Talk:Tsunami

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Animal Precognition

Suggest that a section about this intriguing phenomenon, observed before the 2004 Indian Ocean event, would add value to the article. Which animals have this sense and know to act on it? By what means do the animals receive prior warning? How long before the event do they receive it? Why don't humans have this ability? Is this phenomenon observed before other major events, like volcanic eruptions, etc? EdX20 00:42, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

"Precognition" is probably misleading in this case, as it implies that it wasn't the result of their normal senses. In the case of elephants, dogs, etc, it is thought that subsonic rumbling of the approaching tsunami provides warning (much like it does for earthquakes). An article I read back in December suggested that unusual behavior by fish, which presumably could detect the pressure changes and other disturbances in the ocean, caused unusual behavior by the shore birds that feed on them and so on across the ecosystem, well before the effects of the approaching tsunami were noticed by humans. All of this, well referenced of course, would be useful in this article. - BanyanTree 16:16, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

I think this section could be removed. The California Department of Conservation, the agency in charge of earthquake readiness, lists this as a myth. The problem is, how can one tell the difference between odd behavior in animals due to an earthquake vs odd behavior due to any other explanation. This may also be a case where it is just a mental trick we play on ourselves, vs hard scientific evidence. In any case, there should be a hard journal article to support this contention.--Dr.Worm 15:43, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

The paragraph beginning "One of the early warnings comes from nearby animals" seems speculative as there were plently of animals killed by the 2004 tsunami. For example, The Washington Post reported, "In the coastal town of Velanganni ... volunteers wearing face masks drove around in trucks Tuesday, picking up cattle carcasses ...". The (Wikipedia) paragraph also says, "The Lisbon quake is the first documented case of such a phenomenon in Europe." If this is actually true, needs a reference. Instead of "Animal Precognition" I'd suggest a section title such as "Do Animals Know Early?" that discusses the evidence. --Dr Smith 22:29, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Tsunami wave

I did some English-language redaction on the recently added "Tsunamiwave", but I'm not sure about the raw information itself. First, do we have a source for any of it? Second, I'm uncomfortable about the "N-wave" statement (again, fixed if we have a source). Finally, I'm concerned about my editing of the business about a "solitary wave". The original was:

The Tsunami is also characterised as a Solitary wave (according to shape) which has only crest and no trough.

My version is:

Tsunamis form "solitary waves", or waves with crests but no troughs — more like sand dunes than sine waves.

The problem is that I may have misinterpreted the use of "which" in the original. I thought it meant "a solitary wave which is a wave that has only crests…", but it may have meant "a subclass of solitary waves that have only crests…". Solitary wave is unhelpful, as its explanation is purely mathematical, but Soliton (to which I linked the reference, and which specifically mentions water waves in a tank) suggests solitary waves are a more general class, and that a tsunami-style wave is only a single example. I'd appreciate it if someone more domain-knowledgeable could check and possibly correction my changes. Thanks. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 18:34, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

From Samueldevadoss,

It is accepted that, I havent't clearly explained about the 'TSUNAMI WAVE' in relation to solitay wave. Solitary waves are not only mathamatical concept but also a real time event (Solibores or just bores are some examples) and can be generated in experimental wave tanks. The name N-wave is used because the intial form of a Tsunami wave resembles the letter 'N'(exactly at the point of generation of Tsuanmi) and with time and distance it grows to solitary wave. Hope, I will add references soon for justification. Thank you.

new interwiki

+ sr:Цунами(What's this? I'm a Newbie) [I don't want to put any of this in the article because I'm still not sure how to identify my edit and post verification.]

RE: "However, an extremely large landslide could generate a megatsunami that might have ocean-wide impacts." The reference here is to shoreline slides.

No amount of land sliding into the sea can create a "megatsunami" or any other kind of tsunami over any appreciable distance. Only a deep-sea slide or tectonic upheaval can generate such a phenomenon. The reason is simple friction. Any wave propagated only on the surface dissipates as it encounters and transfers its energy to all the particles of water in its path, as well as the tremendously heavy air above. This can easily be verified by rolling a large rock -- say a foot across -- into one side of a 100 foot pond. Though at this scale such a rock would represent something about the size of Spain sliding into the Atlantic Ocean, you will see the resulting ripples diminish as they radiate outward, and no change whatsoever in the water at the opposite shore.

