Talk:Perpetual stew

IT'S A FAAAAAAAAAAKE!!!!

This whole entire article (and its "sources") are based on some nostalgic fantasy scenario written in a cookbook from the 70's. Typical Wikipedia quality control!

First off: Maintaining a roiling fire 24/7 in the middle ages would have been prohibitively expensive, negating any alleged "economic advantage".

Secondly: They would have had to replenish the water constantly. Potable water was a precious commodity in the middle ages.

Thirdly: Doing so would have killed any flavor and/or nutritional content that the stew had making it a chunky(fat) gross flavorless mess.

Fourthly: The temperature would need to be closely monitored to ensure that not even a little part of the "stew" gets colonized by potentially deadly bacteria. Additionally, acid and salt levels would have to be monitored and kept HIGH, in order to prevent heat-resistant bacteria from colonizing the stew. THE TECHNOLOGY TO DO THIS DID NOT EXIST IN THE MIDDLE AGES.

FINALLY: Any such concoction, even if it wasn't dangerous, would be so completely disgusting that patrons of these hypothetical medieval "Inns" would prefer literally anything else to eat. They wouldn't pay for it. It would smell like corpses and shit. Even the YouTube influencers who tried this admit that, while they didn't die from eating this, that it was ABSOLUTELY VILE. Yet this article acts like EVERYBODY ate this shit!

I've seen this article cited DOZENS of times and it's complete, absolute horseshit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:2C6:4B81:FCD0:DC03:7D:5A68:F925 (talk) 04:01, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

A note

There is a bar in Tucson, AZ, which is supposed to be the oldest bar in the city, that apparently has a perpetual stew that has been going for a VERY long time. If we can find out the particulars and a source, this might be good as an example. ike9898 16:48, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

thanks for a warning. Next time I am in Tucson AZ I'll be very very careful. 46.138.94.67 (talk) 10:48, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and drink Tagging

This article talk page was automatically added with {{WikiProject Food and drink}} banner as it falls under Category:Food or one of its subcategories. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. The bot was instructed to tagg these articles upon consenus from WikiProject Food and drink. You can find the related request for tagging here . If you have concerns , please inform on the project talk page -- TinucherianBot (talk) 12:58, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Perpignan Stew?

The line about there being a stew brewing in Perpignan from the 15th century til WWII seems poorly supported. It only has one source, and is mentioned only in passing. Does anyone have any other sources for this, or for any verified stews that are or were hundreds of years old? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2407:7000:9B93:1A00:1919:2B95:648B:D076 (talk) 22:25, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Source claiming that these things may not have actually existed

https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/perpetual-stew-history-recipes-myth

©Geni (talk) 08:16, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

Reguarding the section about Annie Rauwerda's perpetual stew

In my opinion a few things should be changed here but I may be wrong.

Firstly, her content isn't only (or even mostly) from Tiktok, as she also posts on Instagram and Twitter (especially on the Depths of Wikipedia account, which is what brought my attention to the whole thing to begin with). Maybe a different description should be used instead of "Tiktok creator".

Secondly, while the meetings were held in Bushwick, most (or at least a lot) of the people who joined the meetups weren't necessarily residents living nearby, but people who read about the meetups from the aforementioned social media accounts she has, so that should probably be clarified in the article.

Lastly, since there are so many posts and pictures of these meetups on social media (or at least in comparison to everything else here in the article), perhaps some of them could be used for either citations or as photos for the article itself. I'm a little new to Wikipedia so I'm not sure if the social media posts would count as a reliable source, but I think it should be considered. Horizon206 (talk) 05:44, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia! I'm pretty new myself by the site's standards, haha! Anyhow, there's already a note about it in the "Examples" section about her, which I think succinctly summarizes the current. Specifically, it discusses the event being publicized on TikTok (rather than listing her as a TikTok creator) as well as being localized in Bushwick. Also, in my opinion "In popular culture" is more of a blip in time sort of ordeal rather than an ongoing event, so I believe again that the written portion in "Examples" is fine for this article.

