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September 3

Who do we call to fix our tv?

My roommates and I bought a projection screen tv for our apartment, and when trying to adjust the conversion settings, we screwed it up pretty good, and dont know how to fix it. Well, we know how, but we're not any good at it and dont have the time to put into it. Are there any professionals we can call to do the adjustments for us? If so, how much would it cost? thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.131.182.228 (talk) 02:28, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

First off I would try finding some sort of reset command in the menu system. That would at least get it back to factory settings and every projector I've ever used had one. Then I think you can try again - make small changes - read the manual. Failing that, I'm sure the store you bought it from has some kind of installation service you could probably try. (Of course if you bought it online...ah...not so good.) SteveBaker (talk) 04:09, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Search for "TV Calibration", perhaps with your city added as an additional search term. Such services aren't inexpensive - on the order of US$300 or more. --LarryMac | Talk 12:24, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm - might want to avoid Circuit City: [1]. SteveBaker (talk) 05:56, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Yahoo TV

How do you create a new television show page on Yahoo TV? 66.53.208.46 (talk) 02:38, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

yes, i can, but im not going to. TV rots the brain, crap collected by the eyes to pollute the mind. do it yourself, its easy enough —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 09:55, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Seriously, 193...what kind of a response is this? The OP didn't ask "you" to create a page or your opinion of TV. Hopefully someone can help? cheers, 10draftsdeep (talk) 12:47, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

193's views on television made me laugh. Not sure you can make or edit pages there like on Wikipedia. They have a suggestion page where you could ask them. Personally I'd go to IMDB though. JessicaThunderbolt 17:40, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

I think 193 was taking literally the term "how do you create" - I would think that, by the age of having the typing and verbal skills to write that, 193 would have heard that term used so often that, even with very severe Asperger's Syndrome, he or she would know at least from reasoning it out that it wasn't asking 193 to make one. However, maybe that's not the case; I'm only familiar with the very mild cases.Somebody or his brother (talk) 23:21, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Putting on my most severe Aspie hat: I read "How do you create..." - and the only super-literal responses to that are "I do it like this <useful response>" or "I have tried but failed - so I have no answer." or "I have never tried - so I have no answer." - (and of course if you have no answer - why answer?) there is no interpretation of the question, no matter how literal, for which "Yes, I can, but I'm not going to" is meaningful. So I don't think we need to "play the Aspie card" here. But that's OK - we're already ignoring this annoying person. SteveBaker (talk) 01:56, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Name of game

I can't remember a name of a computer game I used to play as a kid. You were this bug or frog thing and had to jump from lily pad to lily pad as they got smaller and smaller. I believe the game was is another language (like Russian or something). And I’m pretty sure it was shareware. Any ideas? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.202.144.223 (talk) 04:16, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Frogger? Corvus cornix_talk 04:17, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the fast response... but no. not frogger. it had an odd name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.202.144.223 (talk) 04:25, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Arrgh! I remember the game, but not the name - maybe it'll come to me later if I stop thinking about it for a while... AndrewWTaylor (talk) 07:39, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Would it be Perestroika (video game)? Deor (talk) 11:45, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

That's certainly the one I was thinking of (as Toppler). AndrewWTaylor (talk)

Yes that's the one!! Thanks heaps it was really bugging me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.202.144.223 (talk) 22:25, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Environmentalism is a SCAM?

[ Soap-Boxing trolling deleted. ]

I'm positive that almost this exact question is asked on a regular basis, but I can't seem to find it in the archives. Odd. APL (talk) 13:08, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

It usually gets deleted. Adam Bishop (talk) 14:38, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

How about deleting again? Doesn't seem like a serious question. · AndonicO ^Engage. 14:42, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't know, because the question was deleted. Never mind... 90.212.195.123 (talk) 00:50, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

organ

Hello and good morning im from united kingdom and very obliged if u can give me some information if u could or put me in touch with some one who can. I purchased an organ a few days ago and been trying to get some information about its age (I think 1987)I now this perticolour model is an old one.on one end of the organ it says howard and the other side says skyliner so maybe skyliner is the make ? I have looked on internet and found that howard does or was involved in this make skyliner I also want to now how much something of this age and make is worth today If u can help in any way I will be very happy to hear your comments Thank you mick —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.238.165.43 (talk) 11:33, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

"Howard" seems to be a brand-name used by the Baldwin Piano Company for some of their organs. DuncanHill (talk) 11:40, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

I doubt that a 1980's era electric organ will be worth very much. If you search for "Baldwin Organ" on eBay, you see them show up with a $50 asking price. I just searched and found one at $30. I used to have a 1980's era organ - I don't remember the maker - but it was a fairly typical dual manual with bunches of stops and a couple of octaves of foot-pedals - and a "Lesley" rotating speaker so you can play "I do like to be beside the seaside" in the cheesiest possible way! Mine was given to me for $0.00 by someone who didn't have room for it anymore. When I needed to get rid of it because I needed the space, I was unable to sell it at any price - and I ended up giving it away - AND agreeing to deliver the damned thing for $0.00. Baldwin isn't a super-special name in musical instruments - so unless this one has some special history or is in some other way special - I doubt it's worth much...I hope you didn't pay a lot for it! SteveBaker (talk) 18:36, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Photos

I am looking for a site containing old sepia style photos, preferably of old people in a rural setting. Altrernatively I am looking for a website with award winning photographs, as many as possible. Sepia orange brown old ones are preferred though. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 14:48, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

The website Flickr has billions of photos and you can search by 'tags' - a search for "sepia portrait rural" brings only 98 results (http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=sepia%20portrait%20rural&w=all) but I suspect you could find some nice photos using a variety of searches. ny156uk (talk) 15:24, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

google images has a few, also try Wikimedia Commons. JessicaThunderbolt 17:28, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

The Library of Congress has a website called American Memory [2] with many thousands of images, including photos of people in rural settings. Try the search terms photograph rural and you will get 1300 such images. I believe they include high detail scans of the originals,which should include the sepia toning for original prints, but not for scanned negatives, but my present computer is unable to open them. They include lots of depression-era photos by noted photographer Dorothea Lange. You can "tone" the images with Photoshop. Edison2 (talk) 18:32, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

SAMURI SWORD- THE 19th year of SHOWA with the name of KANEMUNE

I have a SWORD with the name KANEMUNE on it and it is of the 19th year of SHOWA. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.242.193.64 (talk) 19:02, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

The Shōwa period in Japan began in 1926 (it is the name given to the reign of Hirohito). DuncanHill (talk) 19:09, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

And this page [3] has some more information about a sword by Kanemune. DuncanHill (talk) 19:11, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Pig iron

The page about Pig iron says that it is made by pigs. This seems unlikely but is it true? Or has someone playing a joke there? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cat choir (talk • contribs) 19:17, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

It was vandalism and has been reverted. DuncanHill (talk) 19:19, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Lol, the wording was exactly the same as that from episode 7 of Look Around You. JessicaThunderbolt 19:59, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

There is pig iron, and there are Iron Pigs. — Michael J 07:43, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

World History Honors

What was the slogan for the Thermopylae? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.4.242.33 (talk) 22:51, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

You'll have to be more specific than that. What do you mean? Dienekes' statement that the Spartans would "fight in the shade" when Persian arrows blocked out the sun? The epitaph erected later, "Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that here obedient to their laws we lie"? Something else? Adam Bishop (talk) 07:42, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

gluten allergies

My son was recently diagnosed with a gluten allergy, the doctor said it was the protein in the wheat that he is allergic to. Could he have gluten free breads instead of avoiding wheat products all together? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ks614 (talk • contribs) 23:16, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

We do not give medical advice. But gluten free products exist in the marketplace exactly for people who have gluten allergies. In my experience, fwiw, everyone I know with a gluten intolerance also has a yeast intolerance (sample size: 2). --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:20, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

(Not medical advice--personal experience only.) I did a gluten free diet a few years ago, didn't eat any wheat at all. After nine-months, my allergies were pretty much gone... · AndonicO ^Engage. 23:22, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

I was under the impression that "gluten free bread" was not actually a wheat product. Unless this is something new I'm not aware of, I think that if you examine the ingredients label you'll find that it's made from rice flour and not wheat flour. APL (talk) 23:53, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Gluten-free diet may be of interest. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:00, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

There is a wide range of sensitivities that can be avoided by removing all wheat products from the diet. Sometimes this is more than is necessary, but it's generally sufficient. I've got a familial sensitivity to bread wheat and durum wheat, for example, but I'm unaffected by spelt, so I get to have the occasional sandwich, and I've learned about the pleasures (mixed) of rice-based pasta. Do what the doctor says, of course. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 15:52, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Weird "Countries" listed in enewsletter subscription drop down menu

While subscribing to an enewsletter, I was asked to select my country of residence from a drop down menu. While I'm used to seeing odd "countries" like Bouvet Island (uninhabited) listed in these menus, this particular menu listed, amongst others Al Hucemas Island (population approx 50), Canary Island (sic), French West Indies, St Croix, Malagasy, Luanda, Orkney Island (sic), Coco Island, Chaferinas Island (sic), Carcos Island, Channel Island (sic), Crete, Zaire (name changed to Democratic Republic of the Congo a good decade or so back), Borneo, British West Indies, Pacific Islands, Aden, Pheonix Island and Gilbert Island. Some of these aren't political units, were the former names for current countries or are basically unihabited. Why on earth would a company list them as a possible nation a subscriber would hail from? Is it an injoke by the site developers or are they somewhat confused about geography? --Roisterer (talk) 23:24, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Depending on your definition, there could be anywhere from 192 to 245 or more "countries" (according to List of countries). Vetting each of them and adding them by hand is something that a manager of an eNewsletter is unlikely to do. The list of countries was probably obtained from a third party, who probably got it from another party, who got it from etc., etc., with people altering it along the way to adjust to modern changes, local norms, and the purpose that the list was meant to serve. (e.g. No one noticed that the list was out of date since Zaire changed names. The Channel Islands may have been added by someone who thought the UK/Channel island distinction was important, but the Guernsey/Jersey distinction (and proper pluralization) wasn't. A resident of Saint Croix may have been indignant at being lumped together with the rest of the USA, and insisted that the list manager put Saint Croix in as a separate entity.) Or it may be that when compiling the list, a set of separate lists were combined uncritically. (e.g. Someone may have come across the list of Dependent territories, and added all of them, even though some, like Bouvet Island, are uninhabited.) I doubt it's an in-joke; it's more likely laziness/sloppiness on the part of the list compiler, made "acceptable" by the fact that as long as the country they're from is on the list, most people don't care that some non-country is on there too. -- 128.104.112.147 (talk) 23:55, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Amazingly, almost all of these websites (I have only seen one exception) list 'Antarctica' as an option (Neopets has 'Antarctic Lands'), despite only about 30 people living there. I always choose this unless it's important. :P Avnas Ishtaroth _{drop me a line} 01:05, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Antarctica has rather more than 30 people, although it varies by season; see Demographics of Antarctica. You might be thinking of the rather small number of people who winter over at the South Pole, but there's more people in the milder coastal regions of the continent. -- Coneslayer (talk) 11:13, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Hanlon's razor - Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. --Tagishsimon (talk) 11:15, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

September 4

Meth and Attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder

Why are Methamphetamine- a stimulant- derivatives used to treat Attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder- a disorder characterized by restlessness? Wouldn't methamphetamine just increase the severity of the symptoms? Acceptable (talk) 00:44, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Stimulants, like the amphetamines, can, in lower doses than drug addicts use, improve concentration. Even among recreational uses of meth concentration is not the issue though from the stereotypical "tweaker" image you would think otherwise. People on meth can famously spend hours doing entirely uninteresting tasks and be perfectly happy. A famous example from the Warhol "Factory" was someone who took the time to meticulously apply postage stamps to an entire wall. I imagine it is somewhat similar, though reduced in effect, for prescription amphetamines. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 01:25, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Best Tickets?

I'm looking to buy tickets to the Dashboard Confessional concert in either Minneapolis, MN or Rosemont, IL (they are on Oct 21 and 22, respectively). I plan on using Ticketmaster to purchase my tickets. When I search for tickets on the site, I have consistently stuck to using "Best Available" when asked where I would like to be seated. The options that I have were the Ground floor (General Admission) and Section 138 (for the MN show), and section 115 for the Rosemont show. The problem is that I've never been to a concert, and I don't know which seats/tickets are better. Could you guys please help me? Thanks! P.S. I looked for pictures to help show me the location I would be at, but I couldn't find any. --71.98.0.102 (talk) 00:58, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

What are the names of the two venues? If you can give us those, someone might be able to find a seating plan which would help. General Admission normally means the standing area, so if you like standing at a concert, you might want to go for that option. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 10:28, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Here's the seating chart for the Target Center in Minneapolis for the Rock Band Live show and here's the chart for the show in the Allstate Arena in Rosemont. Laenir (talk) 17:38, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

People

I am trying to find pictures of old people in sepia, from every race on earth, maybe thats wrong, allow me to expand on that theme. I have a picture of an old Irish woman, a Native american man, I need a picture of an Oriental person, and African Person. In the least racist terms I have a White, a Red person. I want what I am doing to relate to any one that picks it up, who am I missing, broadly speaking. And where can I find them? Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 12:01, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

You can try a Google image search, and restrict your searches to faces. Depending on what you want to use the images for, there may be copyright restrictions on the images you find (check the websites the images come from). Alternatively, you can search on Flickr, again, respecting copyright if applicable. — QuantumEleven 12:38, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Am I correct in assuming that all images on Wikipedia, have no copyright? I can use them at will? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 13:30, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

This is incorrect. Some images, but far from all, are public domain. Most images are freely usable in some form, but may require attribution or other conditions. Some are not usable except under fair use criteria. In all cases, the copyright status of an image should be laid out on the image page (click the image in question to go to it). — Lomn 13:43, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

There is also Wikimedia Commons; Sepia in commons. - Phydaux (talk) 14:07, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

All photos in Wikicommons are copyright free - but not all on Wikipedia are. When you want to use a picture from Wikipedia, you need to go to the image's own page and scroll down until you find the copyright statement. It should make it clear whether the image is freely usable (for one reason or another) or has restrictions - or is basically not usable except under "fair use". Whether YOU can use an image under fair use depends on an awful lot of things - so beware! SteveBaker (talk) 18:24, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

A minor quibble, Steve. While all images on the Wikimedia Commons are either public domain or available under a free license, images in the latter category are not 'copyright free'. Their owners still retain copyright over the images, but allow distribution under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, one of the Creative Commons licenses, or some other free license. These 'free' or 'copyleft' licenses may impose conditions on how you reuse or relicense any copies or derivative works that you might create. Public domain images are free to use for any purpose. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 18:33, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

You might also be interested in Race (classification of human beings). Most people would not agree that having pictures of "every race on earth" means having a picture of a white person, a black person, a Native American and an Asian person. --Allen (talk) 18:30, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Concentration & Motivation Question

I am having a slight problem with a story I am trying to write. One of the characters has trouble with concentration and motivation, and a friend of theirs, who had the same trouble a few years earlier, has created a little book made up of a mixture of pages printed from the internet and typed pages of useful stuff she had found through her experience and research. However I feel the story would seem a bit odd if I didn't at least mention some of the advice the book gave her, but since I have hardly been able to think of anything to include, I was hoping someone here might be able to help me come up with some ideas, just a few things that this character could do occasionally that might help.92.21.50.138 (talk) 18:32, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Sorry - I can't be bothered to answer your...er...whatever.

It seems odd that someone with a lack of concentration and motivation would have gone to all the trouble to research the problem...much less make a book of the stuff. But concentration can be "fixed" chemically - some of the Adult attention-deficit disorder (AADD) drugs are effective. Lack of motivation often correlates with depression - so again, anti-depression treatments might be effective. But I kinda sense you're looking for "self-help" solitions. Strategies for overcoming writer's block looks relevent. Many of those techniques would help concentration/motivation. Motivation and Attention both make interesting reading. SteveBaker (talk) 18:50, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Another idea when considering advice your characters will give/receive is, what are their occupations? What is it that is making things difficult for the reciever of the info - is he/she trapped in a job that is requiring too much concentration? Colin Cowherd spoke on his ESPN radio program a few months back about how he felt he might have ADD, and that his job was the perfect fit for him because he could talk a lot and never stay long on the same subject. Along with him, your helper might look into other famous people with ADD, which might be on the ADD page.Somebody or his brother (talk) 23:08, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

If the booklet is of stuff he found on the internet, why don't you just google concentration and motivation and sum up a little of what comes up (assuming it's established, generally known, not copyrighted information)? - Lambajan 01:49, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

You could summarize/paraphrase the contents of those pages without infringing copyright though. I agree - you should pretend you are de-motivated and having trouble keeping focus - and actually do what your character is supposed to have done. A couple of hours work will tell you much more and give your writing the feel of reality - because it IS reality. (Or MAYBE that's what you're doing right now! Why wouldn't your character ask a question on the Wikipedia Reference desk? I think we all need to see that in your book!) SteveBaker (talk) 02:46, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, the character should write to the reference desk "Give 100 words on modivation plz site ur refs." Then later she can say that when we told her to "do your own homework" it changed her entire life. She finally realized that there's some things she needs to be able to rely on herself to do, etc. We'll probably joke that we hope this is the same one who wants to blow up Sumatra and she can start by spelling out her words completely. - Lambajan 20:12, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

GPS turned off for a country?

I used a Garmin Legend ( [4] ) in a lot of places in Africa. The device worked everywhere except Egypt where I couldn't get a signal. After Googling I find GPS is illegal in Egypt but nothing is mentioned about a switch hit for the entire country. There is nothing in my manual or notice from my device that says Garmin voluntarily blocked. So what happened?

Lotsofissues 22:47, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

It is possible to jam GPS signals; they're relatively weak by the time they arrive at ground level. This wouldn't "turn it off" within the precise borders of the country, but if a government wanted to they could set up a series of jamming transmitters to ensure that signals were mostly blocked through most of their territory. It seems unlikely (from my superficial understanding of GPS) that anything could be done to the satellite signals themselves to blot out a certain area (the signals aren't directional and each footprint will cover way more than that area). I guess the receiver refusing to give a position when it knows it's within certain boundaries is possible (it's the technically easiest of the approaches) but I haven't heard of such. If a manufacturer did do this I wouldn't necessarily expect them to mention it in the manual of a device sold elsewhere in the world - it can only look bad on them. 81.187.153.189 (talk) 23:12, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Link to article on jamming a GPS signal. It was sent to me by a guy that I know online who works with the GPS satellites. Dismas|^(talk) 01:15, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

There is something wrong here.