However, it must be remembered, at this scale, that even a millimetre rise on the other side would have drastic consequences. Giving the Atlantic's width to be approx 4000km, a 1mm rise in water level on the other side would equate to a tsunami between 100 and 150m high. Obviously such a small rise of 1mm cannot occur on this tiny scale (water tension). --Spark.1.4 11:05, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

"These events can give rise to much larger local shock waves (solitons), such as the landslide at the head of Lituya Bay which produced a water wave estimated at 50 – 150 m and reached 524 m up local mountains."

The following myth is widely circulated about this event "On July 7, 1958 In a narrow Alaskan bay about 250 miles west of Juneau, the highest tsunami ever recorded loomed to a height of 1,700 feet (520 meters) -- almost twice as tall as the Eiffel Tower."

FACT: A powerful earthquake caused the collapse of a toy house, sending it crashing into one side of the toy truck, thus sending an enormous rush of blocks -- about 1 foot high -- the short distance to the opposite shore, at such high speed that it ran up the opposite slope to a height of 1 inch. There was no such thing as a wall of blocks twice the height of the arm chair by the kitchen , and there has never been anything like this in the last three seconds

Tsunami researchers have got to curtail perpetuation of the myth that a "big" tsunami means a "tall wave." It does not. The public is constantly being haunted by the image of a prodigious "wall of water" suddenly looming over us, and this is utterly impossible, short of impact by a large celestial body. There is no evidence whatsoever that any tsunami traveling an appreciable distance across the ocean can make landfall at some monstrous height above sea level. When such a wave approaches a shore, receding water causes it to rear up temporarily, but then it curls, crashes, and races onto the land in a sloped configuration -- just as a normal wave does -- but it does so at high speed. It's the velocity, not the height of the wave, that causes so much destruction. A massive volume of water traveling at high speed with great inertia, even a few yards above sea level, can exert tremendous force over a great distance inland. Constant reports of towering waves are based upon the height to which such surges have run up inland slopes, NOT the actual height of the waves.

Corroboration: Dear Dr. Shiarella, Thank you for your correct comment. We will see if we can put a description of the actual wave on our web site, and I will make sure this is clearly noted in training presentations. Regards, Laura Kong, Director, International Tsunami Information Center Drshi 23:02, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

This may well be true (I've no idea), but there are very respectable-sounding people who do argue that landslides can cause tsunamis: [1] Given the inclusion of could and might in the original statement, I think it should stand. Henry^Flower 11:29, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Sure, and there is also a one-hour documentary touting this pseudo-disaster, in which researchers are shown estimating the size of a surface tsunami over 2,000 miles from its genesis by sliding rocks into a water tank only a few yards long. Debunking sites include http://www.lapalma-tsunami.com/ and http://www.drgeorgepc.com/TsunamiMegaEvaluation.html Drshi 22:01, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't pretend to understand the physics/geology/whatever of the matter; all I (or anyone at Wikipedia) can do is to look at what reputable sources say. Some say that a landslide could cause a tsunami, while some don't. Unless one side concedes, it's not for us to take sides. Henry^Flower 22:07, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

An underwater landslide has been blamed for the July 17 1998 Papua New Guinea tsunami (which killed approx 2200. I'm concerned that wikipedia doesn't appear to have a page on it) by some scientists, yes - [1 http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn_arc99/8_14_99/fob2.htm] [2 http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/seafloorscience/slopes/slopes_story.html] --Spark.1.4 11:05, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, though as of now this site does not represent an "us" to me, it seems that when two legitimate sides to an issue exist, both should be equally represented. To my mind, it does not take a physicist or geologist to see the patent absurdity of a shallow landslide of any size propagating a tsunami over the surface of a sea for thousands of miles. A tsunami is NEVER a surface phenomenon, as verified above by Laura Kong. Those who have lept to such conclusions have done so on the basis of geological evidence found in remote areas that suggests a possible link to other areas far afield at which such slides have ocurred. Not exactly incontrovertable. Drshi 14:36, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