Per the question about photos, as far as I can tell they can be used for citations if they present info (like a person's birthday), but cannot be used for photos due to not having permission from the original owner (unless permission is given). Pacamah (talk) 17:01, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

I have removed the Rauwerda mention as it is unquestionably unencyclopaedic and is borderline promotional. Bedivere (talk) 05:34, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi,

I'm surprised to see you've reverted my addition to the page on this. Like the users you responded to on July 3rd, I disagree with your choice. I'm also confused as to how you might read my contribution as promotional. It presents factual information about a contemporary practice of maintaining a perpetual stew and its social implications, without advocating or endorsing the event. Additionally, the information about the Perpetual Stew Club was sourced from a respected outlet known for food journalism. There are limited documented instances of contemporary perpetual stews, and Rauwerda's example is a unique and relevant case.

As far as it being "unquestionably unencyclopedic", I'd appreciate it if you could further explain what you mean by this. It presents a contemporary example of the perpetual stew tradition being upheld outside commercial establishments. It offers a balanced perspective of this practice in a community setting, thus contributing to the comprehensiveness of the article. The inclusion of diverse examples, historical and modern, commercial and community-driven, ensures the encyclopedic nature and neutrality of the article, in line with Wikipedia's standards.

I suggest reinstating the section for the reasons above. Chive Cream Cheese (talk) 23:14, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate source of information WP:RUNOFTHEMILL and is not news WP:NOTNEWS. This event is not revelant enough on its own for its inclusion in the encyclopedia, and as such, it should not be included here, regardless of your personal opinion. Bedivere (talk) 23:44, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Also it is evident you personally know Rauwerda and should refrain from inserting that content into the article as you may be in conflict of interest. Bedivere (talk) 23:45, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for taking the time to explain and providing the relevant links. I'm having some trouble following your position as the articles you've linked support my position.

On WP:RUNOFTHEMILL status:

This recurrent event's existence is not a common, everyday, ordinary item. It's certainly true that the Perpetual Stew Club should not be given a page of its own— local clubs supporting a hobby or interest should not be the cause of articles and their existence is generally not notable. But this is not a Wikipedia article on the Perpetual Stew Club; it is an article on perpetual stew. To that end, the existence of this event and specifically the stew at the event is absolutely notable, relevant, and deserving of inclusion on the page alongside the restaurant which sold it for eight months and the restaurant which has sold it for decades. (Many restaurants serve broth!) It is likely the most relevant item related to the topic of the article in decades. Regardless of our personal opinions about it, a month-old perpetual stew with community engagement and media attention is an important addition to the article, which is why you've had to fight multiple users on its presence. (Also, as you know, this essay is not one of Wikipedia's policies or guidelines, and it has not been thoroughly vetted by the community. Choosing to enforce this article is definitionally enforcement of a personal opinion on how Wikipedia should be run.)

On WP:NOTNEWS status:

This event isn't news, nor does inclusion represent the indiscriminate collection of information. It does have weight that should be included in proportion to its importance to the overall topic of perpetual stew.

On WP:CONFLICT status:

While it is true I have attended the event, I am not an event organizer nor currently affiliated with it in any official capacity. I was not asked nor in any way encouraged, directly or indirectly, to promote the event nor edit this page. Per the guidelines, I do not feel it necessary to disclose a conflict of interest, but I'm happy to concede on that front and take on connected contributor status if the community at large feels it necessary. Ultimately, I think it's clear I did not edit the article in my own interests, nor in the interests of my external relationships.

I'd also like to add, that like all behavioral guidelines, common sense, and occasional exceptions apply. It is Wikipedia policy that if a rule prevents one from improving or maintaining Wikipedia, it should be disregarded. Even if I had a significant conflict of interest, it's clear my contribution was an improvement to the article.

With all this in mind, it's clear the contribution should be reinstated. Chive Cream Cheese (talk) 01:14, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

It is not clear, and it should not be reinstated. It is not relevant enough for inclusion, despite your efforts otherwise. Bedivere (talk) 01:15, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

By the way, I'm not really sure you're not connected with Rauwerda when they've just congratulated you on your talk page. Makes no sense. --Bedivere (talk) 02:44, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

I'd love to reach a resolution and would it appreciate it if you could engage with those of us who have added this information.

