Talk:Jacob Chansley

Sources

Some sources to make the page:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2023/03/08/tucker_carlson_capitol_police_escorted_qanon_shaman_around_jan_6_committee_withheld_footage_from_attorneys.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.62.75.106 (talk) 07:03, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

https://conandaily.com/2021/01/07/jake-angeli-biography-13-things-about-q-shaman-from-phoenix-arizona/

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/us-politics/who-is-the-horned-man-who-stormed-the-capitol/news-story/de6853d19e8681a04aa0ee50c6e52b10

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/07/jake-angeli-qanon-shaman-arizona-heart-capitol-riots/

https://www.the-sun.com/news/2096968/qanon-shaman-jake-angeli-capitol/

https://www.thefocus.news/business/jake-angeli/

https://eu.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/arizona/2021/01/06/arizona-qanon-supporter-jake-angeli-joins-storming-u-s-capitol/6568513002/

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/arizona-environment/2019/09/20/climate-change-march-downtown-phoenix-global-youth-climate-strike/2357094001/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.96.237.30 (talk) 00:09, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

--Topjur01 (talk) 14:23, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Possible WP:WPNOTRS problems, but in case useful, some links from prior to the Capitol storming:
https://www.podbean.com/media/share/pb-ddgys-c51af9
https://www.linkedin.com/in/yellowstone-wolf-246aa7174/
Jonathan Deamer (talk) 10:26, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Newly released video footage

I thought this might be useful for the article. Includes commentary from Fox News. It shows multiple police officers and multiple locations allowing him into different rooms.

What do others here think about including this in the article?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4qajVw5rGk

SquirrelHill1971 (talk) 02:56, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Much more video footage. Skip to 17:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GITH8we-N3g

SquirrelHill1971 (talk) 03:05, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Anyway, after watching this, I don't think this wikipedia article does a very good job of explaining what this guy did to justify his multi-year prison sentence. I think the article needs to take this footage into account, and reexplain why he was sentenced to so long in prison.

SquirrelHill1971 (talk) 04:32, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

the video on Carlson's report clearly shows police escorting him through the building, and even attempting to open doors for him. No one tries to impede his movements, which as Carlson points out, is unusual if his actions were illegal. He was unarmed and he passed through groups of half a dozen armed security/police, who actively move out of his way to let him through. Why does the article then claim he is "storming the capitol"?2604:3D09:C77:4E00:E866:521B:C19A:E46F (talk) 04:35, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Yes. Exactly. That's why I requested that the article be improved by taking this video footage into account. I really don't think the article does a good job of explaining what actually happened, what he actually did, or why he was sentenced to prison for so long. Thanks for your comment. SquirrelHill1971 (talk) 04:41, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

No article will contain any purported findings from selectively edited videos presented by Tucker Carlson unless they are fully corroborated by reliable sources. soibangla (talk) 04:51, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

The "reliable sources" lied, again, just like they've lied about every other left-wing conspiracy theory - which is what the Jan. 6th "insurrection" is. Once again there is proof that it was propaganda. Will you guys fix it? 63.155.115.196 (talk) 11:21, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

We don't make interpretations based on footage, and we don't consider Tucker Carlson a reliable source. Until there are further developments reported on, I don't see what needs to change in this article. — Czello 12:40, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

We've all seen hours of footage of violence, in many places from many angles, but Carlson cherrypicks snippets of video to assert "The footage does not show an insurrection or a riot in progress. Taken as a whole, the video record does not support the claim that Jan. 6 was an insurrection. In fact, it demolishes that claim," calling them "sightseers." This is a delusional narrative. Are you aware that Fox News hosts and top executives recently acknowledged in private messages that they were lying to their viewers? I'm not confident that disclosure will chasten them; rather, I figure they're more likely to amp up their lying. Indeed, last night Carlson said, "In retrospect, it is clear the 2020 election was a grave betrayal of American democracy. Given the facts that have since emerged about that election, no honest person can deny it." In addition to being a total non sequitur from the video he was presenting, he's rekindling The Big Lie all over again. soibangla (talk) 15:10, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

lol your comment isn't removed for "soapboxing" or being off-topic yet a conservative one would be. Yeah I'm sure you've seen "hours of violence" and not snippets. "The Big Lie" is such an obvious term of propaganda yet it comes so easily from your mouth. 63.155.115.196 (talk) 16:29, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

soibangla's comment wasn't removed because they're explaining why we don't accept Carlson as a reliable source. You, on the other hand, seem to be arguing the topic - which is not what talk pages are for per WP:NOTAFORUM. — Czello 16:52, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

This footage showing that the Police were his friends in this story of January 6th should be included in the article. It actually seems to indicate that Jake Angeli wanted to be thought of as a Martyr, to which the Justice System, and the Left-Wing Media sources, accommadated him by giving a longer Sentence than his activity deserved.Easeltine (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 15:17, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