1. GPS is illegal in Egypt - but that law must be very widely ignored. There are numerous web hits for GPS being used by Egyptologists and pyramid hunters. I found this web site: [5] which specifically provides GPS units and digital maps for Egypt.
2. All I can find about jamming is some attempts by the Afghan army to do it when the Taliban were in control. The idea of jamming to prevent your opponents from using GPS to shoot guided missiles at you is "busted" because the US was easily able to take out the jamming units by the simple act of having their missiles home in on the jamming signal. It seems that anti-radar missiles are perfectly capable of taking out GPS jamming stations. So it's REALLY unlikely that Egypt would continue to do it for military reasons. It's very easy to jam GPS's - but you couldn't confine that jamming to just the borders of your country - it would either spill over into places like international waters and airspace (which would be REALLY dangerous!) or it would have to be limited to only working (perhaps) around your major cities. But nowadays, so many things rely on GPS (ships, planes, cars, mobile phones) that I doubt they'd really do that. Finally - I'd bet good money that the Egyptian army/navy/airforce relies as heavily on GPS as every other army in the world. That's a BIG desert to get lost in! So they won't jam it for fear of messing up their own troop movements.
3. There have been stories about some GPS manufacturers deliberately having them "turn off" when within specific areas of the world. Garmin might have agreed to do that - but I'm surprised there would be no message on your unit when it happened. But I can think of no reason for Garmin to do this - what do they care what Egypt do? They already aren't allowed to sell their units there - why would they care what stupid laws Egypt would pass? That's really stretching it...plus I get no search results from trying to find someone who says that Garmin GPS's don't work in Egypt...only that they are (technically) illegal.
4. So what about the US denying service to Egyptians? Nope - that's impossible. The way the system works, (and I'm simplifying here) is that each of the 30 or so satellites sends a super-accurate radio "clock" out in all directions to anyone who happens listening. By measuring the delay between the clocks of however many satellites happen to be nearby - and knowing where the satellites are in their orbits - the GPS unit can figure out where it is. So it's impossible to "shut it off" for any particular country - because even in the middle of Egypt, you are looking at the exact same satellites you'd be seeing in all of the neighboring countries.
5. A Google search on "GPS illegal Egypt" turns up lots of people saying that (a) they have used them successfully there and (b) that GPS's are easily available on the black market in Egypt. That says quite clearly that GPS's DO work in Egypt.

So I'm betting that you simply didn't wait long enough for the unit to "find" the satellites. When you turn off the GPS, then pick it up, put it in a plane and move it a few thousand miles, then when you turn back it on, it thinks it's been mysteriously "teleported" and it can take a LONG time (like 15 minutes) to find the satellites again. It first looks where it thinks they ought to be - based on wherever it was when you last had it turned on - and the current time/date. But when it fails to find them there, it has NO CLUE where the satellites are, it can take a very long time to relocate enough of them to begin navigating again. If you get impatient and turn it off again before you get at least a four-satellite lock, then the process starts again from scratch when you turn it back on again. It tells you that right there in the GPS manual - and I'd bet good money that this is what happened to you.

SteveBaker (talk) 01:38, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, this depends on the unit somewhat. It's a little misleading to talk about the unit "finding" the satellites (as far as I know its antenna is nondirectional). What it's doing, during that time, is downloading their ephemerides (it can't use the data from a satellite unless it knows an up-to-date ephemeris for it -- doesn't do you any good to know "I'm 125734 meters from point A" unless you know where point A is). Better receivers do a better job of caching the ephemerides (and maybe extrapolating from them? not really sure on that point). Then if you've seen that satellite recently, even if it was thousands of miles from where you are now, you should still be able to make sense of its datastream.

I don't think it takes very long to download each individual ephemeris; it's just that each satellite broadcasts its ephemeris only every five minutes or so. So you have to wait until you've collected enough of them. --Trovatore (talk) 07:59, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Hmm -- I may have had this a little wrong. Our GPS article says the ephemerides are sent out every 30 seconds. Not too sure exactly what the receiver is doing during those minutes. Maybe trying to tune the satellites in. I still don't think it's right to say it's "looking" for them as that seems to imply directionality. If it had to know the exact direction to the satellite then you'd be in danger of losing the lock just by moving the receiver. --Trovatore (talk) 09:18, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

A comment on GPS jamming - it would be profoundly stupid for a country to jam GPS signals except in wartime, as commercial aircraft use GPS to navigate. Unless they want to shut down their airline industry (and force aircraft to detour around their territory)... — QuantumEleven 10:05, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

GPS jamming isn't detrimental to civil aviation, they still have VOR, NDB, DME, INS, ILS... Is GPS even in wide spread use in civil aviation right now? --antilived^{T | C | G} 01:31, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

I need advice, counsel, guidance...

Hi all. I've finally signed up for a real WikiID, and this is my first post using my new name. And, I need some advice, some "other factors to consider" in making a what's going to be a fairly significant decision in my life.

Something (which doesn't belong there) is growing in my head, and I'm not going to tell you exactly what so that you can't give me any medical advice. Nonetheless, it's below the brain and approaching the brainstem, so clearly it's a long way in from wherever one might start digging or drilling. It's noncancerous, and is growing slowly, but in the next 3-5 years, it will have to be killed or removed.

If I elect removal, I have the choice of two surgical teams in the region, both of whom I have visited, and both of whom seem competent enough. Both report that they perform about 100 of these operations per year -- two per week! The major difference is that one team is a couple of older guys, who have done this procedure a gazillion times; the other is two guys in their 30s whose education might be considered more "state of the art", or at least more recent. One team works at a University Medical Center, the other from a well-known Clinic.

For the life of me, I can't think of any other criteria or evaluation or questions to ask. Are there some among you who have faced a similar quandry; who have had some related experience you'd like to share; or who learned something (even after the fact), and said "If only I had asked...". Am I fretting over things are aren't relevant? Bottom line, I'm having a-hell-of-a-time just thinking about how to make this decision, more than actually making it. -- DaHorsesMouth (talk) 23:49, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Have you asked the two teams? Let them each make their case (assuming they both recommend themselves) and go with the one you find most convincing. One thing I'll point out is that a doctor's eduction does not stop when they leave Med School, or even once they finish specialising, the older doctors will have continued to learn new techniques as they are developed, so that probably isn't a significant issue. --Tango (talk) 00:15, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

OK - we CAN'T give medical advice. We can, however, give statistical advice...which is what I'm doing below:

• The critical question to ask of the two teams of surgeons is: "What is your success rate?" - they must know this - and I'd hope they'd be able to give you exact numbers. Assuming that even the younger team has done enough operations to produce statistically meaningful data, that's really the only number you care about. I guess you also need to know their definition of "success" - does it mean "survival for at least 1 year" or does it mean "survival with all faculties intact, no paralysis, etc for at least 10 years"? When my wife was pregnant with my son, she needed an amniocentesis, we asked the "What is your success rate?" question of three different guys and (to my surprise) they were all happy to tell us their scores - both over the long term and the short term. There was a significant degree of variation - so we went with the one who had the best success rate...why wouldn't you?!

• Then of course, there is always the question of risk versus benefit. Obviously neither I nor anyone else here knows either of those things (and if we did, we couldn't tell you because that would be giving medical advice. But if the risk is large and the benefit small - then maybe you don't want to do it at all.

A couple of years ago, I went almost completely deaf in one ear (for no well-understood reason). They did a brain scan. This told them nothing whatever about my deafness (Doh!) - but turned up the deeply terrifying news that I have a 1cmx1cmx2cm "growth" deep in my brain that's pressing against my temporal lobe. My immediate reactions was "Yikes! When do you operate?" - the answer to which was: "Never!". The risk of operating would be really high - and fortunately - it seems (from what they can see of how the brain has developed around the growth) that it's been there and has been about that same size since I was a teenager - so the "benefit" is zero. Removing it would not only be exceedingly dangerous - but even a successful operation might result in "personality changes". Yikes! But the point is that if it had been "caught early" I'd probably have had to have it removed when I was a teenager before anyone could tell how dangerous it was. If that had happened, I probably wouldn't have been any better off...zip, zero. Clearly, your case is totally different - but the message is that you have to trade outcome versus risk. Of course my wife wonders whether those "personality changes" might not be beneficial...and since she's an Operating Department Nurse with neuro speciality, I have to keep a careful eye on her and my power tools after we have any major arguments! Personally, I think it's a Brain slug (NO ITS DEFINITELY NOT).

SteveBaker (talk) 00:46, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

You need to be careful with success rates. For something like an amniocentesis, every one is pretty much the same (I'm sure there is some variation, but the principle is constant), the brain surgery it's different every time depending on exactly where whatever it is is positioned. You need the one most likely to succeed in your case which isn't necessarily the same as the one that succeeds most often. --Tango (talk) 00:56, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Interestingly enough, the Freakonomics blog just did a writeup on success rates and risk-vs-reward for amniocentesis. — Lomn 12:54, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I can offer a professional statistician's perspective on success rates. These may be misleading because one group may be choosing to take on more "risky" cases that the other group declines to operate on. So the "better" group may well end up having a lower overall success rate than the other group. Statistical analysis of this tends to get very tricky: gathering data is an ethical minefield. HTH, Robinh (talk) 14:08, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps relevant: the book Complications discusses the interesting case of the Shouldice Hospital, which runs a "hernia factory": all the surgeons do all day long is repair hernias. Compared to the average hernia repair, they do it for half the price, in half the time, and have 1/10th to 1/20th the failure rate. --Sean 15:15, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

September 5

Candidate death

What would happen if McCain or Obama died between now and the November election? Would the parties just switch to their VP picks? Would there have to be some kind of nominating process again? Maybe this has never happened and it's unanswerable- so has it happened in the past? Nadando (talk) 03:00, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Probably depends on the parties' bylaws; someone else may be able to answer that. But you might see Mel Carnahan for some sort of similar case, not necessarily a precedent given the rather different circumstances. --Trovatore (talk) 03:41, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

If there is time to change the ballot, then the party's bylaws would be relevant, if not, I'm not sure they would have much say (directly, at least - the electors come from the party, so could be persuaded even if they can't be ordered to vote a particular way). --Tango (talk) 03:43, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

According to President-elect, if the elected president dies after the the election and after the Electoral College meet, then the VP becomes president at the end of the last president's term. If a candidate dies before that, but after the election, then it would be up to the electoral college to decide. I believe some states have laws requiring electors to vote for the person they pledged to vote for, which would be impossible if they were dead. The laws may say what to do in case of death, but if not it would be a personal choice, I think. If they die before the election, there may be time for the party to select a new candidate, if not, there is precedent for a candidate to be on the ballot posthumously, in which case I think it would be up to the electors again. See U.S. Electoral College#Death or unsuitability of a candidate for a little information on the subject. --Tango (talk) 03:43, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

A nit: The electoral college (as a whole) doesn't meet at all. --Trovatore (talk) 03:52, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Fair point. "Meet" in a metaphorical sense - all cast their votes. --Tango (talk) 03:56, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

The 1872 election found Horace Greeley die between the election and the casting of votes by the Electoral College; it wasn't as important becuase Grant won handily, but while a lot voted for the V.P nominee, not all did.

I agree that otherwise, if it's too soon before the election, voters may simply be asked to vote for the Vice Presidential candidate as President; perhaps he or she would come on and make a speech and announce that they were going to be running. That would be the simplest solution, anyway, as the two are on together as a ticket.Somebody or his brother (talk) 16:46, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Check on what the Democratic Party did in 1972 when Thomas Eagleton was hounded into withdrawing as their Vice President nominee because he had been treated for depression. The Presidential nominee, George McGovern, selected a replacement Vice President candidate, Sargent Shriver, who had not been one of the top 70 vote-getters in the Vice Presidential balloting. Shriver got fewer Vice President votes at the convention than did Mao Zedong (who was not eligible). The choice of Shriver was confirmed in a special meeting of the Democratic National Committee. Unless the rules have changed, such a national body of party leaders might be able to meet and select a new nominee for President as well, should the presidential candidate die before the general election, and in time to prepare new ballots and program voting machines. It might be the Vice Presidential nominee, or more likely one of the other leading candidates for the presidential nomination, setting up a possible divided administration, if the vice president candidate allied with the deceased presidential nominee stayed on the ticket in the number two spot. Apparently the election could proceed with the dead person's name on the ballot, and the electors would then have to work out a replacement. This would be greatly to the detriment of the party with the dead candidate, because the electors would likely split their votes among various favorites, making it very difficult to win. Could this result in a split victory, with the Vice President of one party and the President from the other? The Vive President from the deceased candidate's party might get all that party's electoral votes, with two or more getting the dead candidate's presidential electoral votes, throwing the presidential election into the House. All very complicated. Edison (talk) 18:29, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

What suburbs exactly belong to the North Shore suburbs in Chicago exactly?

It is currently stated in this article that only the suburbs built before 1963 when the "Chicago North Shore and Milwaukee Railroad" was taken down are considered to be the North Shore suburbs. Are there any reliable official sources (beside Wikipedia) which would indicate which are the suburbs which are considered to be North Shore suburbs or is it open for interpretation? Acidburn24m (talk) 05:50, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

The article includes words like "X is considered by some to be part" of the North Shore suburbs. My guess, for what it's worth, is that NSS is an elastic term, often stretched by real estate agents hoping to increase the perceived value of an address. In the Washington DC area, "Greater Potomac" (Maryland) at times seems to encompass everything this side of West Virginia. — OtherDave (talk) 15:52, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

The real bright line definition seems to be that it has to be (1) a community (town or village), (2) in Illinois, (3)north of Chicago, and (4)adjoining Lake Michigan. It appears that towns to the west, which do not touch Lake Michigan, are wanna be's, so as to get more for the real estate. There is nothing "official" about it, since they are not in the same county or political, voting, taxing or zoning unit. Maybe their being stops on a defunct train line counts for something, but it seems a reach. Are there any communities left out because they did not have a train stop on the defunct line? Edison (talk) 18:05, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

That would be a hard criterion to test by. The North Shore Line had an awful lot of stations on it, like most of the interurbans, and I doubt any significant populated place was missed. There are a couple of counterexamples: Mundelein and (especially) Skokie, which both were served by the railroad, but neither of which seem to be considered North Shore towns. Morrand (talk) 18:34, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

The problem here is that there are several different ways of defining this, depending on where you're coming from. So, for instance, if you look at the "Chicago North Shore and Milwaukee Railroad", it would restrict the communities to only those served by that line, or close to it. However, there is also another usage of the term "North Shore", which implies a class distinction, since typically the North Shore neighborhoods are very affluent. There is a certain air of snobbishness in something being called "North Shore". This usage, then, would be a lot more difficult to pin down where precisely the lines are drawn, since there are also some fairly poor towns along the Lake Michigan shoreline between Chicago and Kenosha, Wisconsin. Saying that someone is from the North Shore, therefore, has different meanings, and is not something that can be completely and accurately defined in a simple way. Saukkomies 16:23, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

comparison of the effectiveness between television and internet

comparison of the effectiveness between television and internet in terms of content,accesbility,credibility,popularity and entertainment value —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nkds21 (talk • contribs) 05:49, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Compare the effectiveness of doing your own homework as opposed to getting others to do it for you. Clarityfiend (talk) 06:05, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

In the spirit of being helpful (and directing people to resources is fine for homework too). Have you looked through the articles Television and Internet, then also places such as Global internet usage and the article Internet culture and its category (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Internet_culture) will help. Obviously you can make your own theories/ideas about this - you can compare the number of hits a popular internet-site gets versus the viewing figures for major tv shows. You could use the analogy that the internet is a pull-medium whilst tv is a push-medium (e.g. news online is a case of finding the articles that interest you, whereas on tv the news-broadcast shows you what the station believe is the 'main' news - so whilst information on most news-events exists online, only a small portion will be played out on daily news on tv). Above all - be thankful that you have a reasonably interesting question to answer, rather than some of the essay questions I get in my course which at times make me wish I hadn't chosen to do politics! 194.221.133.226 (talk) 08:02, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

"The internet is much more effective than television as a means to ask people for help with a homework assignment." A+ — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 09:15, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Queen Salote Coronation 1953 companion

Queen Salote was accompanied by a tiny man dressed in a frock coat and spats in her open carrige in the Coronation Procession. Who was the man? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rstorey (talk • contribs) 10:35, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Her lunch (according to Noël Coward). -- JackofOz (talk) 10:38, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Ah! I jut hit edit to add that, but I see Jack got in first. (For full quote, see Queen Salote). Gwinva (talk) 10:40, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

The Master denied saying it (while wishing he had), ascribing the line to "a member of White's" DuncanHill (talk) 10:46, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

All very interesting, but we still haven't answered the question Nil Einne (talk) 04:11, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Queen Salote seems to have been 1.91m / 6' 3" tall. The chap on her side (about half a head shorter on one photo) would not have been tiny but of more than average height. Which does not answer your question, either. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 21:43, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Sunset timing

This could be a coincidence/nothign, but I was looking on BBC weather and noticed that the sunset time was dropping every day by 2 minutes (19.39, 19.37, 19.35, 19.33). From looking at sunset and some of the articles around it I couldn't see if this is some sort of 'average' (i.e. as it recedes each sunset is approx 2 minutes earlier in the evening) or whether it varies and reduces slower sometimes and faster others. I did see the little 'map' thing in the top-corner of one of the pages but it doesn't make a great deal of sense. Anyone? 194.221.133.226 (talk) 11:28, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm not certain exactly what doesn't make sense -- that the time of sunset changes or the amount it changes by. Anyway, the time of sunset certainly shifts: it's a function of the Earth's axial tilt as it orbits the sun. In the summer the sun is more nearly overhead (though never fully so as far north as the UK) than in the winter and thus traverses a longer arc across the sky. The Earth's speed of rotation doesn't change, so a longer arc means a longer day. As we're moving from summer to winter, we're seeing shorter days, so sunset is progressively earlier.

Regarding the amount of time that sunset progresses and regresses, I expect (though I'm not certain) that this is a sinusoid function. When near the solstices, there's very little change in the noontime position of the sun from day to day. However, near the equinoxes (such as is the case now), there's a comparatively large change. Two or even three minutes daily change is reasonable for a latitude as northerly as the UK, though it should drop back to one minute (or none) from day to day as December approaches. — Lomn 12:50, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Right, the rate at which the day grows shorter (and sunsets occur earlier) is greatest around the March and September equinoxes (that is, at this time of year). The rate of change is smallest at and around the June and December solstices. For very complicated reasons that I forget, the sun will set earlier and earlier until around 10 December, more than a week before the actual winter solstice. (Sunrise will get later and later until around January 6, more than a week after the solstice.) While the sun sets about 2 minutes earlier each day in the UK in September, the rate at which the sun sets earlier will decrease after equinox. By sometime in October, it will be setting only one minute or so earlier each day, and by early December, it will be setting only a few seconds earlier each day. Then, after about 10 December, the sun will start setting a few seconds later each day. By late January or so, it will be setting close to a minute later each day. By March, it will be setting about two minutes later each day. Sunset keeps getting later until June, but at a decelerating rate. And so on. A similar but inverse process happens with sunrise. Marco polo (talk) 20:34, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

At a guess, the reason that sunrise and sunset are on slightly different time cycles is probably a function of Earth's orbit being elliptical instead of circular. — Lomn 22:44, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

That might play a small part - but mostly it's because the sunrise time changes continually through the year - so between dawn on one day and dawn the next, the sunrise time has changed. Since the sunset time is somewhere between those two dawns - the sunrise time it's "opposite to" is not quite the same as either the dawn time on the same day or the dawn time on the next day. Ergo, sunrise and sunset cycles have to be shifted by roughly half a day. This would be true even if the earth's orbit was circular. SteveBaker (talk) 20:01, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

There is an absolutely wonderful phenomenon called the Analemma that shows how this works. If one was to set up a stationary camera that took a photograph of the sky where the sun would be at the same time every day, the result over a year long exposure would be that the sun would move around in what generally appears as a figure-8 in the sky. Now, there are some globes that are made that incorporate the Analemma on their surface - typically it's printed off the coast of Peru and Mexico. This same figure-8 diagram appears on the globe, and along its line is indicated what day of the year it is. How one uses such a tool is that if you take a particular day - say, September 11th - you can then find on the Analemma on the globe precisely where the sun will be directly overhead on the planet. You can further examine the Analemma on the globe and see very clearly that the months near the Equinoxes are stretched out along the figure-8 a lot further than the months near the Solstices. So, since we are approaching the Autumnal Equinox, which takes place on September 22nd, the sun is moving southward at a very rapid rate right now (which, again, you can determine from the Analemma on the globe). When we're in December there will be a dramatically smaller incremental change in the amount of time between sunrise and sunset each day (which will again be indicated on the Analemma). Saukkomies 16:32, 11 September 2008

walrus on a walrus on a walrus

I have seen a small baby walrus balanced on a large walrus.

how many walrus of different size can you stack, son? Bradley10 (talk) 13:34, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it's walruses all the way down. — Lomn 13:42, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Are you the egg man? --- OtherDave (talk) 21:51, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I am the walrus! DuncanHill (talk) 21:56, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I can't even lift one. How many can you stack? - Lambajan 03:08, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

It's important to know if any of the walruses has a bucket. --LarryMac | Talk 13:51, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I hear they're making them smaller these days...

