perms, I've expanded Option #2 above to clarify this and more circumstances. I do believe this would be my preferred option, per the reasons I've placed in my expansion, but are really happy with anything as long as we can deal with this LTA. Anyway, enjoy your morning! [[User:MolecularPilot|<span style="color: #0369a1; font-family:monospace">MolecularPilot</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:MolecularPilot|🧪️]][[Special:Contributions/MolecularPilot|✈️]]</sup> 11:29, 17 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::[[User:SGrabarczuk (WMF)|SGrabarczuk (WMF)]], is this something that the [[mw:Desktop improvements]] project might want to look at? [[User:Whatamidoing (WMF)|Whatamidoing (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Whatamidoing (WMF)|talk]]) 18:09, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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*: There's no grant allowing <code>block</code> but no other permissions. The minimum additional admin permissions would be <code>block</code>, <code>blockemail</code>, <code>unreviewedpages</code>, and <code>unwatchedpages</code>. [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 12:33, 17 December 2024 (UTC) |
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{{clear}} |
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*: '''Support option 5''' as well, and that doesn't even need a BRFA or an RFC. We do then need consensus for the adminbot part of that proposal, so perhaps this discussion can focus on that. --[[User:Rchard2scout|rchard2scout]] ([[User talk:Rchard2scout|talk]]) 10:19, 18 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*'''Option 1'''. I believe this is the only option allowed under policy. Admins need to run admin bots. This RFC is a bit complicated. Usually an RFC of this type would just get consensus for the task ("Is there consensus to run a bot that blocks VPNGate IP addresses?"), with implementation details to be worked out later. –[[User:Novem Linguae|<span style="color:blue">'''Novem Linguae'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]])</small> 12:09, 17 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*:'''Option 5''' is fine if the bot doesn't need to do any blocking and is just keeping a list up-to-date. Don't even need this RFC or a BRFA if you stick the page in your userspace ([[WP:EXEMPTBOT]]). –[[User:Novem Linguae|<span style="color:blue">'''Novem Linguae'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]])</small> 09:50, 18 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*I'd like to suggest an alternative approach: Write a bot or Toolforge tool that generates a data feed of IP addresses, starting with VPN Gate egress IP addresses, perhaps including the first seen timestamp and last seen timestamp for each egress. The blocking and unblocking portion of the process is relatively simple and a number of administrators could write, maintain, and run a bot that does that. (I suspect most administrators that run bots would prefer to write their own code to do that.) [[User:Daniel Quinlan|Daniel Quinlan]] ([[User talk:Daniel Quinlan|talk]]) 23:04, 17 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*:Well, I started writing this suggestion before option 5 was added. Since it looks like this is basically the same as that option, put me down as being in favor of '''Option 5'''. [[User:Daniel Quinlan|Daniel Quinlan]] ([[User talk:Daniel Quinlan|talk]]) 23:15, 17 December 2024 (UTC) |
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** Hahaha, great minds think alike I guess! Thank you for your input. :) [[User:MolecularPilot|<span style="color: #0369a1; font-family:monospace">MolecularPilot</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:MolecularPilot|🧪️]][[Special:Contributions/MolecularPilot|✈️]]</sup> 09:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC) |
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* Courtesy ping for {{u|Rchard2scout}} and {{u|Novem Linguae}} notifying them of the new preferred option 5 above, which I believe makes everything easier for both myself and the admin who wishes to help me (I'll leave a note on AN asking nicely once BRFA passes for MolecularBot). Also, {{u|Skynxnex}}, you expressed support for option 5 below, did you mean to format that as a support !vote in this section (my apologies for the confusing layout of everything here). Thank you very much to everyone for your time in reviewing this proposal and leaving very helpful feedback. [[User:MolecularPilot|<span style="color: #0369a1; font-family:monospace">MolecularPilot</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:MolecularPilot|🧪️]][[Special:Contributions/MolecularPilot|✈️]]</sup> 09:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*:I don't feel like I've thought about the different aspects to do a bolded !vote yet. [[User:Skynxnex|Skynxnex]] ([[User talk:Skynxnex|talk]]) 15:07, 18 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*::That's so fine, thank you anyway for your feedback! :) [[User:MolecularPilot|<span style="color: #0369a1; font-family:monospace">MolecularPilot</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:MolecularPilot|🧪️]][[Special:Contributions/MolecularPilot|✈️]]</sup> 23:07, 18 December 2024 (UTC) |
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=== Discussion === |
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== Access to non-notable articles == |
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*Hey, it's me, [[User:MolecularPilot]] on VPNgate. This VPN is listed as 112.187.104.70 on VPNgate cause that's what my PC talks to. But, this VPN when talking to Wikipedia, uses 121.179.23.53 as shown which is <u>completely different</u> and '''not listed anywhere on VPNgate''', showing the need for actually testing the VPNs and figuring out the output IPs are my bot does. Can this IP please be [[WP:OPP]] blocked? [[Special:Contributions/121.179.23.53|121.179.23.53]] ([[User talk:121.179.23.53|talk]]) 06:22, 17 December 2024 (UTC) |
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{{archive top|The OP has repeatedly failed to actually specify what they are asking for here, despite being asked multiple times, merely replying that they believe "it" (whatever "It" is) is feasible, and that others don't understand. Since it is impossible to answer a question that is not explained in understandable terms, this section is merely wasting the time of many other editors. If the OP is capable of explaining ''exactly'' what they are asking for, in clear and unambiguous terms, they may open a new section here. Otherwise, this is merely a timesink. [[User_talk:Black Kite|Black Kite (talk)]] 18:47, 5 August 2020 (UTC)}} |
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**Can confirm this is me! :) [[User:MolecularPilot|<span style="color: #0369a1; font-family:monospace">MolecularPilot</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:MolecularPilot|🧪️]][[Special:Contributions/MolecularPilot|✈️]]</sup> 06:24, 17 December 2024 (UTC) |
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This is a technical and policy-related proposal. |
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* There is a relevant Phabricator ticket: {{phab|T380917}}. – [[User:DreamRimmer|<span style="color:black">'''DreamRimmer'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:DreamRimmer|'''talk''']])</small> 12:02, 17 December 2024 (UTC) |
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* I don't think non-admins can run admin bots. Perhaps you would like to publicly post your source code, then ask an admin to run it? cc {{u|Daniel Quinlan}}. –[[User:Novem Linguae|<span style="color:blue">'''Novem Linguae'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]])</small> 12:05, 17 December 2024 (UTC) |
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* I don't think blocking a single VPN provider will have the effect people want it to have. It's easy for a disruptive editor to switch VPNs. This is really a problem that needs to be solved by WMF. [[User:Daniel Quinlan|Daniel Quinlan]] ([[User talk:Daniel Quinlan|talk]]) 15:45, 17 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*:Hi {{u|Daniel Quinlan}}, I guess I didn't make this clear enough in the post but this is designed to work with existing WMF proposals that are being worked on. Both {{phab|T380917}} and {{phab|T354599}} block/give higher edit filter scrutiny based on existing lists of "bad" IPs, this is the same as the old ST47ProxyBot (which actually does scanning but doesn't monitor "egress" IPs, it only attempts to connect to the "ingress" and then blocks it if successfully). This is great for a wide variety of proxy services because ingress/egress is the same, but for modern, more advanced services like VPNgate (and perhaps some services that because a problem for us in future) the ingress IP address is often '''not the same''' as the one used to edit Wikipedia, and so requires this solution (this bot). I'll admit that blocking VPNgate won't fully stop this LTA or all proxy vandals but VPNgate is quite a large and widely used network (claiming a total of 18,810,237,498 lifetime connections) that is currently almost fully permitted to edit Wikipedia, and by blocking it this significantly reduces the surface area for proxy attacks. This also creates the infrastructure for easily blocking any future VPN services that use different ingress/egress IPs - the bot can be easily expanded to use new lists. [[User:MolecularPilot|<span style="color: #0369a1; font-family:monospace">MolecularPilot</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:MolecularPilot|🧪️]][[Special:Contributions/MolecularPilot|✈️]]</sup> 21:14, 17 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*What is the actual expected volume per day of new IPs to block? It looks like the current list has 98 ingress IPs (if I'm understanding the configuration blocks correctly). I'll also say I have pretty strong concerns about sharing "personal" tokens of any kind between users, particularly admin permission ones with non-admins. [[User:Skynxnex|Skynxnex]] ([[User talk:Skynxnex|talk]]) 19:48, 17 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*:The list available through [https://www.vpngate.net/enwiki/api/iphone/ this API] frequently rotates. It only provides 98 ingress IPs at a time, as you stated and refetching the list without [some duration of time, from my estimates it's around '''1 hour'''] passing returns the same 98 IPs. After 1 hour (estimated) passes, a new 98 IPs are randomly selected to be provided to all users - but these may include some of the same IPs as before because they are picked by random selection from the whole list of 6057 (not available to the public), this has happened a couple times during my data gathering. Therefore re volume per hour, the ''maximum'' number of IPs to be blocked is '''98''', but it could be less due to already blocked IPs being included in that given hour's sample of 98, I hope this makes sense if there's anything that needs clarifying please don't hesitate to ask. [[User:MolecularPilot|<span style="color: #0369a1; font-family:monospace">MolecularPilot</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:MolecularPilot|🧪️]][[Special:Contributions/MolecularPilot|✈️]]</sup> 21:34, 17 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*::Re "personal" tokens it's actually not a "personal" token to the admin's account, it would be (in theory) a token to an adminbot account with the only things it can be used for being those helpfully specified by Anomie above. However, regardless I see the concerns so I've added a proposal 5 which hopefully is a decent compromise above and ensures that I don't have access to any admin perms/tokens, but that there aren't any bottlenecks and that admins don't need to setup a complex running environment. Thank you for your time in commenting, {{u|Skynxnex}}. [[User:MolecularPilot|<span style="color: #0369a1; font-family:monospace">MolecularPilot</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:MolecularPilot|🧪️]][[Special:Contributions/MolecularPilot|✈️]]</sup> 22:23, 17 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*:::I see bot tokens as fairly similar to personal tokens since bots are associated with an operator. I think proposal 5 has promise. [[User:Skynxnex|Skynxnex]] ([[User talk:Skynxnex|talk]]) 23:08, 17 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*:VPN Gate claims they have about 6,000 servers which is fairly close to my own estimate of how many IPs they are using. If we block each IP for six months, we'd end up averaging about 33 blocks per day. There would be a pretty large influx at the start, but I would want to spread that out over at least several weeks to avoid flooding the block log as badly as ST47ProxyBot did. [[User:Daniel Quinlan|Daniel Quinlan]] ([[User talk:Daniel Quinlan|talk]]) 23:10, 17 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*::It's worth noting that an unknown amount of 'servers' are user computers that people have volunteered cpu time for (this information is somewhere on the website), so, like we see often with IP users, the IP that each server uses can and likely will change with time. This doesn't mean that an effort like this bot won't help, of course, but it's unknown how effective (as a percentage) it would be with just 33 blocks a day. – [[Special:Contributions/2804:F14:809E:BA01:D0BD:CD6F:7C33:D1A2|2804:F1...33:D1A2]] ([[Special:Contribs/2804:F14::/32|::/32]]) ([[User talk:2804:F14:809E:BA01:D0BD:CD6F:7C33:D1A2|talk]]) 23:47, 17 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*:::33 blocks per day is a rough estimate, not a limit. Certainly there will be some delay when adding entries to any list generated as proposed above so the block rate will never reach 100%, but the egress IPs don't seem to change that much over time based on what I've seen. [[User:Daniel Quinlan|Daniel Quinlan]] ([[User talk:Daniel Quinlan|talk]]) 00:09, 18 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*:::So, I'm posting this anonymously through VPNGate because I don't want people to start suspecting me of things just because I admit to having used a VPN service some others are abusing to make disruptive edits here. Due to its strong base in Japan, I've used VPNGate many times in order to shop at Japanese web stores that block purchases from outside Japan (they typically don't want to offer international support and see this as the easiest solution for avoiding that), and I know a number of other people who've used it for similar reasons (also for Korea, which often has even more hosts available than Japan).<br> |
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*:::In any case, while I've personally never enabled this on my PC, I can confirm what IP 2804: said: there's definitely a swarm of short-term volunteer IPs associated with this service who aren't part of VPNGate proper. The overlap between such people and good faith Wikipedia editors may not be large, but it's unlikely to be zero. Unless you have a good mechanism to avoid excessively punishing such users for popping up on your list for the short period of time they themselves use the VPN, maybe it's better to wait for and official WMF solution, which (based on the phabs) seems to intend to take "IP reputation" into account and would thus likely exclude such ephemerals, or at least give them very short term blocks compared to the main servers. Because getting blocked here for several months for having been part of VPNGate for a few hours hardly seems fair.<br> |
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*:::Actually, now that I think about it: if you're going to connect to VPNGate servers for the express purpose of determining and blocking their exit IPs, you'd probably be in violation of their TOS. While you might consider this an "ends justifying the means" situation, are you sure you want to associate the WMF with such unauthorized usage? There's a difference between port scanning or getting an IP list via an API and actually '''traversing''' the VPN in order to investigate it. This absolutely is ''not'' a legal threat ''by me'', but if VPNGate were to learn of this, I wouldn't be surprised if they took action. Aren't there enough services out there that provide VPN IP lists without having to roll your own scanner? It would seem a safer bet for the WMF to use something like that. [[Special:Contributions/125.161.156.63|125.161.156.63]] ([[User talk:125.161.156.63|talk]]) 16:05, 19 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*::::Oh, you didn't have to anonymise yourself, we don't cast [[WP:ASPERSIONS]] here and now you won't get a reply notification but that's okay! :) I checked the terms of service of their website before making their bot and it just says not to do anything IRL illegal otherwise they'll give your logged data to authorities if subpoenaed, but I will reach out to the VPNgate operators in Japanese (good practice opportunity, huh) when I have time just to double-confirm they're okay with everything. But btw, they encourage checking that your IP has changed to demonstrate it has worked in their how-to-guides, and this isn't 'tranaversing" as we're not collecting data on every single node but only the public IP of the exit node. Re short-term volunteers, that's a great point, and I'll update the JSON schema of its published data to include a "number of sightings" number, so that the blocking adminbot would escalate blocks as this increases so maybe it starts really short term like 2.5 days/60 hours (6000 active volunteers on average, divided by 100 checked every hour, minimum time to ensure the IP has truly stopped) if it's just 1 sighting but ramps up exponentially if it's seen again as an egress IP untill we're talking like 6months - 2 years blocks. Re WMF tickets, the distributed fact of VPNgate that anyone can start hosting means that most VPNgate IP addresses won't have a bad "reputation" (I checked a whole bunch on a variety of reputation lists and the egresses always had "good"" reputations) so reputation checking won't help (but they need short term blocks), also as you can't publically see the egress with VPNgate cause it's different to ingress (unlike most networks). So WMF solutions are actually quite innovative and smart for most VPN/proxy networks, it's just that VPNgate is a bit different needing a unique solution, this bot. [[User:MolecularPilot|<span style="color: #0369a1; font-family:monospace">MolecularPilot</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:MolecularPilot|🧪️]][[Special:Contributions/MolecularPilot|✈️]]</sup> 04:43, 20 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*:::::I guess I'm just too careful or chicken even if most people would refrain from casting aspersions.<br> |
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*:::::I don't quite understand why you say you're not traversing. You're not just touching the network from one side, you're passing through it and coming out on the other side, that's traversing. However if they don't mind it, then I guess you're in luck. Ecxept maybe if those Japanese laws they mention a mllion times in their documents have a problem with something like this.<br> |
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*:::::I don't know what the WMF is basing its reputation measurements on. My meaning was that sites like browserleaks.com almost always seem to know about the VPN status of the exit nodes I've used over time. I don't know where they're getting this information from exactly, but that's what I meant by reputation, not whether they're good or bad but what they're known to engage in, like being a VPN node. And that database is probabably built either through collaboration or by specialized services, which the WNF can use as well. Like email providers use common antispam databases instead of each rolling their own.<br> |
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*:::::In any case, good luck with your bot, because I'm afraid these persistent abusers you want to keep out by this probably won't be averse to paying for commercial VPNs if they have to, and many of those only cost a handful of bucks a month. Commercial companies will almost certainly have a TOS that would prohibit your bot, so to counter them the WMF would in the end still have to resort to a specialist or collaborative VPN IP list of some kind. You can probably cut down on casual troublemakers by tracking VPNGate but I don't think it'll help all that much much against anyone highly motivated. They can even continue using VPNGate, it'll just be less convenient because they have to find brand new nodes before you catch those. |
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*::::: [[Special:Contributions/92.253.31.37|92.253.31.37]] ([[User talk:92.253.31.37|talk]]) 17:39, 20 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*::::::I'm not sure what you mean by "Japanese Laws" they keep mentioning they don't seem to mention any, when I told you that the ToS said don't do anything irl illegal I was referring to [https://www.vpngate.net/en/about_abuse.aspx this ToS page] which doesn't mention any "Japanese Laws" but just says don't do anything like CSAM like your government can subpoena us for, because we'll comply (and directions for LEOs to request this). Re reputation yes, the major VPNgate nodes that have done it for a while do have bad reputations, particularly 219.100.37.0/24 which is the example servers run by the university themselves - but as you said, because anyone can start a VPNgate server and then there's always brand new nodes that won't have bad reputations and can be abused. But - as I've stated in a different discussion above, the list of VPN servers to connect to only updates with new servers hourly, so while reputation services won't catch the new exit nodes (because they won't be used poorly enough to trigger flagging for a white), the bot constantly waits for updates to the list and then immediately tests it to determine the new egress IPs. Re commercial services generally, unlike VPNgate, they use datacenters and static IPs that are assigned to "Hotspot Shield, Inc." (as an example) so it's easy to CIDR range block them and also the reputation of those deteriorates over time as they do bad things - the companies don't randomly get new IPs in random locations around the world, like VPNgate. In fact commercial reputation services excel at identifying commercial services (from my testing), but VPNgate is community distributed, like Wikipedia, and needs a unique approach. And yes, as I said to Daniel, I'll admit that blocking VPNgate won't fully stop this LTA or all proxy vandals but VPNgate is quite a large and widely used network (claiming a total of 18,810,237,498 lifetime connections) that is currently almost fully permitted to edit Wikipedia (the bot currently has 146 IPs in its [[User:MolecularBot/IPData.json|list]] and as shown by the stats section of the [https://molecularbot2.toolforge.org/ toolforge frontend], ~60% are currently unblocked (and this is an underestimate because the list is mainly the "obvious" ones that are always provided first in the 98 hourly sample, like 219.100.37.0/24. This is because the bot has only had 1 full run of all IPs in a given hour's list, and many failed partial runs of just the first couple. I think blocking VPNgate significantly reduces the surface area for proxy attacks - only looking at only 10 of the blocked IPs I see link spam, edit warring, block evasion, vandalism and our favourite [[WP:LTA]]. [[User:MolecularPilot|<span style="color: #0369a1; font-family:monospace">MolecularPilot</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:MolecularPilot|🧪️]][[Special:Contributions/MolecularPilot|✈️]]</sup> 08:38, 21 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*:::::::They mention Japanese laws repeatedly in the texts shown when you click the licence and notice buttons under Help > About of the SoftEther VPN Client Manager. It's a canned statement saying they only comply with Japanese laws because they can't possibly follow every law worldwide.<br> |
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*:::::::{{tq|the bot constantly waits for updates to the list and then immediately tests it to determine the new egress IPs}} Are you going to run multiple instances of the bot in parallel, because the 98 IP list you get per hour seems far from sufficient for make claims about a strong level of protection if there are ~6000 egresses, many of which churn. With your current setup, an abuser can get their own list refresh, which would be different from what the bot gets, run it past your very helpful :) IP check tool and then make edits from any IP not covered. Which may not be many, but they only need one out of their 98, so it's likely they'll get something as long as the volunteer swarm keeps changing.<br> |
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*:::::::Getting a bit more facetious, VPNGate could conversely determine the IP of your bot and block it as a censorship agent. :) I really think it contradicts the spirit of their operation even if they haven't prohibited it explicitly, since you don't happen to be a state agent. This is just my conjecture, but I'm guessing that if you looked at your IP list edits without focusing solely on the abuse, you'd also see constructive edits coming from them, quite possibly from people using VPNGate to bypass state firewalls. I am well aware of Wikipedia open proxy policy, but it can make editing somewhat difficult for such people.<br> |
