Wikipedia talk:Criteria for speedy deletion

Notifying the auther

Would it not be good if when you add a speedy tag onto a page, if when you could click on where is reads ("Please consider placing the template ...... on the talk page of the author"), if it automatically added the template to the auther's talk page, rather that having to coppy and paste the template if you don't use Twinkle. Lavalamp from Mars (talk) 08:27, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

There is no way to do so automatically as far as I know and unlike for the editor of the current revision, there is no WP:MAGICWORD to create a customized link with. Regards SoWhy 09:30, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Surely it can be done by a bot? DGG ( talk ) 00:46, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

I think we have had a bot doing this, but there is a problem doing this with speedy deletion tags as the bot looked for articles with a speedy tag, and if they got deleted first then their authors didn't get notified. If the bot had an admin flag it could also look at deleted contributions which makes it technically possible but more complex. Also I like the idea of the tagger taking responsibility for their tags by communicating with the author. ϢereSpielChequers 00:59, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

I like the idea of the tagger taking responsibility also, and therefore we need to deal with the taggers who do not take responsibility. One non-punitive way is to prevent them from making the error. Another is to make the notification required, so that people who failed to notify could be given an adequate warning proportional to the damage they might be doing. DGG ( talk ) 23:52, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Twinkle and other scripts do this automatically, and use should be encouraged. As with everything else, making the notification hard-mandatory is probably not a good idea. Stifle (talk) 16:37, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

In what circumstances is notifying the author(s) not a good idea? If the author is banned then I can see it as probably pointless, but still hardly harmful. Thryduulf (talk) 18:22, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

IMO, notifying the author isn't as important with an established article. EG I have articles I wrote 4 years ago that if they were deleted, I wouldn't care. I'm no longer invested in those subjects. What I would like to see, is a bot that notified wikiprojects if an article they've tagged is nomed for CSD/AFD/PROD/etc. If a wikiproject has declared that they are going to try to uphold certain standards on an article, then they should be notified so that they can either say "get rid of this" or "let us try to salvage it." While I might not care about the articles that I wrote 4 years ago, there are others who do. Notifying authors of CSD's within the first 24 hours of the article being written should be mandatory.---Balloonman ^{NO! I'm Spartacus!} 18:53, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Notification of the author raises an important philosophical point about wikis. In the pure sense, none of us own any article in the project. If no one owns the page, then how can there be a single "author" who should be notified? Granted, for very new pages there may only be one contributor but 1) every reader who sees the page and makes a positive decision not to change it has just as much responsibility for the page as the person who did hit the edit button (how are you going to even find them, much less notify them) and 2) if you acknowledge an "ownership" right even for the extremely simple case, you create a precedent of ownership for pages with more complex history. That is a slope that we do not want to slide down.
In my opinion, the current consensus - voluntary notification of authors of new pages with very simple history - is tolerated because the goal is educational. It's a courtesy that we may offer to good-faith editors so they can see what they did wrong and become better contributors in the future. If we switch the standard to an absolute policy requirement, it will tip the balance too far, implying ownership rights that the project has no intention of allowing. Rossami (talk) 19:31, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Remove db-histmerge from CSD

Of all the {{db-g6}} derivative templates, {{db-histmerge}} stands out for not representing a deletion that a regular user requests of an admin so they can perform the remaining maintenance work themselves (e.g. moving a page). Instead, the whole history merge process needs to be performed by an administrator, which makes this a maintenance template more akin to {{merge}} rather than a speedy deletion template. There was a proposed refactoring of that template which received some support but never got implemented. I'm looking into doing this and moving Category:Candidates for history merging from Category:Speedy deletion to Category:Wikipedia requests related to admins. Are there any objections? --Waldir ^talk 15:59, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

After ten days without any objections, I completed this. I must add that the template redesign had in fact been made at the time, but the rest of the process (rename to histmerge, change category) was left pending. Note also that this had been agreed in the template talk page and on this talk page, see archive. --Waldir ^talk 23:33, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Remove Db-copypaste from CSD