Royal Schools

I took guitar lessons for years and my teacher graded us every now and then and at the end he gave us a certificate stating that we had achieved grade 8. I that was 10 years ago, I can play anything you give me to play. I am fully competant. However recently I have heard that the only recognized music exam grading system is Royal Schools. why is this? Does all my hard work count for nothing? How would I atain my grade 8? would I need to start from one going through RS? Will I need to learn to read music? does one need to pay RS for these exams? if so is this not a monopoly? 193.115.175.247 (talk) 16:21, 5 September 2008 (UTC)Jilted and annoyed —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 16:20, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

You haven't said what country you're in, but in the UK, the recognized music examination boards are the Associated Board of the Royal Schools of Music, Trinity Guildhall (formerly Guildhall and Trinity, which merged in 2007), London College of Music Examinations, and the National College of Music London. The Royal Schools are the largest, but by no means the only recognized board. Algebraist 16:34, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

(ec):According to our article, there are three examination boards in the UK. If your teacher gave you certificates he had run up on a laser printer, they're probably worthless. You infer you cannot read music - I'd have thought this was a prerequisite of getting a recognised musical grading. Your hard work does not count for nothing - you can play the guitar. What more do you want? If you want to pursue more formal guitar or musical education, you might well need to sit formal exams. And yes, all exam boards charge for their services. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:40, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

If memory serves, to get higher than grade 5, you have to take theory tests as well. Those would almost certainly require reading sheet music even if the practical guitar tests didn't. --Tango (talk) 18:36, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Tango's right. If you wish to sit a practical exam higher than Grade 5 for the Associated Board exam, you must have passed Grade 5 theory first. Karenjc 19:59, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Just to address the other issues you raise in your question, such exams are all about attaining a nationally recognised standard. Exams from boards like the Associated Board, LCM et al are no more of a monopoly then GCSEs or A-levels. I could go and learn French from the French lady up the road, and she could give me certificates to say how well I had done, but if I want a recognised qualification, I have to take a GCSE or similar in it. It wouldn't mean I wasn't any good at French - just that I didn't have the right piece of paper. And yes, of course you have to pay music exam fees, just as for any other recognised qualification including GCSEs and A-levels. (State-educated children's exam fees are paid by the school, but they aren't free, and independent schoolchildren and adults at night school, for example, get a bill for sitting their exam.) You need never sit a formal music exam if you don't want to, and all your hard work will be evidenced by your skill as a musician, not by some bit of paper. Karenjc 20:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

OP writes "I can play anything you give me to play" but then says "Will I need to learn to read music". If you can't read music how can you play anything that is given you to play? DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:27, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

USA line of succession and eligibility

The President and VP both have to be natural citizens over 35, but as far as I know this does not apply to the speaker of the house, the president pro tempore of the senate, or the cabinet members - so, what happens? Is the person in question just skipped, or is it a case that the rules don't cover (constitutional crisis)? --Random832 (contribs) 17:32, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Someone too young, or not "native born," or who has previously served 2 terms as President who was in the cabinet would be skipped over. It has been claimed that at big occasions when the cabinet is present, like an inauguration, there is an eligible cabinet member at a remote location inspecting a military base or some such. Edison (talk) 17:59, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

See Presidential line of succession#Notes. -- Coneslayer (talk) 18:12, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

This was the case with Madeleine Albright. From the article - "Not being a natural born citizen of the United States, she was not eligible as Presidential Successor and was excluded from nuclear contingency plans." She was born in Czechoslovakia --Bennybp (talk) 18:33, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

See also Designated survivor. Dismas|^(talk) 19:02, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Likewise, Henry Kissinger, born in Germany and secretary of state under Nixon and Ford. Since the Constitution requires the president to be a native born citizen, a foreign-born cabinet officer (or speaker of the house, or president pro tem of the Senate) would be ineligible for office. Regarding the "designated survivor," a standard bit of television commentary before a presidential address to a joint session of Congress is to identify who's absent for this reason. I see that in 2007, there were two: attorney general Alberto "I can't recall" Gonzales and Senator Robert Byrd, who was 90 years old at the time. --- OtherDave (talk) 22:09, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Does the policy of always having a designated survivor mean they never have full cabinet meetings? --Tango (talk) 05:03, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

As at least two people in the line of succession wouldn't have any reason to be present (the Speaker and President pro tempore), I'd say no--it's only at the State of the Union that you get everybody under the same roof and they need the contingency plan. Whether or not the Speaker and President pro tempore are actually constitutionally eligible to succeed is a much more interesting and complicated question (which I believe our article on the Presidential line of succession addresses, in part). User:Jwrosenzweig editing as 71.112.32.35 (talk) 05:37, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

I checked our article to be sure I was right--anyone interested in that constitutional argument re: the two members of Congress in the line can read more here. Nice to know that, in a crisis, we'd have a constitutional nightmare to work out. Thank goodness the U.S. Supreme Court has consistently demonstrated their ability to rise above partisan politics. ;-) User:Jwrosenzweig editing as 71.112.32.35 (talk) 05:41, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Is there a line of succession for the Supreme Court, to make sure that there is someone alive to sort out the constitutional nightmare? DuncanHill (talk) 09:43, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, if there is a vacancy on the Supreme Court, the position is filled by the nomination of the President and confirmation by the Senate. (If the Senate is willing, this can be quick - less than a month.) If the Senate is in recess, the President can make a recess appointment without Senate approval, which lasts until the next Senate election. -- 128.104.112.147 (talk) 22:13, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

But the nightmare is the lack of a president, so that doesn't really help (and I'm not sure the senate being wiped out counts as it being in recess, although they may be able to go into recess while inquorate, so that might not be a problem). I suppose the lack of a Supreme Court would mean that no-one could complain about people violating the constitution and whoever can rally enough support could just get on with the job of cleaning up the mess. --Tango (talk) 01:29, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Old BSA merit badge

Let's say I wanted my very own Boy Scouts of America "Atomic Energy" merit badge with the old-school AEC logo (not the new, boring "Nuclear Science" one). Where would I find such a thing? Ebay and the traditional locations seem out of luck; surely there must be some sort of Merit Badge wholesaler out there? Can one buy merit badges if one is not in the BSA? (At least, hasn't been for a decade) --98.217.8.46 (talk) 20:55, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

There is quite a community of Scouting badge & memorabilia traders and collectors, one place to start is [6]. DuncanHill (talk) 20:59, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I have that one- earned it in 1975 or so. No actual nuclear materials were involved. We take Scouts down to North Anna Nuclear Generating Station every few years to work on this one. There are a number of traders out there. International Scouting Collectors Association does not actually sell any collectibles, but they do have recognized dealers.[7] --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 22:15, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps the Radioactive Boy Scout would sell you his? --Sean 14:48, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Harmonica

Have a mouth organ I would like to know if you might have some Idea of it's value.Round about price to ask for it. If there is any value at all. It's called The BandMaster Deluxe Chromatic. 3-full octaves, all sharps and flats. Made in G.DR. Seydel's System Germany/East. 1-12 Slide Bar. No date. Does have original outside box and original plastic case. All in good condition. You can tell it's probably very old. D.Lax —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.60.213.231 (talk) 21:13, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

There is one on an auction site here [8] with an estimate of $40 - $60. DuncanHill (talk) 21:14, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Casualties Of War

In seeing numerous photographs of casualties in battles, I have noticed a lot of them have either no trousers on, or have their trousers pulled down to just above their knees. What's happening here?--ChokinBako (talk) 22:39, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Example? --98.217.8.46 (talk) 00:45, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

No specific examples to give you, but if you haven't noticed it before you won't know the answer, so don't worry.--ChokinBako (talk) 01:33, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

You claim to have noticed this in numerous photographs, yet you can't provide any examples? — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 03:27, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Is there some common aspect to the photos you're talking about -- era, location, nature of the conflict? I can't recall anything like this in photos in histories I've read of the U.S. Civil War, or the two World Wars. --- OtherDave (talk) 02:38, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

I think this is in reference to Eric Cartman's theory on South Park that people "crap their pants" right before they die. Halli B (talk) 03:22, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps they have suffered injury to the lower body or upper legs ? Or is this too obvious ?86.202.158.135 (talk) 09:38, 6 September 2008 (UTC)DT

I can't say I have noticed this phenomenon, but it would explain the importance of putting on clean underwear before going into battle. DuncanHill (talk) 09:42, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

To be honest, I first noticed it in pictures of the Iraq War, with casualties on both sides being in such a position. The reason it caught my attention last night, was because I was watching a documentary about the Battle of Saipan in WW2, and I saw the same thing there. These were not soldiers caught in the camp, or in the field hospitals, or in bed, or anything. These were soldiers caught running into (or away from) battle.--ChokinBako (talk) 10:50, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

If it is prisoners rather than casualties, then pulling their trousers down would be a cheap and easily improvised way of stopping them running away again. DuncanHill (talk) 11:04, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

September 6

The selling of "White Trash" culture.

Does anyone have any idea why in the last decade the marketing of "white trash" culture (kid rock, nascar, trailer park comedies, reno 911, etc) has markedly increased? Now even politicians a la Hillary Clinton are speaking with fake southern accents. Why? Halli B (talk) 02:46, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

This goes back farther than ten years. See also: The Jerry Springer Show, Morton Downey, Jr., The Beverly Hillbillies, Shakespeare's plays, etc. — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 03:24, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Rock musicians have used a fake southern accent since Elvis came on the scene. Edison (talk) 04:02, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Hillary Clinton was First Lady of Arkansas for several years, and is married to a native-born Arkansan. It's entirely possible that his accent has rubbed off on her. Listen to Madonna speak. Corvus cornix_talk 04:08, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

What's a trailer park comedy, btw? Corvus cornix_talk 04:09, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Trailer Park Boys — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 08:15, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Could the perceived increase stem from oversimplification? I have no interest in watching cars turn left, no matter how colorful the logos, but equating NASCAR with "white trash" is as silly as equating Shakespeare with "guys wearing starched ruffs." It's possible to have a Southern accent, or to live in the South, without being white trash (or even white). --- OtherDave (talk) 14:13, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Basically all the items you list are just things on television, which is the lowest common denominator of the much broader "culture". --Sean 14:52, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

How did shakespeare get on the same list as jerry? ::shudder:: --Shaggorama (talk) 08:52, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

What is the name for this lame defense?

A common legal defense posits that the accused is far too clever and experienced to have blatantly committed such a foolish crime and not covered his tracks. E.g., "I've worked at this company for thirty years and know their systems inside and out. Don't you think that, if I wanted to I really wanted to embezzle funds, I would do it like that? This is clearly the work of an amateur!"

Does this type of defense have a name? Is it considered a fallacy?

There is a related (but generally less effective) defense used in some domestic abuse cases. I see it sometimes on Judge Judy. It goes: "Hit my wife? Hit my wife? Your honor, if I were to hit my wife, she wouldn't be in any condition to stand here and tell you about it!" I doubt that one has a name.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 04:55, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't know a name for it, but it's clearly a fallacy - if doing a bad job of the crime meant you wouldn't be found guilty then doing a bad job would actually be a very good job. --Tango (talk) 05:02, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

And just because a person or company may have shown considerable skill or cleverness in the past does not necessarily mean they did so in the case in question. The second example in particular seems to be more of an ego trip than anything else. --S.dedalus (talk) 06:21, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Given the unlikelihood of success, a good name might be hubris. --- OtherDave (talk) 14:15, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Just because this argument works in movies and detective novels I wouldn't assume it has ever been used in real life. Do you have an example from real life? DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:18, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I won't name names, but someone I respect used it onwiki when he was accused of sockpuppetry.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 23:25, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Question

Where can I find Australian sales numbers for video games? (Key word: numbers.) 124.181.254.143 (talk) 05:17, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

A company by the name of "GfK Australia" does most of the tracking. They sell their data - so you can't get it for free. The companies that buy it generally only use it for either (a) financial information on game companies or (b) to produce "top 10 charts" for the general public. It's clear that they must count the total number sold - but it never seems to be published anywhere - which could be a confidentiality thing - or that they want to make money from it. The trade organisation "Interactive Entertainment Association of Australia" (IEAA) also seem to keep track of this data - but they don't seem to publish it either. SteveBaker (talk) 19:17, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Article: Emergency Preparedness

Is there a article on this ? There are those hurricanes, earthquakes, fire, etc. 65.163.117.163 (talk) 08:36, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

There are what are being called "Emergency Preparedness kits" being sold. Any articles on these things as well? 08:44, 6 September 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.163.117.163 (talk)

Got old, forgot sig. LOL!65.163.117.163 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 08:45, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

If you had done a search for Emergency preparedness, you may have noticed that the term redirects to Emergency management. — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 10:26, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

There is also Hurricane preparedness, Earthquake preparedness, and possibly others, as well as Survival kit/Disaster supplies kits. — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 10:29, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Reason I asked is that I have one of these. I'm in a hurricane prone area, also get tornadoes, servere thunderstorms, ice storms, heat waves, wind storms. 65.163.117.163 (talk) 17:32, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

I hope those articles help, then. I recommend not giving your full faith to what the articles say, but to follow the references and external links mentioned in the articles. The references and external links may be more reliable and trustworthy than the Wikipedia articles. — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 22:01, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

FEMA publishes a free preparedness guide online here. --Shaggorama (talk) 08:50, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

seemingly extra sensual perception

I was just walking around with my eyes closed and I got a strong feeling that there was something in front of me Iwalked on and soon found out that there was,what is that called and how does it work81.155.35.95 (talk) 10:22, 6 September 2008 (UTC)Andrew kenyon-Roberts

One explanation: You (subconsciously) noticed that thing earlier when you had your eyes open, and your brain cued you in at about the spot it recalled the object. — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 10:25, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, it might be extra sensual if you reckon you've got an additional sense (eg. a 6th sense). The usual term is extra-sensory, meaning beyond the senses (ie. nothing to do with the senses at all). But whether this is either of those, or simply coincidence, or something else again, I doubt we'd have any way of knowing. -- JackofOz (talk) 10:29, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

One simple way to find out: get a friend and a large sheet of cardboard. Close your eyes, and your friend randomly holds the cardboard in your path or out of your path. You start walking, and see how many times you crash into the cardboard. The example you've given is probably confirmation bias since you probably would not notice it if it wasn't there. --antilived^{T | C | G} 11:53, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

About how it works: I suppose you could also sense obstacles through minor variations in air pressure or air currents, and smell, in addition to the above explanations. Especially cardboard you should be able to smell if you are close enough. You might not be aware of this even if it is how you discovered the obstacles. Jørgen (talk) 12:00, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

There was a report bouncing around the web a few weeks ago [9] that said that humans have a primitive version of sonar (like bats and dolphins) (oh - and now we have Human echolocation) - and a previous report showed that we are actually able to follow trails by smell (but not as well as dogs) and that we actually have a "stereo" sense of smell [10] - noticing the direction of a smell by the relative strength through our two nostrils. However, I'm with User:Twas Now - you simply have enough memory of the room layout and enough other cues to enable you to do this. For example - I can close my eyes and still see enough light through my eyelids to tell where the windows are. Sound reverberations let me know how close to the walls I am. No magic. No "extra" senses. SteveBaker (talk) 13:50, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

There are blind people, such as Ben Underwood [11], shown in this YouTube [12] , who can echolocate amazingly well. He can rollerblade, and he can detect the presence and texture of surfaces. He lost both eyes as a child and has non-seeing prosthetic replacements. Even without making clicks with the mouth, ambient noise should change as you get close to, say, a wall. You hear a noise from behind you pass by, then you hear an echo from in front bouncing off the wall 6 feet in front a fraction of a second later. You take a step forward and you are 3 feet from the wall. Another sound not passes you and echoes from the wall, with the return delayed half as much as before. You deduce that you are getting closer to the wall. Edison (talk) 04:28, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Also your eyelids are not completely opaque, you can still detect changes in brightness ecen with your eyes closed. You could possibly tell if you walked into a shadow or close to a wall by the change in intensity. 192.45.72.26 (talk) 19:00, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

IBM location designed with own furniture, with paper in mind

A year or two ago, I read an article (written at the time, I believe) about the design of an IBM office building. It was supposed to be the first specially designed to improve the productivity of software engineers. I'm trying to track that article down, but I don't have any hard facts such as the name of the location or the publication, so I've had no luck with Google. Here are some things I do remember:

• The date was probably early 70s or thereabouts. I'm pretty sure the location was in the US.
• The building was designed alongside its own range of office furniture, intended to provide efficient use and storage of both the large amounts of paper printouts and punchcards still in use, as well as the video terminals coming in. In particular I remember a mention of especially deep desks to allow a stack of fan-fold paper to be laid out and opened to any point.
• The site consisted of several buildings, with projecting parts so that all developers had windows (perhaps they were X or H shaped overall?)
• Mention was made of an efficient system of paper distribution (they were still printing lots of code, and getting through stupendous amounts of it) from a daily delivery bay in the centre through a series of corridors and lifts. I remember that the corridors had specially smooth floors for the paper trolleys, and that there was an equally-developed return system for the used paper to a shredder and recycling pickup point.
• Developers were organised in cells of several offices surrounding a central point with a secretary and office machinery (and the end-point of the abovementioned paper distribution).