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*:::::::These remain my two sticking points: while useful, the bot won't be quite as effective as you represent; and you're arguably abusing their service to operate yours.<br> |
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*:::::::Once this bot starts issuing blocks, you should probably amend [[Help:I have been blocked]] to include verbiage about having used a VPN in the recent past, because this situation isn't really covered by the "you are using a VPN" or collateral damage statements. [[Special:Contributions/211.220.201.217|211.220.201.217]] ([[User talk:211.220.201.217|talk]]) 15:21, 21 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*::::::::VPNgate does not have as firm of a ground as you claim. Yes, companies have terms of use and those terms of use often have clauses of disputes being filed in their local country. However, as multiple attourneys have pointed out, this local dispute solving when dealing with an customer from abroad does not really work. In reality, VPNgate is forced to deal with international laws, because otherwise they will just lose their case. (one of the legal opinions supporting this: https://svamc.org/cross-border-business-disputes-company-use-international-arbitration/ ) |
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*::::::::As far as blocks go, yes, they could block one user, but let me remind you that there are 120,000 active wikipedia users. The script could just be passed on between users until all of their IP ranges are blocked. They would lose that war, every time. [[User:Snævar|Snævar]] ([[User talk:Snævar|talk]]) 20:11, 21 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*:::::::::I don't recall claiming anything about firm ground. I have a problem with the WMF or parties associated with it engaging in somewhat questionable practices, even if it is for a good cause. I'm OK with port scanning or getting data from an API, because that's external probing, but actually passing through someone's premises with the intent of later restricting their users is something I find objectionable, and it is my conjecture that VPNGate would think likewise. If VPNGate blocked one user's bot, that would simply be an indication that they object to such activities, and having a million other users on the ready to take over would change nothing about that, and I'm fairly certain the WMF does not subscribe to this sort of hackerish way of thinking anyway. VPNGate aren't outlaws against whom anything goes, they operate a prefectly legitimate service, albeit one that some people abuse. It's also possible that it's just me, and VPNGate themselves have no objection to any of this. The OP was going to ask them, so I presume they'll inform everyone about the response sometime soon. [[Special:Contributions/220.81.178.129|220.81.178.129]] ([[User talk:220.81.178.129|talk]]) 11:44, 22 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*::::::::::Yes, this is definitely not something that should be adversarial or "us against them" and if they express concerns about this behaviour, we should totally not try and evade it - after all VPNgate does share our mission of spreading free knowledge to the world (and are very useful to spreading Wikipedia and other websites around the globe, it's just some bad actors taking advantage of the kind service of both the university and the volunteers creating a problem). We just need to find a way to work together to ensure that we both can continue to do our things. Being the holiday season, it's pretty busy for me and I'm sure the [[Christmas in Japan|same is true]] for the operators so I will reach out in the new year re their thoughts on this. [[User:MolecularPilot|<span style="color: #0369a1; font-family:monospace">MolecularPilot</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:MolecularPilot|🧪️]][[Special:Contributions/MolecularPilot|✈️]]</sup> 04:45, 23 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*::::::::Hi! The abuser can't get their own list refresh seperate from what the bot sees, I guess I wasn't clear before but what I meant was that '''everyone''' gets the '''same''' 98 IPs every hour, and then the next hour another 98 are randomly selected to be shown to everyone. |
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*::::::::Re censroship/state agencies this doesn't help state agents or censorship at all, because they want to block the input/ingress IP addresses that citizens would use to connect to the VPN network, and knowing the egress that the VPN network uses to connect to servers doesn't help them at all. I have clarified this in the README.md now so anyone who sees the project will know that it can't be used for censorship. |
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*::::::::Re users bypassing state firewalls, they can still read and if they want to edit we have [[WP:ACC]] for that (abusers could go through acc I guess, but then they can't block evade once their account gets indef'ed - and VPNgate has been used a lot by link spammers, people who want to edit war (especially someone who got really upset about [[caste]]s, I've seen a lot of edit warring from detected IPs about that) to evade the blocks on their main account). |
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*::::::::Btw, thank you for calling my tool helpful, I'm not the best at UI design but I tried to put some effort in and make it looks nice and have useful functions. Thank you to you as well for your time in providing soooo much helpful feedback to make the bot better. :) [[User:MolecularPilot|<span style="color: #0369a1; font-family:monospace">MolecularPilot</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:MolecularPilot|🧪️]][[Special:Contributions/MolecularPilot|✈️]]</sup> 03:52, 22 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*:::::::::Also thanks for reminding me to provide guidance to users on this, I think the current [[WP:OPP]] block message doesn't really fit with the VPNgate mode of temporary volunteers (who the user effected might not even know about but could get a dynamic assignment with an IP blocked for a few days). I'll make a custom block template! :) [[User:MolecularPilot|<span style="color: #0369a1; font-family:monospace">MolecularPilot</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:MolecularPilot|🧪️]][[Special:Contributions/MolecularPilot|✈️]]</sup> 03:54, 22 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*::::::::::Tada I guess... {{tl|Blocked VPNgate}} Anyone reading this please feel comfortable to be [[WP:BOLD]] and make it better if you'd like, it's still a very early draft. :) [[User:MolecularPilot|<span style="color: #0369a1; font-family:monospace">MolecularPilot</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:MolecularPilot|🧪️]][[Special:Contributions/MolecularPilot|✈️]]</sup> 10:06, 22 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*:::::::::While tone of you thanks seems to include some aspersions :), you're welcome if what I've said has helped you. If the list is the same for everyone, you can indeed be a lot more effective. My point about censorship was less about you helping state censors and more about you using the loophole that VPNGate haven't said anything about private actors, and giving the impression that abuse is the ''only'' thing it is being used for. [[Special:Contributions/220.81.178.129|220.81.178.129]] ([[User talk:220.81.178.129|talk]]) 11:39, 22 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*::::::::::Oh no I'm really sad now, please don't take my tone when I thanked you in the wrong way (it can be both hard to express and pick up on the internet)! Maybe saying "sooooo" was a bit over the top, but you've genuinely gone back and forth with me a lot of times and always written detailed, logical suggestions or concerns to help, so genuinely, no sarcasm, thank you!!! :) [[User:MolecularPilot|<span style="color: #0369a1; font-family:monospace">MolecularPilot</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:MolecularPilot|🧪️]][[Special:Contributions/MolecularPilot|✈️]]</sup> 04:41, 23 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*:::::::::::All right then, and sorry about my tendency to lean a bit on the paranoid side. [[Special:Contributions/159.146.72.149|159.146.72.149]] ([[User talk:159.146.72.149|talk]]) 09:25, 23 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*::::::::::::That's so fine! :) [[User:MolecularPilot|<span style="color: #0369a1; font-family:monospace">MolecularPilot</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:MolecularPilot|🧪️]][[Special:Contributions/MolecularPilot|✈️]]</sup> 05:00, 24 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*:::::::::::How feasible would it be to make the list of IPs private/admin-only? I mean, they're still going to get blocked, and that's public, but I feel like making a ''public'' list, even if one may or may not already exist, might be an unnecessary step? |
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*:::::::::::If I ran a VPN service I'd be a lot less upset about Wikipedia defending itself than Wikipedia creating a public up-to-date list of VPN IPs that everyone can use, without effort, to mass block most of my VPN. – [[Special:Contributions/2804:F14:80DD:5501:947B:8E40:2657:88CF|2804:F1...57:88CF]] ([[Special:Contribs/2804:F14::/32|::/32]]) ([[User talk:2804:F14:80DD:5501:947B:8E40:2657:88CF|talk]]) 02:09, 24 December 2024 (UTC) |
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*::::::::::::I'm not really sure, I don't think there's a way to restrict viewing a page on EnWiki (I could whip up a MediaWiki extension enabling "read protection" of a page, but I doubt the WMF would install it), but we do have things like checkuserwiki, arbcomwiki etc. which have limited viewership so prep haps the bot could operate on a new antiabusewiki (but this would require even more work from WMF than installing the extension) and then a stewardbot could issue global blocks from there? I would also have to take down [https://molecularbot2.toolforge.org molecularbot2.toolforge.org] and the [https://github.com/IntegralPilot/Gateslam GitHub repo] (that anyone could just download code and run it to get their own list). But even if we don't have a list, it's trivial to query the MediaWiki API for block status (that's what the toolforge tool does in addition to seeing if the IP is listed at [[User:MolecularBot/IPData.json]] when you lookup an IP or generate stats), there's very high ratelimits for this, and you just need to check if the block reason is {{tl|Blocked VPNgate}} or whatever message the adminbot/stewardbot leaves. [[User:MolecularPilot|<span style="color: #0369a1; font-family:monospace">MolecularPilot</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:MolecularPilot|🧪️]][[Special:Contributions/MolecularPilot|✈️]]</sup> 04:54, 24 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== contentious topics/aware plus "topic code" == |
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[[Wikipedia:Viewing deleted content]] only adduces legal concerns that do not relate to notability. In {{oldid2|850610084|Policy suggestion|Policy suggestion}}, {{u|Ghostofnemo}} and others wish to access content that is not legally problematic. This is feasible. |
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i want to add the contentious topics/aware template to the top of my talkpage, but [[Template:Contentious_topics/table#Codes|the list of topic codes]] says to substitute the template so i did but the israel/palestine topic code did not display. how do i include the topic code? [[User:Daddyelectrolux|Daddyelectrolux]] ([[User talk:Daddyelectrolux|talk]]) 19:04, 19 December 2024 (UTC) |
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If you would like this feature, could any autoconfirmed user create a project page like [[Wikipedia:List of non-notable articles]] and help me develop the system? Later, new templates would help. [[Special:Contributions/84.120.7.178|84.120.7.178]] ([[User talk:84.120.7.178|talk]]) 15:10, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:Hi 84, there is no guarantee that deleted revision will be available in the future, however copies of deleted pages are routinely provided on request at [[Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion]] depending on why the page was deleted. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 15:54, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::For clarity, this was initially discussed [[User_talk:Megalibrarygirl#Meeting_point|here]] and then [[User_talk:Parsecboy#Access_to_non-notable_articles|here]]. 84 seems to be requesting the creation of a list of ''all'' articles that have been deleted for notability concerns, not individual articles on a case-by-case basis, as is the norm. [[User:Parsecboy|Parsecboy]] ([[User talk:Parsecboy|talk]]) 18:22, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::: {{re|Parsecboy}} For further clarity, you do not seem to understand the proposal. Also, you said "I don't really care one way or another", but you do care with your "''all'' articles that have been deleted". Please be more clear and let me ask a stupid question: will any administrator retaliate against any user that would like this feature? [[Special:Contributions/84.120.7.178|84.120.7.178]] ([[User talk:84.120.7.178|talk]]) 18:50, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::::If I do not understand your proposal, it's because you haven't sufficiently explained it. But since I apparently do not understand it, do me a favor and explain how have I mischaracterized it. Are you ''not'' asking for a list of all articles that have been deleted on notability grounds? If not that, what exactly would be the purpose of your [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Parsecboy&diff=971042878&oldid=970634332 proposed] [[Wikipedia:List of non-notable articles]] entail? [[User:Parsecboy|Parsecboy]] ([[User talk:Parsecboy|talk]]) 18:58, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::::I doubt we are going to want to spend time maintaining a special list of articles that have been deleted based upon the reason they were deleted - especially ones that are speedily deleted. You may use the deletion log to browse these along with the deletion reason, but if you want to filter that by namespace you will need to wait for [[phab:T16711]]. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 19:25, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::::* For the record: First administrator tells me she is not interested; end of discussion. Second administrator tells me to go to the village pump; end of discussion. |
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::::: {{re|Parsecboy}} Let us see what work would entail for you. If I ask you to restore [[Dhruv Vikram (actor)]], what would you do? [[Special:Contributions/84.120.7.178|84.120.7.178]] ([[User talk:84.120.7.178|talk]]) 19:35, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::::::Please link the places where you were told these things. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 19:44, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::::::See the two threads I linked above, Redrose. |
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:::::::84., you have not answered my question; if you're going to condescend about what I do and do not understand, do me the favor of explaining my misapprehension. I'll ask again: if you are ''not'' asking for a list of every article that has ever been deleted on notability grounds, ''what are you asking for?'' [[User:Parsecboy|Parsecboy]] ([[User talk:Parsecboy|talk]]) 19:52, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:@[[User:Daddyelectrolux|Daddyelectrolux]] You don't need to subst that template, you would just do {{tlx|Contentious topics/aware|a-i}}. <span class="nowrap">--[[User:Ahecht|Ahecht]] ([[User talk:Ahecht|<b style="color:#FFF;background:#04A;display:inline-block;padding:1px;vertical-align:middle;font:bold 50%/1 sans-serif;text-align:center">TALK<br />PAGE</b>]])</span> 19:51, 19 December 2024 (UTC) |
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{{od|:::::::}} I am not condescending to you, I am just trying to explain. You show your misapprehension by saying: |
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::the topic codes page states that the template should be substituted. perhaps that should be removed, to avoid new people from make my same mistake? thank you [[User:Ahecht]]. :) [[User:Daddyelectrolux|Daddyelectrolux]] ([[User talk:Daddyelectrolux|talk]]) 00:23, 20 December 2024 (UTC) |
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: It would probably be several full-time jobs to go through every article that's ever been deleted on notability grounds, not to mention keep up with it on a daily basis. [...] you're talking about an enormous amount of material that would likely require hundreds, if not thousands, of sub-lists to keep the size within manageable limits. |
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:::{{ping|Daddyelectrolux}} You wanted to use [[Template:Contentious topics/aware]] which doesn't say to use subst. [[Template:Contentious topics/table]] is used to document other templates and it varies whether they require subst. I have added this to the documentation.[https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Template:Contentious_topics/table/doc&diff=prev&oldid=1264094584] [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 12:14, 20 December 2024 (UTC) |
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This is not true. |
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::::To be fair, up until yesterday [[Template:Contentious topics/aware/doc]] just linked to [[Template:Contentious topics/table]]. I updated it so that it properly transcludes the table, which hides the <code>subst:</code> syntax. <span class="nowrap">--[[User:Ahecht|Ahecht]] ([[User talk:Ahecht|<b style="color:#FFF;background:#04A;display:inline-block;padding:1px;vertical-align:middle;font:bold 50%/1 sans-serif;text-align:center">TALK<br />PAGE</b>]])</span> 15:27, 20 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== Site is under maintenance == |
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Answering your question: a list of every article that has ever been deleted on notability grounds is eventually possible if users make all the corresponding requests or if archeological administrators wish to restore such articles. I am asking for a list of requested articles and possibly every article that will be deleted on notability grounds. [[Special:Contributions/84.120.7.178|84.120.7.178]] ([[User talk:84.120.7.178|talk]]) 21:35, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:Hi 84, admins deleting a page should be noting why the page was deleted. I'm assuming you are referring to speedy deletions here. You are welcome to download and mine the deletion log to generate lists (note, this does not mean you can store/host such lists on-wiki). — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 22:36, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:: [[Wikipedia talk:Viewing deleted content|Here]] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Parsecboy&diff=prev&oldid=971042878 here], 84 appears to be suggesting that the ''content'' of all deleted non-notable articles that don't have copyvio/legal issues should be viewable on-wiki, which clearly isn't going to happen. Asking for individual articles to be restored to Draft space is absolutely fine, of course, if they don't have such issues - and we have processes for that ([[WP:REFUND]]). [[User_talk:Black Kite|Black Kite (talk)]] 22:46, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:This request is dead in the water and would be [[WP:SNOW|closed swiftly]] if proposed as an actual change. I'm minded simply to {{tl|atop}} this and move on (maybe a trout for the user who suggested "try at WP:VP", who probably also knew this would be dead in the water). (On an aside, if there is a legitimate research use, there is a user group available for a logged in user.) --[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 22:52, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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I was unable to complete an edit a few minutes ago. I got an error message saying the site was under maintenance. Clicking on "back" did get me the edit I was trying to make and a few seconds later I was successful. |
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* Please do not be offended, I am trying to have a simpler discussion. |
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: {{re|Parsecboy}} I am concentrated on your understanding of my proposal. As you may see, there are no legal issues, no feasibility problems, insignificant maintenance cost, and very little extra load for administrators. Of course, if you are going to get into trouble, I would understand your refusal. [[Special:Contributions/84.120.7.178|84.120.7.178]] ([[User talk:84.120.7.178|talk]]) 23:55, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::You clearly do not understand the project you're requesting if you think there is insignificant maintenance cost or extra load for administrators... [[User:Parsecboy|Parsecboy]] ([[User talk:Parsecboy|talk]]) 23:57, 4 August 2020 (UTC) |
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I posted just for documentation but I am having difficulty with a site that is very slow and I came here to do an edit to have something to do while waiting for pages on that slow site to come up. The slow site slows everything else down.— [[User:Vchimpanzee|<span style="color:#070">Vchimpanzee</span>]] • [[User talk:Vchimpanzee|<span style="color:#aa4400"> talk</span>]] • [[Special:Contribs/Vchimpanzee|<span style="color:#700">contributions</span>]] • 21:21, 20 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::: So, did you understand the proposal from the beginning? Please tell me, what would be the maintenance cost? [[Special:Contributions/84.120.7.178|84.120.7.178]] ([[User talk:84.120.7.178|talk]]) 00:35, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::::Yes, I did; I have no idea why you thought I didn't. As for maintenance costs, tell me, how often are articles deleted every day? And do you imagine that those articles that are deleted will magically populate the page you're requesting all by themselves? [[User:Parsecboy|Parsecboy]] ([[User talk:Parsecboy|talk]]) 09:00, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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== Blacklisted website not on any blacklist == |
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::::: Oh, you do not seem to understand the proposal; I told you why.{{diff2|971225815}} Let us say one million articles are deleted per day. Why do you think those articles will not magically appear in the list? Perhaps because you are imagining a page displaying millions of entries at the same time? [[Special:Contributions/84.120.7.178|84.120.7.178]] ([[User talk:84.120.7.178|talk]]) 14:30, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::::: The reason he (and everyone else) doesn't understand your proposal is because you haven't, at any point, clearly explained exactly what you want. You keep mentioning lists of deleted articles and then talking about the ability to view deleted content. Anyway, please read my comment below as for why both are almost certainly not feasible. [[User_talk:Black Kite|Black Kite (talk)]] 14:46, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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I wanted to save an edit containing a link to tradingview.com but it keeps showing a message: |
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::::::: {{re|Black Kite}} Please do not be offended, I am trying to have a simpler discussion. |
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"Your edit was not saved because it contains a new external link to a site registered on Wikipedia's blacklist or Wikimedia's global blacklist. [...] The following link has triggered a protection filter: tradingview.com [...]" |
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::::::::Then please explain, concisely, what the benefits of such a list are to anyone because I don't see any. [[User:Nthep|Nthep]] ([[User talk:Nthep|talk]]) 16:24, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::::::: {{re|Parsecboy}} I am concentrated on your understanding of my proposal. I will await your reply. [[Special:Contributions/84.120.7.178|84.120.7.178]] ([[User talk:84.120.7.178|talk]]) 15:00, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::::::::84., an admin would have to ''manually'' review each article deleted to see if it was deleted on notability grounds, and then copy the title (and/or the content) into your proposed list. Why on earth do you think the list would automatically self-populate? [[User:Parsecboy|Parsecboy]] ([[User talk:Parsecboy|talk]]) 15:19, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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So I tried to figure out whether I shouldn't use that website as a source and on what blacklist that website is supposed to be but I couldn't find anything. Is that a bug? [[User:Killarnee|Killarnee]] ([[User talk:Killarnee|talk]]) 14:18, 21 December 2024 (UTC) |