The police were not his friends, they did not "escort" him. They were following their riot training by passively standing off and watching him rather than get aggressive and exacerbate the riot. He was charged with multiple offenses and pleaded guilty, he gets out in four months. The media had nothing to do with it. soibangla (talk) 15:27, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments everyone. The content that is in the article is reliably sourced, so he really did do what it says he did. I now realize that this newly released footage does not negate any of that. Still, it is interesting to see him getting along with the police. I won't be adding this to the article, but thanks for your comments everyone. SquirrelHill1971 (talk) 00:41, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

SquirrelHill,

Your brilliance is impressive. Are actually Attorney General Garland? Had to ask. Sincerely, Birkoff 71.38.148.252 (talk) 01:38, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

• This release was subject of widespread coverage. I see it picked up by secondary source WP:NEWSWEEK here. RSP says "Unlike articles before 2013, Newsweek articles since 2013 are not generally reliable." I see it was also picked up by WP:NYPOST. BBC also picks it up here and that would be an RS for text that says "[Angeli] was videoed wandering around the Capitol building trailed by police officers who show no signs, at least in the clips broadcast, of attempting to stop or arrest him." Jtbobwaysf (talk) 06:55, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

(The following is not just about Jake, but about basic principles.) Not all intruders were violent, yet they still broke the law by entering the Capitol in that situation. We forget that just because a person may lead an otherwise peaceful life, they still get punished for that one time they break the law. It is therefore not improper for the media to focus on that one event. People who seek fame and notoriety, as Jake did, get noticed more and have more influence. This just adds to the coverage and the poor effect of their influence. Now Jake is paying the price and will be released in four months. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 15:57, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

What does this comment mean, are you quoting something or responding with you opinion about something? Jtbobwaysf (talk) 22:02, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

It's a comment to provide context for the situation. Some imply that because Jake wasn't violent here, that he is somehow innocent of the crimes he confessed to committing. No, he did violate the law. (Fortunately for him, he gets out of prison in four months.) My point is that one should not read more into that footage than it warrants. It's only a partial glimpse from much more footage showing Jake and his actions. One should think of the whole situation, which Carlson didn't show. All the insurrectionists who entered the Capitol that day broke one or more laws. The next time you're behind someone who breaks the law to get into a building, don't follow them inside. That's all. Let's move on. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 00:02, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

seems you are discussing the event itself or the legal issues stemming from it, please focus on the content on this BLP. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 00:13, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Proposal 1

Comment Would adding this be warranted? Any reformulations or alternatives are welcome:

In March 2023, selected video footage presented by Tucker Carlson on Fox News depicted Angeli walking through the Capitol building in the company of police officers who appeared to make no visible effort to stop him. Carlson, who was given exclusive access to the security footage by a top congressional Republican, characterized the officers as "tour guides" for Angeli and noted that none of the officers arrested him. U.S. Capitol Police Chief Tom Manger denounced Carlson's segment, calling the show "filled with offensive and misleading conclusions." Manger specifically took issue with Carlson's claim that Capitol Police officers acted as "tour guides" for Angeli. He maintained that Capitol Police officers were badly outnumbered and did their best to use de-escalation tactics to try to talk rioters into leaving the building.

Angeli's attorney claimed to have no prior knowledge of the footage and contended that the government is obligated to present all evidence, even exculpatory evidence, and that this duty is absolute rather than discretionary. Nonetheless, it remains unclear whether the footage can be used during court proceedings.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Mooonswimmer (talk • contribs) 22:15, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Mooonswimmer added this. Please sign your comments. I have created a sub-section to format as a proposal. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 00:08, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Missing sig added. It looks okay to me. It can always be tweaked by others, and that's what usually happens, which is fine. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 00:12, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

thx, i went ahead and added it as didnt seem to be objected to here. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 00:52, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

I don't think 'Arrest and criminal proceedings' is the best sub-section to add it under though. Mooonswimmer 01:00, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Good point. It would be better as the second paragraph in the "Participation in the 2021 Capitol attack" section. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 01:07, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

I made the move. Iamreallygoodatcheckers ^talk 01:16, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

References

birthplace

His Early Life sections seems to be missing a lot of information, like where he was born and who his father was, also family background. Leasnam (talk) 04:49, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Do you have any WP:BLP-good sources for content on this? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:05, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Jacob chansley

Correct your information people. Watch the new video footage that has been released 2602:4C:612:7D00:1488:3CC9:2D9C:B093 (talk) 16:37, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

A print source is probably better to use for something like the full name than video footage. —C.Fred (talk) 18:15, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

