Talk:Glen Campbell

DIC Arrest

Can someone tell me why this article is missing the content in respect of Campbell's arrest in November 2003 on drunk driving and hit and run charges. According to Arizona cops, the 67-year-old performer was nabbed shortly after plowing his BMW into another auto at a Phoenix intersection. He left the accident scene, but was arrested at his nearby home, where cops smelled booze on his breath and noted that Campbell looked smashed. After he was booked into a Maricopa County lockup, Campbell kneed a sergeant in the thigh--for which the country star was hit with an aggravated assault on a police officer charge. Campbell posed for the bottom mug shot in July 2004 after checking into a Phoenix lockup to serve the first of ten nights in jail. The singer, now 68, pleaded guilty in May to extreme DUI and leaving the scene of an accident. Campbell was eight months later jailed for ten days for the incidents. Quasi judicial (talk) 23:23, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Here is a source for the above: [1] -- Winkelvi ● ✉ ✓ 16:30, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

The arrest is mentioned in the article. See the alcoholism and drug abuse section. (JitF (talk) 19:33, 9 August 2017 (UTC))

That's because I just re-added it. This was improperly removed in 2011. Kendall-K1 (talk) 00:53, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Illness and retirement section

His Alzheimer's diagnosis was in 2010, not early 2011. (JitF (talk) 19:35, 9 August 2017 (UTC))

Good catch. There are two sources cited for "early 2011". One is dead, the other says June 2011 but obviously has confused the diagnosis with the announcement. Most sources say six months prior to the June 2011 announcement, which would be December 2010. Kendall-K1 (talk) 01:25, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Sorry to drag down the worthy encyclopedia, yet again, to the gutter level of social media, but I found this interview with Alice Cooper, quite informative. Surprisingly, they seemed to have played a lot of golf together. Cocaine gets quite a mention, as does Christianity, as does Passover Seder. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:00, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

Golf's supposed to be a relaxing sport. But here he is after missing a short putt. --Light show (talk) 20:34, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

I wasn't going to mention this, but since you brought it up, we have a slight discrepancy on religion. In 1990 he was a member of a Christian church, yet in 2008 he had been an adherent of Messianic Judaism for two decades, or since 1988. I suppose it's possible to be both, and I haven't watched the interview. Is there anything in there about that? Kendall-K1 (talk) 21:33, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

You should watch, it's watchable. Hardly a WP:RS for religious beliefs, but strongly suggests (to me) that Campbell and his family were simply Christians. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:43, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

I will watch it. I've always found Alice Cooper surprisingly articulate and informative given his stage persona. Kendall-K1 (talk) 03:10, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

The source for that part is here, and the Messianic Judaism article seems to explain what it is. I think since Christians focus on the New Testament while Jews rely on the Old Testament, but both together are still The Bible, such crossover beliefs are more common nowadays. --Light show (talk) 23:47, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

Messianic Judaism is a branch of belief within Christianity, Kendall-K1. -- ψλ ● ✉ 03:23, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 August 2017

86.25.51.66 (talk) 09:05, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

'Speechmark' (") is missing at the beginning of "Gentle On My Mind". Please enter.

•  Done. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:10, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Bagpipes

Glen also played the bag pipes...see the 2001 Live with the South Dakota Orchestra. Glen played the pipes on Amazing Grace. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.235.161.1 (talk) 04:25, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

Intro: what's a 'hit'

The intro has ""Universal Soldier", his first hit from 1965", this song reached 45 on the US charts. His 1961 release "Turn around, look at me" reached 62. 45 v 62, neither is a major hit, so why not have his first chart success as "his first hit" Brunswicknic (talk) 13:07, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Death news

@Light show: I would support removing the material about legal action against Kim, and the Rolling Stone report on the final stages of disease. The first seems undue unless some sort of verdict or settlement has happened, and the second is uninteresting gossip. Kendall-K1 (talk) 14:41, 9 September 2017 (UTC) @Kendall-K1: I second that emotion. The legal action didn't result in anything and the second part seems to be added as counterbalance.Lumdeloo (talk) 19:41, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

His second wife was a beautician from Carlsbad

@Martinevans123: Okay fair enough, why is that irrelevant? Well we could add that his eldest daughter is a flight attendant, that his eldest son was a car salesman for a while, that his third wife didn't have a job etc. The article is about the musician Glen Campbell, what does the job that his second wife held for a few years before they got married add to his story? Even if's is true and a source can be found for it, doesn't mean it should be included. The personal life section is already quite big. I just thought let's remove the least relevant part of an already oversized section in this biography. Maybe you can tell me why the job of his second wife is so relevant? Thanks! Lumdeloo (talk) 08:44, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

@Martinevans123:, looking forward to your feedback on this issue. Thanks.Lumdeloo (talk) 14:41, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Hi Lumdeloo. You seem pretty keen to expunge this. I didn't say it was so relevant. I really don't think the jobs his children do, or have done, are necessarily relevant - and I certainly didn't suggest adding them. And I certainly don't advocate including any material can't be sourced unsourced. So the first job, I think, would be to find a source. Otherwise our discussion is a bit pointless. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:01, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

