User talk:Huldra/Archive 1

NB, since English is not my main language: do feel free to improve it! Huldra 17:27, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

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Talk:Occupied Territories (Israeli)

Huldra --

Care to comment at the above? Thanks.

Marsden 17:47, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

POV forks

Marsden has created a POV fork of Occupation of the Palestinian territories, which Wikipedia simply doesn't allow. I agreed to allow it to stay as long as he didn't link to it, but he has repeatedly broken that agreement. If he wants to fix up articles, he should fix them up, not create personal versions on the same topic. And, by the way, I never saw you on the Talk: page before you reverted. Jayjg ^(talk) 00:46, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

I showed Marsden the Occupation of the Palestinian territories, he decided he didn't like it, so he created a new article that suited him better. Wikipedia doesn't permit two articles on the same topic from different POVs; if he wanted to improve the original article, he should have done so, rather than creating a new version. And it's rather inconsistent of you to insist that others need to use Talk: pages, but that you have no need to because you use "common sense" instead. And by the way, regarding this comment, [1], it would help if you actually knew the sequence of events before drawing conclusions. Marsden stated he was leaving Wikipedia, then "re-considered" and stated that he was sticking around so he could edit war with those he disagreed with:[2] He then immediately went to 5 articles he had never been to before, 3 to revert me, and two to argue on Talk: pages where I was in disputes with others. This was long before the events that you comment on, so maybe you should investigate a little further in the future before you laugh quite so hard in the future. Jayjg ^(talk) 01:51, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

If you looked through Marsden's contributions, you would have noted many, many direct references to me, including various insultes and accusations that I am professionally paid to edit Wikipedia. If you're not willing to actually research the subject, then I see no point in discussing it with you. Jayjg ^(talk) 03:52, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Huldra, you might also find that it is mainly Jayjg and his cronies who refer to Occupied Territories (Israeli) as a "POV fork" of the Occupation of the Palestinian territories article (which Jay failed to mention he did not like either). Cheers! Marsden 04:08, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

No personal attacks

Huldra, your comments about other editors are becoming offensive. Please review Wikipedia:No personal attacks. You've made only 126 edits, 76 to the encyclopedia, so it's pretty early in your Wikipedia career to be so judgmental. Also, please see Wikipedia:Assume good faith. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 03:58, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

A little help in the revert wars

Huldra, sorry to bother you, but my double shadows have been up to mischief tonight. Would you mind terribly reverting Occupied Territories (Israeli) and Territories under Israeli control to my last versions, as of 04:10, 28 September 2005 and 04:21, 28 September 2005 respectively? SlimVirgin having so helpfully pointed out your new-ness here, the way you revert is you go to the article itself -- you may get re-directed on the "Occupied Territories (Israeli)" article, in which case in the article you end up at there should be a link under the title that says "Redirected from ..." that will take you back to the original article -- then click on the "history" tab, click the link for the version you want to revert to (this will have the time and date as the link text), click on the "edit this page" tab there, then scroll down on the edit page and click the "Save Page" button (ignoring the warning that it isn't the latest version of the article). I'd appreciate it much.

Also, I've been trying to do a little research on that US Aid to Israel project: there was a year -- 1993, I think -- when the US gave Israel almost a hundred combat aircraft under the "Excess Military Articles" program. The US government used to have a very useful database that you could search to find out anything you wanted to know about it, but now they've apparently dumbed the database down. Anyway, this EMA program has kind of been a shady thing, since it doesn't have to show up specifically in government accounting, so it's on top of the $3 billion annually that Israel has regularly been getting. You can imagine the value of a hundred combat aircraft -- including a few F-16s, for example. Eventually I'll find the info again.

Cheers. Marsden 04:36, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Huldra, I hope you won't simply take revert instructions from another new editor. A few editors have agreed on the new title, and we're now trying to improve the article, despite Marsden's reverting. If you want to increase your edit count in a qualitative way, I invite you to join us. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 04:59, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Marsden, SlimVirgin: I was just writing that I was DEAD (its past 7 in the morning here-and I have not been to bed)..To Marsden: I´ve looked at the pages but I can hardly keep my eyes open, much less understand what the whole thing is about. And I really, really cannot edit something I do not understand! I´m sorry. (Hey, how awake are you at 7, without sleep?) To SlimVirgin: "increase your edit count in a qualitative way"...by becoming involved i reverting-wars?? Me not think so. The way I want to contribute to Wikipedia is outlined on my user-page + several other articles I would like to write. But if Wikipedia is worth the effort I have yet to decide: the jury is out. What I have seen of bias in the Middle East earea isn´t very pretty, IMO. I see a lot of people have quit Wikipedia due to what they call "the zionist lobby" -or similar things. Isn´t that a concern? Anyway, I´m writing this in a semi-concious state, now I´m definitely logging out, will not be back for 2 days (I have another life demanding my attention!) Regards, and goodnight (or rather: good morning) Huldra 05:24, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Your vote needed

Hey, Huldra. POV matter at [3]. Thanks.

Marsden 13:27, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

"Why they are ****"

Thanks for your thoughts, Huldra.