I certainly agree that both sides should be equally represented. Bill McGuire, a professor at a very respectable university, [2] does not think the idea is patently absurd. We should say that some people think it could happen, and some people think it couldn't. Henry^Flower 14:51, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Of course, we don't know whether or not the positions of McGuire and other pro-tsunami researchers have been modified since the subsequent proffering of opinions and evidence to the contrary, do we? Drshi 16:51, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

I certainly don't. But the idea can hardly be as absurd as you make out if they believed (and, AFAIK, believe) it. Henry^Flower 18:26, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

My previous comment states that the supposition is absurd "to my mind"; it does not proclaim absolute absurdity. However, I am certainly not without credentialed support in my belief, and history is replete with virtually universal scientific opinions that have since proved dead wrong, even absurd. I did my own research in my backyard pond, as described in my initial entry, and I feel that any person with a reasonable intellect and imagination should be able to conclude that, in the case of a non-stagnant, 100' pond of any depth and shoreline slope, it would take a landsliding mass about the relative size of Europe to cause any effect at all on the opposite shore. Sometimes the most simple observations are far more telling than complex scientific extrapolations, as famously illustrated on TV by Caltech physics professor Richard Feynman, when he placed a small O-ring into ice-cold water and showed its loss of pliability before an investigative committee on the Challenger space-shuttle disaster. With all due respect, it's beginning to sound to me as if you hold some kind of stock in the tsunami theory, otherwise your investment here might be more productive were it aimed at assisting this newcomer in inserting the equally valid opposing view into the attendant article. ;-)

PS It also seems to me that you are too eagerly taking the findings of establishment researchers at face value, as though they are operating in some sort of academic ivory tower. The way this whole issue got started was that some researchers applied for grants on the basis of a possible tsunami devastating the coasts of Great Britain and America. Of course such a hypothesis would prove attractive to funding sources; but what would be the odds of such a grant being extended were a researcher to report a first year finding that there was no solid support for such a hypothesis? Unfortunately, scientific theories are seldom without bias of one sort of another, while those who debunk such theories are usually independent mavericks with no special ax to grind other than maintaining the purity of scientific method. Drshi 11:53, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Video

Is this appropriate: Rare footage of the 2004 Tsunami its a video entitled 'funny tsunami' i have been reverting it, but i'm just checking that i'm doing the right thing by stopping it?

Magnitude

Does anyone have any information in which a minimum magnitude is associated with a tsunami. This could prove useful knowledge for those who live in tsunami prone areas. 21:29 28 August 2006 (HST)

I don't believe that there is a 'minimum magnitude' as such, as a fairly moderate earthquake (say a 5 or 6) could cause an underwater landslide which could be just as devestating as a 9 or 10.--Spark.1.4 10:51, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

question

can anyone explain how the tsunami wave appears to sometime cause water to retreat from the shore at first?Edxguy 14:24, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

research waves in general, have you ever been to the beach? before every wave, the water goes out. if it didn't ever go out all the water would be on the land and not in the ocean.

Stats

The article Great Chilean Earthquake has a different fatality figure than this article. -- Beland 02:09, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

The earthquake article mentions earthquake fatalities; the tsunami article talks about tsunami fatalities - I don't think there's any contradiction - apples and oranges. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 05:44, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Anyway, since it's not clear, I added the referenced number from the CRED database. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 05:47, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Funny Tsunami?

Has anyone seen the funny tsunami video? Is it appropriate to link to it? hi lol fun

1755 - Lisbon, Portugal

This section is confusing (to me at least):

"Tens of thousands of Portuguese [...] were killed by a tsunami which followed a half hour later."

"The earthquake, tsunami, and many forest fires killed more than 1,000 of Lisbon's pre-quake population of 275,000."

Either that's mistyping, or it's saying that tens of thousands of Portuguese were killed, but only 1,000 of them were actually from Lisbon.

