Talk:Manly Warringah Sea Eagles

Copyright infringements

The historical article displayed on Manly's wikisite is the intellectual property of rl1908.com author Sean Fagan. Any content from the rl1908.com site that is re-produced must have the permission by Mr Fagan first.

Unfortunately due to this, the content has been removed. If you wish to contact Sean you can email him at sfagan@rl1908.com

Sbryce858 07:38, 29 March 2006 (UTC) 07:34, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

General Fix-Up

I'm going through the entire page and sorting out suitable information from the early history to the present. Much of this information is available in different forms and suitable permissions will be sought.

The layout is also chaos with no 'flow' between articles.

Too much emphasis exists on very recent news and players and I don't see a need for 'match reviews' in the numbers they exist in for 2006 and 2007. Much of that information should be sourced through the official Manly Sea Eagle site, and if it isn't archived there for future access, it should be.

Please be patient with my efforts and I should have a completed page by mid-August 2007.

Thanks.Manly1124 09:03, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Seagulls

Is it true that at the time of the 1957 and 1959 Grand Final losses to the Dragons the club was known as the Manly Warringah Seagulls ? When did it change ? - Sticks66 13:02, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Manly1124 - There is no evidence of the use of Sea Gulls as an official moniker for the Manly club. Some in the press used the term when the club first put a 'bird' on the jersey due to the confusing design and assumption that this is what it was.

Sound Bites

Well done to whoever is expanding the article but why is most information delivered in one sentence paragraphs like "sound bites'. Please remember you're writing an encyclopedic article. A paragraph should flow and invite the reader to stay with you. Group two or three related sentences together into a paragraph. If you make an assertion cite a link (preferably) or back it up with another sentence or two that evidences the prior assertion. Tell a flowing story. -Sticks66 13:09, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Soundbites

Firstly, thanks for the appreciation with the expansion. Please note that it is a longer-term project and I'm just getting the raw info down first. Further improvements will be implemented when I'm happy with the amount of details, and will include pictures, links, references, etc.

Considering the state of the page when I first started, I felt it necessary to fix on-the-run rather than do it off-line and share no info for the couple of months I'd set aside.

Manly1124 09:03, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Article wants breaking up

Article is loaded with history. Reckon this deserves its own page. A Manly 2007 season article may also be a step forward. Alexsanderson83 21:01, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Subject is still going through changes. At this stage, information will be added to the article before appropriate division between a Manly main page and more in-depth reviews, including more recent years.

As for the Melbourne rivalry, it is not suitable in the context employed in the article. On the basis of a close game, Manly potentially has rivalries with all teams at various times. Rivalries need to develop over substantial periods of time and be in the Manly supporter psyche. The Storm do not fit this bill and will be removed at this time.Manly1124 08:06, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Manly are obviously a club steeped in history, along with the mergers as well. I reckon this may warrant a history of the club page. A 2007 page is something alot of other NRL teams have. Londo06 17:50, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Someone removed starting line-ups, 2007 article to be made. Alexsanderson83 07:36, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Moved run on side to 2007 page. Londo06 10:13, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles History

Created a Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles History page as the details on this page are extensive. If someone wants to scale down this page to an introduction please feel free as I am only familiar with the club over the last 13 years or so. Londo06 09:55, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for moving that. now that it has a main article, some serious cutting down is required. The history sounds full of POV and fan talk though. Michellecrisp 11:14, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I have an almost ready summation for the main page that can link across to the history. I believe that most of the history page should retain the majority of the information drawn across. The people drawn the page will be those interested in the club first, and Rugby League second. The deliver of the information designed to engage the reader that is interested on how the club has grown and what it has been through to get there.

Jump on to any Manly forum and discuss the detail and you will find that the vast majority would appreciate the level and context of detail. To contextualize this material in a manner similar to an entry on Temperature Scales or Queen Elizabeth, will not engage the reader.

Manly1124 03:07, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Continuous Amendments to History

Whilst I appreciate the need to shrink the main subject, the continual removal of information relevant to the Manly history is becoming annoying.

Good ideas regarding the spliting of information into tighter pages is certainly the way to go. To acheive this and still tell the story of the clubs progress, I believe the info currently in the main needs to be left alone, until further progress is made with other pages.

I am trying to be objective regarding the editing of the page, but to see people that are more than likely not supporters tinkering with details and removing items that THEY believe is not relevant, eg. the signing of Wally O'Connell, is wearing thin.

Read the whole article, get ALL your ideas down and then make a thorough suggestion through this page. Most of the deletions and summerisations are coming across as nit-picking and unhelpful.

Manly1124 02:44, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

The history section as it stands must be summarised for 2 main reasons: the detailed history has its own main article now so something appearing on this main page cannot be long, secondly the article is considered too long so the history section must be reduced. As a guide check out the Featured Article Sydney_Roosters#History should be a guide. A degree of nitpicking is necessary, I wouldn't apply the same standard to the separate history article. I would not regard my deletions as unhelpful. Secondly there is no rule that non-supporters can't edit, see WP:FAN. Michellecrisp 02:51, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

In addition, if people want the full history they go to Manly-Warringah_Sea_Eagles_History that's what the link is for now. Michellecrisp 02:54, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I appreciate what you are saying, but using one of your amendments as an example, how can you label POV opinions in the article yet amend a reference to Wally Lewis as an Immortal by deleting it and adding "legend" to the front of his name? It is these amendments which appear to contradict your intentions.

I'm all for assistance and opinions to make the necessary improvements to the subject; but to have continual minor changes to a subject that I have clearly stated on this page as a work in progress, is frustrating.

Manly1124 03:08, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I was unaware that you were proposing a major rewrite till I saw this message today, please use Wikipedia:Template_messages/Maintenance to warn other users. As for POV tagging, it is evident in parts that it sounds like a Manly supporter talking up the club which clearly is a breach of NPOV guidelines (see also WP:FAN). As for the Wally Lewis edit, I'm sure everytime his name is mentioned in Wikipedia it doesn't have the Immortal reference before it. One only needs to click on Wally Lewis to find out his great achievements... because of Wikilinks in Wikipedia one does not have to repeat information. Michellecrisp 03:14, 27 July 2007 (UTC)