I hope you can appreciate that I did not put the words on my user page that you find so offensive casually. It may be that you have a different understanding of the facts than I do; it may be that you have a different understanding of what constitutes "evil." For my part, I would far prefer to offend an infinite number of people on Wikipedia, many of them completely innocent, than to stand idly by while the words by which people's rights and dignities are understood get rearranged; I think history bears out very clearly that the facts by which people's rights and dignities are understood invariably follow.

From your comments, I take it that you see "evil" as some distant and exotic, terrible thing, of which we should all be aware yet never expect actually to see. I cannot fully express to you how wrong and how dangerous I think this perspective is.

In any case, as you have noted of my presence at Wikipedia, you have a choice regarding my user page: if you don't like it, don't look. If you think less of me for being extreme, so be it. But as I noted before, I'm happy to indulge in any amount of extremism if doing so can help in even the smallest way to prevent something that even you might recognize as "real evil."

Marsden 13:48, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for your second round of thoughts, Huldra.

Again, it seems that our understandings either of the facts or of what constitutes "evil" are at odds. However "casually" you may think I use the term "evil," I hope you'll at least leave a slight breath of air for the possibility that maybe there are validities to my understandings that are missing in yours; I have no doubt but that the opposite is true.

I perhaps expect more than you do that people should have thick skin. If I were recklessly ambling into something that was just plain wrong -- something that has happened in my life more often than I wish were the case -- I would hope that anyone who witnessed my error-in-progress would condemn me in the strongest possible terms. And so I am doing for others what I would hope they would do for me.

You write that I have accomplished nothing positive with my extremist language, and I have read similar comments from a couple others here. I have to say, Huldra, that the opinion of someone who would change it out of spite isn't worth anything anyway. What is important, I think, is that matters that were fait accompli are now being debated, and this, in my opinion, is a step forward.

Marsden 01:13, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

White Paper of 1939

Hi - just added a comment to the White Paper talk page, thanks for pointing that out. I also added the link to Edward Said's page (that is where you would add the category link, check version history to see how I did it.) Thanks for your other comments too, I don't know what to make about the "homeland" versus "national home" thing, but it helps to stay accurate in citing sources on Wikipedia ;) Let me know if I could be of further help! Ramallite ^(talk) 03:17, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your note - I still haven't gotten a chance to go over the Balfour Declaration page (although I am a bit surprised that "Jewish Homeland" links there as opposed to "Land of Israel" or something else). I've been too busy trying to reason with an editor on another article, but I'll try to get to these soon. Thanks for the notice! Ramallite ^(talk) 18:49, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Guy Montag

I notice from Guy's "Talk" page that user klominius is now offering to look at pages Guy thinks need attention (ie act as a virtual sock puppet). While I think this is in the letter of the law wrt wikipedia articles it seems very contrary to the spirit of the whole endevou.

Can you add zionist terrorism to your watch page since they seem to be insistent on the insertion of a NPOV appology justifying the actions of Irgun in a way that is not mirrored for any other terrorist organisation.

Unbehagen 08:31, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Sabri Jiryis

Template:Arabic had been on that page and I removed it and added it to the talk. You added it again after I had removed it which is how it got there again. Arabic belongs on the discussion page so that people who know Arabic can find it by where the template is linked but since it's not talking about a problem, per se, with the article like NPOV tags it does not get added the the main article space. So, the reason it seems that I added to the discussion before you added it to the article is because you added it twice :) ... in any case that's just the practice for templates like Arabic, Move, etc. Any other questions feel free to ask. gren グレン 08:35, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Israeli Arab

Hi there

it looks to me, from some of your contributions I've seen around the place (and it's nice to see someone writing about Arab writers) that you might be able to help on this article, which is pretty inadequate and also in danger of becoming yet another POV battleground. Palmiro | Talk 16:05, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

I didn't want to start a new section at the bottom, so I'll reply to your post (on my talk page) here. Basically, I want to help clean up the article, but don't have any hard facts with me, so I can only rely on information found on the internet (which is frequently false). This is why I merely copyedited the article so far. I think CBS is a pretty good resource though, they are the ultimate authority for these statistics AFAIK. -- Ynhockey 07:21, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Was it you who was looking for something ...

... like this? Marsden 20:36, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Bogdanov Affair

Hello, I just stumbled onto the Bogdanov page, now I have used up my "3RR"s for today, all 3 revert were of highly POV stuff by editors who had 0 previous editing on WP. My question to you is: is it possible to ban editors who have less than a certain number of edits to edit a page? If it is, then that perhaps should apply here? Regards, and good luck! -Huldra 15:03, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Dear Huldra: Indeed, under the recent injunction passed by the Arbitration Committee, accounts which edit only the Bogdanov Affair can be blocked as external participants rather than Wikipedia editors. I was hesitant to do so, but, well.... I think in this case, you are right. I will ban those users who were POV pushing; I greatly appreciate your assistance in this matter. Best regards, --NicholasTurnbull | (talk) (e-mail) (cabal) 15:09, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

hi Huldra, i just want to say "thank you" from the only long-term "regular" wikipedia editor who is banned from editing the Bogdanov page. i too, was trying to hold back a flood of vandalism (designed to remove unflattering factual information) from the Bogdanov's, their sock-puppets, and their meat-puppets. be careful that you don't fight off this vandalism too hard, it got me blocked twice (24 hours each) and eventually banned from editing the article. i don't mind that so much now that the admins and arbcom seem to have figured out what i was up against. i would recommend that, as long as someone else is also reverting the Bogdanov vandalism, that you should stay withing the 3RR. good luck. r b-j 19:39, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

category for deletion

I think we are making progress on Israeli Arab, even if most of the new additions are horribly POV they contain kernels of useful information.

