Talk:Osama bin Laden: Difference between revisions
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AND BY THE WAY I also didn't see the religious beliefs of other well-know terrorists such as the IRA leaders beliefs heading in the infobox... [[User:LOTRrules|LOTRrules]] 21:51, 13 May 2007 (UTC) |
AND BY THE WAY I also didn't see the religious beliefs of other well-know terrorists such as the IRA leaders beliefs heading in the infobox... [[User:LOTRrules|LOTRrules]] 21:51, 13 May 2007 (UTC) |
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Some would say he is taking the Lord's name in vain. 'Misuse of the Lord's name' -- Exodus 20:7. |
Some would say he is taking the Lord's name in vain. 'Misuse of the Lord's name' -- Exodus 20:7. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/75.41.24.104|75.41.24.104]] ([[User talk:75.41.24.104|talk]]) 13:48, 11 September 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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==Height== |
==Height== |
Revision as of 13:49, 11 September 2007
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Redirects
Both "Osama" & "bin Laden" redirect here. That is not right. how do we get it corrected? --IceflamePhoenix 13:14, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
Dead
Anyone else think he is dead by now?
I personally believe he has been dead for a long time and made some tapes before his death to be continually released at certain times in the future by his helpers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.69.161.130 (talk)
I think hes dead too if you have takewn a look at his past videos he looks nothing like the original. Also in one tape the was shown of him he was writing with his right hand even though he is left handed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.220.160.111 (talk) 19:47, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
Religion
I am saying that I propose that we get rid of his "religious belief" and just call him a terrorist, people who i've spoken with say that its saying that bin Laden is a Sunni Muslim and Sunni Muslims are like him - when THEY'RE NOT.84.56.97.246 is right - mention something about the CIA!
AND BY THE WAY I also didn't see the religious beliefs of other well-know terrorists such as the IRA leaders beliefs heading in the infobox... LOTRrules 21:51, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Some would say he is taking the Lord's name in vain. 'Misuse of the Lord's name' -- Exodus 20:7. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.41.24.104 (talk) 13:48, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Height
Someone please fix the height, the inches " prompt Wiki to italicise. Cheers. 84.56.97.246 11:47, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
CIA involvement
You guys dont even talk about the involvment of the CIA in training Osama bin laden against soviet union. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.105.167.235 (talk)
again please give details, stop hiding the information, otherwise the Wikipedia system would be pointless...!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by LOTRrules (talk • contribs)
He also loves star wars and is a fan of homosexual propaganda. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ghasforty (talk • contribs)
UBL writings
While he lived in Londinistan UBL wrote some sort of open letter against King Fahd. It mentions the arrest of Saudi "scholars" al-Ouda and al-Hawali. Anybody got this letter? Thx. LDH 04:02, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
- It's in an open letter dated Dec 29, 1994 to bin Baz giving him a harm time for colaborating with al Saud. You can find the mention on page 8 in Messages to the World edited by Bruce Lawrence. --Leroy65X 19:35, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
three stepbrothers and one stepsister
"step" means they share no bloodline and only siblings or parent because of marriage...since they do share a bloodline via the mother they are his half siblings. --ahalfsister :-) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.153.29.140 (talk) 03:46, 8 February 2007 (UTC).
Osama bin laden is awsome! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.128.93.27 (talk)
Osama bin laden is awsome a man licker! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ninington (talk • contribs)
- He's married to his half-sister - yuck! I don't want to know how their sexual relationship worked out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.24.155.43 (talk)
Two little slips
"Aymen Al Zawahiri" should say "Ayman al-Zawahiri".
Maktab al-Khidamat is referred to as Office of Order in one place but as Services Office in another. I would replace "Services Office" with "Maktab al-Khidamat".
LDH 09:33, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Request for information
can anyone tell me lots about Osama bin Laden? Please tell all you know . I need to know for a project. Thank you for helping. =D — Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.128.93.128 (talk)
Awkard looking sentence
"While Azzam and his MAK organization acted as support for the Afghan fighters and provided relief to refugees and injured, Jack wanted a more military role in which the Arab fighters would not only be trained and equipped by the organization but also be commanded on the battlefield by Arabic."