The same logic can be applied to {{Db-copypaste}}. The only difference in the situations is that {{db-histmerge}} is used if there have been subsequent edits made since the c&p move, whereas {{Db-copypaste}} is used if the last edit to the page was the actual c&p move. Both situations would not require a {{hangon}} or other "speedy" actions as they are both housecleaning. As an IP, I cannot carry out the page move. --64.85.215.156 (talk) 15:22, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

copyvio

I happened to see the Spanish Wikipedia criterion for db-copyvio, which reads::

"Violaciones de derechos de autor. Si existe la posibilidad de que el usuario que subió el texto sea el dueño de los derechos de autor, se colocará {{opyvio}} y se dará un mes para probar la autoría antes de borrar. Si procede de páginas en las que sea un evidente caso de plagio (de la Encarta por ejemplo), se colocará {{plagio}} y se borrará inmediatamente."
(Violations of copyright. If there is a possibility that the user who uploaded the text is the owner of copyright, place copyvio } and there will be allowed one month to prove the authorship before deleting. If a page is a clear case of plagiarism (from Encarta for example), place db-copyvio and it will be deleted immediately.)

I think this is a clearer and fairer wording than ours, and will prevent the deletion of pages about an organization that were added in good faith (of course, there is still the problem of G-11, promotionalism. DGG ( talk ) 00:40, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

I don't like the language, "if there is a possibility ...". There is a "possibility" that they are any one of 6.9 billion or so people topside of this Earth. Unless they actually claim to be the copyright holder, I don't think we should leave the article there just in case. I really don't see a real problem with delete first, ask questions later. In sports-related articles, I frequently see users that copy someone's official bio from the school or team website into the person's article. I don't think waiting a month before deleting it is a very useful endeavor. --B (talk) 01:09, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

We already do this, if permission is plausible it should be blanked and listed at Wikipedia:Copyright problems to await OTRS confirmation (if not, the content is deleted in 7 days). MER-C 03:24, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Since that is what we do, perhaps we should change the language here accordingly. I agree that "possible" is too weak, and "plausible" is better. DGG ( talk ) 18:12, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

There's already wording to that effect: "For equivocal cases (such as where there is a dubious assertion of permission, or where free-content edits overlie the infringement), please consult Wikipedia:Copyright violations." Stifle (talk) 16:35, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Clarify A1

What's the threshold for the insufficient context criteria A1? Does it mean that the editor who tags or deletes it couldn't identify the subject from the article "as is" — or does it mean they still aren't able to, given, say, five minutes and a search engine? Feezo (Talk) 09:27, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

I'd say that it means there is not enough context for the tagger and deleter to be able to identify the subject, such that they are not able be certain that any sources they might find relate to the subject. For example, if the entire article is, "Michael is the most successful businessman in my town.", it just isn't going to be possible to find sources that are definitely about this Michael as we don't have enough to go on.

If there was more context, "Michael is the most successful businessman in my town. He won an award last week from the Queen." then this is borderline - it might or might not be possible, but I'd move it to userspace explaining why and that we need more context (and reliable sources) before we can be sure whether they should be included or not.

"Michael is the most successful businessman in my town." with an external link to a local newspaper article about his receiving an award, would almost certainly give sufficient context (full name, location, which award, etc).