In the meantime, if you have the time, you might or might not like to take a glance at this, which in my view sets a ghastly precedent for accurate and NPOV discussion of a whole range of topics:

Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2005_October_13#Category:Irish_terrorists cheers, Palmiro | Talk 15:53, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Copy edit and changes

Huldra: I welcome your help with copy edit and making things consistenet but please do not delete things that don't fit your POV. It is a tough subject, with many aspects and twists and we should styrive to include a complete picture.

So if you avoid too many deletes I think we can progress. When there were paragrphes that did not make sense and you pointed that out I delteed them my self. However those i did not delete is because I think they should be there so let's discuss prior to deleting them. I am sorry if it is frustrating to you as it is to me but that is part of the colaborative process. Thanks for your help. Zeq 14:42, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

I think we should all take to heart Zeq's stricture against deleting things that go against our POV. I don't think you should let yourself be discouraged, and I agree that from a POV point of view there is much worse out there. At least this is blatant, honest to goodness POV that stands out a mile and is relatively unlikely to mislead anyone; that's a lot more than can be said for many other articles and aspects of the WP coverage of Israel/Palestine. Palmiro | Talk 17:11, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

POV battle

Israeli settlement. Marsden 05:11, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Good work on the Rashidi

Thanks for the work you're doing on the Rashidi. It is of true encyclopedia quality and very useful. (I'm reading Madawi Al-Rasheed's A History of Saudi Arabia right now and enjoying it.) Zora 08:20, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Huldra, that history of explorers is not very good, but it IS available through Questia (google for it). Questia costs about $15 a month, but it gives me access to thousands of books. It's not a complete library, it's not a good reading interface, but it is one way of working around lack of good library facilities. (I sometimes feel that I should be at the Library of Congress, or the Bodleian, or some such eminent place, in order to do proper research.) The physical copy of Doughty that you have -- is it the full version, with the introduction by Lawrence of Arabia, or is it the abridged version? I just spent way too much money on a pre-1923 full version so that I can put it through Distributed Proofreaders (google for it). If you have pre-1923 copies of the other explorers, I strongly strongly urge you to scan the books and put them through Distributed Proofreaders so that the books will be accessible to ALL scholars, as free e-books. If you want to learn more, you can email me at lofstrom"at"lava.net, and I'll explain further. In fact, I'm such a zealot that I'll explain further and further and further <g>,

As to the RfA -- I'd really rather not participate if I haven't personally interacted with the editor in question. I wouldn't feel competent to judge. But thanks for thinking of me. Zora 01:50, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Got your email, replied. Zealotry abounds. Zora 05:02, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Books wanted:

Lane's Manners and Morals of the Modern Egyptians

The Complete Shahnama, translated by the Warners. Only complete translation in English.

Aurel Stein, the expedition to Central Asia, dunno title, nine volumes -- they're up as images at a Japanese site, but I can't get them to send me the piccies for processing. I could just raid (download) the images, but I'm not sure I want to do that for nine huge volumes.

Lots of Victorian authors, but I'd have to check which novels have been done and which haven't. I'm working on Susan Warner and someone else is doing Hesba Stretton. We could use more Mrs. Wood, Mrs. Braddon, Letitia Landon, etc. The second-tier authors.

The reason that they generally have to be pre-1923 (or is it up to 1924 now?) is that this is usually the only way to be sure sure sure that DP doesn't run into any compilation copyrights. Frex, there's a Dover edition of Lane, and it's even a facsimile (which would ordinarily not be covered by copyright), but the introduction says that misspellings have been corrected. That's editorial intervention, that's copyrighted, so we can ONLY use an unedited version. The drill is that we make jpegs of the front pages of the books and email them to DP, which will give a clearance if they are OK to scan and aren't already in the queue to be done.

Sounds like you have a good edition of Doughty. I can see you're a bibliophile, alrighty. Zora 04:43, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Books!

Oh thank you Huldra. That is a lot of work. I haven't even clicked the link yet (I'm working on an article on the Islamic conquest of Iran).

The Aurel Stein books you have in your home town would be a great start IF you could get them approved and scan them. And the Letitia Landon -- that WOULD be a coup!

First step is getting a flatbed scanner. I have an Epson Perfection. They have very good ratings for mechanical durability, but dealing with the software is something else. When I upgraded from Win98 to WinXP, it took me weeks and lots of frantic posts on various newsgroups and forums to figure out exactly how to upgrade the scanner software. But if you're buying new, that may not be a problem.

Second step is getting OCR software. People at DP mostly use Abbyy Finereader, which costs about $150. Abbyy has a very useful setting which allows you to run the scanner on automatic. You set a time delay just long enough for you to pick the book up, turn the page, and plop the book down again. Leave the lid of the scanner open and turn your head way when the light flashes. You can do a 300 page book in a couple of hours once you get into the swing of it.

Ah, but first -- before you scan, check to make sure that no one else is working on the book and that there will be no copyright problems. Make JPEGS of the front page, the back of the front page, and anything else that will help establish date, publisher, all that useful stuff. Then follow the steps at this URL [4] to upload the JPEGs and get permission to scan. That will usually come in a few days.