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: {{od|:::::::}} This is an example of a big list that self-populates: [[Wikipedia:Contents/A–Z index]]. [[Special:Contributions/84.120.7.178|84.120.7.178]] ([[User talk:84.120.7.178|talk]]) 16:10, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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: It's on the global blacklist at [[meta:Spam blacklist]]. [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 14:29, 21 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:: Yes, you could do that for deleted material. But as I said before (a) how would you check which articles were deleted for notability? and (b) no-one except administrators would be able to see the content anyway. 16:40, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::Yeah. It was added in October 2017. See the [[meta:Talk:Spam blacklist/Archives/2017-10#tradingview.com|request]] and [[meta:User:COIBot/LinkReports/tradingview.com|link report]]. – [[User:DaZyzzogetonsGotDaLastWord|Daℤyzzos]] ([[User_talk:DaZyzzogetonsGotDaLastWord|✉️]] • [[Special:Contributions/DaZyzzogetonsGotDaLastWord|📤]]) <small>''Please do '''not''' [[Help:ping|ping]] on reply.''</small> 14:44, 21 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::Hm now I found it too, somehow the find tool in Safari wasn't able to find it. Thanks you both. Looks like I have to search for another source. [[User:Killarnee|Killarnee]] ([[User talk:Killarnee|talk]]) 14:58, 21 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== [[Special:Shortpages]] == |
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::: {{re|Black Kite}} Please sign your posts properly.{{diff2|971356853}} |
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::: {{re|Parsecboy}} I await your reply. [[Special:Contributions/84.120.7.178|84.120.7.178]] ([[User talk:84.120.7.178|talk]]) 18:25, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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When I try to view this special page I just get the following error: |
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*'''Comment'''. [[Special:Contributions/84.120.7.178|84.120.7.178]], there is a website called [[Deletionpedia]] (http://deletionpedia.org/en/Main_Page), which automatically archives all Wikipedia articles discussed for deletion. I don't know if it captures all speedy deletion candidates (I think it does get some of them), but if not you could certainly propose that to them. [[User:BD2412|<span style="background:gold">'''''BD2412'''''</span>]] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 00:49, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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{{!tq|[8f6642e6-42f2-4bba-8e7d-01bac9220c2f] 2024-12-21 18:40:02: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\RequestTimeout\RequestTimeoutException"}} |
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:: {{re|BD2412}} Thank you. I knew about Deletionpedia. [[Special:Contributions/84.120.7.178|84.120.7.178]] ([[User talk:84.120.7.178|talk]]) 01:00, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::: Since that project specifically focuses on content deleted from Wikipedia, what are you looking for that can't be better addressed there? [[User:BD2412|<span style="background:gold">'''''BD2412'''''</span>]] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 01:03, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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Is anyone else getting this error when viewing that page? Thanks. [[Special:Contributions/2A0E:1D47:9085:D200:E9BC:B9ED:405A:596B|2A0E:1D47:9085:D200:E9BC:B9ED:405A:596B]] ([[User talk:2A0E:1D47:9085:D200:E9BC:B9ED:405A:596B|talk]]) 18:42, 21 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:::: First, I am here to improve Wikipedia. Some users would like to access content that is not legally problematic. It is feasible. |
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:It works now. Problems come and go. I had to restart my phone half an hour ago to get something to work. ''Extra: That was a problem with an app on my phone (nothing to do with Wikipedia).'' [[User:Johnuniq|Johnuniq]] ([[User talk:Johnuniq|talk]]) 03:10, 22 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:::: On the other hand, Deletionpedia is not integrated with Wikipedia. There are several inconveniences that are out of the scope of this discussion. [[Special:Contributions/84.120.7.178|84.120.7.178]] ([[User talk:84.120.7.178|talk]]) 01:25, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:I see a similar error when I try to check logs for [[Special:Log/ProcseeBot]]. {{!tq|[1d666f00-ed84-4e73-928d-04edc6edc844] 2024-12-22 10:33:05: Fatal exception of type 'Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBQueryTimeoutError'.}} – [[User:DreamRimmer|<span style="color:black">'''DreamRimmer'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:DreamRimmer|'''talk''']])</small> 10:39, 22 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::::: It is not feasible. The only two ways it could happen are; |
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::Likely also worth noting that, above the error, it says {{tq|To avoid creating high database load, this query was aborted because the duration exceeded the limit.}} Though I suppose that's the definition of a timeout... – [[User:DaZyzzogetonsGotDaLastWord|Daℤyzzos]] ([[User_talk:DaZyzzogetonsGotDaLastWord|✉️]] • [[Special:Contributions/DaZyzzogetonsGotDaLastWord|📤]]) <small>''Please do '''not''' [[Help:ping|ping]] on reply.''</small> 15:43, 22 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::: 1) To give non-admins the view_deleted permission, which isn't possible |
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:Tracked at [[phab:T325062]]. – [[User:DreamRimmer|<span style="color:black">'''DreamRimmer'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:DreamRimmer|'''talk''']])</small> 18:00, 22 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::: 2) To somehow find all the hundreds of thousands of articles which were deleted for notability concerns ''only'', and restore them - but to where? Certainly not Wikipedia. |
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:::::: There are other problems; first of all it's practically impossible to find the deletion reason for anything deleted via AFD because the deletion log doesn't give a reason other than "deleted via AfD". Speedy deletions may give a log reason, but even if they were deleted for reason A7 and that appears in the log, that doesn't mean they didn't have copyright or other legal/BLP issues. Even if you could find a way round those issues, the sheer volume of articles means it would have to be done via an bot with admin permissions, and it is unlikely that (a) one would pass BRFA and (b) that you could find anyone to write such a complex bot, given that no reasonable explanation has been given for why this task is useful in the first place. [[User_talk:Black Kite|Black Kite (talk)]] 02:14, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::::::: I actually don't see why it would be impossible to create a permission for non-admins to view deleted edits, but if we had such a permission it would need its own fairly strict process for being granted to editors, who would first need to demonstrate a high level of experience and trustworthiness. [[User:BD2412|<span style="background:gold">'''''BD2412'''''</span>]] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 16:31, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::::::: WMF Legal have previously said that they would not contemplate it being extended further than admins and higher permissions. Thus, any process for being granted would have to be functionally identical to RfA, in which case those wanting the access might as well run for RfA anyway. Regardless, I ''think'' what the IP asking for is either (a) for ''any'' editor to be able to view all deleted material, which is a non-starter, or (b) for all material deleted for notability issues to be undeleted, which clearly isn't happening either. [[User_talk:Black Kite|Black Kite (talk)]] 16:36, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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*'''Comment''', it is feasible to create such a list, and i, amongst numerous other editors would be lining up to have it deleted at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion|afd]] (if it wasn't [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|speedied]]). [[User:Coolabahapple|Coolabahapple]] ([[User talk:Coolabahapple|talk]]) 05:59, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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{{ab}} |
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== Colors of images in {{tl|Infobox government agency}} are inverted in the dark mode == |
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== Download subset of the database (HTML Pages) == |
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When the {{tl|Infobox government agency}} template is included into some page, SVG images inside it have their colors [[Negative (photography)|inverted]] if the dark mode is on. See, for example, the article [[United States Department of State]], specifically the seal: it should have dark blue outter ring, white inner circle with a brown eagle, but instead you can see the seal with a bluish-white outter ring, black inner circle with an orange eagle. Looked at several other infobox templates, none of them have a simmilar issue. Also, only vector images are affected by this, raster images are not. I wanted to try to debug it, but the template is fully protected. [[User:Tohaomg|Tohaomg]] ([[User talk:Tohaomg|talk]]) 17:30, 22 December 2024 (UTC) |
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Greetings, |
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:@[[User:Tohaomg|Tohaomg]] it's most likely [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Template%3AInfobox_government_agency&diff=1260245952&oldid=1245207838 this edit] by {{ping|Jonesey95}} that has introduced the behaviour. Probably best discussed at [[Template talk:Infobox government agency]]. [[User:Nthep|Nthep]] ([[User talk:Nthep|talk]]) 18:04, 22 December 2024 (UTC) |
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We wish to scrape information regarding the Malls in the United States. Here is the link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_shopping_malls_in_the_United_States. I was wondering how can we download all the articles mentioned on this link. Please note that we wish to download the pages using nested links as well. Please suggest a suitable approach. |
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::See [[Template_talk:Infobox_government_agency#Template-protected_edit_request_on_28_November_2024|the previous discussion]]. A more comprehensive fix is welcome. The sandbox is open for anyone to edit. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 18:57, 22 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:::This is not an acceptable solution, please revert. [[User:Sjoerddebruin|<span style="color:var(--color-progressive,#36c); font-weight:var(--font-weight-semi-bold,600); letter-spacing:0.05em;">Sjoerd de Bruin</span>]] [[Overleg gebruiker:Sjoerddebruin|<small style="color:var(--color-progressive,#36c); letter-spacing:0.05em;">({{int:Talkpagelinktext}})</small>]] 20:52, 22 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:::The reason skin-invert worked for signatures was that white writing paper is common and even though colors in pens is varied, the most commonly used ones are dark. |
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:::Logos are not created on the basis of a palette of colors, unlike signatures. Logos are created to be visible and understandable from far away and close up. As such, they should not be inverted at large. |
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:::I consider the edit request in the template to be unactionable, as it did not ask for any particular solution, not even a hint at one. [[User:Snævar|Snævar]] ([[User talk:Snævar|talk]]) 23:24, 22 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::::I'm not sure why people are continuing to reply here. This discussion will be lost in the archives of VPT; please post at the template talk page with comments, suggestions, proposed fixes, or requests. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 06:00, 23 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::@[[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]]: I am not buying that argument for one second, also you are refusing to talk about the issue itself. Stop this bureaucratic nonsense. Most issues are solved during discussion not after, it being "lost in the archive" is a non starter as an argument. Clearly neither myself or Sjoerddebruin are going to move this discussion to the template talk page. If you continue attempting to refrain from discussing about the issue itself, consider this your first warning. I would also like to voice my disappointment of how you are handling this, I do expect better than this. [[User:Snævar|Snævar]] ([[User talk:Snævar|talk]]) 09:24, 23 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::Responding like this and bypassing the instructions that are clearly indicated at the top of the template page is really something, especially with an unsure edit summary. [[User:Sjoerddebruin|<span style="color:var(--color-progressive,#36c); font-weight:var(--font-weight-semi-bold,600); letter-spacing:0.05em;">Sjoerd de Bruin</span>]] [[Overleg gebruiker:Sjoerddebruin|<small style="color:var(--color-progressive,#36c); letter-spacing:0.05em;">({{int:Talkpagelinktext}})</small>]] 09:32, 23 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::::I wasn't discussing the issue here because of [[WP:MULTI]]. See the template's talk page for further discussion. I have reverted the change and continue to welcome a better way to fix the problem that was identified and that is still present. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 15:55, 23 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== Historical use of File:Wiki.png as the top-left logo == |
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Thanks, |
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Ashwini <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Ashwinitonge|Ashwinitonge]] ([[User talk:Ashwinitonge#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Ashwinitonge|contribs]]) 22:57, 4 August 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:{{u|Ashwinitonge}}, Here's a broad outline, which assumes you can write code. |
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: |
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:Wikipedia has an API, the technical details of which can be found [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Main_page here]. You will almost certainly not want to talk directly to the API, but rather use some higher-level client library [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Client_code in the language of your choice]. For example, if I was doing this in Python, I would use mwclient, which offers a very convenient way to [https://mwclient.readthedocs.io/en/latest/user/page-ops.html#categories traverse categories]. You could start with [[:Category:Lists of shopping malls in the United States]] and walk the tree from there. |
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: |
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:Warning: Although it's easy to think of categories as being a tree, they're not strictly a tree in the graph theory sense of the word. There's even category cycles! So, your "tree" walking code will have to take that into account. -- [[User:RoySmith|RoySmith]] [[User Talk:RoySmith|(talk)]] 02:36, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:{{u|Ashwinitonge}}, and please have any automation observe the [[mw:API:Etiquette|Etiquette]]. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 11:04, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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I wonder if anybody remembers some technical details of the use of File:Wiki.png for the logo in the top-left corner during the 2000s (not limited to enwiki). [[Talk:Wikipedia logo#Early logo of Wikipedia used in 2003|This discussion]] led me to asking this. I found some clues on Commons – quoting myself from the aforementioned discussion: |
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There is a unix command-line tool [https://github.com/greencardamom/Wikiget Wikiget] that makes interfacing with the API easier. Run <code><nowiki>wikiget -F 'List of shopping malls in the United_States' > forward.txt</nowiki></code> to make a list of the forward links. Then to retrieve the article source for each run <code><nowiki>awk '{print "wikiget -w \"" $0 "\" > " $0 }' forward.txt | csh</nowiki></code>. That downloads the wikisource. To download the HTML <code><nowiki>awk '{print "wget -q -O- \"" $0 "\" > " $0 }' forward.txt | csh</nowiki></code>. To get the list of articles from the category it would be <code><nowiki>wikiget -c 'List of shopping malls in the United_States' > category.txt</nowiki></code> -- [[User:GreenC|<span style="color: #006A4E;">'''Green'''</span>]][[User talk:GreenC|<span style="color: #093;">'''C'''</span>]] 14:08, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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{{tq2|1= |
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The log for File:Wiki.png shows two interesting entries: |
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* protection, 11 July 2005: {{tq|it's the sitewide logo in the upper left corner. Very bad if it were to get vandalized.}} |
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== Two articles on some wikis, single combined article on others. == |
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* deletion, 7 October 2005: {{tq|block upload of local logos for other wikis. Commons now uses [[:Image:Wiki-commons.png]] as the site-wide logo. See also [[commons:Template:Deletion_requests#Image:Wiki.png|Template:Deletion_requests#Image:Wiki.png]].}} |
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[[commons:Commons:Deletion_requests/Archive/2005/09#Image:Wiki.png]] is also interesting. [...]: |
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On enwiki, we've got [[Intel 8231/8232]]. On some other wikis, it's split into two articles. For example, [[:hu:Intel 8231]] and [[:hu:Intel 8232]]. These map to {{Wikidata entity link|Q65059248}} and {{Wikidata entity link|Q5918609}}. What's the best way to handle this so the interwiki links make sense? The easiest thing from enwiki's point of view would be to make all the other wikis do it just like we do, but it's not our place to tell huwiki how to organize their articles. -- [[User:RoySmith|RoySmith]] [[User Talk:RoySmith|(talk)]] 17:34, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:[[:d:Wikidata:Interwiki conflicts]] may be able to help. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 22:34, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:This is a general problem known since the beginning of Wikidata called the [[d:WD:BAC|Bonnie and Clyde problem]]. Consider reviewing that page. --[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 03:16, 6 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::{{u|Izno}}, Thanks for the pointer. That's exactly what I was looking for. -- [[User:RoySmith|RoySmith]] [[User Talk:RoySmith|(talk)]] 14:44, 6 August 2020 (UTC) |
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{{tq2|1=[[commons:Image:Wiki.png|Image:Wiki.png]] should be moved to a different name (already re-created at [[commons:File:Wiki-commons.png|Image:Wiki-commons.png]]) as it currently is aliasing that name on every wiki project and therefore not allowing local logos on those projects. Tim has already changed the logo location, so it shouldn't break the commons logo, but we should wait about a week before moving it to give time for the caches to update. The logo is now hardcoded so there is no need to protect this specific image.}} |
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== What is this message? == |
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}} |
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Does anybody remember any further details? |
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What is this message, "You do not have permission to move category pages."? Reply with the exact MediaWiki namespace message, I want to propose changes. –'''[[User:User456541|<span style="color:#048">User</span>]][[User talk:User456541|<span style="color:#080">45</span>]][[Special:Contributions/User456541|<span style="color:#880">65</span>]][[User:User456541/Stats|<span style="color:#804">41</span>]]''' 17:45, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:{{re|User456541}} it is [[MediaWiki:Cant-move-category-page]] - and notably that deny page also includes [[MediaWiki:Movenologintext]]. The first is mediawiki default, the later is locally customized. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 17:51, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:{{ping|User456541}} In the future, you can find such messages yourself by putting <code>uselang=qqx</code> in the query string. The ShowMessageNames gadget {{tq|{{int:gadget-ShowMessageNames}}}} in [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets]] will add a link to the sidebar to automatically do so. [[User:Jackmcbarn|Jackmcbarn]] ([[User talk:Jackmcbarn|talk]]) 21:22, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::[[WP:QQX]] also shows a way to search all messages for a string. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 21:57, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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Thanks, [[User:Janhrach|Janhrach]] ([[User talk:Janhrach|talk]]) 20:59, 22 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== PSA: hiding the Export to Commons button on file description pages == |
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{{Tracked|T232542}} |
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A new "Export to Commons" button was recently added to the UI. If you don't want to see it, then add the following code to your [[Special:MyPage/common.css|common.css]]: |
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<syntaxhighlight lang="css> |
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#ca-fileExporter {display: none !important;} |
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</syntaxhighlight> |
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-[[User talk:Fastily|<span style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS';color:Indigo;font-weight:bold;"><span style="font-size:120%;">F</span><span style="font-size:90%;">ASTILY</span></span>]] 22:39, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:{{re|Fastily}} I doubt adding that to your common.js would do anything so I changed your link. In my common.css it works like a charm. — <span style="color:#e08020">Alexis Jazz</span> ([[User talk:Alexis Jazz|talk]] or ping me) 23:00, 5 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::Thanks for fixing that. I even added it to [[Special:Diff/925281305/971402026|my own monobook.css]] before writing this post. I clearly need more coffee...☕️ -[[User talk:Fastily|<span style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS';color:Indigo;font-weight:bold;"><span style="font-size:120%;">F</span><span style="font-size:90%;">ASTILY</span></span>]] 02:45, 6 August 2020 (UTC) |
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== Request way to dismiss pending-changes banner == |
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Every time there's an unaccepted change to one of the pending-changes-protected articles on my watchlist, the watchlist page comes up with a big ugly banner at the top that I can't dismiss. Can't someone add an X button on it, or something? |
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I'm not looking for a css gadget or a "preferences" setting; I think this should be generally available. The behavior I have in mind is that if you dismiss it, it stays dismissed until there's another change to a PC-protected article on the watchlist (could be the same article). --[[User:Trovatore|Trovatore]] ([[User talk:Trovatore|talk]]) 01:22, 6 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:{{Re|Trovatore}} that is supposed to spur reviewers like you on to work on pages you have said you care about. Having reviewers tend to the pending changes queue is an important balance to the protection system. If you are no longer using this, we can remove you from the reviewers group and you won't see these anymore. That being said, to make this a dismissable banner it would need to incorporate a storage object/cookie - so a [[WP:BUG|software feature request]] would need to be requested, we can't do this on-wiki. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 11:32, 6 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::You could do it on client-side JS with jquery and a cookie or preferences key. When the close button is pushed, use <code><nowiki>$(".flaggedrevs-pending a")[0].href</nowiki></code> to get the diff URL of the top-most (newest) revision. Parse the oldid out of that, store that somewhere. Then, on the next page load, if the topmost oldid is the same, hide the bar. Doing it in MediaWiki would require database changes, and would be unlikely to be done anytime soon. If you want it done that way though, phab is [[mw:How to report a bug|thataway]]. --[[User:AntiCompositeNumber|AntiCompositeNumber]] ([[User talk:AntiCompositeNumber|talk]]) 00:53, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:{{Re|Xaosflux}} I am interested in being notified about pending changes — once per change. I do not like feeling pressured to address a change if I don't want to. I don't think this is an unreasonable attitude. As for the technical issues, I'm not an expert in MediaWiki frontend programming (or, for that matter, frontend programming), but ACN's solution sort of sounded plausible? --[[User:Trovatore|Trovatore]] ([[User talk:Trovatore|talk]]) 20:55, 8 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::{{re|Trovatore}} you can drop a request at [[Wikipedia:User scripts/Requests]] and see if someone wants to write a front-end hack for this using that method - if it is relatively bug free and becomes popular it could eventually be upgraded to a gadget. If it is very very popular, then filling out a request for software development to review and create it on the back end could be done. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 01:17, 9 August 2020 (UTC) |
