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m Archiving 1 discussion(s) to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tropical cyclones/Archive 50) (bot
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I just created this wikiproject, after several months of contemplating doing so. I hope everyone working on hurricane articles will get involved. I went ahead and wrote a bunch of guidelines, basically based on current practices...naturally since this is something I just wrote it doesn't necessarily represent community consensus and needs to be discussed. That discussion should probably go here for now...although eventually we may make these pages a little more structured. For a general TODO list, see the "tasks" item on the project page. [[User:Jdorje|Jdorje]] 23:17, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
I just created this wikiproject, after several months of contemplating doing so. I hope everyone working on hurricane articles will get involved. I went ahead and wrote a bunch of guidelines, basically based on current practices...naturally since this is something I just wrote it doesn't necessarily represent community consensus and needs to be discussed. That discussion should probably go here for now...although eventually we may make these pages a little more structured. For a general TODO list, see the "tasks" item on the project page. [[User:Jdorje|Jdorje]] 23:17, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

== Requested move at [[Talk:Tropical Storm Conson (2021)#Requested move 8 September 2024]] ==
[[File:Information.svg|30px|left]] There is a requested move discussion at [[Talk:Tropical Storm Conson (2021)#Requested move 8 September 2024]] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. [[User:Asilvering|asilvering]] ([[User talk:Asilvering|talk]]) 00:25, 21 October 2024 (UTC)


== Does being a Category 5 Pacific hurricane establish notability? ==
== Does being a Category 5 Pacific hurricane establish notability? ==

Revision as of 15:20, 21 November 2024


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I just created this wikiproject, after several months of contemplating doing so. I hope everyone working on hurricane articles will get involved. I went ahead and wrote a bunch of guidelines, basically based on current practices...naturally since this is something I just wrote it doesn't necessarily represent community consensus and needs to be discussed. That discussion should probably go here for now...although eventually we may make these pages a little more structured. For a general TODO list, see the "tasks" item on the project page. Jdorje 23:17, 5 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Does being a Category 5 Pacific hurricane establish notability?

Per the recommendation of @Jasper Deng I'm going to start a broader project discussion about this. As the subheading states, does being a Category 5 hurricane alone establish a Pacific hurricane as notable? Apparently there is standing project precedent that all Category 5 Pacific hurricanes get their own articles. I don't think this precedent should really be in place to begin with. While it's true Category 5 hurricanes are less common in the Pacific than the Atlantic, I think a storm intensifying to Category 5 status then weakening without affecting land or setting any meteorological records doesn't establish its notability. What's more, these storms generally don't receive news coverage that goes beyond stating what the NHC had already said about the storm intensity-wise, so this doesn't seem to meet the "Significant coverage" metric of WP:GNG. Additionally, simply stating the storm's meteorological history and data without any other significant information seems to be violating WP:NOTPLOT. Looking for comments on whether this precedent should stand as it directly affects an article for an active storm. JayTee⛈️ 00:29, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It should. WP:NOTPLOT applies to human works and does not apply to real-life events. Hurricane Celia (2010) is a similar storm to Kristy and although its records aren't truly records in the sense of first place in anything (except strongest June hurricane), they're enough to warrant a section.
GNG is not a problem with the RS coverage we do have; the NHC is the WP:PRIMARY source with the other news articles the needed WP:SECONDARY sources. We can easily flesh out enough material to satisfy WP:SPLIT for all such storms. The question should be how do we serve our readers best, and Cat 5's are one of the most sought-after topics for readers in this basin.--Jasper Deng (talk) 00:43, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For Kristy specifically, could we tack it onto Nadine like with Tropical storms Amanda and Cristobal? ✶Quxyz✶ 00:55, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Very few sources join the two in the way Amanda and Cristobal did, so probably not. But that could be a better alternative than not having an article at all for Kristy.--Jasper Deng (talk) 00:58, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would agree as, if Kristy has no other notability, it would be the better route. For the conversation as a whole, I believe that Category 5s shouldn't have inherent notability. Possibly, they could have lower standards but fish-storm Category 5s without any records should not have articles. ✶Quxyz✶ 01:02, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Several sources directly connect the remnants of Nadine with the formation of Kristy, as will official season summaries and TCRs I'm sure. A combined Nadine–Kristy article would have both notability, and a depth that the Nadine article lacks due to its small-scale impact, and a Kristy article would lack due to it being a Category 5 fish storm without any records or land affects to its name. Drdpw (talk) 01:14, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am creating the merge request now. ✶Quxyz✶ 01:38, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hold your horses. The idea of merging the two needs a separate discussion on one of the talk pages and a consensus therefore.--Jasper Deng (talk) 01:42, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To the main subject of this discussion, not every notable topic needs a standalone pages, or in this instance, not every Category 5 hurricane needs its own article. The question is, "how best to help readers understand the subject." For a system like Kristy, the best way might well be through a well written section in the season article. Drdpw (talk) 01:55, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hard disagree. A reader looking into the intricacies of things like eyewall replacement cycles and the overall genesis process for the strongest storms will not be satisfied by the season article section. A reader coming from List of Category 5 Pacific hurricanes is also unlikely to be interested in the rest of the season. Jasper Deng (talk) 01:58, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
While it is less common for a Pacific storm to reach category five, it seems to me that that alone isn't and shouldn't be enough for an article, as most people above have stated like Drdpw. Shmego (talk) 18:35, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category 5 status does not confer notability automatically. To Jasper's point, eyewall replacement cycles are often mentioned in season articles, but if that only happens once, and the storm weakens over land, then it can easily be summarized in the season article. I could see storms like Hurricane Elida (2002) and Hurricane Hernan (2002) getting merged. I mention those two as examples because the 2002 Pacific hurricane season is under 5,000 words, so an expansion is warranted. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 02:04, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Easily summarized in the season article" – don't think so. Kristy in particular is a two-peaked storm, and Pacific Category 5 hurricanes tend to be long-lived and have substantial history of their own, or be short-lived with land impacts. Kristy is in the former category.--Jasper Deng (talk) 02:06, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Kristy's met history can be easily summarized in the season section, we don't need to get into the intricacies of the storm's history and an article of such would be filler. JayTee⛈️ 05:00, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
An article that provides details a reader wants is not "filler". The existing summary leaves open several questions, such as its structural evolution before peak.--Jasper Deng (talk) 05:45, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We don't delve into the structural evolution of every single tropical cyclone in heavy detail nor do we need to, that caters to a very small proportion of readers. I stand by my point that Kristy's met history can easily be summarized with its season section. By your argument another fish storm like Hurricane Gilma, which underwent more structural evolutions than Kristy, deserves an article. JayTee⛈️ 16:55, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Adding on, we can ramble on about anything that a reader wants to learn about a subject for pages. This reasoning also kind of feels like saying that everything related to a celeberty is notable, which I believe there is a guideline against but I do not know what it is called. ✶Quxyz✶ 18:20, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, for the record, given the discussion here and on other talk pages, I do not see that there exists consensus that being a Category 5 Pacific hurricane alone establishes notability or qualifies a system for its own article automatically. Drdpw (talk) 23:52, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move at Talk:Hurricane Paul (1982)#Requested move 30 Oct 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Hurricane Paul (1982)#Requested move 30 Oct 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Raladic (talk) 15:42, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Question about reference