When you've got the permission, then you can scan and upload the project. The folks at DP are incredibly bright and helpful and nice. It's very different from Wikipedia. Very few nuts. Go on the forums to ask for help, or email me. I think there might be a Norwegian team (I know we've done a few Norwegian books) but I can't find it.

I hope this doesn't scare you off. It's a great project, it works, we've done almost 8,000 books now, and if you're feeling down, proofing just a few pages will often cheer you up. Doing something USEFUL.

Actually, even if you don't have the money or the time to do this, just cheerleading for you renews my determination to scan the dozens of books I have waiting. Thanks. Zora 23:18, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Huldra, you do not have to do any proofreading or copyediting to become a content provider. You can just upload the scans to DP and everyone else will take care of everything.

We run a web-based proofreading program. Each proofreader, or formatter, picks a book to work on and can do as little as one page before stopping or switching to another book. When you request a page, what you will see is the scanned image and the OCRed text next to it. You correct the OCR to match the image. That's all. We run books through four rounds -- two of proofreading, to catch OCR errors, and two of formatting, to turn them into proper ebooks. Then the post-processor combines all the separate page files, checks them for consistency, and posts the book to the Gutenberg library.

People tend to specialize in one part of the process. If you like being a content provider, that's all you have to do. It is often useful if the content provider is ALSO the project manager and the post-processor, so that the paper copy of the book is available if there are any problems with the images. But this is not at all necessary or required.

I'd suggest that you join DP, or DP-EU, proof a few pages, and get a feel for the whole process.

You may also want to look at what's already available as ebooks. Frex, you can get Burckhardt (an Arabian traveler whom you may not have read) free as an ebook. It is a pain to read for hours on a computer if you don't have to. People use tablet computers or PDAs or specialized ebook readers for ebooks. I use an old black-and-white Sony Clie PDA.

You can look for ebooks at [5] or go to blackmask.com and look for pleasure reading. All of it free! Doesn't take up any space! Doesn't have to be dusted! You can carry it in your purse and read at odd moments, waiting in line, etc.

Phew, I really am a zealot. Hope I haven't put you off. Looking forward to reading Palgrave and Stein. Zora 01:28, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Reply from Saxet

SlimVirgin is not only very smart, she's also fast. ;-) Yeah, being on the same side as Zeq feels like you're on a date with one of the Bush twins. Or at least I think the feeling would be similar. I've noticed various strategies/methods being used here on WP, and right now I feel that it would take a lot to surprise me. Hela projektet är aningen tvivelaktigt. I've seen your comments and edits though, and if you say Ramallite is ok, I'll trust you. Which means the blame will fall entirely on you when it turns out that he is in fact the uncle of Donald Rumsfeld's nephew. :-) Cheers. --saxet 01:08, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

hi Huldra, could you ...

... spend another of today's allocation of reverts on Bogdanov Affair? sorry to bother you but it looks like Igor has slipped another in when no one was watching. Thanks for reading this, in any case. r b-j 00:54, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

answer to your question

There are 3 answers to your question:

1.)wikimarkup works in edit summeries 2.)become an andmin and use the rollback button 3.)see the last answer to Wikipedia:Help_desk#How_to_leave_edit_summaries_for_reverts.

I hope that helps Geni 14:05, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

actually, I wasn't being serious

it was just that you had made a typo: where you clearly meant to say that you had made inappropriate elements "invisible" (can't be seen) you said you had made them "invincible" (can't be defeated) and when I noticed it it tickled my fancy... Palmiro | Talk 14:18, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I think that would worry anybody, although he may have taken comfort from the fact that you weren't (I assume) actually related to him! Palmiro | Talk 15:01, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I'm from Ireland. Did your ancestors abduct some Irish virgins back in the good old days ;)?Palmiro | Talk

Actually, some of my forebears were sailors as well, though I don't know if any of them got to Scandinavia either. Yes, Beit Jabri is still going strong, my personal favourite is the kishke, though it's getting into the season for eating fatte as well (have you ever spent a winter here? I've never thought of Syria as a warm country since). Don't know about the internet cafe by Merje, there are loads of them around now, all over the city. Where did you live, Bab Touma? As for the world's worst red wine, if you mean Nectar, yes, they still make it, it still has the unique bouquet of elderly cheese. And to make matters worse, you can't get Kefraya any more, since cross-border traffic is slightly more, let's say, complicated in the last few months, or so it appears. However, Rayyan Araq will solve all problems if applied in suitable quantities. Are you thinking of coming back any time? Palmiro | Talk 18:47, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks

I wanted to thank you for supporting my RfA and for keeping tally and helping out, I greatly appreciate it! Ramallite ^(talk) 03:57, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

I do have the Palgrave -- don't scan it!

I had completely forgotten that I had ordered an expensive 1908 edition of Palgrave from a British bookstore. It arrived. I will scan it, so you don't have to do so.