Ideally, someone would be able to locate the article (I would have previously read it online) but just an idea of the site name would be helpful in finding it. Thanks. 81.187.153.189 (talk) 11:33, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

I know it's not in the US, but Google seems to be abuzz with references to IBM's Pilot HQ in Cosham, UK as being architecturally inovative and constructed in 1970/71. Fribbler (talk) 11:48, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, but I don't think that's the one. 81.187.153.189 (talk) 16:30, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

In fact, mentioning the furniture in the search, and omitting the word "design", I've found what I was looking for: http://www.research.ibm.com/journal/sj/171/ibmsj1701C.pdf . Thanks anyway. 81.187.153.189 (talk) 16:54, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Are you meant to eat the pinkish coloured part of a dragonfruit?

Obviously you're meant to eat the inside bit, but didn't know whether the outside was typically edible. Thanks. The article makes this unclear.--Flesh of dragonfruit (talk) 14:53, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

The article says that the skin is not eaten, but never having met a dragon fruit I don't know if that is enough to answer your question. DuncanHill (talk) 21:50, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Yep, don't eat the skin, but the rest is edible. I didn't particularly like it much, but it was edible nonetheless. Steewi (talk) 05:15, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Predicted grades

Where do A-level predicted grades, which universities use to decide whether to accept an applicant, come from? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.120.246.239 (talk) 15:24, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

If you mean predicted grades on a UCAS application then they are provided by the applicant's adviser, who is normally a member of staff at their school or college - see UCAS adviser's FAQ here. I think it would be unusual for a university to decide whether or not to accept an applicant based on predicted rather than actual grades - by the time they are making that decision, the actual A2 grades should be available. A university will take predicted A2 grades (as well as actual AS grades) into account when deciding whether to make an offer to an applicant - but in most cases offers are conditional on achieving certain results at A2. Gandalf61 (talk) 16:16, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

library reference work

I need an estimation of the number of books and the number of articles that focus on library reference desks.

Thanks, 99.149.26.59 (talk) 17:14, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

That's a tough question - but let's at least take a shot at it. An Amazon.com search for library "reference desk" turned up a couple of dozen books that looked somewhat relevant - maybe a dozen that were directly relevant. But I'd expect this to be a branch of "Library information science" - of which there are many hundreds of books written. Quite how many of those say much of interest about the reference desk - I have no clue. Google turned up at least a half dozen professional journals about "library and information science" - some of those have been in publication for 100 years - so I would hazard a guess that there were at least a couple of dozen English language books and a few hundred to maybe a thousand articles about reference desks. But I could easily be off by an order of magnitude either way - and that's without considering foreign language books and articles on the topic. SteveBaker (talk) 17:32, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! that's very helpful. 99.149.26.59 (talk) 14:16, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Feet Color

I was wondering why different people have different color feet soles, and why different parts of feet have different colors. I have seen pictures where the ball of the foot is almost orange, as well as right before the toes on the sole. What determines these colors?

John John9101 (talk) 17:21, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Calluses are the culprit. They develop in parts of the foot that experience repetitive pressure. The thickened skin has an orangey hue. Fribbler (talk) 18:16, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

...possibly due to Subsurface scattering through the thickened skin layer. SteveBaker (talk) 18:53, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Footwear storage with the Fat Man Who Never Came Back

My sister moved in with me last month, and now there are shoes lying over the place (mostly hers, but some of mine too).

Is there a stylish, tasteful way to organize and store a large number of shoes? I've been to the homes of people who have shoe-storing racks hanging from their doors, but I find these very ugly.

If you offer a suggestion, please also include a link to pictures of what you're talking about.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 18:05, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

One can get a thing which looks like a chest of drawers, but the "drawers" are concealed racks for the shoes. I don't have a picture to hand, but if I find one I will link it. DuncanHill (talk) 18:08, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Some of the things here [13] may be suited to your tastes. DuncanHill (talk) 18:11, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, that gave me some ideas. I'm already finding some modern-looking stuff like this. After all, the Fat Man is, as Mick Jagger once sang, "a man of wealth and taste" (well, perhaps not wealth--if that were the case, I probably wouldn't be sharing an apartment with my sister).--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 18:16, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Those shoe racks are the answer - but don't put them on (for example) your bedroom door - put them on the inside of your wardrobe or closet door(s). They still occupy an otherwise unused chunk of household space - but you only see them when you open the door to look for clothing and shoes. In my house, we have a large, tasteful octagonal wooden box - about 2 feet tall and 18" around with a heavy, hinged lid - (of an Asian/Indian design) - that sits by the front door where one or two pairs of "outdoor" shoes are kept per person when they are indoors - and where their house-slippers reside when they are outdoors. This has the benefit of avoiding outside dirt and mud getting tracked through the house. Those of us who need VASTLY LARGER numbers of shoes than any sane person could possibly require had better keep the damned things in the many, MANY, shoe closets set aside for that specific purpose or there will be trouble! My wife stores her shoes elsewhere. SteveBaker (talk) 18:50, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

A particularly advanced shoe storage system. DuncanHill (talk) 21:23, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

The Steel Butterfly, whilst not exactly skinny, must not be confused with the Fat Woman Who Eventually Did Come Back... --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 21:56, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

lol. I have a Malacañang Palace sitting by my front door and I swear by it. BTW, I love the title of this section. Not only does it actually refer to the topic of the question but it advertises who we'll be taking this adventure with. It's like a tv series but better. - Lambajan 03:05, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

(Hmmm - I thought the title rather gave away the ending.) SteveBaker (talk) 19:23, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Maybe it would be better suited as the title of the world's dullest call-in radio show.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 19:29, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

So what happened to the inquisitive Muslim academic movement?

As I try to find out what happened to the well-recorded history of the Muslim/Islamic movement that made astonishing discoveries and developments in architecture, mathematics, medicine, art, philosophy, politics, diplomacy, social order and obedience to the Koranic principle of tolerance, forgiveness, and understanding and acceptance of other religions and cultures, I am bound to question where these values, talents and leading-edge socio-politico-religioso qualities have gone. Is anyone here able to answer my question? And secondly, are we 21st century non-Muslim people of the same ONE GOD, destined for historical elimination in the name of Muhammed (pbuh), a 6th century disillusioned nomad? 92.18.169.254 (talk) 18:44, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

1. I don't know
2. In the sense that, as individuals, we will die: yes. In the sense that all non-Muslim believers in the Abrahamic god will eventually be killed or convert: no. — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 21:52, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia has some stuff on 1 at Islamic Golden Age#Causes of decline and Science in medieval Islam#Decline. Algebraist 21:58, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

So I suppose it can be deduced that current Islamic Terrorism can be equated to "babies throwing their toys out of the pram" because they can't always have it their own way????? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.18.169.254 (talk) 23:39, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Liberal movements in Islam might help you to track it down. There are also some authors such as Ziauddin Sardar who argue that the inquisitive tradition is still alive and kicking. Itsmejudith (talk) 14:54, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

location of pic

Mehrangarh Fort in Johdpur

Any idea where this is? http://pixdaus.com/pics/m1gcnAlUqklXxSVLNz.jpg I believe it's in Thailand, but I was hoping to narrow it down more. Thank you. --Rajah (talk) 19:29, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

The cliff-top position reminds me of the Dalai Lama's Potala Palace, since I was in Lhasa a few years ago - although, it clearly isn't the palace.89.240.241.186 (talk) 20:44, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

I think it is in India, not because I recognize it, but because the picture gives you a clue. Looking very closely at the lower left hand corner is a URL: http://www.kepguru.hu, and here is a similar picture on that site under "India": http://www.kepguru.hu/index.php?a=browse&t=orszagok/india&pid=5307&n=27 Below is a thumbnail for image #31, which is your picture. With luck maybe someone else can narrow it down further. Crypticfirefly (talk) 05:00, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Note: http://www.kepguru.hu is in the lower right (I almost saved this as "lower left", too!) — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 05:42, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

WOW!

I think it's Mehrangarh Fort in Johdpur, India. Photo number 32 on that kepguru site (a view over the battlements to a town with lots of bright blue buildings) matches fairly closely with a photo (above, right) from WikiCommons that identifies it as that fort. The official site for the fort [14] has an almost identical shot to #32 from the KepGuru site - so if the two pictures on that site came from the same place (which seems REALLY likely) then we have a match. That's an utterly amazing place! It makes you wonder what kind of an army they felt they needed to defend themselves against! SteveBaker (talk) 16:16, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

(That original photo somehow reminds me of Naboo in StarWars ep I - it needs more shiney chrome spaceships though.) SteveBaker (talk) 16:23, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

(More evidence) This photo [15] is of the tower in the background of your original photo. I think that's proof. SteveBaker (talk) 16:50, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Awesome. Thanks, everyone! --Rajah (talk) 15:03, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Illogical Affection for Saviour

An illogical affection for one's captor is termed Stockholm Syndrome but I can't remember what the term is for an affection of one saviour (i.e. being a bit more than just grateful). Is there such a term/syndrome, or have I been misinformed? --80.229.152.246 (talk) 21:19, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Why would it be illogical to be grateful to someone who has saved you? — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 21:48, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

The OP stated clearly that we're talking about being 'a bit more than just grateful' here. Algebraist 21:49, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't know what that means though. How much is a bit? What is considered "appropriately" grateful? — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 21:54, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

I read that as implying sexual attraction, but the OP might be working from a different codebook. Algebraist 21:59, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Not necessarily, but inclusive of that yes. --80.229.152.246 (talk) 22:00, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

That would depend entirely on the circumstances and loan amount. Unfortunately I don't know any scales of affection that could be useful here, but I would suggest 'a degree of affection visibly greater than the degree that would be expressed by the vast majority of people'. A bit of a rubbish definition I know, but it might help. --80.229.152.246 (talk) 22:00, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough. To define it more concretely, suppose we graph the "gratefulness" of a group of saved people, with the x-axis being "gratefulness" and the y-axis being the "number of people" to express x level of gratefulness; we should expect to see a normal distribution. You are interested in what we call the people at the far right of the x-axis, say the 99th percentile, or "most grateful", people. — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 00:31, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

To get back to the point, using my "normal distribution" definition above, I have no idea what such behavior is called. — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 00:32, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

I'd say it's entirely rational. Someone has just saved your life, your survival instinct is going to suggest staying as close to them as possible. You can't get much closer than being in a romantic relationship. --Tango (talk) 01:20, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

I have an example that might be like what you're talking about. Twenty-five years ago, I was swimming at a beach with friends of mine (a married couple and their 7-year-old daughter). We were all together, swimming in a safe area between the flags, within easy distance of the shore. But we were all taken out further by a rip. I'm an experienced surf swimmer, but if this hadn't happened to me, I wouldn't have believed how quickly it can happen; and you don't realise it as it's happening. When we suddenly noticed how far away from the shore we were, we started swimming back. But we made no headway; and after a while we were all getting exhausted. The daughter started to panic, and she tried to hang on to me because by that stage I was closer to her than her parents were. I did what I could, but she was becoming so panicky that she was dragging me down, and this threatened to drown both of us. We were still a long way out from the shore, and I was getting pretty desparate myself. Suddenly, seemingly out of nowhere, four life savers appeared, and they managed to get us all back to the shore safely. For the rest of the day, the father expressed his profuse thanks to me for saving his daughter. I kept saying that I didn't do anything much worth writing home about, and if it hadn't been for the life savers, all four of us would probably have drowned. But this didn't deter him, and for months later, whenever we saw each other, he thanked me all over again. I was pretty embarrassed by this. Even if I had been instrumental in saving his daughter (which in my mind I hadn't been), expressions of gratitude can become inappropriate and almost offensive to the thankee when repeated too often. I never complained, because I understood where he was coming from. After a while, he must have sensed this over-the-top expression of gratitude was no longer necessary, so he stopped doing it. It wasn't a case of him becoming more "affectionate" towards me in a romantic/sexual sense, but our friendship did become stronger, and we're still in regular contact. -- JackofOz (talk) 02:12, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

This is, incidentally, why I am totally afraid of swimming in the ocean! Thanks for reinforcing my phobia, Jack ;-) --98.217.8.46 (talk) 11:55, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

You're afraid that if you get swept away you will have Jack to cling on to? DuncanHill (talk) 12:20, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, interesting. Possibly that had a lot to do with fear? i.e. every time he saw you he was reminded that he could have lost his daughter and this set off a relief/gratitude response all over again? Just projecting how I might feel. --S.dedalus (talk) 07:26, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Completely aside, swimming against a riptide is unlikely to be successful. As our article indicates, you need to swim parallel to it so you can make your way around. Matt Deres (talk) 13:33, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

To be clear to anyone thinking of going for a swim: that should be parallel to the shoreline; perpendicular to the current. jeffjon (talk) 14:28, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Election fraud graph

Hi, I remember seeing a while ago a graph showing how an election had been rigged in favor of Vladimir Putin. If I remember correctly. X was the electoral bureaus ordered by participation rate, Y was number of votes and number of abstention. One curve showed the number of abstention being roughly constant until the participation rate reached about 75% where it declined, the other curve showed the number of votes for Putin being roughly constant until it mirrored the other curve into a climb. Meaning that ballot boxes had been stuffed with absent elector's ballots in favor of Putin. Has anyone the ref to this graph, I can't find it anymore? This graph is similar in principle but doesn't seem as clear as the one I'm looking for. What other methods are there to show fraud through graph? One example is here. I don't understand why the peaks mean fraud as such, why should it be a constant bell shaped curve? Thank you. 190.244.186.234 (talk) 22:26, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Those graphs may hint at fraud, but they're far from conclusive. It could well be that the other parties campaigned equally across all bureaus and Putin's party campaigned more in some than others, and in places where Putin didn't campaign people that would have supported him just didn't vote and in places where he did campaign, they went out and voted for him. That would result in roughly the same graphs. --Tango (talk) 00:21, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, except the whole 100% turnout bit for so many districts. That's the sort of thing you really only see in a rigged election. Even in elections of wildly popular candidates, you don't get 100% turnout anywhere, much less along the exact percentages that chart shows. Of course who knows where the data is really from. But if it's legit then that's compelling that something is up. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 01:16, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

You would have to be pretty stupid to rig an election that obviously. I expect there's a flaw in how they compiled their data (some of it was from a source that rounded to the nearest 10%, say). --Tango (talk) 01:21, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

September 7

A somewhat morbid question about space travel

Let's say a manned mission to the Moon or Mars goes horribly wrong and one of the guys snaps and kills the other guys. Somehow NASA gets wind of it (he delirously brags, the circumstances suggest it, etc.) Would they send a second mission to get the guy to face justice, or just maroon him there, or what? Someone's probably made a movie about this (or will now) and I would be curious to know how this would unfold. How long could 2 or more guys stay cramped in a tiny spaceship without killing each other?THE WORLD'S MOST CURIOUS MAN (talk) 02:32, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Astronauts for long term missions go through all sorts of psychological evaluations before they leave, and while they're on the mission, to try and avoid anything like that, so the chances of it happening are very slim. There are plans in place to deal with someone going crazy in space (sedate them and tie them up with duct tape is the gist of it, I believe). In the event that someone went crazy and successfully killed the rest of the crew, I guess the response would depend on the details. I haven't heard of anyone having planned for that eventuality. The only missions to the Moon or Mars so far have been the Apollo missions and a rescue/capture mission for the crazed killer would have been impossible for them (he'd have run out of air long before they could get to him). If someone went crazy on the ISS and killed the rest of the crew, some kind of rescue/capture would be possible, and they would probably want to get the station back, so it's quite likely they would do something. I've no idea what, though. As for future deep space missions, I guess it would depend on whether another mission was already planned and far enough along the pipeline that they could bring it forward and get to the killer in time. --Tango (talk) 02:49, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like the backplot for Stranger in a Strange Land. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 15:40, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh, it's been done lots of times, I think. Another example is one of the better early stories of Larry Niven (though not as good as some of his more mature work), How the Heroes Die. --Trovatore (talk) 21:48, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Here's something Ive never heard a plan for.- What if one of the guys just dies of natural causes? Are they gonna bring his dacaying, smelly body back on the 9 month trip back from Mars? Or just leave him there where "he died doing something that he loved"? And what if he drops dead on blastoff day? That's nine months there and back! Ewww.--THE WORLD'S MOST CURIOUS MAN (talk) 17:45, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Just stick him (or her) in his spacesuit and zip it up. Clarityfiend (talk) 20:02, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

I think the suit might burst from the pressure build up durig decomposition, which could be far more then the pressure differential the suit was designed for. Edison (talk) 20:26, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

If it's such a long trip, I would expect them to go for a space burial, just as people were buried at sea on long sea voyages. --Tango (talk) 20:49, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

As can be expected, NASA has certainly considered what happens if an astronaut falls ill is dies during spaceflight. This interesting, if a little sparse article by Mike Schneider, based on a NASA memo, discusses the issue. It also deals with the flip side of the coin that often goes hand in hand with death: NASA's stance on sex in space, or rather the lack of such a stance. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 08:06, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

NASA's stance on sex in space is that it doesn't happen, and any rumors to the contrary you may have heard are false. --Carnildo (talk) 00:31, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

And that may even be true right now... though frankly: none of the people who have spent several months in orbit together have ever bumped uglies, if only to satisfy their curiosity? I'm kinda skeptical. But, hey, maybe it hasn't happened. Still, once we start talking about going to Mars, what with that trip bound to take years, chances are that someone's going to get bored and horny and curious enough to give it a shot. I kinda doubt NASA is going to just ignore that. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 08:42, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

When I was working on a simulator for part of the ISS, I spent some time working with one of the astronauts who had lived for months on Miir. He was pretty clear that several people had "satisfied their curiosity" (an interesting euphemism!) and was able to go into a suspiciously large amount of detail on some of the "orbital manouvers" required...but I'd better not name-names here since it is indeed NASA's official line that it doesn't happen. SteveBaker (talk) 17:21, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

in zero gravity? WOW! Bradley10 (talk) 11:20, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

famous movie lines

i have read some famous movie lines before in wikipedia. i just type the title of the movie then the dialogues and lines of the characters showed up. i was trying to search it again i cannot see it anymore. how would i search it again/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.217.86.19 (talk) 03:45, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

You probably want Wikiquote, one of Wikipedia's sister projects. --Tango (talk) 04:21, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

IMDB has a pretty good quote search; it just correctly found "I'd buy that for a dollar" and "I'll be taking these Huggies and whatever cash ya got". --Sean 15:03, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Why isn't there a robotic McDonald's yet?

A machine which produces hamburgers can't be too expensive to manufacture so why isn't there a McDonald's that is a lot more automated than it is now? Japan has McDonald's and is always perilously low on labor so why haven't they implemented the robotic McDonald's yet?