So I've now adjusted the wording to fit the existing source. Do you still have doubts as to its veracity? Martinevans123 (talk) 15:06, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

I've removed the cn tag. Everything there seems to be in the source. We say: "After divorcing Kirk, Campbell married Billie Nunley, an Albuquerque beautician, who gave birth to Kelli, Travis, and Kane." And the source says: "After divorcing Diane, Glen married Billie Nunley, an Albuquerque beautician who bore him Kelli, 21, Travis, 17, and Kane, 14." Kendall-K1 (talk) 16:27, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

So "an Albuquerque beautician" is not necessarily "a beautician from Albuquerque"? I must admit that's what I had read as the intended meaning in that source. So much for paraphrasing, eh? Martinevans123 (talk) 17:37, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Paraphrasing is fine as long as it doesn't change the meaning. Kendall-K1 (talk) 18:02, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Well at least it's one word shorter. And this way, it's correct. Lumdeloo (talk) 18:05, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

I suspect Billie Jean may also have been correct, but I can confirm that she's not my lover. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:13, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Only now do I see your point. She is actually almost always called Billie Jean Nunley, so I suggest we add that. Do we need to add an additional source just for her correct name? Lumdeloo (talk) 21:05, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Almost certainly. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:13, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Okay I will add it. Lumdeloo (talk) 08:12, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Alcoholism and drug addiction

@Martinevans123 Okay instead of reverting that edit... there are several issues with the current text. His drug and drinking problem started in the 70s. If it occured in the 80s then it's strange to follow that with a quote that says that in 1982 he had already quit. In fact he quit the heavy drinking in 1986, he quit cocaine in 1982/83. His drinking problem reoccurred in the early 2000s (perhaps related to his then emerging memory problems). After his DUI in 2003 he never drank again. My problem is: yes I could change all this, with all the required sources but, do we really have to spell this out. I would propose: keep it correct and short. Hence my edit that you reverted. My frustration is: every time people keep adding and adding details to this Personal Life section. I guess because people love that stuff. Then I can come in to fix the erroneous details when actually all I want to do is remove it again, because otherwise this section will eventually become longer than what should be the main part, namely about his career. Thanks for listening... :) Lumdeloo (talk) 09:16, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

As long as it's chronologically accurate and well-sourced, I personally don't have a problem with more detail. I would not expect a year-by-year account, of course. And I agree with your general desire to prevent that section looking like a lurid tabloid story. But I found it notable that he himself made that claim in 1982. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:31, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

It's a question of WP:WEIGHT. My opinion is that the fourth wife and Christianity don't belong in the Alcoholism section. I prefer Lumdeloo's version. I give far greater weight to people's actions than to what they say, and would leave out his 1982 statement. But this is very much a matter of opinion, and we may want to solicit more editor opinions if this becomes contentious. Kendall-K1 (talk) 13:19, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

I'm aware that the 21 years between 1982 and 2003 is a rather large gap. If other "milestones" in this particular journey deserve more WEIGHT, I'd have no objections to seeing things replaced. My feeling is that the marriage and the conversion gave some context to the 1982 announcement. Things obviously don't happen in isolation in real life, even if a level 3 topic heading in a Wikipedia article might suggest they do. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:28, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

If we have to have this in, I object strenuously to the wording "claiming that he had become a born-again Christian". See WP:CLAIM. Kendall-K1 (talk) 15:00, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

No, as I said, we don't have to. But no objections to that improvement at all. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:07, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

I agree with Kendall-K1, let's leave out the whole fourth wife and Christianity part. Especially because in 1982 he hadn't really quit cocaine and the booze, as his autobiography makes clear. Why use a quote that turned out to be incorrect. Just state he developed problems with alcohol and cocaine in the 70s. He quit doing them in the 80s with a well published relapse in 2003 with the DUI. Could you both agree with that? Lumdeloo (talk) 14:41, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

I've already removed the wife? I still think the conversion and the "incorrect announcement" are relevant. But I'm sure it's not significant enough to battle over. But that section still looks a bit sparse to me. I think it was quite an important aspect of his life, unfortunately. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:10, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

I probably would have left out the conversion and announcement myself, but I'm ok with the current wording: "Campbell had problems with alcoholism and cocaine addiction in the 1980s. In 1982 Campbell, saying that he had become a born again Christian, announced that he had given up drugs and drinking.[63] He was arrested in 2003 and pleaded guilty to drunk driving and leaving the scene of an accident. He spent 10 days in jail.[64]" Kendall-K1 (talk) 16:18, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

It seems someone else is not ok with the wording. Always good to discuss, isn't it. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:13, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

I still have a few reservations. First factually: his problems started in the 70s. His marriage with Sarah Davis has been described as based around cocaine for instance. Second, that quote which turned out to be incorrect. Third, the mentions of his DUI without saying it was a relapse, suggesting his alcohol problem continued from the 70s straight through 2003, which is not correct either. I tried to fix all three problems. See article. Lumdeloo (talk) 19:19, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

PS: Sorry. I was just going to post this on the talk page but got into an edit conflict with your message. I figured I would do my proposal right away so that you can see what I meant. Lumdeloo (talk) 19:23, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

