Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2007 February 7

7 February 2007

JewsDidWTC

JewsDidWTC (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|AfD)

This article was speedy deleted right after being created based on the conclusion of a previous deletion review about the GNAA article. The GNAA article was not reinstated because the consensus was that one notable action does not necessarily make a group notable. There seemed to be some confusion about the CNN spot, though- to be clear, all the still images that CNN used in that six-minute segment were cribbed from jewsdidwtc.com. Under standard notability rules, having a CNN segment almost entirely about a website makes that website notable- especially considering the journalistic implications of not verifying if a website being quoted is for real, or not caring. So while the consensus was that the GNAA itself is not notable for having produced jewsdidwtc.com, I still think that jewsdidwtc.com is itself now notable under Wikipedia policy. The CNN segment is available on youtube here. Compare with the fan art section of jewsdidwtc.com, and see for yourself. Fellacious 01:21, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Keep deleted without predjudice - there's almost certainly an article to be written here, but the deleted article isn't it. Phil Sandifer 01:29, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Any suggestions to improve it? I wrote that article quickly because I thought it should be written, after my suggestion to reinstate the GNAA article was denied- as I recall, JewsDidWTC used to be a redirect to Gay Nigger Association of America. The person who tagged it for speedy deletion was probably right that I was too harsh on the issue, and I was definitely focusing too much on the CNN segment and not on the ostensible topic of the article. Suggestions and even rewrites are welcome- I'm not suggesting that my prose is sacred and I have been personally violated by its deletion. Fellacious 01:42, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Cyrus Farivar

A notification, rather than a request, but I'm not sure where else to put it. I am undeleting Cyrus Farivar as per Jimbo's previous endorsement of exactly this act: "Even if VfD _did_ produce a consensus that this article should be deleted, then VfD is broken and should be ignored." [1]. User:Jaranda expressed concern that this was not brought to DRV, so I figured I should leave notice here (and also on WP:AN before restoring it again. I will not continue to restore at this point, but I will bring the issue through proper dispute resolution channels should it continue to be an issue.

I am not asking for or opening a full review because, well, it's unnecessary and beside the point. DRV is a process through which we review deletions, but it is not the sole way in which they are reviewed. This is something that there is a definitive ruling on - journalists with the publication record of Cyrus Farivar are notable. Small segments of the community may create pages that proport to establish other criteria for notability, and AfDs can fail to attract the attention of anything but the mindset that currently dominates the page, but none of this changes the basic fact that a notability guideline of that extremity has been actively rejected from the very top, and the act of unilaterally restoring this article has explicitly been sanctioned.

This ought not only terminate the debate, but also serve as a rather sobering warning about the sad state of so-called policy on Wikipedia, whereby it clearly does not provide useful guidance on our actual best practice. Phil Sandifer 01:11, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

MSK-008_Dijeh

MSK-008_Dijeh (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|AfD)

Several articles were listed in this AfD at once; let it be said that I am contesting the outcome of the deletion of the MSK-008_Dijeh and RMS-106_Hi-Zack; the other articles were indeed unsourced and with little or no real world impact that I could ascertain. Anyway. These articles were nominated for deletion due to being "unsourced and non-notable fancruft with original research". Upon discovering this AfD, I have sourced the relevant articles including specific citations of "original research" from official or semi-official sources (quite excessively, I might add) and was presently re-writing the jumbled text of the article itself when it was summarily deleted. I and others in favor of keeping the article believe that our rationale were given no weight or ignored entirely. This is demonstrated by the deletion of the article despite the original AfD criteria no longer being relevant, as well as the fact that apparently I and the other "keep" votes were "members of the project." I presume this is in reference to Wikipedia:WikiProject_Gundam, which I am not a member of. Furthermore, I was not aware that being in a WikiProject, for whatever reason, was grounds for having one's rationale in an AfD debate be discarded. This AfD was conducted as a head count, and nothing more.MalikCarr 01:05, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

• Overturn I pretty much agree with this. I helped provide some sourcing to two of the articles, which was objected to despite the fact that they followed the correct policies for such things as far as I can tell. When User:Malikcarr provided some examples of many other articles that have similar sourcing, his argument was simply brushed aside. Furthermore, I would like to point out that fancruft is an essay and not a policy, and thus is not a valid reason for nominating anything for deletion. Jtrainor 01:10, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

• Overturn I was actually putting up my own entry on this for this, but you beet me to it. The reasoning that the closing admin used has me troubled. It appears that he discounted all of the keep or merge comments because they were from members of WP:GUNDAM. Why should comments from a WikiProject be discounted so long as they give solid arguments? At best, this appears to be to be a no consensus once the WP:GUNDAM comments are taken into account. --Farix (Talk) 01:11, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

• Overturn I agree as well. The Dijeh and Hi-Zack are both intrinsic parts of the Zeta Gundam universe that have been fleshed out to extreme detail by the developers of the show, through liscences with video game corporations and technical manuals of Bandai produced model kits. There is plenty of reliable information and source material for these particular articles, and the only real argument against it could possibly be that it is taking too much attention to detail, and is unnecessary. This line of reasoning might as well say that individual articles on breeds of dogs are unnecessary, and that there should only be a central article on dog breeding on wikipedia. That is silly, and so is deleting these articles.149.142.119.170 01:23, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment Deletion Review isn't a reargument of the AFD, but whether the closing admin reached the proper conclusion based on the comments of the AFD. If you read the comments above, you will see how we are disputing the reasoning the admin used in closing the AFD and not with the reasons behind the AFD. --Farix (Talk) 01:28, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

• Endorse perfectly reasonable closure. I didn't see any of the keep voters bringing forth multiple non-trivial published works about the "ENG-001 Estardoth" - because there aren't any. Now, without re-arguing the deletion debate, either point to such evidence having been presented, or just accept the deletion. - Tragic Baboon (banana receptacle) 02:03, 7 February 2007 (UTC)