Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television/Survivor task force

Citations and Sourcing

Over the years, we have floated various rules and guidelines regarding citation of events, facts and notability, and now that we have this Task Force in place I think it is time to establish a clear set of "ok" and "not ok" sources to use in articles. In particular, this would look at websites such as the infamous Survivor Sucks site, which admittedly is a spoiler site, but does churn out some interesting discussion at times. Some of this discussion has managed to find its way onto Wikipedia (see Talk:Jonathan Penner), and is being cited by anonymous and registered users alike as gospel truth (pun intended, if you read the talk page in question). Having this Manual of Style would allow us to straight off the mark say that, "no, we cannot have this per WP:MOS/Survivor..." instead of endlessly debating the notability of supposed events. -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 09:44, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

I wholeheartedly agree. Personally, I think that Survivor Sucks is a "Gray area," but I am tempted to say no. just my opinion! ♥Shapiros10WuzHere♥ 16:52, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Comment on the Records and Firsts list

I know how clogging the sections are. Palau's takes a big deal of room! If we could make them less clogging or get rid of them, we'd have better articles. I might take the lists on. I've gotta see how clogging they are.MySurvivorPartay (talk) 01:16, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

In my opinion, the kind of stuff we don't need there is information already included in the article (e.g. Africa having the first tribe shuffle), crufty information of no notability (e.g. Africa showed the temperature in one challenge) and stuff about contestants (e.g. Ethan Zohn is dating Jenna Morasca). The already included information is (duh) already there, but the non-notable stuff can be removed entirely and the stuff about contestants shifted to their individual pages. If they are not notable enough to have a page, then surely the information is also not notable. I have already started on Africa, and will get through the rest in a few days (hopefully!) -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 03:50, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

0

I'll take on Palau, Exile and Fiji. (Palau's Records and Firsts section is really large.) That'll save you some work. And I'd love to help out.MySurvivorPartay (talk) 15:15, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

I can help in a couple of the things in Cook Islands... I guess I could tackle that one; I'll put my name there.Stjimmy61892 22:25, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Checklist

This one's good!  Done Shapiros10 Came Back! 11:24, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

• Borneo  Done ♥Shapiros10WuzHere♥
• Australia  Done Shapiros10 Came Back! 19:17, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
• Africa  Done -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 08:22, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
• Marquesas  Done -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 08:22, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
• Thailand ????? There are none! Shapiros10 Came Back! 19:17, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
• Amazon  Done -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 08:22, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
• Pearl Islands  Done -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 06:37, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
• All-Stars Good Job DLT! Shapiros10 Came Back! 11:23, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
• Vanuatu (none as of 08:22, 21 April 2008 (UTC))
• Palau MSP and DLT did a good enough job. I think that "Ulong and Koror" is notable enough to stay in. Shapiros10 Came Back! 11:23, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
• Guatemala  Done -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 08:22, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
• Panama/Exile Island-- If Gogo Dodo Or Dark Lord could check and see what they think.  Done MySurvivorPartay (talk) 19:37, 29 April 2008 (UTC) (removed the last of it; already in article - TDLT)
• Cook Islands  Done -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 08:40, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
• Fiji  Done -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 07:58, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
• China  Done -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 08:22, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
• Micronesia (none as of 08:22, 21 April 2008 (UTC))

Excuse me?

Did I get kicked out of this Task Force?Stjimmy61892 15:39, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, that was my mistake. I was removing the blocked editor User:Shapiros10, and must have accidentally removed your name as well. No harm intended. -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 07:58, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

We wouldn't intentionally do that! Never. I certainly love the project and love how much everyone can participate. MySurvivorPartay (talk) 19:40, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Alright well thank you. I thought I was getting removed due to the fact that I was getting accused of being a sock to Shapiros10, and therefore as he was deleted, I was not deleted, but at least also removed from the task force. Thanks, guys, I'm gonna try to see what I can do next about the "records and firsts" (and thanks for finishing my *almost* finished Cook Islands job, Dark Lord Trombonator! I couldn't figure out what to do with them: should I keep them or are they useless information?) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stjimmy61892 (talk • contribs) 18:43, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Conversion of episode summaries etc.

