Wikipedia:MediaWiki messages/Archive 4

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Summary of Archives

Numbered items correspond to Sections in the relevant Archive page.

• /Archive 1
  1. Bug reports changed to Contact us and meta:MediaWiki feature requests and bug reports created (read more)
  2. ~~~~ signatures cannot be added to messages. They must be put in manually (read more)
  3. {{subst:test}} should be used when a user makes an edit while testing the wikipedia, it should be posted on a user's or anon's talk page, not on the article itself (read more)
  4. More MediaWiki custom messages can be added without slowing down the server (read more)
  5. Page protection message and link discussion: (read more)
  6. No consensus reached on whether MediaWiki messages should be protected: (read more)
  7. Discussion links were prefixed with a < symbol to improve readability: (read more)
  8. From the SUBST vs MSG discussions the consensus seems to be to use msg in most cases: (read more)

• /Archive 2
  1. Self link issue not resolved: (read more)
  2. Discussions about focussing discussion on this page: (read more)
  3. Protecting this page -- consensus is no: (read more)
  4. MSGs will not mess up pages that use wikipedia articles: (read more)
  5. Med and legal messages no longer needed because of the disclaimer link at the top : (read more)
  6. Where does MediaWiki:Disabled go: (read more)

• Issues relating to MediaWiki software implementation have been moved to m:Message substitution. This page should be for editorial decisions relating to the use of the software.
• Custom CompactTOC discussion moved to MediaWiki talk:CompactTOC.
• Macro, argument functionality moved to m:Message substitution.
• Disam: talk moved to MediaWiki talk:disam
• From MediaWiki talk:Opentask Reverted, messages moved back to MediaWiki talk:Opentask
• From MediaWiki talk:Loginprompt Reverting, messages moved back to MediaWiki talk:Loginprompt
• From MediaWiki talk:Unprotectthispage Reverting, messages moved back to MediaWiki talk:Unprotectthispage
• "What links here" solution discussion moved to Moved to m:Message substitution

• /Archive 3
  1. Everything from before the 1.3 switch

---

Changing some link names

What does everybody think of changing:

• "my talk" to "talk" (a bit iffy)
• "my watchlist" to "watchlist"
• "my contributions" to "contributions" (a bit iffy as well)

in the bar at the top (in MonoBook) as they seem redundant to me and they are taking too much space (plus I hate this MS trend). Dori | Talk 19:09, Jun 9, 2004 (UTC)

• Support "my watchlist" -> "watchlist". Changing "wy watchlist" to "watchlist" is a good idea IMO, as it's similar to "preferences": you only ever deal with your own. On the other hand, "my contributions" is useful in distinction to "user contributions", and "my talk" probably helps distinguish article "discussions" for new users; your "iffys" suggest you've had similar thoughts... — Matt 22:13, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)
• I support the watchlist one. The other two, as you said, are a bit iffy. So it'd be best to leave them as is. blankfaze | ?? 23:21, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)
• Change 'em all. And not just in Monobook: My Watchlist and My Contribs appear in Standard, too. Death to cutesy-poo interfacing! My opinion, –Hajor 23:45, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)
• Just "watchlist". It may just be my own cynicism, but I imagine that the "My" helps some users distinguish between their own User talk: and that page's Talk:, and between their own contributions page and those of others. - jredmond 02:16, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)
• Leave well alone. They shouldn't overlap anything else AFAICT: they sit above the page tabs. How narrow is your screen? --Phil | Talk 08:34, Jun 10, 2004 (UTC)
• Lose the "my" from them all. They appear in a row after your username. The fact that the row starts with my username makes it obvious that all those functions relate to my things, so I'd have thought it would be perfectly obvious without "my this" and "my that" Tjwood 13:32, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)
• The "my" sucks. Sucks hard. End of story. What are we trying to be? An encyclopedia? Or a cutse-pie kiddy-club? Tannin 15:54, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)

From what I gather, most people wouldn't have a problem with changing "my watchlist". Yes, for the other two, there is a concern that some people may confuse it with other page's talk, and other people's contributions. However, as has been pointed out, these are on a place all by themselves. Perhaps we can convince Gwicke to put some character in there to reinforce this (something like User: or User --- ), would this be enough to alleviate those concerns? Dori | Talk 16:51, Jun 10, 2004 (UTC)

