Talk:Trump

Title

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was move per request as the primary topic. Will put The Donald in the hatnote.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 04:03, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

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I propose that this article be called Trump (disambiguation) and that the primary direct to "trump" be to trump cards in trick taking games such as Bridge. This is the most common and obvious use of the term. The title "Trump (card game)" is awkward as it is not refering to a game, it is a special card or assigned card suit used in certain card games.--Parsa (talk) 03:58, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, it's not only the most common use. It is also the earliest use of the term when it was first used in tarot card games.Smiloid (talk) 03:48, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree. --Doradus (talk) 14:09, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

I also agree. I think I have noticed this anomaly before, but for some reason didn't do anything about it. Hans Adler 19:41, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Two years of discussion with all four participants in favour seems to be enough for a bold move, but I can't do it because the target has a (formally) non-trivial history. So I am formally requesting this move. Hans Adler 23:45, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

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Trump → Trump (disambiguation) — Original and most common meaning is that in card games. Need to rename to make place for that. Hans Adler 23:45, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

• Comment. I think I oppose this on the basis that the card terminology and the Donald are about equally common. That seems to be a sound basis for a disambiguation page instead of a preferential landing. Ocaasi (talk) 01:21, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
  • A quick examination of the incoming links to the article shows otherwise. Most of them are for the plain meaning of the word. Can you find one that refers to the person? Is it even to reasonable to ask for "Trump" and expect to be directed to someone with that surname? Hans Adler 06:39, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
    • In the case of The Donald, yes, although it's not as clear cut as some others. Powers ^T 12:43, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
      • Sounds like Americo-centric recentism to me. Hans Adler 12:56, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
        • To the extent that we try to direct users to the article they're most likely trying to read, I think that's unavoidable. Powers ^T 00:11, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
• Support, but put Donald Trump directly in the hatnote on the card game article. Powers ^T 02:31, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
• Support. The great majority of incoming links are intending "trump" in cards, only a few are intending Donald Trump or his company, and another few are intending other uses. Clearly Donald Trump is a popular topic and article, but I don't see a lot of indication that people are typing in just "Trump" looking for him.--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:23, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Incoming links aren't a good way to measure the usage of a surname, because the surname alone isn't the article's title. The President is clearly the primary topic for "Obama", but very few articles link directly to that redirect, for obvious reasons. That said, I agree with your conclusion. Powers ^T 14:20, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
• Support Nergaal (talk)
• Oppose because there are two separate articles about trump cards, so disambiguation is needed between them. 64.105.65.28 (talk) 04:15, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
  • I can't make much sense of this comment. Are you referring to trump (card game) and Major Arcana? As far as I know the latter are only ever referred to as "trumps" in a card game context, i.e. when tarot cards are used for their original purpose, making them a special case of trump (card game). Hans Adler 08:35, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
    • That is correct. The "Major Arcana" are the permanent trump suit in games played with the tarot deck. This probably ought to be mentioned at the trump (cards) article.--Cúchullain ^t/c 12:37, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
      • I think the following is good enough for the moment: "Trionfo was also the name of the original card game for which tarot cards were designed, and in it the tarot cards had the role of what are now called trumps; later card game rules were designed to use one of the ordinary suits as a replacement for the tarots when a tarot pack was not available." Of course we could clarify it as follows: "[...] and in it the tarot cards (known as major Arcana in occult Tarot [...]", but I am not sure that that's necessary. Hans Adler 14:01, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Trump which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 01:00, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Discussion is now at Talk:Trump (card games)#Requested move 9 November 2016. Dicklyon (talk) 06:22, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

People named Trump but not known as "Trump"

Among all the Trump family, Donald Trump is the only person known solely as "Trump". (For example, Ivanka is never called "Trump" -- usually "Ivanka" or "Ivanka Trump".)