ABEbooks is just too tempting, like online crack. Zora 20:53, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Israeli Arab - again

I've added a lot of information, primarily historical, to the article in order to fill some of the glaring gaps. This includes some coverage of the land issue but nothing like enough. Do you think you might be able to try and add to it? Zeq seems to be somewhat subdued, so now might be the time! Palmiro | [[User talk:Palmiro|Talk]] 00:45, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

You are correct

Sorry, you are correct, I should have posted to your talk page as well. Regards, Jayjg ^(talk) 21:50, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Your query

Hi Huldra, regarding your query about the IP address/Marsden, that IP address is Marsden's, and so you ought to look at Marsden's contributions, not only the IPs, to see evidence of his harassment of, and personal attacks on, Jayjg (indeed, he stated clearly it was why he was at Wikipedia), and several others. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 09:36, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

What is this trying to say and is not already said elsewhere in the article ?

"The Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982 and the outbreak of the first Palestinian Intifada in the Israeli-occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip were defining moments for it, helping form the identity many (but by no means all) of its members adopt as being part of the Palestinian people yet part of the Israeli state.The political face of the Israeli Arab community has continued to change"

Leninist greetings

So who's Wikistalking who at the moment ;) ? I suddenly see Huldra's name all over my watchlist...

Regarding the kid in Beirut, I don't know off the top of my head. It sounds like the sort of thing that might be subject to duty, but I don't really know. I have to phone somebody in Beirut on Monday, and if I remember I'll ask her if she knows. Really busy now, moving house and snowed under with work, and no time and less patience for Wikipedia. Palmiro | Talk 14:50, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Well, in any case, I'm hardly going to object to being followed around by glamorous Scandinavian women. Actually, once in real life I was called a "tankie", which is apparently a Trotskyist term of abuse for Stalinists (think Prague 1968...), so it's been worse! Actually Zeq doesn't particularly bother me, though he certainly does put me off editing, but this and this is a bit hard to take.

Incidentally, I count this as my ninth house move since the 23rd of April this year (it's a long story, or several long stories, to do with Syrian workers coming back from Lebanon, French women being untrustworthy, jobs in Beirut, the ramifications of the Iraq war on the Damascus property market, and the scumbaggish nature of Damascus estate agents...). Palmiro | Talk 15:27, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

I have just acquired some Lebanese red wine. Have a (virtual) glass on me! Palmiro | Talk 16:01, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Forgot to ring the woman today, but will try tomorrow and hopefully reember your young friend. Palmiro | Talk 17:05, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Requests for adminship

Thanks for the note about Ramallite's admin vote. Unfortunately I was away from Wikipedia at the time and was not able to participate, but I'm certainly happy with the result! It's well deserved. Brian Tvedt 14:04, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Duplicate information

Thank you for reverting vandalism on [6]. The fact is that you also restored a whole bunch of duplicate information which was previously removed. The history listing is somewhat misleading in this case. Please display the two vesions side by side and you'll see that almost all the article's content IS duplicated! --Smiley77 09:19, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Please do not restore deleted personal attacks

Marsden's comment was rightly removed as a personal attack. Please do not restore it, it's disruptive. FeloniousMonk 08:09, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

No personal attakcs

I left a comment for you here [7], Slrubenstein | Talk 19:26, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Article for deletion vote

Thought you might be interested in this: [8] Marsden 17:38, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

testing

Personal attacks against M:

[9] and: [10]..."rewarded" with 15 min. block..thanks to intervention from SV. It has also been claimed that the user (J.McW) is a sockpuppet [11] ..but that has never been checked (to my knowledge).

Wikistalking? [12]

Did he really say that? The statement: "I've decided that I'll occasionally participate in Wikipedia, but only for the purpose of countering the Hasbara Mafia. At least for as long as I consider their POV-pushing to be a major problem here" : [13]

becomes: "[he]...has pretty much stated that his only purpose for staying on Wikipedia these days is to revert me, which is inappropriate behaviour for an editor. [14] (JMc)

.....editiors "fertilizing the ground": ("out of order"...) [15] Involving others: [16]

the nadir: Talk:Israeli-occupied territories: [17] [18]

"harvest" time: [19]

.....Pos. view ..by editors with other points of view...............: ..he was wished welcome on 22 Aug by an editor who had "noticed high quality of your contributions". [20] "I'm impressed, nice work..." [21]

Back?

Are you back? Palmiro | Talk 16:55, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Chateau Musar, hah? You're treating yourself well! I certainly noticed that you were gone, and I hope you'll hang around this time. Look at it this way, there has been a considerable improvement in treatment of the Middle East on Wikipedia even while I've been active: the articles on Palestinian territories, 1948 Arab-Israeli War and Palestinian exodus have been improved significantly, we actually have an article entitled Israeli-occupied territories, and coverage of Syria and Lebanon is improving slowly but surely. Someone else who has a strong understanding of the region is always badly needed. In particular, Israeli Arab is still a mess, for obvious reasons, and I'm not forgetting that you had all sorts of plans to improve it, I seem to recall you talking about Sabri Jiryis inter alia.

Anyway, good to see you back and I hope you stick around. Palmiro | Talk 18:01, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Sent you a mail. Palmiro | Talk 22:11, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

A little dissent and discontent

From the Wikipedia Review:

1. http://wikipediareview.proboards78.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1138416325 Guide to becoming an administrator on Wikipedia]
2. http://wikipediareview.proboards78.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1136740522 The Wikipedia inner circle]

Nice pic: Libertarian and intellectual giant Jimbo with a couple of Bomis babes on a yacht somewhere.