• Seconded: just as WP isn't paper it isn't M$ either ... When we write/edit an article we all (should?!) choose our words carefully for meaning, so we should on links. Actually "Edit this page" could also be reduced to just "Edit page" IMHO. --VampWillow 22:56, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)

OK, I've changed "My watchlist" to "watchlist]], I'm not sure there is enough support for the other two. Should we hold a vote? (p.s. sorry for the delay, I was on a wikivacation). Dori | Talk 15:31, Jun 28, 2004 (UTC)

I'm using standard (damn me) but I foresee getting confused if I'm at another user's page and want to see his contributions. Also, I think it's more newbie friendly, and I like the view that WP tailor for the newbie rather than the regular attendee. --bodnotbod 00:03, Jun 11, 2004 (UTC)

I don't like this as it is now. I have "My talk, Preferences, Watchlist, My contributions"—it seems a little inconsistent. —Lady Lysiŋe Ikiŋsile | Talk 17:35, 2004 Jun 28 (UTC)

Please keep the "my", it is important to highlight functionality that is specific to the logged in user.--Eloquence*

Most of those who commented here disagree. It's pretty obvious that those links apply to only the logged in user IMO, perhaps the design can better reflect that, but I really hate this trend MS has started. Dori | Talk 23:53, Jun 28, 2004 (UTC)

I don't think it's obvious at all, even I had to adjust between "My contributions" and "User contributions" when the new skin went live, for example, and many people have asked in the past if it is possible to view other people's watchlist, so that concept is also non-obvious. Some people are guided by the user icon, but more text-centric people will rely on the actual text telling them what that function does, and "My watchlist" is simply more specific than just "Watchlist". It's not about being cute, it's about giving more information to the user to help them navigate our website. Long-time users are often the worst possible judges of usability; if you want to know if this is helpful, you have to do a usability study with first-timers and ask them if they have any idea what these links could mean.--Eloquence*

It's been said before, but all interfaces ('cept one :) have to be learned. Sticking My in front of everything doesn't do that. You still have to know what a watchlist is. And as soon as you learn that, you know that there is just one. Sure there has been talk about seeing others' watchlists, but that's such a big privacy concern that it won't happen. I wonder how many new users as you say have heard of the talk about accessing other people's watchlists. Dori | Talk 00:03, Jun 29, 2004 (UTC)

You still have to know what exactly a watchlist is, and you still have to know what a contributions list is, but the "my" is additional information - it gives you a more concrete, if still vague idea: The watchlist is something that I can compile, the contributions list apparently lists everything I've done here, etc. Your argument seems to be that since the "My" doesn't precisely explain what a watchlist is, it is unnecessary. But that is not its purpose.

To polemicize, why not just call it "list" and "contris"? After all, you have to click on it to figure out what it does anyway. ;-) I object to the characterization of the my as a purely "cutesy" thing. I should point out that I first introduced these labels during a restructuring of the sidebar of the Standard skin (I also came up with the idea of having a "My contributions" link in the first place). Having these prefixes aids in the logical separation of user-specific and user-nonspecific links. That is their only purpose, but I think they serve it reasonably well.--Eloquence*

Maybe initially that My helps, but later on the brain just skips it because it's the same as in all the other links up there (well, some of them, they should either all have My or even better none of them). That My just gets in the way, as the brain will work mostly on location, with the shape of the words helping it along the way. So yes, list and contris will work just as well, but they don't look as good. Dori | Talk 01:06, Jun 29, 2004 (UTC)

Unlock the templates

Every locked template must be unprotected. It is unwiki to keep these protected indefinitely. Many contain errors which cannot be changed. --[[User:Eequor|ηυωρ]] 18:23, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Even if a MediaWiki page is unprotected, it can still only be edited by sysops. From Title.php userCanEdit():

if ( NS_MEDIAWIKI == $this->mNamespace && !$wgUser->isSysop() ) { return false; }

It's annoying, but some of these are raw HTML instead of Wiki-text and it would be a major security hole if people could edit those. Goplat 16:28, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)