In summary, if the article gives us enough information that we can be certain that any search engine results we might find are about the same subject, then it is not speediable under A1 in my view. Thryduulf (talk) 09:56, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

I think Thryduulf pretty much nailed it, and I'd also say that A1 articles aren't always short. At least twice I've tagged 7 paragraph articles for A1, and they were deleted. It's not necessarily about length- in those two cases no one could tell whether the thing in question was a book, a movie, a game, or what the hell it was, and searches turned up nothing meeting the description. Don't judge it based on length, judge it on whether you can tell what it is. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 14:54, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Here is another example. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 17:48, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Actually that's a very bad example. The title plus a Google search on that title makes it clear that this was a "translation" into standard English of the lyrics of a Snoop Dogg song "Editing Ain't No Fun (If The Homies Can't Have None)". I didn't have time to check whether this was original research or could be converted into a standard encyclopaedia article about the song. It was not speediable under any criterion. Thryduulf (talk) 18:17, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

The "plot summaries" have been brought up before at ANI - I believe they are generally removed from the article or deleted as original research. Jezebel'sPonyo^{bons mots} 18:25, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

That maybe so, but original research has been explicitly rejected as a reason to speedily delete something on more than one occasion. Thryduulf (talk) 18:31, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Clarification: in my edit summary I noted they were eligible for PROD or AfD as original research, I should have clarified in my note above as well. --Jezebel'sPonyo^{bons mots} 19:11, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, someone agreed with me. Besides, it was probably a copyvio of something anyways; don't tell me that wasn't copied from somewhere. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 19:03, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Whether someone agreed with you or not, it was still a bad speedy deletion, particularly given the discussion in this thread - all I did to find the context was put the title of the article into google and look at the first hit. AfD or Prod was the correct course of action if you didn't think it belonged in the encyclopaedia (and I honestly cannot fault you for thinking that), but these processes are not speedy deletion and give time for other users to look them over and see whether they can be improved or not (as is required by policy for all deletions that do not have explicit consensus otherwise - i.e. matching the deliberately narrow CSD criteria). As for being a copyright violation, if it is one it is not copied from an online source that Google knows about. Assumption of good faith is not optional, and speedily deleting something as a copyright violation without at least proof beyond reasonable doubt hardly counts as a good faith action. Thryduulf (talk) 01:25, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

I'd agree with you in any other context, but I don't screw around with copyvios; if I could do that one over again, I'd have put a copypaste template on it. Noted for moving forward. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 19:12, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

If you suspect a copyright infringement, but cannot find proof of it then the correct course of action is that detailed at Wikipedia:Copyright problems, not speedy deletion. Remember WP:CSD#G12 is only for unambiguous copyright infringement. If there is no obvious source it is not unambiguous. 22:00, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Note that I said a copypaste tag, not a G12 tag. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 18:43, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Clarification of A9

The description of the template for A9 states that it applies to cases where the article "does not indicate why its subject is important or significant and where the artist's article does not exist (both conditions must be true)." But on the other hand the warning on the user's talk page says that A9 applies "where the artist's article has never existed, has been deleted or is eligible for deletion itself". That makes a lot of sense - there are plenty of cases where someone creates an article about a non-notable musician (often themselves) and then goes on to create articles on their equally non-notable works. Under a strict interpretation of the current template, deleting this should be a two stage process. andy (talk) 14:57, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

That userwarning needs changing. What is eligible for deletion even supposed to mean in this context? Nominated for speedy? What if the speedy is declined? Yoenit (talk) 15:25, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

• Good point. I suppose it means "is also non-notable" - in other words, an editor has asserted that the musician is "eligible" for speedying and therefore their music is too. So if the musician goes the music goes and if not, not. andy (talk) 15:31, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
  • I think that's a case of the templates failing to catch up with a change to the criteria. A9 did at one point have the wording in the user talk warning. Stifle (talk) 16:33, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Question about A7

