User talk:Kauffner

VNese naming convention

Thanks for your good work updating Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Vietnamese) lately! I'm currently busy with work and Tet celebrations in Vietnam right now, but when I get a chance, I intend to take another look at it. Just wanted to pop in and thank you, though, for taking on the (very necessary) gruntwork. Cheers! --dragfyre_ʞןɐʇc 02:52, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

I am in Saigon now. Once I can stop myself from editing the page for a day or two, I figure the next step is to post a notice on the Wikiproject Vietnam page. After we get consensus, we can take off the headers, update the categories and present it as an official guideline. Kauffner (talk) 14:21, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

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More need to be cleanup in the Vietnamese history template

I agree with all of your edits in the template. Just like the Trieu Dynasty, many Vietnamese historians (such as Tran Trong Kim in his Việt Nam sử lược) also consider that the Later Tran Dynasty was also not part of Chinese domination.

Moreover, you've removed some minor events. I believe we should remove more than that. Since the template shows periods/eras rather than specific events, I say all the links to the articles about biographies and rebellions should also be removed. For e.g.: in the sections "3rd Chinese domination", there are links to Mai Hac De and Phung Hung, why, that's unnecessary because there are a lot more revolts during the period, if we mention one, we have to include every other similar events as well. Not to mention that the Chinese domination articles already cover all the revolts. Nevertheless, the template too doesn't include the rebellions during the French rule. So I support we remove all the rebellions and biographies.

Lastly, I also want to fix the section about the 20th century. In 1945, the Nguyen Dynasty collapsed, and Ho Chi Minh founded the Democratic Republic of Vietnam. From that point on, Vietnam had has a republican form of government. So, should we call the period from 1945 to this day as "Republic." That means, in the template, the section that follows the Nguyen Dynasty should only say "Republic." And of course, I have references to write an article about the Vietnamese history since 1945. But how will it be named, maybe as History of Vietnam since 1945 or History of the Vietnamese Republic (just like History of the Italian Republic). If you ask me, I prefer the title "History of the Vietnamese Republic."

Then, what left of the template will be this:

Hong Bang	2879-258 BC
Thuc	257-207 BC
Trieu	207-111 BC
First	111 BC-39 AD
Trung	40-43
Second	43-544
Early Ly	544-602
Third	602-905
Autonomy	905-938
Ngo	939-967
Dinh	968-980
Early Le	980-1009
Ly	1009-1225
Tran	1225-1400
Ho	1400-1407
Fourth *Later Tran	1407-1427 1407-1413
Later Le	1428-1527
Mac	1527-1592
Later Le *Trinh *Nguyen	1533-1788 1545-1787 1558-1777
Tay Son	1778-1802
Nguyen *French	1802-1945 1887-1945
Republic	from 1945

Waorca (talk) 23:42, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

The Trung sisters are big deal in Vietnamese history, so I would want to leave them in. But, in general, the template needs to be shortened and less emphasis put on pre-20th century stuff. Minor rulers like Kiều Công Tiễn need to go.

Does anyone else use the words "Republic" or "Vietnamese Republic" this way? They sound like a neologisms, and not good ones either since there is more than one plausible interpretation. In Vietnamese usage, Cộng hòa (Republic) means South Vietnam. State vs Republic was briefly a significant issue in the 1950s. It's legitimate for the template to be more detailed with respect to the 20th century, since that is where the most reader interest is. Kauffner (talk) 04:28, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

I think it's fine, neologism had occurred in Wikipedia several times. One example, in the past, we used to name the catorgy as "Wars of Vietnam", but later someone gave new idea and requested the move to "Wars involving Vietnam" and everybody agreed. And not just South Vietnam used "Republic" in its name, the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and Socialist Republic of Vietnam also use "Republic" in their names and call themselves "Republic." It might be confused at first, but later people will distingush and get use to it. I took the idea from List of countries by date of transition to republican system of government. We don't have to mention too much about the 20th century. Like other periods, the 20th century is just a small portion of the whole national history. I want make all periods to be balanced. Look at same examples such as Template:History of Austria, Template:History of India, Template:History of Singapore, I have to say they mention WAY TOO MUCH about the 20th century. While we only need to mention main periods. I definitely want to the template to be shortened and less emphasis put on post-19th century stuff. Waorca (talk) 23:38, 10 February 2011 (UTC)