217.194.34.103 10:17, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

The Portuguese Wikipedia says in the article about the 1755_Lisbon_Earthquake at http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terramoto_de_Lisboa (my translation): "From a population of 275 thousands in Lisbon, it's believed that 90 thousands died." In a remark about this claim, the article also says (my translation) "There are sources citing 30,000 mortal victims." Jayme 18:42, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Japanese legend

I removed the statement It, in Japanese legend, is thought to be caused by a giant fish-god swimming around under the ocean, causing a tsunami because the legend is (at least in every reference I dug up) that earthquakes, and not tsunami, are caused the giant catfish's writhing. I know it sounds kind of nitpick-y, but since not all tsunami are caused by earthquakes, the line isn't completely accurate. Mary quite contrary 05:07, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Really?

"ca. 1600 B.C.: The Israelite crossing of the Red Sea has been linked by some researchers to a tsunami following the volcanic explosion of the Greek island of Santorini."
Which serious researcher would come to the idea that a volcanic eruption in the Mediterranean would spark a tsunami in the Red Sea? Is this an attempt by some creationist to infiltrate the "science" of the christian religious texts into science again?
That should be deleted as it is complete nonsense.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.3.187.12 (talk) 15:57, 27 March 2007 (UTC).

No, this is an attempt by some non-religious scientist to explain what religious people regard as supernatural. It was referred to by Dr Iain Stewart on the BBC programme "10 things you didn't know about tsunami" which aired recently. Moonraker12 (talk) 12:43, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

this is a really good site and helps you alot with all of the work you might need fopr school. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.239.67.53 (talk) 01.16, 29 March 2007 (UTC).

Bounce-back tsunami

"These tsunami were so large that they caused landslides on the opposite coast triggering another massive tsunami, or "bounce back" tsunami. An example today would be a landslide equivalent to everything west of Portland, Oregon falling into the Pacific Ocean, resulting in a tsunami that would then hit the Chinese coast with enough force to erode the coast, triggering a landslide large enough to send a tsunami that would in turn inundate the U.S. West Coast and would wipe out Portland."

I'm not sure how even a very large tsunami alone could cause a landslide large enough to generate another ocean-wide tsunami. This sounds implausible, and I've never heard of anything like it before. Added to which, the scenario of everything west of Portland "falling" into the ocean is ridiculous and not sensible for inclusion in a serious encyclopedia. But hey, if someone has a reference, let's have it in there. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.173.58.133 (talk) 16:47, 1 April 2007 (UTC).

On further consideration, this may be a confusion with tsunamis being reflected, which may well (does?) happen so far as I know, though obviously with a large loss of energy. References would be handy, and until then I suggest leaving more extreme paragraphs like this out. And sticking to realistic geological examples.

The Word Tsunami

Why is the word tsunami in italics all over this article? 65.92.176.38 01:31, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Who knows. It's fixed now 206.47.141.21 16:25, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami

I found this line in the article surprising, and hard to believe: "The American recording stations in Hawaii detected the tsunami within a few minutes of it starting, but as it posed no danger in their locality they did not publish a warning." According to: http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2004/s2358.htm they detected the earthquake- but not the tsunami, because they don't have any buoys in the Indian Ocean, and they did send out warnings. I think this line should be deleted or cited.

Athenastreet 18:47, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

no name for sue nommy

Plural of tsunami

According to Merrian-Webster, the plural of tsunami can be either tsunami or tsunamis. Personally, I prefer the former simply because I’m accustomed to it, but most NES (native English speakers) might prefer the latter, which could lead to edit wars over this. Any suggestions for averting such silliness, such as perhaps a notice or footnote stating that either is correct, but we’ve (“Who’s we?” is the obvious retort, of course) settled on one or the other? Jim_Lockhart 02:36, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I've thought about this as well. My instinctual reaction is, we don't automatically add "s" to pluralize every English word, so why should we do it - inappropriately - to a word from another language? My more logical reaction is to look at other Japanese words ending in "i" that have made their way to us and how WP treated them. For instance, according to the dictionary, it's an acceptable to pluralize origami with an "s", but our WP article doesn't use this version. A better argument is "sushi", which nobody in their right mind would call "sushis".

Then again, having lived in Japan, I have a little personal bias and definitely get itchy when I hear or read "tsunamis". But I'm not sure what the consensus is/was/would be here. --Mary quite contrary ^(hai?) 03:33, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Inappropriate remark?

Since not all tsunami occur in harbors, however, that term is equally misleading, although it does have the benefit of being misleading in a different language.