Lotsofissues 05:53, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

It would be fairly expensive to manufacture and maintain a robot like that, whereas unskilled labour is pretty cheap. The minimum wage in Japan is less than in the US, and I would expect they can find minimal wage staff even with a labour shortage (students, for example). --Tango (talk) 06:01, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

See automat. — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 06:22, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Expensive? I don't understand machines at all so please explain. What innovations need to be found to make it cheap? Lotsofissues 07:37, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

If you have a machine, you have to make the machine, keep it working, protect against theft and vandalism, pay for an engineer to look over it periodically, and then still have to pay someone to stock it up, etc. etc. etc. If you have a person you pay them minimum wage, and if something goes wrong, they can probably fix it (unlike the machine). If you're talking about machines that do all of the cooking, you're introducing all sorts of potential problems—even something as simple as a machine that assembles cheeseburgers and makes french fries, I don't know, I'd be suspicious that it would ever be as cost-effective and fast as a cheap human, given the possibility of things going totally wrong in a situation like that (overcooking, undercooking, spillage, jamming, etc.). If a human messes up, it can perceive that and fix it pretty quickly. Machines, not so much. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 11:51, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

I am convinced that they ALL are androids (on either side of the counter). The similarity with humans is as unconvincing as is the similarity of the produce with edible food. I always thought the little burgers look - and taste - like silicone breast implants on the sterile conveyor belt of an industrious "plastic" surgeon. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 13:20, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

After reading about what happened to Sonmi~451 I feel sorry for them. -- Q Chris (talk) 09:50, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

But hey, as I think about it, you could probably come up with something. The question is whether the R&D that would go into it, plus the installation and maintenance, plus the potentiality of customers being alienated by the whole thing, plus the possibility of getting into trouble with labor groups (who usually opposed replacing people with machines), would in the end be more profitable than paying humans to do it. I suspect not—or, at least, I suspect the uncertainties are great enough and the potential profits slim enough for it not to be worth the chance. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 13:35, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, the Fast Food Workers Union would be outraged. — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 13:37, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

I disagree with the previous respondants - don't think it's impossible to design such a machine. If you ever watched a donut making machine at work (YouTube), they are pretty complicated and have most of the same problems that a burger maker would have - yet they work perfectly and produce better, more consistent donuts than human operators can. I've seen one that could take half of them and frost them in sugar, and the other half and put chocolate on the top half and add sprinkles. That's very do-able. You can even buy a domestic version of the basic machine for $130 here.

But it's rare in any business for a machine to replace an entire manual process in one fell swoop. What usually happens is that the more repetitive steps are automated - then, when those machines are perfected, in general use and accepted, another machine will come along that connects several of those already-automated steps together into a single step - and so on until the entire process is automated.

McDonalds are something of a special case though - they are a franchise operation. McDonalds (the company) don't own or operate the restaurants that have their names on them. They sell ingredients, napkins, happy-meal toys, advertising, etc to franchisee's who actually own and run the stores. So the question is whether their franchisee's are prepared to pony up the research & development money for such a speculative thing. McDonalds couldn't consider doing it unless/until a large percentage of their franchisee's would sign up to buy one. But I don't think there are fundamental reasons not to do it from a technological perspective. Much more complex assembly operations have been automated in the past.

SteveBaker (talk) 15:57, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

The book Fast Food Nation tells about one fast food company which designed a purely automatic burger maker, but it was more expensive to operate, due to the high initial expense and the high level of skilled maintenance required, than to take some teenager or unemployed low-skilled person off the street, give them a few minutes training, and put them to work for low wages at a repetitive simple task. Edison (talk) 20:24, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't think a robotic McDonald's would be alienating. We have all heard stories about the lack of cleanliness at McDonald's. If robots replaced people, there will be new points to market. Lotsofissues 20:51, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

That wouldn't fix the problems I have with them. For example - a good friend of mine spent a summer vacation working at one of their distribution centers. When the bacterial count in meat that's been sitting around too long exceeds the legal limits - they don't toss it out - they mix it 50/50 with fresh meat and thereby halve the count to bring it back within legal limits. A burger-making robot wouldn't fix such endemic problems. A general rule when computerizing a process (any process) is that computerizing a mess just results in a faster mess. First you have to get all of your processes sorted out - then you can computerize. Adding a robot to a dirty kitchen just results in faster dirt. SteveBaker (talk) 03:25, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Just because a robot is good at menial tasks and fast food work is often menial doesn't mean that robots would be appropriate substitutes for low-wage employees. Robots (and computers in general) excel at doing the same thing over and over again as quickly as you need them to. Adding numbers and driving rivets are good examples of this. They're terrible at being multi-functional. Let's say you have a stripped down McD's that only sold burgers, fries, and soft drinks. How many robots would that take? Let's be extremely generous and say that it's only three (one for each). There would need to be dozens of subsystems, but let's keep it simple. A scoop picks up some raw french fries, drops them in the oil, removes them at the appropriate time, salts them, and scoops them into containers as needed. Fine. What does it do between the times that it's busy? Well, nothing much really. It doesn't do you any good to fry up a hundred times as many fries as a human can, if you're not going to sell that much. So, you get a person to do that bit. Between the times they're making fries, that person can do other jobs, each of which makes it less economical to make robots do those jobs. It's a vicious cycle. In the auto industry it often runs the other way, where workers can't keep up to the automated processes, making their jobs more and more likely to be replaced. At a place like McD's, it runs against the automation for the same reason - you can't ignore the time factor. Factor in that many of the steps are already running at peak efficiency (thanks in part to computerized equipment) and you really don't have much of a return on investment. I'm sure there are a few McD's where you could really make use of robot-restaurant, but you're not going to invest huge $$$ in R&D to improve the service time at 1% of your busiest stores, when you can just build more stores. Matt Deres (talk)

Thanks Matt. That was a really good explanation. But what about the one guy who is constantly assembly burgers? Lotsofissues 19:02, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I suppose you'd have to look at a couple of things. What are you trying to improve? McD is going to be looking at things in (probably) this kind of order: max throughput per minute, average throughput per minute, and the cost factors for each of those. McD's beats the other burger joints in their ability to push through huge numbers of orders per minute when things get crazy; it's very important to their business model and they do it very, very well. Could a robot make things better? You're probably not going to cook the burger any faster, that's all timed down to the second as it is. You might get more throughput by expanding the cook top into the space the cook used to stand, but then you come to another pinch: how many steps does it take and how many robots will you need? There are quite a few steps when you break it all down from unpacking, to cooking, to adding each condiment, to wrapping, etc. You'd need a separate robot for pretty much every one of those steps (I only listed a couple off the top of my head), whereas when things are not hectic, the entire process can be done by one or two people, who have the ability to switch between jobs as needed. You've pretty much eaten up the space you'd hoped to gain and given yourself a huge overhead in setup and maintenance to boot. Matt Deres (talk) 19:57, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I asked for a Big Mac with no Big Mac sauce once and the guy looked at me like I had four heads. I don't think I would ever get what I want from a robot. Adam Bishop (talk) 01:20, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

It does not help answer the question much, really, but a fully-automated McDonald's-like restaurant is part of the plot of Harry Harrison's novel A Stainless Steel Rat is Born. It works well there (the characters explain how and why it works), but it also uses equipment that delivers the order by the time the customer finishes giving it, conveniently getting around the limitations of prep time and supply vs. demand. Morrand (talk) 03:15, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Modern day Macbeth

I need modern songs that would go with the themes of Macbeth. Thanks in advance. --124.254.77.148 (talk) 07:12, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

This question has already been answered above. See Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous#Macbeth songs.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:51, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

FIRST AID

What is first aid? Why do we need first aid? What is the role of first aid? Conclusion on first aid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.92.241.80 (talk) 14:25, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Do your own homework. — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 14:33, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

This is your conclusion on first aid. - Lambajan 15:18, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Pocket guide on first aid

Can anybody help me on this topic.............Prepare a pocket guide on first aid for your school. The first aid should contain aid that needs to be given to fractures,poisoning,cuts and burns, heat and cold wave and other threats that are prevalent in that area . The content ahared in the guide should be supported with adequate pictures so as to give a clear and elaborate understanding about the topic. Choose awareness campaign strategy for either senior citizens or illiterate people and prepare a brief note up................Thanks in advance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.92.241.80 (talk) 14:40, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

See my comment above. (Summary: Do your own homework.) — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 14:42, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Especially do your own projects and long term assignments. - Lambajan 15:21, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

But you can start off with our article on first aid, and most libraries have many books of first aid. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 15:28, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

I think a portable propane blowtorch for cauterizing wounds. Some rope for binding. A bottle of hydrocloric acid and a clean rag to use as a gag. Don't forget the foreceps either. Halli B (talk) 21:44, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

A baseball bat for anesthetic, ketchup as blood transfusion substitute, a vise clamp for setting bones, fishhooks to hold an open wound closed. . . --S.dedalus (talk) 23:58, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Good answers, people! — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 01:40, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

How about a sharp knife to slit someone's throat in a hurry if they need bloodletting? --Tango (talk) 03:31, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Sissies. Don't treat 'em; let natural selection do the work for you. --- OtherDave (talk) 11:25, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Don't forget: no first aid kit is complete without sterile fallopian tubes and a priapism splint. --Shaggorama (talk) 08:46, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Marc Madiot's nickname

This source says Marc Madiot is called "Le Tuareg". Does anyone know if this is true and what Tuareg means (except of the North-African nomads) and why he is called this way.

Rubietje88 (talk) 14:53, 7 September 2008 (UTC) (nl)

I cannot say whether or not it's true he has this nickname but it almost certainly refers to the ethnic group in one way or another. Either he is of some North African descent or he fits somehow into a French stereotype of the Tuareg. I'm unfamiliar with what the French stereotypes of the Tuareg are, but 'nomadic' seems a fair guess, particularly for a cyclist. - Lambajan 15:29, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Oké, thank you very much. I will ask this at the French wikipedia too, maybe they do know more.

Greetings from the Netherlands, Rubietje88 (talk) 12:21, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

post-secondary education

Alright, I would just like to ask you all a small question about this.

If one is a junior in high school, having been so for only a few weeks... And they have been a mostly A student (a few B's) through this time... And they have taken all enriched classes, and are now in the IB (International Baccalaureate) enriched program... And they were in two clubs freshman and sophomore year... And are now in three or four clubs... And have never had a job... And will clock over 150 hours of community service for IB by graduation... But have only done 10 so far... And have never taken an in-college class during high school... And took the PSAT (Practice SAT) and achieved a very high score... And have not applied for any scholarships or written any college applications so far...

What should they do to ensure that they can get into a GOOD college (including possibly out of state) without having to pay loads of money or applying for loads of student loans?

{This is assuming they will take both the SAT and the ACT and achieve very high scores} —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.23.70.25 (talk) 15:58, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, first, it's important to know what you intend to do your degree in (it may still be a little premature to say). But if you continue to do well, the question will be what scholarships you can obtain. The most expensive places in the USA have the possibility to get close to 100% scholarships for those who are both needy and well-qualified. So take as many 'AP' classes as you can - get college credits from your school (if you can) - and get as much advice about scholarships as you can - and perhaps you can go anywhere you want. My son (also pretty smart) graduated from high school a year early with quite a few college credits already under his belt. Because he graduated early, the college demanded that he do their "bridge program" over the summer vacation - for which they gave him a 100% scholarship, free accomodation and $80 per week stipend. That earned him more college credits. Now he's about to "test out" of some of the easier courses he's taking - which means he's likely to get his B.Sc in two years. Finishing more quickly makes things a LOT cheaper. So his plan is to do that at his (in-state) college - then apply to somewhere like MIT to do a masters degree in the hope that his rapid progress will encourage them to give him a large scholarship. But your circumstances will no doubt be different. Anyway - getting BIG scholarships is the way to do things - then you don't have to go somewhere less prestigious than you deserve. You can pick up all sorts of WEIRD scholarships - especially if you are in any kind of minority or have any kind of special connections. It's amazing how many really specialised little endowments there are out there who'll pay one or two thousand dollars per year for someone with just the right background taking some very particular degree. Pick up enough little things like that and you'll find even the most expensive places quite accessible. Some schools have councillors who can help you to find those kinds of things...but typically, they focus on that during your final year in high-school. So my advice is to aim high - but expect low. That way you won't be disappointed - but you also won't short-change yourself....and there are always student loans. :-( SteveBaker (talk) 17:09, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

State counties maps showing location in states

Hello. I'm working on tracing my aunt's grandfather in terms of (who was Swedish and came to Texas and died there as well in the nineteenth century) places lived and worked, etc., but when I try to trace where he was living in the nineteenth century to see where in the state of Texas that county is located to see his path from where his wife lived, where they married and then where their two children were born and then where he died in 1899, well there is nothing showing me two of the counties within the state of Texas to see how far apart the counties are from one another. I'm wondering if this will be posted and how long before it may be done? I'm looking for both the counties of Gonzales, Texas and then Wharton. I see the other two counties where they had their first son and where they were married next, but not for the birth of their second son is or where he died and where there was a large Swedish community. Can you show counties in states for people like myself who need to look at maps to trace their genealogical roots in different states to see if in their census research, etc., a county is viable or not for a person who has a common name (like "Joe Smith") to see if there are a lot of Joe Smiths living in a given area or state, which may be their correct ancestor or not? Anyway, if this is possible in Wikipedia, this would be very helpful for your resources. Thank you! Regor4 (talk) 16:53, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Our articles Gonzales County, Texas and Wharton County, Texas both have maps shewing their location within the state of Texas. Does this help? DuncanHill (talk) 17:03, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Google maps can do that. Choose the "Get Directions" button - type "Gonzales County Texas" into one box and "Wharton County Texas" into the other and it'll bring up a handy zoomable map. If you select "By Walking" instead of "By Car", it'll even tell you that to get from the middle of one county to the middle of the other would take 32 hours (assuming you didn't stop to eat or sleep!)...98 miles...perhaps a four day walk, maybe three days in a horse and buggy, two days if you had a fast horse and were in a hurry! Quite do-able by the standards of the day. I wouldn't want to do it in the summer (100 degree heat - and high humidity that close to the coast) - but during the winter, it would be quite a pleasant hike. SteveBaker (talk) 17:18, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

If I understand right, you are interested in historical county maps? Genealogical work can be frustrated by the way counties have changed over time. There are some nice maps that show the evolution of counties. This site has links to states, try the Texas page, and then click the first link "County Formation Maps" and you should get this page, which shows the evolution of Texas counties over time. You can play it as an animation or just select a year from below the map. I'm not quite sure this is what you are looking for, but I've found it useful. If nothing else, when doing genealogical research one should remember that just because some old record says Such-and-such County, it does not necessarily correspond to the location and size of that county today. Pfly (talk) 05:40, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Transits and occultations in astrology

In astrology, are transits and occultations considered more significant than ordinary conjunctions? NeonMerlin 17:20, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

So you're the guy with the fancy robe who's job it is to predict the future based on a bunch of tiny white dots moving around on a big hemisphere full of little white dots. What set of "rules" are you going to draw up about what this all means? Well - the general public have already put together names for collections of the brighter stars - so this group of six stars is a fish - that bunch over there is a hunter - that lot is a bear (well, yes, I know it's just three stars in a triangle...but it's a BEAR - OK?). Well, I guess when this planet (which means "wandering star") moves out of the fish and into the hunter (that's a "transit") - maybe it's time to pull the old boat out of the water and head inland with your bow and arrow - but do it quick because it'll soon be heading into the bear and you don't want to be hanging out in the woods when THAT happens. I mean - that's the kind of thing you're going to have to come up with if you want to convince the other guys to feed and clothe you when you basically sit around all day doing nothing while they do all the actual work. But pretty soon you run out of those simple things - so you start making up more complicated rules: If the king was born when mars was overhead then maybe where mars is now matters more to him than where venus is...you start getting more complicated so that other people can't do what you do. But sooner or later - you're getting old and the other guys are getting nervous about when you die - you have to take on an apprentice and teach him the rules. He's alway whining on about "WHY?" - so you slap him around the head and say "Because the ancestors told me so in a vision"...it's a lot easier than retracing the complicated (and utterly arbitary) logic you've built up over a lifetime.

Continue this nonsense for a hundred generations and you get an utterly meaningless set of gibberish rules that don't even relate to where the planets ACTUALLY are (that's too complicated to figure out) - but only to where their funky arithmetic places them. You get sets of formalized predictions that have survived by a process of memetic evolution. Predictions that are too specific ("You will slip on a banana peel tomorrow at 3:14pm") tended to get the court Astrologer hung upside-down in chains in the dungeon. Predictions that are vague enough ("Tomorrow is a good day for making big decisions") survived the test of time. Hence we have a set of entirely arbitary rules - based around fictional locations for the planets - that produce results that are vague enough to survive the test of time - but just specific enough so that they seem like predictions.

SteveBaker (talk) 17:57, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

To answer the actual question, yes, transits and occultations are considered by astrologers to strengthen the conjunction in question.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 20:22, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Steve, that was a really inappropriate post on a number of counts. The question wasn't about the scientific view of the validity of astrology, which you would have been well qualified to answer. It was a technical question about transits and occultations, terms that are used within astrology, which you clearly count yourself not in any way associated with, so on this occasion you are not the expert. The astrological transit is not what you guessed it must mean from your knowledge of astronomical transits. Your post also breaches incivility, good faith, and possibly some other rules. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:09, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

I disagree - I did in fact read astrological transit in advance of writing my piece. I wonder whether you have? An astrological transit is related to how a planet moves from one section of the astrological calendar to the next - quite unlike an astronomical transit which is when one object moves across the disk of another (such as a solar eclipse). In fact, I specifically described the astrological transit of a planet from one constellation to another (from the fish into the hunter) as a concrete example of what an astrological transit is - AND how it has come to be seen as significant to astrologers. I'll admit to attempting a light-hearted answer - but the question is merely one of opinion. Some ancient guy made that arbitary decision - and it's been passed down through generations of astrologers who no longer have any clue why. That's the plain, simple, objective TRUTH. Truth matters - bullshit is still bullshit. SteveBaker (talk) 03:18, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Whether the question was "merely one of opinion" or not, you didn't answer it. That is also the truth. You do not have to believe in astrology to agree that there is an answer to the question of what astrologers consider more or less significant, which was what the question asked. --Trovatore (talk) 03:24, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Speaking as a Libra, I'd say that Steve's answer was no less mis-directed than many other good faith answers which mis-target the precise question. Steve is in fact pointing out that the significance is insignificant due to the error-prone nature of the astrological interpretation. The fact that his answer came first does not make it definitive - it is nonetheless correct. Franamax (talk) 03:30, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Correct perhaps; responsive no. A responsive answer would have included the information that astrologers do consider such events more significant (if that's true; I really don't know), or that they don't, in the other case, or perhaps that there is not a consensus among astrologers on the issue. --Trovatore (talk) 03:34, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

So let us consider your answer [16] to the question: "Is it just me, or is newsmaker Sarah Palin kind of hot?" to which you answered with something about "The creation of the American Republic..." with no significant information on Sarah Palins perceived hotness. That was truly a completely inadequate answer and I regret that I failed to berate you for it at the time! (In other words - lighten up for chrissakes!) SteveBaker (talk) 06:03, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, that was in response to an intervening post, not to the original question. But in any case I wasn't "berating" you; as I said, I enjoyed your post. I just had to agree with Jack that it wasn't really responsive (and what I didn't say, which was that it was a bit heavy on that "evangelist for naturalism" thing that you sometimes do). --Trovatore (talk) 06:18, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

The post was well done and I enjoyed reading it, so I can see how Steve would have wanted to post it having thought of it. But it's certainly true that it wasn't an answer to the question. Now, I don't believe in astrology either, which is hardly surprising given that I'm a Gemini. --Trovatore (talk) 23:19, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Ha ha! The irony! — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 02:53, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Incidentally, aren't the three stars in a triangle a bull? The stars in the shape of a saucepan and those in the shape of a tiny saucepan are bears. --Tango (talk) 03:29, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Two stars make a dog! (I think?) Franamax (talk) 03:33, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