Including the rest of the Trump clan is partial title matching, and covered by the link to Trump (surname), and thus shouldn't also be included individually here, so I'm removing them.--NapoliRoma (talk) 20:03, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

...well, someone is removing them.--NapoliRoma (talk) 20:04, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

I say it should be included now, he is the President now, so when people type in "Trump" in the search box, they're most DEFINITELY looking for Donald Trump. 173.68.25.111 (talk) 17:54, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Yes, Trump should redirect to Donald Trump. You used to be able to see visits at the bottom of the page. I can't believe that was removed. Anyway, compare visits of Donald Trump to Trump card games and it will be obvious. Steve.schlegel (talk) 18:20, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Two different topics. The conversation here was whether Ivanka, Ivana, Barron, Eric, and other relatives should be listed explicitly on this page. None of them are commonly known as the unmodified word "Trump", so they should not be on this page. Donald Trump is quite often known as "Trump", so he should be explicitly listed here.

The question of whether the article name "Trump" should be a redirect to the "Donald Trump" page would be another, separate conversation.--NapoliRoma (talk) 19:56, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Redirect to Donald Trump

I second:

"I say it should be included now, he is the President now, so when people type in "Trump" in the search box, they're most DEFINITELY looking for Donald Trump. 173.68.25.111 (talk) 17:54, 20 January 2017 (UTC)"

187.75.12.241 (talk) 22:32, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Comment: As mentioned above, the previous discussion on this, which resulted in Trump becoming the name of this disambiguation page rather than the page about playing cards, is at Talk:Trump (card games)#Requested move 9 November 2016.--NapoliRoma (talk) 01:19, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

Support as per nom. Olidog 12:01, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

Support. --Sunshineisles2 (talk) 16:10, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

Comment – If you want to make this proposal, please follow the guidelines at WP:Move request. — JFG ^talk 18:17, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

Comment - We should not second guess what readers are searching for, and this disambiguation page lists a number of possible results. The donald is but a further click away. -Roxy the dog. bark 18:48, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

• Support. This shows the page had nearly 26,000 page views following Election Day and 12,000 today, do you honestly believe they are looking for anything other than Donald Trump? MB298 (talk) 22:07, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 21 January 2017

Trump → Trump (disambiguation) – Per above, a proper move request was not started, I have corrected this.

• Strong Support As per WP:PTOPIC, no evidence they are looking for something other than Donald Trump, if they are looking for the First Lady, for example, they will just search "Melania Trump", that's why Obama does not point to a disambiguation page or redirect to Michelle Obama, for that matter. - CHAMPION ^{(talk) (contributions) (logs)} 22:24, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
• Support. One of the most blatantly obvious primary topics ever. Note: the proposal should say "to allow Trump to redirect to Donald Trump". --В²C ☎ 23:12, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose - Anyone could be looking for Trump (card games) or HMS Trump (P333) - Both notable subjects, Obama is irrelevant here because he was was always referred to as OBama, Donald on the other hand is always referred to as "Donald Trump". –Davey2010^Talk 23:15, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose again nothing has changed, see Clinton Carter Kennedy Bush Thatcher all surname or dab pages....and still no evidence of Donald Trump being called "Trump" in serious sources. In ictu oculi (talk) 23:23, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
  • No evidence? You did not check, these sources, for example, all call him "Trump". And the list goes on and on, so he is referred to as "Trump". Neither president is always referred to by either their full name or surname. Consider Obama, Fukui is a notable topic, whose name is unrelated to that of the president. - CHAMPION ^{(talk) (contributions) (logs)} 23:47, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

Support Absolutely needed because Trump is soon to be redirected time Donald Trump and this disambiguation page is needed. Otherwise, Trump will go to Donald Trump and this page will be blanked out. No! Samswik (talk) 00:53, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Support Trump to Donald, not Trump disambiguation. This doesn't mean you like or hate Donald. Obama was redirected to Barack in 2008. Only a few people were looking for Obama village, Japan. Samswik (talk) 00:51, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

@Samswik: You have placed your comment in the wrong place and made two separate comments, I have moved it. In future, new comments should always be placed at the bottom of discussions. - CHAMPION ^{(talk) (contributions) (logs)} 01:11, 22 January 2017 (UTC)