I fail to see where's the benefit in that; looks completely non serious to me, any reason to leave it in? Perseguidor 13:59, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

To clarify: actually I do see the very practical benefit of that (it isn't as misleading an error to the general public), but the remark strikes me as badly worded. I wanted to know whether I'm just being culturally oversensitive because of the fact that english is not my first language. Perseguidor 14:04, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

The comment could be worded better. Also, the "Signs of an approaching tsunami" section needs work. Could "disgustingly fat wave" be vandalism? Has a tsunami ever washed "over an entire country"? The last sentence in the section, "Although in the 2004 tsunami in the Indian Ocean the sea receding was not reported on the African coast or any other western coasts it hit, when the tsunami approached from the east" doesn't seem to fit in that section at all, and is not a complete sentence, in addition to being very poorly worded.

Additionally, the section on the 2007 Solomon Islands tsunami is written using some present tenses (it is not timeless, as all wikipedia articles should be) and also needs to be updated with conclusive data. --Cromwellt|talk|contribs 19:46, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Gas bubble image

I've commented out the "Gas bubble" image (Image:Tsunami5.JPG) pending a reference for this. Maybe gas bubbles cause tsunami, but I'm a bit skeptical. Ref. please. Vsmith 01:38, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Tsunami in Mexico in 1932

Different sources talk about a Tsunami in Cuyutlán town in Mexico, on June 22, 1932. I listed this Tsunami, as "Possible Tsunami" in the section of North America and Caribbean Tsunami, refering a news that also refers newspapers from 1932 and interviews. EliminatorJR eliminated this addition, but considering that it was written under "Possible Tsunami" section, and sourced, it should be kept.

Splitting article?

The section of notable tsunamis is large, perhaps we could create List of notable tsunamis and simply link to it here? - 2-16 17:22, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

A Tsunami does not have to be 'on a massive scale'

A tsunami (soo-nah-mee; IPA: /tsʊˈnɑːmi/) is a series of waves created when a body of water, such as an ocean, is rapidly displaced on a massive scale

This should read:

A tsunami (soo-nah-mee; IPA: /tsʊˈnɑːmi/) is a series of waves created when a body of water, such as an ocean, is rapidly displaced

Or something simmilar, could someone please confirm

69.156.99.171 17:46, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Missing name

Under Tsunami#Causes, third paragraph:

In the 1950s it was discovered by that larger tsunami than previously believed

Who discovered this?

Split

What about to move a Historic tsunami section into a new article? It is quite long now and it looks ugly here. Miraceti 14:12, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Removed content

I have removed the following (unreferenced etc.) section from the article:

---

Samui Kaze Desu,( Cold Wind Query) a Japanese expression, meaning ' Isn't that The Cold Wind?' - a small cold wind from the sea that often preceeds the tsunami.

It seems that when a vast volume of sea water is thrown into the air, a similar volume of air is displaced, and consequently a wave of air flows outward from the eruption.

This wave of air travels faster than the wave of water, and is cold by the time it comes ashore because it travels across the surface of the water. It may arrive seconds or minutes before the tsunami,depending how far out the eruption is, or maybe not at all ( perhaps if the first onslaught of the tsunami is a recession of water ?).

Experienced Japanese leave the shore immediately.

---

Mike Rosoft 14:12, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

"Fillius Sum Sunamus"

Arrant nonsense in the opening graf. Argh. 128.2.247.61 07:01, 12 November 2007 (UTC)...

Pronunciation

Both the Oxford English Dictionary and American Heritage Dictionary only list the "tsunami" pronunciation. They do not even have a "sunami" pronunciation therefore the "tsunami" pronunciation is first. Azalea pomp (talk) 17:00, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

I removed the 'sunami' pronunciation. It's incorrect. Oda Mari (talk) 18:24, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Tidal Wave Vs. Tsunami

I would like someone to explain to me why "Tsunami" and not "Tidal Wave". I know the second is caused by the tides of the moon, but considering Tsunami is mentioned as meaning "Harbor Wave", I cannot see why use it except political correctness. If I'm wrong, okay. Thank you.--65.24.61.74 (talk) 23:58, 15 February 2008 (UTC) STRodgers