Partway through China, Masem and Gogo Dodo (among others) worked on a new format for episode summaries that has been implemented for that season and Micronesia. I think we should look at converting the other seasons' pages into this format as well so we can have some consistency; what do you guys think? (EDIT) also perhaps go on CBS websites and put episode summaries in for the first (I think) eleven seasons, which don't have them.-- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 08:37, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Up for deletion

Two contestant templates are up for deletion. If you feel so inclined, add your comments to the discussions here and the one below it. -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 07:14, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Sole Survivor Title

Isn't Sole Survivor a title, thus it must be capitalized. Who agrees? From Tagi to Bottom, MySurvivorPartay (Wobbuffet!. Dats right) 00:18, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Let's wait for a couple more people to pass comment before changing it for every article. Shapiros10 WuzHere  01:03, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Agree - Late to the party, but I concur. -- BullWikiWinkle 18:40, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Challenge descriptions in episode summaries

Should the standard be for the challenge descriptions to go before the description of events in the episode summaries or after? China has them at the end of each episode summary while Micronesia and Gabon have them at the beginning.

My preference is the end. The challenges just don't seem to be as important as the overall events. -- BullWikiWinkle 00:12, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

The consensus formed on the Micronesia talk page was before, as it gives the reader the knowledge of what happened in the challenge when they read the summary. The discussion was here. I meant to move the China descriptions last week, but it got away from me. -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 00:59, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

It should be before as well, given that, while 99% of the time events in the challenge don't affect the summary, there are a few cases where a specific event in the challenge will affect the strategy discussion --MASEM 01:58, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

trombonator - Thanks for pointing out the previous discussion. I must've missed it. Since there was a consensus reached there, I have changed the China article. -- BullWikiWinkle 02:07, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Reward descriptions

OK... Having settled the placement of challenge descriptions, I now notice that the descriptions of rewards aren't very unified. Some start with 'The winning tribe [gets|wins|will win|etc.]', whereas some just give a list of items or a simple description of the reward.

I think it's overkill to write a full sentence for each one. How about standardizing on just a simple list of items or description (for trips and such)? -- BullWikiWinkle 02:16, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 02:22, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and done this for China, Micronesia, and Gabon. -- BullWikiWinkle 18:52, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Template for talk pages

100px	This page is within the scope of the Survivor Task Force, a small faction of Wikipedia that attempts to build high-quality articles relating to Survivor (TV series). If you would like to participate, you can choose to edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the task force and see a list of open tasks.
Unknown This article has not been rated on the quality assessment scale. Unknown This article has not been rated on the importance assessment scale.

I'm not sure how many of you actually check this page.... but I'll post anyway. I'm in the process of creating a template to go on the top of talk pages, similar to Template:WPHP (despite me being a complete n00b when it comes to templating. It's in a subpage of mine, User:The dark lord trombonator/WPST; feel free to check it out and give feedback. I'd post an example of what it looks like, but somehow all text after it gets stuck inside the box, so check it out at the talk page of the sub above. All help is welcome, thanks! -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 06:56, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

I found the problem(s) and (hope you don't mind) took the liberty of modifying the template in your subpage (there was an extra colon in the image code and the wikicode for closing the table was missing at the end). I also posted a sample at the top of this topic.