Did the writer mean "Arabs" or "Arabic" as in the language? Brian Pearson 04:18, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Peter Bergen inconsistencies
The quality of the article could be greatly enhanced by cleaning up and linking references to Peter Bergen (who seems to be an important source for the article) and giving his credentials the first time he's used as a reference rather than late in the article. Ddigby 19:42, 6 March 2007
I find truly comical the insertion of the comments of Peter Bergen on ObL as "opposed" to those of Robin Cook. The latter was THE former Foreign Secretary of the UK in the years 1997-2001 with direct hard knowledge of the facts while the former is one of million journalists writing on terror and collecting interviews from various sources of questionable credibility (including ObL in '97 ;-) ). By the way this PB proudly states to have written his book on ObL taking "the 1982 book Edie [as a model]: American Girl by Jean Stein, which was edited with the help of George Plimpton. Edie is an oral history of Andy Warhol superstar Edie Sedgewick, the beautiful model and actress who lit up Warhol's Factory in New York during the mid-1960s only to die at the age of 28 after epic struggles with drugs and depression". For the sake of credibility, can someone please clean up any reference to Peter Bergen as an authoritative source on ObL? 150.217.154.22 11:21, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Missing controvesy
This article is sub-standard as there is no mention of the possibility that this person "Osama Bin Laden" actually might not exist at all or the possible fact that he is co-conspiritor with the Americans to implement their domination over globe. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.248.159.240 (talk) 09:28, 8 March 2007 (UTC).
- We might as well add the possibility that President Bush may or may not exist and that he's working solely for big oil. Without some sort of decent evidence and sources this is all just conjecture and there is no reason to add it.--24.84.51.247 22:37, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Quote from Robin Cook
While correctly cited (the quote is Cook's words verbatim) I can't find any other source to suggest that what he says about "Al-Qaida" referring to a "database" is true. It seems that the word in Arabic simply means "The Base." Perhaps Cook's inference is correct, but I don't see any such indication. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.166.108.240 (talk)
- Reference to the training camp and by extension those who have attended it as "the base" preceeded UBL's involvement. The suggestion that "the base" was derived from a reference to "database" may very well have come from whatever sources he suggests but it isn't a credible suggestion when the leadership which preceeded UBL established it's use independant of any database or such records. 220.233.94.28 13:56, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
- Cook's suggestion that al Qaeda means "the database," and is a reference to a CIA computer database places him squarely in the role of a delusional kook. IOW, his comments are non-authoritative and should be disregarded. Pooua 08:00, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
- I don't see how the following statement, quoted by Bergen, differs from Cook's view:
"It was always galling to the Americans, and I can understand their point of view, that although they paid the piper they could not call the tune. The CIA supported the mujahideen by spending the taxpayers' money, billions of dollars of it over the years, on buying arms, ammunition, and equipment."
He is acknowledging that the CIA funded the mujahideen, as Cook argued. Vesku 11:07, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Illness
Lacks any reference to his the need for Kidney Dialysis. This topic comes up from time to time when you hear criticism of "why cannot we find a very out of place tall, 50 year old man, who needs a dialysis machine, in the desert". This topic is disussed Here in depth. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gmillerd (talk • contribs) 11:00, 12 March 2007 (UTC).
Images
An editor User:Yonatanh has removed the copyright tags from the main images used in this article and then marked them for speedy deletion as not having copyright info...doh. Image:AQ00105.jpg and Image:Osama_1.jpg. I am no longer active on this wiki if there was another editor who could follow up. Cheers.--Paul E. Ester 21:22, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Attempted Capture by the USA
The wording in this section is in my opinion eerily similar to the article it cites. Perhaps this could be reworded in uhm.. "Wiki's own words" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by NeptuneMan (talk • contribs) 11:54, 16 March 2007 (UTC).
Unclear pronoun reference
He attended his son's wedding in January 2001, but since September 11 of that year he is believed only to have had contact with his mother on one occasion.[11]
What does "he" mean here? Osama bin Laden? (The sentence follow immediately upon mention of Osama's father.) I am guessing that the passage in intended to indicate that after 2001 Osama has had little or no contact with the family members with whom he grew up. P0M 22:17, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
- http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A62618-2002Apr16?language=printer
- Quoted in current page, allow fails to mention this:
- (Tommy) Franks (US continues to dissent from that analysis. Rear Adm. Craig Quigley, his chief spokesman, acknowledged the dominant view outside Tampa but said the general is unpersuaded.
- "We have never seen anything that was convincing to us at all that Osama bin Laden was present at any stage of Tora Bora -- before, during or after," Quigley said. "I know you've got voices in the intelligence community that are taking a different view, but I just wanted you to know our view as well."
Love for Whitney Houston
Looking at the ref for this, it's not clear to me that the article is not satire. Can we get a better source for this? Maybe this, but I think it also seems a little too light-hearted.