We already note his given name in the first sentence of the article. VQuakr (talk) 19:29, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 24 March 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. clear consensus to move (closed by non-admin page mover) Elli (talk | contribs) 10:08, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

---

Jake Angeli → Jacob Chansley – WP:UCN. The so-called QAnon Shaman has been referred to as "Jacob Chansley" in court documents. Most press coverage since 2022 has referred to him as "Jacob Chansley". The Hill Reuters NBC News Schierbecker (talk) 17:12, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

• This is a remarkably quiet move discussion. I support the proposal for the reasons stated above. I'd also point out some earlier support further up this page. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 22:36, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
• This is a case where a descriptive name probably would be more recognizable than either his legal name or pseudonymn (I'm not proposing moving it there, to be clear). Yes, weakly support move to the legal name that appears to be more frequently used in recent sources. VQuakr (talk) 22:41, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
• Support: Angeli is his second middle name, I never see him described as Angeli except in the context of an aka. soibangla (talk) 17:57, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
• Support: Jacob Chansley is the name used all over the news and the internet, so changing the name from Jake Angeli to Jacob Chansley on here makes sense. Froggly26rk (talk) 20:21, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
• Question: how does he refer to himself? Jtbobwaysf (talk) 06:42, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Still in custody of BOP facility

Article shows he is out of custody, but Bureau of Prisons records state Chansley's current location as RRM Phoenix, a federal residential reentry facility operated by the BOP with release date of May 25, 2023. The article cited cites the mother who may know understand the difference that he is still in federal custody since he is technically 'not in prison.' I think his status should be changed to In Custody, RRM Phoenix. His expected release date from custody is still May 25, 2023. Additional cites: cite 1 cite 2 Cite 3. Since this article has several maintaining editors, I'll just drop this here and let you all decide how to proceed. Cheers. P37307 (talk) 21:17, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Is this paragraph accurate as stated?

"On November 17, Chansley was sentenced to 41 months in prison. He served his sentence at Federal Correctional Institution - Safford in Safford, Arizona, with an original release date of May 25, 2023. On March 30, 2023, attorney Albert Watkins announced Chansley had just been released from prison 14 months early and moved to a halfway house." This statement seems inaccurate to me, as it states Chansley was released from prison 14 months early, yet it lists the original release date as May 25, 2023, and his release date as March 30, 2023. That totals to less than two months, not the 14 months mentioned. Is there information here that may be missing? Or is this a typographical error? Thanks. Xanderson 08:12, 29 May 2023 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xanderson (talk • contribs)

The 41 months count from Jan 21, including the time he was already in custody before the sentence from Nov 21. A release in Mar 23 makes 27 months from Jan 21, which is 14 earlier than 41. --Blobstar (talk) 09:27, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your reply. I'm still not quite clear, though. Nov. 21, 2021 to March 23, 2023 is 28 months. Sorry if I seem picky, I just want to understand this and make sure it's accurate. If the custody date is Nov. 21, then shouldn't the original release date be 41 months after that, thus it would be April 21, 2024? This is where I'm confused. Thanks for your insights. Xanderson 07:34, 30 May 2023 (UTC) Xanderson 07:34, 30 May 2023 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xanderson (talk • contribs)

Because he was in pre-trial custody since Jan 9, 2021 you need to count from Jan 21, not Nov 21. January 2021 plus 3y5m (41m) would be May 2024. January 2021 to March 2023 was 27 months. That's why when he was released from prison in March 23, they said he was released after 27 months, 14 months earlier than the original 41. --Blobstar (talk) 12:27, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Yoga leggings

He is now selling yoga leggings as "America's Shaman".[1] That should probably go in the article. Also the mention of "original release date" of May 25 2023 doesn't sound like it can be right, since the original sentence was 41 months starting no earlier than November 2021. 2601:644:8501:CF70:0:0:0:7260 (talk) 11:51, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

He has a whole store with Shaman-themed items. Why just mention the pants? 57.135.233.22 (talk) 06:09, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Notoriety

It seems his notoriety stems from his appearance, not any particular action he took on Jan 6. Without the costume, he would have just been another anonymous person in the crowd. 57.135.233.22 (talk) 06:00, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

It wasn't just his clothes.

• Chansley entered the Senate floor in the Capitol, ... was also photographed standing on the raised platform in front of Vice President Mike Pence's chair, gaining him significant media attention.
• In a January 14 court filing, federal prosecutors said that Chansley had left a note on Pence's desk in the Senate chamber that said "It's only a matter of time, justice is coming."

-- Pemilligan (talk) 12:33, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Former trump supporter and disavows Qanon

That statement of former Trump supporter and disavowed Qanon is not accurate. He was recently on Luke Beasely show on Youtube. He still supports Trump and is still a conspiracy guy. 70NofkrBS (talk) 02:50, 21 February 2024 (UTC)