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== Technical Wishes: FileExporter and FileImporter become default features on all Wikis == |
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<div class="plainlinks mw-content-ltr" lang="en" dir="ltr"> |
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The [[m:WMDE_Technical_Wishes/Move_files_to_Commons|FileExporter and FileImporter]] will become a default features on all wikis until August 7, 2020. They are planned to help you to move files from your local wiki to Wikimedia Commons easier while keeping all original file information (Description, Source, Date, Author, View History) intact. Additionally, the move is documented in the files view history. |
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How does it work? |
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Step 1: If you are an auto-confirmed user, you will see a link "Move file to Wikimedia Commons" on the local file page. |
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Step 2: When you click on this link, the FileImporter checks if the file can in fact be moved to Wikimedia Commons. These checks are performed based on the wiki's [[m:WMDE_Technical_Wishes/Move_files_to_Commons/Configuration_file_documentation|configuration file]] which is created and maintained by each local wiki community. |
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Step 3: If the file is compatible with Wikimedia Commons, you will be taken to an import page, at which you can update or add information regarding the file, such as the description. You can also add the 'Now Commons' template to the file on the local wiki by clicking the corresponding check box in the import form. Admins can delete the file from the local wiki by enabling the corresponding checkbox. By clicking on the 'Import' button at the end of the page, the file is imported to Wikimedia Commons. |
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If you want to know more about the [[m:WMDE_Technical_Wishes/Move_files_to_Commons|FileImporter extension]] or the [[m:WMDE_Technical_Wishes|Technical Wishes Project]], follow the links. --For the Technical Wishes Team: </div>[[User:Max Klemm (WMDE)|Max Klemm (WMDE)]] 09:13, 6 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:So {{re|Max Klemm (WMDE)}} the [[meta:WMDE_Technical_Wishes/Move_files_to_Commons#There's_a_license_missing_in_my_wiki's_configuration_file._What_do_I_do?|documentation]] says {{tq|Each wiki is responsible for their own configuration file}} - but it doesn't say where a community will control that, it is referencing files at [[mw:Extension:FileImporter/Data/en.wikipedia]] - which would be mainained by the mediawiki community? — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 11:25, 6 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::Hi {{re|Xaosflux}}, I am not sure if I understand your question. Yes, [[mw:Extension:FileImporter/Data/en.wikipedia]] is the configuration page for en.wikipedia. For a configuration page to work it must be a subpage of [[mw:Extension:FileImporter/Data]]. If you want to discuss changes of the configuration file with the community, I would imagine doing it on the [[mw:Extension_talk:FileImporter/Data/en.wikipedia|talk page of the configuration file]]. I hope this helps. -- For the Technical Wishes Team: [[User:Max Klemm (WMDE)|Max Klemm (WMDE)]] ([[User talk:Max Klemm (WMDE)|talk]]) 11:48, 6 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::{{re|Max Klemm (WMDE)}} with the pages not being actually on our project, we are subject to the editors of that project - the administrators of that project, vandals on that project etc. We won't know if they change (because we'd have to go visit a watchlist on another project), and won't be able to enforce project level governance. We wouldn't expect our editors to have to go follow a discussion on another project either. I'm actually surprised this isn't being controlled on commons - as the controls in that file are really about what commons will accept to their project. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 12:50, 6 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::::Conceptually, we would normally expect mediawikiwiki to house documentation, not running configuration. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 13:55, 6 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::::I actually think this kind of configuration should be outside a wiki's daily control, but barring moving it entirely to source, Commons makes much more sense. Or even here. (I understand reticence to moving it here.) --[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 15:40, 6 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::::::{{re|Izno}} I'd think commons' mediawiki space would be ideal, possibly as a nice json page. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 15:52, 6 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::::::MediaWiki space would be reasonable. --[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 15:58, 6 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:Is there an easy undo? Arguing about local files is a chronic problem where good editors have reasons to keep files at enwiki. Trolls and misguided users with nothing else to do could quickly irritate a lot of content creators. [[User:Johnuniq|Johnuniq]] ([[User talk:Johnuniq|talk]]) 23:49, 6 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::{{u|Johnuniq}}, Deletion works just as well as for any other method of moving files to Commons. Just as a note though, {{tl|Keep local}} only prevents the deletion of the local file. Files tagged with keep local for non-copyright reasons can and will be copied to Commons. This isn't really that different from when we linked CommonsHelper from {{tl|move to commons}} (before it broke). --[[User:AntiCompositeNumber|AntiCompositeNumber]] ([[User talk:AntiCompositeNumber|talk]]) 00:41, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::Are you saying it's ''copy'' rather than "<u>move</u> files from your local wiki to Wikimedia Commons"? That makes sense since import certainly does not affect the source wiki. [[User:Johnuniq|Johnuniq]] ([[User talk:Johnuniq|talk]]) 04:55, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::::From reading the documentation which doesn't clearly answer the question, it seems like the "user rights" subsection and the following section imply that the local file is not automatically deleted. One can tag it for deletion or an admin can delete it (and we already have a process and rules for doing that: [[WP:CSD#F8]]), but it's not an automatic consequence of importing. <p> Regarding the configuration, why it is not in the MediaWiki: namespace where extension configuration things usually go? [[User:Jo-Jo Eumerus|Jo-Jo Eumerus]] ([[User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus|talk]]) 08:39, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::::{{re|Max Klemm (WMDE)}} any feedback on the comments about why the config for this is on mediawiki wiki in normal pages? {{re|Jo-Jo Eumerus}} I think the "user rights" thing is a bit of hack to try to have the user have a non-trival account before uploading to commons? They don't need any special rights on the originating wiki to upload to commons after all. 90% of the work when this extension is used is on the commonswiki side. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 13:36, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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== Why does Wikiquote's Ref template and Wikipedia's Ref template handle commas in the date field differently? == |
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Wikiquote's ref template will parse "July 2 1999" just fine, but our template requires a comma, e.g. "July 2, 1999". Why is that? Can someone fix our template to stop caring so much? I screw this up on my first pass something like 25% of the time. -- [[User:Kendrick7|Kendrick7]]<sup>[[User_talk:Kendrick7|talk]]</sup> 00:30, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:{{u|Kendrick7}}, please ask at [[Help talk:Citation Style 1]]. --[[User:AntiCompositeNumber|AntiCompositeNumber]] ([[User talk:AntiCompositeNumber|talk]]) 00:39, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::Thanks! I was a little lost, I'll X-post this over there! -- [[User:Kendrick7|Kendrick7]]<sup>[[User_talk:Kendrick7|talk]]</sup> 00:42, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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== Change in talk page message alert? == |
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{{tracked|T259872}} |
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Hi greetings, were there any changes in notification system? Normally, when we get a new message in talkpage, it will give a notification and a message "You have got some message" with an yellowish orange background over talk link. Now the feature seems changed. The coloured background has disappeared now. Why these happens? Please help.--'''[[User:Path slopu|<span style="color:Red">PA</span><span style="color:Green">TH</span>]] [[User talk:Path slopu|<span style="color:Blue">SL</span><span style="color:Maroon">OP</span><span style="color:Darkorange">U</span>]]''' 08:42, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:{{reply|Path slopu}} I'm also having this issue and I'm using Firefox 79.0. I also posted that I've got the issue on the Teahouse. Thank you. [[User:Friend505|<span style="color:#B22222">F</span><span style="color:#A52A2A">r</span><span style="color:maroon">i</span><span style="color:#0000FF">e</span><span style="color:teal;">n</span><span style="color:#8B4513">d]][[User talk:Friend505#top|<span style="color:#00008B">5</span><span style="color:#A52A2A">0</span><span style="color:maroon">5</span>]] 10:54, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:{{re|Path slopu}} is this only happening in vector? When I'm in monobook I see the highlight, but not in vector. Try [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?useskin=monobook this link] and see if it shows? — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 13:46, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::{{u|Xaosflux}}, Hi greetings, thank you so much for your reply. I think this is happening only in vector. Because, there were a few problems reported in some wikis regarding the vector skin. Latest mediawiki version (at that time) collapsing TW links, preferences links, etc (some of what affected me) in some wikis. Now fixed. But I do not know if there was any situation in enwiki. Should I report this in phabricator? Please help. Thank you. '''[[User:Path slopu|<span style="color:Red">PA</span><span style="color:Green">TH</span>]] [[User talk:Path slopu|<span style="color:Blue">SL</span><span style="color:Maroon">OP</span><span style="color:Darkorange">U</span>]]''' 15:38, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::Thanks {{u|Path slopu}}, it has been reported in Phabricator already at [[phab:T259872]]. [[User:the wub|the wub]] [[User_talk:The wub|<span style="color: #008000">"?!"</span>]] 15:50, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::::{{re|The wub}}, Thank you for your help. Regards. '''[[User:Path slopu|<span style="color:Red">PA</span><span style="color:Green">TH</span>]] [[User talk:Path slopu|<span style="color:Blue">SL</span><span style="color:Maroon">OP</span><span style="color:Darkorange">U</span>]]''' 15:55, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:I honestly think this is better. I've always been slightly panicked every time I see that notice and the new notice is not that easy to miss anyway, but I guess it could be a problem with newer users ignoring warnings. --[[User:Trialpears|Trialpears]] ([[User talk:Trialpears|talk]]) 16:26, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:{{u|AntiCompositeNumber}} came up with this css code that restores the color: <code>.mw-echo-alert{background-color:#fc3;color:#000000;border-radius:2px;padding:0.25em 0.8em 0.2em 0.8em;font-weight:normal}</code>. Thought that might be of interest to others. Best, [[User:Barkeep49|Barkeep49]] ([[User_talk:Barkeep49|talk]]) 16:54, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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== Archive issue == |
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Sorry, I'm bad at creating archives, so this is probably about my fifth time here. The archives aren't showing on [[Talk:Alpe d'Huez]], and the archiving seems to have started at 2 not 1 ([[Talk:Alpe d'Huez/Archive 2]]). I copied this from another article, and presumably screwed it up when I did so- is someone able to fix this for me? [[User:Joseph2302|<b style="color:#CCCC00">Joseph</b>]][[User talk:Joseph2302|<b style="color:#00FF00">2302</b>]] ([[User talk:Joseph2302|talk)]] 11:08, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:Without looking at it, I'd say it was a similar situation to [[User talk:Σ/Archive/2019/July#Odd archiving of Talk:Daniel Day-Lewis]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 13:39, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:Fixed. When setting up the archive template you need to ensure that the <code>counter</code> parameter is set up to 1 (<code>|counter = 1</code>) or this will happen. ''–'' [[User:Majavah|Majavah]] <sup>[[User talk:Majavah|talk]] · [[Special:Contribs/Majavah|edits]]</sup> 13:41, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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== Global email preferences == |
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I've received a number of email notifications from Wikipedias I've never (knowingly) edited, in languages I can't read – Burmese, Annamese and another Indic language I haven't identified (Doteli?). I thought at first that my email address was compromised, but they seem genuine – I did receive a welcome message from a bot on as.wp, presumably because I [[:as:বিশেষ:অভিলেখ/Justlettersandnumbers|renamed a user who had edited there]]. I also got welcome messages on Hindi and Classical Chinese wp, but no email. |
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To save me spending hours searching, can someone tell me where to adjust my global email preferences to prevent this from happening again? "Email me when a page or a file on my watchlist has changed" is unchecked in my [[:meta:Special:Preferences]], but that doesn't seem to be enough. Thanks in advance, [[User:Justlettersandnumbers|Justlettersandnumbers]] ([[User talk:Justlettersandnumbers|talk]]) 14:12, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:You can use [[Special:GlobalPreferences#mw-prefsection-echo]]. Tick the box directly under {{tq|Notify me about these events}} (that will make that section global) and then you can adjust what notifications you will receive on any wikis. ''–'' [[User:Majavah|Majavah]] <sup>[[User talk:Majavah|talk]] · [[Special:Contribs/Majavah|edits]]</sup> 14:28, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::Thank you, {{u|Majavah}}. If I go to that page and select "Notify me about these events", the tick box for email for the first item ("Talk page message") is already deselected (empty). What do I have to do to make that preference actually apply on all Wikipedias? [[User:Justlettersandnumbers|Justlettersandnumbers]] ([[User talk:Justlettersandnumbers|talk]]) 20:41, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::{{u|Justlettersandnumbers}}, your global preferences will automatically apply to all Wikis that use Wikimedia Global accounts [[User:Ed6767|<span style="font-family:'Roboto',sans-serif;font-weight:300;text-shadow: 2px 2px 10px black;color:black;">Ed</span>]] [[User talk:Ed6767|<span style="color:black;"><strong>talk!</strong></span>]] 20:44, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::Do as Majavah said: Tick the box directly under {{tq|Notify me about these events}}. The box is right under "N" in "Notify". Then save preferences. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 20:49, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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== Partial block settings question == |
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Say, for example, I partial-block a wide IP range from editing some random page (perhaps [[:User talk:PEIsquirrel]]) and also disable account creation. Would this effectively prevent account creation from the IP range but allow anonymous contributors to edit? [[User:Ivanvector|Ivanvector]] (<sup>[[User talk:Ivanvector|Talk]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Ivanvector|Edits]]</sub>) 21:42, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:{{re|Ivanvector}} Yes definitely, with that page being the exception, ofc. --<span style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS',Geneva,sans-serif">[[User:QEDK|<span style="color:#732">qedk</span>]] ([[User talk:QEDK|<span style="color:#732">t</span>]] <span style="color:#000">愛</span> [[Special:Contributions/QEDK|<span style="color:#732">c</span>]])</span> 21:44, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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== Where should instruction pages for gadgets be? == |
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{{Anchor|User:MusikAnimal/confirmationRollback-mobile ... a gadget?}} |
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I assume this would be the right place to ask this: Since this script is in the "Browsing" section on the "Gadgets" tab of "Preferences", specifically the line that says:<blockquote> Require confirmation before performing rollback on mobile devices ([[User:MusikAnimal/confirmationRollback-mobile|documentation]])</blockquote>...Wouldn't that make this page a [[Wikipedia:Gadget|gadget]], and thus should be moved to the "Wikipedia:" namespace? <small>(Pinging [[User:MusikAnimal|MusikAnimal]], obviously.)</small> [[User:Steel1943|<span style="color: #2F4F4F;">'''''Steel1943'''''</span>]] ([[User talk:Steel1943|talk]]) 21:57, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:Doesn't really matter. If MA is the one maintaining it, I don't see a reason that it can't be in their userspace. --[[User:AntiCompositeNumber|AntiCompositeNumber]] ([[User talk:AntiCompositeNumber|talk]]) 22:06, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::What I'm getting at is that from my knowledge, gadgets are not supposed to be in user space since they, in turn, are not available for the community to maintain and are exclusive to the user hosting the script ... making them just regular user scripts and not gadgets. From my perspective, the resolution here would to either move it as stated or remove it from the gadget menu. To compared, when [[Wikipedia:XFDcloser|XFDcloser]] became a gadget, the respective instruction page was moved from [[User:Evad37/XFDcloser]] to [[Wikipedia:XFDcloser]]. The current state of the [[User:MusikAnimal/confirmationRollback-mobile]] makes it seem something got skipped ... either there was no discussion about this script and it was added to the gadget menu ... something is not right. [[User:Steel1943|<span style="color: #2F4F4F;">'''''Steel1943'''''</span>]] ([[User talk:Steel1943|talk]]) 22:13, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::Everything looks proper to me. [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 135#Rollback confirmation]] was the discussion that made this a gadget hosted at VPT as prescribed with a clear consensus for this gadget. The code is also properly hosted in the MediaWiki namespace. I believe moving documentation to Wikipedia space is common, but not required so no actual issue here. --[[User:Trialpears|Trialpears]] ([[User talk:Trialpears|talk]]) 22:19, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::::...That's interesting. But yes, it being "common" is why I see the issue. [[User:Steel1943|<span style="color: #2F4F4F;">'''''Steel1943'''''</span>]] ([[User talk:Steel1943|talk]]) 22:24, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::[[Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_135#Rollback_confirmation|initial announcement and discussion]] [[Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_137#Confirmation_for_rollback_on_touch_devices|gadget creation]]. There's no requirement that gadgets even have documentation, let alone being picky about what namespace it's in. --[[User:AntiCompositeNumber|AntiCompositeNumber]] ([[User talk:AntiCompositeNumber|talk]]) 22:21, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::::...That's bullocks, but it is what it is, even if it doesn't match precedence of the aforementioned situation. [[User:Steel1943|<span style="color: #2F4F4F;">'''''Steel1943'''''</span>]] ([[User talk:Steel1943|talk]]) 22:24, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::{{ping|Steel1943}} The gadget itself isn't in user space. It lives in MediaWiki space at [[MediaWiki:Gadget-confirmationRollback-mobile.js]] like all other gadgets. It's only the documentation that's in user space. [[User:Jackmcbarn|Jackmcbarn]] ([[User talk:Jackmcbarn|talk]]) 22:25, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::::{{Ping|Jackmcbarn}} I get that since it was the same scenario with XFDcloser, even before the instruction page was moved to the "Wikipedia:" namespace. I'm just wondering about, and concerned with, the fact that the placement of the instruction pages are not consistent ... since consistency can help readers locate what they are trying to find here ... [[User:Steel1943|<span style="color: #2F4F4F;">'''''Steel1943'''''</span>]] ([[User talk:Steel1943|talk]]) 22:29, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::::Yeah, I guess that is a good point now that I think about it some more. We probably should move the documentation then. [[User:Jackmcbarn|Jackmcbarn]] ([[User talk:Jackmcbarn|talk]]) 22:30, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::::::I know we don't usually do this with pages in the "User:" namespace, but per the above, since this discussion is starting to go into [[WP:RM]] territory, I'll be placing a move request on [[User talk:MusikAnimal/confirmationRollback-mobile]] here in a few. [[User:Steel1943|<span style="color: #2F4F4F;">'''''Steel1943'''''</span>]] ([[User talk:Steel1943|talk]]) 22:35, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::::::'''Ugh'''! I just completed my RM request for the page, but then found that the {{Tl|Requested move}} template returns an error if it is set up to request moving a page in the "User" namespace. Grand. Either way, for the record, here was the rationale I stated for the move:<blockquote>I do not know of any specific guideline that states the following, but I'm requesting the move for the following reason: In my experiences, most instruction page for [[Wikipedia:Gadget|gadgets]] listed in the "Gadgets" tab of the "Preferences" menu have their instruction pages moved out of the user namespace. And to me, this makes sense for the following reason: If a script's instruction page is in the "Wikipedia:" (or some other non-"User:" namespace), it is a gadget and thus the script can be freely edited and/or maintained by the community, whereas an instruction page in the "User:" namespace is a user script that is supposed to be only edited and maintained by the editor whose user page is the root page of the instruction page. For me, seeing this consistency helps me figure out if the script associated with an instruction page (and, in fact, the instruction page itself) can be modified by the community as a gadget, or restricted to the hosting editor themselves with it being a non-gadget user script. Compare this to what occurred with [[Wikipedia:XFDcloser|XFDcloser]]: At first, it represented a user script as a subpage of [[User:Evad37|Evad37]] at [[User:Evad37/XFDcloser]], but once there was consensus to promote the respective user script to "gadget" status, the script ''and'' the instruction page were moved out of the "User:" namespace, with the script going to the "MediaWiki:" namespace, and the instruction/information page going to the "Wikipedia:" namespace.</blockquote>...I suppose that I'll check with [[User:Wbm1058|Wbm1058]] to see if [[User:RMCD bot|RMCD bot]] would be able to process a move request in the "User:" namespace properly (pinged them on purpose, of course), and then figure out what the next close of action would be. [[User:Steel1943|<span style="color: #2F4F4F;">'''''Steel1943'''''</span>]] ([[User talk:Steel1943|talk]]) 23:09, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::::::::Why wouldn't you wait until the volunteer who spent a long time developing a gadget and its documentation has a chance to respond? [[User:Johnuniq|Johnuniq]] ([[User talk:Johnuniq|talk]]) 23:45, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::::::::Why couldn't they have the opportunity respond in a RM request if they aren't able to do so here in a timely manner? Also, this is more trying to establish a precedence for where gadgets' instruction pages should be, which is exclusive from the instruction page's and gadget's creator. I mean, let's say {{No ping|MusikAnimal}} says something like "No big deal, I'll move it to the "Wikipedia:" namespace"; that doesn't establish precedence or any form of consensus, and such a discussion to determine where gadgets' instruction pages should be located would happen ''again'' at a later time ... when I'm trying to have it now and nip it in the bud. [[User:Steel1943|<span style="color: #2F4F4F;">'''''Steel1943'''''</span>]] ([[User talk:Steel1943|talk]]) 23:59, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::::::::::Some people don't understand common courtesy and the rest of us have to tolerate it, although we don't have to remain silent. [[User:Johnuniq|Johnuniq]] ([[User talk:Johnuniq|talk]]) 00:07, 8 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::::::::::I apologize, but I see your concern as apples and oranges per what I stated above. Sure, it would be nice if MusikAnimal responds on some manner to this, especially since it's a page in their user since, but it's not required per ... everything I have already said. [[User:Steel1943|<span style="color: #2F4F4F;">'''''Steel1943'''''</span>]] ([[User talk:Steel1943|talk]]) 00:10, 8 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::::::::I'm not keen on the idea of this kind of infringement on a user's space. You don't really need to move the documentation; just copy it and give attribution if need be. This is out-of-scope for requested moves – we've already got a big enough backlog with the stuff that's in scope for me to want to add more stuff to it. – [[User:Wbm1058|wbm1058]] ([[User talk:Wbm1058|talk]]) 00:19, 8 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::::::::{{Ping|Wbm1058}} Thanks for your response. I think at this point, I was more or less just seeing if it was technically possible ... and probably not trying to se if I'm actually going to do it or not, as this conversation is going ... [[User:Steel1943|<span style="color: #2F4F4F;">'''''Steel1943'''''</span>]] ([[User talk:Steel1943|talk]]) 01:11, 8 August 2020 (UTC) |