Perhaps what I'm getting at is whether Kola Boof is even a reliable-enough source to use with attribution. I almost think that this paragraph should go into a "Osama bin Laden in popular culture" or something similar, because it seems deeply incredible and no source takes it seriously. See also Talk:Osama_bin_Laden/Archive_12#Kola_Boof_Affair_of_1996 Cool Hand Luke 03:43, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- Couldn't it just be deleted instead? Apart from possibly Bobby Brown, who's bio could this be considered relevant to either way? 220.233.94.28 14:05, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, I removed it a few days ago. We ought not include every crank's claim on a significant figure's biography. Cool Hand Luke 22:29, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
U.S. refused to hand over evidence to Taliban .... according to the Taliban
It is important to note that the Taliban was ready to have a trial for Bin Laden and if the USA's evidence showed Bin Laden was responsible, he would be handed over. This government never complied. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/09/11/world/main310852.shtml
- What this article says is that Taliban claims the U.S. government did not show them Bin Laden was responsible for 9/11. --Leroy65X 17:37, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
The United States government could have had Bin Laden already. President Bush at times did not care about Bin Laden, but come the 2004 election he did. If Bin Laden committed the September 11th attacks, he should be taken seriously. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Heresmyworld (talk • contribs) 12:23, 23 March 2007 (UTC).
- Here is a source that verifies the US refused to prove binLaden responsible and gets rid of that pesky word "claim".
- http://www.guardian.co.uk/waronterror/story/0,1361,573975,00.html
- According to this link the Taliban offered to surrender bin Laden unconditionally before 9/11 but the Bush administration didn't take it up.
- http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn11012004.html Wayne 01:31, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
- Um this isn't new news. It's well established that the Taliban said they wanted evidence before they would hand over Osama but the US basically said fuck you and invaded them. Some people argue that the Taliban were just delaying. Others say the US just wanted to invade someone. Whatever the case, I remember this from before the invasion so it's clearly nothing new. Also, I would venture it has much more to do with the US invasion of Afghanistan then Osama so you really should be getting it there first Nil Einne 13:02, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Two things to consider. First from the New York Times on September 21, 2001, "All week, reports from Kabul and Kandahar have indicated that the Taliban leaders were engaging in a cat-and-mouse game with the United States, with Mullah Omar saying Mr. bin Laden would never be handed over, then suggesting that he might be under certain conditions. The conditions changed from day to day. It appears clear that there are significant splits within the Taliban movement, although their exact nature is not easy to determine." http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/21/international/21CND-PAK.html?ex=1184385600&en=306de4c788819c15&ei=5070 Second, a link to a page detailing the Taliban's proposal to try Bin Laden in Afghanistan under Sharia law. http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/10/07/ret.us.taliban/. The contentions above that portray the Taliban's demands as reasonable and just seeking evidence before being willing to turn him over, are completely off-base. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.98.0.36 (talk)
Bunk citations
There are multiple citations to Bin Laden taking responsibility for Septmember 11, 2001, attacks, but the quotes which are cited are never specific. I do not agree that those citations imply addmission of involvement specifically to Sept11. The quotes are addmission of desires, or general involvement to attacks in general, but are not specific to Sept11.
To give an example... just because I wanted the Blue Jays to win the World Series of baseball, and I did whatever was in my capacity to help them win, does not mean I was directly involved.
We, as wikipedians, should not be adding between the lines.
The Osama_bin_Laden Wikipedia page needs a major edit to regain neutrality. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cendres (talk • contribs) 14:13, 1 April 2007 (UTC).
- I've attempted to clean up September 11, 2001 attacks section, removing the word "admitted" and inserting quotes from him and more specific statements. --Leroy65X 15:40, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
Family
- Osama attended his son's wedding in January 2001, but since September 11 of that year he is believed only to have had contact with his mother on one occasion.[1]
I've removed this as it is badly written and misplaced. I'm not sure what it's supposed to say. Is his son's wedding supposed to be the last contact he had with his family (apart from his mother)? If so, this is what it should say. The citation doesn't even mention this as far as I can see!--Jack Upland 03:15, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
September 11, 2001 section
This section details the various bin Laden tapes without once using the word aledged giving the impression they are all authentic. None of the tapes have been authenticated and some are obvious fakes. This should be mentioned for NPOV. Wayne 16:04, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
- Evidence? --Leroy65X 15:54, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
- It should also be noted in the article that bin Laden initially denied involvement in the 9/11 attacks. http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.249.107.53 (talk) 09:30, 16 May 2007 (UTC).
- It does.
- Bin Laden initially denied involvement in the September 11, 2001 attacks while praising them effusely, ...