That's a big part of the problem - all sorts of attributes of the constellations are based on a mere handful of stars - that could, frankly, be anything - that wouldn't look like that if you scooched over a few parsecs to your left. Indeed "The Big Dipper" for Americans - is "Ursa Major" or "The Great Bear" for we Brits. In other cultures, other objects, animals and people are "seen" in the stars. Just look through our articles on the astrological constellations and you can see that the "attributes" are closely aligned with whatever random picture someone saw in the stars a few thousand years ago. Libra - the scales - has a "balanced" personality. Taurus - the bull - implies stubbornness and hard work (just what you'd expect from an agrarian society who plough their fields with oxen). Pick a different culture and a whole different set of pictures are there - with a whole different set of attributes. Heck - take a look at Cancer (astrology) - it says that "Astrologers are in broad agreement that..." "...Cancers as usually having brown hair, a well-defined face, a tan complexion, a prominent forehead, penetrating eyes of green or blue". Hmmm - tell that to the millions of Africans with almost exclusively black hair and brown eyes no matter when during the year they happen to have been born! Of the roughly half billion people living on Earth who were born under this star sign - would you like to hesitate a guess as to the percentage that have penetrating blue or green eyes? I'd be surprised if it was more than 5%. The point being - if astrologers are going around saying that kind of easily disprovable nonsense - then it's anyone's guess what random rubbish any given one of them might ramble on about the significance or otherwise of transits and occultations. SteveBaker (talk) 05:44, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Just be glad the question was asked here and not on the science desk. You're not going to get anywhere trying to change people's minds - anyone willing and able to consider the matter rationally won't believe in it in the first place, and those that aren't will never listen to you. --Tango (talk) 05:48, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

So. The question was clearly intended to be interpreted as: "In astrology, are transits and occultations considered by astrologers to be more significant than ordinary conjunctions?". A precis of your responses, Steve, might be: "It's irrelevant what they think because it's all bullshit anyway". This is the bit I have a problem with. You're absolutely entitled to your opinion, but whether that opinion is relevant or useful to our dear questioner is another matter entirely. I take the view that we're here to answer specific questions. If you happen to know something about the question ** in the context in which it's been framed **, by all means speak up. If not, you're not doing anyone a service by debunking the entire general subject that the question is a tiny part of. If someone asked whether it's better to buy a small fuel-efficient car or a larger less efficient one that might however be more suitable for a family with 3 children, the range of appropriate responses would not include a polemic about how all cars are instruments of the devil, and ranting on about the military-industrial complex, and raving on about how GWB's only interest in Iraq is about the oil supplies and so on ad nauseam. All they want to know is some pros and cons about buying a small car or a larger car. The whole subject of the worldwide automobile industry and its links with governments and global oil cartels was not remotely the question they were asking. The analogy here is that this question was not remotely about the validity or otherwise of astrology, but something much more focussed and specific. You've given very clear and well reasoned answers - but to the wrong question. -- JackofOz (talk) 08:04, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Not only that, he's also made an astronomical error. The Big Dipper is not the North American name for Ursa Major or the Great Bear; it's the North American name for the Plough, an asterism within Ursa Major (forming the bear's tail and hindquarters -- or a plough, or a dipper, depending on how you look at it). --Anonymous, 10:04 UTC, September 8, 2008.

Returning question - Re.: EARTHQUAKE!

The question was this: Are you guys OK? I have heard on the news that you got hit by a earthquake. Someone removed it as a "non-question".

The question mark is, or was there. The

?

was in the original question. I was trying to find out if you guys made it after you guys experienced your first earthquake.65.163.117.163 (talk) 18:48, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

I haven't experienced an earthquake for several years now. I'm coping with it. Algebraist 19:00, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Same here - no earthquake. As explained before - this is not a question for a reference desk to answer. We're here to look up things in Wikipedia or books or articles or Google or whatever. It's not a forum for chatting about earthquake experiences. Just sticking a question mark in there doesn't change that fact. SteveBaker (talk) 19:17, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Same here, no earthquake in Birmingham UK. Who and where exactly do you think "you guys" are?--Shantavira|^{feed me} 20:25, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Wikimedia moved to San Francisco, and about two days ago, had a earthquake there. 65.163.117.163 (talk) 20:30, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

But we aren't affiliated with the Wikimedia Foundation any more than you are. They just run the web site. I gather from the news reports that no one was hurt. -- BenRG (talk) 22:27, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

No post on the reference desk should be removed without mentioning it on the talk page (I’m tempted to say “ever”). For whoever reverted the first post, please leave a note next time. It’s important to maintain transparency, especially when reverting posts by other editors. Thanks, --S.dedalus (talk) 23:41, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

So I actually am in the Bay Area, and did feel the little quake. I'm fine. Thanks for asking. (Actually, the thanks are insincere; it was not an appropriate refdesk question, and IMO simply removing it was probably the appropriate course of action.) --Trovatore (talk) 03:42, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

WP:BITE. Let's be nice. --Nricardo (talk) 10:38, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually, this guy (65.*) is not a newcomer by any means, he's a regular poster on here. But I still agree that we should be nice to him. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 10:40, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Quite a website

Come on people, donate to Wikipedia. This place is GREAT!!!!!!!! 65.163.117.163 (talk) 18:48, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

1. This is not the place to beg for money.
2. It's people who READ Wikipedia (or who ASK questions on the Ref Desks) who should be paying for it - those of us who are WRITING it (or ANSWERING questions) should be getting paid!
3. Most people here are already contributors - EVERYONE here is aware that Wikipedia needs money - hence this is a bad place to ask.
4. Did I mention this is not the place to beg for money?

SteveBaker (talk) 19:14, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

But thanks for saying we're great, the appreciation is appreciated! --Tango (talk) 20:52, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Your best way to show your appreciation is to help build the encyclopedia with us. Come to the dark side: we have cookies. -- _{Escape Artist Swyer} ^{Talk to me} _{The mess I've made} 21:31, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Are you saying that editors should be paid? If so, how much? By the hour or by the edit? Or by the type of edit? Or by the quality of the edit? Would we pay vandals too? Halli B (talk) 21:47, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Give me $100 and I'll make an executive decision on those questions. - Lambajan 02:05, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

We should be paid at a rate to be determined by the total monetary contributions made by the people who read words we wrote - scaled in proportion to the number of those words that survive in the articles they read - minus some percentage of the "earnings" of the words we delete. Hence, vandals would get very little since their words are rapidly reverted. People who write articles that nobody will read (eg on non-notable subjects) would earn very little - and people who engage in huge content wars would find that a very small proportion of their words are ever read - even if the articles they write are most important. People who contribute money would encourage authors who write on the kinds of subject they are interested in more than people who 'mooch' by reading without paying - so there is some incentive to contribute. Messing up a well-read article (such as a featured article that's been extensively read because it's been on the front page) would be something you'd only do if you had the courage of your convictions! The cash value of getting an article to "featured" status would be very well worth the effort!

Nah - I'm kidding. Of course we shouldn't be paid - Wikipedia is broke as it is! SteveBaker (talk) 03:08, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually, the foundation is doing pretty well financially - they're hiring lots of new staff which is always a good sign. Of course, that's not a reason for paying contributors, it's a reason for spending the money on useful things - people contribute without getting paid, so why pay them? --Tango (talk) 03:25, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

September 8

landscape page - directional face?

In a book or document, which is the correct direction for a landscape oriented page to face? Should it face to the right or to the left, please?75.101.23.231 (talk) 01:04, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

It should face with the top of the landscape page at the gutter, and the bottom at the outer edge of the book, either left or right. — Michael J 02:11, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I want to be president of Iceland

Icelandic presidential election, 2008 Looks easy.

But seriously, are most elected officials in Iceland paid? Cause judging by the listlessness of presidential elections you can just pluck some elected sinecure.

Lotsofissues 02:33, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

President of Iceland is almost certainly a full time job, so it is almost certainly paid. I don't know the details, but I would imagine the reason no-one stood is because the incumbent is so popular they knew they wouldn't win, so becoming president wouldn't be as easy as it looks (for anyone else)! --Tango (talk) 02:37, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

[17] gives the salary as ISK 1,807,000, which is EUR 14,388.44, GBP 11,557.32 or USD 20,726.88, which seems a surprisingly low salary for a president (that article has other MPs and civil servants earning less, so it's not just that President is a purely ceremonial role). Either that article is wrong or there are significant bonuses, allowances and perks as well that aren't included. --Tango (talk) 02:46, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I've worked as an election judge in Maryland, and I can tell you listlessness is not limited to Iceland. While I'm sure it's a terrific place, and while I've spent at least four hours in its charming airport, Iceland has a population roughly half that of Baltimore. Also, the president of Iceland does have a mainly ceremonial position, though he or she serves as the Grand Master of the Order of the Falcon. --- OtherDave (talk) 11:35, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't know about Iceland, but in the US, the perks, bonuses, and such include transportation, housing, and food, and in order to get elected, you need to already have a pretty decent wardrobe. Once you subtract those, $21,000 a year is plenty to live on. --Carnildo (talk) 00:43, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, but MPs don't get anywhere near the same perks as a president, they would expect a decent salary, but the article I link to says they make less than the president. (Is it possible those figures are monthly, not annual, salaries? Multiply everything by 12 and it's far more realistic...) --Tango (talk) 10:05, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps $20,000 is considered a decent wage in Iceland? By the way, I would take "Grand Master of the Order of the Falcon" as a title any day, for $20,000 a year!!! Fucking cool! — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 10:16, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Seems like a fairly decent wage - especially because the last thing you would want to do would be to have a president who was in it for the money, rather than for the good of the country. Bradley10 (talk) 15:38, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

I know Olafur -- everyone's on a first-name basis in Iceland -- a few years back was restoring an old Packard FDR gave the country. (Here's a picture of it.) I don't know how many other heads of state get the time to restore a classic car. But then again, I don't know how many other heads of state would have to do their own auto repair. I wonder if he's listed in the phone book like a lot of mayors in the U.S.? -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:51, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Guitar/Violin hybrid?

What is that guitar/violin-hybrid-like instrument at 1:27-1:34 in this video? --antilived^{T | C | G} 04:50, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

A Nyckelharpa --S.dedalus (talk) 05:55, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Dang. Too slow. The keyed version is a hurdy-gurdy. Steewi (talk) 06:21, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Wow those are some strange instruments... So really it's a keyboard fitted onto a violin and maybe use a wheel to strike the strings? I originally thought they used a cello for that part. --antilived^{T | C | G} 06:41, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

The nyckelharpa is bowed with a violin (viola?) bow, and that is the one in the video. The hurdy-gurdy doesn't feature in that clip, but that is the one that is played by the rotating wheel. Both use the keyed board to depress the strings. This youtube vid shows a hurdy gurdy being played. Steewi (talk) 03:46, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Advance Corporate Etiquite

what is Advance Corporate Etiquette? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.98.115.255 (talk) 07:28, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure there is a strict definition of advanced corporate etiquette, but it will be the advanced parts of the etiquette used in business situations, see Etiquette#Western business etiquette for some information on that. --Tango (talk) 07:51, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

education in kenya

1. why has educaton system in kenya failed to promote unity?

2.what are the challenges of free education in kenya? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.49.92.80 (talk) 10:18, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Do your own homework. — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 10:23, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Was there really any need for the personal insult in the edit summary? But yes, please do your own homework, however you may find Education in Kenya useful TheGreatZorko (talk) 10:39, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I spent a year in secondary education in Kenya - if you have any specific questions, post 'em here and I'll be happy to answer them. SteveBaker (talk) 17:48, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

What is an impairment charge?

From the Daily Telegraph:

The deteriorating property market means the society will report an £11.5m impairment charge in the current year on a single secured commercial mortgage loan and an unaudited pre-tax loss of £10.5m.

What is an impairment charge and should Wikipedia have a page on it? -- Q Chris (talk) 11:30, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

This was third on the list when I googled "impairment charge." --- 11:37, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I believe it is the UK term for a writedown, which you do when you have an impaired asset. Franamax (talk) 15:56, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

After I sufficiently tortured Write-off to confess the truth, I have made the OP's red-link turn blue. (Tho' "impairment charge" might also refer to comments on my wiki-editing later in the day than it is now, 'tis true :) I'd welcome any review - where are the accounting-pedians when you need them? Franamax (talk) 22:42, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Personal advice

Chaela89 (talk) 14:15, 8 September 2008 (UTC)I dont really know how to use this.But me and my fiance moved down to mississippi at the end of july. my mom had to come get me and bring me back to iowa because my dogs couldnt take the heat. We had argued alot in the past and he was being so mean because i was leaving. Well the day i left he cried and begged me not to go. After i left,, on the phone he was so mean and never wanted to talk to me.at the end of august i went to visit him and he was mean but he made love to me and we cuddled and it was good, I felt love from him.but i also couldnt help but feel used.my heart says hes loyal but my head is being stupid making me think hes using me and making him mad at me. when i got back he was mean again. I yelled at him and told him that i had enough of this being mean crap and iw ould leave him if it didnt stop. Well he stopped and started telling me he loved me again. and now Its almost a month till i can be with him forever and i dont know if its worth it, we have two dogs that are our children and his dog is just waisting away for him and it breaks my heart. but is my fiances anger permanent or will is go away when im with him. I know i love him but somtimes i wonder if its truly worth it, please some advice.

Chaela89Chaela89 (talk) 14:15, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Generally speaking, you would do well not to take life-critical advice from strangers on the internet. Do you have trusted family or friends you can consult with instead? — Lomn 15:55, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Indeed. But nothing in your description suggests that he'll exhibit anything but the current pattern of behaviour. You need to decide if that's what you want. Many many people have married in haste and regretted it in leisure. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:01, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Let me second the advice to ask your trusted friends for advice- they know you, they know him, and they are more likely to be able to judge what your wisest action would be. You probably already know which friends you can count on to tell you what you need to know, not just what you want to hear. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 16:06, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

im 19 and hes 21 but i know i love him and need him. I cry when i think of leaving him although i think he would be better of without me complicating his life with my doubts and frustrations. and no i cant trust family and friends, they dont know that side of me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chaela89 (talk • contribs) 19:24, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I think he is being mean because he misses you so much and wants to be with you all the time. forget about the dogs, go back to him and you will both be happy forever. But maybe I am just a romantic male fool. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 16:09, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Or maybe he's just always been a prick and you've been so consumed by love (or what you believe to be love) that you really made excuses for his actions in your mind. I'm sorry if I sound blunt, but you said yourself you guys have been arguing a lot. And if it was enough to make you move away and transplant your entire life, it must have been pretty significant. Can I ask how old you are? --Endlessdan and his problem 17:21, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Relationships take work. Go back to Mississippi - buy an airconditioner for the dog-house. SteveBaker (talk) 17:46, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I would advise caution like Tagishsimon and Endlessdan said, but even more than that I would agree with Lomn and FisherQueen. We're an outside perspective, but we're so far outside we don't have nearly enough to go on. There must be someone you can talk to, even if it's a professional or you have to dig deep and get an old acquaintance from high school who knows the two of you. - Lambajan 19:27, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree with everything LambaJan says. There are two sides to every story and as complete strangers, we're in no position to give you the best advice. Ask a friend or family member. --Endlessdan and his problem 20:06, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

While I don't know the whole story, I do want to add a few things that you need to ask yourself.

1. Is this love or lust you feel. It may only be lust, but it may be love. It's easy for the heart to be fooled; feelings change. That's why you need to be careful, and not follow your heart into something too hastily.

2. Love is not just about getting, it's about giving. It's great if you both give, but what is he willing to give? How did you two even meet? Iowa and Mississippi - I question the advice of those who think a person can know both of you, because I think it's possible you don't have mutual friends.

3. Would you still love him if you were 89 and 91? If he was elderly and all wrinkled? (A good test for love versus lust)

4. What do you two have in common? Anything beside sthe fact you like each other's looks? Yes, opposites can attract, but when they do, there is committment on each part fo grow closer to each toer so they are not as opposite anymore. In other words, x loves the great outdoors, y would rather stay at home and watch TV. Y might do some outdorosy stuff like go on long walks with X, or learn to ride a horse, but X will give up that dream of backpacking through the Rocky Mountains every year. Or, maybe Y will do it just once to surprise X for an anniversary, but not otherwise. X will watch TV with Y, but only the Discovery Channel. See what I mean by giving, and compromise? Don't give if he's not willing to give.

That last is why the others are saying they can't give advice; they dont' know his side of the story. Maybe he has given some stuff for you, maybe he hasn't. He can have his interests, even obsessions (see some sports fans, and so can you. But, it's the things you share that are important. You need to factor in what his personality is like, and the fact that he is probably not going to change, unless oemthing dramatic happens, as someone else said. 209.244.187.155 (talk) 20:44, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Sunburn

I hope you had a big farm in the sunburn! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.213.141.241 (talk) 20:06, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I had a dream with this quote. What does it mean? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.213.141.241 (talk) 20:10, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Probably nothing. - Lambajan 20:14, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Colorless green ideas sleep furiously ? SteveBaker (talk) 01:30, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Nice one Steve - Noam Chomsky! On the other hand buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo. Franamax (talk) 15:56, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm - you messed up the capitalisation of that sentence...see this: ====>

SteveBaker (talk) 17:26, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana. Saintrain (talk) 21:16, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

...and Green flies like a lettuce. SteveBaker (talk) 17:14, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Seen painted on the outside of a college building: "Do not if the when go to, but only as it very since." Edison (talk) 16:26, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

What's the difference between a chicken? The answer is as enigmatic as the question: "One of its legs is both the same". -- JackofOz (talk) 20:57, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, if we're starting on the corny jokes, then I must ask: "What's green, sits in a cage and sings?"

→ A red herring.

(Not that I'm passing judgement on the quality of the answers here, of course.) Gwinva (talk) 21:13, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I feel more like I do now than I did before I read this thread. Edison (talk) 04:37, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Backwards knee in humans

Hi. Are there any documented cases of humans with backwards knees, either congenital or as a result of abuse? I ask because I have heard rumours of young children kidnapped for the purpose of begging by various street gangs whose knees had been turned backwards in order to prevent them from running/escaping. What I mean by backwards is that they were facing opposite of the way normal human knees do, whereas everything else, such as the direction of the foot, remains the same. I have very early memories about two cases like these which I have seen on the street: A man with both knees turned backward (resulting in him walking on all fours; a rather gruesome sight), and a boy with just one of the knees turned backward, thus allowing him to stand upright, but also allowing him to flex his knees with a large rhomboid space in-between. I am only concerned that these are false memories or very vivid dreams, which is why I am looking for written or photographic evidence of such things being possible. Thanks in advance for any kind of info you may have.