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== Admin highlighter == |
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Does anyone know of a reliable admin highlighting tool? I found [[User:Theopolisme/Scripts/adminhighlighter]], but the <nowiki>{{subst:js|</nowiki> results in an error message at common.js, and I don't want to muck anything up. Also, shouldn't this be a Gadget? Thanks, [[User:Cyphoidbomb|Cyphoidbomb]] ([[User talk:Cyphoidbomb|talk]]) 23:15, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:{{ping|Cyphoidbomb}} That error is just from the code editor, since it's for generic JavaScript and doesn't understand wiki markup. Once you save the page, the [[mw:Pre-save_transforms|PST]] will replace it with valid JavaScript. [[User:Jackmcbarn|Jackmcbarn]] ([[User talk:Jackmcbarn|talk]]) 00:07, 8 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::{{ping|Jackmcbarn}} Ahh, thanks for helping the technologically incompetent! {{P}} [[User:Cyphoidbomb|Cyphoidbomb]] ([[User talk:Cyphoidbomb|talk]]) 00:20, 8 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::Not relevant if you're happy, but FYI there are a handful at [[Wikipedia:User scripts/List#Discussion-oriented]]. ~ <span style="color:#DF00A0">Amory</span><small style="color:#555"> ''([[User:Amorymeltzer|u]] • [[User talk:Amorymeltzer|t]] • [[Special:Contributions/Amorymeltzer|c]])''</small> 00:13, 9 August 2020 (UTC) |
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== Rollback option == |
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Is there an option to turn off and on rollback? I like the privilege of having it. Especially on reverting to another revision. It's useful. But on mobile devices (which I am stuck on for having only for now) it's been an embarrassing mine field ticking bomb lately. I accidentally rollback too much and I kind of panic and undo without explanation sometimes. So when I use mobile devices touch screen I need it off but temporarily if possible. [[User:Jhenderson777|<span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px:color:blue">Jhenderson</span>]]<sup>'''[[User talk:Jhenderson777| <span style="color:red;">7</span><span style="color:blue;">7</span><span style="color:aqua;">7</span>]]'''</sup> 19:52, 8 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:{{u|Jhenderson777}}, You could try [[User:Mr. Stradivarius/gadgets/ConfirmRollback]]. [[User:Adam9007|Adam9007]] ([[User talk:Adam9007|talk]]) 19:58, 8 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:{{ping|Jhenderson777}} You can enable the confirmationRollback-mobile gadget ({{tq|{{int:gadget-confirmationRollback-mobile}}}}) in [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets]] to get a warning before you use it on mobile. [[User:Jackmcbarn|Jackmcbarn]] ([[User talk:Jackmcbarn|talk]]) 20:00, 8 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::Ok I will see what can be done. I just know the “no” button on confirming I want to rollback hardly ever works for me. [[User:Jhenderson777|<span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px:color:blue">Jhenderson</span>]]<sup>'''[[User talk:Jhenderson777| <span style="color:red;">7</span><span style="color:blue;">7</span><span style="color:aqua;">7</span>]]'''</sup> 20:05, 8 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::You may ask at [[WP:PERM/R]] to have the [[WP:ROLLBACK|rollbacker]] right voluntarily revoked; and if you are judged to be in good standing they should reinstate it upon application. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 20:43, 8 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::::To have it revoked though due to a “no” button not doing what it should seems a bit harsh. Definitely when rollback been helpful to undo vandalism etc. [[User:Jhenderson777|<span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px:color:blue">Jhenderson</span>]]<sup>'''[[User talk:Jhenderson777| <span style="color:red;">7</span><span style="color:blue;">7</span><span style="color:aqua;">7</span>]]'''</sup> 21:23, 8 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:{{re|Jhenderson777}} There's also [[User:MusikAnimal/rollbackTouch]] which hides the rollback link on mobile, rather than adding a confirmation. I haven't used it, so I don't know for sure if it works, but it's there. –[[User:Deacon Vorbis|Deacon Vorbis]] ([[User Talk:Deacon Vorbis|carbon]] • [[Special:Contributions/Deacon Vorbis|videos]]) 21:40, 8 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:{{u|Jhenderson777}}, the easiest way to at least hide the rollback link is to edit your common.css and add <code>.mw-rollback-link { display:none }</code> - it works for me on mobile [[User:Ed6767|<span style="font-family:'Roboto',sans-serif;font-weight:300;text-shadow: 2px 2px 10px black;color:black;">Ed</span>]] [[User talk:Ed6767|<span style="color:black;"><strong>talk!</strong></span>]] 22:03, 8 August 2020 (UTC) |
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== PC failure == |
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How did [//en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=China_Anne_McClain&action=history&offset=20200808200000&limit=1 this edit] get automatically accepted? The page is under [[WP:PC1]], and the user isn't autoconfirmed yet. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 20:39, 8 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:The user account was created at 19:56UTC on 4 August so when they made that edit the account was (just) over four days old and had the required number of edits to be pat of the pseudogroup 'autoconfirmed' which is what I understand PC1 checks against. [[User:Nthep|Nthep]] ([[User talk:Nthep|talk]]) 21:17, 8 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::Yep, looks like they were autoconfirmed to me too. 18:56 on August 4 to 19:52 on August 8 is 4 days and 56 minutes, and that was their 15th edit. [[User:Jackmcbarn|Jackmcbarn]] ([[User talk:Jackmcbarn|talk]]) 22:01, 8 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:Given those edits, I'm not entirely sure why mine is the first warning on the user's talk page. Never mind that this smells of permission-gaming, socking, or both. --[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 23:04, 8 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::First? ClueBot NG had {{diff|User talk:Asaju shalom great|prev|971874494|already served one}}, three hours before yours. I didn't escalate it because the edit that I rolled back was made just one minute after ClueBot's warning, so they may not have had a chance to read and understand it. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 09:27, 9 August 2020 (UTC) |
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== Pie chart troubles == |
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{{Pie chart/sandbox |
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| thumb = right |
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| caption = Sample pie chart, using the sandbox of {{tl|pie chart}}. |
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| footer = Note: "Hispanic" refers to Hispanics of any race. All other categories refer to non-Hispanics. |
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| other = |
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| label1 = White |
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| value1 = {{#expr:581<!--Students in category-->*100/1668<!--Total students--> round 1}} |
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| color1 = #20438F |
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| label2 = Hispanic |
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| value2 = {{#expr:294*100/1668 round 1}} |
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| color2 = #CFD2AA |
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| label3 = Asian |
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| value3 = {{#expr:274*100/1668 round 1}} |
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| color3 = #97b1e7 |
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| label4 = Black |
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| value4 = {{#expr:164*100/1668 round 1}} |
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| color4 = #6d723c |
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| label5 = Native American |
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| value5 = {{#expr:8*100/1668 round 1}} |
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| color5 = #f7941d |
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| label6 = Pacific Islander |
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| value6 = {{#expr:6*100/1668 round 1}} |
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| color6 = #ffe121 |
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| label7 = Two or more races |
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| value7 = {{#expr:114*100/1668 round 1}} |
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| color7 = Silver |
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| label8 = International |
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| value8 = {{#expr:187*100/1668 round 1}} |
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| color8 = White |
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| label9 = Unknown |
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| value9 = {{#expr:60*100/1668 round 1}} |
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| color9 = Black |
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}} |
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I'm trying to do a few things with {{tl|pie chart}}, but the documentation is lacking and the code is complex (a lot of it seems to be in some CSS sheet I can't find), so I'm running into issues. Apologies for the multi-pronged question here, but I'm having trouble with each of these: |
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#'''Adding tooltips''': I think it would be a big (hopefully uncontroversial) improvement to the template if hovering the cursor over a slice of the pie would generate a tooltip with the label for that slice. I.e. in the chart at right, hovering over the light blue area would display "Asian (16.4%)". Would someone better at HTML than me be able to look into that at {{tl|pie chart/slice}}? |
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#'''Changing box width''': I'd like to increase the width of the box a little to give me more room for the caption/legend without using up multiple lines. There's a {{para|style}} parameter, but it's undocumented, and using the basic {{para|style|width:300px}} isn't working. ({{para|style|color:red}} did change the caption text color, so it's doing something.) |
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#'''Footer line breaks''': In the chart at right, I'm using a parameter I added to the sandbox to display the footer about Hispanics. This is more subtle, but there's a small extra space below the footer that shouldn't be there, and I can't figure out how to get it to go away without doing [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Template:Pie_chart/sandbox2&type=revision&diff=971934821&oldid=971934238&diffmode=source this], which causes the footer to be squished up against the legend. Here's an example of that: |
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{{collapse| |
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{{Pie chart/sandbox2 |
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| thumb = right |
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| caption = Sample pie chart, using the second sandbox of {{tl|pie chart}}. Note the squished space between the footer and legend but appropriate space below the legend. |
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| footer = Note: "Hispanic" refers to Hispanics of any race. All other categories refer to non-Hispanics. |
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| other = |
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| label1 = White |
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| value1 = {{#expr:581<!--Students in category-->*100/1668<!--Total students--> round 1}} |
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| color1 = #20438F |
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| label2 = Hispanic |
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| value2 = {{#expr:294*100/1668 round 1}} |
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| color2 = #CFD2AA |
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| label3 = Asian |
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| value3 = {{#expr:274*100/1668 round 1}} |
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| color3 = #97b1e7 |
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| label4 = Black |
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| value4 = {{#expr:164*100/1668 round 1}} |
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| color4 = #6d723c |
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| label5 = Native American |
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| value5 = {{#expr:8*100/1668 round 1}} |
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| color5 = #f7941d |
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| label6 = Pacific Islander |
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| value6 = {{#expr:6*100/1668 round 1}} |
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| color6 = #ffe121 |
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| label7 = Two or more races |
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| value7 = {{#expr:114*100/1668 round 1}} |
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| color7 = Silver |
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| label8 = International |
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| value8 = {{#expr:187*100/1668 round 1}} |
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| color8 = White |
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| label9 = Unknown |
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| value9 = {{#expr:60*100/1668 round 1}} |
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| color9 = Black |
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}} |
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}} |
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Could anyone help me with one or all of these things? |
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:I don't really remember, but we have historical records of the configuration going back to 2012. The current system, where logos of each wiki are stored in the configuration, was introduced in 2015 in [[gerrit:c/operations/mediawiki-config/+/209616|change 209616]] and other commits around that time. Wikis had the option to use the locally uploaded Wiki.png as a logo until 2017, when it was removed in [[gerrit:c/operations/mediawiki-config/+/359037|change 359037]]. Alas I don't really know the historical context around these changes, I just found them in the history. [[User:Matma Rex|Matma Rex]] <small>[[User talk:Matma Rex|talk]]</small> 14:13, 23 December 2024 (UTC) |
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By the way, the template has over 3000 transclusions, so if there's not a reason it's being kept at semi-protection, it and {{tl|pie chart/slice}} should probably be template-protected. <span style="color:#AAA"><small>{{u|</small><span style="border-radius:9em;padding:0 5px;background:#088">[[User:Sdkb|<span style="color:#FFF">'''Sdkb'''</span>]]</span><small>}}</small></span> <sup>[[User talk:Sdkb|'''talk''']]</sup> 04:50, 9 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::Thanks. [[User:Janhrach|Janhrach]] ([[User talk:Janhrach|talk]]) 14:17, 23 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:{{ping|Sdkb}} IMO, semi-protection is about right for only 3000 transclusions. Anyway, I have some ideas on how to fix your 3 issues; I'm working on coding them now. [[User:Jackmcbarn|Jackmcbarn]] ([[User talk:Jackmcbarn|talk]]) 05:02, 9 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:So I unsuccessfully tried to get tooltips working in the sandbox. If you hover over your first example now, you'll see tooltips, but they'll be mostly wrong. I think the best course of action is to replace that whole mess of CSS hacks with something based on [[:mw:Extension:Graph]]. [[User:Jackmcbarn|Jackmcbarn]] ([[User talk:Jackmcbarn|talk]]) 05:31, 9 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:Here's a quick proof-of-concept to show that the extension is capable of doing that: <graph>{ |
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"signals": [ |
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{ |
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"name": "tooltipSignal", |
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"init": { |
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"expr": "\"\"" |
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}, |
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"streams": [ |
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{ |
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"type": "@chart:mouseover", |
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"expr": "eventItem().datum.x" |
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}, |
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{ |
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"type": "@chart:mouseout", |
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"expr": "\"\"" |
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} |
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] |
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} |
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], |
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"scales": [ |
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{ |
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"domain": { |
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"data": "chart", |
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"field": "x" |
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}, |
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"type": "ordinal", |
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"name": "color", |
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"range": "category10" |
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}, |
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{ |
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"range": [ |
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0, |
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100 |
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], |
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"type": "linear", |
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"name": "r", |
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"domain": { |
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"data": "chart", |
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"field": "r" |
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} |
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} |
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], |
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"version": 2, |
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"marks": [ |
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{ |
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"name": "chart", |
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"type": "arc", |
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"properties": { |
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"update": { |
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"fill": { |
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"scale": "color", |
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"field": "x" |
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} |
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}, |
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"enter": { |
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"endAngle": { |
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"field": "layout_end" |
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}, |
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"innerRadius": { |
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"value": 0 |
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}, |
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"outerRadius": { |
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"value": 100 |
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}, |
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"startAngle": { |
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"field": "layout_start" |
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}, |
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"stroke": { |
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"value": "white" |
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}, |
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"fill": { |
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"scale": "color", |
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"field": "x" |
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}, |
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"strokeWidth": { |
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"value": 1 |
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} |
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} |
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}, |
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"from": { |
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"data": "chart", |
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"transform": [ |
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{ |
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"type": "pie", |
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"field": "y" |
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} |
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] |
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} |
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}, |
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{ |
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"type": "text", |
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"properties": { |
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"enter": { |
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"x": { |
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"value": -100 |
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}, |
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"y": { |
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"value": -100 |
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}, |
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"align": { |
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"value": "left" |
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}, |
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"fontSize": { |
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"value": 17 |
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}, |
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"fill": { |
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"value": "black" |
