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:I disagree. To parrot what I said on another discussion, I think displaying election results has encyclopedic value and can provide insight into the demographics of the town and how the party politics of an area have changed over time. While I have no problem with adding additional lists for state and local leaders, I think at the very least showing historic presidential election results as an umbrella for the political leanings of a settlement is valuable and worth keeping. I don't think we should disregard the data because it is "ugly", simply make the tables collapsible but available for those who want it. [[User:Mbdfar|Mbdfar]] ([[User talk:Mbdfar|talk]]) 18:44, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
:I disagree. To parrot what I said on another discussion, I think displaying election results has encyclopedic value and can provide insight into the demographics of the town and how the party politics of an area have changed over time. While I have no problem with adding additional lists for state and local leaders, I think at the very least showing historic presidential election results as an umbrella for the political leanings of a settlement is valuable and worth keeping. I don't think we should disregard the data because it is "ugly", simply make the tables collapsible but available for those who want it. [[User:Mbdfar|Mbdfar]] ([[User talk:Mbdfar|talk]]) 18:44, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
:: It can provide insight ''in the presence of proper sources that provide analysis and interpretation of the raw data''. Find those sources and the objections go away. Without those sources, this is an unencyclopedic data-dump. --[[User:JayBeeEll|JBL]] ([[User_talk:JayBeeEll|talk]]) 20:40, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
:: It can provide insight ''in the presence of proper sources that provide analysis and interpretation of the raw data''. Find those sources and the objections go away. Without those sources, this is an unencyclopedic data-dump. --[[User:JayBeeEll|JBL]] ([[User_talk:JayBeeEll|talk]]) 20:40, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
:::{{reply to|JayBeeEll}} I guess I just don't understand why we need secondary interpretations of this data. We don't ask that of historical population numbers, do we? AFAIK just citing the census is considered fine. [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Cities/US_Guideline#Demographics|WP:USCITIES#Demographics]] doesn't state the need for secondary sources, just a description of the data. [[WP:INDISCRIMINATE]] does address "Excessive listings of unexplained statistics", but also just states the need for accompanying text (I wouldn't call the present listing "excessive" anyway). I guess the question that remains in my mind is; is it possible to include explanatory text providing context to this information using only primary sources? [[User:Mbdfar|Mbdfar]] ([[User talk:Mbdfar|talk]]) 21:48, 6 March 2021 (UTC)


Election results, particularly for more than one election, provides valuable insight to a community, its values, and is certainly as important, probably even more, than racial demographics of a community, which is already included. Counties on Wikipedia have their election results shown and an entire county is incredibly vague on what that signifies for values. Secondary sources are literally in my posts directly from the Secretary of State Office. You can not get any more direct sourcing than that. The table is collapsible and if a person does not care to see it they do not have to. Recent political leanings are certainly more important than a historical event that occurred in a community 100 year ago. [[User:Lakeperson|Lakeperson]] ([[User talk:Lakeperson|talk]]) 18:52, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
Election results, particularly for more than one election, provides valuable insight to a community, its values, and is certainly as important, probably even more, than racial demographics of a community, which is already included. Counties on Wikipedia have their election results shown and an entire county is incredibly vague on what that signifies for values. Secondary sources are literally in my posts directly from the Secretary of State Office. You can not get any more direct sourcing than that. The table is collapsible and if a person does not care to see it they do not have to. Recent political leanings are certainly more important than a historical event that occurred in a community 100 year ago. [[User:Lakeperson|Lakeperson]] ([[User talk:Lakeperson|talk]]) 18:52, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Revision as of 21:48, 6 March 2021

WikiProject iconMinnesota B‑class Mid‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Minnesota, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Minnesota on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MinnesotaWikipedia:WikiProject MinnesotaTemplate:WikiProject MinnesotaMinnesota
BThis article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
MidThis article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconCities B‑class
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Cities, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of cities, towns and various other settlements on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CitiesWikipedia:WikiProject CitiesTemplate:WikiProject CitiesWikiProject Cities
BThis article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.


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Presidential election table

@Lakeperson and Sbmeirow: The presidential election table adds undue weight. The table features only one level of government, and avoids state and local leaders. The table is out-of-scope and overly detailed, and is not suggested at WP:USCITIES. Magnolia677 (talk) 11:23, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Magnolia677. The table as presented is ugly, it is a data-dump with no accompanying text to put it in appropriate context (presumably because no secondary sources exist), and the idea that the politics of a town are best best discussed in terms of presidential election results are highly dubious at best. --JBL (talk) 13:47, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree. To parrot what I said on another discussion, I think displaying election results has encyclopedic value and can provide insight into the demographics of the town and how the party politics of an area have changed over time. While I have no problem with adding additional lists for state and local leaders, I think at the very least showing historic presidential election results as an umbrella for the political leanings of a settlement is valuable and worth keeping. I don't think we should disregard the data because it is "ugly", simply make the tables collapsible but available for those who want it. Mbdfar (talk) 18:44, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It can provide insight in the presence of proper sources that provide analysis and interpretation of the raw data. Find those sources and the objections go away. Without those sources, this is an unencyclopedic data-dump. --JBL (talk) 20:40, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@JayBeeEll: I guess I just don't understand why we need secondary interpretations of this data. We don't ask that of historical population numbers, do we? AFAIK just citing the census is considered fine. WP:USCITIES#Demographics doesn't state the need for secondary sources, just a description of the data. WP:INDISCRIMINATE does address "Excessive listings of unexplained statistics", but also just states the need for accompanying text (I wouldn't call the present listing "excessive" anyway). I guess the question that remains in my mind is; is it possible to include explanatory text providing context to this information using only primary sources? Mbdfar (talk) 21:48, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Election results, particularly for more than one election, provides valuable insight to a community, its values, and is certainly as important, probably even more, than racial demographics of a community, which is already included. Counties on Wikipedia have their election results shown and an entire county is incredibly vague on what that signifies for values. Secondary sources are literally in my posts directly from the Secretary of State Office. You can not get any more direct sourcing than that. The table is collapsible and if a person does not care to see it they do not have to. Recent political leanings are certainly more important than a historical event that occurred in a community 100 year ago. Lakeperson (talk) 18:52, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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