- I've put more of bin Laden's statements in blockquotes to make them more obvious. --Leroy65X 15:49, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
It's currently being disputed as an " erroneous report " however, my Rex Tomb addition is factually correct. #1 The FBI website does not mention 911 on bin Laden's MOST WANTED poster, and #2, Rex Tomb does work for the FBI, and even has been summarily interviewed by the washington post on the ommition. Also , he did not deny saying his infamous quote that started this whole controversy. "There's no mystery here," said FBI spokesman Rex Tomb. "They could add 9/11 on there, but they have not because they don't need to at this point. . . . There is a logic to it."http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/27/AR2006082700687_pf.html -- --Bennyxbo 13:52, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
- Here is what the Washington Post says:
- [the] infamous date -- Sept. 11, 2001 -- is nowhere to be found on the same FBI notice.
- The curious omission underscores the Justice Department's decision, so far, to not seek formal criminal charges against bin Laden for approving al-Qaeda's most notorious and successful terrorist attack. The notice says bin Laden is "a suspect in other terrorist attacks throughout the world" but does not provide details.
- The absence has also provided fodder for conspiracy theorists who think the U.S. government or another power was behind the Sept. 11 hijackings. From this point of view, the lack of a Sept. 11 reference suggests that the connection to al-Qaeda is uncertain.
- Exhaustive government and independent investigations have concluded otherwise, of course, and bin Laden and other al-Qaeda leaders have proudly taken responsibility for the hijackings. FBI officials say the wanted poster merely reflects the government's long-standing practice of relying on actual criminal charges in the notices.
- "There's no mystery here," said FBI spokesman Rex Tomb. "They could add 9/11 on there, but they have not because they don't need to at this point. . . . There is a logic to it."
- David N. Kelley, the former U.S. attorney in New York who oversaw terrorism cases when bin Laden was indicted for the embassy bombings there in 1998, said he is not at all surprised by the lack of a reference to Sept. 11 on the official wanted poster. Kelley said the issue is a matter of legal restrictions and the need to be fair to any defendant.
- "It might seem a little strange from the outside, but it makes sense from a legal point of view," said Kelley, now in private practice. "If I were in government, I'd be troubled if I were asked to put up a wanted picture where no formal charges had been filed, no matter who it was."
- Bin Laden was placed on the Ten Most Wanted list in June 1999 after being indicted for murder, conspiracy and other charges in connection with the embassy bombings, and a $5 million reward was put on his head at that time. The listing was updated after Sept. 11, 2001, to include a higher reward of $25 million, but no mention of the attacks was added.
- i.e., Nothing about "Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI", publicly stating "that there is no hard evidince linking bin Laden to the 9/11 attacks."
- Frankly this is a waste of time and too unimportant to include in the article (If there was a government conspiracy theory, why doesn't it include an idictment of bin Laden?) but I've added it anyway.
The Rex Tomb quote explains why bin Laden has not be indicted, how is that not important? I included a source to the " no hard evidence "quote. Can we comprimise? this is important information. --Bennyxbo 17:42, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I will call Rex Tomb on behalf of my local paper and have him verify his statement, then link to the mp3..will that suffice?--Bennyxbo 04:09, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
Vesku 14:15, 31 August 2007 (UTC) : I concur that Rex Tomb's statement that the FBI has no hard evidence on bin Laden's involvement in the 9/11 attacks is important information. Therefore, I returned the quote of the statement. I also think that in this connection it is noteworthy that the promised white paper proving his guilt was never provided.
Crop the image
Could someone please crop the "Goverment exhibit" label off Image:AQ00100.jpg (or upload a new one for use in the article). It would fit better into the infobox:) -Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 19:03, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Another alleged death
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/01/18/gen.musharraf.binladen/index.html Please add to the list of death allegations. This is the first allegation that he died and most widely publicized. It is strange that it is not listed here, but two more recent and less widely publicized allegations are. --64.230.120.186 16:32, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Two more sources on these early claims:
- http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/01/18/gen.war.against.terror/
- http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,265412,00.html
The last source contains this informative quote:
- "Missing, of course, could mean dead, and a small minority of officials in the Pentagon, CIA and FBI believe that bin Laden's public silence since the December [2001] tape suggests he has succumbed — if not to U.S. air strikes, then possibly to kidney failure."
--64.230.120.186 16:40, 25 April 2007 (UTC) I just saw this one: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html
{{editprotected}}
- please add July 2006 CIA closes unit focused on hunting Osama bin Laden
- to the alleged death timeline
- source: new york times
- http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/04/washington/04intel.html?ex=1309665600&amp;en=3779ed9b98bb9d22&ei=5088
- and NPR
- http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5529208
- 68.238.165.213 01:59, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
- This page is semiprotected; any username more than a few days old can edit it. There is no need for administrator assistance to edit this page. — Carl (CBM · talk) 03:59, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
God i really hope that hes dead! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.205.13.165 (talk)
Name
Why is the name also written in the Devanagari script? Bin Laden is Arabian, not Indian. I am removing it.