How do you view the "incorrect announcement"? As an inconvenient mistake? Or as a classic symptom of an addict in denial? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:06, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Hard so say. I wish I could find the 1982 interview from which that statement was taken so I would know the context in which it was said. However, during those years Glen tried quitting the drinking and drugging multiple times, so it could be that at the moment he said that, he actually had quit doing them for a while. On the other hand, he could also have been an addict in denial like you say.Lumdeloo (talk) 20:54, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Now I'm confused. I thought Lumdeloo was the one who wanted to leave out the fourth wife. Kendall-K1 (talk) 20:27, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

You're right. After thinking it over, I figured that I mainly had a problem with the "incorrect announcement" suggesting he stopped drinking and drugs when he got married in 1982 or when he became a (born again) christian in 1981. However, that his wife eventually played a crucial role in Glen kicking his addictions is something that he has emphasized in both his autobiography and many interviews. So I decided to keep that part in as well, from the source that I used. I can understand your confusion though. Hope this clears things up. Lumdeloo (talk) 20:50, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

The problem with what you've done is that we have multiple sources giving different dates for his quitting drinking, and if you include one of them, you have to include them all. I would rather not have a long paragraph that says "Campbell says he quit in 1982, but the Picayune says he quit in 1981 and his ex-wife says he quit in 1987." Kendall-K1 (talk) 21:29, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Well not his ex-wife but I see what you mean. However, if I have to choose between an source that says he said that he was clean when he got married and on the other hand you have a autobiography that goes on and on how that wasn't true, that he was drunk at the wedding and continued to drink heavily through the first years of their marriage until he quit in 1987, I have no problem in saying that the latter source is probably the more reliable one. Lumdeloo (talk) 08:16, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

And I'd rather see the full rollercoaster. But hey, whatevs. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:37, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Full rollercoaster is more fun, I'll give you that. And would be better than just picking one source of queestionable reliability. Kendall-K1 (talk) 21:41, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

I have partially reverted. The cited source does not say anything about a relapse or Arizona. The old wording was much closer to what the cited source actually says. Kendall-K1 (talk) 20:36, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Fair enough, I will need to provide additional sourcing for the "relapse" statement. Lumdeloo (talk) 20:56, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

I was at a Glen Campbell concert in October 1989 and he was clearly drunk, so he definitely didn't stop drinking in the early 1980s. (BlokeEBlokeson (talk) 21:37, 8 October 2017 (UTC))

I have my doubts about the source that says he quit in 1987. I can't find anything on the web site about who owns this news source, who the editorial staff and policies are, or even where it's located. And the story is not a news story, it's more of a book review. I hesitate to use it as our only source for when he quit drinking. I would rather just leave out any date. Kendall-K1 (talk) 21:40, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

The only source that talks about it at length is his autobiography. Daily Press is a regular newspaper from Virginia, established in 1896. This is an article from 1994 when his autobiography was released. So yes, they apparently read the book carefully and picked out the correct year. Would adding the exact page number from his autobiography help? I could also live with a more general statement on that he quit in the 80s, which was my first propasal come to think of it.Lumdeloo (talk) 08:24, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

His autobiography might not be entirely truthful. (BlokeEBlokeson (talk) 14:15, 9 October 2017 (UTC))

Source for personal savior?

@Musdan77: I'm having trouble verifying "he accepted Christ as his personal savior at age fifteen." I see you've added a page number, 229. But when I look at that story, it's all on one page, with no numbers. In fact it's under 1000 words, so no way could there be 229 pages. Are we looking at the same source? "Glen Campbell Fesses Up In New Book" by DAVID NICHOLSON is what's in the citation. Kendall-K1 (talk) 00:50, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Well first, I don't know why you didn't just keep the discussion on my talk page (at least for now). Anyway, that source is an article talking about the book "Rhinestone Cowboy: An Autobiography". I guess I should have just changed the citation in the first place – which is what I've just done. --Musdan77 (talk) 01:28, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

The discussion on your talk page was about something else. I didn't even mention Glen Campbell there.

Your change left "stopped drinking and doing drugs in 1987" sourced to his autobiography. I think it's better to have an independent source for this, so I have restored the original source for this information. Kendall-K1 (talk) 01:36, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

How is it better (in this case) to use a secondary source than the original? It's just unnecessary to use another citation when one can be used for both. --Musdan77 (talk) 02:49, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

In my copy I don't see any about personal savior at 15 on page 229. Which chapter did you find that? Lumdeloo (talk) 08:25, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

https://books.google.com/books?id=HsONG3LyerQC&dq=Rhinestone+cowboy&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=personal+savior --Musdan77 (talk) 19:46, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

That quote is about the Reverend James Robison, not about Glen. Lumdeloo (talk) 20:36, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Might come in useful at James Robison (televangelist)? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:51, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

OK Lumdeloo, so where in the book does it talk about his conversion? I know it does. That section is very small, so when you remove something you should replace it with the pertinent information. --Musdan77 (talk) 22:27, 10 October 2017 (UTC)