Good reading: Wikiwatch by librarian Matthew White and User:Lir’s essay ’’A Criticism of the Wikipedia’’. Hang in there. 64.34.193.106 11:56, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Arbcom etc

Well, I have made no edits on the 48 War article. Not one. I am still trying to find the time (and overcome my deep distaste for these rows) to make a statement on the thing, but as I have to go to Beirut tomorrow and won't be back til Saturday, it won;t be for a while.

Got a taxi this morning, and the taxi-driver (clearly a fairly religious Muslim) launched into a discourse on religious tolerance in Syria, how there was no distinction between Christians and Muslims, and anyone trying to sow such distinctions would be quickly dealt with. I quite appreciated it, given the times that are in it... I actually saw signs up on a couple of shops saying "So sorry, but we do not accept the Danish patrons". As one of my teachers said, vive Huntingdon... (incidentally, Huntngdon's acolytes on this site seem to be ever more active, take a look at Dhimmi or Bat Ye'or to see what I mean, not to mention Eurabia: The Euro-Arab Axis which treats the ravings of the latter as if they were descriptions of matters of fact... Palmiro | Talk 11:09, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Wow. That is spectacular apologetics. Obviously NPOV applies in dramatically different ways in different areas. Perhaps you are right that there is not much point continuing with this lark. Anyway, it appears Irish people are still personae gratae thanks to our great anti-imperialist struggle, praise be to God. OK, better head to the taxi station. All the best, Palmiro | Talk 11:40, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Back from Beirut, worn out and pissed off for reasons that have nothing to do with Wikipedia... anyway, have made a contribution to the arbcom thingie, on the main page, evidence and workshop pages. Palmiro | Talk 15:30, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Go ahead

By all means.. go ahead and place it on your user/talk page. It's alright if you hadn't got used to the templates yet. You know where to reach me if you need help. :-D SWD316 ^{talk to me} 23:59, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Mv from user-page

I need some help with editing: the details are at Talk:Rulers of Pate. Basically: I need some help inserting some new inf. into an article (Rulers of Pate) which has a format that I simply do not understand. Thank you for your attention. Huldra 00:07, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi! I checked out the pages and it looks like all you need to do is follow the pattern for the chart. When I am editing someone else's chart or table, I look at the other rows as examples. However, since it's just a list of the rulers and not their actions, you should only include the names and terms of the rulers, and create brief new articles, called stubs with the more detailed info. Is that enough help for you? Jimbo (not THE Jimbo) 02:27, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, I added in your changes, but not the "Mfalume" that most of the other rulers had at the end of their names. You seem to be more of an expert than I, so have at it. Don't forget about making stubs for those two rulers! Also, I changed your little dot line to a horizontal rule for simplicity's sake. Jimbo (not THE Jimbo) 02:46, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

---

You are most welcome

Spring Bloom is in full. last weekend we went to the beach but water is a bit too cold. Within weeks we will be able to sweam in the sea again. Zeq 08:35, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Dahab: Brings out such good memories.

Nurve ends: There are treatments in biofeedback that improve blood circulation. Look up a syndrom called Raynaud's phenomenon or Raynaud's syndrom ( I will not get into the diffrences) but in any case the non medication treatment for such a problem is something you should look up. This is not a mediacl advice just a suggestion of issues you should look up and consult your physician. Wikipedia articles on the subject are poor but I don't have the time to edit them. Zeq 09:29, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

a bit better Raynaud's disease. Again I suggesting you look up the non-mediaction, non-surgical treatment for that problem. It is not what you desribe but the treatment may be helpfull. Zeq 09:32, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

look for a special type of biofeedabck that is used for Raynauds. Also any technique such as mediataion / breathing that affects the simpatetic nurve system and open up blood vessels in the extrmities should be helpfull. Zeq 14:13, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Hasan Salama & Ali Hassan Salameh

Thanks for your note Huldra. I've found that Hasan Salama is Hassan Salameh and the father of Ali Hassan Salameh. I've updated both pages and have added some images. Best, --Ian Pitchford 18:36, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Terror

Huldra,

I will not go into lengthy debate on this but it is simple:

"Terrorism" is any action designed to harm or to target civilian population.

It does not matter who does it or what his cause was.

If you father targeted civilians he is a terrorist. If you father targeted occupation forces he is a freedom fighter.

Hope it is clear. Zeq 09:44, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

PS, a resitance fighter, bombing a Geramn arms truck and in the process destroying a pollish civilian village is still a freedom fighter. The issue is who was the inteneded target.

Huldra,

Nothing in life is "black and white" there are shades of gray. But there are things that are simple: The presence of civilians is not a "sheild". See Geneva conventions. Military comander must take all steps to avoid/minimize civilians from being harmed. But if a military target is hiding inside a passanger ferry or inside a densly poulated Gaza building and ther is no other way to destroy the military target. well according to laws of war it is not a war crime as long as the target was a military one. I satnd by the definition of terror. Zeq 10:37, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Huldra,

Much of what Zarkawii does can be clasified as Gurrelia war fare not as terror but some is clearly terror. The Nazis called gurrila = terror , but we don't use them as a yard stick. Zeq 13:35, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Informats, spys, undercover agents, anyone who does not ware uniform but is taking part in military activity or directly helping the military effort those are all a valid target according to Geneva convention. Zeq 14:25, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Lies about intended targets

In the 1970 Samir Kuntar attacked a family in Naharia and also killed a policemen that tried to stop him.