Bmaganti 21:35, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
article idea?
anyone qualified to write an article about the binladen construction company. Chergles 01:53, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
The Golden Seal Campaign
For the sake of Wikipedia and controversial articles...
Gold Seal Campaign:
What do you think of this? The administrators of Wikipedia establish a Gold Seal campaign for certain articles. This “Gold Seal” will indicate for a given article it’s factuality and lack of vandalism. Basically it will show..
1-This page is properly cited.
2-This page has been verified.
This will be an important step for Wikipedia. It means students, high school included will be able to cite Wikipedia in their work. As of now many schools do not allow students to this.
As for editing an article, It will still be allowed yet a person can easily revert to the Gold Sealed, verified page on Wikipedia. This will be an amazing step for Wikipedia, though difficult, it will allow readers to know for sure what they are reading is true. It will surely improve Wikipedia’s image in the public sphere. Of course someone will have to organize this, but in then it will be sufficient use of labour. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mattawa (talk • contribs)
Inappropriate to Provide Links and Pages to Osama's Wives
This is a private matter, a man's wives, Wikipedia should have the class to respect. Arthur Mellin, PST 01:01, 19 May 2007
- ....what? Since when should wikipedia not mention who a person is married to? You can go to pretty much any biography anywhere whether on wikipedia or not, and it will tell you who they are married too, if they are in fact married. Should be remove his date of birth because it's private information? His kidney problems are private too. Wikipedia isn't going to censor any information, anything verified and citerfiable (i.e. obeying BLP) will be included on the encyclopedic article. Encyclopedia, i.e. include all the information. SGGH speak! 12:09, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Osama Bin Laden is only known as a terrorist to Amercia and its allies
This article is so biased. Osame Bin Laden is not a terrorist from what i have seen. America and its allies only attacked him because they believed that he caused 9/11 but they did it without proof. Look at America. more then 600,000 people have been killed in Iraq because of there lies and how they treat humans and muslims. They are the real terrorists. Osama Bin Laden only fights for what he thinks is right. He is a hero to many people. He does not treat people badly
- what about the hundreds of Africans who were killed so he could bomb the American embassies in Africa and kill a handful of Americans?
(Which happens to muslims in US custody), and he does not lie (Bush with his fake story about WMD's). He is definitely not a terrorist, and he has never said that muslims should kill american civilians and there allies, that is just a biased view.
- So who issued the fatwa in his name saying that? Who issued the many videos of Bin Laden saying "american civilians and there allies" should be killed? --Leroy65X 17:01, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
I hope this article will become more neutral so people can see Osama Bin Laaden in more then 1 way, not just as a 'terrorist' — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shahroze (talk • contribs)
--This was posted by editor Shahroze. Who is he? "Im from Pakistan. Im currently living in Canada were im doing my studying in KCVI [Kingston Collegiate and Vocational Institute in Kingston ONTARIO]. im interested in politics, military, and astronomy" (Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Shahroze") — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leroy65X (talk • contribs)
So you think just cuz im pakistani im taking his side — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shahroze (talk • contribs)
- I wouldn't say that. You didn't sign your name so I thought it would be good to let people know something about who was talking, i.e. posting. --Leroy65X 18:07, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
lies, u could have just posted my name — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shahroze (talk • contribs)
So, you thunk Americans are evil and should die? Is that it? If it were true tha Bin Laden was responsible, for 9/11, would you support him still? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.69.87.183 (talk)
This is not a forum. This is a discussion page for improving the article. Take the kooky stuff elsewhere. Jtpaladin 01:06, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
- This thread is something like three months old, I doubt you'll get any useful replies by replying denigratingly to a three month old comment by an anonymous editor. --ForbiddenWord 12:26, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
fuck you leroy, bush is one of the best presidents we've ever had, and osama bin laden is SATAN in the FLESH.