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} |
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}, |
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"update": { |
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"text": { |
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"template": "{{tooltipSignal}}" |
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} |
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} |
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} |
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} |
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], |
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"height": 100, |
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"data": [ |
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{ |
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"format": { |
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"parse": { |
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"y": "integer", |
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"x": "string" |
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}, |
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"type": "json" |
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}, |
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"name": "chart", |
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"values": [ |
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{ |
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"y": 100, |
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"x": "A" |
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}, |
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{ |
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"y": 200, |
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"x": "B" |
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}, |
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{ |
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"y": 150, |
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"x": "C" |
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}, |
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{ |
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"y": 300, |
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"x": "D" |
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}, |
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{ |
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"y": 100, |
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"x": "E" |
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}, |
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{ |
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"y": 100, |
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"x": "F" |
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}, |
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{ |
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"y": 150, |
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"x": "G" |
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}, |
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{ |
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"y": 50, |
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"x": "H" |
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}, |
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{ |
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"y": 200, |
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"x": "I" |
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} |
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] |
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} |
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], |
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"width": 100 |
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}</graph> [[User:Jackmcbarn|Jackmcbarn]] ([[User talk:Jackmcbarn|talk]]) 06:18, 9 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::Sigh. Or not. It works in preview but not for real, unlike on mediawiki.org :( [[User:Jackmcbarn|Jackmcbarn]] ([[User talk:Jackmcbarn|talk]]) 06:19, 9 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::Good news: I think once [[phab:T242855]] is done, it'll actually work here, like it does on mediawiki.org. I guess this is on hold until that's done. [[User:Jackmcbarn|Jackmcbarn]] ([[User talk:Jackmcbarn|talk]]) 06:27, 9 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::{{u|Jackmcbarn}}, ack, well, thanks for trying. I noticed on the talk page that there is [[Template_talk:Pie_chart#Extension:Graph_based_template_created|a template that creates a pie chart from mw:Extension:Graph]], but it doesn't look very good—it just outputs an image file, I think, and the image file includes the legend, which presents accessibility and other issues. At [[mw:Extension:Graph#Charts examples]], I notice that it's also able to change color when you hover over a section, which I would love (it doesn't really add much functionality, but it makes it feel a lot more interactive and 2010s rather than 2000s). |
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::: |
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:::Were you or anyone else able to figure anything out regarding the other two issues? <span style="color:#AAA"><small>{{u|</small><span style="border-radius:9em;padding:0 5px;background:#088">[[User:Sdkb|<span style="color:#FFF">'''Sdkb'''</span>]]</span><small>}}</small></span> <sup>[[User talk:Sdkb|'''talk''']]</sup> 08:27, 9 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::::{{ping|Sdkb}} The "just outputs an image file" problem is what I think [[phab:T242855]] will fix. I think I'll be able to fix your other two issues even in the existing template; I'll try to do that later today. [[User:Jackmcbarn|Jackmcbarn]] ([[User talk:Jackmcbarn|talk]]) 16:53, 9 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::::{{ping|Sdkb}} Okay, point 2 is fixed, both in the sandbox and live. You can now pass <tt>radius=150</tt> to get what you want. Still working on point 3. [[User:Jackmcbarn|Jackmcbarn]] ([[User talk:Jackmcbarn|talk]]) 18:12, 9 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::::{{ping|Sdkb}} And point 3 is fixed too in the sandbox, via [[Special:Diff/972030490]]. I think that's it until that Phabricator ticket gets resolved then; let me know if there's anything else I can do. [[User:Jackmcbarn|Jackmcbarn]] ([[User talk:Jackmcbarn|talk]]) 19:45, 9 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::::{{u|Jackmcbarn}}, looks beautiful; thanks so much! I implemented/documented the footer parameter as well. Having this template in better shape is going to be very useful for pretty much every demographics article on Wikipedia, most of which currently still use tables for ethnicity/other types of data. <span style="color:#AAA"><small>{{u|</small><span style="border-radius:9em;padding:0 5px;background:#088">[[User:Sdkb|<span style="color:#FFF">'''Sdkb'''</span>]]</span><small>}}</small></span> <sup>[[User talk:Sdkb|'''talk''']]</sup> 20:44, 9 August 2020 (UTC) |
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== |
== Log out == |
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I keep logging out every time I close the browser on my phone. [[User:Achmad Rachmani|Achmad Rachmani]] ([[User talk:Achmad Rachmani|talk]]) 22:11, 23 December 2024 (UTC) |
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A reader has contacted OTRS through {{OTRS ticket|11450488|2020072010003284}} to advise of issues with OpenStreetMap, for instance [https://tools.wmflabs.org/osm4wiki/cgi-bin/wiki/wiki-osm.pl?project=en&article=California_Historical_Landmarks_in_Kings_County here]. They advise that they can see the location pins but that the map itself renders only as pink squares. They've provided the following element inspect. They're encountered the issue on Chrome, Firefox, and IE. |
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:Do you have some sort of ad blocker or privacy thing enabled that isn't allowing you to save cookies perhaps ? —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 22:15, 23 December 2024 (UTC) |
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{{ping|Dvorapa|Para}} - I believe you're the maintainers. Is there any advice we can provide to the reader? |
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::{{ping|TheDJ}} I have some sort of ad blocker enabled. [[User:Achmad Rachmani|Achmad Rachmani]] ([[User talk:Achmad Rachmani|talk]]) 22:22, 23 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== Cat-a-lot gadget == |
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<syntaxhighlight lang=xml> |
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Hi. To follow up a query [[User:GiantSnowman|a user]] had on my talk page, I wanted to see if there was any way that edits using [[Help:Gadget-Cat-a-lot|Cat-a-lot]] could be marked as minor by default? At present there is now way I am aware of to mark these edits as minor. Alternatively, would there be another way these edits could be filtered out of watchlists? We have a tick box to hide "page categorization", so could they maybe be included in that for example? Thanks. [[User:Jevansen|Jevansen]] ([[User talk:Jevansen|talk]]) 23:42, 23 December 2024 (UTC) |
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[Report Only] Refused to load the script 'https://openstreetmap.org/openlayers/OpenStreetMap.js' because it violates the following Content Security Policy directive: "default-src 'self' 'unsafe-eval' 'unsafe-inline' blob: data: filesystem: mediastream: *.toolforge.org wikibooks.org *.wikibooks.org wikidata.org *.wikidata.org wikimedia.org *.wikimedia.org wikinews.org *.wikinews.org wikipedia.org *.wikipedia.org wikiquote.org *.wikiquote.org wikisource.org *.wikisource.org wikiversity.org *.wikiversity.org wikivoyage.org *.wikivoyage.org wiktionary.org *.wiktionary.org *.wmcloud.org *.wmflabs.org wikimediafoundation.org mediawiki.org *.mediawiki.org wss://tools.wmflabs.org". Note that 'script-src-elem' was not explicitly set, so 'default-src' is used as a fallback. |
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</syntaxhighlight> |
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:[[commons:Help:Gadget-Cat-a-lot#Preferences]] says there's a preference for that, it also shows this image: [[commons:File:2013-03-31-Gadget-Cat-A-Lot-prefscreen.png]]... is that just outdated info? does the interface still look anything like that? |
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Best, <span style="background-color: white">[[User:Darren-M|<span style="color: purple">'''Darren-M'''</span>]] [[User talk:Darren-M|<span style="color: purple">talk</span>]]</span> 12:10, 9 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:Edit: erm, right, [[commons:Help:Gadget-Cat-a-lot#As your user gadget]] also shows how to set preferences with javascript, which I think is what you might have to do if there is no option (due to it not being a gadget on Wikipedia? You installed it as an user script, at least.) – [[Special:Contributions/2804:F14:80DD:5501:947B:8E40:2657:88CF|2804:F1...57:88CF]] ([[Special:Contributions/2804:F14::/32|::/32]]) ([[User talk:2804:F14:80DD:5501:947B:8E40:2657:88CF|talk]]) 02:23, 24 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:{{u|Darren-M}}, I'm unsure about the pink squares, but I know the error you linked to above is related to [[mw:Requests_for_comment/Content-Security-Policy]], and shouldn't cause any issues. [[User:Ed6767|<span style="font-family:'Roboto',sans-serif;font-weight:300;text-shadow: 2px 2px 10px black;color:black;">Ed</span>]] [[User talk:Ed6767|<span style="color:black;"><strong>talk!</strong></span>]] 12:31, 9 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::Aha! The userscript you imported the gadget from ([[User:קיפודנחש/cat-a-lot.js]], you import them [[User:Jevansen/common.js|here]]), manually sets the preference, including a <code>minor: '''false'''</code>! |
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::The above is not an error. It is only an informational warning ("[Report Only]"). It should be unrelated to pink squares. --[[User:AKlapper (WMF)|AKlapper (WMF)]] ([[User talk:AKlapper (WMF)|talk]]) 05:43, 10 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::I'm pretty sure you can overwrite that by just adding a line setting the preference after you import the script, but you could aso just copy their script into your common.js (replacing the import) and change that part to <code>minor: '''true'''</code>, that would also do what you want. – [[Special:Contributions/2804:F14:80DD:5501:947B:8E40:2657:88CF|2804:F1...57:88CF]] ([[Special:Contributions/2804:F14::/32|::/32]]) ([[User talk:2804:F14:80DD:5501:947B:8E40:2657:88CF|talk]]) 02:36, 24 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:::Hi. Thanks for this. I've updated [[User:Jevansen/common.js]], but this doesn't seem to have changes things. Perhaps I've not done it right? [[User:Jevansen|Jevansen]] ([[User talk:Jevansen|talk]]) 21:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::::Then I'm really not sure hm, [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?search=%22window.catALotPrefs%22+intitle%3A%22.js%22&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns2=1 I had tried] looking at how other people did it, like [[User:Roland_zh/common.js]] (which seemed to work: [[Special:Diff/873083270|diff]]), but I'm not really seeing much different? I mean it's set after the import, I guess. Well that and they are importing the gadget two different times, in two different ways... |
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::::I did find [[User:Liz/cat-a-lot.js]], but I cannot confirm that it works, since Liz seemingly never used it. |
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::::If those don't work then I don't know, I'm sorry. Can't test it without an account anyways - maybe someone else will know. – [[Special:Contributions/2804:F14:80BB:6C01:8532:F8A0:9726:F77C|2804:F1...26:F77C]] ([[Special:Contributions/2804:F14::/32|::/32]]) ([[User talk:2804:F14:80BB:6C01:8532:F8A0:9726:F77C|talk]]) 21:27, 24 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::Huh... the script you used was intentionally set to false this year: [[User talk:קיפודנחש/cat-a-lot.js#Minor: false]] |
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:::::Because [[Help:Minor_edit#What_not_to_mark_as_minor_changes|Help:Minor edit]] says adding and removing categories is not a minor edit... – [[Special:Contributions/2804:F14:80BB:6C01:8532:F8A0:9726:F77C|2804:F1...26:F77C]] ([[Special:Contributions/2804:F14::/32|::/32]]) ([[User talk:2804:F14:80BB:6C01:8532:F8A0:9726:F77C|talk]]) 21:40, 24 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::Good find. I have to admit this isn't a guideline I could recall. Think it's generally an accepted practise to mark as minor any automated cat additions done on mass, as long as they're not in contentious topic areas or especially BLP sensitive etc. It was an admin that made this request to me after all. At any rate, you've definitely solved the cause of the issue here. Appreciate your help. [[User:Jevansen|Jevansen]] ([[User talk:Jevansen|talk]]) 01:32, 25 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== Is it unproblematic to use `lang=` spans in section headers? == |
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== In Wikiversity certain combination of letters doesn't work == |
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Of course, I know it's wrong to use templates like {{tlx|lang}} in section headers, but I know anchors work correctly in the transcluded HTML, so is there any reason a header like <code><nowiki>=== <span lang="la">Tu quoque</span> ===</nowiki></code> would break something? <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">[[User:Remsense|<span style="color:#fff">'''Remsense'''</span>]]<span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span>[[User talk:Remsense|<span lang="zh" style="color:#fff">'''论'''</span>]]</span> 16:59, 24 December 2024 (UTC) |
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Good morning, |
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:Considering how {{tls|anchor}} works in section headings, this ''should'' be fine. I tested it in the sandbox and nothing went immediately wrong. [[User:Jlwoodwa|jlwoodwa]] ([[User talk:Jlwoodwa|talk]]) 05:22, 25 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:When considering whether markup is OK in headings, there are several things to check - these include: |
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:{{re|Chomsky}} I can't seem to duplicate your problem there, see [[:v:User:Xaosflux/sandbox]]. This could be an input customization - what is your input language set to? If not English, could you try English? Are you using the source editor or the visual editor? — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 15:34, 9 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:*Whether the heading is actually broken, such as the appearance of the terminal equals signs in the rendered page |
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::Some browser extensions/add-ons will convert certain text strings into an emoticon character, for example <code>:)</code> can become 🙂 - is there an emoticon represented by <code>p=</code>? --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 17:31, 9 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:*Whether inward links work from normal Wikitext |
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:::{{smiley|:P}}. --[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 17:56, 9 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:*Whether inward links work from special pages (e.g. the little arrows in a watchlist) |
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:There may be others. But generally, a {{tag|span}} tag pair is fine. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🦌 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 11:01, 25 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== Question from [[User:Raph Williams65|Raph Williams65]] == |
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== Wrong history merge == |
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Hello everyone, i created my own template — <nowiki>{{Golden Badge Award}}</nowiki>, but it does have documentation, could someone explain to me how i could add documentation in the template. —[[User:Raph Williams65|Raph Williams65]] ([[User talk:Raph Williams65|talk]]) 12:31, 25 December 2024 (UTC) |
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A rejected draft's history has been merged into the history of an article I created. The creator of the draft appears to have created the autopatrolled article even though this is incorrect. The article is [[2020–21 ŠK Slovan Bratislava season]].--[[User:Sakiv|Sakiv]] ([[User talk:Sakiv|talk]]) 18:03, 9 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:This may be easily fixable with the "unmerge" button at [{{fullurl:Special:Log/merge|page=Draft%3A2020–21+ŠK+Slovan+Bratislava+season}} the merge log entry]. If not, then the steps at [[WP:HISTSPLIT]] will be needed. [[User:Jackmcbarn|Jackmcbarn]] ([[User talk:Jackmcbarn|talk]]) 19:50, 9 August 2020 (UTC) |
Latest revision as of 15:22, 25 December 2024
Policy | Technical | Proposals | Idea lab | WMF | Miscellaneous |
If you want to report a JavaScript error, please follow this guideline. Questions about MediaWiki in general should be posted at the MediaWiki support desk. Discussions are automatically archived after remaining inactive for five days.
Frequently asked questions (see also: Wikipedia:FAQ/Technical) Click "[show]" next to each point to see more details.
|
VPNgate blocking bot
[edit]I am seeking consensus on a proposal to develop and deploy a bot to help block VPNgate IP addresses used by a particular WP:LTA. For WP:DENY/WP:BEANS reasons, I cannot provide full details, but users familiar with the LTA in question will understand the context.
Background
[edit]I have tested several VPNgate IPs, and very few of them are currently blocked. According to Wikipedia's policy on open proxies and VPNs (per WP:NOP), these should be blocked. Given the volume of VPNgate IPs, I propose using a bot to automate this process.
This is building off this discussion on WP:BOTREQUESTS.
I am posting here to gauge consensus needed for a WP:BRFA.
Proposal
[edit]I propose a bot to automate blocking these VPNgate IPs using the following steps:
- The bot will use this list provided by VPNgate, which contains OpenVPN configuration files in Base64 format. The provided "IP" value is only the one that your computer uses to talk to the VPN (and sometimes wrong), not the one used for the VPN to talk to Wikipedia/external internet - this requires testing to uncover.
- The bot will iterate through each config file and use OpenVPN to test if it can connect. If successful, it will then use the VPN to send a request to this WhatIsMyIPAddress API to determine the real-world IP address used by each VPN to connect to Wikipedia. This is sometimes the same as the IP used to talk to the VPN - but sometimes completely different, see the demo edit I did using VPNgate on the Bot Requests discussion linked above and I also did one as a reply to this post. Also, testing is needed before blanket blocking because VPNgate claim to fill the list with fake IPs to prevent it from being used for blocking, again see the BR discussion.
Blocking or Reporting:
- If the bot is approved as an admin bot, it will immediately block the identified IPs or modify block settings to disable TPA (see Yamla's recent ANI discussion per the necessity for this) and enable auto block.
- If the bot is not approved to run as an admin bot, it will add the IPs to an interface-protected JSON file in its userspace for a bot operated by an admin to actually do the blocking.
Additional Information
[edit]- I have already developed and tested this bot locally using Pywikibot. I have tested it on a local MediaWiki install and it successfully prevents all VPNgate users from editing (should they not be IP block exempt).
- I’m posting here to gauge broader community consensus beyond the original WP:BOTREQUESTS discussion.
Poll Options
[edit]- Oppose: Object to the bot proposal. Feel free to explain why.
- Support options:
- Admin Bot (admin given code): An admin will run the bot, and I will provide the code for them to run, as well as desired environment setup etc. and will need to send any code changes or packages updates to them to perform. Admin needs to be quite technically competent.
- Admin Bot (admin gives me token): An admin provides me with the bot token (scoped per Anomie below) of a newly created account only for this purpose, allowing me to run the code under myself on Toolforge and fully manage environment setup (needs install and config of multiple python and brew packages not needed for standard pywikibot) as well as instantly deploy any needed code changes or dependency updates without bottlenecks. Admin only needs to know how to use Wikipedia UI and navigate to Special:BotToken, check some boxes, and then submit.
Admin Bot (I run it): For this specific case I am permitted to run my own admin bot.Withdrawn per Rchard2scout and WMFviewdeleted
policy.Bot without Admin Privileges: The bot will report IPs for potential blocking without admin privileges. Not recommended per large volume.Withdrawn per 98 IPs/hour volume, too much for a human admin.- Non-admin bot v2 (preferred by me): My bot, User:MolecularBot is not an admin bot. It can, however, add IP addresses that it finds are the egress of open VPNgate proxies to User:MolecularBot/IP HitList.json (editable only by the bot and WP:PLIERS/interface admins). This means I can run the code for it and manage the complex environment. An admin's bot will be running the uncomplicated code (doesn't require the complex environment and OpenVPN setup for this bot) to just monitor that page for changes and block any IPs added.
Poll
[edit]Oppose for now. From reading that discussion, it looks like the IPs available through the API are only the "ingress" IPs, which is what you connect to on their side when using the VPN (and even then, it seems like the VPN client might sometimes use another IP instead?). If there's actually a publicly available list of outgoing IPs available, I'd be very surprised. From an operational standpoint, those IPs don't need to be public, and if they are, that's a serious error on their side. If we do somehow get our hands on a list, I'd be in favour of option 1. There's plenty of admins available who are able to run bots. --rchard2scout (talk) 08:37, 17 December 2024 (UTC)- Hi rchard2scout, I think you misunderstand the bot. The bot connects to each "ingress" IP and then finds out the "egress" IP that it uses by sending a request to a "what is my IP address API" (not associated with VPNGate in any way), then blocking the egress. This fully disables VPNgate on my local instance of MediaWiki. Thus, a list of egress IPs are not required, because it makes it own by connecting to each of the ingress ones and sending a request. I apologize if my documentation wasn't clear. MolecularPilot 🧪️✈️ 08:44, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- Noting that I currently do have a complete list of "egress" IPs from my local run of the bot, so should I take your vote as a support of option 1 like you stated? Thank you. MolecularPilot 🧪️✈️ 08:45, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- Oops, you're right, I somehow missed this. Hadn't had my first coffee yet ;). Striking, adding new vote.