P.S.: On an unrelated basis, how much of the lower body can be removed from a human being without endangering his life? Up to his thighs, hips or even abdomen (theoretically with removal or considerable replacing of his internal organs)? sfaefaol 20:32, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

There is a rare medical condition, congenital genu recurvatum, that can cause this; there is a photo of a young woman with the condition at this web site. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 22:03, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

In answer to your postscript, a hemicorporectomy is amputation at the waist. Needless to say, it's extremely rare and is quite complicated in terms of health effects, and rehabilitation afterwards, not to mention psychological effects. Gwinva (talk) 22:15, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

How does one urinate and defecate after a hemicorporectomy? Acceptable (talk) 00:25, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

This section of the article describes the answer to that problem. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 00:28, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Adding pictures

Hi, I was wondering how to add pictures on wikipedia. On the Guildford Heat Nationals U'14's there is a image but it is copyright. How do I add that image to it?

Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Listen 2 (talk • contribs) 20:34, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Check out Help:Images and other uploaded files. Feel free to ask any questions you still have after reading it. --Tango (talk) 21:05, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

First of all, Wikipedia related questions should be directed to Wikipedia:Help desk. Second of all, you make an image by inserting the code [[Image:UPLOADEDIMAGENAME|thumb|CAPTION]]. The thumb parameter is optional, as specified in WP:IMAGE. Pie is good ^{(Apple is the best)} 21:13, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

If the image you want to upload is copyrighted, then it's probably unsuitable for Wikipedia (see Wikipedia:Non-free content). If you are unsure about its use, then ask at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions‎, where there are many helpful people who know about such things. Gwinva (talk) 22:33, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Cold Air "Funnel"

While I was on the Weather Channel website, tracking Ike, I went to the "Servere Weather alert" section, so I clicked on it, clicked on the regional area, clicked on Texas (where Ike might land at), and found two counties in Texas under some kind of Special Alert. So I clicked in these two counties, and found out that one of the two counties had a warning for cold air funnels.

What is a "Cold Air Funnel"? Is it some kind of tornado? 65.163.117.163 (talk) 21:19, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

If you like, I'll show you what I've found. 65.163.117.163 (talk) 21:22, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Before tornadoes reach the ground they are (cold) funnel clouds. Presumably that alert means that funnel clouds have been spotted and that therefore tornadoes are very likely. Plasticup ^T/C 21:23, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Seen what you're referring to. That pix is cool and unusual. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.163.117.163 (talk) 21:27, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Forgot sig. Getting old —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.163.117.163 (talk) 21:29, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Got caught in a Edit conflict. WHAT causes these? 65.163.117.163 (talk) 21:31, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

(This should be moved to the science desk) Franamax (talk) 21:34, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Have you tried Funnel cloud#Cold-air funnel clouds?

Sure did. Cool pix. 65.163.117.163 (talk) 21:54, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

One other thing: Are these, tornadoes responsible for strange "fish falls" (when it rains fish), frogs falling out of the sky, that sort of thing? 65.163.117.163 (talk) 22:01, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

See Raining animals. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:45, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

September 9

Chinese Workers

What are some popular jobs people take up in China? 220.233.83.26 (talk) 06:52, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Try here Economy of the_People's Republic of China#Demographics and Agriculture in the People's Republic of China#Workforce too. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 09:58, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

I've changed your external links to internal links.--antilived^{T | C | G} 00:05, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Were you looking for jobs people from outside China take there, like teaching English? Edison (talk) 16:24, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Wii games sales percentages

Why do Wii games have a higher PAL region sales percentage than N64/Gamecube games? February 15, 2009 (talk) 07:39, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Probably because there have been more Wiis sold? I can't find an exact figure, but outside of Americas and Japan, the console has apparently sold over 10 million units. I think it's safe to assume that a very big chunk of those were sold in Europe. For the GameCube, the comparable figure was a little under five million, and for the Nintendo 64, a little under seven million. And that's throughout those devices' entire lifespan; the Wii still has years to go until it's replaced.

But there are also at least two other factors at play here: first of all, at least in the case of GameCube, the European support for the console was fairly sparse. A lot of games that were released in Japan or the United States were published in Europe much later, or not at all. The GameCube was a pretty nifty console, and it was certainly cheap, but the selection of games available was pretty sparse, which didn't encourage people to buy the console, no matter how cheap it was.

Also, historically, Europe hasn't been console-gamin' country. Computer gaming has traditionally been more popular in Europe than in the US (or Japan). This has led to things like the demoscene emerging in Europe. Things have certainly evened out in recent years, though; once the PS2 and the Xbox (and especially the current generation of consoles) arrived, the focus started to shift... so there's simply a lot more interest in console gaming in general today than there was in the days of the N64 and the GameCube. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 08:30, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

how many people have been killed by a clown?

i know there are killer clowns about roaming and killing children and maybe adults,

what is the total clown death toll?? Bradley10 (talk) 13:00, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

How do you know this? What is your reliable source. What, come to that, is your definition of clown? If it extends to muppets with guns & knives, then I'd be inclined to agree with you. --Tagishsimon (talk) 13:03, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

If you count certain national leaders as "clowns" then its pretty high. ;-) -- Q Chris (talk) 13:31, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Ah, I have just found [this] also which, although it doesn't entirely answer my question, is interesting to the question... is JWG counted in this list? Bradley10 (talk) 13:34, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Killer Klowns from Outer Space is the only wikipedia information I could find on this trolltopic. Faithfully, Deltopia (talk) 14:44, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Heh. I just bought that DVD.  :) Corvus cornix_talk 20:23, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

John Wayne Gacy was both a clown and killer, so at least 33. --Sean 15:05, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

As disturbing as this man was, I don't believe that there was any connection between his clowning activities and his choice of victims (who while young were all mid-teens to early twenties) Rmhermen (talk) 15:51, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

"To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kinda scary. I've wondered where this started, and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus and a clown killed my dad." — Jack Handey — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 15:46, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Modern clown/killer or clown/demon linkage comes from Stephen King's work in 1990, but the notion of the evilness of clowns dates back at least to silent movie horror star Lon Chaney, Sr., who supposedly said "There is nothing laughable about a clown in the moonlight." BBC. There are lots of news articles discussing the horror of a clown face for children. [18]. One could note numerous instances of clowns, including rodeo clowns, killing people [19], but to be accurate such statistics would need to be collected by law enforcement authorities. Even then they might be exaggerated to excite (like for domestic terrorism) or diminish (like justifying killings by police officers) the public's fear of clowns . Edison (talk) 16:21, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Tool

What can be the use of this tool: [20] [21] (No parts of it are movable - it is a rigid body.) (And if you don't know, where I could ask such question?) 83.23.205.167 (talk) 13:07, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Some sort of combined pruning knife/saw? --Tagishsimon (talk) 13:53, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Tagishsimon has it right. It does have a moving part, the shears are used to clip off shoots and branches, the saw is used for plant bits that are too big to clip. Diagnosis: Garden tool (pic should be in the article if it's free). Franamax (talk) 14:17, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Fish scaler? Saintrain (talk) 14:20, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Yup, I'm going for combined knife/saw, not secateurs (i.e. no moving part supposition) --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:27, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, but look at the second picture. On the second picture, to the right, are fingertips, giving a clue to the size of the thing. Also, it's not a sawblade, it's a serrated scoop. Kitchen implement of some sort. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 16:25, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. Clearly not a saw. Not much like any fish-scaler I've seen in a quick trawl of the net. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:29, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Groan - Terrible-pun-of-the-week-award for Tagishsimon please! SteveBaker (talk) 17:09, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Fitness

“I would like to know the excersizes & workouts necessary to increase height from 3-4 inches. I necessary, also cite some of the nutritional products for same available in India.” —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vipinn (talk • contribs) 16:56, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Exercise and workouts can reduce fat, build muscle, strengthen your heart, improve oxygen uptake and generally make you fitter - but they cannot make your bones bigger - which is the only thing that could make you taller. So no amount of diet or exercise will make you taller. Human growth hormone can do it - but only while you are young and still growing. It's also not something you want to mess with unless you are unusually short due to some growth defect - in which case, that would fall under our ban on giving medical advice - and you should see a doctor. If you see "nutritional products" that claim something to be able to do this - ignore them - they are a scam.

SteveBaker (talk) 17:07, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

If you are still growing, then a good diet can make a big difference. If you're malnourished as a child, you generally won't grow to your full potential. --Tango (talk) 18:24, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

I grew up to be around 3 inches taller than my brother. My dad hypothesized that this was due to my playing American football while I was in puberty, not so much because of the exercise but because of the many impacts which, as the theory goes, stimulated my bone growth. My dad isn't a doctor and neither am I. I'm actually posting this more as a question than anything. It's probably completely wrong, but is there any possibility of it not being completely wrong? - Lambajan 22:50, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

this stub may shed some light. It seems that the more impact a bone part gets, the more bone parts it gets.--Lenticel ^(talk) 23:45, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

There is also cosmetic surgery to lengthen leg bones in particular. It is a rather drastic option, and this information comes with no advice whatsoever. [22] ៛ Bielle (talk) 01:51, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

A boy I went to school with for 12 years was the runt of the class. He lived in an abusive home environment. He joined the Navy after high school and had a growth spurt and grew to 6 feet (1.83 meters). Just saying. Edison (talk) 04:32, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Importantly important

Does anyone know the e-mail address and/or phone number of those mad scientists with the machine that could destroy the world? February 15, 2009 (talk) 23:27, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Many people know that information. Please do not misuse the ref-desk by posting questions with false premises, even if done facetiously. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:43, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

You mean the LHC? Try http://www.cern.ch/ . However, I suspect they are rather busy right now and have already responded to all the concerns people have about the experiment (try reading some of the news articles on the subject), so I would advise against wasting their time (you won't get anywhere anyway, I expect they receive emails and phone calls on a daily basis about it). --Tango (talk) 23:44, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Repent! Repent! — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 00:39, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

As I WOULD have just posted on my blog if I wasn't at school and the site wasn't blocked, if I have to tell one more person the world isn't going to end...Avnas Ishtaroth _{drop me a line} 01:38, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I've been telling people the world isn't going to end as well. If I'm wrong, nobody will ever know, so I win either way. -88.109.98.70 (talk) 11:51, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

The math of this question is interesting. When Fermi and company fired off the first atomic bomb during WW2, there was a similar concern that there was a very small probability of devastating consequences that the nuke would start a process which would end human life on earth (it has yet to be determined whether in an indirect way that might yet happen through nuclear proliferation).If there is a one in a million chance of an undesirable event, such as a bridge collapsing while we drive over it, or a subway tunnel collapsing while we ride a train through it, most rational people would proceed with their travel. If the event is the end of the world, then there would be a 1 in 1,000,000 chance of killing 6.7 billion people, or a mathematical expectation of the deaths of 6,700 people as a result of pressing the "Start" button, which would be twice the devastation of the 9/11 terrorist attacks. What is an acceptable risk? A 1 in 100,000,000 risk would be equivalent to killing 67 people outright by pressing the "Start" button, still probably unacceptable when the only benefit is an advance in knowledge of high energy physics. But a leader of a country would consider 67 deaths a small price to pay for some military adventure which gained him some political advantage. Looking at it the other way, if a major public work is built, like a major dam, a tunnel, a bridge, or even the excavations for the collider, several workmen are likely to be killed in construction accidents, and this is judged regrettable but does not prevent the project from going ahead. Most rational people would want the chances of an experiment ending human life on earth to be very small indeed, as in utterly impossible. Those with some historical perspective will recall that early X ray experimenters were as certain that rays could not harm a person as promoters of this atom smasher are that it could not create unruly and destructive black holes. Yet Xrays killed many people such as Clarence Madison Dally. Edison (talk) 16:04, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Wow!! Well, I was going to recommend you visit the web site at http colon slash slash www dot ehow dot com slash how_2049858_make-tinfoil-hat dot html and follow their excellent instructions carefully. But for the first time EVER (for me) Wikipedia refused to accept my edit because that website is on it's blacklist!?! (I had no idea there even WAS a blacklist!) Well, if that isn't proof of a great Wikipedia/LHC conspiracy - I don't know what is! Better make sure you buy the things you'll need soon - because I'm sure supplies are running low already. SteveBaker (talk) 17:06, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps we need a listing of signs that a small black hole might be absorbing things in one's proximity. Like: 10:I can't find my car keys. 9:I call the cat and it does not appear. 8:Wasn't there one piece of pie left in the refrigerator? Edison (talk) 04:29, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

September 10

"Re-entering" student...

Ok, here's my story: I graduated from college about 5 years ago with a B.A. in English, convinced I was going to be a teacher. Well, that didn't work out so well (i.e., I hated it), so I ended up doing other stuff. One thing led to another, blah blah blah, and I've come to realize that my interests really lay in Computer Science. My work has sort of been involved with comp sci, but on a more functional rather than technical side. Right now, for example, my job is sort of akin to a business systems analyst (albeit nowhere near as glamorous as that sounds (does it even sound glamorous?))

I've been thinking for a long time about getting more of an education in Computer Science, but I'm really struggling figuring out how to do it. I don't even mean the money or time issues, since I'm prepared to take out loans if I have to and am willing to commit whatever time I have (that isn't sucked up by my 9-5 job to pay the bills). I'm really just talking about how to even go about getting started. I've been looking at local colleges, and of course they offer degrees in Computer Science, but all the information I've seen seems to be geared towards "traditional" undergrad students. One of the local colleges offesr certification programs in specific aspects of comp sci (i.e., certain languages and applications), and I've been considering those as well.

I guess I'm just looking for advice and/or guidance on how to proceed? I imagine it would be a good idea to call the Admissions office, but what do I ask them? I guess that sounds like a dumb question, but I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed by all this, and if anybody out there has had experience with this / knows someone who has / knows where I can find more information, I'd be grateful. I don't really have any friends who are considering or have done something like this, so you faceless masses of the Internets are my next best hope. Thanks in advance for any help. Dgcopter (talk) 00:58, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

The Open University specializes in "non-traditional" students. DuncanHill (talk) 01:01, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Let's start with, which country are you in, and what exactly do you think you want to do if you get a comp sci degree? Business systems analysis, for instance, does not in my experience benefit much from a comp sci degree. In the UK, you might be much better off getting ITIL or PRINCE qualifications, for instance. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:03, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm actually in the U.S. As for what I was thinking about doing, I guess I was hoping to get more involved in the technical side of things (i.e., programming and design). Dgcopter (talk) 01:20, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm in a similar boat myself. I have a BA in Film, but I realized that I wanted to do graphic design so I'm returning to school in two weeks to get an Associate's Degree. While I was working my 9 to 5 job (which I've sent left), I started taking night classes at two local community colleges in Photography, Graphic Design and Japanese. They were great because they were very affordable and really offered an education that I felt was as good as a four-year school's programs.

I would suggest that you maybe do the same. While you're working, you can get started taking night classes in computer science at a local community college. It sounds like you already have computer science knowledge, so it probably wouldn't be hard to get the basic stuff done while you're still working. If you want to get into your new career, you're probably going to need to leave your job (or work part-time) and attend college on a full-time basis (I believe that many loans require you to attend school at least half-time as well). If you're looking at a specific program, call up that college and tell them that you're interested in a post-baccalaureate program and you're wondering how to go about it. Ask about job placement as well. Ask them what kind of jobs graduates receive when they're done with the program. That will give you an idea of what the program is geared toward. Zepheus <ゼィフィアス> (talk) 02:28, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

You might wish to look at the age distribution of students at the colleges you are considering. If almost all students at a college are attending right out of high school and live in the dorms, you may have trouble fitting in as a peer, which is important both socially and in terms of getting together to work on homework and to study. If, on the other hand, a college has a lot of commuter students, those who are taking evening/weekend classes while they work, veterans who have taken a few years off to do military service, or displaced housewives who are completing their education after getting divorced, you may find you are less of an oddball in the population. Edison (talk) 15:43, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, you might want to think about this - do you actually need a degree in computer science? If you merely had lots of knowledge in the area of computer science - and your teaching degree - wouldn't that be enough to land you a job in that field? It's certainly possible to teach yourself the programming side of things. The single biggest factor in how good a programmer you'll be is the number and size of the programs you've written - and if you were to carry on with your present job and become a "self taught" programmer in your spare time - then you'd be no worse off than a fresh-faced graduate straight out of a comp.sci course at college. If you wanted to - you could even take a couple of course units in your local community college to make sure you're covering the right ground.

If you think that's a viable route to the job you want then I would do this:

1. Pick up the most basic introductory book on "Java" that you can find.
2. Download the free software package "Eclipse" - which is a Java "IDE" (Integrated Development Environment)...which is how you enter your programs, run them, find and fix bugs.
3. Go through the book from cover to cover - work all of the examples. Surf the web for other Java stuff that seems interesting (there is an enormous amount of stuff out there).
4. Practice, practice, practice. Think of a project - something that interests you - maybe something that would be useful at work...write it - get it working nicely.
5. Once you have Java down pat - you could perhaps finagle your way into teaching it someplace. That would look great on your resume later.
6. Once Java is easy for you - switch to another programming language "C++" - do the same thing - get a book - work through it step by step. Initially, you'll find this a LOT easier than learning Java - most programming languages are kinda similar. However, you'll encounter a lot of new stuff.
7. Sign up to help out with an "OpenSource" project of some kind - teams of programmers from all around the world get together on the 'net to write software that they give away for nothing. This will expose you to a lot more code - a lot more practical issues (like finding bugs in other people's code) and will (again) look very good on your resume.

I think this process would take maybe about the same amount of time as a formal college course - but you'd be able to work while you're doing it - and it'll be a lot more self-paced.

...but then - maybe college would work better for you - I can't tell! SteveBaker (talk) 16:56, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

The real question is whether you want to study Computer Science, or become a software developer. It's true that the two are related, but they're really, really, really not the same thing.

> "One of the local colleges offesr certification programs in specific aspects of comp sci (i.e., certain languages and applications)"

If a course is about specific languages and applications, it's not computer science. (OK, a course taught in Lisp or Haskell probably is CS, but I'd still argue that that's a course in functional programming taught in Haskell as opposed to a course in Haskell per se.) 81.187.153.189 (talk) 18:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

To answer 81...'s question, I guess I didn't realize there was a way to be a software developer without having obtained a degree in Computer Science. That being the case, I would clarify that my interest in comp sci is related specifically to the area of software development. In that vein, Steve's suggestions seem especially helpful. I'm going to take a trip down to the bookstore and see if I can't find a Java book like he mentioned. I've often considered teaching myself programming languages -- in fact, I have a little experience in that area, having taught myself QBASIC back in the day (but then again, what geek born in the '80s didn't? :-)), and having taken a class in C++ in college. I guess I just wasn't sure how to go about it. Thanks to all for your very helpful suggestions!Dgcopter (talk) 18:17, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes 81's point is very valid. There is a lot more to Comp.Sci than programming. However, there is also a lot less than programming too! But if you want to become a software developer - and presuming you already have a degree of some kind - then I think you can at least consider being self-taught as an option...especially if you're prepared to take the time to do it properly. Compared to doing a degree for three years - an agressive self-help program spanning three years is cheaper, probably just as interesting - and maybe doesn't have a huge impact on your ability to get a job at the end of it. What's important is to be able to show that you've written a heck of a lot of code. If you can point to the fact that you've learned Java to the point where you've been teaching it in highschool for a year or more - and that you can show off some OpenSource package that you wrote - and that you were able to operate in a "team setting" by collaborating with people on the 'net - then I think you'll be able to get the same kind of entry-level programming job that a Comp.Sci graduate could get. You might want to get some serious career advice on that point before you launch into it on the basis of what I say alone...but I've been a working programmer since 1977 - I've hired a lot of people and I know I would be just as happy to employ someone with that kind of background as I would a Comp.Sci graduate.