Posted by: Michael
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.205.13.165 (talk)
Bin Laden isn't a terrorist because he is risking his own life of richs for the well being of his country. Bush is just stretching his arms too long to the middle east and taking all their oil. Bush cares about oil not Bin laden. He is just using Bin Laden as an excuse so he could defeat them and take their oil. If Bush never liked oil 911 wouldn't happen and we would know Bin Laden as a wealthy citizen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Taoli1995 (talk • contribs)
If bin Laden can't be called a terrorist, who can? I'm suprised the word isn't used in the first paragraph of this article. Anybody object if I insert it? Griot 01:25, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
- I'm pretty sure it's been removed before as being too POV. dcandeto 16:29, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
- May I suggest you all read Messages to the World: The Statements of Osama bin Laden (also read the reviews on that page at the bottom) and if you cannot afford the book (which is essential reading for anyone that updates this article) then read John Millers interview with Osama bin Laden in May 1998 which can be found HERE and then 'Greetings, America...' article. No, I do not believe he is a terrorist but I do not agree with his methods either. That book should most definately be read as it gives the 'terrorists' reasons for doing what they are doing as opposed to the other terrorists reasons that we hear on TV everyday. Robert C Prenic 16:54, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Illness
There is heavy speculation as to UBL's health. I've seen people theorise that he has Marfan's syndrome, while I have just learnt from an edit to Addison's disease that someone has suggested he suffers from that. Should we mention those things once a reliable source can be found? JFW | T@lk 14:10, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
Hanging
He really is dead now... shouldn't we add that? The whole hanging thing... there's videos on YouTube of it, I don't think this is another fake lol. Template:Signatures/Gangsterls17:31, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
- Can you cite any reliable sources for that assertion? dcandeto 17:32, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
- Nvm... gotta stop confusing Osama with Saddam. Been frying my brain all morning, my apologies. This April 27 BBC article says he's at large. Template:Signatures/Gangsterls17:53, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
Osama bin Laden died July 16, 2007 of kedney failure as reported By tribal elders in the no mans land of Pakistan — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.158.79.114 (talk)
- If he's dead, then there will be a lot who have an interest in covering it up. A possibly living OBL causes more fear and terror than a dead "martyr". So we will probably never know it for sure. If he manages to live undiscovered, he will also manage to die undiscovered. 84.115.129.76 09:30, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Distinctions
Saddam Hussein: arabic guy of who is thin and gaunt and pale with jet black hair and trimmed mustache and well groomed for his court appointments on world television. he was hung at the end of December of 2006. Osama is anyone's guess for what he might look like today and where he might be. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Berniethomas68 (talk • contribs)
The Al-Attas' served as a step family in Jeddah
Could anyone tell me what this means and how it is suitable as a subheading? Arkyopterix 13:17, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
photos?
why aren't there any? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.143.183.254 (talk)
response: Why on earth would you want any? He's a disgusting excuse for a human being and should be dropped off a very high cliff — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.111.91.76 (talk)
- The exhibit photo is currently shown TWO times in the article (top and middle) but the "golden robe" photo from the pre-2004 US election speech is not shown, even though that shows UBL in a majestic, sheik-like manner, speaking not from a cave, as yankees like to joke, but from an established mansion. Omitting that is NPOV! 82.131.210.162 07:22, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
You guys are silly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.62.6.233 (talk) 23:25, August 26, 2007 (UTC)
Where should we put this?
[[Image:Osamabinkorvkiosk.jpg|thumbnail|right|Some people like to crack [[joke]]s about Osama bin Laden, as shown by this doctored [[photograph]] from [[Sweden]]]]
This was an image uploaded onto the Swedish Wikipedia. I wonder where in this article this would be appropriate... WhisperToMe 17:19, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
EDIT: The link doesn't work, and I cannot verify the copyright status, so I will speedy this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WhisperToMe (talk • contribs)
Not Wanted for September 11th attacks?
Please take a look at the following links.
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm
His wanted poster mentions *NOTHING* about the September 11th attack on the US. He is not wanted by the FBI for the attacks that took place on September the 11th. Look through the other top 10 most wanted terrorists wanted posters. Many of them are wanted for conspiracy charges. Osama is not even wanted for conspiracy. If the FBI felt he had orchestrated the attacks that happened that morning his flier would look something like this "CONSPIRACY TO KILL U.S. NATIONALS, TO MURDER, TO DESTROY BUILDINGS AND PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES, AND TO DESTROY THE NATIONAL DEFENSE UTILITIES OF THE UNITED STATES" The fact that this information is missing speaks volumes about the FBI's position regarding what really happened that morning.
Lividity 23:36, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
- This has been covered before.
"There is no legal proof to prove the identities of the suicidal hijackers"
- FBI Director Robert Mueller- Sept 2002
"In the case of the 1998 United States Embassies being bombed, Bin Laden has been formally indicted and charged by a grand jury. He has not been formally indicted and charged in connection with 9/11 because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11."
- FBI Chief of Investigative Publicity Rex Tomb- June 2006 - — Preceding unsigned comment added by WLRoss (talk • contribs)
- Please read earlier Talk page posts before putting on tin foil hats.
- Reposted from above:
- ... [the] infamous date -- Sept. 11, 2001 -- is nowhere to be found on the same FBI notice.