- That's so fine, my brain is a little laggy in the early morning as well! My technical/documentation writing probably needs some work as well, it's not my best skill (anyone please feel free to edit this post and make it clearer, if it's wrong I'll just fix it). Thank you for your time in reviewing this even though it's still the early morning where you are! :) MolecularPilot 🧪️✈️ 09:38, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- Hi rchard2scout, I think you misunderstand the bot. The bot connects to each "ingress" IP and then finds out the "egress" IP that it uses by sending a request to a "what is my IP address API" (not associated with VPNGate in any way), then blocking the egress. This fully disables VPNgate on my local instance of MediaWiki. Thus, a list of egress IPs are not required, because it makes it own by connecting to each of the ingress ones and sending a request. I apologize if my documentation wasn't clear. MolecularPilot 🧪️✈️ 08:44, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- Support option 1. Options 2 and 3 are probably incompatible with our local and WMF policies, because an admin bot can do anything an admin can do, and you haven't gone through RfA, so you're not allowed access to rights like viewdeleted. Or (@ anyone who know this) are OAuth permissions granular enough that an admin can generate a token that allows a bot access to block but not to other permissions? In any case, I think option 1 is the easiest and safest way, there's plenty of admins available who are able to run bots. --rchard2scout (talk) 08:59, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Rchard2scout, thank you for your new comment and feedback. I hope your morning is going well! Ah yes
viewdeleted
, silly me to forget about that (I have the opposite problem as you before, it is far too late at night where I live!), I do recall it from someone else's declined proposal of admin sortion, I've struck Option 3 now per WMF legal policy. Re OAuth permissions, I know from using Huggle that when you create a bot token there's a very fine grained list of checkboxed for you to tick, and "block" is in fact one of them, so it is that granular as to avoid all other admin perms, I've expanded Option #2 above to clarify this and more circumstances. I do believe this would be my preferred option, per the reasons I've placed in my expansion, but are really happy with anything as long as we can deal with this LTA. Anyway, enjoy your morning! MolecularPilot 🧪️✈️ 11:29, 17 December 2024 (UTC) - There's no grant allowing
block
but no other permissions. The minimum additional admin permissions would beblock
,blockemail
,unreviewedpages
, andunwatchedpages
. Anomie⚔ 12:33, 17 December 2024 (UTC) - Support option 5 as well, and that doesn't even need a BRFA or an RFC. We do then need consensus for the adminbot part of that proposal, so perhaps this discussion can focus on that. --rchard2scout (talk) 10:19, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Rchard2scout, thank you for your new comment and feedback. I hope your morning is going well! Ah yes
- Option 1. I believe this is the only option allowed under policy. Admins need to run admin bots. This RFC is a bit complicated. Usually an RFC of this type would just get consensus for the task ("Is there consensus to run a bot that blocks VPNGate IP addresses?"), with implementation details to be worked out later. –Novem Linguae (talk) 12:09, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- Option 5 is fine if the bot doesn't need to do any blocking and is just keeping a list up-to-date. Don't even need this RFC or a BRFA if you stick the page in your userspace (WP:EXEMPTBOT). –Novem Linguae (talk) 09:50, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'd like to suggest an alternative approach: Write a bot or Toolforge tool that generates a data feed of IP addresses, starting with VPN Gate egress IP addresses, perhaps including the first seen timestamp and last seen timestamp for each egress. The blocking and unblocking portion of the process is relatively simple and a number of administrators could write, maintain, and run a bot that does that. (I suspect most administrators that run bots would prefer to write their own code to do that.) Daniel Quinlan (talk) 23:04, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- Well, I started writing this suggestion before option 5 was added. Since it looks like this is basically the same as that option, put me down as being in favor of Option 5. Daniel Quinlan (talk) 23:15, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- Hahaha, great minds think alike I guess! Thank you for your input. :) MolecularPilot 🧪️✈️ 09:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- Courtesy ping for Rchard2scout and Novem Linguae notifying them of the new preferred option 5 above, which I believe makes everything easier for both myself and the admin who wishes to help me (I'll leave a note on AN asking nicely once BRFA passes for MolecularBot). Also, Skynxnex, you expressed support for option 5 below, did you mean to format that as a support !vote in this section (my apologies for the confusing layout of everything here). Thank you very much to everyone for your time in reviewing this proposal and leaving very helpful feedback. MolecularPilot 🧪️✈️ 09:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- I don't feel like I've thought about the different aspects to do a bolded !vote yet. Skynxnex (talk) 15:07, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- That's so fine, thank you anyway for your feedback! :) MolecularPilot 🧪️✈️ 23:07, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- I don't feel like I've thought about the different aspects to do a bolded !vote yet. Skynxnex (talk) 15:07, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
Discussion
[edit]- Hey, it's me, User:MolecularPilot on VPNgate. This VPN is listed as 112.187.104.70 on VPNgate cause that's what my PC talks to. But, this VPN when talking to Wikipedia, uses 121.179.23.53 as shown which is completely different and not listed anywhere on VPNgate, showing the need for actually testing the VPNs and figuring out the output IPs are my bot does. Can this IP please be WP:OPP blocked? 121.179.23.53 (talk) 06:22, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- Can confirm this is me! :) MolecularPilot 🧪️✈️ 06:24, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- There is a relevant Phabricator ticket: T380917. – DreamRimmer (talk) 12:02, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think non-admins can run admin bots. Perhaps you would like to publicly post your source code, then ask an admin to run it? cc Daniel Quinlan. –Novem Linguae (talk) 12:05, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think blocking a single VPN provider will have the effect people want it to have. It's easy for a disruptive editor to switch VPNs. This is really a problem that needs to be solved by WMF. Daniel Quinlan (talk) 15:45, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Daniel Quinlan, I guess I didn't make this clear enough in the post but this is designed to work with existing WMF proposals that are being worked on. Both T380917 and T354599 block/give higher edit filter scrutiny based on existing lists of "bad" IPs, this is the same as the old ST47ProxyBot (which actually does scanning but doesn't monitor "egress" IPs, it only attempts to connect to the "ingress" and then blocks it if successfully). This is great for a wide variety of proxy services because ingress/egress is the same, but for modern, more advanced services like VPNgate (and perhaps some services that because a problem for us in future) the ingress IP address is often not the same as the one used to edit Wikipedia, and so requires this solution (this bot). I'll admit that blocking VPNgate won't fully stop this LTA or all proxy vandals but VPNgate is quite a large and widely used network (claiming a total of 18,810,237,498 lifetime connections) that is currently almost fully permitted to edit Wikipedia, and by blocking it this significantly reduces the surface area for proxy attacks. This also creates the infrastructure for easily blocking any future VPN services that use different ingress/egress IPs - the bot can be easily expanded to use new lists. MolecularPilot 🧪️✈️ 21:14, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- What is the actual expected volume per day of new IPs to block? It looks like the current list has 98 ingress IPs (if I'm understanding the configuration blocks correctly). I'll also say I have pretty strong concerns about sharing "personal" tokens of any kind between users, particularly admin permission ones with non-admins. Skynxnex (talk) 19:48, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- The list available through this API frequently rotates. It only provides 98 ingress IPs at a time, as you stated and refetching the list without [some duration of time, from my estimates it's around 1 hour] passing returns the same 98 IPs. After 1 hour (estimated) passes, a new 98 IPs are randomly selected to be provided to all users - but these may include some of the same IPs as before because they are picked by random selection from the whole list of 6057 (not available to the public), this has happened a couple times during my data gathering. Therefore re volume per hour, the maximum number of IPs to be blocked is 98, but it could be less due to already blocked IPs being included in that given hour's sample of 98, I hope this makes sense if there's anything that needs clarifying please don't hesitate to ask. MolecularPilot 🧪️✈️ 21:34, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- Re "personal" tokens it's actually not a "personal" token to the admin's account, it would be (in theory) a token to an adminbot account with the only things it can be used for being those helpfully specified by Anomie above. However, regardless I see the concerns so I've added a proposal 5 which hopefully is a decent compromise above and ensures that I don't have access to any admin perms/tokens, but that there aren't any bottlenecks and that admins don't need to setup a complex running environment. Thank you for your time in commenting, Skynxnex. MolecularPilot 🧪️✈️ 22:23, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- I see bot tokens as fairly similar to personal tokens since bots are associated with an operator. I think proposal 5 has promise. Skynxnex (talk) 23:08, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- Re "personal" tokens it's actually not a "personal" token to the admin's account, it would be (in theory) a token to an adminbot account with the only things it can be used for being those helpfully specified by Anomie above. However, regardless I see the concerns so I've added a proposal 5 which hopefully is a decent compromise above and ensures that I don't have access to any admin perms/tokens, but that there aren't any bottlenecks and that admins don't need to setup a complex running environment. Thank you for your time in commenting, Skynxnex. MolecularPilot 🧪️✈️ 22:23, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- VPN Gate claims they have about 6,000 servers which is fairly close to my own estimate of how many IPs they are using. If we block each IP for six months, we'd end up averaging about 33 blocks per day. There would be a pretty large influx at the start, but I would want to spread that out over at least several weeks to avoid flooding the block log as badly as ST47ProxyBot did. Daniel Quinlan (talk) 23:10, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- It's worth noting that an unknown amount of 'servers' are user computers that people have volunteered cpu time for (this information is somewhere on the website), so, like we see often with IP users, the IP that each server uses can and likely will change with time. This doesn't mean that an effort like this bot won't help, of course, but it's unknown how effective (as a percentage) it would be with just 33 blocks a day. – 2804:F1...33:D1A2 (::/32) (talk) 23:47, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- 33 blocks per day is a rough estimate, not a limit. Certainly there will be some delay when adding entries to any list generated as proposed above so the block rate will never reach 100%, but the egress IPs don't seem to change that much over time based on what I've seen. Daniel Quinlan (talk) 00:09, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- So, I'm posting this anonymously through VPNGate because I don't want people to start suspecting me of things just because I admit to having used a VPN service some others are abusing to make disruptive edits here. Due to its strong base in Japan, I've used VPNGate many times in order to shop at Japanese web stores that block purchases from outside Japan (they typically don't want to offer international support and see this as the easiest solution for avoiding that), and I know a number of other people who've used it for similar reasons (also for Korea, which often has even more hosts available than Japan).
- In any case, while I've personally never enabled this on my PC, I can confirm what IP 2804: said: there's definitely a swarm of short-term volunteer IPs associated with this service who aren't part of VPNGate proper. The overlap between such people and good faith Wikipedia editors may not be large, but it's unlikely to be zero. Unless you have a good mechanism to avoid excessively punishing such users for popping up on your list for the short period of time they themselves use the VPN, maybe it's better to wait for and official WMF solution, which (based on the phabs) seems to intend to take "IP reputation" into account and would thus likely exclude such ephemerals, or at least give them very short term blocks compared to the main servers. Because getting blocked here for several months for having been part of VPNGate for a few hours hardly seems fair.
- Actually, now that I think about it: if you're going to connect to VPNGate servers for the express purpose of determining and blocking their exit IPs, you'd probably be in violation of their TOS. While you might consider this an "ends justifying the means" situation, are you sure you want to associate the WMF with such unauthorized usage? There's a difference between port scanning or getting an IP list via an API and actually traversing the VPN in order to investigate it. This absolutely is not a legal threat by me, but if VPNGate were to learn of this, I wouldn't be surprised if they took action. Aren't there enough services out there that provide VPN IP lists without having to roll your own scanner? It would seem a safer bet for the WMF to use something like that. 125.161.156.63 (talk) 16:05, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- Oh, you didn't have to anonymise yourself, we don't cast WP:ASPERSIONS here and now you won't get a reply notification but that's okay! :) I checked the terms of service of their website before making their bot and it just says not to do anything IRL illegal otherwise they'll give your logged data to authorities if subpoenaed, but I will reach out to the VPNgate operators in Japanese (good practice opportunity, huh) when I have time just to double-confirm they're okay with everything. But btw, they encourage checking that your IP has changed to demonstrate it has worked in their how-to-guides, and this isn't 'tranaversing" as we're not collecting data on every single node but only the public IP of the exit node. Re short-term volunteers, that's a great point, and I'll update the JSON schema of its published data to include a "number of sightings" number, so that the blocking adminbot would escalate blocks as this increases so maybe it starts really short term like 2.5 days/60 hours (6000 active volunteers on average, divided by 100 checked every hour, minimum time to ensure the IP has truly stopped) if it's just 1 sighting but ramps up exponentially if it's seen again as an egress IP untill we're talking like 6months - 2 years blocks. Re WMF tickets, the distributed fact of VPNgate that anyone can start hosting means that most VPNgate IP addresses won't have a bad "reputation" (I checked a whole bunch on a variety of reputation lists and the egresses always had "good"" reputations) so reputation checking won't help (but they need short term blocks), also as you can't publically see the egress with VPNgate cause it's different to ingress (unlike most networks). So WMF solutions are actually quite innovative and smart for most VPN/proxy networks, it's just that VPNgate is a bit different needing a unique solution, this bot. MolecularPilot 🧪️✈️ 04:43, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- I guess I'm just too careful or chicken even if most people would refrain from casting aspersions.
- I don't quite understand why you say you're not traversing. You're not just touching the network from one side, you're passing through it and coming out on the other side, that's traversing. However if they don't mind it, then I guess you're in luck. Ecxept maybe if those Japanese laws they mention a mllion times in their documents have a problem with something like this.
- I don't know what the WMF is basing its reputation measurements on. My meaning was that sites like browserleaks.com almost always seem to know about the VPN status of the exit nodes I've used over time. I don't know where they're getting this information from exactly, but that's what I meant by reputation, not whether they're good or bad but what they're known to engage in, like being a VPN node. And that database is probabably built either through collaboration or by specialized services, which the WNF can use as well. Like email providers use common antispam databases instead of each rolling their own.
- In any case, good luck with your bot, because I'm afraid these persistent abusers you want to keep out by this probably won't be averse to paying for commercial VPNs if they have to, and many of those only cost a handful of bucks a month. Commercial companies will almost certainly have a TOS that would prohibit your bot, so to counter them the WMF would in the end still have to resort to a specialist or collaborative VPN IP list of some kind. You can probably cut down on casual troublemakers by tracking VPNGate but I don't think it'll help all that much much against anyone highly motivated. They can even continue using VPNGate, it'll just be less convenient because they have to find brand new nodes before you catch those.
- 92.253.31.37 (talk) 17:39, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not sure what you mean by "Japanese Laws" they keep mentioning they don't seem to mention any, when I told you that the ToS said don't do anything irl illegal I was referring to this ToS page which doesn't mention any "Japanese Laws" but just says don't do anything like CSAM like your government can subpoena us for, because we'll comply (and directions for LEOs to request this). Re reputation yes, the major VPNgate nodes that have done it for a while do have bad reputations, particularly 219.100.37.0/24 which is the example servers run by the university themselves - but as you said, because anyone can start a VPNgate server and then there's always brand new nodes that won't have bad reputations and can be abused. But - as I've stated in a different discussion above, the list of VPN servers to connect to only updates with new servers hourly, so while reputation services won't catch the new exit nodes (because they won't be used poorly enough to trigger flagging for a white), the bot constantly waits for updates to the list and then immediately tests it to determine the new egress IPs. Re commercial services generally, unlike VPNgate, they use datacenters and static IPs that are assigned to "Hotspot Shield, Inc." (as an example) so it's easy to CIDR range block them and also the reputation of those deteriorates over time as they do bad things - the companies don't randomly get new IPs in random locations around the world, like VPNgate. In fact commercial reputation services excel at identifying commercial services (from my testing), but VPNgate is community distributed, like Wikipedia, and needs a unique approach. And yes, as I said to Daniel, I'll admit that blocking VPNgate won't fully stop this LTA or all proxy vandals but VPNgate is quite a large and widely used network (claiming a total of 18,810,237,498 lifetime connections) that is currently almost fully permitted to edit Wikipedia (the bot currently has 146 IPs in its list and as shown by the stats section of the toolforge frontend, ~60% are currently unblocked (and this is an underestimate because the list is mainly the "obvious" ones that are always provided first in the 98 hourly sample, like 219.100.37.0/24. This is because the bot has only had 1 full run of all IPs in a given hour's list, and many failed partial runs of just the first couple. I think blocking VPNgate significantly reduces the surface area for proxy attacks - only looking at only 10 of the blocked IPs I see link spam, edit warring, block evasion, vandalism and our favourite WP:LTA. MolecularPilot 🧪️✈️ 08:38, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- They mention Japanese laws repeatedly in the texts shown when you click the licence and notice buttons under Help > About of the SoftEther VPN Client Manager. It's a canned statement saying they only comply with Japanese laws because they can't possibly follow every law worldwide.
the bot constantly waits for updates to the list and then immediately tests it to determine the new egress IPs
Are you going to run multiple instances of the bot in parallel, because the 98 IP list you get per hour seems far from sufficient for make claims about a strong level of protection if there are ~6000 egresses, many of which churn. With your current setup, an abuser can get their own list refresh, which would be different from what the bot gets, run it past your very helpful :) IP check tool and then make edits from any IP not covered. Which may not be many, but they only need one out of their 98, so it's likely they'll get something as long as the volunteer swarm keeps changing.- Getting a bit more facetious, VPNGate could conversely determine the IP of your bot and block it as a censorship agent. :) I really think it contradicts the spirit of their operation even if they haven't prohibited it explicitly, since you don't happen to be a state agent. This is just my conjecture, but I'm guessing that if you looked at your IP list edits without focusing solely on the abuse, you'd also see constructive edits coming from them, quite possibly from people using VPNGate to bypass state firewalls. I am well aware of Wikipedia open proxy policy, but it can make editing somewhat difficult for such people.
- These remain my two sticking points: while useful, the bot won't be quite as effective as you represent; and you're arguably abusing their service to operate yours.
- Once this bot starts issuing blocks, you should probably amend Help:I have been blocked to include verbiage about having used a VPN in the recent past, because this situation isn't really covered by the "you are using a VPN" or collateral damage statements. 211.220.201.217 (talk) 15:21, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- VPNgate does not have as firm of a ground as you claim. Yes, companies have terms of use and those terms of use often have clauses of disputes being filed in their local country. However, as multiple attourneys have pointed out, this local dispute solving when dealing with an customer from abroad does not really work. In reality, VPNgate is forced to deal with international laws, because otherwise they will just lose their case. (one of the legal opinions supporting this: https://svamc.org/cross-border-business-disputes-company-use-international-arbitration/ )
- As far as blocks go, yes, they could block one user, but let me remind you that there are 120,000 active wikipedia users. The script could just be passed on between users until all of their IP ranges are blocked. They would lose that war, every time. Snævar (talk) 20:11, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- I don't recall claiming anything about firm ground. I have a problem with the WMF or parties associated with it engaging in somewhat questionable practices, even if it is for a good cause. I'm OK with port scanning or getting data from an API, because that's external probing, but actually passing through someone's premises with the intent of later restricting their users is something I find objectionable, and it is my conjecture that VPNGate would think likewise. If VPNGate blocked one user's bot, that would simply be an indication that they object to such activities, and having a million other users on the ready to take over would change nothing about that, and I'm fairly certain the WMF does not subscribe to this sort of hackerish way of thinking anyway. VPNGate aren't outlaws against whom anything goes, they operate a prefectly legitimate service, albeit one that some people abuse. It's also possible that it's just me, and VPNGate themselves have no objection to any of this. The OP was going to ask them, so I presume they'll inform everyone about the response sometime soon. 220.81.178.129 (talk) 11:44, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, this is definitely not something that should be adversarial or "us against them" and if they express concerns about this behaviour, we should totally not try and evade it - after all VPNgate does share our mission of spreading free knowledge to the world (and are very useful to spreading Wikipedia and other websites around the globe, it's just some bad actors taking advantage of the kind service of both the university and the volunteers creating a problem). We just need to find a way to work together to ensure that we both can continue to do our things. Being the holiday season, it's pretty busy for me and I'm sure the same is true for the operators so I will reach out in the new year re their thoughts on this. MolecularPilot 🧪️✈️ 04:45, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- I don't recall claiming anything about firm ground. I have a problem with the WMF or parties associated with it engaging in somewhat questionable practices, even if it is for a good cause. I'm OK with port scanning or getting data from an API, because that's external probing, but actually passing through someone's premises with the intent of later restricting their users is something I find objectionable, and it is my conjecture that VPNGate would think likewise. If VPNGate blocked one user's bot, that would simply be an indication that they object to such activities, and having a million other users on the ready to take over would change nothing about that, and I'm fairly certain the WMF does not subscribe to this sort of hackerish way of thinking anyway. VPNGate aren't outlaws against whom anything goes, they operate a prefectly legitimate service, albeit one that some people abuse. It's also possible that it's just me, and VPNGate themselves have no objection to any of this. The OP was going to ask them, so I presume they'll inform everyone about the response sometime soon. 220.81.178.129 (talk) 11:44, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Hi! The abuser can't get their own list refresh seperate from what the bot sees, I guess I wasn't clear before but what I meant was that everyone gets the same 98 IPs every hour, and then the next hour another 98 are randomly selected to be shown to everyone.
- Re censroship/state agencies this doesn't help state agents or censorship at all, because they want to block the input/ingress IP addresses that citizens would use to connect to the VPN network, and knowing the egress that the VPN network uses to connect to servers doesn't help them at all. I have clarified this in the README.md now so anyone who sees the project will know that it can't be used for censorship.
- Re users bypassing state firewalls, they can still read and if they want to edit we have WP:ACC for that (abusers could go through acc I guess, but then they can't block evade once their account gets indef'ed - and VPNgate has been used a lot by link spammers, people who want to edit war (especially someone who got really upset about castes, I've seen a lot of edit warring from detected IPs about that) to evade the blocks on their main account).
- Btw, thank you for calling my tool helpful, I'm not the best at UI design but I tried to put some effort in and make it looks nice and have useful functions. Thank you to you as well for your time in providing soooo much helpful feedback to make the bot better. :) MolecularPilot 🧪️✈️ 03:52, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Also thanks for reminding me to provide guidance to users on this, I think the current WP:OPP block message doesn't really fit with the VPNgate mode of temporary volunteers (who the user effected might not even know about but could get a dynamic assignment with an IP blocked for a few days). I'll make a custom block template! :) MolecularPilot 🧪️✈️ 03:54, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Tada I guess... {{Blocked VPNgate}} Anyone reading this please feel comfortable to be WP:BOLD and make it better if you'd like, it's still a very early draft. :) MolecularPilot 🧪️✈️ 10:06, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- While tone of you thanks seems to include some aspersions :), you're welcome if what I've said has helped you. If the list is the same for everyone, you can indeed be a lot more effective. My point about censorship was less about you helping state censors and more about you using the loophole that VPNGate haven't said anything about private actors, and giving the impression that abuse is the only thing it is being used for. 220.81.178.129 (talk) 11:39, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Oh no I'm really sad now, please don't take my tone when I thanked you in the wrong way (it can be both hard to express and pick up on the internet)! Maybe saying "sooooo" was a bit over the top, but you've genuinely gone back and forth with me a lot of times and always written detailed, logical suggestions or concerns to help, so genuinely, no sarcasm, thank you!!! :) MolecularPilot 🧪️✈️ 04:41, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- All right then, and sorry about my tendency to lean a bit on the paranoid side. 159.146.72.149 (talk) 09:25, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- That's so fine! :) MolecularPilot 🧪️✈️ 05:00, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- How feasible would it be to make the list of IPs private/admin-only? I mean, they're still going to get blocked, and that's public, but I feel like making a public list, even if one may or may not already exist, might be an unnecessary step?