This is described by Hizbulla web site as "attack on a military base in which one soldier was killed"

The claim that suicide bombers target soldeirs is a lie. Resturants, Hotels are places that families are in.

Market, buses are places where the poor, elderly usually buy or travel.

On occuation, there are buses (civilian buses) that carry soldiers. The Geneva convention is clearabout that as well:

Any soldier who is not on active duty, even traveling to or from his base to start or after his duty is considered a protected person (civilian). Zeq 11:41, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

You are right it was a stupid headline. It is a lie that I heared repeated so many times from the same direction that i was angry. I have seen what suicide bombings of civilians look like and I later heared the descriptionof how it was a military target because there was one soldier on the bus or how mothers of soldiers are also military target - There is even a fatwa saying all jews are military targets. Zeq 14:23, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

why not ?

http://www.ummah.net/forum/showthread.php?t=43167

Palgrave

No, I haven't finished reading Palgrave. I got a third of the way through and stalled out. I think I have attention deficit disorder. Right now I am cutting out some brocade for pillows, and alternating that with checking Wikipedia, reading a New York Times article, and reading a book on the political situation in Iran, online. Not to mention interspersing household duties. Not to mention the stack of half-read books by my bed. And half-sewn projects. And .... AAARGH! Well, at least I'm not bored.

Yes, I have the 1908 edition. Yes, it has the map. Perhaps I should just scan it and upload it to Wikipedia. It's a 1908 book, so there would be no copyright problems. I'll let you know when it's done.

I'm glad you reminded me of the Palgrave. It's well-written and an enjoyable read. Also a useful antidote to Saudi propaganda. Zora 22:25, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I haven't read the Palgrave article. Will check. As for the spelling in the Jedda(h) article -- that's a Salafi imposing Salafi spelling. Their "thing" is exact transliteration from the Arabic, which, as we know, is the language of God. So, they put h's on the ends of words, and they always double a vowel if it's a long vowel, instead of using a macron. Of course, this is completely nuts if it's a reference to a published work which uses non-Salafi spelling. Zora 00:23, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, that only took me an hour and a half :/ Article is rewritten and the map is uploaded, in a very large high-quality jpeg that you may download and print out and enjoy. There's a bit of a wobbly break where I had to merge two scans (my Photoshop skills are still minimal) but I think the map is still usable. Zora 02:11, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Machsom Watch

Is there any reason why you want to keep The Irish Times quote in the article? Sort of a friendly request?:)) On the article's talk page, I have explained the reasons why this quote cannot be included in its current form. Cheers, Pecher ^Talk 16:02, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Huldra, that's pretty much what I'm saying. The first part of the sentence from The Irish Times is a response to the charge that the IDF does not hear what Machsom Watch says; the second part is a statement that the IDF devotes attention to the sensitivity of soldiers, i.e. that the IDF is not as bad as Machsom Watch says it is. The root cause of the dispute is ambiguous writing of the journalist in the first hand: the original sentence implies connection without establishing one. It would be much clearer if the sentence read something like: "Responding to Machsom Watch's charges that its reports pass unnoticed by the IDF, the army says that it listens to Machsom Watch. In addition, the IDF holds training to ensure respectful behaviour by soldiers." Best, Pecher ^Talk 21:56, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

You're right and that's th whole point: we need not transport the source's ambiguity to the Wikipedia, which is supposed to be clear and unambiguous. Pecher ^Talk 22:26, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Reverting

Please stop the mindless reverting. There's no support for your position at Israeli-occupied territories, so the reverting is simply disruptive. As for Ben Dunkelman, the writing has to be in correct English, we're not allowed to simply plagiarize phrases from the internet, and we have to be sure of the sources we're using. Please discuss these issues on talk rather than reverting to versions that contain errors. Many thanks, SlimVirgin ^(talk) 09:01, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Stop quoting my messages to you back word for word. It's childish. As for your plagiarism, I've put an example of it on the talk page. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 00:40, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I have no idea what you're talking about. You called the plagiarism policy a "new-found policy." I pointed out that you know it's not new, because I've asked you before not to use material word-for-word without attribution. You denied you had done this. So I gave you diffs. Now you're leaving me messages using exactly the same words that I've used, which is what you do in articles. Please understand that none of this inspires confidence in your editing, and dealing with it is time-consuming, for you too. Please start editing in accordance with the policies: WP:NOR, WP:V, WP:NPOV, WP:RS, WP:CITE. Use good sources and stick very closely to what they say with attribution. Don't add your own spin or your own flowery language, don't copy other people's prose, give full citations, and when someone copy edits your English, please don't revert. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 01:48, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Mate, take some advice. When you use someone else's words, attribute them. If you don't, you're going to get your arse kicked out of this encyclopaedia and not one tear shed for you. If someone points out similarities between your writing and someone else's, but they are misguided, here's a further piece of advice: say thank you, use the source as attribution and move on without making a fight out of it. And please try to treat SlimVirgin decently. She might differ in her opinions from you but we are all friends here. Grace Note 02:00, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