- The curious omission underscores the Justice Department's decision, so far, to not seek formal criminal charges against bin Laden for approving al-Qaeda's most notorious and successful terrorist attack. The notice says bin Laden is "a suspect in other terrorist attacks throughout the world" but does not provide details.
- The absence has also provided fodder for conspiracy theorists who think the U.S. government or another power was behind the Sept. 11 hijackings. From this point of view, the lack of a Sept. 11 reference suggests that the connection to al-Qaeda is uncertain.
- Exhaustive government and independent investigations have concluded otherwise, of course, and bin Laden and other al-Qaeda leaders have proudly taken responsibility for the hijackings. FBI officials say the wanted poster merely reflects the government's long-standing practice of relying on actual criminal charges in the notices.
- "There's no mystery here," said FBI spokesman Rex Tomb. "They could add 9/11 on there, but they have not because they don't need to at this point. ... There is a logic to it."
- David N. Kelley, the former U.S. attorney in New York who oversaw terrorism cases when bin Laden was indicted for the embassy bombings there in 1998, said he is not at all surprised by the lack of a reference to Sept. 11 on the official wanted poster. Kelley said the issue is a matter of legal restrictions and the need to be fair to any defendant.
- "It might seem a little strange from the outside, but it makes sense from a legal point of view," said Kelley, now in private practice. "If I were in government, I'd be troubled if I were asked to put up a wanted picture where no formal charges had been filed, no matter who it was."
- Bin Laden was placed on the Ten Most Wanted list in June 1999 after being indicted for murder, conspiracy and other charges in connection with the embassy bombings, and a $5 million reward was put on his head at that time. The listing was updated after Sept. 11, 2001, to include a higher reward of $25 million, but no mention of the attacks was added.
- i.e., Nothing about "Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI", publicly stating "that there is no hard evidince linking bin Laden to the 9/11 attacks."
- Frankly this is a waste of time and too unimportant to include in the article (If there was a government conspiracy theory, why doesn't it include an idictment of bin Laden?) but I've added it anyway.
Osama Bin Laden Died July 17 2007 of kidney failure as report By tribal elder in the noman land of pakinstan
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.158.79.114 (talk)
Goals
I don't know if this has been addressed before but is there any mention as to what bin Laden actually wants? I thought it was odd that neither this article or the al-qaeda article state any goals for their endeavors. Anyone want to address this? Jtpaladin 20:46, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
Just so you know, this image has been tagged as lacking a fair use rationale for this article, and will be removed if one is not provided. --Haemo 04:24, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
Saudi?
As bin Laden has been stripped of his Saudi citizenship, the Guardian style guide says we should not call him a "Saudi". I agree with this usage and have amended the article to call him "Saudi-born", which I think is fairer. --John 22:13, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
-- He was not Saudi born. He is of Yemeni birth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.94.221.24 (talk)
- The article says he was born in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Do you have a source that says otherwise?--John 05:31, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Grammar
"For a while Osama worked at the Services Office working with Abdullah Azzam on Jihad Magazine, a magazine that gave information about the war with the soviets and interviewed mujahideen. As time passed, Aymen Al Zawahiri encouraged Osama to split away from Abdullah Azzam. Osama formed his own army of mujahideen and fought the Soviets. One of his most significant battles was the battle of Jaji, which was not a major fight, but it earned him a reputation as a fighter.
Formation of al-Qaeda"
a while should be awhile. Mr.grantevans 12:58, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
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Number of children
In the beginning info, it states that he has fathered 55 children. A few sections down it says 11 to 24. And besides the fact that there are two different values, why is the number of children included in the intro? Thylacine222 01:03, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Pronunciation of name
Could someone upload and audio file pronouncing his name? The article states that it has been transliterated many different ways and I am curious as to whether "Osama" or "Usama" is closer to how he pronounces his it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Feedmecereal (talk • contribs) 05:13, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
The emir is alive
He will speak to the fedajeen worldwide via videotaped message on the 6th anniversary.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/09/06/binladen.video/index.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.131.210.162 (talk) 12:43, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
This article's "mythology" is embarrassing
How is this article supposed to be encyclopedic if there are so many "may's," "purportedly's," and "perhaps's." How can you not know if he graduated from college? How is height so open to debate? How is he "said to be one of X number of siblings." —Preceding unsigned comment added by SirGrotius (talk • contribs) 15:56, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Infobox pic
Is there any other pic of bin Laden apart from the one tagged as "government exhibit"? -- FayssalF - Wiki me up® 03:55, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
Half Alawite?
I've seen some articles claim that Osama's mother, and maybe also one of his wives, is an Alawite, for example:
"COOPER: Bin Laden's mother is Shia, isn't Bin Laden's mother Shia?