I'd just recommend that the final template be called WPSTF. -- BullWikiWinkle 21:38, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure I like the use of the word "faction". Possibly too divisive of a word. I suggest "a group of Wikipedia editors" instead. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 01:32, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, guys. BWW - the colon was added bt BJBot because the image is non-free. I wasn't aware of this restriction, so if there are any free-content pictures out there they'd be helpful. ("100px" doesn't really suit our "group of Wikipedia editors"; which is a better word, thanks Gogo). How do we go about making quality/importance assessment criteria? -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 23:55, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

AfD

Twila Tanner AfD currently running. Nom says delete per WP:1E and I would tend to agree. If you feel differently, make your voice heard. -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 01:28, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Article layout discussion

There is a discussion on the Borneo talk page where some changes to the current layout of Survivor articles are being proposed. If you have an opinion, you may want to weigh in. -- BullWikiWinkle 00:17, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

New format of Survivor seasons

So I'm planning on further expanding as many Survivor seasons as I can. I started with Survivor: Borneo. It is currently up for peer review, and as I was waiting to move it, three editors approached me about being bold and just moving it. All three and myself believe it is much much nicer, and cleaner. My next project will be Survivor: All Stars, once Borneo is done (probably). Look for Boreno to be at FAC in a week or two.

Also, I'd like to re-design this project. What about making this it's own project for starts, instead of a "Task Force"? Thoughts? iMatthew 18:14, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Nice work on Borneo. The article was in such a sorry state that your rewrite was much needed. I have to admit that I'm a bit hesitant on changing to the new format for later seasons that are much more expansive like the current season. A lot of work has gone into writing all of the summaries and occasionally some of us are still reverting anonymous IPs who are using the old format.

I don't have any opinion on if this project is a task force or a separate project. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 20:21, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

I think we should have a consistent format for all seasons. My preference is for the individual episode summaries like the current season, but I'll go with whatever consensus is reached. The main thing missing from the revamped Borneo page are the challenge descriptions. Perhaps this is a good thing. Perhaps they do not meet the notability standards. Two questions come to mind then:

1. Should we have a standard format across all seasons?
2. If so which one should it be?

-- BullWikiWinkle 06:35, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Possibly, we should wait until Borneo's FAC is over - and if it passes like so, we keep this format, but if a suggested change is brought up, then we talk about changing it. iMatthew 12:11, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

I think seeing how the Borneo FAC goes is a good idea. It's a lot of work converting everything over and I wouldn't want to see it all done if the FAC alters the format or fails. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 22:04, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Tribe Colors

I have a bunch of problems about tribe colors in the season articles; as in, a lot of them are very inaccurate and not even close. Should I do anything about that, other than bring it up (for a third time in Borneo I might add) in the Talk sections?Stjimmy61892 (talk) 19:32, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

I completely agree on the tribe color for Rattana on Borneo. I went ahead and changed all three tribe colors for that season to match the archived CBS site.

What other tribe colors do you think should be changed? -- BullWikiWinkle 20:55, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

For starters, I think Kucha's a little bright in Outback, as is Samburu in Africa and Malakal and Dabu in Micronesia. I always thought that Chuay Gahn was more of a red than an orange in Thailand, but there have been sources that would work for both. I think Viveros is a TAD dark in Exile Island. I was pretty sure that Nobag wasn't QUITE a straight-up blue, but I could be wrong. And for me that's it.Stjimmy61892 (talk) 16:28, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Color edit wars

The color edit wars are becoming tiresome. One possible way to at least contain the warring would be to create a tribe color template, which specifies the background and text color when fed a particular tribe name. If there is any interest, I can make something up. It would basically be a big switch statement which returns a style statement for the particular tribe name. Thanks! Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 23:06, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

I agree, the edit wars are becoming tiresome, and there seems to be no discussion regarding the changes. Hope you don't mind, but I've created a possible tribe colour template here. The colours used on that template are the colours that were used before all the edit warring, and none of the recent undiscussed colours. Feel free to improve the template. If this template does end up being used, I would suggest semi-protecting it to prevent newer users from changing the colours without discussion, and putting a little hidden note that tells users to discuss any colour changes. --Meäghân _{i can see your halo} 19:07, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Looks good. I made a few minor changes. We could allow for spaces in the tribe name by adding second switch target. Also, we could have it display the tribe name as well, unless this would be too confusing? Or that could be a different template that calls this one, for example one for tribe color boxes, using a <span>...</span> tag. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 03:24, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