Please consider refuting the central point instead of just contradicting.

One path forward for you would be to consider explaining your opinion: How is the item is not relevant enough? How are the other examples more relevant? What would need to change about either the event or the writing of the article for it to meet what you perceive to be Wikipedia's relevancy threshold? Chive Cream Cheese (talk) 01:30, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

For now it is only you defending Rauwerda's thing inclusion on the article. The previous commenters did not participate after my comment. One event of local relevance is not relevant for inclusion in an article of general significance. It is a one event-thing and is not encyclopedic. Bedivere (talk) 01:36, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

All examples in the article are themselves instances. That's why they fit under an example section. Chive Cream Cheese (talk) 01:49, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

3O Response: I removed this from the 3OR page because more than two editors are involved already. In any event, we should follow RSes; posts on social media do not justify inclusion of something in an article. If this club gets coverage in RSes, I wouldn't see the issue including it as an example of a perpetual stew. voorts (talk/contributions) 02:59, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you!

Given the coverage of the club in both Eater NY and Thrillist, both owned by Vox Media and both constituting RSes, I have undone the revert. Chive Cream Cheese (talk) 03:10, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

You are only edit warring, @Chive Cream Cheese. I will undo your revert and if you continue I will report you. It is obvious you are not here to abide by the Wikipedia policies. Bedivere (talk) 03:45, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi there.

I've maintained and followed all guidelines for dispute resolution, including seeking a third opinion, which is what you're replying to above. I encourage you to report this interaction and bring more eyes on it, as all my actions have been towards facilitating consensus-building discussion, and I've waited for community feedback before taking action.

Additionally, please be aware your choice to report all my uploaded images on Wikimedia Commons as having missing permission, despite the permission being present, constitutes hounding. Please keep your perpetual-stew-related frustration within this article's talk page.

Thank you! Chive Cream Cheese (talk) 04:01, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

It definitely gets coverage, I think that's why it keeps getting added. I just found out about it because of the coverage. 2600:4041:54BD:E800:38F1:2F1:8B63:FD38 (talk) 20:56, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

It is just fine as it is now. It mentions New York and that's perfectly okay. Further mentioning Rauwerda by name and other information that is unencyclopedic is not! Bedivere (talk) 01:44, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

I think the specificity of the examples is important and positive, but would be more than willing to concede on the mention of anyone's name! Chive Cream Cheese (talk) 01:47, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

I support @Chamaemelum:'s revision. If this event gets more coverage and the perpetual stew extends furthermore in time (as per your last edit it's only 29 days old, which is not long enough anyway) I would not oppose inserting it in its current extended version proposed by you, but not for now. Bedivere (talk) 01:58, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

I think the previous version was TMI, but @Chamaemelum's version is too short and borderline synth because it draws a broad general conclusion, that the tradition is being "kept alive", from a few disparate examples.

@Bedivere and @Chive Cream Cheese: Would you be willing to meet in the middle? Would either or both of you be willing to work together to find additional RSes that speak more broadly to contemporary perpetual stew usage? voorts (talk/contributions) 02:07, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

If it is happening even in one place, it is being kept alive. However, we could change it to something like "the technique is still used today" or something. Chamaemelum (talk) 02:10, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

If anyone could find at least one RS that speaks to any other contemporary perpetual stew related club or event in any capacity, I will immediately concede and agree fully that this is not notable and nor worthy of inclusion. Chive Cream Cheese (talk) 02:15, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

@Voorts A middle-point between Chamaemelum's and Chive's version would be okay. Bedivere (talk) 02:25, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi all, this is to inform everyone present in the ongoing dispute that I've opened a dispute resolution request on the noticeboard. Thank you! It can be found at Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#Perpetual_Stew Chive Cream Cheese (talk) 01:07, 8 July 2023 (UTC)