Hi:

Could someone give me a reference about the "official" start aand end of the 2024–25 South-West Indian Ocean cyclone season. It is said in the text: 15 November 2024 to 30 April 2025, with the exception for Mauritius and the Seychelles, for which it will end on 15 May 2025. However, I could not find a weblink to corroborate that.

Pierre cb (talk) 04:37, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The WMO RA I TCC defines the season as being from July 1 to June 30 of the following year, in line with the tropical cyclone year that is defined in the Australian and South Pacific regions. They also note, though, that certain members have defined a shorter period based on domestic needs and when disturbances are likely to influence their weather. For example, Mauritius says that the seasons run from November 1 to May 15.Jason Rees (talk) 13:25, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! Pierre cb (talk) 05:05, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Track map update

I realized that the effort to update the track maps is far from over. I wondered if we should have a task force, and maybe a recruitment drive to get editors to help. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:16, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I found this a year or so ago but I am not sure how official it is. ✶Quxyz✶ 01:13, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Adding on, I might be willing to help with updating tracks but I need to know where to access BT files and the proper software (if the above is not good). ✶Quxyz✶ 01:33, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That site is wholly unsuitable for generation due to the size of the images.--Jasper Deng (talk) 07:41, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What if we had more of an incentive to make the track maps? Another user I was chatting with - TheNuggeteer (talk · contribs) - talked about having another hurricane cup next year. What if we had an editor competition, and included making track maps as one of the ways to get points? Separately, we could also have bonus points for articles about meteorology instead of single events. Just trying to find a creative solution to this problem. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 22:19, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sure! Though I'm not sure about the Meteorology one. Maybe the participants can decide. 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 (My "blotter") 04:34, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What exactly does it take for one to generate the track maps, as in, what type of software and level of technology proficiency? Because if there's a certain software or application needed to make the track maps, then it doesn't seem fair to make it part of the Cyclone Cup if not everyone can download/have access to it. JayTee⛈️ 17:55, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JayTee32: You basically need Linux (though not Android or ChromeOS), Windows Subsystem for Linux (Windows 10 or later), or Unix (including macOS). Basically all major desktop operating systems.--Jasper Deng (talk) 07:06, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JayTee32: As for proficiency: you need basic knowledge of bash (Unix).--Jasper Deng (talk) 07:13, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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