<copied from SlimVirgins talkpage:>

So, I repeat my question: did you or didn´t you think that I had added the words "deeply attached to his Jewish roots"? It should be a very easy question to answer. And I´m sorry, but it is not possible to ask this question without quoting you! As for the al-Hamad story, I will reply on Dunkelmans talk-page, (as it was raised there) about my "plagiarism". The facts remain: I had liftet nothing from the internet to the Ben Dunkelman article. (That other editors had done so before me is hardly my fault.) And everything I added to the article was sourced in the book I gave references to. That I might not have given references in the right format inside the article: ah, well: that is a charge which is probably true. But I did give a reference at the end of the article to the book I used. Regards, Huldra 02:27, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Huldra, do not ever again change another editor's signature. As for your plagiarism, I gave a very clear example of you lifting prose from a NYT article and not attributing it. Enough already. You're well of order now. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 04:21, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

<copied from SlimVirgins talkpage:>

sorry about that

I did not understand you comment on my talk-page at all, but then I saw your edit here and understood. I can assure you that I ofcourse did not wanted to cut out your signature from your own comment! Why on earth should I want do such a thing? My mistake, completely, and I am sorry for that. I have no idea as to how it happened: I was just trying to copy the time from those messages, and your signature must have been cut by accidente.

As for my alleged plagiarism, you gave an example of me lifting 3 words(!) 6 months(!) ago from a NYT article and only giving the ref. on the talk-page of the article(!). Regards, Huldra 04:39, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I said enough. Stop posting to my talk page. You've been asked several times to clarify your source material on Ben Dunkelman. Just clarify it on that talk page (not mine) and stop reverting copy edits, then there will be no further problem. I've had enough of your snide remarks. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 04:44, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

testing

ok, I´m testing out new material here: newstuff

Newstuff

I believe that all you need to do is edit User:Huldra\Newstuff to create the article in your name space to allow you to work on it. Vegaswikian 00:52, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

The talk page should be moved now. Vegaswikian 01:04, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Re: Plagiarism

I've said all I have to say about the matter. If you choose not to heed my well-intentioned advice, it's your lookout. Grace Note 06:48, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Intersting material

It is intersting. I have seen it before.

All thes attempts to judge in 2006 terms events tha occured in 1948 will not get very far.

Why are you so bothered by that and don't care as much about what is going on in Africa in 2006 ?

Zeq 19:51, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Ben Dunkelman

What on earth are you talking about? [22] I've never reverted you on Ben Dunkelman; I've only made one tiny edit there, to fix a link. I'd appreciate it if you would avoid making false accusations, and am going to insist that you refrain from violations of WP:CIVIL (e.g. "our twins"). Jayjg ^(talk) 19:51, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Huldra, thanks for your apology, but why are you telling me all about SlimVirgin's actions? Jayjg ^(talk) 02:45, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Please reconsdier your vote

at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Israeli_Arab_transference_from_Israel

look up Kahnae and Kach party that is the right place to discuss the transfer idea. Zeq 19:59, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Thank you!

Thanks very much for the barnstar, which I have now added to my user page. Got to go now, I have wasted far too much time on Wikipedia already today and have work to do... Palmiro | Talk 16:03, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Re:IDF

Yes, Hativa Sheva = 7th Brigade. Please don't move the article 7th Brigade though, but instead make a redirect if you will. Sheva' Brigade would be a name contranry to the MOS's guidelines.

As for the library thing, I'm not sure I have the time nowadays (as you probably know, I'm in the IDF) because Petah Tikva libraries are very poor and the closest decent one is in Tel Aviv. Not sure I want to go there to check out some small facts, although maybe another Israeli user will. Try User:MathKnight.

-- Y Ynhockey ^(Talk) Y 10:50, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

article

You might be interested to contribute here User:KimvdLinde/Israeli_apartheid, I am not yet done, and I need to find several of the books in the library, but I think a good article dealing with thye opinion of scholars is needed. -- Kim van der Linde ^{at venus} 06:41, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

No sweat, the books are important as well. -- Kim van der Linde ^{at venus} 07:50, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

mediation

Huldra,

This is simpe, disambiguation. no need for you to edit war over it. do you want us to find a mediator that would help us through this ? Zeq 06:41, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

yes. The solution can be a simple disambiguation page. Please file for mediation or look for an informal mediator. Best, Zeq 07:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Deir yassin

[23]

voted

Tnx for alerting me. Zeq 20:37, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Back? I don't think so!

Actually, I couldn't help taking a look to see how Wikipedia was handling the current attack on Lebanon, and was just as appalled as I had expected to be (a whole paragraph in the Lebanon article dedicated to this one affair, coverage in a special article that gives no notice to Lebanese perspectives), but I also came across the Deir Yassin outrage. I must admit I was surprised by the shamelessness of it. All the more reason not to bother with the whole enterprise, I suppose! Palmiro | Talk 13:54, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Libya

Please feel free to evaluate the Libya article which has become a 'Featured Article Candidate' and write you support or opposition on Wikipedia:Featured article candidates. Hopefully Libya will become only the second African country to be featured on Wikipedia. Thanks --User:Jaw101ie 12:30, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

PalestineFacts

Hello , You added the Category Encyclopedia for this article. Palestine facts is NOT. Do you agree ? Trade2tradewell 20:37, 27 July 2006 (UTC)