I've made it possible to include spaces in certain tribe times. I actually tried adding the tribe names to the template; my plan was to have it display the tribe name by default and having a perimetre that would allow the tribe name to be changed to something else. It messed up the whole thing. I'll try doing it by having a "tribe name" template. The "tribe name" template would be used to colour a box and include the tribe name, the other one would be used to colour any box. Cheers, --Meäghân _{i can see your halo} 22:07, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

(see User:Meaghan/Tribename). --Meäghân _{i can see your halo} 02:46, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Great. I merged some of the duplication. Now that I look at it, how about if we have a single backend template that returns just the style statement. For example, what you have in User:Meaghan/Survivorcolors, but without the trailing pipe. Then, have frontend templates that call this to produce either (a) a table entry or (b) a "colorbox" for the infobox, by placing the style statement inside of a <span>...</span>. The idea is to reduce the specification of the colors to a single template, to avoid redundancy and possible inconsistency. Thanks! Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 18:43, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Thank you! How would you have it so it can be used for a table entry and a colorbox? --Meäghân _{i can see your halo} 03:51, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

I moved it to {{stribe}}, but I am somewhat indifferent to the actual name. I figured this was short. I am also somewhat indifferent to the name of {{stribe/color}} and {{stribe/name}}. This one could be longer since it will most likely won't be used directly. The color template can be used to make a color box as well (see the source code for {{colorbox}}). Any preference for the name for this? It could also be a bit longer since it won't be used too repetitively. One obvious suggestion would be {{survivor colorbox}}? Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 05:41, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I think the shorter names would be better. If the templates do end up getting moved to a longer title, then the shorter name could be used as a shortcut. For the colorbox, I don't see a problem with it being longer; it's only used 2-5 times on a single Survivor season page. I'll start changing the format on the Survivor season pages tonight. Cheers, -- Meäghân  talk  21:55, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

New voting history format

There is currently a discussion at Talk:Survivor: Samoa#Voting history regarding a new voting history format. Cheers, -- Meäghân  talk  21:58, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

BLP

Questions about sourcing and content of episode summaries have been posed here, which was started after this post. Thanks! Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 21:22, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Survivorwinners template

So, we now have {{Survivorwinners}} and {{Survivor contestants}} and succession boxes? This seems like a bit much, so I have nominated Survivor winners for deletion here. Thanks! Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 22:53, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Proposed standardized width for tribe columns in "Contestants" tables

A while ago, standardized widths became the standard for the "The game" table. I don't see why we shouldn't implement them into the "Contestants" table for the tribe columns. On some seasons, especially Gabon, the tribe columns' widths aren't even. I've created a new version of the Gabon table using the proposed standardized width (85px) here. Thoughts? --Meaghan ^:) ≈ 14:43, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Updates to TV#MOS

I'm not sure how many people monitor WP:MOSTV or even WP:TV (the basic WikiProject for all of us), but we've been trying to get some feedback on additions to the TV Manual of Style. It largely has to do with the inclusion of "Overview" tables at the start of the page, the order in which season lists are presented (currently, there is no concrete order), and what is considered too much info for DVDs (i.e. should we be placing every detail about the box set in the article, from each interview to the aspect ratio, or should be keep it more generalized). Please see discussion at WT:MOSTV#Updates to the MOS. Thank you.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 22:10, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Contestant Progress?

Whoever created it... I have no idea. I have seen no mention of proposals for it, it's totally unnecessary IMO, and no one has gotten rid of it yet. I'm going to get rid of them because it's on the first three seasons. If you disagree just revert the edit. Stjimmy61892 (talk) 18:33, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

It took me a moment to figure out what you meant. See various IP edits on Survivor: The Australian Outback, Survivor: Borneo, and Survivor: Africa.

I agree with the removal of these sections. It is a lot of original research. It doesn't help the understanding of the game and is difficult to understand. I've seen these kinds of tables before on some other reality TV show, but I can't remember which one it was. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 19:01, 7 June 2011 (UTC)