What exactly is meant by No indication of importance? That is to say, what counts as a claim of significance or importance? Significance is usually assessed on Wikipedia by coverage in reliable, secondary sources, and of course if there is just that about the subject in the article, then that in itself is an indication of importance. So what I am asking, is what other indications of importance are being referred to here? It seems quite unclear. If anything I think there should be a footnote explaining what is meant by a claim of significance or importance. Is this simply a reference to the all information at all of the different subsections of WP:N like the information at WP:NMUSIC, WP:ATHLETE etc? Are there any general guidelines for what a claim of significance or importance is? An example would be the article Robert Mayer (political scientist) where the article was declined for CSD by an admin on the grounds that Assertions of significance include being a proffessor and being a published author (See User talk:TYelliot). However, this does not seem to fit with the criteria at WP:PROFESSOR, so I assume that a credible claim of significance is not merely these particular criteria, but includes other statements as well. But which other statements? Jay _{Σεβαστός}^discuss 18:08, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Mostly administratorial judgement. A7 is meant to get rid garage bands and unpublished poets no-one but their next-door neighbour has ever heard of. The rest, e.g. borderline notable academics, should go to AFD. Notability is much to tricky to be judged by a single person. —Ruud 20:48, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Basically if the article gives a credible claim that the subject might be important then it is not speedily deletable. It is explicitly possible to claim importance for a subject that is not notable. Thryduulf (talk) 21:55, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes, although if it's a completely implausible claim (a claim of a 13 year old being "the next President of the United States" or something ridiculous like that) that doesn't count. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 18:36, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

In this specific case there are two assertions of importance, being a professor and being a published author. Neither guarantees that the article would survive AFD as not all professors and published authors are notable. If you make a good faith attempt to source it and come up empty handed then you could prod it or if appropriate tag it as a hoax, but if it is unclear whether reliable sources can be found for an article it is best taken to AFD. ϢereSpielChequers 17:17, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Although in no way policy or guideline, I compiled a list of common indications of importance at WP:A7M, i.e. cases in which most admins will decline an A7 tagging as far as I was able to determine. Maybe that helps. Regards SoWhy 07:12, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

We've had several discussions on this page about Profs, and the overwhelming (as I recall) consensus is that Prof are an indication of notability. It's critical to remember with A7 particularly, that it is intentionally a lower threshold than the general notability guidelines and specific ones. GedUK  08:04, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

G10 - attack pages

We just had a case of an apparent stalker/harasser. No overt threats, but within scope for WP:HARASS and probably intimidating. I was surprised that G10 doesn't cover this - "attack" and "threat" imply actual personal attacks and direct threats only, not harassment. I'd like to fix this to make it unambiguous so that IAR isn't needed in future cases:

G10. Pages that disparage, threaten, intimidate or harass their subject or some other entity, and serve no other purpose.

FT2 ^{(Talk | email)} 16:53, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

No objections from me for treating such as G10, I'm not sure whether we need a change of policy for this as I'm inclined to treat stalking as an attack. Haven't looked at the case in hand though. ϢereSpielChequers 17:01, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Seems like a good addition to me. --KFP (contact | edits) 17:04, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

No objection from me. Thryduulf (talk) 20:33, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Seems like a reasonable addition to me; I'm not sure why we didn't add this in after the BravoRio fiasco almost a year ago (not quite the same thing, but it's obvious where I'm going with that), but now is as good as any time. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 03:34, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Agree with adding it, no downside that I can see. Feezo (Talk) 03:50, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

The downside is scope-creep - the gradual interpretation of the clause to mean more than was originally intended. "Threaten" is a fairly objective word with a bright-line definition. "Harass" is more subjective and more easily abused. Use of the clause will have to be carefully watched and inappropriate use promptly undone. That's no different than some of the other speedy-criteria, though. Rossami (talk) 03:55, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

A page created to intimidate or harass is by definition vandalism and can already be deleted for that reason. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:21, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

The same logic would dictate that the entire G10 can be removed because pages created to attack or threaten are by definition vandalism. We don't rely on all attack pages being covered by G3 as vandalism. FT2 ^{(Talk | email)} 10:04, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Beeblebrox. Although "attack" and "harass" seem to be similar, there is a difference between something that is obviously an attack and something that might harass someone. G3 can handle pages created for the latter purposes already anyway, so there is no need to mix it into G10. Regards SoWhy 07:08, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