I wouldn't give that advice to someone who didn't already have a degree though.

SteveBaker (talk) 19:07, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

As to which languages to learn: I strongly recommend Java - then C++ - IN THAT ORDER!! I'd have said that a course in Lisp or Haskell pretty much had to be a more theoretical-type CS course - the number of commercial programs written in either of those two languages is so small as to be effectively zero! The vast majority of jobs are in Java/JavaScript/PHP - and in C++/C#. Java is easier to learn than C++ and the things you learn when picking up Java are not wasted if you want to go the C++ route later. JavaScript and PHP are pretty trivial to pick up if you know at least one other language. C# is still pretty new and it's not entirely clear what it's ultimate commercial niche might be - a lot of people like it for programs which have heavyweight user-interface requirements and which will only ever need to run under some flavor of MS Windows. Right now, most web-based stuff is Java/JavaScript/PHP and almost 100% of high performance and embedded applications are in C++ (or C which is a limited subset of C++).

Programmers are like linguists - once you've learned a couple of languages, you can pick up more of them very easily because you're really only learning the differences between the new language and some other that you already know. I learned both PHP and JavaScript over one weekend. After 30 years of that - I honestly don't know how many languages I know...there are too many to count. But you'll always be finding new languages you need for a particular job. Python, Ruby, Perl, HLSL/Cg, Lua (and yes, Lisp and Haskell)...those are all things you may trip over along the way for some particular specialist need - but once you have C++ and Java - they won't be a problem for you.

SteveBaker (talk) 19:26, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I'd agree with most of what's been said. By way of example, I happen to work at a large software development lab, and there are plenty of people here with non-CS degrees. True, among people who joined relatively recently it's probably the most common (and is what I did) but the combined number of mathematicians, physicists and engineers is probably similar, maybe greater. English is going to be a little more unusual, but if you had the right sort of experience noone would find it remarkable. My current team-leader studied agricultural chemistry, specialising in the breakdown of sewage, and there's rumoured to be someone lurking around the lab with a qualification in crustacean pharmacology - the prescription of drugs to lobsters!

In practice, software development is only really learned by doing it. A relevant degree can give you a head start, but I learned far more about developing software by working with some very skilled peers than I ever did on the formal courses. A good hiring manager should be aware of this, and weight good solid experience appropriately. I would note that just dabbling in a language at home doesn't count as "good solid experience" though - and even doing lots of programming on your own is not great because "development" is a lot more than just "programming". Also, there are some commercial realities that you can really only learn in a commercial environment, but since your aim is to get that job it's rather like opening the box with the crowbar that's inside it :-) . If you could show at interview that you'd made significant contributions to an open-source project that people have heard of, I think that would reassure almost anyone that you were competent.

One more thing - don't rule out the formal course. Hopefully we've convinced you that learning by experience can be as good (or better, frankly) but that's not the same thing as telling you "don't do the course, it's a bad idea." And either way - best of luck!81.187.153.189 (talk) 21:18, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh well, I can always fall back on Fortran IV, Basic, Pascal, and PDP-8 assembly language [23]. Edison (talk) 04:23, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

God Being An Angel

In His Dark Materials, God, the Authority, is false, fake and fraud, not really God or a god but actually an angel. Once, in one question, I asked someone if it was possible that God could be false, fake and fraud, not really God or a god but actually an angel in reality, in the real world, in real life.

Christians claim to have a lot of proof or evidence for Christianity to be the one true religion. For example, they claim to have proof or evidence that the Bible was inspired by God and that Jesus was God and the son of God (see Christological argument). For example, they claim that the Bible has many fulfilled prophecies and that there is proof that Jesus rose from the dead. They claim to have a lot of miracles which prove Christianity to be true (see argument from miracles).

If God was false, fake and fraud, not really God or a god but actually an angel in reality, in the real world, in real life, then what would it mean for all the proofs and evidences that Christians claim for Christianity to be the one true religion? For example, what would it mean for all the miracles that Christians claim prove Christianity to be the one true religion, the argument from miracles? What would it mean for the Christological argument for the existence of God?

One thing about proofs and evidences is that they can be faked. For example, a photograph used as evidence for something can be faked.

Bowei Huang (talk) 04:58, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

The religion has been debunked dozens of times and it hasn't slowed them down one bit. Cognitive dissonance is the answer you are looking for. Plasticup ^T/C 07:05, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Of course, Plasticup. You have the complete answer to everything in the universe. If only we'd realised that sooner it would have saved us all a lot of trouble. DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:00, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

You speculate on what the implications would be for Christianity if it could be proven that God was in fact an angel, à la His Dark Materials, instead of a god. Since there is currently not a speck or shred of solid, reproducible, scientific evidence that the beliefs of Christians are any more rooted in fact than those of any other group of religious believers, and since the definition of "angel" and "god" vary enormously depending on who you talk to and what you read (and in what language), I submit to you that Christians' delight in producing a tangible, indisputable God would probably overcome any dissatisfaction with the fine detail of the exact nature of him (or her). Karenjc 13:37, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

While trying to avoid the snarkiness, Karen raises an interesting point. What's the significance of replacing Supernatural Creature A with Supernatural Creature B if B is able to do the same stuff A did? This is, of course, the duck test. A far better question is "what would happen if the miracles were disproved in a manner accepted by Christians?" Of course, since the "proofs" of skeptics and the "proofs" of believers, neither of which generally constitute actual proofs, fly right past each other to no effect, this situation is highly unlikely. — Lomn 14:51, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, it can make a difference if the issue is one of deception, e.g. worshipping a "false god" and then the "real god" punishes you for it. The little thought experiment I've always put out there is, "What if the Bible was written by Satan, and the Satan of the Bible is really God, and vice versa, and the values are actually swapped from what they should be?" People who believe recoil from the notion and usually claim that they'd somehow know the difference but I don't really see why that would be the case. The fact is that at the core of it all religions depend on the acceptance of a few core tenets and if you don't accept those then it's not even worth getting into a discussion with such people about said things. Could the Christian God be a false god and the real god be, say, the Hindu gods, etc.? Sure, just as the converse is believed to be true by most Christians. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 14:58, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

For some background on the treatment of God in His Dark Materials, the original poster may want to look at Gnosticism. Deor (talk) 15:26, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Sorry - per Lomm's post, I intended no snarkiness, just an answer to the practical implications of the original post. If God is proved to be an angel rather than this just being another suggestion of the theologians, then God's existence must inevitably have been proved too. Do believers bemoan the fact that their God was "false, fake and a fraud" and abandon him because he wasn't exactly what they expected? Do they celebrate the fact that they were pretty much on the right track but were not in possession of all the facts? Robert Heinlein's novel Job: A Comedy of Justice is quite fun on the concept of God-as-just-another-angel, and there are also parallels between the Pullman "Authority" and the god of the Gaea Trilogy of John Varley. But surely any quibbles over the nature of any definitively revealed God would be wholly swallowed up in the excitement of the revelation? Karenjc 17:52, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

There are of course some Christians who do proselytise and evangelise and try to prove to others that what they believe in is true. As there are with other religions. But the bulk of Christians don't do this. They just believe what they believe, and the question of proof is a matter of supreme indifference to them. That's actually the point of religious faith - there's a very good reason why the word "faith" is used. If there were proof, there would be no place for faith or belief. -- JackofOz (talk) 20:51, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

This is of course a vital survival trait of any religion. If you firmly believe that your god is a creature who lives in that tree over there - then you're pretty much screwed if someone cuts the tree down and there is no sign of it. Proper religions have evolved over the centuries to carefully weed out anything that might be disprovable. Hence, maybe once god lived in heaven up above the clouds...oh - so you climbed up that mountain and looked down on the clouds? Well, by that we meant WAY above the clouds...you have planes now?....actually, well outside of the stratosphere...er, beyond orbit really...probably in a parallel plane of existance or something...WELL LOOK - YOU JUST CAN'T GET THERE WITHOUT ACTUALLY DYING - OK? When all falsifiable avenues have been carefully shut off - the only thing adherents have left is "faith" because any actual provable aspect of the belief might one day bring the entire exercise down by disproving that thing. If they were being honest - proponents would have to admit that with a god that has literally unlimited powers, you can't really trust your faith either because god might actually be some awful evil bad guy who merely twists your mind to make you think you have faith - and I don't see how that's any more or less likely than the version they believe in. SteveBaker (talk) 21:10, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

What would be the purpose of a single omnipotent being who created the universe, who turns out to be an awful evil bad guy? That would suggest he only created all his creations in order to eventually screw them, which seems the ultimate waste of time to me. That of course would only be awful, evil and bad from a human perspective, and the human perspective on the divine is fundamentally limited. I think there are 4 approaches to the divine: (1) refuse to accept it exists; (2) accept it exists and rail against it and blame all your woes on it; (3) accept it exists and attribute all wonderful and marvellous things to it and believe that the less than wonderful things happen for a higher purpose; or (4) accept it exists but also accept you will never understand it so there's little point in ascribing human characteristics to it, because it is by definition beyond mere humanity. I'm somewhere between 3 and 4. But, for the sake of argument, if god really were what we in the 21st century call "awful, evil and bad", then either those words would mean the opposite of what they mean today; or we'd call those traits by other, more positive names. -- JackofOz (talk) 02:32, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

The article you might be looking for is Protestant Reformation. At its nicest, it was a polite but adamant disagreement over how to properly worship God. At its most rancorous, groups such as the Puritans viewed the Roman Catholic church as being irredeemably corrupted by Satan (an angel, by the way). Even today, there are Protestant groups which view Catholic priests as the devil's henchmen. For their part, the Catholic church tended to view the ordeal as Lucifer corrupting suggestible minds, and luring them from the one, true path. -- 99.153.134.31 (talk) 01:59, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Song from the 60's perhaps 70's with Bach melody

Do you know what it is? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr.K. (talk • contribs) 11:45, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

There may well be several of these, but "A Lover's Concerto" is one that fits your specifications. Deor (talk) 12:47, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

That was by Mozart. not Bach. Edison (talk) 04:17, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

No, not by mortart. Minuet in G major is now usually attributed to Christian Petzold, but was thought by Bach for long.Oda Mari (talk) 05:05, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

"Joy" by Apollo 100? This was an instrumental. Clarityfiend (talk) 15:22, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I would vote for this one. They played Bach's Ode to Joy very fast and without much emotion. A critic at the time said "I hope that at least they were grinning when they recorded that, not serious like they were doing something of value." Edison (talk) 04:17, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

That should be Bach's "Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring", shouldn't it? Music to Friedrich Schiller's poem Ode to Joy has been written by several composers, most notably Ludvig van Beethoven (see Anthem of Europe), but J.S. Bach isn't on the list. Possibly because he died before Schiller was born ;-) --NorwegianBlue ^talk 08:10, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

A Whiter Shade of Pale also, feeling wise. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 16:09, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

American Tune by Paul Simon. Though it's a reworking of an earlier secular song.
Bourée by Jethro Tull (band). This was also an instrumental. Oda Mari (talk) 16:22, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

There was also the Dutch group Ekseption who played a lot of classical themes, including many from J.S. Bach, including Badinerie from the orchestral suite in b minor, Air from the suite in D major, and a several more. Then you have ex Walter now Wendy Carlos, with the legendary album Switched-On Bach. An of course, the Swingle Singers arranged many Bach works, most notably in the album "Bach's greatest hits". --NorwegianBlue ^talk 20:22, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Frederic James watercolor painting

I have one of his paintings and was attempting to research the value of it. How can I find information on pricing. Thanks for your time. Teresa —Preceding unsigned comment added by Inkansas (talk • contribs) 11:53, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

There are numerous websites that will show you the results of previous sales of James' paintings. But you must subscribe and pay for the privilege. If you only want to value one work then it would probably better to ask an art dealer/valuer. Fribbler (talk) 12:29, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Kissing

If I have sex with a woman, and dont kiss her I feel great afterwards, even if I have known her for a while and know shes a good person. It is a bit of an ego boost. However, if I do kiss any given woman that I happen to sleep with, the next day, I am in love, or have love like feeling for her, even though I dont really know her atall. What is it in kissing that transforms the act of sex into a love type feelings? Is this why aparently prostitutes do not kiss? how can one get over these feelings quickly? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 12:59, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

try this (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=affairs-of-the-lips-why-we-kiss) for a bit of info. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.221.133.226 (talk) 13:55, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Are you sure you have the cause and effect the right way round? Could it be that you only kiss women when you have strong feelings for them? --Tango (talk) 15:22, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

No, i have it right, I meet her, 2 hours later we have done the deed, if I kiss her I end up loving herif I dont, I never think about her again. why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 15:41, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

For the data to avoid a confound on you kissing her because you feel love beforehand, there would be the necessity to randomize the trials, as by tossing a coin ahead of time to determine whether to kiss. (Psych 105 lab was never like this!) Edison (talk) 04:15, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

ABS Light

What does ABS in a car mean? What does that mean when that light goes off in a car? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.137.251.14 (talk) 16:02, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

ABS means Anti-lock braking system - you should check the car manual to see what the light going on or off means. DuncanHill (talk) 16:05, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Generally - the ABS system is designed to prevent your wheels from locking up and skidding when you brake heavily. It measures the speeds at which each of the wheels are rotating and if any of them stop moving while the others are still rotating, it'll briefly let go of the brakes to get the wheel spinning again - then reapply them. Because tires grip better when they are rotating in contact with the ground than when they are skidding across it, this actually reduces your braking distance.

If you are braking that hard, you generally feel the brakes going on and off through a shaking in the brake pedal - don't worry about it - that's what it's supposed to do.

Now - as to the warning light...it depends on the kind of car you have (which is why you need to read the owner's manual). But if the light is solidly on all the time, it probably means that your ABS system has failed. The most common reason for this by far is that one or more of the wheel speed sensors have failed (or the cable that hooks them up to the computer has broken or something).

If the light is merely flickering on - perhaps only when you do actually brake hard - but perhaps also if you are pulling away hard from a dead stop or trying to corner and brake at the same time (generally not a good idea!)...then that may mean it's operating normally - and the light is just a visual confirmation of that. Again - that's why you need to read the owner's manual.

On some cars (like my MINI Cooper for example), the ABS is tied in with other similar things - traction control, brake-force distribution, dynamic stability management, cornering control and tire pressure monitoring. All of those things also use the wheel speed sensors. So, for example, the traction control measures the speeds of the wheels that the engine is driving and compares them to the speeds that the non-powered wheels are spinning. If the powered wheels are going faster than the non-powered wheels then it's likely that you are accellerating hard off the line and the tires are squealing! The system reduces the engine power a little to stop the wheels from spinning and actually gets you going faster.

So if (like my car) there are a whole bunch of similar features - then they may all be sharing the same warning light...which might explain why it's flickering if you are driving agressively.

Finally - on my car, you can turn off all of those fancy features - including ABS - and then the warning light comes on to remind you that you did that. If you can turn off the ABS on your car, then maybe you did that by accident. If so, you need to be really aware of what all the controls do because if you have to brake hard in an emergency and the ABS is turned off - it would be REALLY BAD! (Hence the warning light).

In my car, the ABS light comes on green when it's actually doing something, orange if you turned it off and red if the ABS (or one of the other features) is broken somehow.

You should definitely read the owners manual - and if it is a true fault condition - get it fixed. When virtually every other car on the road has ABS and you don't - it can be really quite dangerous because they can (and do) stop a lot faster than you can.

SteveBaker (talk) 16:40, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Tire pressure! Cool! What happens if you change tires/size? Saintrain (talk) 22:57, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Further reading suggests it's just relative speed not revs/mile. So if you lose pressure evenly in all tires it doesn't trigger? Saintrain (talk) 23:02, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Windmill blades in Texas

I drive the route from Austin to Dallas and back (180 miles each way) along interstate 35 roughly once a week - it's easily the most boring road on the planet so there is plenty of time for thinking and any notable event becomes the most exciting thing that's likely to happen to me for the next 3 hours. Hence, I've increasingly started to notice I always pass several gigantic trucks - each with a pair of those gigantic windmill blades on the back, always heading North. This is a very encouraging sign for anyone who's concern is global warming - it suggests that new windmills are going up somewhere at a phenomenal rate...my journey takes 3 hours - and I usually see at least one or two sets of blades - even when I travel on a weekend. If they ship them out all day at that kind of rate - that suggests that windmills are being erected somewhere in the USA at a rate of maybe a couple every few hours! (If they were for export - they'd presumably be headed to the docks at Houston).

My question is - are these all heading up interstate 35 because there is a factory somewhere nearby that's making them and shipping them throughout the USA to be assembled - or is it that they are being imported from someplace nearby and assembled in Texas? It seems like a HUGE number - and this campaign by T Boone Pickens hasn't really gotten into gear yet...or has it already started?

SteveBaker (talk) 18:26, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Panhandle? Check out the map in the middle of Texas Wind Energy. Saintrain (talk) 23:55, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

According to wind power in Texas, "as of 2007, 942 MW of wind power is currently under construction in Texas." — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 00:31, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

General Electric & Siemens are cited in the v.interesting Texas Wind Energy page as manufacturers at the largest Texas windfarm. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:34, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Piped labcoat?

Could anyone tell me where I could get a labcoat with black piping on it? You know, like how Occupational Therapists' tunics have green piping etc. I've looked around online to no avail. 92.0.40.132 (talk) 18:43, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Three wattage lightbulb default level

If I have a three wattage bulb (you know, the ones made for lamp that have three levels of brightness) what will it default to if I use it in a lamp/fixture that only has one brightness level, i.e., an on/off switch with no way to turn up the brightness? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.107.9.159 (talk) 04:45, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Full power. Do you even need a special bulb for a dimmable lamp? I have never seen a special bulb that has magic dimmers embedded in them. --antilived^{T | C | G} 08:02, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

I think the questioner means a three-way bulb. It has two filaments and three settings - low filament on, high filament on, and both filaments on (highest brightness). I'm not sure which would be used if placed in a normal "on/off" lamp --Bennybp (talk) 10:42, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Why are Namibia and Botswana thinly populated?

Esp. since all the countries surrounding them are normally dense. 64.81.78.179 (talk) 05:33, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Desert? Jørgen (talk) 08:25, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Compliance fund

What is a 'compliance fund'? I saw it on http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/imgad?id=COvdz4X6_NynEBDYBRhaMgjnC6FKGi1lIA (can't link to it) this ad and had no idea what it was supposed to signify. Nadando (talk) 05:45, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

What is the name of the person who writes/wrote books on successful business and has also founded his own church which is Internet based? The church was founded probably no more than ten years ago. Not sure whether the writer is English, but was certainly living in the UK last year. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Curiousja (talk • contribs) 10:51, 11 September 2008 (UTC)