- If I ran a VPN service I'd be a lot less upset about Wikipedia defending itself than Wikipedia creating a public up-to-date list of VPN IPs that everyone can use, without effort, to mass block most of my VPN. – 2804:F1...57:88CF (::/32) (talk) 02:09, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not really sure, I don't think there's a way to restrict viewing a page on EnWiki (I could whip up a MediaWiki extension enabling "read protection" of a page, but I doubt the WMF would install it), but we do have things like checkuserwiki, arbcomwiki etc. which have limited viewership so prep haps the bot could operate on a new antiabusewiki (but this would require even more work from WMF than installing the extension) and then a stewardbot could issue global blocks from there? I would also have to take down molecularbot2.toolforge.org and the GitHub repo (that anyone could just download code and run it to get their own list). But even if we don't have a list, it's trivial to query the MediaWiki API for block status (that's what the toolforge tool does in addition to seeing if the IP is listed at User:MolecularBot/IPData.json when you lookup an IP or generate stats), there's very high ratelimits for this, and you just need to check if the block reason is {{Blocked VPNgate}} or whatever message the adminbot/stewardbot leaves. MolecularPilot 🧪️✈️ 04:54, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- All right then, and sorry about my tendency to lean a bit on the paranoid side. 159.146.72.149 (talk) 09:25, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Oh no I'm really sad now, please don't take my tone when I thanked you in the wrong way (it can be both hard to express and pick up on the internet)! Maybe saying "sooooo" was a bit over the top, but you've genuinely gone back and forth with me a lot of times and always written detailed, logical suggestions or concerns to help, so genuinely, no sarcasm, thank you!!! :) MolecularPilot 🧪️✈️ 04:41, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Also thanks for reminding me to provide guidance to users on this, I think the current WP:OPP block message doesn't really fit with the VPNgate mode of temporary volunteers (who the user effected might not even know about but could get a dynamic assignment with an IP blocked for a few days). I'll make a custom block template! :) MolecularPilot 🧪️✈️ 03:54, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- They mention Japanese laws repeatedly in the texts shown when you click the licence and notice buttons under Help > About of the SoftEther VPN Client Manager. It's a canned statement saying they only comply with Japanese laws because they can't possibly follow every law worldwide.
- I'm not sure what you mean by "Japanese Laws" they keep mentioning they don't seem to mention any, when I told you that the ToS said don't do anything irl illegal I was referring to this ToS page which doesn't mention any "Japanese Laws" but just says don't do anything like CSAM like your government can subpoena us for, because we'll comply (and directions for LEOs to request this). Re reputation yes, the major VPNgate nodes that have done it for a while do have bad reputations, particularly 219.100.37.0/24 which is the example servers run by the university themselves - but as you said, because anyone can start a VPNgate server and then there's always brand new nodes that won't have bad reputations and can be abused. But - as I've stated in a different discussion above, the list of VPN servers to connect to only updates with new servers hourly, so while reputation services won't catch the new exit nodes (because they won't be used poorly enough to trigger flagging for a white), the bot constantly waits for updates to the list and then immediately tests it to determine the new egress IPs. Re commercial services generally, unlike VPNgate, they use datacenters and static IPs that are assigned to "Hotspot Shield, Inc." (as an example) so it's easy to CIDR range block them and also the reputation of those deteriorates over time as they do bad things - the companies don't randomly get new IPs in random locations around the world, like VPNgate. In fact commercial reputation services excel at identifying commercial services (from my testing), but VPNgate is community distributed, like Wikipedia, and needs a unique approach. And yes, as I said to Daniel, I'll admit that blocking VPNgate won't fully stop this LTA or all proxy vandals but VPNgate is quite a large and widely used network (claiming a total of 18,810,237,498 lifetime connections) that is currently almost fully permitted to edit Wikipedia (the bot currently has 146 IPs in its list and as shown by the stats section of the toolforge frontend, ~60% are currently unblocked (and this is an underestimate because the list is mainly the "obvious" ones that are always provided first in the 98 hourly sample, like 219.100.37.0/24. This is because the bot has only had 1 full run of all IPs in a given hour's list, and many failed partial runs of just the first couple. I think blocking VPNgate significantly reduces the surface area for proxy attacks - only looking at only 10 of the blocked IPs I see link spam, edit warring, block evasion, vandalism and our favourite WP:LTA. MolecularPilot 🧪️✈️ 08:38, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- I guess I'm just too careful or chicken even if most people would refrain from casting aspersions.
- Oh, you didn't have to anonymise yourself, we don't cast WP:ASPERSIONS here and now you won't get a reply notification but that's okay! :) I checked the terms of service of their website before making their bot and it just says not to do anything IRL illegal otherwise they'll give your logged data to authorities if subpoenaed, but I will reach out to the VPNgate operators in Japanese (good practice opportunity, huh) when I have time just to double-confirm they're okay with everything. But btw, they encourage checking that your IP has changed to demonstrate it has worked in their how-to-guides, and this isn't 'tranaversing" as we're not collecting data on every single node but only the public IP of the exit node. Re short-term volunteers, that's a great point, and I'll update the JSON schema of its published data to include a "number of sightings" number, so that the blocking adminbot would escalate blocks as this increases so maybe it starts really short term like 2.5 days/60 hours (6000 active volunteers on average, divided by 100 checked every hour, minimum time to ensure the IP has truly stopped) if it's just 1 sighting but ramps up exponentially if it's seen again as an egress IP untill we're talking like 6months - 2 years blocks. Re WMF tickets, the distributed fact of VPNgate that anyone can start hosting means that most VPNgate IP addresses won't have a bad "reputation" (I checked a whole bunch on a variety of reputation lists and the egresses always had "good"" reputations) so reputation checking won't help (but they need short term blocks), also as you can't publically see the egress with VPNgate cause it's different to ingress (unlike most networks). So WMF solutions are actually quite innovative and smart for most VPN/proxy networks, it's just that VPNgate is a bit different needing a unique solution, this bot. MolecularPilot 🧪️✈️ 04:43, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- It's worth noting that an unknown amount of 'servers' are user computers that people have volunteered cpu time for (this information is somewhere on the website), so, like we see often with IP users, the IP that each server uses can and likely will change with time. This doesn't mean that an effort like this bot won't help, of course, but it's unknown how effective (as a percentage) it would be with just 33 blocks a day. – 2804:F1...33:D1A2 (::/32) (talk) 23:47, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- The list available through this API frequently rotates. It only provides 98 ingress IPs at a time, as you stated and refetching the list without [some duration of time, from my estimates it's around 1 hour] passing returns the same 98 IPs. After 1 hour (estimated) passes, a new 98 IPs are randomly selected to be provided to all users - but these may include some of the same IPs as before because they are picked by random selection from the whole list of 6057 (not available to the public), this has happened a couple times during my data gathering. Therefore re volume per hour, the maximum number of IPs to be blocked is 98, but it could be less due to already blocked IPs being included in that given hour's sample of 98, I hope this makes sense if there's anything that needs clarifying please don't hesitate to ask. MolecularPilot 🧪️✈️ 21:34, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
contentious topics/aware plus "topic code"
[edit]i want to add the contentious topics/aware template to the top of my talkpage, but the list of topic codes says to substitute the template so i did but the israel/palestine topic code did not display. how do i include the topic code? Daddyelectrolux (talk) 19:04, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Daddyelectrolux You don't need to subst that template, you would just do
{{Contentious topics/aware|a-i}}
. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 19:51, 19 December 2024 (UTC)- the topic codes page states that the template should be substituted. perhaps that should be removed, to avoid new people from make my same mistake? thank you User:Ahecht. :) Daddyelectrolux (talk) 00:23, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Daddyelectrolux: You wanted to use Template:Contentious topics/aware which doesn't say to use subst. Template:Contentious topics/table is used to document other templates and it varies whether they require subst. I have added this to the documentation.[1] PrimeHunter (talk) 12:14, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- To be fair, up until yesterday Template:Contentious topics/aware/doc just linked to Template:Contentious topics/table. I updated it so that it properly transcludes the table, which hides the
subst:
syntax. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 15:27, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- To be fair, up until yesterday Template:Contentious topics/aware/doc just linked to Template:Contentious topics/table. I updated it so that it properly transcludes the table, which hides the
- @Daddyelectrolux: You wanted to use Template:Contentious topics/aware which doesn't say to use subst. Template:Contentious topics/table is used to document other templates and it varies whether they require subst. I have added this to the documentation.[1] PrimeHunter (talk) 12:14, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- the topic codes page states that the template should be substituted. perhaps that should be removed, to avoid new people from make my same mistake? thank you User:Ahecht. :) Daddyelectrolux (talk) 00:23, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
Site is under maintenance
[edit]I was unable to complete an edit a few minutes ago. I got an error message saying the site was under maintenance. Clicking on "back" did get me the edit I was trying to make and a few seconds later I was successful.
I posted just for documentation but I am having difficulty with a site that is very slow and I came here to do an edit to have something to do while waiting for pages on that slow site to come up. The slow site slows everything else down.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 21:21, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
Blacklisted website not on any blacklist
[edit]I wanted to save an edit containing a link to tradingview.com but it keeps showing a message:
"Your edit was not saved because it contains a new external link to a site registered on Wikipedia's blacklist or Wikimedia's global blacklist. [...] The following link has triggered a protection filter: tradingview.com [...]"
So I tried to figure out whether I shouldn't use that website as a source and on what blacklist that website is supposed to be but I couldn't find anything. Is that a bug? Killarnee (talk) 14:18, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- It's on the global blacklist at meta:Spam blacklist. Anomie⚔ 14:29, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah. It was added in October 2017. See the request and link report. – Daℤyzzos (✉️ • 📤) Please do not ping on reply. 14:44, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- Hm now I found it too, somehow the find tool in Safari wasn't able to find it. Thanks you both. Looks like I have to search for another source. Killarnee (talk) 14:58, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
When I try to view this special page I just get the following error:
[8f6642e6-42f2-4bba-8e7d-01bac9220c2f] 2024-12-21 18:40:02: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\RequestTimeout\RequestTimeoutException"
Is anyone else getting this error when viewing that page? Thanks. 2A0E:1D47:9085:D200:E9BC:B9ED:405A:596B (talk) 18:42, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- It works now. Problems come and go. I had to restart my phone half an hour ago to get something to work. Extra: That was a problem with an app on my phone (nothing to do with Wikipedia). Johnuniq (talk) 03:10, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- I see a similar error when I try to check logs for Special:Log/ProcseeBot. [1d666f00-ed84-4e73-928d-04edc6edc844] 2024-12-22 10:33:05: Fatal exception of type 'Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBQueryTimeoutError'. – DreamRimmer (talk) 10:39, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Likely also worth noting that, above the error, it says
To avoid creating high database load, this query was aborted because the duration exceeded the limit.
Though I suppose that's the definition of a timeout... – Daℤyzzos (✉️ • 📤) Please do not ping on reply. 15:43, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Likely also worth noting that, above the error, it says
- Tracked at phab:T325062. – DreamRimmer (talk) 18:00, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
Colors of images in {{Infobox government agency}} are inverted in the dark mode
[edit]When the {{Infobox government agency}} template is included into some page, SVG images inside it have their colors inverted if the dark mode is on. See, for example, the article United States Department of State, specifically the seal: it should have dark blue outter ring, white inner circle with a brown eagle, but instead you can see the seal with a bluish-white outter ring, black inner circle with an orange eagle. Looked at several other infobox templates, none of them have a simmilar issue. Also, only vector images are affected by this, raster images are not. I wanted to try to debug it, but the template is fully protected. Tohaomg (talk) 17:30, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Tohaomg it's most likely this edit by @Jonesey95: that has introduced the behaviour. Probably best discussed at Template talk:Infobox government agency. Nthep (talk) 18:04, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- See the previous discussion. A more comprehensive fix is welcome. The sandbox is open for anyone to edit. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:57, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- This is not an acceptable solution, please revert. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 20:52, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- The reason skin-invert worked for signatures was that white writing paper is common and even though colors in pens is varied, the most commonly used ones are dark.
- Logos are not created on the basis of a palette of colors, unlike signatures. Logos are created to be visible and understandable from far away and close up. As such, they should not be inverted at large.
- I consider the edit request in the template to be unactionable, as it did not ask for any particular solution, not even a hint at one. Snævar (talk) 23:24, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not sure why people are continuing to reply here. This discussion will be lost in the archives of VPT; please post at the template talk page with comments, suggestions, proposed fixes, or requests. – Jonesey95 (talk) 06:00, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Jonesey95: I am not buying that argument for one second, also you are refusing to talk about the issue itself. Stop this bureaucratic nonsense. Most issues are solved during discussion not after, it being "lost in the archive" is a non starter as an argument. Clearly neither myself or Sjoerddebruin are going to move this discussion to the template talk page. If you continue attempting to refrain from discussing about the issue itself, consider this your first warning. I would also like to voice my disappointment of how you are handling this, I do expect better than this. Snævar (talk) 09:24, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Responding like this and bypassing the instructions that are clearly indicated at the top of the template page is really something, especially with an unsure edit summary. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 09:32, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- I wasn't discussing the issue here because of WP:MULTI. See the template's talk page for further discussion. I have reverted the change and continue to welcome a better way to fix the problem that was identified and that is still present. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:55, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Responding like this and bypassing the instructions that are clearly indicated at the top of the template page is really something, especially with an unsure edit summary. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 09:32, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Jonesey95: I am not buying that argument for one second, also you are refusing to talk about the issue itself. Stop this bureaucratic nonsense. Most issues are solved during discussion not after, it being "lost in the archive" is a non starter as an argument. Clearly neither myself or Sjoerddebruin are going to move this discussion to the template talk page. If you continue attempting to refrain from discussing about the issue itself, consider this your first warning. I would also like to voice my disappointment of how you are handling this, I do expect better than this. Snævar (talk) 09:24, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not sure why people are continuing to reply here. This discussion will be lost in the archives of VPT; please post at the template talk page with comments, suggestions, proposed fixes, or requests. – Jonesey95 (talk) 06:00, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- See the previous discussion. A more comprehensive fix is welcome. The sandbox is open for anyone to edit. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:57, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
Historical use of File:Wiki.png as the top-left logo
[edit]I wonder if anybody remembers some technical details of the use of File:Wiki.png for the logo in the top-left corner during the 2000s (not limited to enwiki). This discussion led me to asking this. I found some clues on Commons – quoting myself from the aforementioned discussion:
The log for File:Wiki.png shows two interesting entries:
- protection, 11 July 2005:
it's the sitewide logo in the upper left corner. Very bad if it were to get vandalized.- deletion, 7 October 2005:
block upload of local logos for other wikis. Commons now uses Image:Wiki-commons.png as the site-wide logo. See also Template:Deletion_requests#Image:Wiki.png.commons:Commons:Deletion_requests/Archive/2005/09#Image:Wiki.png is also interesting. [...]:
Image:Wiki.png should be moved to a different name (already re-created at Image:Wiki-commons.png) as it currently is aliasing that name on every wiki project and therefore not allowing local logos on those projects. Tim has already changed the logo location, so it shouldn't break the commons logo, but we should wait about a week before moving it to give time for the caches to update. The logo is now hardcoded so there is no need to protect this specific image.
Does anybody remember any further details?
Thanks, Janhrach (talk) 20:59, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- I don't really remember, but we have historical records of the configuration going back to 2012. The current system, where logos of each wiki are stored in the configuration, was introduced in 2015 in change 209616 and other commits around that time. Wikis had the option to use the locally uploaded Wiki.png as a logo until 2017, when it was removed in change 359037. Alas I don't really know the historical context around these changes, I just found them in the history. Matma Rex talk 14:13, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks. Janhrach (talk) 14:17, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Log out
[edit]I keep logging out every time I close the browser on my phone. Achmad Rachmani (talk) 22:11, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Do you have some sort of ad blocker or privacy thing enabled that isn't allowing you to save cookies perhaps ? —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 22:15, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- @TheDJ: I have some sort of ad blocker enabled. Achmad Rachmani (talk) 22:22, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Cat-a-lot gadget
[edit]Hi. To follow up a query a user had on my talk page, I wanted to see if there was any way that edits using Cat-a-lot could be marked as minor by default? At present there is now way I am aware of to mark these edits as minor. Alternatively, would there be another way these edits could be filtered out of watchlists? We have a tick box to hide "page categorization", so could they maybe be included in that for example? Thanks. Jevansen (talk) 23:42, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- commons:Help:Gadget-Cat-a-lot#Preferences says there's a preference for that, it also shows this image: commons:File:2013-03-31-Gadget-Cat-A-Lot-prefscreen.png... is that just outdated info? does the interface still look anything like that?
- Edit: erm, right, commons:Help:Gadget-Cat-a-lot#As your user gadget also shows how to set preferences with javascript, which I think is what you might have to do if there is no option (due to it not being a gadget on Wikipedia? You installed it as an user script, at least.) – 2804:F1...57:88CF (::/32) (talk) 02:23, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Aha! The userscript you imported the gadget from (User:קיפודנחש/cat-a-lot.js, you import them here), manually sets the preference, including a
minor: false
! - I'm pretty sure you can overwrite that by just adding a line setting the preference after you import the script, but you could aso just copy their script into your common.js (replacing the import) and change that part to
minor: true
, that would also do what you want. – 2804:F1...57:88CF (::/32) (talk) 02:36, 24 December 2024 (UTC)- Hi. Thanks for this. I've updated User:Jevansen/common.js, but this doesn't seem to have changes things. Perhaps I've not done it right? Jevansen (talk) 21:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Then I'm really not sure hm, I had tried looking at how other people did it, like User:Roland_zh/common.js (which seemed to work: diff), but I'm not really seeing much different? I mean it's set after the import, I guess. Well that and they are importing the gadget two different times, in two different ways...
- I did find User:Liz/cat-a-lot.js, but I cannot confirm that it works, since Liz seemingly never used it.
- If those don't work then I don't know, I'm sorry. Can't test it without an account anyways - maybe someone else will know. – 2804:F1...26:F77C (::/32) (talk) 21:27, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Huh... the script you used was intentionally set to false this year: User talk:קיפודנחש/cat-a-lot.js#Minor: false
- Because Help:Minor edit says adding and removing categories is not a minor edit... – 2804:F1...26:F77C (::/32) (talk) 21:40, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Good find. I have to admit this isn't a guideline I could recall. Think it's generally an accepted practise to mark as minor any automated cat additions done on mass, as long as they're not in contentious topic areas or especially BLP sensitive etc. It was an admin that made this request to me after all. At any rate, you've definitely solved the cause of the issue here. Appreciate your help. Jevansen (talk) 01:32, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
- Hi. Thanks for this. I've updated User:Jevansen/common.js, but this doesn't seem to have changes things. Perhaps I've not done it right? Jevansen (talk) 21:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Aha! The userscript you imported the gadget from (User:קיפודנחש/cat-a-lot.js, you import them here), manually sets the preference, including a
Is it unproblematic to use `lang=` spans in section headers?
[edit]Of course, I know it's wrong to use templates like {{lang}}
in section headers, but I know anchors work correctly in the transcluded HTML, so is there any reason a header like === <span lang="la">Tu quoque</span> ===
would break something? Remsense ‥ 论 16:59, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Considering how {{subst:anchor}} works in section headings, this should be fine. I tested it in the sandbox and nothing went immediately wrong. jlwoodwa (talk) 05:22, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
- When considering whether markup is OK in headings, there are several things to check - these include:
- Whether the heading is actually broken, such as the appearance of the terminal equals signs in the rendered page
- Whether inward links work from normal Wikitext
- Whether inward links work from special pages (e.g. the little arrows in a watchlist)
- There may be others. But generally, a
<span>...</span>
tag pair is fine. --Redrose64 🦌 (talk) 11:01, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Question from Raph Williams65
[edit]Hello everyone, i created my own template — {{Golden Badge Award}}, but it does have documentation, could someone explain to me how i could add documentation in the template. —Raph Williams65 (talk) 12:31, 25 December 2024 (UTC)