BERGEN: She's believed to be an Alawite from Syria, which I think is one of the sects in Shia. So, it's something that the Al Qaeda leadership did not want. They also didn't want all of these beheadings of civilians. Zarqawi did seem to stop that. But Bin Laden, privately, at the moment, I'm sure he's publicly going to say that Zarqawi's death is a wonderful martyrdom, but privately he may be hoping that somebody, whoever takes Al Qaeda in Iraq over is a little more -- follows the central direction from the Al Qaeda leadership in Waziristan."[1]
"interestingly, I never understood how Wahhabi Saudis who marry Alawite women or even take them as concubines justify their actions in light of Ibn Taymiyya’s fatwa. This is particularly important in Osama Bin Laden’s case, whose mother and first wife (Umm Sa’ad, who happens to be his maternal cousin) are both Syrian Alawite women from a village to the east of Latikiya. In Ibn Taymiyya’s understanding, Bin Laden’s very presence is a sin—hmmm, interesting, maybe that’s why Abu Jandal mentions virtually all the big shots in the world of jihad by name and extols their virtues (Abdullah Azzam, Zarqawi, Zawahiri, …etc) but not Bin Laden."[2]
"This city of 320,000 is a stronghold of the Alawite sect, an offshoot of Islam that controls Syria's government and security forces. Historically, there has been tension between the conservative Sunni arm of Islam and the Alawites. Though there has been widespread speculation that bin Laden's mother was an Alawite--which could have complicated his early life in Sunni-controlled Saudi Arabia--the Ghanems insist the family is Sunni."[3]
"For the first time, in Osama, we hear a lot about bin Laden's mother, who, according to some informants, was a concubine and had roots in the Syrian Alawite sect, whose mystical beliefs are considered heretical by many Muslims -- including the puritanical Saudis."[4]
And so on and so on, there are a lot more sources if you simply Google Osama Bin laden, mother, and Alawite.
If this is true, it is quite significant, and would maybe explain why Al Qaeda hasn't attacked any Alawite targets yet. Funkynusayri 19:53, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
Osama is in Chitral: US experts
http://www.dawn.com/2007/09/09/top9.htm
Osama is in Chitral: US experts
By Our Correspondent
WASHINGTON, Sept 8: Osama bin Laden is in Chitral, US experts have claimed while commenting on Al Qaeda leader’s latest video in which he has taunted America for losing the war against him. Several US television channels and newspapers quoted US counter-terrorism experts as saying that bin Laden is hiding in Chitral because it is remote and its rugged terrain makes it impossible for Pakistani forces to look for him there. There’s enough evidence “to persuade intelligence analysts that it’s his most likely location,” an expert told CBS.
Daniel Benjamin of the Brookings Institute says that the Al Qaeda chief also has sympathisers in that area. “They have a code of hospitality for guests, and they’ve probably also gotten a fair amount of money from bin Laden,” said Mr Benjamin who tried to track bin Laden down during the Clinton administration.
He believes bin Laden is surrounded by bodyguards armed with surface-to-air missiles and good intelligence.
“I think it’s quite likely he has a very good early warning system (and) that there are perimeters set up so people know who’s coming and going in the area that he’s living,” Mr Benjamin said.
Michael Scheuer, a former CIA analyst and author of three books on Al Qaeda and terrorism, disagrees with this theory. “I think they’re blowing a little bit of smoke. They have to say something now that he is back in the public eye,” he told CBS.
“If you look at the territory, it is impossible to find any single person up there, and we don’t have enough people to do it, and we respect Pakistan’s sovereignty. I guess they’re not going to go into Pakistan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.72.34.86 (talk) 04:19, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, can someone please add something like this to the 'Whereabout' section
- US intelligence has confirmed that Osama bin Laden may be hiding in Chitral.[2][3]
- I couldn't edit the page. --Touchedbyeveryone 06:22, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Please add this to the Education section
Hi, I believe it should be added to the education section of the article that Bin Laden is reported to have taken some (English) language course in Oxford in 1971. See here. Thanks in advance, 86.56.48.12 20:57, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
september 2007 video
Shouldn't some stuff be put in about his latest video. Namelly it came out, he looked very diffrent, was 26 (or whatever) mins. long, he ranted about typical "libiral" issues, the CIA says the voice is his, and the video stop around 2 minutes the voice changes and then he talks for a very long time.68.50.168.239 04:19, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Footnotes
- ^ "Who is Osama Bin Laden?". BBC News. Retrieved 2006-05-15.
- ^ Bin Laden likely lives in comfy safehouse, intel experts say, Daily News, by James Gordon, Sunday, September 9th 2007
- ^ Osama is in Chitral: US experts, WASHINGTON, September 8, 2007
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