I support this, because of an incident that came to ArbCom's attention, which prompted me to note the paucity of description at WP:Attack page. I'd further support clarification on that page that harassment of an editor is essentially an attack. Jclemens (talk) 08:21, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Proposal to replace CSD A7 and A9

There is a discussion underway at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Proposal to convert CSD A7 and A9 to a PROD about a proposal to eliminate the A7 and A9 speedy deletion criteria (both of which relate to "no indication of importance") and replace them with a new form of proposed deletion. Editors interested in this talk page may want to participate in that discussion. --RL0919 (talk) 14:18, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Quarterly policy update

Any suggestions on how to put together a more concise version of this quarter's policy update for next week's Signpost? - Dank (push to talk) 19:20, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Change G2 deletion template

Hi, I would like to propose changing the image in {{Db-test-notice}} from the red exclamation point to the blue i like the one on {{Uw-csd-a10}}. My reason is that both are supposed to assume good faith, as the message shows: "Thank you for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test worked, and the page that you created has been or soon will be deleted. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia." Additionally, most users are likely to equate an exclamation point with a "you broke something", whereas a blue i would tend to be equated with information. Furthermore, I have only once seen a user create more than one test page. Reaper Eternal (talk) 20:59, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

This makes sense. Given it is already used for A10 and the usernotice clearly assumes good faith, I see no objections to using a less BITEY image. Yoenit (talk) 22:35, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Agreed, I've gone ahead and changed it. Feezo (send a signal | watch the sky) 06:47, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! Reaper Eternal (talk) 14:59, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Trouble tagging redirects

Disregard

 – working now – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 22:25, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I've posted this elsewhere, but I really don't know the correct place to mention this. Sometimes I can tag redirects for deletion, sometimes it doesn't work. I'm pretty sure the people who need to know are aware of it, but I simply wanted to add that it's still happening, that's all. E.g., [1]. Thanks! – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 22:10, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Request for Admins who focus on CSD

We have a backlog at editor review, a worrying level of incorrect speedy deletion tags and a perennial problem with newpage patrollers who don't discover their error rate in CSD tagging until they file a request for adminship. I think we might be able to reduce all three of those problems by getting more eyes at editor review so that newpage patrollers can improve their tagging at an earlier stage in their career, and discuss things in a more measured less confrontational way than at RFA. I've created a page for admins to volunteer to review deleted edits so that newpage patrollers can more easily solicit reviews from admins. Feedback and volunteers would be appreciated. ϢereSpielChequers 19:09, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Speedy deletion plus do not remove tag

I edited an article that has a speedy deletion notice on it. The sign says that if the article does not meet the criteria for speedy deletion or if you intent to fix it then "please remove this notice." I removed the notice, and someone keeps putting it back, interfering with my editing the article.

If the sign doesn't mean "please remove this notice" if you intend to fix the article, it shouldn't say that. --ConcealMyIPAddress (talk) 18:39, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

I challenged the CSD on that article before seeing your message here, I agree it does not meet the criteria. Any editor other then the creator of an article may challenge a CSD by removing it, so either the tagger did not understand the CSD process, or they concluded you were actually the author. While I admit it looks a bit suspicious, WP:AGF requires that assume you are not the creator, and so respect your removal, not withstanding the fact that I also agree with it. Monty₈₄₅ 18:58, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Thank you. I don't think I'll edit the article any more. I tried to add the references nicely formatted like other articles, but he put back the requesting speedy deletion sign, while I was editing. The sign says on it that if you are not the article writer you can remove the sign, but then he added the sign back and a comment not to remove the speedy deletion sign, while I was again trying to format the references. Forget it. --ConcealMyIPAddress (talk) 19:05, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

I can find no fault in your actions. Tagger screwed up and violated "Do not bite the newcomers". Yoenit (talk) 19:13, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Proposal to consolidate and reorganise criteria

Please see my proposal and comment. Thanks! AD 15:33, 10 April 2011 (UTC)